surviving puberty with an already-difficult tween boy

[caedmyn]

My almost 12 yo seems to be in the beginning stages of puberty.  He has always been a very difficult kid—willful, impulsive, and emotional.  Now it seems that he spends part of each day either crying because life is so unfair (because I didn’t let him do something he wanted to do or he had a consequence for being defiant to me or nasty to his siblings), or stomping around being nasty to everyone.  If he gets what he wants and his siblings are as nice as he thinks they should be to him, he’s fine.  If not, he’s pretty unpleasant to be around.  I don’t see this improving any time soon.  How do you survive puberty with a really difficult kid?

[*Jessica*]

Does sending him to his room work?  If it does, I would suggest sending him to his room every time he gets nasty.  It’s not fair to the rest of you to have to put up with that kind of attitude all of the time.  Hopefully he will get tired of being alone and realize he needs to adjust the attitude on his own. However, hormones are hard to deal with, so I would also try really hard to give him more one-on-one time with me and/or Dad.  
 

Also, lots of chocolate and/or alcohol for you!

[theelfqueen]

Shower, sandwich, nap.

Seriously. 

[fairfarmhand]

I could write a book on this topic. Read the Explosive Child Ross Greene and implement the strategies ASAP. This was the most helpful thing for my hard kid. Also, if he's that emotionally torn up, he needs to maybe start going to bed a little earlier. Don't underestimate the amount of sleep that growing boys need.

Have a standard response for emotional drama (Go to your room until you can talk to me without the emotional spewing.) 

Lots of time outside working hard. My 12 yo weed eats the whole yard (Ours is huge so he has to do about 15-20 minutes a day with a lightweight electric weed eater that we bought especially for him) Takes the dogs out for walks, and takes tae kwon do every day. The hard physical work improves his mood quite a bit.

Also, spend one on one time every day just having positive interactions with him. Set up parameters for this time. "I want to spend time with you but I want it to be pleasant, so no griping and complaining. Tell me about your Minecraft project (or whatever other thing he loves)" Take a walk with him, ride bikes, let him ride to the store with you...it's so important with the hard kids to have some positive interactions. Acknowledge his good points and the things he's doing right. (I know. Some days, you'll have to dig deep to get here.) Ask for hugs from him, ask for help with "manly tasks". My dh has assigned my son jobs like emptying mousetraps and other yucky hard things because he wants my son to take care of his wife when he grows up. I brag on my son big time when he spares me these things. 

My son is not as hard as my dd was at that age. She was really really unpleasant from the ages of 11-15 in particular.  

[PinkTulip]

13 minutes ago, theelfqueen said:

Shower, sandwich, nap.

Seriously. 

So much this! 
 

(I’m a mom of 4 boys who is now on the other side and survived - youngest is 17). 
 

Also, boys are like dogs in that they need serious exercise every day. My boys were / are swimmers and runners. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by PinkTulip
Added exercise

[Tanaqui]

39 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

My almost 12 yo seems to be in the beginning stages of puberty.  He has always been a very difficult kid—willful, impulsive, and emotional.  Now it seems that he spends part of each day either crying because life is so unfair (because I didn’t let him do something he wanted to do or he had a consequence for being defiant to me or nasty to his siblings), or stomping around being nasty to everyone.  If he gets what he wants and his siblings are as nice as he thinks they should be to him, he’s fine.  If not, he’s pretty unpleasant to be around.  I don’t see this improving any time soon.  How do you survive puberty with a really difficult kid?

 

Adolescents are a lot like toddlers, just bigger and more verbal. Usually they need a nap and a snack - and sometimes a hug, though they're loathe to admit it.

However, with that said, there's always the possibility that counseling will help either you or your kid or both. I know I suggest it a lot.

[fairfarmhand]

Also, use caution about assigning nefarious motives to behavior. This instantly puts kids on the defensive. What I mean is rather than "I can't believe you'd be so selfish!" say, "Can you turn this around and try to look at it from your sister's point of view?." 

