wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

And earlier was getting news out about citizens protesting government .  

I hope the virus isn’t being used against internal dissidents somehow...   

Read the quarantine orders

anyone can be forced into quarantine on suspicion of having the virus.  Not very hard to apply the same rules to anyone who says what they shouldn’t.  And once in the quarantine you are guaranteed to get sick.  The videos etc of people being forcibly removed appear legitimate and are horrifying.  

 

[Renai]

1 hour ago, Renai said:

He's the one who posted a video about the overcrowded hospitals, including footage of a woman holding a dead relative up in a wheelchair. (

Okay, so the video you posted is the whole thing. I only saw clips before, so I sat and watched this. It includes the man in the wheelchair at the end, around minute 22. 😞

[Laura Corin]

8 hours ago, Selkie said:

Yes, this is true. I have been seeing other news stories about it.

But I can't see anything about work on viruses

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/us/charles-lieber-harvard.html

[Pen]

@Laura Corin look forhisname plus Department of Justice - for DOJ site report -

there have been several people charged recently.  One was someone caught in process of leaving US for China carrying vials of research materials .   What is clear is that there has been espionage involving biological research materials — whether someone successfully got virus out (or its DNA sequence out) is not something I have seen, but looks certainly like it’s quite possible given apparent espionage both in USA and Canada labs (probably elsewhere too).  Unfortunately, who was apprehended at border is probably tip of iceberg to what is going on, and clearly if the coronavirus was a stolen lab organism then it got through without being caught 

[RootAnn]

8 hours ago, Pen said:

I hope the virus isn’t being used against internal dissidents somehow...   

I was just thinking that as crazy as it seems, this virus is the best excuse (for China) to make some problem people disappear. Whether to quarantine & death or transport them to detention camps under cover of the illness & never hear from them again, China could be taking advantage of the confusion. The guy I saw sprinting away from officials didn't seem sick....

[Pen]

I seem not to be seeing the right videos.  I wish i could understand Chinese. 

 

[Slache]

39 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I was just thinking that as crazy as it seems, this virus is the best excuse (for China) to make some problem people disappear. Whether to quarantine & death or transport them to detention camps under cover of the illness & never hear from them again, China could be taking advantage of the confusion. The guy I saw sprinting away from officials didn't seem sick....

And deal with the population in general. Most of the dying seem to be the less desirables. Too old to work, to sick to work well.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

I seem not to be seeing the right videos.  I wish i could understand Chinese. 

 

I’m starting to realise how useful it would be to be multilingual

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

I was just thinking that as crazy as it seems, this virus is the best excuse (for China) to make some problem people disappear. Whether to quarantine & death or transport them to detention camps under cover of the illness & never hear from them again, China could be taking advantage of the confusion. The guy I saw sprinting away from officials didn't seem sick....

Well yes.  And this is an alternative theory.  That actually things aren’t as bad as they seem and it’s just a valid way to introduce a lot more controls etc on peoples movements which they accept out of fear of the virus.  I still don’t think it’s the most likely aspect but some parts of the response do seem like a charade.

[Katy]

17 hours ago, BeachGal said:

 

In nCoV patients who develop viral pneumonia, the lungs are initially damaged by the virus causing them to shed a layer of cells which then allows bacteria to attack the lungs. So first the virus attacks, then bacteria. My understanding is that they are primarily prescribing antibiotics for preventing bacterial infections. Do you have a link to something where they discuss prescribing antibiotics for nCoV as primarily anti-inflammatories? I’m curious how this would affect nCoV’s progression.

In preparation for pandemics, the NIH recommends stockpiling antibiotics to treat bacterial infections that follow viral infections. The Spanish Flu, for example, was caused by a virus, but most deaths were the result of bacterial infections that followed after. I’ve always thought the primary purpose of prescribing antibiotics was for bacterial infection. I’ll have to read up on the anti-inflammatory angle.

 

Oh the primary purpose is bacterial infection.  But completely aside from this coronavirus, when you have a patient who is hospitalized, and you can tell from their blood work that they are fighting some sort of mystery infection that isn't easily diagnosed with the first few rounds of lab work, or they started with a (presumed) virus but have been somewhat sick for 6 weeks but severely sick for a couple days, and none of the specific tests are positive for anything, they're going to start with a broad spectrum antibiotic.  And that won't just help with a bacterial infection or secondary infection, it will reduce inflammation.

They aren't going to be PRIMARILY prescribed for inflammation, because 1) we have more effective steroids for that, and 2) it's a recipe for antibiotic resistance.

Outside working in a hospital this is mainly done when someone has had a lingering viral upper respiratory infection for more than 10 days and after starting to get better suddenly get worse.  It might be bronchitis, it might be pneumonia, you definitely have sinusitis and tonsillitis from the constant phlegm. They aren't sure from lung sounds, your insurance is crap so there's no need to diagnose it with an x-ray when the treatment will likely be the same either way.  Assuming your oxygen level is high enough you don't need to be hospitalized, the likely prescription is: 1) Steroids in some form.  Maybe a short pulse of prednisone, maybe an inhaler for wheezing, maybe both.  2) Antibiotics, both to knock out potential secondary infections, but also for the anti-inflammatory effects.  3) Prescription cough medicine, because if the cough is reduced the inflammation will be reduced.  4) Mucinex to thin mucus and make it less irritating.   Most of the time this makes most patients remarkably better in 3 days or less, whether it was bacterial or viral.

