Omicron anecdata?

[mommyoffive]

Our personalities may have changed thanks to the pandemic, study shows (wisn.com)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that the phrase “Covid is over” is misleading. Covid, the pandemic virus, is not over. It’s deadliness might vary depending on factors like vaccinations etc but it can still be deadly. And of course we’re finding out more about how debilitating it can be in the form of Long Covid. 
 

I have become more comfortable with people making their own decisions regarding it though as more people have had access to vaccinations, boosters etc. I don’t wish Covid on anyone and of course even those who are careful can still get it. But there is an aspect of “sow the wind, reap the whirlwind “ at play. People are responsible for the possible results of their choices. From the beginning I have said that there is an aspect of Russian Roulette to this but I am not much of a gambler. I will continue to play my hand (to mix gambling metaphors) cautiously with a mitigated social life. 

[Corraleno]

I haven't found mitigation measures to be particularly burdensome, so for me the risk of covid (particularly long covid) still outweighs any minor inconvenience. And I've found that some mitigation measures have other advantages that make them worthwhile even aside from covid. For example, what was originally a mitigation measure for me — getting to stores when they first open — is now a definite preference, because stores (and parking lots) are a lot less crowded and I can get in and out much faster. I don't mind masking, and I've appreciated not having even a cold in the last couple of years, so I'd likely continue to mask during flu season, in healthcare settings, and on planes even if covid disappeared tomorrow. Avoiding restaurants led to expanding my cooking skills and also forced me to get better about batch cooking, so now if I don't feel like cooking I just grab something from the freezer instead of going out.

Having said all that, my kids are adults, and I can see how mitigation measures would have a much bigger impact on families with young kids whose activities and social lives have been significantly curtailed. And I imagine that introversion/extroversion also plays a role in how burdensome people find various measures — for example, not being able to see people's faces has zero impact on me, that literally doesn't even register, but I understand that it really bothers some people.

[Terabith]

I mask when I go anywhere in public, except I have decided that most of the time, I am not going to mask in my preschool classroom.  Nobody else at the preschool is masking ever.  And I teach two year olds, and I do think that it is helpful, for speech and social development, for them to be able to see my face.  I have nine kids and a co teacher. I have decided that we are going to be a cohort.  I carry a mask in my pocket and pop it on if anyone seems to have symptoms.  And I got covid for the first time after a week in my classroom.  I may rethink and go back to masking when I feel more vulnerable to reinfection.  But I do think toddlers are more impacted than adults by lack of seeing faces.  I will get a booster probably in December, which will be three months post infection.  I figure that will give me another couple months of relative safety. I don’t find masking burdensome in most situations for myself, but I think the calculus is different for toddlers. 

[regentrude]

I am still masking in the classroom.  I see 400 in-person students each week, and they live in dorms. In the lecture hall, I may be able to keep a distance,  but in help sessions I am directly next to them, bending over the same piece of paper. And in my tiny office there's no space. So my personal policy is to mask whenever I am with students,  so I don't have to waste energy on evaluating every single individual situation because that is exhausting. 

I mask in public venues where I can't trust people to stay away when ill or exposed. However, I don't mask in small gatherings where I can rely on people to stay home if they have reason to believe they may be ill. Yes, I am fully aware that this isn't 100% protection because they might be presymptomatic; however,  this remedial risk I am willing to accept for the benefit the events offer. I am 4x vaxxed. 

I have also become very selective which events I attend. I will not attend work related meals, unless it's a very special event and I really want to eat the food. For example, I won't attend a lunch gathering of the female faculty group at a steakhouse that doesn't have anything I really want to eat, but I will go to a small dinner for a guest speaker I admire and where there will be a vegetarian option. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by regentrude

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I am still masking in the classroom.  I see 400 in-person students each week, and they live in dorms. In the lecture hall, I may be able to keep a distance,  but in help sessions I am directly next to them, bending over the same piece of paper. And in my tiny office there's no space. So my personal policy is to mask whenever I am with students,  so I don't have to waste energy on evaluating every single individual situation because that is exhausting. 