 

Kids are often self centered, and they have to outgrow it. Turning things into a deficit of character vs. emotional immaturity just blows things up out of proportion.

They don't make messes and act mouthy because they're trying to punish you. They're just immature. 

And 12 yos need a million reminders about chores, schoolwork, how to act. whatever. They become real space cadets for awhile, so you (or I 🙂 ) can't take it personally when they forget stuff or ask dumb questions or don't do a good job on a chore they could do perfectly two months ago. (I have a 12 yo boy too. They're hard!)

[freesia]

All of the above.  It took me forever to realize that my first ds’s daily meltdowns at 14 we’re bc of hunger. But he was so wound up, he wouldn’t eat when I suggested it. So I would open a protein bar, put it in front of him and walk away. It was like magic. 

The other thing that has worked with both my sons is to look them in the eye and say gently,”I am not the enemy.”

Edited September 23, 2020 by freesia

[ScoutTN]

No answers, but you are not alone. We are struggling through this too. 

[gardenmom5]

is he neurodiverse?  your description reminds me of one of mine - who wasn't diagnosed ND until adulthood.  puberty does make it worse.   (for both of my neurodiverse kids puberty was horrible.)

Things that have helped:

reducing stress

   exercise, yoga (yes, guys do yoga.  you can get very ripped doing yoga), M/A, etc.

good stress support (dudeling does an ashwagandha/bacopa monnerii cocktail. huge difference.)

more sleep

[Storygirl]

Your description reminds me of one of my kids, and I'm not going to lie -- parenting well was not enough. Medication for ADHD, then later additional medication for anxiety made a difference. It doesn't magically change everything, but it makes my child less impulsive and more willing to listen and less eager to cause disruptions, which makes a huge difference. Plus we do counseling, which in theory could be effective, but I'm not sure it helps much in our particular case, because my son does not participate well with it.

I know that some families won't consider medication, which is their choice. I'm only sharing what has helped here, in addition to consistent, constant, tiring parenting. My son is also helped tremendously by having time to pursue his musical passion, which includes money spent on lots of lessons and instruments. If you can find something that your son is interested in and encourage it, it can offer a positive outlet for him.

Emphasize anything positive that you can, so that he doesn't always hear negative things from parents. This is hard one that we are constantly working on ourselves.

[regentrude]

Lots and lots of physical activity. They need WAY more physical exertion than we think or is built into most modern lives.

And food. More food than you can imagine possible. Being hangry is a thing. A timely feeding has averted much misery.

[jen3kids]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I could write a book on this topic. Read the Explosive Child Ross Greene and implement the strategies ASAP. This was the most helpful thing for my hard kid. Also, if he's that emotionally torn up, he needs to maybe start going to bed a little earlier. Don't underestimate the amount of sleep that growing boys need.

Have a standard response for emotional drama (Go to your room until you can talk to me without the emotional spewing.) 

Lots of time outside working hard. My 12 yo weed eats the whole yard (Ours is huge so he has to do about 15-20 minutes a day with a lightweight electric weed eater that we bought especially for him) Takes the dogs out for walks, and takes tae kwon do every day. The hard physical work improves his mood quite a bit.

Also, spend one on one time every day just having positive interactions with him. Set up parameters for this time. "I want to spend time with you but I want it to be pleasant, so no griping and complaining. Tell me about your Minecraft project (or whatever other thing he loves)" Take a walk with him, ride bikes, let him ride to the store with you...it's so important with the hard kids to have some positive interactions. Acknowledge his good points and the things he's doing right. (I know. Some days, you'll have to dig deep to get here.) Ask for hugs from him, ask for help with "manly tasks". My dh has assigned my son jobs like emptying mousetraps and other yucky hard things because he wants my son to take care of his wife when he grows up. I brag on my son big time when he spares me these things. 