As an aside, if you go through 3 rounds of this in less than 6-8 months and it keeps coming back that's one sign they need to do further testing, because you probably have something else going on.  SLE (Lupus) and lung cancer are probably the most common.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Well yes.  And this is an alternative theory.  That actually things aren’t as bad as they seem and it’s just a valid way to introduce a lot more controls etc on peoples movements which they accept out of fear of the virus.  I still don’t think it’s the most likely aspect but some parts of the response do seem like a charade.

 

I think it needs to be presumed that things are quite bad as it has significantly affected Wuhan and has become pandemic in China and increasingly much of Asia and some arrivals now to most continents except South America. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/countries-confirmed-cases-coronavirus-200125070959786.html

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

I seem not to be seeing the right videos.  I wish i could understand Chinese. 

 

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m starting to realise how useful it would be to be multilingual

It’s worse watching and reading in your heritage language. The Foxconn people can speak English but prefer to speak Chinese and they are producing masks in their iPhone factories so that the iPhone production can go on.

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

It’s worse watching and reading in your heritage language. The Foxconn people can speak English but prefer to speak Chinese and they are producing masks in their iPhone factories so that the iPhone production can go on.

 

Aren’t masks normally worn in all semiconductor related factories to keep the semiconductors clear of particular contamination?  Are they same as for virus protection? 

[Laurie]

14 hours ago, Pen said:

3 - 5 RVs may not be anywhere near enough quarantine room if a bunch of potential cases arrive—but if the coronavirus is a regular virus that transmits via droplets (not aerosol) and is not weaponized, and given the large grounds of the facility, that should be safe for people who seem well and nonetheless need to do their 14 (or whatever) days after arrival.  And safe for nearby residents. 

Fircrest, looking it up, appears to be an 85 acre facility which in past times managed tuberculosis patients.  It is probably quite well suited as a temporary quarantine location. With 85 acres, There’s probably abundant room for people from both the quarantine area and the residential school to get outdoors time without infecting anyone new.  

People who live near hospitals and urgent care centers where sick people may go, may be much closer — and thus probably more at risk.

Government folks have been talking about closing Fircrest for years ...the real estate would be worth millions.   There are people who really want Fircrest to remain open because it's home to the residents...but what if something were to happen that would wipe out the residents??? 

(I wish my mind wouldn't go there...but when I was teaching I vividly recall a certain principal talking openly about wishing the elderly nuns in the convent would hurry up and die so that the space would be available for other uses.)

On another note,   using RVs seems incredibly cruel to me.    Just the thought of having to be quarantined for days in a small space like that would probably lead me to take a bunch of Tylenols before being screened at the airport!!!    And I know the area where the RVs are parked...it's quite a distance from the airport.   I can't even imagine how awful it would be to be forced to leave the airport, go to that location (much of it in a rundown condition), and stay in a little RV for days like I'm a prisoner.   And it's cold and rainy!!! 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I think it needs to be presumed that things are quite bad as it has significantly affected Wuhan and has become pandemic in China and increasingly much of Asia and some arrivals now to most continents except South America. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/countries-confirmed-cases-coronavirus-200125070959786.html

Yes I tend to agree.  Plus the effect on China’s economy etc seems likely to be huge 

[Arcadia]

58 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Aren’t masks normally worn in all semiconductor related factories to keep the semiconductors clear of particular contamination?  Are they same as for virus protection? 

No idea.  My husband had to wear the cleanroom “monkey suit” when in the labs. 
My guess is that Foxconn mask supplies might be out of stock so it make sense for them to manufacture mask in house for their own staff.

BBC article on Foxconn mask production   https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51410700

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Laurie said:

Government folks have been talking about closing Fircrest for years ...the real estate would be worth millions.   There are people who really want Fircrest to remain open because it's home to the residents...but what if something were to happen that would wipe out the residents??? 

(I wish my mind wouldn't go there...but when I was teaching I vividly recall a certain principal talking openly about wishing the elderly nuns in the convent would hurry up and die so that the space would be available for other uses.)

On another note,   using RVs seems incredibly cruel to me.    Just the thought of having to be quarantined for days in a small space like that would probably lead me to take a bunch of Tylenols before being screened at the airport!!!    And I know the area where the RVs are parked...it's quite a distance from the airport.   I can't even imagine how awful it would be to be forced to leave the airport, go to that location (much of it in a rundown condition), and stay in a little RV for days like I'm a prisoner.   And it's cold and rainy!!! 

 

What do you think should be used? And where?

 

self contained so if not infected one doesn’t get infected from fellow quarantine people (unless own family and togetherness is to keep family together), and several windows seemed pretty good to me, maybe even some trees or something in view, not like an inner windowless room on a cruise ship  to spend a couple of weeks in.  

