UPDATE Excelling academically in rigorous b&M school but stressed and wanting to come home?

[Ann.without.an.e]

Youngest dd (a junior) won a full tuition scholarship to a rigorous b&m day school.  She has been there for three years, but did not want to go back this year.  She says her love of learning has officially been killed.She is the top of the class, excels academically, has leadership positions, takes home all of the department awards each year, has friends, etc.  She wants to come home. She is having some health problems that are wearing her out and the competitive school environment (even though all involved would say she's "winning") is killing her internally.  It isn't that the school creates competition as much as dd feels this pressure from within.  It has sparked anxiety in her and a true fear of failure.  She holds herself to too high of a standard tbh.  She just got a 94 on her first AP Lang test and she absolutely panicked.  In her mind, an A+ is the only acceptable grade. She's never made a grade "so low" on a test.    I have asked her to back off and accept less performance wise so that she isn't over-extending herself but she says she isn't capable.  She goes to sleep at 1-2 am and works most of the weekend too.  I *know* that the root of the problem here is her but I have had no luck getting her to work through this.  It is like she is in an anxiety loop that she just can't break. 

So the problem here is two fold.  She has somehow gained a true anxiety that needs to be dealt with.  We have a test scheduled to test her adrenals (just to make sure this isn't hormonal).  But she also just hates that she has lost her love of learning.  She wants to come home but she is panicked that this is the wrong decision. She worries that she will regret it.

In my mind I think it would best for her to stay in and learn to work through the anxiety issues and the school related stress she has come to know.  At the same time, she is hurting, this has been an ongoing request that I can no longer ignore.   I am also concerned about trying to piece together a transcript and explain to college admissions why she left.   I am looking for wisdom and thoughts for this.  I am so very torn as to what is best.  

 

I would love thoughts? input?  wisdom?  I am so very tired of dealing with her emotional state while in school. 

 

UPDATE on page 2 ( I miss the post numbers!)

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Attolia

[Jann in TX]

You just described my youngest dd last year!  This year (her Sr year in PS) she is only taking one AP class (other ones offered will not transfer for credit to her Uni of choice)-- she LOVES her 'regular English class, her 'regular' Government/Economics class and her 'regular Science classes... she is also noticeably more RELAXED and her anxiety is way down.  DD says that she now feels a sense of accomplishment from the challenge of her Jr. year--- so no regrets.  I'm just glad to have my dd back!

On another note-- my middle dd was homeschooled grades 1-5 then at PS for 6-9... she got a few weeks into an EXTREMELY rigorous 10th grade year and BEGGED to come home  (and we let her!)  She ended up taking a very light 10th grade year then she earned 28 credit hours of dual enrollment for her Jr and Sr years...

There is not a one-size-fits all solution... but I bet your dd does fine either way!

 

[Innisfree]

Do the teachers, counselors, admin at her school know how she feels? What has their response been?

Health first, but I wonder if there's any help available at the school before leaving.

If the school is not supportive, concerned and willing to step up, I'd go back to "health first."

Edited September 5, 2019 by Innisfree

[FriedClams]

1. Address the physical. 

2. What are her goals? Does she want to attend a highly selective college in a demanding major? Or, does she want to attend a LAC with a more holistic learning experience? I think the answer makes a fairly large impact on the decision about schools.

If she's intent on, say engineering at MIT (just an example) she'll need to learn how to deal with the rigor and pressure and pace, and find her personal balance in that. Now would be a good time to start learning the coping skills for that. But, leaving a high pressure environment now might be tricky to explain on an application if she's wanting a high pressure college experience, kwim? It's not impossible - but something to consider. If she's more interested in a unique LAC education, then going home and designing her curriculum herself is in line with the future and easily explained on an application. Neither path is right or wrong or better - but definitely a good idea to consider how she'll explain her path and decisions.

 

I think in either path the ability to make a decision about what she wants for her life, health, and education and walking it out and being able to explain that to an admissions director are all AMAZING things that will show her maturity and ability to succeed as an adult. 

[FriedClams]

And, junior year is the worst. Hang in there.

[livetoread]

I wish I had gotten help for my anxious, over-achieving daughter much earlier than I did. I thought helping to make her environment less stressful would help, and maybe it did a bit, but she was still pressuring herself and stressing in a low stress environment. Therapy helped much more.