I mask in public venues where I can't trust people to stay away when ill or exposed. However, I don't mask in small gatherings where I can rely on people to stay home if they have reason to believe they may be ill. Yes, I am fully aware that this isn't 100% protection because they might be presymptomatic; however,  this remedial risk I am willing to accept for the benefit the events offer. I am 4x vaxxed. 

I have also become very selective which events I attend. I will not attend work related meals, unless it's a very special event and I really want to eat the food. For example, I won't attend a lunch gathering of the female faculty group at a steakhouse that doesn't have anything I really want to eat, but I will go to a small dinner for a guest speaker I admire and where there will be a vegetarian option. 

This is exactly the set of decisions I have made. I am the only member of staff in my department who is masking. As a bonus, I have not had my usual bout of Freshers Flu this year.

[regentrude]

27 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

This is exactly the set of decisions I have made. I am the only member of staff in my department who is masking. 

We have a few other colleagues who mask in classes. DH does, too. I really don't give a hoot if anybody thinks I am weird - we are among the very few people I know who have not yet had Covid, so whatever DH and are doing has been working so far, despite having to teach in person for a couple of years now.

[kokotg]

We're pretty much at that "do whatever we'd normally do, but wear a mask in public indoor spaces" place. Apparently the public health plan is that everyone's just supposed to get covid 2 or 3 times a year, and it's no big deal because only 150,000 of them will die (in the US) and then some unknown but large number will have long term complications, and, honestly, that doesn't sound great to me. So if I can get covid once a year instead of 2 or 3 times by grabbing a mask when I leave the house and by sticking with outside restaurants and take-out, I'll do it (we haven't had covid at all as far as we know, so so far it's worked better than that, but I don't expect our luck to hold out forever). DH still masks while he teaches, DS masks at his college classes, youngest kid only takes classes at the homeschool coop that still requires masks. We take risks all the time...my kids play wind instruments, we see family and friends inside unmasked, my 16 year old just went to Dragon Con...but there is an extra "is this worth getting covid for?"  calculation that happens all the time, just sort of automatically now. Kids getting to play their instruments? worth it. Eating inside a restaurant? nah. A friend suggested I sign my youngest up for basketball the other day, and I was just like, "no thanks; we'd probably get covid." But he's happy playing baseball outside, and I certainly don't mind taking the winter off from endless practices and games. If he were begging me to play basketball, the calculation would be different. The calculations might also be different if I ever heard anything at all reassuring about long covid, but right now it just looks a whole lot like we're conducting a gigantic experiment on the entire world, and we have no clue what the outcome will be (you know, except for lots and lots of dead people), but it looks pretty grim.  ETA: I also have "am I willing to do this indefinitely?" as part of my everyday risk analysis, since it looks like that's what we're dealing with. Wearing a mask in public indoor spaces is a yes for me on that. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by kokotg

[mommyoffive]

CDC drops COVID-19 traveler health notices for individual countries (msn.com)

[Not_a_Number]

13 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

You do you.  I am not trying to say what you should do at all.  Just saying what we do.  We are not deforming our lives for covid.  If you are comfortable with what you are doing go for it.  But at this point that isn't what we are doing.  We are vaccinated and boosted and hope that if we  had covid it would be mild, but I don't know that it would be.  I know a lot of people who have been sick with it since school started and it hasn't been mild.  Plus the effects on our lives of missing things, is worth us trying to not get it. 

I don't find masking to be uncomfortable.   We don't mask all the time.  And to me the wanting to see people's faces just isn't a big deal to me at all.  

Absolutely. We're definitely doing what we're comfortable with and I'm happy with the choices we're making. 

I did want to update people, since this was originally my thread, and also because I think people stop posting when they stop being careful, so then this thread becomes rather unrepresentative. I think it's useful to see the range of responses. 

[Laura Corin]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

We have a few other colleagues who mask in classes. DH does, too. I really don't give a hoot if anybody thinks I am weird - we are among the very few people I know who have not yet had Covid, so whatever DH and are doing has been working so far, despite having to teach in person for a couple of years now.