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Pen

[chiguirre]

6 hours ago, Slache said:

And deal with the population in general. Most of the dying seem to be the less desirables. Too old to work, to sick to work well.

The same could be said of our yearly influenza waves in the US. The most vulnerable people are the very young, the very old and people with underlying health issues. We don't need a conspiracy theory to explain why most fatalities are older people.

Edited February 9, 2020 by chiguirre

[BeachGal]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Aren’t masks normally worn in all semiconductor related factories to keep the semiconductors clear of particular contamination?  Are they same as for virus protection? 

 

The workers wear head-to-toe “bunny suits” which I don’t think would protect 100% against a virus. It might be practical enough in a hospital setting, though. One of my brothers is a chemical engineer and occasionally he has to wear special suits. I’ll ask him if he knows.

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

What do you think should be used? And where?

 

self contained so if not infected one doesn’t get infected from fellow quarantine people (unless own family and togetherness is to keep family together), and several windows seemed pretty good to me, maybe even some trees or something in view, not like an inner windowless room on a cruise ship  to spend a couple of weeks in.  

 

 

I felt sorry for that couple on their honeymoon.  I reckon dh and I would have had some pretty good arguments if we’d been trapped in a cabin like that on our honeymoon!

I think the Singapore data is going to be helpful for ascertaining how serious and contagious it is.  They currently have 43 cases and 6 are critical and 6 recovered.  The others are improving.  So it seems like the sickness is mild for around 1/7 people and very severe for 1/7 and then for others it’s a longer recovery process but not too scary.  Of course that’s off very limited cases.  And we don’t know if they have captured all cases in the data or if there are others with mild sickness or asymptomatic that haven’t been tested.

[Ausmumof3]

I have also been wondering if this virus can survive in water or waste water.  I don’t think there’s any studies for this particular one but it looks like a study on SARS indicates that some coronaviruses can.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12560-008-9001-6

Fairly short lived in waste water, up to 10 days in warm water and up to 100 days in extremely cold water.  

[Ausmumof3]

40,134 and 904 fatalities from BNO.  

 

[Ausmumof3]

International cases are now over 300

[Pen]

12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I felt sorry for that couple on their honeymoon.  I reckon dh and I would have had some pretty good arguments if we’d been trapped in a cabin like that on our honeymoon!

 

My imagined arguments begin with something like running out of birth control...

12 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

I think the Singapore data is going to be helpful for ascertaining how serious and contagious it is.  They currently have 43 cases and 6 are critical and 6 recovered.  The others are improving.  So it seems like the sickness is mild for around 1/7 people and very severe for 1/7 and then for others it’s a longer recovery process but not too scary.  Of course that’s off very limited cases.  And we don’t know if they have captured all cases in the data or if there are others with mild sickness or asymptomatic that haven’t been tested.

 

I agree.  Singapore data should be useful- at least with regard to advanced healthcare / good over all std of living, sanitation etc. cplaces .   It may not reflect what will happen if virus starts proliferation in overcrowded parts of India with large homeless populations or places like that.  (San Francisco areas where people are living on streets?) 

[Pen]

18 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I have also been wondering if this virus can survive in water or waste water.  I don’t think there’s any studies for this particular one but it looks like a study on SARS indicates that some coronaviruses can.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12560-008-9001-6

Fairly short lived in waste water, up to 10 days in warm water and up to 100 days in extremely cold water.  

 

That was in my mind when I asked about sewage from cruise ships

[maize]

3 hours ago, chiguirre said:

The same could be said of our yearly influenza waves in the US. The most vulnerable people are the very young, the very old and people with underlying health issues. We don't need a conspiracy theory to explain why most fatalities are older people.

Yep.

And the economic effect is going to be huge.

I don't think the people in charge of the Chinese government are insane, they wouldn't intentionally shoot themselves in the foot like that.

Viruses do mutate and jump from one host to another all on their own, quite frequently; that would seem to be by far the most likely explanation. Something accidentally escaping from a research facility would be a distant second in order of probability

Intentional release into one's own population of a biological agent that cannot be controlled? Not even on the probability chart.

[prairiewindmomma]

The local semiconductor factories require employees to wear full bunny suits; they are also negative pressure environments. Interestingly, that kinda makes it one of the safer open floor places to work in the midst of a pandemic. 

[Renai]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The local semiconductor factories require employees to wear full bunny suits; they are also negative pressure environments. Interestingly, that kinda makes it one of the safer open floor places to work in the midst of a pandemic. 

I was reading something (probably posted here) about how the quickly-built hospitals in China have specific requirements such as making it a negative pressure environment. 

I realize this adds nothing to the discussion, but I thought it was interesting to read about it for the second time in my life. 

[prairiewindmomma]

When my ^dd^ was being treated for her terminal brain cancer, the entire pediatric oncology floor was designed as a negative pressure unit. The isolation rooms on floor (which she also had to stay in once) were designed with separate HEPA scrubber filters and their own door seal systems. The doctors  and nurses would come in in full PPE at times because chemo is so toxic. Yay! I would have to wear the special purple gloves and other gear at times because my dd’s fluids could be harmful to me.

