The Vaccine Thread

[ieta_cassiopeia]

On 12/31/2020 at 3:41 PM, Lanny said:

This morning (31 December 2020) I read an article on the web site of the largest newspaper here in Cali. Colombia about one of the COVID-19 vaccines the Colombian government is going to buy. It is made and/or sold by Jannsen, which is apparently an affiliate or subsidiary of Johnson and Johnson.

I think I had read a few months ago they were doing part of the testing here in Cali.

The most interesting thing to me is that it only requires one (1) injection.

I have no idea how effective it is or is not within the general population or elderly population.

The government here is going to buy that for 9 million people. They believe it will take approximately 70% to have "herd immunity"

This is the URL and the article is in Spanish:

https://www.elpais.com.co/ultimo-minuto/duque-anuncia-la-adquisicion-de-9-millones-de-vacunas-contra-el-covid-19-de-janssen.html

Phase 3 trials started for a Janssen vaccine in the UK 7 weeks ago, and it may provide protection for 15 million people in the UK in the latter half of 2021 if it passes. However, that is a 2-dose version. I do not know if there will be a separate trial for a 1-dose version in the UK; it appears that the current plan is to have the 1-dose and 2-dose trials run simultaneously, but not necessarily have both trialled for any given country.

 

On 1/2/2021 at 1:14 AM, Corraleno said:

That's a really interesting point. I wonder if the decision to do the second dose at 3-4 weeks, instead of 6-8 weeks, was mainly about getting the trials done as quickly as possible, and not because it was actually the optimal — or even most practical — time frame. I think the AZ vaccine allows the second dose up to 12 weeks later.

In conventional times, the shorter the gap between doses, the less likely it is that people forget to show up for dose #2. However, the shorter the gap, the more intense the dosing load. Therefore, from a safety point of view, it's necessary to test for the shortest gap that is intended to be allowed.

Strictly speaking, there should have been another strand of the trial for the higher end of the proposed range (in this case, 12 weeks), to check there was no gap in protection being introduced by the initial dose wearing off, but the speed with which this needed to be rolled out may have prevented that from being tested.

[wathe]

Re vaccine and pregnancy, and vaccine and allergy risks:

Both the Society of Obstetricians and Gynecologists of Canada (SOGC) and the  The Canadian Society of Allergy & Clinical Immunology (CSACI)- have put out position statements

SOGC encourages vaccination in pregnant people at high-risk of exposure to covid or at high risk of covid morbidity. The known risks of covid are greater than the unknown risk of the vaccine

“For individuals who are at high-risk of infection and/or morbidity from COVID-19, it is the SOGC’s position that the documented risk of not getting the COVID-19 vaccine outweighs the theorized and undescribed risk of being vaccinated during pregnancy or while breastfeeding and vaccination should be offered.”

CSACI encourages vaccination in those with allergies, unless they are allergic to a component of the vaccine:

“The CSACI would like to reassure our fellow Canadians that unless one has a pre-existing allergy to a component of a vaccine, including the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, it is safe to proceed with vaccination for COVID-19. In addition, those with other allergic problems are no more likely to experience an allergic reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine than the general population and should safely be able to receive this vaccine—this includes those with a history of serious allergic reactions or anaphylaxis to substances that are not an ingredient in this vaccine, and those with food allergy, eczema, allergic rhinitis (hay fever), asthma, or stinging insect allergy.”

Edited January 5, 2021 by wathe

[sassenach]

I have my appointment tomorrow morning! I am phase 1A, tier 2 in CA. Ds, who truly is the most at-risk person in our family, will be phase 1C. I wish I could give my dose to him.

Edited January 5, 2021 by sassenach

[sassenach]

Got the Moderna vaccine this morning. Not painful at all going in. I’m having some mild joint pain. My arm feels normal sore. 

[sassenach]

On 1/6/2021 at 2:21 PM, sassenach said:

Got the Moderna vaccine this morning. Not painful at all going in. I’m having some mild joint pain. My arm feels normal sore. 

Day 3 update: The joint pain increased to moderate on day one, decreased to mild on day 2, and is so far gone on day 3. Arm pain was pretty bad yesterday and limited my range of motion but is about 80% better today. I've been taking Tylenol on and off, though I'm not sure it makes a huge difference. 

So that's about it! It'll be interesting to see the difference for my second shot. 

