What will church look like?

[rebcoola]

After getting more clarification our church decided that drive-in service is not worthwhile for us.   So we won't be meeting until phase 3 when groups of 50 are allowed.  Which is about how many adults we have but we have tons of kids so not sure what they will do.

[Garga]

14 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Part of me is in mourning. Another part of me is hoping that both staff and members will be thinking long and hard about what the church in America has become. We have an opportunity to move away from an entertainment model and focus on excellent personal/small group discipleship, and ways to serve our communities. I like my church, but I do hope things will look different on the other side of this. 

Very well said. 

[73349]

In NC, a couple of pastors sued for the right to reopen (with more than 10 people, indoors) and won. I haven't read details yet, but I bet anybody in health care is going to be horrified.  It does not seem that the judge took singing or hugging into account vs. other activities people do in public buildings.

My pastor today affirmed during worship that we are not doing that, describing reopening without regard to the risk to others as weaponizing the First Amendment and not aligned with living in love for our neighbors. This is the response I expected from my church.

[ktgrok]

I do think some denominations will do more small group meeting, but that won't work as well for liturgical ones. it is going to be interesting, for sure. I'm not seeing anything yet about singing in any of the church responses locally. That will be a deal breaker for me. (not going if there is singing) Especially since in liturgical traditions we can easily have one cantor do the singing apart from everyone. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Today on online church:  "Are you all healthy?"  And everyone started coughing. . . !  (Everyone thought of the same joke at the same time.  It was pretty funny.) 

[Violet Crown]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

When you have received communion in the hand, please step to the side, move your mask

While holding the Host?

[PrincessMommy]

53 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

In NC, a couple of pastors sued for the right to reopen (with more than 10 people, indoors) and won. I haven't read details yet, but I bet anybody in health care is going to be horrified.  It does not seem that the judge took singing or hugging into account vs. other activities people do in public buildings.

My pastor today affirmed during worship that we are not doing that, describing reopening without regard to the risk to others as weaponizing the First Amendment and not aligned with living in love for our neighbors. This is the response I expected from my church.

The reason is because judges are not making health care decisions they are making decisions based on the law.  By law people are allowed to meet together with more participants.  Whether they *should* do it is another matter and I do agree with you about health care workers.   I appreciate what your pastor said too. 

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, Violet Crown said:

While holding the Host?

Yes. My guess is it will be placed in the hand (hand over hand, making a throne for the host, as we were taught as children), and people will be very careful. My concern is more for the children than the adults, as far as dropping it. I think it can be done respectfully though...I mean the priest carries the host in the paten, and our hands are no more or less sacred than that object. 

This will be a bigger issue in the Episcopal church, which still has people kneeling at the altar rail for communion. I guess you could have it placed in your hand, and then wait for the priest to move on to the next person before removing your mask and consuming. As long as they space each person at the rail 6 ft apart. The week before they were shut down by the county I watched the live stream, and even though very few attended (case numbers were already high here) those who did were still shoulder to shoulder at the altar rail!

My son already only receives the host, not the blood, due to celiac and contamination, so that's fairly normal for our family and obviously was the norm in other times. 

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Thanks, Garga. I honestly have been feeling this for quite a while. I personally believe Jesus had a very person-to-person method of discipleship. Yet - especially in larger modern churches - people easily get lost in the crowd. Instead of organic relationships, people are often assigned to smaller community groups, whose leaders then “report” back to leadership, which - TO ME, IMO, PLEASE HOLD YER TOMATOES - just isn’t the same as having a personal relationship with the pastor. . 

This.   I was just mentioning this to a friend.   I switched churches about 7 years ago.  Church has grown exponentially.....which is good, but there is a lack of community.   Despite being there basically every Sunday for the past 7 years, If we never showed up again, I am not sure we would be missed.

I am considering looking for a smaller church where people know each other and kids know the elderly and the elderly know the little ones, etc.  .....a church family.

[silver]

I'm worried about when our state allows church meetings again. We have some covid deniers in the leadership, so I'm sure that masks won't be required and there will be no social distancing and no changes to worship. My husband and I are starting to poke around the websites of neighborhood churches, but we obviously are unable to visit any to see if they'd be a good fit.

[ktgrok]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:22 PM, Seasider too said:

Wow, talk about well said! Thanks for sharing these words. 