I have to wear n95s at times because of my own health issues. I go through at least 6 masks a day when I have to wear them in public. If you are serious about the protection, you are changing them often. When I hear of people reusing masks for days at a time I am just 😱😱😱😱.

Edited February 9, 2020 by prairiewindmomma

[Renai]

33 minutes ago, Plum said:

Interesting. Dh and I were just talking about this this morning. He said generally areas in hospitals where they clean medical equipment or in areas with strong chemicals, it is a negative pressure environment because they want to pull all of the chemicals up and out of the room and not let it seep into the rest of the  hospital. In isolation areas, it’s usually a positive pressure environment. However, I imagine if they were to design a whole hospital with the sole purpose of being quarantine/isolation, they would want the whole thing to be a negative pressure environment. I’m pretty sure I got that right. See helpful link below.

https://airinnovations.com/negative-positive-pressure-rooms-hospital-infection-control/

i haven’t been keeping up with the thread,  so I’m not sure if this link has been shared but I thought it was helpful for understanding the different types of masks, their effectiveness and size of particles. Dh had to skip his fit test when he started at the hospital because of his facial hair. He would have to wear a positive pressure mask with belt attachment instead. 

 

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/

I hadn't heard of the term before now, tbh. But what you say makes sense. If I remember correctly, the article I read was saying why it would be inappropriate to have a hotel as a quarantine place because of it not being negative pressure.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

40,134 and 904 fatalities from BNO.  

 

 

Probably will go over 1000 confirmed fatalities tomorrow.  

If the Singapore figures can be used for a more accurate sense of critical case rate, and if China’s own figure I saw somewhere of only 1% of critical cases are pulling through is correct, then fatalities are probably a lot higher.  

[Arcadia]

From Caixin Chinese. English version isn’t free http://www.caixin.com/2020-02-10/101513489.html

google translate (I did edit a little minor errors)

“Caixin.com (Reporter Shen Xinyue) Protective clothing companies have resumed work to increase production capacity, but the gap in medical protective clothing urgently needed by frontline medical staff is still obvious. Zhuang Xiaoxiong, chairman of the China Academy of Textile Sciences, told Caixin reporters that it is currently difficult for workers to return to work, the supply of raw materials is scattered and there is a mismatch, and the time required for testing and killing is long. Half a month.

On February 2, China Textile New Material Technology Co., Ltd., a subsidiary of General Technology Group's China Textile Research Institute, was identified by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology as a key production and supply unit of protective clothing fabrics. China Textile Research Institute was also appointed to lead the integration of protective clothing industry chain resources, forming at the fastest speed. Maximum production capacity.

Zhuang Xiaoxiong explained that there are fewer and fewer protective clothing that can enter the red zone, because the use of inventory protective clothing, the recent increase in production has not reached the front line: "China's production capacity is large enough, the current problem is the output not coming."

 The output of medical protective clothing has increased from 08,700 sets on January 28 to 31,600 sets on February 4, but it is still difficult to meet the current demand for epidemic prevention and treatment. Cao Guangjing, deputy governor of Hubei Province, pointed out that the minimum demand for protective clothing in Hubei on February 7 was 59,400 sets, with a total supply of 48,500 sets and a gap of 11,000.