[vonfirmath]

35 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Day 3 update: The joint pain increased to moderate on day one, decreased to mild on day 2, and is so far gone on day 3. Arm pain was pretty bad yesterday and limited my range of motion but is about 80% better today. I've been taking Tylenol on and off, though I'm not sure it makes a huge difference. 

So that's about it! It'll be interesting to see the difference for my second shot. 

My arm was sore for about the same amount of time -- 3 days. But never enough to limit range of motion or need relief (though I had some on hand just in case). On the third day, it only hurt when someone else brushed against me (Before that I actually thought it was "Better")  I did find I did not want to sleep on that side the first couple of nights.

[Laura Corin]

I heard a GP talking about how very fragile the Pfizer vaccine is. You have to invert it the exact number of times to mix it. Then you mustn't even carry it upstairs - that would jar it too much and deactivate it.

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

I heard a GP talking about how very fragile the Pfizer vaccine is. You have to invert it the exact number of times to mix it. Then you mustn't even carry it upstairs - that would jar it too much and deactivate it.

Yikes, that doesn't seem good. 

Anecdotally speaking, I seem to be hearing about a lot more people getting the Moderna vaccine now than the Pfizer one.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I heard a GP talking about how very fragile the Pfizer vaccine is. You have to invert it the exact number of times to mix it. Then you mustn't even carry it upstairs - that would jar it too much and deactivate it.

You wonder how many times the vaccine will not work because it’s not been done right 

[Laura Corin]

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

You wonder how many times the vaccine will not work because it’s not been done right 

This is what worries me. And if it doesn't work, that will feed the conspiracy theories. 

The programme was Newscast, dated 7 January, available on BBC Sounds.  She said that to vaccinate 1,000 front-line NHS workers on New Years Day took 4 medics to prepare the vaccine and 12 to administer it. They were told that, once diluted, the vaccine 'doesn't walk', so presumably they couldn't even separate the preparation into a separate  quiet room. She said that they joked it was like defusing a bomb.

@Wheres Toto is the Moderna less fragile? It's also MRNA. The issue with the Pfizer is that the active element has a lipid coat that, if damaged, inactivates the vaccine. The UK has only just approved the Moderna and the government hasn't bought big supplies. I'm likely to get the Oxford vaccine sometime next summer, with luck.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Ausmumof3]

I read tonight that Denmark has vaccinated all care home residents already.  Anyone know more?  

[maize]

5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

This is what worries me. And if it doesn't work, that will feed the conspiracy theories. 

The programme was Newscast, dated 7 January, available on BBC Sounds.  She said that to vaccinate 1,000 front-line NHS workers on New Years Day took 4 medics to prepare the vaccine and 12 to administer it. They were told that, once diluted, the vaccine 'doesn't walk', so presumably they couldn't even separate the preparation into a separate  quiet room. She said that they joked it was like defusing a bomb.

@Wheres Toto is the Moderna less fragile? It's also MRNA. The issue with the Pfizer is that the active element has a lipid coat that, if damaged, inactivates the vaccine. The UK has only just approved the Moderna and the government hasn't bought big supplies. I'm likely to get the Oxford vaccine sometime next summer, with luck.

According to this article the lipid coat for Moderna's vaccine is more stable, but the details are proprietary:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/11/moderna-edges-pfizer-coronavirus-efficacy-and-refrigeration/

[Wheres Toto]

5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

This is what worries me. And if it doesn't work, that will feed the conspiracy theories. 

The programme was Newscast, dated 7 January, available on BBC Sounds.  She said that to vaccinate 1,000 front-line NHS workers on New Years Day took 4 medics to prepare the vaccine and 12 to administer it. They were told that, once diluted, the vaccine 'doesn't walk', so presumably they couldn't even separate the preparation into a separate  quiet room. She said that they joked it was like defusing a bomb.

@Wheres Toto is the Moderna less fragile? It's also MRNA. The issue with the Pfizer is that the active element has a lipid coat that, if damaged, inactivates the vaccine. The UK has only just approved the Moderna and the government hasn't bought big supplies. I'm likely to get the Oxford vaccine sometime next summer, with luck.

As Maize said, I've heard that the Moderna is less fragile.  It also doesn't require the super cold temperatures that the Pfizer one does (which according to dh who is a pharmaceutical chemist, is pretty much unheard of before now.)

