Coronavirus question

[SquirrellyMama]

Disclaimer- I know how unlikely this scenario is, but these thoughts cropped up in the middle of the night. Middle of the night thoughts are very hard to get rid of 🙂

I just saw a news story that a coronavirus case has popped up in my parents county. I'm not an alarmist, but I know my father would not survive if he got it. Last year, he was very ill and when he finally went to the doctor they found out he had a very bad case of pneumonia, fluid around his heart, and cirrhosis of the liver. Even though he did recover from the pneumonia, he is still not strong.

Here is my question. If he gets it, do you get to see them? We live halfway across the country. I have tickets to go see them in July so I'll get to visit soon. 

I'm somewhat conflicted about what I would do if he got sick. My mom would have then been exposed so she would be in quarantine, right? I'm wondering if I would be a horrible person if I didn't fly out. 

Again, I know this is highly unlikely. Middle of the night thoughts are so urgent somehow.

Kelly

Edited March 4, 2020 by SquirrellyMama

[Chris in VA]

If he got it, he would be quarantined.  I am not sure how you would see him, unless they gave you a suit/mask etc. I am sorry you are worried. My M&D are in FL and not strong, either. 

[73349]

If people are quarantined, I think if you went to them, you'd be staying, perhaps for several weeks. Video calls might be a more practical option in a lot of cases.

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Disclaimer- I know how unlikely this scenario is, but these thoughts cropped up in the middle of the night. Middle of the night thoughts are very hard to get rid of 🙂

I just saw a news story that a coronavirus case has popped up in my parents county. I'm not an alarmist, but I know my father would not survive if he got it. Last year, he was very ill and when he finally went to the doctor they found out he had a very bad case of pneumonia, fluid around his heart, and cirrhosis of the liver. Even though he did recover from the pneumonia, he is still not strong.

Here is my question. If he gets it, do you get to see them? We live halfway across the country. I have tickets to go see them in July so I'll get to visit soon. 

I'm somewhat conflicted about what I would do if he got sick. My mom would have then been exposed so she would be in quarantine, right? I'm wondering if I would be a horrible person if I didn't fly out. 

Again, I know this is highly unlikely. Middle of the night thoughts are so urgent somehow.

Kelly

((((Hugs)))

[Pawz4me]

My guess is that it's going to be transmitted so quickly, and tests will remain in such short supply, that there will be no more quarantines soon other than whatever an individual/family imposes on themselves. But that's obviously just a guess. Obviously things may be different for someone who is sick enough to be hospitalized. But then it doesn't seem to me to make much sense to quarantine those individuals if it's running rampant among the general public.

[SquirrellyMama]

I guess my real question is "When I tell my mom that I'm not coming to see them if they are exposed, I'm not a horrible person?"

[73349]

No, you are obeying the public health instructions you're hearing, which include practicing excellent hygiene and avoiding contact with people who have been exposed. Surely your mom doesn't want you to be a Typhoid Mary carrying germs all over the place and making people sick.

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I guess my real question is "When I tell my mom that I'm not coming to see them if they are exposed, I'm not a horrible person?"

No. Because you would have to quarantine yourself after that contact, separated from them, for a minimum of two weeks, before setting foot on a plane home. Not practical.

Edited March 4, 2020 by regentrude

[mlktwins]

I have an elderly father that is 10 minutes from me and 93 year old in-laws 15 minutes from me.  If they are quarantined (or we are) we will not be seeing them.  I don't think my in-laws (especially my FIL) would survive this.  He is pretty frail.  My dad is in pretty good health for his age (heart, etc.), but has short term memory issues and balance problems.  He might not do as bad.

No...you are not a horrible person at all!!!  And you would probably be quarantined from your family for that amount of time also.  I love my extended family, but I will not risk my family of 4 (mostly my boys).

But...I would still feel the guilt 😞

I might be able to Face Time my dad, but my in-laws don't have any tech other than their tv and flip phone for emergencies.