 

You know what’s funny? I always sing loudest and most fully when I am alone and singing for an audience of One. Don’t get me wrong, I miss congregational worship, but I don’t think the lack of it will stop me from singing. 

I do understand that those who are truly musically gifted are struggling more with this. Also, those of you in orthodox/liturgical churches face a whole different set of challenges. I pray wisdom for your leadership and your families as you make decisions about how to honor your faith traditions. 

I sing loudest in my car - maybe I'd like a drive up service, lol!

 

[ktgrok]

Another thought, the more I'm reading about the analysis of spread so far, the more it seems that prolonged contact in enclosed spaces is the riskiest thing. Which, hello, is the typical church service. 

I wonder if one way to combat this is to go to shorter services? Like, I know some nondenominational churches have tried super short services, as a way to get in those who have crazy schedules or just won't sit still long enough - thinking single men, etc. Maybe bringing those back? So shorter, and more of them, would reduce how long your contact time is AND reduce how many people you are exposed to, and not add a ton more workload for the pastors, time wise. Just a thought. 

Maybe focus on the prayer part, and very short sermon/message, and then a recorded part to watch online at home?Or semon and prayer together, then singing at home? 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Ktgrok

[SKL]

Our pastor's last sermon talked a lot about face masks.  I suspect it's to get people used to the idea to wearing them in church once they open.

 

[ktgrok]

This is awesome! Someone sent it to me today and it made me smile. 

Necessity is the mother of invention. 

https://apnews.com/37fb584e6347fe1418b3f67b592daf0d?fbclid=IwAR37PE64c4rv78pRUOFzPCLd30Gem_2wG8adX90HgIpsntKBv_5LqTCZ8gY

Here is the Archdiocese of Detroit public Masses were allowed starting today with all parishes required to hold them by Friday, May 29th. The Archdiocese requires no more than 25% of capacity, requires face masks, spacing, and cleaning.  Our parish of record is not starting this week, but our local Latin Mass Association will meet at a seminary chapel this week.  We are a very small group so spacing won’t be a problem.  The Traditional Order in the Archdiocese started today and I hope to attend on the Feast of the Ascension on Thursday.  They have multiplied their Masses to 3 on weekdays and 4 on Sundays at least until all the parishes are open to handle any extra crowds.  Another parish where we attend Trail Life is offering some of their Masses outside -bring your own chair- to up capacity and cut down on cleaning.  
 

The Archdiocese did extend the dispensation of the Sunday Mass obligation to Sunday, September 6, 2020.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Mom2mthj
Typo

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Another thought, the more I'm reading about the analysis of spread so far, the more it seems that prolonged contact in enclosed spaces is the riskiest thing. Which, hello, is the typical church service. 

I wonder if one way to combat this is to go to shorter services? Like, I know some nondenominational churches have tried super short services, as a way to get in those who have crazy schedules or just won't sit still long enough - thinking single men, etc. Maybe bringing those back? So shorter, and more of them, would reduce how long your contact time is AND reduce how many people you are exposed to, and not add a ton more workload for the pastors, time wise. Just a thought. 

Maybe focus on the prayer part, and very short sermon/message, and then a recorded part to watch online at home?Or semon and prayer together, then singing at home? 

One option which hasn’t been popular in Novus Ordo parishes is having a low Mass - no music, fewer “bells and whistles” but they are much shorter.  One priest at our parish of record can say daily mass in 20-25 minutes at 6:05am - at that time of day, he does not include a homily.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Mom2mthj said:

One option which hasn’t been popular in Novus Ordo parishes is having a low Mass - no music, fewer “bells and whistles” but they are much shorter.  One priest at our parish of record can say daily mass in 20-25 minutes at 6:05am - at that time of day, he does not include a homily.

Oh good point!!! I think they do something like that at the early mass sometimes. 

And yes, that would be VERY smart right now. And would allow them to have more services , for better spacing. However, there is a limit on how many masses a priest can say in a day I think....not sure if the Bishop can lift that or if it needs to be the Vatican?