[sassenach]

Pfizer is going to be out-competed by Moderna in the long run. The storage/transport issues and fragility are just way too cumbersome. 

[BeachGal]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:50 AM, Thatboyofmine said:

Y'all, please forgive me, but I can't read this whole thread right now (migraine meds have me loopy), so if this has been covered, I'm sorry! 
 

1.  Is this vaccine supposed to be a yearly thing, like the flu shot?  
 

2. Also, is it like the flu shot, where it doesn't necessarily keep you from getting it, but it is supposed to keep it from being a severe case?

3. Ds19 is type one diabetic.   Some people say diabetics are first lines, while some say it's type 2 diabetics.  Anyone know?  

1. Not likely yearly. They will continue to measure and study memory cells to see how many are produced, etc. If necessary (but not likely), they could give a third dose.

2. Yes, from what we’ve seen in the available vaccines so far. Infected people might have mild symptoms or none at all.

3. The roll out is messy. Maybe being the squeaky wheel would get your son in before others.

Edited January 9, 2021 by BeachGal

[BeachGal]

1 hour ago, sassenach said:

Pfizer is going to be out-competed by Moderna in the long run. The storage/transport issues and fragility are just way too cumbersome. 

Iirc, Pfizer is creating the same vaccine which doesn't require the extreme refrigeration.

[sassenach]

49 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Iirc, Pfizer is creating the same vaccine which doesn't require the extreme refrigeration.

As a business move, I think it's necessary.

I was a little nervous about the mRNA technology at first but now I'm pretty excited about the simplicity and adaptability of it. I think this will be an important tool for humanity.

[hopeallgoeswell]

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/

Thanks

i was also concerned about the “Covid like symptoms” section but I think someone (not a number?) mentioned that this would capture all colds and flus.  I was trying to find where the tests were done to compare background Covid rates but didn’t get anywhere with that.  
 

i think a part of me has this whole “too good to be true” feeling about it.  But I guess the next few months will tell us a lot.

I hope of course that efficacy rates do stand up to scrutiny but I’m glad scrutiny is happening because the last thing we need is premature relaxation of control measures based on a false idea about the efficacy of the vaccine

Edited January 11, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

On 1/3/2021 at 4:20 AM, Thatboyofmine said:

Y'all, please forgive me, but I can't read this whole thread right now (migraine meds have me loopy), so if this has been covered, I'm sorry! 
 

1.  Is this vaccine supposed to be a yearly thing, like the flu shot?  
 

2. Also, is it like the flu shot, where it doesn't necessarily keep you from getting it, but it is supposed to keep it from being a severe case?

3. Ds19 is type one diabetic.   Some people say diabetics are first lines, while some say it's type 2 diabetics.  Anyone know?  

https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/11/for-people-with-type-1-diabetes-cdc-guidelines-for-covid-19-vaccine-priority-are-puzzling/?utm_content=bufferf494a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_organic
 

sadly looks like type 2 only from this?

[Ausmumof3]

Reuters : Pfizer’s partner BioNTech boosted the 2021 delivery target for their COVID-19 vaccine to 2 billion doses, up from 1.3 billion previously reut.rs/35uhP2C

[Pam in CT]

NY state opened up appointments for all seniors aged 75+ started today. In my area at least, NY City is a bit further along in terms of having sites, staff and appointment portals than outer areas in Westchester County (the first ring of suburbs as you head north).  My FIL, his wife, and two more extended family relatives all got appointments lined up within the next few days (thanks to my tireless sister-in-law who spent most of last night and this morning constantly refreshing and calling); and my Westchester-based aunt and uncle -- who were unable to get anything in their suburban circle -- managed (with same blessed SIL's aid; she's basically operating an octogenarians' technological aid society) to get appointments for next week at a Bronx clinic which is only 40 minutes from their house -- they are HAPPY to drive a bit farther to get it sooner rather than later.

FIL and wife had their first shots today: sore arm, nothing more.

I am SO GLAD that they're getting it. I feel like it's the first truly concrete step toward "better" in sooooooo long.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-sinovac-idUKKBN29G2MV?taid=5ffd45715dad480001ae0cf4&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

 

Sinovac vaccine less than 60pc effective 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Just had a call with my local doctor, who was puzzled about why I'd been told to go into the surgery even though I'm in the last category currently being served with vaccine (under-50 adult with no conditions resulting in unusual vulnerability to COVID). Turned out it was for a "low-urgency follow-up" that had been delayed for so long that everyone, including me, had forgotten I was supposed to be doing it.