[Bambam]

I've thought about this - not for my parents because they are deceased, but for other elderly friends in our area. 

If I go visit or help one who falls ill, that means I may have to separate myself from my family and avoid them - as well as everyone else for 2 weeks - possibly more. That means I can't help my family or anyone else. And I'm not sure I'm willing to do that for non-immediate family members, you know? I'd be happy to deliver food and supplies as I normally do for sick people (put in bag on front porch, ring doorbell, wave as driving away).  But that would be just for people who are local. 

It stinks, but based on what I know now, it is what it is. 

[mlktwins]

I want to add that I do think this scenario could happen 😞. 

[BusyMom5]

I think there are going to be a lot of hard choices this year due to Covid-19.  You are not a terrible daughter, but I'm sure you will feel some guilt.  Feeling guilt for not being there doesn't equal actually being guilty of neglecting them.  I've got 2 grandparents in their 80s- one who has breathing issues.  I don't think we will go see her if she gets it.  I will feel very sad, not being there.   I know that logically the person would expect me to try to keep my family safe- and that's w hff at your parents would want, too!  That doesn't mean they dont want you there- it's just going to be hard.

[Familia]

I’m “head in the sand Betty” over here, and I have a question:  

This seems to be spreading so rapidly. Although, from my limited understanding, not everyone shows any symptoms who has contracted it (so carriers).  Is the rapid spread due to it being so new and no one has immunity?  So...does everyone exposed to it become either sick or a carrier with no symptoms?

Edited March 4, 2020 by Familia

[Carrie12345]

7 minutes ago, Familia said:

I’m “head in the sand Betty” over here, and I have a question:  

This seems to be spreading so rapidly. Although, from my limited understanding, not everyone shows any symptoms who has contracted it (so carriers).  Is the rapid spread due to it being so new and no one has immunity?  So...does everyone exposed to it become either sick or a carrier with no symptoms?

There have been more negative tests than positive tests.

[Paige]

I think either we will be advised to implement aggressive isolation/ social distancing practices now, or it's going to be so widespread in a month or 2 that quarantines will not be practical.

Could you go see your father soon instead of waiting until he gets sick? 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

No, but I would be FaceTiming a lot.

[livetoread]

I have been thinking about this, too, but along even more morbid lines. My parents live close to me, and I see them regularly. My mother is 80 and unlikely to survive this if she gets it for several reasons. I tear up thinking about her dying alone. I know my parents are going to die sometime, maybe in the near future, and I’m okay with that, but somehow the thought of them doing it isolated and alone just breaks me. I am actually in a position where I can self-quarantine if I need to (kids at college and understanding husband), so I can care for her, maybe, sort of, but if protocol doesn’t allow for me to be there all the time, she could die alone.

[SquirrellyMama]

52 minutes ago, Paige said:

I think either we will be advised to implement aggressive isolation/ social distancing practices now, or it's going to be so widespread in a month or 2 that quarantines will not be practical.

Could you go see your father soon instead of waiting until he gets sick? 

 

I have tickets to go in July. I'm hoping by then we'll know if this is going to spread widely through the US or not.

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

 

1 hour ago, mlktwins said:

I want to add that I do think this scenario could happen 😞. 

One of the reasons it concerned me so much is his health problems, but also because my mom has been in Germany for the last 3 months. It hasn't been in the town where my brother's family lives, but is "bad" in the town 10 miles away. She gets home tomorrow. I know she's travelled while in Europe, but I'm not sure where.

I talked to my dad today and he sounds awful. He said his lungs got worse over night and he's been coughing a lot. Sounds like bronchitis when he talks.

Kelly

Edited March 4, 2020 by SquirrellyMama

[prairiewindmomma]

Kelly, fwiw, my heart truly goes out to you. We are due to visit in late June. Family talks about it on every call. But, I think we might be at peak transmission then and might not go. I can’t say that yet....just letting things play out.

[Meriwether]

I would go to my parents, but my kids are old enough to survive without me for a month if needed and I am in driving distance.