 

 

My oldest was, by far, my most challenging in terms of behaviour as a teen.  Dh and I joked, "If T isn't happy, nobody is happy!"  I really regret it was like that.  In retrospect he needed us more than we realized.   And he needed meaningful work.  The few times we went on hikes and he was able to lead, he was amazing!  He needed responsibility - real responsibility, not made up busy stuff.  Not to say that such things are not useful, but he wanted/needed to do big things and get the intrinsic reward for a job well done.    Love him, talk to him, have positive meaningful conversations with him, get to know him because his interests will be changing and he'll be having a lot of emotions that he's not used to.  

I would also not allow any phone/tablet/computer/smart watch in his bedroom at night - one of my biggest regrets is allowing that.   If they need an alarm to get up, use a regular clock.  

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, jen3kids said:

 

My oldest was, by far, my most challenging in terms of behaviour as a teen.  Dh and I joked, "If T isn't happy, nobody is happy!"  I really regret it was like that.  In retrospect he needed us more than we realized.   And he needed meaningful work.  The few times we went on hikes and he was able to lead, he was amazing!  He needed responsibility - real responsibility, not made up busy stuff.  Not to say that such things are not useful, but he wanted/needed to do big things and get the intrinsic reward for a job well done.    Love him, talk to him, have positive meaningful conversations with him, get to know him because his interests will be changing and he'll be having a lot of emotions that he's not used to.  

I would also not allow any phone/tablet/computer/smart watch in his bedroom at night - one of my biggest regrets is allowing that.   If they need an alarm to get up, use a regular clock.  

Yes, this, too. Limited screen time helps a lot. With my first, there was a definite amount he could handle. And always always in public areas. 

And my second ds definitely needs me more than you might think. I sit down and actively teach him daily. I even read him textbooks he could read himself. I don’t do everything (and outsourcing several classes is definitely part of our success in high school), but I do more than I have with other children because he needs me there ( and no joke, at 15, he sometimes puts his head on my shoulder.). Time and feeling supported make him feel loved and when he feels loved and supported his emotions are more regulated.

[EmilyGF]

20 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Lots and lots of physical activity. They need WAY more physical exertion than we think or is built into most modern lives.

And food. More food than you can imagine possible. Being hangry is a thing. A timely feeding has averted much misery.

With the pandemic and "online" PE, DS15 is biking 12 miles at least three days a week and then hiking 4 miles. He's the happiest I've seen him after one of those bike rides. (His online PE is "go do something for exercise for 60-90 minutes" so he bikes 12-15 miles).

[freesia]

31 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

With the pandemic and "online" PE, DS15 is biking 12 miles at least three days a week and then hiking 4 miles. He's the happiest I've seen him after one of those bike rides. (His online PE is "go do something for exercise for 60-90 minutes" so he bikes 12-15 miles).

Yeah! Ds went on a 25 mile bike ride on day and he was such a delight afterwards. 

I consider a daily two mile run a minimum in my house. 

[ScoutTN]

Mine is so lazy! He does some exercise, but not lots. I wish I knew how to get him motivated to exercise bc I know he would be happier and easier with it. He is massively extroverted with little self-discipline. Exercise by himself is not happening. Dh and I both have physical limitations that prevent our running etc. 

[EmilyGF]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Mine is so lazy! He does some exercise, but not lots. I wish I knew how to get him motivated to exercise bc I know he would be happier and easier with it. He is massively extroverted with little self-discipline. Exercise by himself is not happening. Dh and I both have physical limitations that prevent our running etc. 

Can you walk? I find a walk outdoors mid-afternoon helps, even if it isn't as much as I'd like us to do. Or, could two kids exercise together? My girls (12 and almost-14) like going biking together.

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, freesia said:

All of the above.  It took me forever to realize that my first ds’s daily meltdowns at 14 we’re bc of hunger. But he was so wound up, he wouldn’t eat when I suggested it. So I would open a protein bar, put it in front of him and walk away. It was like magic. 

We started setting alarms to make sure people ate snacks. 