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-sinovac-idUKKBN29G2MV?taid=5ffd45715dad480001ae0cf4&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

 

Sinovac vaccine less than 60pc effective 

That's a shame. I hadn't heard a lot about the Sinovac vaccine, but it's a;ways a pity when a vaccine is not as successful as hoped by its manufacturers.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia
Responding to Ausmomof3

[Not_a_Number]

13 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

NY state opened up appointments for all seniors aged 75+ started today. In my area at least, NY City is a bit further along in terms of having sites, staff and appointment portals than outer areas in Westchester County (the first ring of suburbs as you head north).  My FIL, his wife, and two more extended family relatives all got appointments lined up within the next few days (thanks to my tireless sister-in-law who spent most of last night and this morning constantly refreshing and calling); and my Westchester-based aunt and uncle -- who were unable to get anything in their suburban circle -- managed (with same blessed SIL's aid; she's basically operating an octogenarians' technological aid society) to get appointments for next week at a Bronx clinic which is only 40 minutes from their house -- they are HAPPY to drive a bit farther to get it sooner rather than later.

FIL and wife had their first shots today: sore arm, nothing more.

I am SO GLAD that they're getting it. I feel like it's the first truly concrete step toward "better" in sooooooo long.

We also saw that they opened things up to in-person college instructors... which is not DH (he's teaching on Zoom) but it may be at some point. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

I have been in this no man's land regarding getting the vaccine.  I'm a student doing clinicals in a hospital in a high community spread area, where I am required to spend 30+ minutes in close contact with each patient.  Even though I don't work with known COVID or PUI patients, I do deal with emergency room patients and outpatients who may be asymptomatic.  Fortunately, our hospital has adequate PPE and we are encouraged to treat everyone as capable of spreading COVID.  

Our county created a website and said that health care providers would be able to get it through the county, but it was confusing and made it look like the sign up was still in development.  But it encouraged you to sign up for their email updates.  It took me a couple of weeks to find out that they were using this sign up to send out links to small batches health care providers to make an appointment  - they would send them out to small groups of people from their list as they opened up appointments.  If I had known this earlier, I would have signed up for the updates earlier.   I only found out about this because a classmate had a family member get one of these emails. 

Also, even though the CDC says that students working in health care should be eligible for the vaccine, the documentation required by the county would have made that impossible.  The hospital where I'm doing clinicals does not give badges to students (and we obviously wouldn't have a pay stub.)  

I found out yesterday that, after getting some pushback from our college, the county will accept my college student ID and documentation that I am enrolled in a clinicals course.  The same day, I found out that my hospital is planning on vaccinating students within the next couple of weeks.  I am so relieved that I will be able to get a vaccine.  

I know it will be a long time before we will have enough people vaccinated that we can get back to "normal."  

[popmom]

3 hours ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

I have been in this no man's land regarding getting the vaccine.  I'm a student doing clinicals in a hospital in a high community spread area, where I am required to spend 30+ minutes in close contact with each patient.  Even though I don't work with known COVID or PUI patients, I do deal with emergency room patients and outpatients who may be asymptomatic.  Fortunately, our hospital has adequate PPE and we are encouraged to treat everyone as capable of spreading COVID.  

Our county created a website and said that health care providers would be able to get it through the county, but it was confusing and made it look like the sign up was still in development.  But it encouraged you to sign up for their email updates.  It took me a couple of weeks to find out that they were using this sign up to send out links to small batches health care providers to make an appointment  - they would send them out to small groups of people from their list as they opened up appointments.  If I had known this earlier, I would have signed up for the updates earlier.   I only found out about this because a classmate had a family member get one of these emails. 

Also, even though the CDC says that students working in health care should be eligible for the vaccine, the documentation required by the county would have made that impossible.  The hospital where I'm doing clinicals does not give badges to students (and we obviously wouldn't have a pay stub.)  

I found out yesterday that, after getting some pushback from our college, the county will accept my college student ID and documentation that I am enrolled in a clinicals course.  The same day, I found out that my hospital is planning on vaccinating students within the next couple of weeks.  I am so relieved that I will be able to get a vaccine.  

I know it will be a long time before we will have enough people vaccinated that we can get back to "normal."  