Then publish the sermon online, and in written format via email or even mailed to parishoners for those who don't have email. (anyone else remember back in the day when you could get the homily/sermon on a cassette tape? My childhood episcopal parish did that, for those of us who taught sunday school during the first part of the service)

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Mom2mthj said:

Here is the Archdiocese of Detroit public Masses were allowed starting today with all parishes required to hold them by Friday, May 29th. The Archdiocese requires no more than 25% of capacity, requires face masks, spacing, and cleaning.  Our parish of record is not starting this week, but our local Latin Mass Association will meet at a seminary chapel this week.  We are a very small group so spacing won’t be a problem.  The Traditional Order in the Archdiocese started today and I hope to attend on the Feast of the Ascension on Thursday.  They have multiplied their Masses to 3 on weekdays and 4 on Sundays at least until all the parishes are open to handle any extra crowds.  Another parish where we attend Trail Life is offering some of their Masses outside -bring your own chair- to up capacity and cut down on cleaning.  
 

The Archdiocese did extend the dispensation of the Sunday Mass obligation to Sunday, September 6, 2020.

Wow...requiring them seems a bit much....isn't Detroit still having a lot of cases? 

[Garga]

On 5/18/2020 at 4:12 PM, silver said:

I'm worried about when our state allows church meetings again. We have some covid deniers in the leadership, so I'm sure that masks won't be required and there will be no social distancing and no changes to worship. My husband and I are starting to poke around the websites of neighborhood churches, but we obviously are unable to visit any to see if they'd be a good fit.

You could listen to some sermons, too.  So many churches now have their sermons online.  

18 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Oh good point!!! I think they do something like that at the early mass sometimes. 

And yes, that would be VERY smart right now. And would allow them to have more services , for better spacing. However, there is a limit on how many masses a priest can say in a day I think....not sure if the Bishop can lift that or if it needs to be the Vatican?

Then publish the sermon online, and in written format via email or even mailed to parishoners for those who don't have email. (anyone else remember back in the day when you could get the homily/sermon on a cassette tape? My childhood episcopal parish did that, for those of us who taught sunday school during the first part of the service)

I don’t remember the details, but I believe our archbishop did allow for more masses per day.  The suggestion for more masses came from the Archbishop.

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Wow...requiring them seems a bit much....isn't Detroit still having a lot of cases? 

Statewide it shows Michigan reported 435 new cases and 102 new deaths statewide.  Apparently, many of the new cases are due to expanded testing in jails.  On Sunday the City of Detroit reported no deaths.  
 

I think some of it is if parishes are allowed to decide for themselves then the people will just go to parishes that are open.  That isn’t fair to those priests who are offering Mass, those who are trying to clean between Masses, those trying to maintain social distancing if they have an influx of people from other areas.

[ktgrok]

32 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

Statewide it shows Michigan reported 435 new cases and 102 new deaths statewide.  Apparently, many of the new cases are due to expanded testing in jails.  On Sunday the City of Detroit reported no deaths.  
 

I think some of it is if parishes are allowed to decide for themselves then the people will just go to parishes that are open.  That isn’t fair to those priests who are offering Mass, those who are trying to clean between Masses, those trying to maintain social distancing if they have an influx of people from other areas.

Gotcha. My understanding is most of the cases were in Detroit, so higher than it seems looking at the state numbers, but that was a few weeks ago. 

[silver]

18 hours ago, Garga said:

You could listen to some sermons, too.  So many churches now have their sermons online.  

We've listened to sermons for a few of the churches we've looked at. It certainly helps narrow things down a bit.

[rebcoola]

My seemingly sensible church seems to be jumping on the yay Trump says we can meet bandwagon.  No official word but everyone is posting how happy and excited they are.  We have 10 times the number of cases we are supposed to have to move up a level on our phased approach.  So it's not like our area has no cases.  

[ktgrok]

For those interested, this is the website on how the local Catholic Parish will be opening next week. I'm okay with most of it, but have 3 concerns:

1. He mentions staying home if you have "flu symptoms". Um, hello??? Lots of people get this and have mild symptoms that are not flu bad, or have weird symptoms like diarrhea, conjunctivitis, stomach pain, etc. If you are sick AT ALL you need to stay home! 

2. He doesn't mention staying home if you have a family member who is ill. Which is an issue. 

3. The dispensation is again said to be for those that are in a vulnerable population, or who have flu symptoms. Um..what about those who are not especially likely to get it, but have a family member who is vulnerable, or who they themselves just don't want to get it, as they have to care for young children, etc and don't have time for being in the hospital for weeks, or just plain ill for a month? The dispensation doesn't cover those situations, and therefore leaves a lot of people in a hard place, spiritually. (remember, for a Catholic not attending Mass without a serious, valid reason is a mortal sin)

4. Nothing is mentioned about singing. That's an issue they need to address. 

Edited to add: Spoke with people in the parish and in the actual letter that goes with this, and in his homilies, etc he and the Bishop have said to stay home if there is any illness, not just flu, so in that context, thank goodness. Also, they have been making a point of saying the dispensation is across the board, not just if you are sick or high risk, so even better. And it has been said that music will be "different" and the choir is suspended for the time being, so they are definitely aware of the singing thing. I'm actually really impressed. 