5 hours ago, jen3kids said:

And he needed meaningful work.  The few times we went on hikes and he was able to lead, he was amazing!  He needed responsibility - real responsibility, not made up busy stuff.  Not to say that such things are not useful, but he wanted/needed to do big things and get the intrinsic reward for a job well done. 

I wouldn't have thought of this, but I think this is a big deal for my son. In his case, he's always been that way though, not just as a teen. I will keep an eye on this for #2. Thanks!

[freesia]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Mine is so lazy! He does some exercise, but not lots. I wish I knew how to get him motivated to exercise bc I know he would be happier and easier with it. He is massively extroverted with little self-discipline. Exercise by himself is not happening. Dh and I both have physical limitations that prevent our running etc. 

Fortunately our state requires two PE credits. I just tell them it’s the law.

 

[lovinmyboys]

I asked a similar question once and got the sandwich, shower, nap, exercise advice and I think it is true.

My hard kiddo is younger than 12, but one thing that helps him a lot is drawing and writing. He does lots of venting though making comic strips, art, and “blogging.” That advice may be more kid specific, but I think it really helps him to have an outlet.

[Ausmumof3]

One thing I’ve found is actually 11-12 has been the worst.  Once we hit 13 things got better.  I understand a lot of boys go through a second stage when they are older.  So I guess you may be half way through the worst of it. 
 

also as much as possible without compromising values stay on their side.  

[popmom]

Quote

 

Didn't read all the responses, but I COMPLETELY second the Ross Greene materials. Raising Human Beings is another book to read. Please. The Explosive Child was Life. Changing. for my fam. 🙂 Check out https://www.livesinthebalance.org/

Dropdown menu under "CPS resources": choose "parents and families". Then take "the walking tour". 

Edited September 24, 2020 by popmom

[popmom]

4 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Mine is so lazy! He does some exercise, but not lots. I wish I knew how to get him motivated to exercise bc I know he would be happier and easier with it. He is massively extroverted with little self-discipline. Exercise by himself is not happening. Dh and I both have physical limitations that prevent our running etc. 

You have a teen that is "so lazy"? I think that the vast majority of teens would fall into that category. Especially if you and your husband are unable to be that active yourselves. Surely you can see how unreasonable that would seem to a teenager. Do as I say--not as I do. I mean...I can sympathize-- I need to be more active, and I don't even have the physical limitations! But I'm mindful that I can't demand that my teen do something I'm not willing or able to do myself. It just doesn't fly. Also, kids do well when they can. I would never describe a child as "lazy". I've had those thoughts about every one of my 4 kids at one time or another. Lazy. But you know what? So am I! It's human nature! Problem solve. I LOVE to problem solve, and that's how I treat these things. It's a problem I can solve when I collaborate with my kid. Collaborate. You know what doesn't cure laziness? Labeling someone as lazy and leaving it at that.

Edited September 24, 2020 by popmom

[ScoutTN]

10 hours ago, popmom said:

You have a teen that is "so lazy"? I think that the vast majority of teens would fall into that category. Especially if you and your husband are unable to be that active yourselves. Surely you can see how unreasonable that would seem to a teenager. Do as I say--not as I do. I mean...I can sympathize-- I need to be more active, and I don't even have the physical limitations! But I'm mindful that I can't demand that my teen do something I'm not willing or able to do myself. It just doesn't fly. Also, kids do well when they can. I would never describe a child as "lazy". I've had those thoughts about every one of my 4 kids at one time or another. Lazy. But you know what? So am I! It's human nature! Problem solve. I LOVE to problem solve, and that's how I treat these things. It's a problem I can solve when I collaborate with my kid. Collaborate. You know what doesn't cure laziness? Labeling someone as lazy and leaving it at that.

Thanks, I don't need a lecture. Just posted as a vent, I suppose. Or for creative suggestions. Not your critique. 

He is lazy and lacks diligence in every aspect of life, always has. Though we would never say that to him. Many people who know him in many different contexts have obseved this over the years. 