That does sound very complicated. My dd’s university received their own supply and is currently vaccinating all staff and students working in a health care setting. My dd is an AuD student, and she got the shot this morning. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/seattle-fire-will-go-door-to-door-with-coronavirus-vaccines-to-adult-family-homes/?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
 

Seattle are setting up a door to door programme to “adult family homes” with fire department paramedics with Moderna vaccine.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Corraleno]

That "vaccine reserve" that the administration recently announced they would immediately release to the states? It. does. not. exist. There is no reserve!

My state had just successfully ramped up their vaccine program and hit their target of 12,000 shots/day, some of the largest healthcare systems in the state had agreed to pool their doses and set up a large, efficient, and well coordinated program, and the governor had announced that over-65s could start getting the vaccine within 2 weeks. Now they find out they will not be getting any additional doses — and in many cases, state officials only found out from the media, because no one in the administration bothered to tell them.

WASHINGTON — When Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar announced this week that the federal government would begin releasing coronavirus vaccine doses held in reserve for second shots, no such reserve existed, according to state and federal officials briefed on distribution plans. The Trump administration had already begun shipping out what was available beginning at the end of December, taking second doses directly off the manufacturing line. 

Now, health officials across the country who had anticipated their extremely limited vaccine supply as much as doubling beginning next week are confronting the reality that their allocations will not immediately increase, dashing hopes of dramatically expanding eligibility for millions of elderly people and those with high-risk medical conditions. Health officials in some cities and states were informed in recent days about the reality of the situation, while others are still in the dark.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccine-no-reserves-expanded-distribution-20210115.html

 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by emzhengjiu
political comment removed

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That "vaccine reserve" that the administration recently announced they would immediately release to the states? It. does. not. exist. There is no reserve!

You've got to be ****ing me. I can't even believe it. That must mean that people planned for nonexistent second doses, and that some people won't be able to follow the correct protocol due to the inability to plan for this. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[popmom]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

You've got to be ****ing me. I can't even believe it. That must people that people planned for nonexistent second doses, and that some people won't be able to follow the correct protocol due to the inability to plan for this. 

Only about a third of the doses that have been shipped out to the states have been administered. There should be plenty to make sure protocol is followed for those who have received the first dose.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, popmom said:

Only about a third of the doses that have been shipped out to the states have been administered. There should be plenty to make sure protocol is followed for those who have received the first dose.

And how many more people have appointments for the first dose? Has any planning been done on the assumption that there ARE second doses? How many people are now going to have to be refused? 

Also, there are states who have used more than half their doses. It's only "about a third" on average. 

[Amy in NH]

25 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

WASHINGTON — When Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar announced this week that the federal government would begin releasing coronavirus vaccine doses held in reserve for second shots, no such reserve existed, according to state and federal officials briefed on distribution plans. The Trump administration had already begun shipping out what was available beginning at the end of December, taking second doses directly off the manufacturing line. 

Now, health officials across the country who had anticipated their extremely limited vaccine supply as much as doubling beginning next week are confronting the reality that their allocations will not immediately increase, dashing hopes of dramatically expanding eligibility for millions of elderly people and those with high-risk medical conditions. Health officials in some cities and states were informed in recent days about the reality of the situation, while others are still in the dark.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccine-no-reserves-expanded-distribution-20210115.html

 

 

Where is the ANGRY emoji?

[popmom]

Fortunately, the mRNA vaccines can be produced at a much faster rate than traditional vaccines. I haven’t heard anything recently that would suggest that both Moderna and Pfizer can’t continue to keep production up. Moderna alone is able to produce 800,000 doses a day at its Switzerland facility.

Edited January 15, 2021 by popmom

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, popmom said:

Fortunately, the mRNA vaccines can be produced at a much faster rate than traditional vaccines. I haven’t heard anything recently that would suggest that both Moderna and Pfizer can’t continue to keep production up. Moderna alone is able to produce 800,000 doses a day at its Switzerland facility.

I'm sure they are producing a ton. Have other countries bought them already, though? 

[popmom]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm sure they are producing a ton. Have other countries bought them already, though? 

I’m sure they are, and I don’t know how the manufacturers are doling them out, but we also hopefully have a couple more manufacturers coming online soon, too. Isn’t Johnson & Johnson close? And it’s ONE dose! 