[Farrar]

This makes me think of a This American Life I heard not that long ago. The subject of the story told how when he was a teenager in high school, two coaches helped him become a football player. He was really successful. He got a full scholarship to a big football school. But through the whole thing, he just got more and more anxious and upset. He was convinced it wasn't him. That it was all wrong. Also, that he was terrible. And, in fact, he didn't win a ton of games or start when he got to college. But all the people involved thought he was actually pretty gifted and doing a great job. They were totally happy with him. They would have said he was winning. But he didn't feel that. Anxiety was eating him alive. And finally he quit, basically before he could have a total breakdown.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. She may just need more support. Or she may need to quit. Or she might need to dial some things back but not others. But I think that core of when anxiety is eating you alive that you have to make a change... help her figure out what that is.

[ktgrok]

Health is priority number one.

Mental health counts as health. 

She's asking for help. Help her. 

Bring her home, get her in counseling. Help her learn self care so she can handle stress better. Let this be a year of learning how to meditate/yoga/run/etc. Let her volunteer, spend lots of time outdoors, get enough sleep. Heck, the sleep alone would be reason for me to stop this whole thing. 

health first. 

[Moonhawk]

I'm sorry for her stress, and also for yours by association. I do know that a high-achieving friend in college officially requested not to know their grades for the junior and senior year because it was overwhelming for them, they were obsessed with the grade, not with the education, and were starting to have panic attacks. I don't know if this would help or just exacerbate for your daughter, but a thought maybe of something along these lines that can be incorporated into the balance (limiting extra activities to things that require minimal delayed feedback, etc). 

[Pen]

I would bring her home.

 Prioritize physical and mental health.  

Maybe also talk to school - ask school if she could leave for medical reasons and be readmitted next year if she’s better. 

Maybe by next year she’d have had therapy and or physical interventions to where she can dial back her stress and perfectionism. And want to go back.  Or maybe it’s just too intense a situation for her. 

[kbutton]

Agreeing with the counseling and such. One possible goal would be to have her be able to quantify what she is both able and willing to put into something, and then select a path based on that. "Able" can include parameters like being able to do it with a reasonable amount of sleep. "Willing" might be about how perfect the grades need to be. 

For her, it might be healthy to have a perfect or nearly perfect score on everything if she's getting good sleep, and if so, translating that to a scenario, such as taking a lighter class where she can have perfect scores and sleep, might be the next step. For someone else, getting them to go to bed early and accepting a good but less perfect grade might be a better goal. A counselor can definitely help prioritize.

There will always be times when life seems to demand more than you can give and keep your health, and grown ups don't all use the same strategy to solve that problem; maybe remembering that will make this seem less daunting.

Others have chimed in about a variety of ways to achieve similar goals. I think what sticks out to me is that she has health problems and that her love of learning is killed. Both of those could make the rest of her adult responsibilities a drudge someday. I would try to make sure those things improve along with what sounds like anxiety (if the anxiety is separate, it might be an ongoing problem even if those things improve). She might artificially or impulsively narrow something more high stakes in life later on if she doesn't regain her health or a love for learning.  

 

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Attolia said:

  She just got a 94 on her first AP Lang test and she absolutely panicked.  In her mind, an A+ is the only acceptable grade. She's never made a grade "so low" on a test.    I have asked her to back off and accept less performance wise so that she isn't over-extending herself but she says she isn't capable.  

 

My ex-classmate had very similar problems in middle school. She was starting to be depressed and having very low self worth.  Seeing a psychiatrist helped. For her taking a medical leave of absence from school wouldn’t have helped because her main support network (security blanket) was classmates and staying home would have made her felt more of a loser/failure.

[73349]

I would try counseling immediately with the understanding that you are open to all the options & not attached to her staying at a school for the prestige. It does matter whether she is happy. Is there a solution that will allow her to be happy there, or does her well-being require choosing something else?--this is a question that deserves addressing right now.

[Garga]

Well, I’m a HUGE proponent for getting enough sleep.  Teenagers need up to 10 hours of sleep a night.  You only have to do a cursory search to find that not getting enough sleep is often one of the top triggers of anxiety.  

I can’t tell you what to do, as you’re the one in the trenches now, but I would be immensely concerned about the lack of sleep she’s getting.

And I do put my money where my mouth is.  My son is weaning off of anti-anxiety meds right now as we speak because they were disrupting his sleep too much and that is unacceptable to me.  Not getting proper sleep is linked to just about every mental and physical medical issue you can have in life. Choosing to forgo sleep is not an option for me except in the most dire of circumstances.  