Meanwhile, my Episcopal parish sent out a survey that was....not great. Very much will you come back now, or only when there is a vaccine, which didn't leave much room for nuance. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Ktgrok

[barnwife]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

For those interested, this is the website on how the local Catholic Parish will be opening next week. I'm okay with most of it, but have 3 concerns:

 

Did you check the diocesan/archdiocesan websites for the Catholic parish? I know our diocese, as well as neighboring ones, have all put out guidelines. The only thing I don't like is how singing is addressed. It's all "use familiar hymns" versus a ban on singing/choirs, at least in the dioceses I've checked.

[ScoutTN]

On 5/19/2020 at 1:50 PM, Patty Joanna said:

Reading these posts makes me think that I am probably going to be even sadder once church opens up again.  Loss, loss, loss.  

Ezra. The exiles returning to Israel. They built a new temple and during that first  worship service, the old men who remembered Solomon's temple cried for the glory that was no more. 
 

Eta, But CV-19 will not be forever and we will have glorious worship again, even before we get to have it in eternity, beyond these shadow lands. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by ScoutTN

[ktgrok]

38 minutes ago, barnwife said:

Did you check the diocesan/archdiocesan websites for the Catholic parish? I know our diocese, as well as neighboring ones, have all put out guidelines. The only thing I don't like is how singing is addressed. It's all "use familiar hymns" versus a ban on singing/choirs, at least in the dioceses I've checked.

Just did. This does have people singing..ugh. But I'll see what the local parish does. I did appreciate the messaging though, so very very very much. 

The obligation to attend Mass on Sunday is lifted until further notice. Christ suffers with those who cannot come to Mass during the pandemic. However, as Jesus taught us, suffering can lead to redemption....Our solidarity with those who cannot be physically present is essential during this time. Those who are unable to come to worship and experience the Sacrament offer their experience as a type of fast. “Such fasting, as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI writes, could help people toward a deepening of their personal relation to the Lord in the Sacrament; it could be an act of solidarity with all those who have a yearning for the Sacrament but cannot receive it…Spiritual hunger, like bodily hunger can be a vehicle of love.”

[ktgrok]

Wow, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Central Florida has a great message on face coverings that I honestly did not expect. 

http://www.cfdiocese.org/on-requiring-face-protectors-love-of-neighbor-or-partisan-divide/

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, barnwife said:

Did you check the diocesan/archdiocesan websites for the Catholic parish? I know our diocese, as well as neighboring ones, have all put out guidelines. The only thing I don't like is how singing is addressed. It's all "use familiar hymns" versus a ban on singing/choirs, at least in the dioceses I've checked.

No disrespect meant, but how would the use of familiar hymns make any difference?  It's not like you project less or have less droplets for familiar hymns. . .    Is there a rationale behind this that I can't think of? 

[Terabith]

10 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No disrespect meant, but how would the use of familiar hymns make any difference?  It's not like you project less or have less droplets for familiar hymns. . .    Is there a rationale behind this that I can't think of? 

I think the theory is that people won't use hymnals and that will eliminate a touch point.  Pretty slim argument to me, given the aerosol production from singing.

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No disrespect meant, but how would the use of familiar hymns make any difference?  It's not like you project less or have less droplets for familiar hymns. . .    Is there a rationale behind this that I can't think of? 

It's to avoid using hymnals/hand outs/etc. My Catholic parish is huge and already projects things on the front walls, so not an issue for them, but that's not common in Catholic churches I don't think. I know a lot of non denominational churches do that though. 

I'm definitely waiting to hear about the singing at the Catholic parish, and at the Episcopal one. The Episcopal one has June 7th (I think that was the date....early june) as the possible reopening date, but gave other options as well in the survey. 