Also, why have some states given more than half their doses? Is this mismanagement at the state level? Was there a really good reason? 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by popmom

[Corraleno]

21 minutes ago, popmom said:

Also, why have some states given more than half their doses? Is this mismanagement at the state level? Was there a really good reason? 

The "really good reason" was that the administration told states that they were keeping the second doses in reserve, to be released to states as the second shots were due! States were never expected to hold back half their doses.

Then Alex Azar announced that they were going to release the reserve, to allow those doses to be used for first shots, in anticipation of having enough ongoing supply for the second shots in the future, and he also insisted that states expand their programs to include everyone 65 and over. My state, along with many others, did exactly what Azar said they should do — only to discover that there is no reserve and the planned expansion cannot occur because they will not get enough doses to start vaccinating everyone over 65.

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Then Alex Azar announced that they were going to release the reserve, to allow those doses to be used for first shots, in anticipation of having enough ongoing supply for the second shots in the future, and he also insisted that states expand their programs to include everyone 65 and over. My state, along with many others, did exactly what Azar said they should do — only to discover that there is no reserve and the planned expansion cannot occur because they will not get enough doses to start vaccinating everyone over 65.

Yeah, my state also JUST expanded eligibility. This is a mess. 

[Corraleno]

43 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm sure they are producing a ton. Have other countries bought them already, though? 

The administration repeatedly turned down the chance to order additional doses from Pfizer, so Pfizer sold them to other countries. The administration finally ordered more a few weeks ago, but those will not be delivered until June/July.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Corraleno said:

The administration repeatedly turned down the chance to order additional doses from Pfizer, so Pfizer sold them to other countries. The administration finally ordered more a few weeks ago, but those will not be delivered until June/July.

Yes, that's what I remember. Someone screwed up and forgot to order more is what I vaguely remember reading. 

[popmom]

34 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, that's what I remember. Someone screwed up and forgot to order more is what I vaguely remember reading. 

Yikes. Hopefully something can be done in the mean time to make sure the states that have used more than half can acquire more of the vaccine. 

[popmom]

I saw a graphic yesterday. It showed how many total vaccines have been given over time (by week, I think) and it color coded the percentage by manufacturer. It was interesting that of course in the beginning it was all/mostly Pfizer, but as time passed, the majority of vaccines being administered are Moderna. Hopefully, Moderna shipments will allow many states to continue to make the vaccine more widely available until the next batch of Pfizer comes in. I can’t find anything on a Moderna order or timeline for distribution.

Edited January 15, 2021 by popmom

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage
 

Norway is advising care when vaccinating frail people over 80.  Several deaths occurred shortly after vaccination.  While it’s not unexpected to have some deaths in that age group it’s thought that for some adverse events from the vaccine like gastro effects etc may have contributed to their death 

[popmom]

“The additional doses ordered today provide for continuous delivery through the end of June.”

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/12/11/trump-administration-purchases-additional-100-million-doses-covid-19-investigational-vaccine-moderna.html

Lets hope this holds up.

ETA

According to this from CNN “The bottom line, Plescia said, is vaccine will remain scare for at least a few more weeks.“

So it doesn’t sound like we are completely at the mercy of Pfizer and waiting until June for their shipment. I’m praying there is enough left of the Pfizer to complete the second shot protocol.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-01-15-21/h_700d1390e79ef2a34f3d30ccf0fb4dd3

Edited January 15, 2021 by popmom

[Corraleno]

These are the deadlines for vaccine delivery according to the current contracts the US has with Pfizer and Moderna. Note that we are only guaranteed to have enough for 60 million people (2 doses) by the end of March. Hopefully Moderna will be able to deliver additional vaccine before their June deadline, but I have read that the additional doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for the order that was placed on December 23rd) won't be delivered until May/June/July, after they have fulfilled contracts with other countries who placed earlier orders.

ETA: Johnson & Johnson does not even have data yet, will not be ready to apply for  approval until sometime next month, and have said they are behind schedule with manufacturing and will "hopefully" be able to ship vaccines sometime in March. 
 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Corraleno

[Not_a_Number]

42 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage
 

Norway is advising care when vaccinating frail people over 80.  Several deaths occurred shortly after vaccination.  While it’s not unexpected to have some deaths in that age group it’s thought that for some adverse events from the vaccine like gastro effects etc may have contributed to their death 

This doesn't provide enough info to evaluate anything, lol. Like, I'd like to know the RATE of people dying after being vaccinated, compare to the NORMAL rate. 

