.

[Drama Llama]

Thanks everyone, for obvious reasons I need this not to stay up.

If you responded, and you're willing to delete I'll be grateful

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey
.

[Sneezyone]

I am team kid. I’ve dealt with an absentee parent for most of my marriage and I strongly support the person with the closest relationship to/most intimate knowledge of the children making this decision. How you couch that in discussions with DH, I don’t know. For me, I was very straight out and direct. However legitimate your reasons for being away, this is where we are. I know these kids and I am much better positioned to assess their needs. If that’s not enough, it may be time to rope your kids in to advocate for themselves. That’s how I got DS to camp last year. He made the case to his dad himself (and DH, having never heard DS be so sure, immediately agreed). I think your kids are old enough to speak for/advocate for themselves too. It’s an important skill.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Catwoman]

Put your foot down and do what is best for your child.

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

DS advocating isn't an option.  Their relationship at this point is too fragile.  

In that case, *I* would definitely stand in the breach. This is what needs to happen right now and it’s a hill I’m willing to die on. I’m open to reevaluating later but this is best for right now.

[Anne]

Perhaps their relationship might be a selling point for DH?  If DH forces DS to leave a school he is thriving in, what will that do to their relationship?

Anne

[YaelAldrich]

1 minute ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DS advocating isn't an option.  Their relationship at this point is too fragile.  

Would your DS writing him be any better? If they can't have any conversation, maybe this is an option?

[lmrich]

I can't imagine that promises you made before you actually had the kids are real promises. And promising to send your kids to a catholic school before they are born, before  you knew them, before the shift in education, before Covid, well... I mean really you have no reason to feel bad about that. If your dh is able to talk and have a good conversation while looking at the situation now, then go ahead and talk. But, in my life as the momma, I trust my gut and when I have not trusted my gut, I have regrets. 

Sometimes your gut instinct is actully  wisdom. 

[Faith-manor]

I am team kid. No promise made about "how we will raise the children" when there were in fact no children and no idea what would be the extenuating circumstances are not realistic. They just are not. Sacrificing a child's education and well being to unrealistic promises isn't acceptable in my book.

And I don't want to sound harsh but I do believe this firmly. If one parent becomes ill and can no longer parent leaving the other person with the lion's share of all the work and decision making for such an extended period as this, that person does not get to come back and suddenly make demands or interfere. For the kids it isn't necessarily about trust as much as it is needing to feel like this person who has been absent from meeting their needs for so long is actually willing to meet their needs and be a team player. There will be relationship problems if he cannot recognize that. 

On top of that, while it is possible he will be ready to become a team player in February, it is also possible that he won't, and that leaves you holding the bag again. Therefore, this really needs to be your decision in conjunction with your child, while dad happily nods and gets on board with the plan and supports it.

Many hugs. This isn't easy for sure, and I do not want to come across as minimizing it!

[Dmmetler]

I think I would get a listing of course options, etc for both schools and present it that way. If the Catholic K-8 only offers through Algebra 1, but the private allows courses beyond that, it's a pretty strong difference. That was basically what decided it when DH would have preferred L go to school for high school, but L was thriving with part time college and homeschooling the rest. There was simply no way the public high schools offered the same level of coursework. 

 

I'd also look at options for religious education, just to explain how that is covered as well. 

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Melissa Louise]

Deleted at OP request.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[Lawyer&Mom]

This kid has had enough upheaval.  He needs stability and therefore needs to stay put.  Catholic school can wait til high school.

Can you after school some religious ed? As a Catholic school parent I know it probably wouldn’t be that hard to do a better job than the parish school at least in terms of covering Catholic doctrine.  (The communal celebrations of the Catholic year are harder to replace.) I really like the Living My Religion series.  We just read them at home to supplement Catholic school.

https://www.olvs.org/store/lepanto/lp-religion/living-my-religion-set-1-8/

 

 

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I’m in a similar situation. DH, like me, grew up in a family where Mom made all the kid decisions and Dad made the income.  DH tends to default to that a lot without realizing it, but also really wants to be involved, but then is really vague  when I actually try to discuss things with him.  It drives me nuts. 
 

DD9 is miserable in our new school district. She was in a gifted program before moving and there is none here.  She’s bored and miserable, and we need to consider other options.  There’s a private school I think she’d flourish at, but it’s $$$$.  There’s a hybrid homeschool program I think I could tweak good, but that involves me dropping to part time at work. Again, $$$.  Applications for either are due in February and we really have to decide.  DH’s view of education is the path of least resistance, and he doesn’t see or understand why staying in public school isn’t a great idea for her.  He is not the one talking to the school, going to parent-teacher conferences,  listening to DD9 express her misery.  In the end, that is what I am going to say.  Due to his work schedule, he’s not here with them most evenings. He has never wanted to interact with the school.   And I am going to eventually make the decision myself and simply tell him that he isn’t dealing with the day to day effects and doesn’t want to discuss how much the public school here is not a good fit for DD9, so I made the decision.  I am the one who ultimately has to deal with the parenting consequences of any choice, so I’m making the call.