I'd LOVE to go to church, and selfishly, it might be nice to go for a while without any kids, all on my own and have them stayhome with DH. But...if there is singing and such? Nope. And on the other side....church without kids...that's sort of heartbreaking all on its own. I've been pretty stoic about the church thing until I thought about that.....some of my favorite moments were when I had to pace the back area of the church with a fussy baby in my arms, and would make eye contact and exchange a knowing smile with all the other moms and dads doing the same thing...by the end of mass the walls of the church were lined with parents with little ones. But given the need to sort of sit where you are told and stay in place, that won't be happening. 

Oh, and the Catholic church is doing online reservations to limit attendance, and will add extra masses at the same time in the parish hall, etc...Episcopal one did not say yet anything about that, but they haven't given details in general and are going to be slower to open up. 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Ktgrok

[RootAnn]

On 5/19/2020 at 3:54 PM, Mom2mthj said:

One option which hasn’t been popular in Novus Ordo parishes is having a low Mass - no music, fewer “bells and whistles” but they are much shorter.  One priest at our parish of record can say daily mass in 20-25 minutes at 6:05am - at that time of day, he does not include a homily.

I wish my local parish did this & also considered at least one outdoor Mass a weekend (weather permitting). They've been back in person for two weekends already - 1 hr 20 min Mass, lots of singing. We have done our own service at home plus watched the live feed both weeks. 

Communion is still allowed -- both in the hand & on the tongue. No masks required (or even requested!). Every other pew. Six foot spacing by household in pews, in line for Communion (alternating sides of the church by pew) & leaving at the end. Households can be shoulder to shoulder at the Communion rail, but the next group will either be all the way on the other side of the church or wait until the first household exits the area.

A dispensation is allowed for anyone who does not feel comfortable attending. That's us. Long sermons & lots of singing is a no for my family if it continues to be inside.

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I wish my local parish did this & also considered at least one outdoor Mass a weekend (weather permitting). They've been back in person for two weekends already - 1 hr 20 min Mass, lots of singing. We have done our own service at home plus watched the live feed both weeks. 

Communion is still allowed -- both in the hand & on the tongue. No masks required (or even requested!). Every other pew. Six foot spacing by household in pews, in line for Communion (alternating sides of the church by pew) & leaving at the end. Households can be shoulder to shoulder at the Communion rail, but the next group will either be all the way on the other side of the church or wait until the first household exits the area.

A dispensation is allowed for anyone who does not feel comfortable attending. That's us. Long sermons & lots of singing is a no for my family if it continues to be inside.

Wow. Not even requesting masks? Feel free to send the letter from my local Bishop to your parish...although not sure how much weight an Episcopal Bishop's opinion will carry. 

I will say, I was disappointed that our local Catholic Bishop refused to have outdoor Masses at all. Although I imagine they could get creative and and have the Mass inside, but speakers or something outdoors if people "happened" to wander outside. 

[barnwife]

10 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

No disrespect meant, but how would the use of familiar hymns make any difference?  It's not like you project less or have less droplets for familiar hymns. . .    Is there a rationale behind this that I can't think of? 

Oh, that's totally what I meant when I said I didn't like how singing is addressed! I would much, much prefer no singing. I'd even take no choirs (especially those in choir lofts). But another pp was right. The familiar hymns are so people don't need hymnals/worship aids. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

48 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

So apparently I'm a Karen. 

Former crazy church that has downplayed the risks of COVID from the beginning had their first public liturgy on Sunday. No rules at all. No limitations on attendance. The priest (who had mentioned during a recent sermon that COVID19 was not riskier than the flu) refused to institute any precautions such as masks and sanitizing the communion spoon. We left a few weeks ago but I checked out the video of Sunday's liturgy and was shocked that it sounded like so many people attended. Our bishops had very clearly directed parishes to follow civil guidelines about social distancing and attendance even if they were not required to do so by local regulations. 

Because I'm a Karen, I emailed the bishop. At first, I was blown off because he didn't understand my concerns because...get this...they weren't supposed to resume public liturgies until next week. Then some lightbulbs went off for him and he thanked me and said the priest "must have misunderstood." 

Then I learn that everything is now shut down at this crazy church for at least a week. The other local church in the jurisdiction resumes liturgy this weekend with very detailed precautions. Masks are required. Attendance is limited. Those are the rules that former crazy church is going to need to follow according to the bishop. My suspicion is that is why there is no liturgy at all this weekend. 