The latest data comes from the China Textile Industry Federation revealed on February 8 that more than 60% of domestic medical textile companies have resumed production and the daily output of medical protective clothing exceeds 40,000 sets. However, there is still a certain period of time before these 40,000 sets of production capacity are put into front-line use.
The protective clothing industry has a long industrial chain and a long production cycle. Taking the final step of killing protective clothing as an example, Zhuang Xiaoxiong introduced that the ethylene oxide sterilization method is required, which takes more than ten days; if it can be changed to cobalt 60 sterilization, it can be shortened to a few minutes. Related departments have recently been studying to shorten this process.
On February 8th, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology disclosed that during the epidemic, the "Emergency Regulations for Medical Disposable Protective Clothing Irradiation Sterilization (Temporary)" was implemented, allowing medical protective clothing to be sterilized by irradiation (Cobalt 60 or electron accelerator). This is a temporary emergency measure for the prevention and control of the epidemic.
The public of China Nuclear Group claims that its production line for radiation sterilization has a sterilization capacity of more than 100 cases per hour. Based on 30 pieces of protective clothing per case and 24 hours of operation, it can complete one-time protection of about 100,000 pieces per day. Clothing sterilization task.
Xiaozhuang Xiaoxiong pointed out that the current epidemic situation has seen a sharp increase in demand, the entire protective clothing industry chain is in a disordered state, and there are problems such as mismatched resources and long processes in multiple links.
The production process of protective clothing includes: After the fabric is produced, it needs to be sent to the medical device testing organization under the local drug regulatory agency to check whether the standard is met. The cycle is about one week. Some of the indicators may not be able to be tested by the drug regulatory agency. ; After the fabric is qualified, it is handed over to the protective clothing factory, and the finished sample clothing still needs to be tested. The cycle is about one week.
However, many companies temporarily turning to the production of national standard protective clothing do not understand this process. Zhuang Xiaoxiong said that sometimes the inspection agency has a large amount of business and does not accept orders from these companies, resulting in time lag. Therefore, what China Textile Research Institute is currently doing is to coordinate with them and send letters to the testing institutions through the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, so that the two sides can successfully dock.
Xinzhuang Xiaoxiong said that fabric testing is not a necessary step. If the protective clothing factory has always used the same fabric supplier and the fabric composition and process have not changed, it can be produced directly without inspection. However, there is a mismatch in fabric supply.
He gave an example. After the clothing company changed production of protective clothing, there are now 7 fabric suppliers, which means that it is necessary to test 7 types of fabrics, and time is wasted: "Theoretically, 7 fabric suppliers correspond to 7 protective clothing Enterprises are right, so now we need to sort out this link and achieve point-to-point supply. "
Langzhong Textile New Material Company started production on January 29, and the daily production capacity has now reached more than 35,000 meters, which can meet the production needs of more than 10,000 sets of medical protective clothing. According to Zhuang Xiaoxiong, a set of protective clothing requires 3 to 3.3 meters of fabric.
In addition, the protective clothing industry chain still faces the problem of insufficient workers. A fabric company in Zhejiang has a daily production capacity of 120,000 meters. Now, due to insufficient workers, it can only achieve 50,000 meters, and the production capacity has been cut by more than half. "The essence is that workers cannot return to work, and localities are now strictly guarding against death and preventing residents from going out." Technical work: "It is not possible to just find another worker."
Second, raw materials are not guaranteed and upstream supply is unstable. Zhuang Xiaoxiong said that protective clothing fabrics are mainly composed of non-woven fabric, polyethylene film, and rubber. Due to the mismatch of resources, the shortages are different in different places: "Under traffic control, logistics transportation is a problem. A Zhejiang company has cloth, film, and rubber shortages. It drives cars to Linshi to transport rubber, but it cannot return when it is out. In this case, the transportation department needs to open green channels. "
 The lack of production equipment has also become a problem. On February 9, the official website of the Ministry of Industry issued an announcement for the collection of plodders, saying that the lack of plodders (also known as hot air seam sealers, stick applicators, and heat sealers) is a bottleneck restricting the increase in production and capacity of medical protective clothing. Companies that use bead presses to produce jackets, raincoats, special work clothes, tents, and other products provide information on their transferable, leaseable, borrowable, and donated bead presses.
At present, in order to alleviate the pressure of supply shortage, various clothing enterprises with production conditions are turning to protective clothing production, including red beans, three guns, and Ruyi, etc. Provinces have opened up green channels for this. The State Food and Drug Administration announced on February 5 that many provinces have initiated emergency approval procedures for medical devices to carry out emergency approval for medical devices urgently needed for epidemic prevention and control. As of 16:00 on the day, the relevant provincial drug regulatory bureaus had approved 72 medical device registration applications, including 9 medical disposable protective clothing.
Men's clothing company Red Bean Co., Ltd. (600400.SH) announced on the evening of February 3 that the scope of business has increased the production of first- and second-class medical devices, and the company will obtain the "Jiangsu Province emergency medical supplies protective clothing, masks emergency production and use for the record After approval, medical disposable protective clothing is produced. Production products will be subject to unified government allocation and will not be sold externally.
Red Bean Co., Ltd. estimates that the production capacity of medical protective clothing after mass production is about 60,000 pieces / month, and the sales revenue involved is about 12 million yuan / month. Based on this calculation, a single piece of protective clothing is about 200 yuan. Hongdou shares said that the business is mainly to fulfill the social responsibilities of listed companies, to support the government's epidemic prevention and control work, and not to make profits as the main purpose.
Mercury Home Textiles (603365.SH) urgently changed 10 quilt production lines to protective clothing production lines on January 31. The sample was successfully sampled on February 2 and passed the testing of a professional agency. It was officially put into operation on the 3rd. The current daily production capacity is 1,000 sets. In the future The maximum daily production capacity can reach more than 2000 sets. Mercury Home Textiles Securities Affairs Representative said that the company produces non-medical protective clothing. The production qualifications and processes of medical protective clothing are more complicated. The raw materials required for production are allocated by the government and the finished products are also allocated by the government.
Cao Guangjing, deputy governor of Hubei Province, said at a press conference on February 8 that, as of February 7, the resumption rate of major protective products manufacturers in the province reached 100%, and some companies even overloaded production, and are still fully expanding. Capacity because demand is very urgent.
This article is free for a limited time. Thanks to the enthusiastic readers for subscribing to Caixintong and supporting journalists to explore the truth on the front line! Become a member of Caixintong and read the Caixin website!
For more reports, please see: [Feature] Full Record of Epidemic Prevention of New Coronary Pneumonia (Live Update)”

[Arcadia]

from SCMP https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3049801/japan-finds-60-more-coronavirus-infections-diamond-princess

“Testing aboard the Diamond Princes cruise ship in Japan has found 60 more confirmed cases of the novel coronavirus, domestic broadcaster TBS TV reported.

That brings total cases on the ship docked in Yokohama, south of Tokyo, to 130, according to TBS.