I’m not sure it’s worth trying to do anything else for her if she’s only getting 5 or so hours of sleep a night.  Meds and counseling aren’t going to cure that disaster.  If she needs 8 hours of sleep a night and gets only 5, then over a 7 day week, she’s down 21 hours of sleep that week. 

And if she needs 10 hours of sleep, she’s losing out on 35 hours of sleep she’s supposed to have for the week.  Really, the impact of missing out on those kinds of hours of sleep (between 21-35 hours of sleep a week) can’t be understated.  It’s not like staying up late once in a while for a couple of hours.  She’s missing out on 84-140 hours of sleep a month.  No wonder she’s not coping well.  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Garga

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm with Garga. All the should's in the world (should be glad to be succeeding, should be happy with a top school, should be grateful for full tuition, whatever) do not count when a person is chronically sleep deprived. Meds and counseling have their place, but they can't replace sleep. 

5 hours of sleep per 24, six or seven days per week, is sleep deprivation. Nobody could be healthy - physically, mentally, emotionally - for very long. It's possible, if there are long periods of catch-up sleep, for an adult to limp through a sleep-deprived season. But a growing teen cannot do this 2am, up by 7 (and work on weekends) routine and stay OK.

 

Edited to add: One of my sons has a lot of friends who attended a high performing high school, the next town over. They were the type to have a lot of money, a lot of family support, a lot riding on their grades and show choir and sports and leadership groups. Son said that not ONE of them felt they were OK. They were all on anxiety meds, in counseling, but also constantly hopped up on Red Bull at the least. Some were taking a lot worse, to get through it. 

As my son put it, "All this, to lose your teen years to somebody else's agenda, mess up your mind, and the school doesn't even offer classical GREEK?" (LOL) We really did choose to homeschool for many reasons, and health was near the top of the list. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Lang Syne Boardie

[RootAnn]

Well, if you feel like you could homeschool her, I'd pull her tomorrow.

I'd also start asking around for names of good counselors who do CBT (cognitive behavioral treatment) with teens for anxiety. Then call those places. The good ones usually have a waiting list & sometimes it takes 3+ counselors to find a match. (I'll tell you we gave up trying to find a match but you probably don't want to hear that.) And she might need meds to get out of the spiral she's in, so you might end up wanting to look for a psychologist too.

Doing something sooner rather than later would be my suggestion.

[Pen]

54 minutes ago, Garga said:

Well, I’m a HUGE proponent for getting enough sleep.  Teenagers need up to 10 hours of sleep a night.  You only have to do a cursory search to find that not getting enough sleep is often one of the top triggers of anxiety.  

I can’t tell you what to do, as you’re the one in the trenches now, but I would be immensely concerned about the lack of sleep she’s getting.

And I do put my money where my mouth is.  My son is weaning off of anti-anxiety meds right now as we speak because they were disrupting his sleep too much and that is unacceptable to me.  Not getting proper sleep is linked to just about every mental and physical medical issue you can have in life. Choosing to forgo sleep is not an option for me except in the most dire of circumstances.  

I’m not sure it’s worth trying to do anything else for her if she’s only getting 5 or so hours of sleep a night.  Meds and counseling aren’t going to cure that disaster.  If she needs 8 hours of sleep a night and gets only 5, then over a 7 day week, she’s down 21 hours of sleep that week. 

And if she needs 10 hours of sleep, she’s losing out on 35 hours of sleep she’s supposed to have for the week.  Really, the impact of missing out on those kinds of hours of sleep (between 21-35 hours of sleep a week) can’t be understated.  It’s not like staying up late once in a while for a couple of hours.  She’s missing out on 84-140 hours of sleep a month.  No wonder she’s not coping well.  

 

I agree.  And if she needed a year off from school (all school)  so that her sleep and emotions could get regulated, I’d make that a priority. 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I agree.  And if she needed a year off from school (all school)  so that her sleep and emotions could get regulated, I’d make that a priority. 

Me too.

And I went for one year to an IB program for kids on the fast track and left because there was no way on earth anything was that important at 15 yrs old to be worth the anxiety, stress, etc. I had friends with ulcers, turning to drugs to self medicate, etc. It was total nonsense but the teachers fed into it. So much talk about "you need to do this/that/the other thing in college" and I was like, but I'm not IN college! I'm 15!!!