Karens care about their "rights" and about throwing their weight around.  They don't care about other people.  I think that you show great concern for the people in your community. 

[goldenecho]

I've been enjoying the online services from my old church in Texas (we're in California now), but of course I don't want it to be like that forever.

What I'd love to see is churches first open outdoors, weather permitting.   I just feel a bunch of people in a room for an hour sounds like the LAST thing that should open (so no movie theaters either).   But outdoor church sounds better.   Sermon on the mount style...only with good microphones. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by goldenecho

[goldenecho]

21 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I think familiar hymns would be very comforting right now.  What about a recording, something you could sing along to in your head?  Maybe even have the choir do one of those Zoom singalongs and record that so it’s familiar voices and faces too?  I recently went to a Zoom college graduation and the choir performed that way and it was quite nice.
 

Not that I am going back to mass anytime soon.  Our church is doing drive in adoration, I could maybe see doing that with the windows rolled up tight.

What about sign language?   People could certainly sign along with songs, with music playing along.   That could be beautiful actually.    Churches would have to teach the signs, because it can be hard to follow signs just by watching if you're not familiar with them.

(I find signing a song to be a powerful way to sing without words.   I took sign language my first year of college...and our chapel had an interpreter who signed the songs.   Hers wasn't a bland interpretation but a very powerful whole body singing in sign.   I started following along and have occasionally signed along to songs ever since.). 

Edited May 24, 2020 by goldenecho
misspelling

[J-rap]

On 5/17/2020 at 12:47 PM, kand said:

I loved this when I read it last night, and then our sermon today was right in line with this. It included this verse from Isaiah 43:18-19: “Forget the former things;    do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing!” 

So well said by your pastor as well. 

I'm finally catching up with this thread.  I do love this verse!!  Very appropriate for right now.  Thanks!

[vonfirmath]

12 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Eh, a lot of people who get dubbed Karen care about other people, genuinely.  But the other people feel like it’s an overstep, don’t appreciate it, or is generally alarmist.  I’m careful to use the Karen/Becky/Chad labels because I think they can be used to shame and silence people needlessly.  It doesn’t further useful discussions, with @Ordinary Shoes clearly was trying to do 🙂

 

I find the way "Karen" is being used is just another form of "name calling"

I don't know what it started and what purpose it served, but now it's just another name that is used to bully a person into changing their mind/stop talking about <whatever> and has lost all usefulness.

10 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

i guess that if they aren't letting people touch the hymnals, and our archdiocese, which isn't open but has started to put out things about what opening might look like, is instructing parishes to remove prayer books and Bibles too, I'd assume they wouldn't be handing out coloring sheets.  I know when my kids were little, they spent a fair amount of church kneeling on the floor, facing the pew which they used as a table, and I probably wouldn't want them doing that.  More recently my youngest liked to go to the bathroom so he could hang with his friends, which we also wouldn't allow now.  Not that we're going anyway.

I think a little gift of coloring sheets, with a note addressed to the child, might be a great way to make a little feel connected.  Our priest called and talked with DS10 for quite a while today.  I think that connection is so important when they can't be together in person.  

I think the problem isn’t the coloring sheet, but the bag of crayons.  Our parish (NO or TLM) has never done Coloring sheets, but my husband’s church back home does.  They have a clipboard with the sheet (so they have a surface to color on other than the pew) and a pencil case full of used crayons.  I never cared for it even before coronavirus -icky- but I gave in for the occasional visits to church with grandma.  I imagine that isn’t happening now.

I must say Mass today was wonderful - except for the masks - so annoying, but we dealt with it.  I saw one or two without a mask, but everyone else had one,  Basket at the back for the collection, no congregational hymns, every other pew was taped off, we had three professional singers plus the organist for the choir.  Normally people sing the ordinary (Kyrie, Gloria, etc), but they performed a beautiful polyphonic Mass setting so it was very clear not to sing along.  We had 50-60 in a chapel that looked like it has an official capacity of around 500.  The priest has celebrated Easter Vigil for us before, but this time it was at the Polish high school/seminary in town where he lives.  He was a seminarian in Poland during communist rule and tied it in well to today’s gospel.  As I said, everyone was super thankful to be back, and seemed significantly less dangerous than my trips to the grocery store.

[teachermom2834]

Our Catholic diocese is starting up public masses tomorrow. So they will have a week of daily masses to run through before getting to the weekend masses.