Japanese authorities have so far tested about 280 people on board the Diamond Princess, which was placed on a two-week quarantine after a former passenger, who disembarked in Hong Kong last month, was diagnosed with the coronavirus.

About 3,700 people are on board the vessel, which usually has a crew of 1,100 and a passenger capacity of 2,670.”

[mathnerd]

On 2/5/2020 at 1:06 PM, RootAnn said:

Right. I'm saying that I think they (Chinese government officials) are intentionally underreporting the numbers they do have records on. (Conspiracy theory) Are they purposefully lying about the number of deaths (that they know about) from coronavirus? 

I understand that there are way more infected than what have been treated or tested. I think there are enough leaks & news stories out now to substantiate that.

Conspiracy theory attributes an exiled billionaire from china who lives in the US (Guo Wengui) as saying that 50,000 bodies have been cremated in wuhan due to coronavirus deaths. I am not sure if there is an english language link to this, but, my chinese friend said that a link to such an article has been floating around in chinese chat channels for a few days.

I was already thinking that 1000 deaths reported by China could mean that it is almost double that number in reality. Now, I suspect that there is a bigger coverup regarding that number. 

[Carrie12345]

2 hours ago, mathnerd said:

 

I was already thinking that 1000 deaths reported by China could mean that it is almost double that number in reality. Now, I suspect that there is a bigger coverup regarding that number. 

Again, I don’t like to play in conspiracy theories (except when they don’t actually matter), but it sure is getting harder pretending to believe “official” information. China turned its entire self on its head over a tiny number of cases of a virus we’re told not to worry ourselves over. It’s spreading in multiple countries, but we’re special and holding at 12. China is overwhelmed, but confirming thousands a day while the US can’t get 1-200 specimens tested quickly. Really?

I fully accept that it takes a lot of work and time to figure out something like a new virus, so I don’t expect to know everything right now.  But I do know that no first or second world country risks destroying itself over anything “less than or equal to the flu”. We don’t keep people stuck on ships for fun. We don’t designate a ton of military bases for isolation just because.  And yet we ARE supposed to, in the US at least, behave as though everything’s just fine.  These things do not add up.

I don’t think I made it to panic stage. I’m kinda like, well.. at this rate we’ll all eventually be exposed and shake out however we shake out.

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

from SCMP https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3049801/japan-finds-60-more-coronavirus-infections-diamond-princess

“Testing aboard the Diamond Princes cruise ship in Japan has found 60 more confirmed cases of the novel coronavirus, domestic broadcaster TBS TV reported.

That brings total cases on the ship docked in Yokohama, south of Tokyo, to 130, according to TBS.

Japanese authorities have so far tested about 280 people on board the Diamond Princess, which was placed on a two-week quarantine after a former passenger, who disembarked in Hong Kong last month, was diagnosed with the coronavirus.

About 3,700 people are on board the vessel, which usually has a crew of 1,100 and a passenger capacity of 2,670.”

So 130/280 means almost half the ship maybe.  Though I guess they are testing the most likely cases first 

[Ausmumof3]

Also, I know quarantining people is probably the best thing to do but is quarantining on a cruise ship or in apartment buildings with packed people, small spaces, recirculating air really the best option?  I guess the huge amount of people makes it hard.  But I know for is if we have a bout of sickness I want to get fresh air and sunlight through as soon as possible

[Ausmumof3]

On 2/7/2020 at 12:06 PM, mumto2 said:

I just received a blast email from a British friend who is on one of the cruise ships being refused entry to ports.  She did not say anyone onboard is ill just that they picked up passengers in Hong Kong.  They have no idea when they will return home......she was canceling plans with our group for next week.  

The Westerdam cruise ship -- which has more than 2,000 people on board -- will dock this Thursday in the Thai city of Laem Chabang. It was previously denied entry to Japan, PH, and Taiwan as countries closed their ports to cruise ships over coronavirus fears | via

@CNN

 

looks like this might be good news for your friend hopefully.

[Ausmumof3]

Uk has raised their alert level to one that allows them to forcibly quarantine someone if required.  I think related to one of the evacuees threatening to leave.

this raises something ive been wondering and that is realistically what measures are likely to be taken to enforce quarantine.  I am horrified by some of the videos from China but then I wonder what actually happens in western countries when people don’t comply.  Presumably physical force or confinement have to get involved at some point.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Again, I don’t like to play in conspiracy theories (except when they don’t actually matter), but it sure is getting harder pretending to believe “official” information. China turned its entire self on its head over a tiny number of cases of a virus we’re told not to worry ourselves over. It’s spreading in multiple countries, but we’re special and holding at 12. China is overwhelmed, but confirming thousands a day while the US can’t get 1-200 specimens tested quickly. Really?

I fully accept that it takes a lot of work and time to figure out something like a new virus, so I don’t expect to know everything right now.  But I do know that no first or second world country risks destroying itself over anything “less than or equal to the flu”. We don’t keep people stuck on ships for fun. We don’t designate a ton of military bases for isolation just because.  And yet we ARE supposed to, in the US at least, behave as though everything’s just fine.  These things do not add up.