[livetoread]

3 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Under these circumstances, a choice to be with your mother would be a blessing to her and though a challenge to you, not a danger to others. 

Yes, but I don’t know if a hospital would let me. Dying of a respiratory illness at home sounds awful without powerful meds, and going to a hospital where you can be snowed means protocols that may or may not allow me to be there all the time. I’m sure I can visit all gowned up and all, but can I stay? She isn’t afraid to die and doesn’t even want to be on a ventilator, but has a big fear of not being able to breathe while dying. You need strong meds to avoid that,

[Joker]

We’ve had the same talks here because we just found out my in laws decided to take a road trip to the Bay Area last weekend to hang out with friends and family. 😐 They are not in the greatest of health but aren’t at all worried about this virus. Hopefully they didn’t pick up anything. 

[mlktwins]

2 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

 

One of the reasons it concerned me so much is his health problems, but also because my mom has been in Germany for the last 3 months. It hasn't been in the town where my brother's family lives, but is "bad" in the town 10 miles away. She gets home tomorrow. I know she's travelled while in Europe, but I'm not sure where.

I talked to my dad today and he sounds awful. He said his lungs got worse over night and he's been coughing a lot. Sounds like bronchitis when he talks.

Kelly

Kelly, I am so sorry you are having to even think about this!  Her being overseas for 3 months and coming home tomorrow adds a whole new level of risk, stress and worry :-(.  I am so sorry!!!

She probably should not go near your dad for a couple of weeks, but how do they make that happen?!?!?

For now, keep the reservations, but I really would not get on a plane anytime soon if you can help it.  I think, if things continue as are expected, we will all be making some tough decisions.  I am typing up a letter for 911 to have if they need to come get my dad and I can't get to him.  Meds, medical conditions, I'm going to put his picture on it, how to contact me.  I need to get his medical directive stuff printed out and over there too.  Really sucks!!!

This is a somber topic and one I never thought I would be thinking about, but here we are :-(.  My sister lives 6 hours from me and lives alone.  She also works at a hospital.  I am very worried about her being sick and alone.

Just so sorry...  

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Joker said:

We’ve had the same talks here because we just found out my in laws decided to take a road trip to the Bay Area last weekend to hang out with friends and family. 😐 They are not in the greatest of health but aren’t at all worried about this virus. Hopefully they didn’t pick up anything. 

Both SF Bay Area and SoCal South Bay are affected. LA county has declared state of emergency. 

[Joker]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Both SF Bay Area and SoCal South Bay are affected. LA county has declared state of emergency. 

Yes, and they decided to road trip there from their home in Nevada for no good reason. Dh couldn’t believe it. I’m really hoping they didn’t pick it up. Not just for them but for those they will come in contact with now as well. I really don’t understand what they were thinking.

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, mlktwins said:

😞

I might be able to Face Time my dad, but my in-laws don't have any tech other than their tv and flip phone for emergencies.

Would it be possible to get them unlocked smart phones so that they can use WhatsApp. My brother is going to help my parents install WhatsApp and Skype on their smartphones and my parents already know how to Skype on their laptop. I feel smartphones are becoming a need for elderly staying by themselves. E.g consumer cellular has AARP discounts, saw their shelf display at Target https://www.consumercellular.com/shopping/choose/device

[mlktwins]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Would it be possible to get them unlocked smart phones so that they can use WhatsApp. My brother is going to help my parents install WhatsApp and Skype on their smartphones and my parents already know how to Skype on their laptop. I feel smartphones are becoming a need for elderly staying by themselves. E.g consumer cellular has AARP discounts, saw their shelf display at Target https://www.consumercellular.com/shopping/choose/device

I will bring it up again, but they don't want them.  They are also not prepping anything.  We tried.  Of course, everything will be fine.  SIL is unmarried, no kids, and recently retired so she will probably be the one to go over and take care of them.