At least one had a mental breakdown that required hospitalization, others had other problems...that kind of environment can eat your soul. 

[Arcadia]

57 minutes ago, Garga said:

I’m not sure it’s worth trying to do anything else for her if she’s only getting 5 or so hours of sleep a night.  Meds and counseling aren’t going to cure that disaster.  

 

It depends on why. If it is lack of sleep due to time spend on academics then leaving that day school would help.  If anxiety is causing insomnia, then leaving that day school might not reduce anxiety enough for her to get enough sleep. She might still need medication and/or counseling 

I was on prescription sleep pills for insomnia under doctor supervision and they didn’t work for me. I just sleep better in a moving vehicle (bus, train, ferry, car) but not airplane or my bed. I slept better on the longer than twin XL hotel sofa than on the hotel queen size bed. Meditation unfortunately didn’t work for me.

[Garga]

4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

It depends on why. If it is lack of sleep due to time spend on academics then leaving that day school would help.  If anxiety is causing insomnia, then leaving that day school might not reduce anxiety enough for her to get enough sleep. She might still need medication and/or counseling 

I was on prescription sleep pills for insomnia under doctor supervision and they didn’t work for me. I just sleep better in a moving vehicle (bus, train, ferry, car) but not airplane or my bed. I slept better on the longer than twin XL hotel sofa than on the hotel queen size bed. Meditation unfortunately didn’t work for me.

Good points.  I was assuming that she was going to bed at 1 and 2 because she was studying, since it was in the same sentence about her working all weekend.

[Arcadia]

3 minutes ago, Garga said:

 I was assuming that she was going to bed at 1 and 2 because she was studying, since it was in the same sentence about her working all weekend.

 

It could be what you assumed. In my case, it was insomnia that cause me to stay up all night reading or programming or doing past year exam papers because I couldn’t sleep. The alternative was lying in bed awake so even doing past years calculus exam papers was to me better than that. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

32 minutes ago, Garga said:

Good points.  I was assuming that she was going to bed at 1 and 2 because she was studying, since it was in the same sentence about her working all weekend.

 

25 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

It could be what you assumed. In my case, it was insomnia that cause me to stay up all night reading or programming or doing past year exam papers because I couldn’t sleep. The alternative was lying in bed awake so even doing past years calculus exam papers was to me better than that. 

 

Mostly studying or working on stuff.  Occasionally it is insomnia.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and support. You've given me a lot to consider. 

Just to answer the most common concern - I called counselors yesterday and I have an appointment with one next week.  We are willing to switch if necessary.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Attolia

[EKS]

20 minutes ago, Garga said:

I was assuming that she was going to bed at 1 and 2 because she was studying, since it was in the same sentence about her working all weekend.

Based on your description, she doesn't sound like the type, but is it possible that she is staying up after she finishes her schoolwork to catch up on socializing and relaxing (gaming, watching videos, reading, whatever)?

I have two kids who I pulled out of school midyear during high school.  The older one was in an IB program and it was not a good fit for many reasons, so he left after the first semester of his junior year and dual enrolled at the local CC.  He ended up at a moderately selective engineering college and did well there.  The other one dropped two classes at the end of the first semester of 10th grade because, according to my son, they were "meaningless." We homeschooled those subjects for the rest of the year.  Then we homeschooled four classes in 11th grade, and now in his senior year, we are homeschooling two.  I explained my older son's situation in my counselor letter and plan to do the same for the younger one.

That said, I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation.  

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, Attolia said:

Mostly studying or working on stuff.  Occasionally it is insomnia.

 

DS13 (not my night owl) doesn’t have insomnia but he couldn’t sleep a few nights (as in go to bed at 11pm) because he didn’t finish his work. He said he wasn’t sleepy and I think it’s the adrenaline from incomplete work keeping him awake. He is adjusting to a high school workload and deciding when it’s good enough to submit an assignment and when spending an hour more is reasonable. 

So schoolwork anxiety about not doing good enough in homework assignments can also cause insomnia. It’s such a multifaceted issue.

[Tanaqui]

I attended a high pressure school. So did my sister (different school, same pressure). When we were looking into high schools for the kids we specifically chose for schools that were NOT pressure cookers. Their mental health is the most important thing*. You can always make up a year of school. You can always go back and learn a subject more in depth if you're interested in it for its own sake. You can always make up academics. You can't walk back anxiety or depression as easily. (Of course, my views here are very much informed by my personal experience.)