I don’t think I made it to panic stage. I’m kinda like, well.. at this rate we’ll all eventually be exposed and shake out however we shake out.

I wonder if climate and seasonal change will help.  I’m hopeful that eventually coming into warmer weather might help.  At least that water study seemed to indicate a better survival rate at cold temperatures.

and the France outbreak happened at a ski lodge.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

  I am horrified by some of the videos from China but then I wonder what actually happens in western countries when people don’t comply.  Presumably physical force or confinement have to get involved at some point.  

 

People in Singapore social media were suggesting GPS enabled ankle guards (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_tagging) that are currently being used by juvenile delinquents. In Asia, neighbours would be worried enough to report if their quarantined neighbors leave their homes.

[Arcadia]

Singapore supermarkets now rations buying of stuff https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/coronavirus-fairprice-purchase-limits-paper-rice-instant-noodles-12412538

“SINGAPORE: Shoppers at all NTUC FairPrice outlets will only be allowed to buy four packs of paper products, two bags of rice and four bundle packs of instant noodles per customer from Sunday (Feb 9). 

In a notice put up in stores across Singapore on Sunday morning, FairPrice said the purchase limits were put in place “to ensure more customers have access to high-demand items”. 

The S$50 limit for vegetables also remained in place. 

The move came after supermarkets saw a surge in demand for groceries and personal hygiene items, after the Government raised its Disease Outbreak Response System Condition (DORSCON) level to Orange due to the global coronavirus outbreak”

Previously they announced the stockpile they have and people were not feeling reassured. Singapore’s population is about 5.7million.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/fairprice-buy-what-you-need-no-need-stockpile-seah-kian-peng-12411086

“SINGAPORE: NTUC FairPrice has sufficient supply of rice, noodles and toilet paper, said the head of the supermarket chain on Saturday (Feb 8), as he urged the public to buy only what they need. 

“At this point in time, we have over 9 million toilet rolls. We have about 1.2 million packs of instant noodles. We have over 4 million kilos of rice, presently. And stocks continue to come in,” said FairPrice Group CEO Seah Kian Peng. ”

[Pen]

7 hours ago, mathnerd said:

Conspiracy theory attributes an exiled billionaire from china who lives in the US (Guo Wengui) as saying that 50,000 bodies have been cremated in wuhan due to coronavirus deaths. I am not sure if there is an english language link to this, but, my chinese friend said that a link to such an article has been floating around in chinese chat channels for a few days.

I was already thinking that 1000 deaths reported by China could mean that it is almost double that number in reality. Now, I suspect that there is a bigger coverup regarding that number. 

 

https://www.ccn.com/billionaire-whistleblower-wuhan-coronavirus-death-toll-is-over-50000/

English.  I don’t know what CCN is or reliability...

 

Behavior of authorities and traffic shut down  seems more consistent with order of magnitude of thousands or tens of thousands dead than several hundred

[mommyoffive]

4 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Again, I don’t like to play in conspiracy theories (except when they don’t actually matter), but it sure is getting harder pretending to believe “official” information. China turned its entire self on its head over a tiny number of cases of a virus we’re told not to worry ourselves over. It’s spreading in multiple countries, but we’re special and holding at 12. China is overwhelmed, but confirming thousands a day while the US can’t get 1-200 specimens tested quickly. Really?

I fully accept that it takes a lot of work and time to figure out something like a new virus, so I don’t expect to know everything right now.  But I do know that no first or second world country risks destroying itself over anything “less than or equal to the flu”. We don’t keep people stuck on ships for fun. We don’t designate a ton of military bases for isolation just because.  And yet we ARE supposed to, in the US at least, behave as though everything’s just fine.  These things do not add up.

I don’t think I made it to panic stage. I’m kinda like, well.. at this rate we’ll all eventually be exposed and shake out however we shake out.

 

This is how I feel too.  

[Arcadia]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

Behavior of authorities and traffic shut down  seems more consistent with order of magnitude of thousands or tens of thousands dead than several hundred

 

I have no idea about the rumor of China’s death toll. There are lots of people frustrated in Singapore because the government refused to cancel the air show, shut down schools and advise employers to let employees work from home. Now Singapore is the No1 spreader outside of China and people do not want that notoriety and the fear every time they take public transport to work and school  😞

 

“CLUSTER 3

WHERE: A business conference held by Servomex, a gas analysis company founded in the UK with offices worldwide.The event was held at the Grand Hyatt Singapore from Jan 20 to 22 and included participants from China, including Hubei province. Confirmed cases from Malaysia, South Korea and Britain have also been linked to this meeting.

 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Uk has raised their alert level to one that allows them to forcibly quarantine someone if required.  I think related to one of the evacuees threatening to leave.

this raises something ive been wondering and that is realistically what measures are likely to be taken to enforce quarantine.  I am horrified by some of the videos from China but then I wonder what actually happens in western countries when people don’t comply.  Presumably physical force or confinement have to get involved at some point.  

 

I guess so.

There are probably still quarantine laws in many places waiting for if needed.  They may or may not fit the current situation. 