Honestly, the people around me should be grateful I'm bothering  - I've held a lot of forts while other people have been ill.  In the two weeks before the semester started, I was doing three people's jobs.

@kokotg yes - long covid. My brother has been suffering for more than a year now. It's looking - to me - as if he may have a permanent condition.  If I can reduce the likelihood of going into retirement unable to do half the things I hope to enjoy, that's worth it to me. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Laura Corin

[Jean in Newcastle]

Whether Covid is still there is a scientific question with a factual answer. It’s not a crowd sourced answer.  What mitigation measures people take or not,  is of course up to them and will be informed by all sorts of things. I still believe that it’s a decision to be made with input from your doctor because doctors should be involved in what is still primarily a medical issue and not a social one. But I don’t really care how others choose to make those choices. 

[wathe]

34 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Honestly, the people around me should be grateful I'm bothering  - I've held a lot of forts while other people have been ill.  In the two weeks before the semester started, I was doing three people's jobs.

@kokotg yes - long covid. My brother has been suffering for more than a year now. It's looking - to me - as if he may have a permanent condition.  If I can reduce the likelihood of going into retirement unable to do half the things I hope to enjoy, that's worth it to me. 

This resonates.  The bolded is true for me as well.  

[lewelma]

We had mandatory masking in public indoor spaces until 2 weeks ago here in NZ (so February to September 2022).  And we had excellent compliance. Like 100% with masks on and about 5% under their nose. I saw NO ONE without a mask on in the grocery store for 8 months.  

2 weeks ago they removed the mask mandate, and I was the ONLY PERSON in the grocery store with a mask on this weekend. So I guess we are a law abiding people. If the government says mask, we mask. They say we don't need to anymore, we just stop cold turkey. That is some serious trust. 

About 50% of people still mask on public transport.

At this point, I'm masking when around strangers, and not masking when around friends. This is a good compromise for me because I like to talk to my friends without a mask, but I don't care one whit about strangers in the store. 

But we are also heading into summer. People here don't have air conditioning, so just lots of open windows.

Edited October 4, 2022 by lewelma

[TexasProud]

8 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Absolutely. We're definitely doing what we're comfortable with and I'm happy with the choices we're making. 

I did want to update people, since this was originally my thread, and also because I think people stop posting when they stop being careful, so then this thread becomes rather unrepresentative. I think it's useful to see the range of responses. 

EXACTLY.  The same people post on this thread and notice how many people are a part of the board....  A LOT more feel like we do than the people that post.  And when you post what you did, as you saw, you get tons of responses of why that isn't a good idea. 

But I am exactly where you are Not a Number.

[kokotg]

8 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Honestly, the people around me should be grateful I'm bothering  - I've held a lot of forts while other people have been ill.  In the two weeks before the semester started, I was doing three people's jobs.

 

Right, and that's other thing: it's SO disruptive to have people getting sick so often, even without deaths and long covid. I'm surprised there's not more urgency to work on nasal vaccines, etc. that would prevent transmission better just because (if nothing else!) of the economic impacts of having covid running rampant and people getting it over and over again. 

[kokotg]

4 hours ago, lewelma said:

We had mandatory masking in public indoor spaces until 2 weeks ago here in NZ (so February to September 2022).  And we had excellent compliance. Like 100% with masks on and about 5% under their nose. I saw NO ONE without a mask on in the grocery store for 8 months.  

2 weeks ago they removed the mask mandate, and I was the ONLY PERSON in the grocery store with a mask on this weekend. So I guess we are a law abiding people. If the government says mask, we mask. They say we don't need to anymore, we just stop cold turkey. That is some serious trust. 

 

I noticed the same thing summer 2021 as we traveled up the east coast. In my state (at least in my suburban area), where we'd NEVER had a mask mandate, there were way more people still masking than in states in the northeast that had just recently lifted them. 

[strawberries]

I would guess that there are also a lot of people who aren't posting who are still being careful. The precautions have just become so routine as to not warrant discussion. DH, DS, and I all got our bivalent boosters during the past two weeks.  They both had headaches and fatigue the next day; I only had a sore arm. I will likely take DD for her booster within the next week. We are all still masking at school, work, indoor public places, others' homes and in our own home when we have visitors. We're selective about what events we attend - yes to my nieces' play, no to the Braves game. DH and DS are getting on a plane for a college visit this weekend. It's normal enough for us. Light years away from the isolation of 2020. 