Masks are required from the time you get out of your car in the parking lot until you are back in your car. Hand sanitizer to be used at the entrance. Every other pew blocked off and a live stream in the parish gym for overflow. No missals or hymnals available and community singing discouraged. I am imagining just an organist and cantor. For communion the ushers are to insure distancing between family groups. Just before receiving we are to remove mask and sanitize our hands. Replace mask after receiving. Communion only in the hand and no cup. Extra time is being built in between masses to sanitize the church. A dispensation remains in place indefinitely for any reason at all. Our priests are very much encouraging people to feel free to stay home and to turn around and leave if it is too crowded or anything at all makes them feel unsafe. They are also encouraging people to try out the daily masses which are less crowded as an alternative.

In our area the Catholic church is being far more conservative than other denominations. Other churches have been back for awhile and with fewer restrictions. Our bishop seems to be taking it very cautiously.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

Our personal rule has been that once you're preparing for your first communion, then we put those things away, and instead you have to go hide out in the bathroom with your friends when you're bored (OK, maybe that's not one of the more carefully thought out pieces of my parenting)  At home, hiding out in the bathroom doesn't work because, to my youngest child's dismay, we can pause the mass, but we've been letting him do puzzles of things like Notre Dame or stained glass windows.  

That is one of the things I worry about.  How will we keep our tweens and teens connected without those roles that make them feel valued?  I know that Christianity has weathered much bigger challenges than this before, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out, but I certainly don't have a great idea.

Yes, that's about what we do as well...by 2nd grade they are ready to pay attention more. Any any coloring pages are religious ones, that we bring ourselves, so in my head I don't worry too much if they are using them during services, as I figure that's religious art, which is a form of praying, right?

But we bring our own. I have a "mass bag" that has plain sketch pads, religious coloring books (sometimes themed ones for seasons, like easter, christmas), a ziplock baggie of crayons, some pencils, maybe a doll for the 3 yr old, when she was younger a pacifier, sippy cup, and small no mess snack. We use the sketch pads as lap desks. 

 

[PrincessMommy]

I read this article today and thought it was appropriate for this thread. 

Of course, there will be outliers who flaunt the rules - as there is with everything else - but most pastors/priests care about their congregation and care about making church safe for everyone.

https://www.philstout.com/home1/2020/5/23/opening-the-doors

 

[Terabith]

33 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Our experiences while sheltering in place, and this thread, make me aware how ridiculous my policy is for my particular kids (not saying it's ridiculous for you Katie!).  For my oldest, it made perfect sense, but I clearly needed to rethink it two years ago when my youngest made his first communion.  Not surprisingly, my kids are not clones of each other, and there's no doubt that my little one pays more attention, not less when his hands are busy.  If he's getting so little out of the sermon that he's escaping to the bathroom, then I probably need to bring in the strategies we use at home such as letting him draw when listening to a read aloud, or letting him put together a puzzle during the sermon. 

I imagine we won't be back in church for a long time, and obviously puzzles are not the solution.  I also don't want him kneeling on the floor ad turning his back on the altar.  But I'll have some time to think about this.  

Note: this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, other than the fact that puzzles are arguably an even worse choice during covid.  

When my kids were little, the church had little "mass bags" with small toys and lots of moving parts, and honestly, I found those very annoying.   When they were around 5 and 6, we moved to a church that had pads of blank paper and pencils for everyone in the pews.  They were perfect!  I took notes on sermons.  The kids drew pictures, but they weren't fighting over different colored pencils or crayons or a zillion small toys.  I really liked the expectation for everyone to be using their hands during worship but not trying to keep up with tons of moving parts.  

[J-rap]

On 5/22/2020 at 9:50 PM, Ktgrok said:

Wow, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Central Florida has a great message on face coverings that I honestly did not expect. 

http://www.cfdiocese.org/on-requiring-face-protectors-love-of-neighbor-or-partisan-divide/

I heard Bishop Michael Curry (I guess head of the Episcopal Church) give a similar great message on NPR this afternoon.  It was so refreshing to hear!

[ktgrok]

 

On 5/24/2020 at 6:57 PM, Terabith said:

When my kids were little, the church had little "mass bags" with small toys and lots of moving parts, and honestly, I found those very annoying.   When they were around 5 and 6, we moved to a church that had pads of blank paper and pencils for everyone in the pews.  They were perfect!  I took notes on sermons.  The kids drew pictures, but they weren't fighting over different colored pencils or crayons or a zillion small toys.  I really liked the expectation for everyone to be using their hands during worship but not trying to keep up with tons of moving parts.  