[Corraleno]

Also, although nearly everyone refers to the J&J vaccine as a "single dose" vaccine, they are actually trialling both a 1-dose protocol and a 2-dose protocol. In the phase 2 trials they found that a 2nd dose significantly boosted immune response, and there are suggestions that older people in particular may need a 2nd dose to really be protected. 

[RootAnn]

19 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Then Alex Azar announced that they were going to release the reserve, to allow those doses to be used for first shots, in anticipation of having enough ongoing supply for the second shots in the future, and he also insisted that states expand their programs to include everyone 65 and over. My state, along with many others, did exactly what Azar said they should do — only to discover that there is no reserve and the planned expansion cannot occur because they will not get enough doses to start vaccinating everyone over 65.

I think communication has been extremely poor, but that there will be criticism no matter what. I remember there was criticism that the federal government was going to keep back half the shots (plus a small reserve) because the thinking went that more shots in arms early was more important than ensuring there would be enough exactly at the 21/28 day time for 2nd shots. The idea was more shipments would come in by the time 2nd shots were due. It sounds like the federal government opened up more ordering ability by the states before they publicly announced they'd already shipped some of the stuff they had left of the initial supplies. The stories by different people are so confusing--are there enough shots? Is there a reserve? Are more deliveries coming in from both manufacturers? Will they be on time? Will there be enough of each? I've seen three statements with three different answers.

It looks like North Dakota, South Dakota, and West Virginia are the states most in danger of not having 2nd doses for their current round of recipients since they have used 60+% of the doses they've received. Most of them are small population states, so I'm not too worried about them (being that they don't need a ton of doses for 2nd rounds). Texas, on the other hand, will need a huge influx to cover their later 1st doses (that they just gave).

All I know is that some states are doing a good job getting shots in arms and that some amount of doses are being tossed because they can't use them before the expiration. (There have only been a few reports of the latter, but I have seen them. I think it will come out later that there has been more wastage than is clear right now. I think there is fear that anger at the trashing of unused doses would lead to those places & people being in physical danger so there hasn't been too much coverage yet.)

I'm unsure how the expansion that the incoming administration has announced will occur without vaccine being available, so ... hopefully they know there is more, a lot more, available soon.

[sassenach]

On 1/12/2021 at 10:12 AM, dirty ethel rackham said:

I have been in this no man's land regarding getting the vaccine.  I'm a student doing clinicals in a hospital in a high community spread area, where I am required to spend 30+ minutes in close contact with each patient.  Even though I don't work with known COVID or PUI patients, I do deal with emergency room patients and outpatients who may be asymptomatic.  Fortunately, our hospital has adequate PPE and we are encouraged to treat everyone as capable of spreading COVID.  

Our county created a website and said that health care providers would be able to get it through the county, but it was confusing and made it look like the sign up was still in development.  But it encouraged you to sign up for their email updates.  It took me a couple of weeks to find out that they were using this sign up to send out links to small batches health care providers to make an appointment  - they would send them out to small groups of people from their list as they opened up appointments.  If I had known this earlier, I would have signed up for the updates earlier.   I only found out about this because a classmate had a family member get one of these emails. 

Also, even though the CDC says that students working in health care should be eligible for the vaccine, the documentation required by the county would have made that impossible.  The hospital where I'm doing clinicals does not give badges to students (and we obviously wouldn't have a pay stub.)  

I found out yesterday that, after getting some pushback from our college, the county will accept my college student ID and documentation that I am enrolled in a clinicals course.  The same day, I found out that my hospital is planning on vaccinating students within the next couple of weeks.  I am so relieved that I will be able to get a vaccine.  

I know it will be a long time before we will have enough people vaccinated that we can get back to "normal."  

We've had the same fight here, except our students are spread out across about 6 different counties and each county is doing it differently. It seems like the most consistent route has been for people to contact their primary care providers, but people are getting it however they can. I logged onto a county zoom and harassed our health officer in the chat box about it. He ignored me in the zoom but my county updated the website the next day to include students in healthcare. It's been a huge oversight, for sure.

[Not_a_Number]

55 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I think communication has been extremely poor, but that there will be criticism no matter what.

Sure, there'll be criticism no matter what, because as always, everyone has an opinion 😛 . However, saying there are reserves and then saying "whoops, there aren't" isn't good management...