Sure, some people, including some friends and family, roll their eyes at our continued masking and caution. We spent 10+ years homeschooling - ignoring opinions about our life choices is not new. 

[Malory]

8 hours ago, lewelma said:

2 weeks ago they removed the mask mandate, and I was the ONLY PERSON in the grocery store with a mask on this weekend. So I guess we are a law abiding people. If the government says mask, we mask. They say we don't need to anymore, we just stop cold turkey. That is some serious trust. 

I saw something similar at church. We were required to mask per county guidelines, so there was almost 100% compliance at church. The week requirement was dropped, there was less than 5% masking at church, just like that. However, I don't think it was trust as much as it was people  not wanting to appear uncaring or "law" breaking.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Malory

[Spryte]

4 hours ago, strawberries said:

I would guess that there are also a lot of people who aren't posting who are still being careful. The precautions have just become so routine as to not warrant discussion. DH, DS, and I all got our bivalent boosters during the past two weeks.  They both had headaches and fatigue the next day; I only had a sore arm. I will likely take DD for her booster within the next week. We are all still masking at school, work, indoor public places, others' homes and in our own home when we have visitors. We're selective about what events we attend - yes to my nieces' play, no to the Braves game. DH and DS are getting on a plane for a college visit this weekend. It's normal enough for us. Light years away from the isolation of 2020. 

Sure, some people, including some friends and family, roll their eyes at our continued masking and caution. We spent 10+ years homeschooling - ignoring opinions about our life choices is not new. 

This could be our family, too. Except I can’t get boosted. Everyone else in our family can, though, and is/will within the the next few weeks. We mask indoors, make choices about the value of events we will attend, and generally go about life masked unless outside. We do a lot outside! Because I am high risk and can’t get boosted right now, we take some extra precautions when/if we suspect a family member has been exposed.

We are usually the lone masked people in a sea of unmasked people, but that’s ok.

None of our household has had Covid. We test at home regularly, and schedule PCRs when anyone seems sick. I’m pretty confident about it, as we have two immune compromised people in the house, and squeaking through with everyone here asymptomatic is unlikely. We did have a nasty, 6 week illness rip through very early on — Dec ‘19, after a trip to Europe. Possibly we had it then, but more likely a different virus.

 

[mommyoffive]

‘The pandemic is far from over – but this is how it ends’ (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Doctors Aren’t Happy About the CDC’s New Mask Guidelines for Health Care Settings (msn.com)

[TCB]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Doctors Aren’t Happy About the CDC’s New Mask Guidelines for Health Care Settings (msn.com)

We still have to mask at the hospital where I work. I’m glad they haven’t removed the guidelines there, although I don’t know how long it will last.

I feel very strongly that HCWs should be masked when they are with a patient at the very least. I read a study, I think from the UK, that found that getting Covid, while hospitalized  after a hip fracture, increased mortality risks by over 30%. That was testing positive for Covid, not necessarily having severe Covid, or having Covid pneumonia. We still know so little about all the implications of this virus. Some modicum of caution seems the least we can do.

[kbutton]

18 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Honestly, the people around me should be grateful I'm bothering  - I've held a lot of forts while other people have been ill.  In the two weeks before the semester started, I was doing three people's jobs.

18 hours ago, wathe said:

This resonates.  The bolded is true for me as well.  

I am really convinced that bonuses would not go amiss in several categories--never missed a day for Covid? Bonus! Wore your mask to that work meeting where everyone else got Covid? Even bigger bonus for withstanding peer pressure! Proposed really good workarounds for when everyone was off for Covid? Bonus for problem-solving!

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, TCB said:

I feel very strongly that HCWs should be masked when they are with a patient at the very least.