My current parish has this! They have the church logo at the top of each page, say "doodle pages" or something on them, and are otherwise blank. 

On 5/24/2020 at 7:18 PM, J-rap said:

I heard Bishop Michael Curry (I guess head of the Episcopal Church) give a similar great message on NPR this afternoon.  It was so refreshing to hear!

I love him! Yes, he is the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the USA. If you didn't see his sermon at the royal wedding, you should give it a listen sometime. So incredibly inspirational as far as loving kindness goes. He has actually a whole program called "the way of love" that is being implemented around the country. 

On 5/24/2020 at 7:19 PM, CuriousMomof3 said:

For my kids, toys as a "keep quiet strategy" never worked, except maybe a lovey to cuddle.  Coloring or drawing work, or puzzles work now, but not toys.  My mother used to bring little gifts to restaurants, such as toy cars, and it always lead to loud "vroom vroom" sounds, and dropping them, and general chaos, even with my oldest who was a good "practice kid" because he's a little calmer and more naturally compliant than my youngest.

Or dropping them into the next pew, or under a pew where it rolls three feet away, etc. 

I thought I was smart bringing board books, but the toddler would "read" them out loud...very out loud. Tried one of those fold up scenes with the magnets on it, but she narrated that too as she played, lol. 

[ktgrok]

My church is letting us pick up pre-sanctified communion! We will pick it up tomorrow, then consume during the livesteam service! I'm ridiculously happy about this. I also am very aware this is a HUGE deal..to have people who are not trained to be transporting/etc. I will be clearing off a shelf in my home tomorrow to make a spot for the body and blood...I have shelf in our main room that has my leather bound bible, my husband's grandmother's book of common prayer from England where she was raised, a few rosaries, and a decorative plate with a picture of the church my husband was baptized at. I think that will be the prefect spot...except I currently also have some pretty tea cups and a set of saki glasses on that shelf too, lol. I will move those elsewhere for the time being. 

HOLY COMMUNION AT HOME

We have "pre-consecrated" bread and wine available for those who will continue to join us in worship  through YouTube available for pick-up at the church office.

 

WHEN TO PICK- UP COMMUNION:

• THURSDAY AND FRIDAY JUNE 11 & 12
• 9AM to 5PM
• Church Office

 

HOW TO STORE COMMUNION PRIOR TO SUNDAY

You should store the sacrament in a respectful place in your home, perhaps placing it in a vessel and then putting it in protected place. Prior to participating in the online worship service Sunday, place the sacrament on a table. Be sure to create a reverent environment perhaps lighting a candle. During the service at the appropriate time during the Great Thanksgiving, you can receive the sacrament and share it with those in your home who are participating with you. Please consume all the elements.

[TCB]

On 5/24/2020 at 5:51 PM, PrincessMommy said:

I read this article today and thought it was appropriate for this thread. 

Of course, there will be outliers who flaunt the rules - as there is with everything else - but most pastors/priests care about their congregation and care about making church safe for everyone.

https://www.philstout.com/home1/2020/5/23/opening-the-doors

 

I can make no judgement on whether our pastor cares about his congregation. I’m assuming he does but is misguided and quite young. Our church is basically completely as normal, the only exception is that you can get a sticker at the door to put on yourself saying if you don’t want to be hugged. They called to say their plans and I think the whole sticker thing is supposed to be comforting. They have even started up the Sunday school class for older, retired people in person.

[ktgrok]

12 hours ago, TCB said:

I can make no judgement on whether our pastor cares about his congregation. I’m assuming he does but is misguided and quite young. Our church is basically completely as normal, the only exception is that you can get a sticker at the door to put on yourself saying if you don’t want to be hugged. They called to say their plans and I think the whole sticker thing is supposed to be comforting. They have even started up the Sunday school class for older, retired people in person.

I think yes, we have to be careful to make judgements on intent when some just have different levels of information. I think a lot of people are well meaning, but less informed right now, or have been given misinformation. 

Pastors don't have a science background, and when even medical experts are scrambling, we are expecting a LOT. 

That said, leadership is part of the job, and so is doing hard things. I'm afraid that some are simply taking the easier route.