And then because DD9 really needs to know Dad backs her up 100%(very important to this particular child), I’m going to tell him he needs to keep any and all opinions to himself or to me privately. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Katy]

nm

Edited December 16, 2021 by Katy

[fairfarmhand]

This is no different than if he'd been dealing with cancer for 2 years and unable to participate in family decisions.

Kids change so much in that amount of time, and so has he. The Whole family has to be able to get to know one another again and until that work is done, no unnecessary changes need to be put in place. The kids need to get to know who dad is on the other side of this illness. Dad needs to get to know who the kids have become in his absence. 

Only at that point will your dh be able to have informed input on the decisions that are needing to be made. It is unfair for him to step in and want this when he and the kids are sort of strangers at this point.

The kids need the stability right now. I would not change but I would explain it to my dh as above. Not that you are making plans for 5 years from now, but for the next 18 months, let's just leave things as they are and explore  doctrine as a family in the evenings. That could be really fun. 

[Murphy101]

Have you layed  out the decision as you present it here to your husband?  If so, how has he responded?  I would never ask my kid to advocate for themselves against a parent. That’s an unfair dynamic in even great relationships. I think you and Dh need to come to a United decision about what to do and present that to the child.  Is your Dh in a healthy enough position to help more so that you don’t feel it’s entirely on you?  Even if it’s just one school aspect that he could take on, that may make a difference.   What are his reasons for catholic school?  I mean I am Catholic so I get that aspect, but frankly, the Catholic schools are minority Catholic students and the Catholic teachers are a minority too.  (At least here they are. Your area may be different. ) But even if the school is very devout, it’s not going to replace family involvement in the local parish for religious formation of your kids. Is your husband involved in your parish?  Are your kids?  If not, would becoming more involved help with his concerns?

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Murphy101

[Murphy101]

9 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I'm absolutely team kid, but I also know that DH and my ability to figure out how to work together, whether that's as a married team or as functional divorced co-parents, is going to be critical to this kid's emotional well being.  His Dad's health and it's impact on Dad's behavior has done far more damage to him this year than the wrong school possibly could.  And we're in an area with a lot of Catholic options.   I'm not saying I disagree with you, but it's just way more complicated than "Team DH" vs. "Team kid". 

Amen. The minute it goes from team family to family member vs family member, it’s already a losing game for the kids. 

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[SKL]

Time being so tight, I might lean toward doing the testing etc. for the Catholic school.  I would not push him to prepare, just take him to test and tell him it's to keep options open.

Meanwhile I'd try to encourage your ds to talk to his dad about what he loves about his current school.

I would be totally honest but also fair and realistic.  I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping options open, as long as nobody is being dishonest about thoughts or intentions.

[freesia]

I can really understand the pull you feel, bc I, too, would feel the pull of the promise.  Educational choices are really intimate and tied with values. 

In my house, dh would really really like to move.  For me, it would be terrible to move bc my third has had the hardest time during Covid and is just getting his feet under him again.  He has also just been pulled into senior leadership in an extra curricular--something I know he really wanted. I know these things.  Dh, while an involved father, does not have the same handle on the kids that I do.  So, I am making a firm stand for no, I won't pull the rug out from under ds when things are just stablizing.

I know that's not the same thing as your situation, but I'm sharing it to say that sometimes one parent does know best when something would be too much for a child.  It would be better for dh to move now, but he can wait.

Are there aspects of Catholic education that matter most for your dh?  If it's daily religious teaching, you could add family devotions.  If it's not having a secular worldview taught, maybe you could add some kind of worldview training, casually at the dinner table.  Does your child seem to be drifting from the faith or is he worried about that? Could you get him more involved in  youth group or someplace that would help him navigate that. Catholic pedagogy shines, imo, in high school, which you have said you would do.

[Katy]

nm

Edited December 16, 2021 by Katy

[Melissa Louise]

Deleted

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise

[Melissa Louise]

And trying to be a parent? It's not really about making big decisions you then don't  have to deal with again personally. 

It's more the small things that will help the kids regain trust. Not Dad coming in and asserting a position. 

I would find this situation hard to DIY. 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Melissa Louise
Read the OP properly

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

That wasn't his fault, and I'm not sure being that blunt is going to move us towards him being a better parent.  

He's trying to be a parent.  Whether I agree with him about this choice, he's trying to provide for his son something that he believes in.  I happen to disagree with him, but that doesn't mean it's not coming from a place of trying to parent his child.  