Yes. In Australia I think they found about 30% of covid cases are caught while in hospital. This is because they aren't separating out covid and non covid cases, apparently. Which seems insane. There have been a lot of deaths where someone's gone in to hospital for a broken ankle or something not so serious, have caught covid and have died - Liverpool hospital in particular had shockingly high numbers. 

Definitely still masking and avoiding indoor crowds - I don't want Long Covid, and I don't want to spread to others in my community who may be vulnerable. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 hours ago, strawberries said:

I would guess that there are also a lot of people who aren't posting who are still being careful. The precautions have just become so routine as to not warrant discussion. DH, DS, and I all got our bivalent boosters during the past two weeks.  They both had headaches and fatigue the next day; I only had a sore arm. I will likely take DD for her booster within the next week. We are all still masking at school, work, indoor public places, others' homes and in our own home when we have visitors. We're selective about what events we attend - yes to my nieces' play, no to the Braves game. DH and DS are getting on a plane for a college visit this weekend. It's normal enough for us. Light years away from the isolation of 2020. 

Sure, some people, including some friends and family, roll their eyes at our continued masking and caution. We spent 10+ years homeschooling - ignoring opinions about our life choices is not new. 

I'm sure it's true. 

But I will say, having lived in some of the more cautious cities (we're usually in NYC, and right now we're in SF), that the trend is definitely currently for fewer precautions. 

I will also say that, while I don't judge any individual's choices at all (we are all in different circumstances!), I'm overall glad that people are relaxing. Having seen what the years of caution have done to the public spaces in both cities, I have very complicated feelings about how they handled mitigation measures. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

Yes. In Australia I think they found about 30% of covid cases are caught while in hospital. This is because they aren't separating out covid and non covid cases, apparently. Which seems insane. There have been a lot of deaths where someone's gone in to hospital for a broken ankle or something not so serious, have caught covid and have died - Liverpool hospital in particular had shockingly high numbers. 

Definitely still masking and avoiding indoor crowds - I don't want Long Covid, and I don't want to spread to others in my community who may be vulnerable. 

I don’t think they separate cases here anymore either. 

[KSera]

I’m curious to know of the people who are no longer doing much in the way of precautions, how many relaxed those things after getting Covid and finding it not so bad for them personally. Among my circles, the pattern I’ve seen is that many people who were cautious for a long time completely stop being so after they finally get Covid. Not as much true for those that got it and had either a very unpleasant illness or lasting symptoms.
 

I can see psychologically why that’s pretty natural—once people who were worried about the effects have had it, it’s better/easier to assume it actually isn’t a big deal and hasn’t caused any effects on your body, since you can’t change it. It also fits with the general phenomenon that a risk feels less risky the more you’re exposed to it, even if the risk level hasn’t changed (I feel that myself as things that used to really worry me exposure-wise don’t anymore, just because I’ve been in the situation enough times now with nothing bad happening. Doesn’t mean the risk has actually changed.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I’m curious to know of the people who are no longer doing much in the way of precautions, how many relaxed those things after getting Covid and finding it not so bad for them personally. Among my circles, the pattern I’ve seen is that many people who were cautious for a long time completely stop being so after they finally get Covid. Not as much true for those that got it and had either a very unpleasant illness or lasting symptoms.
 

I can see psychologically why that’s pretty natural—once people who were worried about the effects have had it, it’s better/easier to assume it actually isn’t a big deal and hasn’t caused any effects on your body, since you can’t change it. It also fits with the general phenomenon that a risk feels less risky the more you’re exposed to it, even if the risk level hasn’t changed (I feel that myself as things that used to really worry me exposure-wise don’t anymore, just because I’ve been in the situation enough times now with nothing bad happening. Doesn’t mean the risk has actually changed.)

I know more than a few people who got very mild Covid but don’t seem to see any correlation at all with the mysterious blood clots, a-fib or other problems that came seemingly out of the blue. I don’t say anything- it is truly possible to have these issues separate from Covid but statistically it seems more likely that they are connected. 
 

My posts on this thread have zero to do with trying to convince people towards any course of action anymore. People are making their own decisions. I still post though to correct misinformation. I want people to at least have a fighting chance when making those decisions. 