If you think that the issue is primarily organic in origin - that is, that she's prone to anxiety/depression and if it wasn't school it would be something else - then I'd see if she can take a break for a year or a term to do home study while seeing a counselor and possibly even exploring medication. That way her options are open if she changes her mind. But honestly... she wants to leave that school, it is definitely exacerbating her stress....

* I have irritated all kids in the neighborhood by intoning "Your education is the most important thing" when shooing them out of the house for studytime, but really, it's the mental health. None of the neighborhood kids are inclined to study themselves to death, however.

[J-rap]

I wish I had understood this personality type better when my children were growing up.  I'm so the opposite (NOT overachieving, not competitive, not a perfectionist), that I wasn't recognizing the seriousness of it.  Three of my five children have those traits, and although I could see it somewhat, I thought they'd "grow out of it" -- haha.  Those traits seem to be so genetically strong in them that they just take over.  I wish I had recognized it at the time and had them go through some type of cognitive behavioral  therapy where they (and I) would learn more about what was going on and why and how it was playing out in their interpretation of things and if it mattered and should it matter and how to steer it.  My kids are all young adults (youngest just graduated from college!) and we are only now trying to figure this all out  -- how much better it would have been if they could have done it when still living at home and at a younger age!  So your dd has that going for her!  I'd definitely recommend counseling/therapy...  and whether that needs to happen in the environment of homeschooling or after-schooling is between you and your dd.

One thing that might be helpful -- one of my children ended up seeing a counselor for gifted young adults.  She had a really good understanding of unique problems that come with that personality/brain type, which was especially helpful. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by J-rap

[Pen]

A school without grades that allows learning for sake of learning might help if there were onevin your area

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 hours ago, J-rap said:

I wish I had understood this personality type better when my children were growing up.  I'm so the opposite (NOT overachieving, not competitive, not a perfectionist), that I wasn't recognizing the seriousness of it.  Three of my five children have those traits, and although I could see it somewhat, I thought they'd "grow out of it" -- haha.  Those traits seem to be so genetically strong in them that they just take over.  I wish I had recognized it at the time and had them go through some type of cognitive behavioral  therapy where they (and I) would learn more about what was going on and why and how it was playing out in their interpretation of things and if it mattered and should it matter and how to steer it.  My kids are all young adults (youngest just graduated from college!) and we are only now trying to figure this all out  -- how much better it would have been if they could have done it when still living at home and at a younger age!  So your dd has that going for her!  I'd definitely recommend counseling/therapy...  and whether that needs to happen in the environment of homeschooling or after-schooling is between you and your dd.

One thing that might be helpful -- one of my children ended up seeing a counselor for gifted young adults.  She had a really good understanding of unique problems that come with that personality/brain type, which was especially helpful. 

 

 

I really identify with what you're saying here.  I haven't really processed it or understood it until now because it is also opposite of me.  And three out of my four kids have this tendency 😞 All I know is that they didn't get it from me 🤣  

The counselor that I chose specializes in anxiety and she said that she works with many gifted teens.  Actually when I was explaining dd's anxiety, her first question was "she's a gifted, high achiever isn't she?"  I think she will be good but we are open to changing if we need to 🤷‍♀️

[MeaganS]

This was me. I got into a rigorous public math and science boarding school and after years of putting academic pressure on myself, around the end of junior year it sort of cracked. I was able to graduate early and it was like a flip switched. I didn't care about school at all anymore. It's like something in my brain screamed it's not worth it and none of this matters. I went to college but skipped classes and didn't do the work. I failed many classes because I didn't even try. I was on academic probation but managed to squeak out a degree after a few years. It's taken me years to recover, I feel like. For me, it was like a defense mechanism against all the stress I was feeling. Like my brain said it is all or nothing. I couldn't find a happy medium between the stress and pressure vs. success in my personal goals.

Edited September 6, 2019 by MeaganS

[Ann.without.an.e]

3 hours ago, MeaganS said:

This was me. I got into a rigorous public math and science boarding school and after years of putting academic pressure on myself, around the end of junior year it sort of cracked. I was able to graduate early and it was like a flip switched. I didn't care about school at all anymore. It's like something in my brain screamed it's not worth it and none of this matters. I couldn't find a happy medium between the stress and pressure vs. success in my personal goals.