Fallen human nature tends toward laziness, yes, but not all people fail to counteract that. His sister is consistently diligent. 

We are doing our best. He is in every physically active sport or activity that he is interested in and that we can swing with schedule and budget. Dh and I are active. We walk, hike etc, but cannot do any impact exercise of any kind. I cannot swim or do most yoga. (Ds refuses to do yoga.) Dh can do no resistance or weight training, I can do only a tiny bit, suhc as would be incidental for a young man of Ds' size. We are mid 50's with life-threatening medical issues. 

 

 

[ScoutTN]

15 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

Can you walk? I find a walk outdoors mid-afternoon helps, even if it isn't as much as I'd like us to do. Or, could two kids exercise together? My girls (12 and almost-14) like going biking together.

Yes! almost every day, regardless of the weather. But, sadly, Ds has zero interest in joining me. 
My Dd is a dancer and ds won't do her stuff! He will occasionally walk with her. 
No bikes here bc the neighborhood isn't appropriate and we no where undercover to store them. They rust out under covers in six months. Btdt. I thought about it earlier this year when we had gobs of time to drive to bikable locations, but they were not available for purchase. Maybe supply is better now? I should rethink bikes. 

[popmom]

@ScoutTN I appreciate your response, and I’m sorry for coming across that way. I was recommending Ross Greene, and then failed to apply his ideas/methods to your situation. Big fail. I’m still dealing with issues with my own mom, so the lens that I view parenting through is just different. Not better—I have plenty of shortcomings as a parent. 

Your response was totally justified, and is exactly why I have to avoid lectures and criticism with my own kids. It usually just backfires—just like it did with you. Still learning! Still trying to stay teachable.

Edited September 24, 2020 by popmom

[kiwik]

16 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Thanks, I don't need a lecture. Just posted as a vent, I suppose. Or for creative suggestions. Not your critique. 

He is lazy and lacks diligence in every aspect of life, always has. Though we would never say that to him. Many people who know him in many different contexts have obseved this over the years. 

Fallen human nature tends toward laziness, yes, but not all people fail to counteract that. His sister is consistently diligent. 

We are doing our best. He is in every physically active sport or activity that he is interested in and that we can swing with schedule and budget. Dh and I are active. We walk, hike etc, but cannot do any impact exercise of any kind. I cannot swim or do most yoga. (Ds refuses to do yoga.) Dh can do no resistance or weight training, I can do only a tiny bit, suhc as would be incidental for a young man of Ds' size. We are mid 50's with life-threatening medical issues. 

 

 

One thing the explosive child book emphasizes is kids do well if they can.  It is unlikely he is enjoying is behaviour any more than you - even though it may seem that way.  It is difficult with a child who is wired that way though.

[kiwik]

Do we no longer have the ability to edit?  It may be unhelpful but a friend of mine has an exercycle in the lounge that she encourages her disabled child to use while watching TV.  Would he go for that?

[jen3kids]

2 hours ago, kiwik said:

One thing the explosive child book emphasizes is kids do well if they can.  It is unlikely he is enjoying is behaviour any more than you - even though it may seem that way.  It is difficult with a child who is wired that way though.

This is so true!  It took me years to realize it, but older ds felt horrible about being horrible to the rest of us.  He would get a look that meant 'I shouldn't be doing this', but he couldn't stop himself.   One thing I did was if it was early in the day when the misery began, I would call a 'do-over' morning for the kids.  Everyone would go back to 'bed' and they'd stay for a bit.  I'd ask them to get out on the other side of the bed so they'd have a better day.  Some days, depending on the time and what we had going on, I'd even make a second breakfast for everyone, or we'd put school work aside and head to the park.   No one would mention the nasty behaviour, I'd make sure to give older ds some extra attention or have him help me, and we'd move on with our day.  

Of course, this didn't work every time, but I really wish I had recognized the fact that ds' behaviour was a call for attention (even if he didn't always realize it) when he was younger.