[MEmama]

3 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

Imo, it’s the plane ride that sets your case apart, that right there would make it a no go for me, and it would be sad if your mom didn’t understand that reasoning. 

 

Honest question: is flying right now inherently more dangerous than any of the other crowded, public places we routinely go—to school, concerts, sporting events, Costco on a Saturday afternoon? 
 

[gardenmom5]

if someone is hospitalized - they are put into isolation.  no visitors. medical personal are wearing bunny suits with full face masks and gloves.

if they are in quarantine - no visitors.

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I guess my real question is "When I tell my mom that I'm not coming to see them if they are exposed, I'm not a horrible person?"

they likely won't even know if they've been exposed.   I'm in a hotspot - and there are a number of cases where no one knows how they got it.

if they are quarantined - it would be pointless to try to visit them.   skype/etc. would be much more practical in those circumstances.

I understand though.  dd is going to Europe for a friend's wedding, and I'm going to texas to help her dh with the baby.  I wonder what is going to happen between now and then.  I'm high risk.

[athena1277]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

Honest question: is flying right now inherently more dangerous than any of the other crowded, public places we routinely go—to school, concerts, sporting events, Costco on a Saturday afternoon? 
 

I think it is because flying mixes people from all over the world.  Going to school, church, sports events, etc, is only mixing people from a small area.  If the virus is not in your area, you are safe going to local events. 

[MEmama]

32 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Right now, I don't think flying is inherently more dangerous than flying used to be, but I also think that, due to recycled air, flying has always been "more risky" than school concerns, sporting events, Costco on a Saturday lol.  Flying is basically enclosing yourself in an incubation tube for X hours lol.  Obviously, flying from London to DFW is different than flying from IND to ORD, but overall, yeah, in terms of virus spread, you are breathing SO MUCH more on a plane than you might encounter in a Costco on a Saturday when you just run in, grab your TP and head out.  Time, contact, fresh air, all those things play a factor, IMO.  

 

ETA: just because flying might be less "dangerous" that doesn't mean it doesn't require more considerations.  Different locations might have different laws and rules regarding transmission and quarantine and so on.  A person might be less likely to *have* the virus, but might be more likely to be subject to quarantine, cancellation difficulties, flight changes, etc etc.  I was stuck overseas when 9/11 happened.  I had a kindergartner at home staying with my mom.  Obviously we made it home, but there are any number of things that can keep people from being able to access supplies and require some sort of stockpile

 

Yeah. I’ve been mulling this over because we have a college planning trip overseas coming up, and I’m not sure whether cancelling makes any sense. On the one hand it seems to, but on the other we are  just as likely to be exposed in my hometown. Of course there are considerations like what we would do if we had to shelter in place while travelling, and who could take care of our kitties if we had to be away for an extended period. But overall is travelling * more dangerous* right now?
 

Upthread a poster is upset that her parents decided to go on a vacation to SF for no reason. Is it truly imperative that we stop our lives? Millions of people live in the Bay Area and only a very few are probably affected. I’m not picking on the poster—I promise—I’m just mulling over what rationals are prudent vs what amount to panicking. I clearly don’t have an answer, but it is heavy on my mind as we decide whether to continue making trip arrangements (we have flights, hotels and so on) or let the opportunity pass us by. 

 

[MEmama]

4 minutes ago, athena1277 said:

I think it is because flying mixes people from all over the world.  Going to school, church, sports events, etc, is only mixing people from a small area.  If the virus is not in your area, you are safe going to local events. 

But not really. My small town is full of people from all over the world and who travel all over the world. We do not exist in a vacuum. 
 

I don’t believe that our government has any idea how many Americans have covid for the simple reason that they haven’t been testing for it outside of immediately outdated parameters. It is obvious they have zero idea of what they are doing; no lack of transparency makes that less true. So I guess my assumption is that it’s already around all of us, no matter where we live. Confirmed cases are few and far between as a result of a severe lack of coordinated testing.