ITA. You’re trying to reintegrate, not alienate. That means making sure DH knows the kids you have now, not before. It may not be possible for the kids to make that intro but it surely needs to happen. If your kiddos aren’t capable of doing that now then, sadly, it falls to you alone. You can have those convos as often and as incremental as you need to but the bottom line would be the same…DS isn’t changing schools.

[Murphy101]

Another factor I would consider is IF you do divorce (as it seems you may think possible? Likely? Idk.) then which decision is likely to stick in that situation?

What decision would be better long term?  For example, I would agree stability is important but which option will require the least change later? For example if Catholic high school is a given, moving him to Catholic school in 8th grade might actually be best bc he will have a year to make friends in a smaller pool before jumping to the big pool of high school. (At least here that’s the case. All the k-8 Catholic schools funnel to only 1 or 2 Catholic high schools. 
 

I agree his mental illness may not be his fault but how he does or does not address his mental illness IS his fault to at least some degree.  And repairing the relationship will take a lot of his effort and time.  I would not ever even mention that Dh is the one wanting them to go Catholic school. Either I’m okay with it too and that’s good enough. Or I’m not and I need to let that be my problem alone if I decide to go ahead and send them. 

[prairiewindmomma]

He’s asking you to take the work of arranging everything to support a choice you do not like and that is not in the interests of your child based on factors that no longer directly apply to the situation.

I’d support the stability of the kid and he is thriving where he is at. 

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[fraidycat]

You made an agreement prior to having kids, then life happened. Your most recent agreement is the one where "private secular is better than public secular and DH expressed the wish that you'd look at returning them to Catholic high school and you agreed". This new agreement negates the old agreement, and your younger is still in middle school.

Therefore, no promises or agreements are being broken on YOUR end.

Keep DS in the school where he is thriving, give him the stability he so desperately needs, and tell DH to suck it up because the agreement is to revisit school decisions when they enter high school.

[prairiewindmomma]

You stated above that they are safer physically at this school from Covid, that they have established safe emotional connections, and they have progressed academically more than the previous school. The thriving comment was re: to the previous school choice.

If your kid is like many kids, a safe stable school environment is an emotional escape from chaos at home. That strongly tilts me towards not making another change. Kids need a chance to find stability somewhere especially if a lot of emotional work is happening at home.

[Murphy101]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

My kids aren't thriving.  They're doing the best they can in a difficult situation, and I think school has helped them, but they desperately need more stability in their family.

To you - what would that stability look like if you stay with your Dh?  What does it look like if you are divorced?  How would the school they attend help that in either situation?

I am very much a domino thinker.  If I want this domino 5 spaces away, what dominos do I need to make sure fall to hit it?

[fraidycat]

10 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

My kids aren't thriving.  They're doing the best they can in a difficult situation, and I think school has helped them, but they desperately need more stability in their family.

They have lots of sports which he loves, he's happy to go to school which was not true before, he's making friends, and the school has been supportive emotionally. 
 

He may not be thriving overall, but these are some huge factors in helping him to thrive in this one facet of his life. 
 

I would fight tooth and nail to protect that for my kid.

Edited December 15, 2021 by fraidycat

[prairiewindmomma]

36 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Just wanted to add, you know that you can't keep dh functional by dealing with triggers for him, right? 

His wellness or illness will largely be a matter of his treatment, not of you twisting yourself in knots. 

If he has a therapist, disappointment at maintaining the status quo re school is a really valid emotion for him to share there. It's OK for you to disappoint him, and it's ok for him to be disappointed.

Disappointment can't trigger a major relapse in someone whose condition is well-treated. 

 

Can we circle back to this for a sec? This is such a huge, huge, huge point. In healthy relationships, it’s ok for you guys to disagree. It’s ok for him to be disappointed. I am catching a whiff of you being afraid for your relationship if you don’t agree on this schooling decision. If that’s the case (not saying that it is), then I think that’s points to the fundamental unhealthiness in the relationship. And, frankly, I think that should have you circle back to making decisions based on focusing on the kid in front of you. The school decision is about your kid, not about your marriage.

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Can we circle back to this for a sec? This is such a huge, huge, huge point. In healthy relationships, it’s ok for you guys to disagree. It’s ok for him to be disappointed. I am catching a whiff of you being afraid for your relationship if you don’t agree on this schooling decision. If that’s the case (not saying that it is), then I think that’s points to the fundamental unhealthiness in the relationship. And, frankly, I think that should have you circle back to making decisions based on focusing on the kid in front of you. The school decision is about your kid, not about your marriage.

Yes, this. Very, very important!

[bolt.]