A interesting aside - my brother is 18 months older than me and we fought like crazy when we were kids.  My oldest is just like him - teases for the fun, short-tempered, doesn't talk about feelings/ very gruff at times.   I asked my brother - when you are bugging someone for fun and you realize you have gone too far and the teasing has turned into meanness, why don't you stop?  It is obvious that you've upset the person, even if that wasn't your intention.  I asked about saving face and not apologizing.  My brother said that's exactly what he feels - and he's nearly 52 years old!!  He feels bad about upsetting the person, but didn't realize he had gone too far until it was too late and now he's embarrassed and trying to save face.    If a kid (or adult) doesn't know how to make amends, or apologize, or reset themselves, or know how to deal with their big feelings, they will continue down the path of anger, annoyance, out of control behaviours.  They want to do good; they need the tools.

 

[BlsdMama]

On 9/23/2020 at 11:30 AM, caedmyn said:

My almost 12 yo seems to be in the beginning stages of puberty.  He has always been a very difficult kid—willful, impulsive, and emotional.  Now it seems that he spends part of each day either crying because life is so unfair (because I didn’t let him do something he wanted to do or he had a consequence for being defiant to me or nasty to his siblings), or stomping around being nasty to everyone.  If he gets what he wants and his siblings are as nice as he thinks they should be to him, he’s fine.  If not, he’s pretty unpleasant to be around.  I don’t see this improving any time soon.  How do you survive puberty with a really difficult kid?

After four other older siblings, I’m at a loss. If you figure it out though, lmk. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why people think girls are harder. Meds help mine (a lot) but mornings are dicey until they kick in and evenings are iffy once they wear off. 

[SanDiegoMom]

2 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

After four other older siblings, I’m at a loss. If you figure it out though, lmk. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why people think girls are harder. Meds help mine (a lot) but mornings are dicey until they kick in and evenings are iffy once they wear off. 

I have had one insanely hard girl (undiagnosed adhd) and one hard boy (now 14). His twin sister is a piece of cake.  The other two definitely have/had anxiety and that causes them to either lash out at those around or to turn it all inwards.  Neither which are good.  So we are applying a lot of lessons learned from the first to apply to the second -- 

1. recognizing that the lashing out very often means they are upset at themselves

2. Sleep, food, water, and exercise make everything better

3. They get worse at executive functioning but that usually makes them feel worse about themselves, so it's ok to still be helping them structure their day. 

4. WE have to recognize that at 14 they are trying to find their independence and pushing back on us on lots of things, trying to think for themselves. It can be exhausting, since they seem to fact check us on EVERYTHING, but we try to be patient! Key for me is to invent a chore in a different room to get away and take a breather before I react to them! I know it will settle down and it's partially our fault for our particular dynamics as a family -- we tend to use a lot of sarcasm and humor and they are just trying it on and it inevitably lands wrong because they are new to it.  

 

My son doesn't do sports and honestly that has been the biggest problem, until just recently he started taking PE through the high school.  They require different exercises every day, and then 60 minutes of exercise on Friday.  I NEVER would have been able to get him to do it in homeschooling, he pushed back every single time we tried -- SO much complaining.  Now he might complain some but there is outside accountability so he HAS to do it.  And we talk very often about the connection between exercise and mental health.   

[Reefgazer]

My kid was a middle school nightmare during early puberty.  But hang on, because things will get exponentially better by 9th grade.  All the emotional bullshit and fighting was gone by 9th grade.  8th grade was a nightmare, and then poof!  by the beginning of 9th, it was gone!  I'm not sure why, but it did coincide with when he got heavily and seriously into football, and after that things got better and his schoolwork improved, as well.  He now spends 2-3 hours a day on vigorous exercise outside of football season and 3 hours per day in football season, and I actually think that was the key for him.  Would your son be interested in joining a gym and bodybuilding or training for a marathon?  Something really vigorous. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Reefgazer