[Jaybee]

The above scenarios concern me too. I'm not doing tons of prep because we just can't afford a lot of extra groceries, etc., right now. I also have some anxiety over this, but not a huge amount (yet). But to think of our parents (and other elderly people) dying alone makes me incredibly sad. We live a good distance away. And then there is, what about a funeral? We'd be coming in contact with other family members who would have been already exposed. Hopefully, it won't come to that.

[AnotherE]

At the nursing home by me that is experiencing the deaths of the residents, I believe there are family members that have held signs outside of the windows to try to communicate. Other stories (I recommend reading the Seattle Times for better information) are truly heartbreaking.

[Carrie12345]

15 hours ago, MEmama said:

Upthread a poster is upset that her parents decided to go on a vacation to SF for no reason. Is it truly imperative that we stop our lives? Millions of people live in the Bay Area and only a very few are probably affected. I’m not picking on the poster—I promise—I’m just mulling over what rationals are prudent vs what amount to panicking. I clearly don’t have an answer, but it is heavy on my mind as we decide whether to continue making trip arrangements (we have flights, hotels and so on) or let the opportunity pass us by. 

I don’t think it’s “stop our lives” time, but I am feeling more and more strongly about considering our civic duties.  We currently don’t know where all it is.  Testing is just about to take off and find people who may have already spread it. We don’t know who or where. The more we travel, the greater the chances of picking it up and/or carrying it out we have. And then there’s the risk of becoming a “contact” and being told to quarantine wherever we might be. I know I’d rather not quarantine anywhere but home.

To me, it isn’t just about odds, but about impact. Maybe my odds of bringing it to my grandmother’s care facility are low, but the impact if that *were to happen would be catastrophic. Or throwing an entire county into a state of emergency if I didn’t need to be there. Or mine if I didn’t have to leave.

I still have things that I do have to do for as long as I’m allowed to do them. I’m not personally comfortable adding to that. I don’t consider that panic.  I think it’s being considerate with a hefty dose of privilege.

[MEmama]

59 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t think it’s “stop our lives” time, but I am feeling more and more strongly about considering our civic duties.  We currently don’t know where all it is.  Testing is just about to take off and find people who may have already spread it. We don’t know who or where. The more we travel, the greater the chances of picking it up and/or carrying it out we have. And then there’s the risk of becoming a “contact” and being told to quarantine wherever we might be. I know I’d rather not quarantine anywhere but home.

To me, it isn’t just about odds, but about impact. Maybe my odds of bringing it to my grandmother’s care facility are low, but the impact if that *were to happen would be catastrophic. Or throwing an entire county into a state of emergency if I didn’t need to be there. Or mine if I didn’t have to leave.

I still have things that I do have to do for as long as I’m allowed to do them. I’m not personally comfortable adding to that. I don’t consider that panic.  I think it’s being considerate with a hefty dose of privilege.

So I guess my follow up question, for anyone interested in pondering with me, is cancelling things like any travel, sporting events, and so on our *civic duty*? I’m all for civic duty and doing my part, but I’m unsure that taking a daily walk through the local college is less likely to expose me to something than keeping travel plans.
Is it inconsiderate to attend a sporting event even though not allowing them to attend might jeopardise a student's opportunity to get scouted for college recruiting given that all the other athletes participate? Is it, as a few posters on another thread indicate, dangerous to now volunteer at the library? Should we truly be considering that a risk to our communities, and if so aren’t we actually better closing all public buildings and quarantining the entire American population? Where do we draw the line?

It’s a lot to think through. How much our lives do we put on hold—even decisions with potentially long lasting effects—vs what is common sense? I’m truly curious where other people stand.

[Carrie12345]

7 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Should we truly be considering that a risk to our communities, and if so aren’t we actually better closing all public buildings and quarantining the entire American population? Where do we draw the line?

Right now (this hour of this day) I don’t think it’s anywhere near reasonable to confine people who HAVE to go out for their livelihoods, graduation requirements, essential services, etc. 

Again, we’re beyond containment and on to slowing progression