[mommyoffive]

COVID State of Affairs: Oct 5 - by Katelyn Jetelina (substack.com)

Here we go again. The start of a new wave. Eyes are on Western Europe, as hospitalizations are uniformly increasing

Interestingly, no new subvariant is driving this wave, as the majority of cases are still the “old” BA.5 subvariant. This means changing weather, waning immunity, and/or changing behaviors are the culprit. This theory is only solidified when we see patterns are not changing in neighboring country Israel, for example, whose weather hasn’t started changing yet.

This is concerning because subvariants are brewing. They only make up a small percentage of cases for now, but they are gaining ground; historically, we feel their impact when they make up ~30-50% of cases. These subvariants will eventually add fuel to the fire.

Given the U.S. has mirrored European trends throughout the pandemic, a wave in the U.S. is likely coming.

On a national level, SARS-CoV-2 wastewater has been decreasing the past two weeks, but that deceleration has started to level off. If we zoom in to specific jurisdictions, like Boston, there are concerning signals with sudden increases in viral wastewater levels. Wastewater will continue to be a huge asset moving forward as an early indicator of transmission in communities.

Given the current growth, we will likely see an impact on national metrics in mid-November

The height of a U.S. wave is partially dependent on the number of people who get a fall booster. Unfortunately, it looks like the majority of Americans will be going into the winter ill-prepared. A new Kaiser Family Foundation survey found 40% of Americans are unsure if the booster is recommended for them, including about half of fully vaccinated rural residents (54%), Hispanic adults (51%), and those without a college degree (49%). There is clearly a failure of communication and outreach. This must be a priority as vaccines continue to protect against death, severe disease, transmission, cases, and long COVID-19. So far only 7.6 million Americans have received their fall booster.

 

[mommyoffive]

Anthony Fauci Says He Should Have Exercised More Caution In Delivering COVID Advice (msn.com)

[Martha in GA]

11 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I know more than a few people who got very mild Covid but don’t seem to see any correlation at all with the mysterious blood clots, a-fib or other problems that came seemingly out of the blue. I don’t say anything- it is truly possible to have these issues separate from Covid but statistically it seems more likely that they are connected. 

I definitely feel Covid and the blood clots, a-fib, etc. are related. Do you think the vaccination status matters at all in the development of these post-Covid symptoms?

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I definitely feel Covid and the blood clots, a-fib, etc. are related. Do you think the vaccination status matters at all in the development of these post-Covid symptoms?

I don't know enough to say.  Anecdotally the people I know with these post-Covid symptoms were either never vaccinated or just got the very first vaccination late 2020 (or perhaps early 2021) but none of the boosters. 

[catz]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I don't know enough to say.  Anecdotally the people I know with these post-Covid symptoms were either never vaccinated or just got the very first vaccination late 2020 (or perhaps early 2021) but none of the boosters. 

I do wish we had some studies on this! Because early on I did know people who were hospitalized, had long recoveries and other issues.  

But I know oh-so-many (vaccinated 3X+) people this year who've had the omicron strain, recovered quickly and are fine.  The only person I know who had a slower recovery has a lot of other autoimmune issues (and I believe after like 6 weeks she was at her baseline).  I don't really know unvaccinated people IRL.  

[kokotg]

12 minutes ago, Martha in GA said:

I definitely feel Covid and the blood clots, a-fib, etc. are related. Do you think the vaccination status matters at all in the development of these post-Covid symptoms?

What I've seen about to what extent vaccination reduces long covid isn't terribly reassuring. It's certainly better than not being vaccinated, but some of the big recent studies only peg the reduction at 15%. Others at more like 50. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01453-0

Of course, the vaccinated still get covid at a lower rate than the unvaccinated, so it helps reduce it that way, too. And, also of course, long covid itself is so tricky to define and is defined in such a wide variety of ways that studying it is also tricky. 

[KSera]

30 minutes ago, kokotg said:

What I've seen about to what extent vaccination reduces long covid isn't terribly reassuring. It's certainly better than not being vaccinated, but some of the big recent studies only peg the reduction at 15%. Others at more like 50. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01453-0

Of course, the vaccinated still get covid at a lower rate than the unvaccinated, so it helps reduce it that way, too. And, also of course, long covid itself is so tricky to define and is defined in such a wide variety of ways that studying it is also tricky. 