 

 

THIS!  I hear her say these things so much.  She went from loving to learn, hoping to follow her sister to Duke, etc to questioning the value in any of it.  She says she no longer wants to go to college at all, has no desire for anything anymore.  I just don't know if the right approach is to bring her home, help her heal, help her find the love of learning again or to help her manage the stress so she doesn't feel these things.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 hours ago, HeighHo said:

One thing with the anxiety is that doing your familiar routine of schoolwork takes your mind off what you are anxious about - at this age I would wonder if there is a social worry related to coming of age?

 

 

I am not exactly sure what you are asking?  She has voiced many fears over the last year or so.  The fear of not knowing what she wants to do with her life.  She fears change and bucks technology.  She fears where our society is going in general and has a distrust for government.  She says she would be happier 100 years ago away from all of this.  Our world is feeling too big to her and she doesn't see a future for herself in it.  I have no idea where these feelings are coming from. It doesn't help that the AP Lang readings right now are adding fuel to her fears.  They just read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks.

[MeaganS]

6 minutes ago, Attolia said:

 

 

THIS!  I hear her say these things so much.  She went from loving to learn, hoping to follow her sister to Duke, etc to questioning the value in any of it.  She says she no longer wants to go to college at all, has no desire for anything anymore.  I just don't know if the right approach is to bring her home, help her heal, help her find the love of learning again or to help her manage the stress so she doesn't feel these things.  

 

Does she have goals? Like a career goal? Part of my problem was I was working and stressing, and the goal of "college" wasn't good enough. I was a smart kid who could do anything, but I had no passion about any particular job. To this day, I have no career passion at all. I put my energies into being a mom and homeschooler, and view that as my passion. If I had to go back to work or get further education (which I probably would since a PoliSci degree is useless), I have no idea what I would even do. I'd definitely help her work through how to handle stress and anxiety, but also have a serious conversation about what she wants to do. Because knowing where she's going will help a lot. And maybe plan a gap year that she can look forward to? That would have helped me, I think. 

[ktgrok]

Existential OCD and Existential Depression are both terms you may wan to read up on. 

And it does sound like her world, at least, is moving too fast for her. And that's okay. Not everyone wants to be part of the "rat race" as they used to call it. And that can be a scary thing to admit when you are gifted...it feels ike you are letting people down if you "waste" your intellect by not getting the best grades, pushing hard, going to a fancy college, etc etc. 

That said, she's definitely expressing symptoms of depression, and that bit about not seeing a future for herself is a HUGE red flag to me. Get her out of there, and into regular counseling, would be my suggestion. Help her find her place in the world - this doesn't seem to be it. But people with out a future to look forward to sometimes end things themselves,s so that phrasing scares me. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

6 minutes ago, MeaganS said:

 

Does she have goals? Like a career goal? Part of my problem was I was working and stressing, and the goal of "college" wasn't good enough. I was a smart kid who could do anything, but I had no passion about any particular job. To this day, I have no career passion at all. I put my energies into being a mom and homeschooler, and view that as my passion. If I had to go back to work or get further education (which I probably would since a PoliSci degree is useless), I have no idea what I would even do. I'd definitely help her work through how to handle stress and anxiety, but also have a serious conversation about what she wants to do. Because knowing where she's going will help a lot. And maybe plan a gap year that she can look forward to? That would have helped me, I think. 

 

She is a fantastic writer and has won several awards on the national level but everyone tells her that there is no career in writing.  She sees it as a dead end road.  She can't think of anything else she would want to do at all.  The idea of doing anything else kills her. She loves history too but doesn't want to teach. It frustrates her that she doesn't have a long term goal.  She excels in all subjects and is very well rounded but has no passion for any of it.  What she really wants to do is just write, but the everyone tells her that she can do that all she wants....on the side but that she needs to pick a career for the daytime.  She's happy with a simple life, she doesn't need a lot of money or fancy trinkets.  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Attolia

[Pen]

If there’s a soon upcoming therapist appointment with someone who might turn out to be good, I’d wait on decision about pulling her from school to homeschool until that visit—try to get help with the decision in the visit.

But I’d call school to ask if she could leave for year and return next year — including getting her scholarship.  Also because you said there’s some medical problem as well as sleep, anxiety, perfectionism, iirc.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

20 minutes ago, Pen said:

If there’s a soon upcoming therapist appointment with someone who might turn out to be good, I’d wait on decision about pulling her from school to homeschool until that visit—try to get help with the decision in the visit.