Three different questions from three different perspectives:

1. Are there any options for you to sort of satisfy your husband's desire for a strong Catholic influence in your son's life -- other than them being the owner/operator of the school you choose for him? Do they have youth groups or classes or something that he could go to, to 'make up for what he is missing' by attending a secular school that is meeting his needs right now?

2. How long can you keep your options open? Can you jump through some hoops without making any commitments for now? What would that look like, and where would the eventual deadlines settle?

3. Is there a way to view this situation through the lens of "boundaries" -- as in, "I'm not opposed to you having and pursuing educational goals for our kids, but it's up to you to do the work for your own goals. Catholic schooling isn't one of my goals, so I'm not going to make any arrangements or do any further research. If you want it to happen, it's going to have to be up to you to do those things to make it a viable option, and then we can talk." That's basically an ultimatum of: "If you lack the capacity to do the work, you lack the ability to influence this decision." -- which you kind of already know to be true. (This is how 'functional co-parenting' would work if you were divorced or separated.)

[JustEm]

I would put my foot down and say that ds isn't leaving the school he is at.  I would agree to reevaluate in a year after a year of mental health stability for dh and the relationship between him and is ds has had time to heal.  This seems like a hill to die on situation for me.  And you can say it wasn't your dh's fault that he was a terrible parent all you want but that doesn't change the fact that he was a terrible parent and that him trying to step back into the role of parent over such big decisions isn't healthy for anyone.  He has to start small by fixing the damage he caused to all of you.  Until that has been consistently getting better for everyone the big decisions are on you because you as the parent the kids trust know what is best for them.

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, bolt. said:

 

3. Is there a way to view this situation through the lens of "boundaries" -- as in, "I'm not opposed to you having and pursuing educational goals for our kids, but it's up to you to do the work for your own goals. Catholic schooling isn't one of my goals, so I'm not going to make any arrangements or do any further research. If you want it to happen, it's going to have to be up to you to do those things to make it a viable option, and then we can talk." That's basically an ultimatum of: "If you lack the capacity to do the work, you lack the ability to influence this decision." -- which you kind of already know to be true. (This is how 'functional co-parenting' would work if you were divorced or separated.)

The issue with that is it gives him cart blanche to walk two blocks down the road and enroll him in a school that is academically unsuitable for kid.  That would be the easy thing for him to do, and leaves mom to either say, "No," or capitulate.

I think re-evaluating when younger kid gets to ninth grade, to look at high school options, is reasonable, but best interests of the child would be a hill to die on here, for me.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Terabith

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[Sneezyone]

I think you really have to decide how much veto power you’re going to allow DH while you’re working on your marital/reintegration issues. The consensus seems to be that those are separate issues and you need to treat them as such. Conflating them is going to short change you/your kids on both fronts. You are the primary parent right now and you need to make the best decision for your kids that you can right now. You and DH can sort out the impact on your marriage, separately, in therapy.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[fairfarmhand]

3 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

If I die on any hill, that's not in my child's interest.  

Yeah, if you die on a hill, you're still dead.....Navigating this stuff is hard hard hard. 

I have a child who struggles with mental illness. You can know it's not the ill persons fault, but it still wounds you and you still have to recover from all that. Just because someone is stable, doesn't mean they are healthy. In fact, they're usually released from the hospital as "Stable" but it takes weeks and months of work and slogging and tears before wellness is anything more than a far away thing on the horizon.

One thing to acknowledge is that nothing will ever be as it used to be. It can be good. It can be wonderful. But you have to carve a new path and make a new future. You are both changed people from the events that led to this illness as well as the illness. But don't try to restore what has been lost. Grieve that. And make something new.

And encourage your dh to see that "it's just a year of school" Can we revisit this in a year? I really had to talk my child down from making some stellar stupid decisions when she was unwell. I would tell her, "when you're not doing great, that's the worst time to make a big change. Let's just keep things as they are for now, and in the future, you can always revisit it."

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey

[prairiewindmomma]

Maybe we can sit with you in grief that nothing is simple? In some ways it was easier when he was away because you didn’t have this challenge also, and now you do. 
 

 

[freesia]

Does he have any therapy that you could attend with him to work through this together with help?

[Drama Llama]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Baseballandhockey
Bad at math

[Sneezyone]

I *TOTALLy* get it. I am parenting both my narcissistic mother and my bipolar sister through a complex disintanglement involving legal threats, new mortgage loans and a lot of $$$$. It is exhausting. I have a family of my own and it’s my DSs birthday and flipping Christmas. *STILL* no matter how hard that is, I refuse to jeopardize my kids, my marriage (in my case) or my own goals (a new, paid job) to help them. My priorities are very clear to me. Real talk, have you clarified yours? What do *you* want for yourself and your kids?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Melissa Louise