I tend to think of long Covid as a distinct entity from the other long-term negative affects of having Covid, like the blood clots, increased stroke and heart attack risk, immune dysregulation, etc. I am going to see what the most updated research is looking like as far as how the latter things are affected by being vaccinated. I somehow thought that those things were more significantly reduced than the risk of long Covid was, but now I’m on sure if that’s true, particularly with people who have gotten variants that are so far removed from the strain they were vaccinated against.

[mommyoffive]

Long COVID is not just a health issue, it’s now becoming workforce issue as employers and workers struggle with long-term effects (msn.com)

[HSmomof2]

15 hours ago, KSera said:

I’m curious to know of the people who are no longer doing much in the way of precautions, how many relaxed those things after getting Covid and finding it not so bad for them personally. Among my circles, the pattern I’ve seen is that many people who were cautious for a long time completely stop being so after they finally get Covid. Not as much true for those that got it and had either a very unpleasant illness or lasting symptoms.
 

I can see psychologically why that’s pretty natural—once people who were worried about the effects have had it, it’s better/easier to assume it actually isn’t a big deal and hasn’t caused any effects on your body, since you can’t change it. It also fits with the general phenomenon that a risk feels less risky the more you’re exposed to it, even if the risk level hasn’t changed (I feel that myself as things that used to really worry me exposure-wise don’t anymore, just because I’ve been in the situation enough times now with nothing bad happening. Doesn’t mean the risk has actually changed.)

While I haven’t thrown all caution to the wind, I am more relaxed in precautions since having Covid in late June and a recent 4th booster. I still avoid crowded indoor spaces and do a lot outdoors, grocery pickup, selectively masking (airport/travel, if a store feels more crowded than I’m comfortable with, etc). Covid was pretty mild for our family. I don’t personally know anyone that has a severe infection or post/long Covid issues. Pretty much everyone I know has been vaccinated with at least the original series. The only person close to me that hasn’t had Covid is my mother, despite her being a close contact many times. 
I do still watch the trends, and if I start to see cases increase and/or a new variant emerges, I will take more precautions again. While Covid was mild the first time, I don’t really want it repeatedly and am under no illusion that it would be mild again or new variants will be mild. 

[vonfirmath]

14 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I know more than a few people who got very mild Covid but don’t seem to see any correlation at all with the mysterious blood clots, a-fib or other problems that came seemingly out of the blue. I don’t say anything- it is truly possible to have these issues separate from Covid but statistically it seems more likely that they are connected. 
 

My posts on this thread have zero to do with trying to convince people towards any course of action anymore. People are making their own decisions. I still post though to correct misinformation. I want people to at least have a fighting chance when making those decisions. 

My sister is very thankful that she had her first known stroke before getting Covid OR the shots because she says for sure she'd blame it on them if it had been afterward. But she can't because she had her first visible one nearly a month before catching Covid (and may even have caught Covid in the doctor's appointments she had afterward) And even at that point they could tell it was the latest in a string of strokes.

 

[TCB]

6 hours ago, Martha in GA said:

I definitely feel Covid and the blood clots, a-fib, etc. are related. Do you think the vaccination status matters at all in the development of these post-Covid symptoms?

I think vaccination does reduce blood clot risks

 

 

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, TCB said:

I think vaccination does reduce blood clot risks

 

 

Thanks for sharing this. My recollection was that it did decrease the risk--the 28-fold increase in unvaccinated people is even higher than I expected, though. Whoa. Even so, the fact that fully vaxxed breakthrough is still associated with a 5x increase is another data point on why some of us still aren't cool with just catching it as many times as may happen without precautions.

[Corraleno]

According to Katelyn Jetelina, the Omicron variant that is currently "winning the race" in Europe, BQ11, evolved from BA5. If that holds true in the US as well, that could be good news since the US booster is based on BA5. So for anyone who has been on the fence about the bivalent booster, that may be a factor to consider.