I expect a quick executive order here in US could temporarily do a lot quite fast similar to all planes being grounded after 911 . 

 US forcibly sent people with leprosy to an island in Hawaii.  

What has happened with the couple in Australia who went to auction ? 

[Katy]

7 hours ago, mathnerd said:

Conspiracy theory attributes an exiled billionaire from china who lives in the US (Guo Wengui) as saying that 50,000 bodies have been cremated in wuhan due to coronavirus deaths. I am not sure if there is an english language link to this, but, my chinese friend said that a link to such an article has been floating around in chinese chat channels for a few days.

I was already thinking that 1000 deaths reported by China could mean that it is almost double that number in reality. Now, I suspect that there is a bigger coverup regarding that number. 

 

Oh yes, I saw similar comments on YouTube on the leaked videos a week ago.

Or others who said something like, "I have a friend who works for a funeral home, they were picking up 5 bodies a week, it's been more than 50 per day since mid October. The government is lying."

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Again, I don’t like to play in conspiracy theories (except when they don’t actually matter), but it sure is getting harder pretending to believe “official” information.

 

The “official “ information from China, especially Hubei, is most certainly under reported as compared to actual cases because even without any conspiracy they can’t cope with the volume, and don’t have a large number of people ever getting to locations where testing would happen 

Quote

China turned its entire self on its head over a tiny number of cases of a virus we’re told not to worry ourselves over. It’s spreading in multiple countries, but we’re special and holding at 12.

 

This is is possible if all the cases coming in were stopped.

It will no longer be so possible if Singapore and multiple other countries have it spreading out of control themselves 

Quote

China is overwhelmed, but confirming thousands a day while the US can’t get 1-200 specimens tested quickly. Really?

 

That is also possible.

Assume The quick test kits are all gone from everywhere.  Hence USA can’t get any number of specimens tested quickly.

Meanwhile the numbers from China are going up in a fairly consistent linear fashion indicating that their maximum slow testing capacity is in 3000-4000 tests per day, and we are seeing mostly positive results from testing that has taken a few days.

So when you see 3000 more cases on Feb 12th (just hypothetically) , that’s 3000 cases were confirmed that day.  Not 3000 people fell ill that day.  

The rate of spread is now thought to be around 3-4 R0 which would be multiplying new cases. The numbers you see aren’t “new cases” ill. They are newly confirmed by lab analysis old cases.  They could be cases who fell ill in mid January now getting confirmed.  

And it will still be only the tip of iceberg, so to speak.    Lots of cases in Hubei will never be tested and never be confirmed because the system is overwhelmed.  

Even with no conspiracy.   

When there are only 200 or so cases to test it is still possible to get more accurate statistics.  

 

Quote

I fully accept that it takes a lot of work and time to figure out something like a new virus, so I don’t expect to know everything right now.  But I do know that no first or second world country risks destroying itself over anything “less than or equal to the flu”. We don’t keep people stuck on ships for fun. We don’t designate a ton of military bases for isolation just because.  And yet we ARE supposed to, in the US at least, behave as though everything’s just fine.  These things do not add up.

 

There’s really not much as a civilian not in medical or science field you can do other than keep your family basic health and nutrition strong, and start practicing excellent sanitation.  Try to develop habits that would tend to limit exposure both not to get it if possible and not to spread it if you do. 

Which would be good as regards other illnesses too. 

 

Worry / stress  has been shown in experiments to bring down immunity, so “don’t worry” is excellent advice IMO.   It is a pro-health thing you can do.  

Meditate. Exercise.  ...

It is different IMO than a shrug and just expect to get it and that it will shake out however it shakes out attitude .

That could be sort of like not wearing seatbelts because you figure your lifetime risk of being in a car crash is huge, so why bother.  The “seatbelts” in this case are things like exercise, nutrition, sanitation, ...  so you do those things and then do life, but maybe stay home more, avoid crowds if possible... sort of like a not (deliberately going out) driving on black ice equivalent.  

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Pen

[Carrie12345]

@Pen That’s exactly what we’re doing at our house, but it’s also exactly what I figure will get us sick one day. 
People are sharing influenza like it’s their job. Even given our reduction in outings and good hygiene, the few places we go are chock full of the usual germs. Nothing to stop one more!

It isn’t going to get worse unless it gets worse. And, by then, it’s worse. 

[Pen]

53 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

I have no idea about the rumor of China’s death toll. There are lots of people frustrated in Singapore because the government refused to cancel the air show, shut down schools and advise employers to let employees work from home. Now Singapore is the No1 spreader outside of China and people do not want that notoriety and the fear every time they take public transport to work and school  😞

 

Unfortunately governments tend to be reluctant to do things that would help get in front of the 8 ball.

 I think they often fear being accused of undue caution more than they fear dealing with severe crisis.  And fear being accused of racism or similar (“countryism”?) if they shut borders as a precaution when that’s still viable.  

I don’t think it’s actually too late for Singapore to get out in front of the problem there and temporary disruption of business now would be a lot better than far bigger troubles if action is postponed.  

If the government won’t take action, what can individuals, local schools, businesses etc do?  How top down and centrally controlled is it?