I got a Moderna booster yesterday, which I was dreading because the last 2 Moderna boosters really kicked my butt, after not having much of a reaction to the first two Pfizer shots. I was relieved that I just had a sore arm and one evening of a vague "I might be coming down with something" sort of feeling. I'm perfectly fine today and my arm is only a little sore.

Both of my kids got Pfizer boosters; I would have preferred Moderna for DD since she has had all Pfizer so far, but Moderna was super scarce here — I was only able to find ONE appointment within a 3 week period, which I snagged for myself. DS has purposely had all Pfizer since he's in the demographic with the highest risk for myocarditis. Neither of them have had covid despite multiple exposures via co-workers or teammates.

[mommyoffive]

CDC will end daily COVID-19 reports (msn.com)

[Roadrunner]

I ended up with Covid couple of months ago. I am high risk and was so worried. Ended up being nothing, a bit of nose cold. Not even runny nose, just a funny feeling in the nose. In contrast my last cold had me on asthma meds for over a month. I am done worrying. Will boost when available. I refuse to wear a mask unless it’s required. I don’t live in a city so it’s not like I see a ton of people. If anything like Delta shows up again, I will reconsider, but for now, I don’t see a point of worrying anymore. 

[mommyoffive]

Paxlovid update: Effectiveness, rebounding, drug interactions (substack.com)

[KSera]

This article in Fortune yesterday seemed apropos to the discussion here:

Strokes, heart attacks, sudden deaths: Does America understand the long-term risks of catching COVID?

The whole thing is worth reading, so I’ll pick only one quote:

”We’re still learning how pervasive this all is. An analysis of more than 150,000 COVID-19 survivors published in Nature Medicine found that people with coronavirus are at increased risk of developing neurologic sequelae–including strokes, cognition and memory problems, seizures, movement disorders, and many other issues–in the first year after infection. The risks of developing these long-term complications were apparent even in people who did not require hospitalization during their initial infection.”

Other studies have found this risk increases with every infection someone gets. I’m reading this having had a Covid exposure and waiting to see if I stay clear 😬. I still fully expect we’re likely to have at least some of us get it at some point, but we’re going to try to keep that to as few of us for as few times as possible. We really need sterilizing vaccines, and the nasal vaccines show real promise, I just wish they would hurry up. 

[KSera]

I can’t remember if it was this thread or a different one where we were discussing hospital acquired Covid. The numbers coming out of the UK are shockingly high. I’m sure it’s happening in the US as well, though, I believe there are more places in the US where masks are still being worn in hospitals. Seems like malpractice right now for healthcare workers or other hospital personnel to be near vulnerable patients without being masked up.

 

 

[Acadie]

UK radiologist in the past week seeing more severe lung involvement, as with earlier variants. One doc in US (Deep South) says they're seeing it clinically too. 

A skeptic on the thread asks if the radiologist Tweeted about decreased lung pathology with Omicron over the winter. That's a fair question, and in fact he did.

Concerning news combined with stats on 37% increase in UK hospitalizations over the last week. 

https://twitter.com/DrGrahamLJ/status/1578330519112421376?s=20&t=r1NtVz-18huQgIzFudxdsQ

Edited October 7, 2022 by Acadie

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

Seems like malpractice right now for healthcare workers or other hospital personnel to be near vulnerable patients without being masked up.

I agree. I have been reading that some healthcare workers feel really strongly that masking should now be a universal precaution in the way the gloving up and washing hands are universal precautions. We beefed up a ton of that for AIDS. We can do it again. A lot of the people who feel this way are expressing dismay that we've likely been underestimating how often HCWs have been making people sick in the past. It reminds me of the agitation to get ties, etc. out of  patient care because they harbor germs.

One side question...how often do people in the UK get a private room? They are very common in the US, and that might make a difference in their numbers even if everything else is comparable.

[Starr]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

One side question...how often do people in the UK get a private room? They are very common in the US, and that might make a difference in their numbers even if everything else is comparable.

I have not found private rooms to be common where I live. I even was in a 4 bed room!