But I’d call school to ask if she could leave for year and return next year — including getting her scholarship.  Also because you said there’s some medical problem as well as sleep, anxiety, perfectionism, iirc.  

 

 

This is our hope - to see therapy, get hormones tested, etc before making the decision.  I am not sure if she can leave and return?  I will probably ask though. She is set to be valedictorian right now and leaving would take that away but TBH that wouldn't be a bad thing.  The school only ranks a val and sal and no one else is ranked.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Attolia

[ktgrok]

Why are people telling this girl what she has to do for a career when she was a junior in high school? She’s years until she needs a career. I hate how they can push down younger and younger.

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, Attolia said:

I am not exactly sure what you are asking?  She has voiced many fears over the last year or so.  The fear of not knowing what she wants to do with her life.  She fears change and bucks technology.  She fears where our society is going in general and has a distrust for government.  She says she would be happier 100 years ago away from all of this. 

 

12 minutes ago, Attolia said:

She is a fantastic writer and has won several awards on the national level but everyone tells her that there is no career in writing.  

She's happy with a simple life, she doesn't need a lot of money or fancy trinkets.  

 

Would taking a medical leave of absence for a semester from the day school and doing a mission trip help? She could write a blog or help with a newsletter while on a mission trip. 

I think her anxiety might be partially due to wondering what is her purpose in life. When I was her age, I kind of decided that my purpose in life was to do unpaid volunteer work so comically that means that I have to either strike lottery or marry someone who agrees with my life choice. My husband was my college schoolmate and while he was always supportive, it took him years to understand the work for the fun of working and doing volunteer work because I want to. 

10 minutes ago, Pen said:

If there’s a soon upcoming therapist appointment with someone who might turn out to be good, I’d wait on decision about pulling her from school to homeschool until that visit—try to get help with the decision in the visit.

 

If the therapist is good, I would wait to pull her out to see what other possibilities are there. If the therapist is not a good fit, then OP would have more to worry about.

[MysteryJen]

24 minutes ago, Attolia said:

 

She is a fantastic writer and has won several awards on the national level but everyone tells her that there is no career in writing.  She sees it as a dead end road.  She can't think of anything else she would want to do at all.  The idea of doing anything else kills her. She loves history too but doesn't want to teach. It frustrates her that she doesn't have a long term goal.  She excels in all subjects and is very well rounded but has no passion for any of it.  What she really wants to do is just write, but the everyone tells her that she can do that all she wants....on the side but that she needs to pick a career for the daytime.  She's happy with a simple life, she doesn't need a lot of money or fancy trinkets.  

You need to get her away from the people who are constantly telling her there is no career or money in the thing she loves.

I was a high achieving perfect student who heard that constantly and it basically made me doubt everything about what I loved and what I was good at. 

I cannot tell you how that wrecked me for years and sapped the joy out of so many things for me. 

Money and career should not be the focus of a teenager's achievement- that bothers me on so many levels.

Take her out- take her to counseling- allow her to have her passion without judgement.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think @Ktgrok just expressed it very well: "The world is moving too fast for her."

A lot of young people are feeling these exact same fears. We do all have some reason for concern - I won't go into the politics, but we all know it. As you say, the doom literature does NOT help right now, and the curriculum of too many schools is, indeed, fairly meaningless. I am sure that if I were a teen right now, I would be expressing myself exactly as your daughter is, including the technology fears and wishing I could just go somewhere and write.

I'll tell you how my young people are handling these stresses.

In the first place, 5 out of 5 of the teens that I've homeschooled (my four plus a tutored student) say that homeschooling, with wholesome hours, wholesome literature, meaningful lessons, nature and DIY focus, fresh air and exercise, spared them so much. They did not face the young people's angst until their senior year of high school or college. So I do think that if there is no meaning being felt and the anxiety and depression are growing, complicated by lack of sleep and too much career pressure, leaving the school might be a good plan.

In the second place, my young people all did manage to find work that was meaningful to them, that makes them more able to tune out the "noise" of the times, or at least provide balance (even regarding the true things that are distressing). The one who didn't have a "calling" was eventually able to internalize the idea of physical work as being honorable and noble in itself, and his profession is obviously needed, so he found purpose in work, itself. Mike Rowe's message worked for him. He was the one who struggled the most with finding his place in this world. He went to a public technical high school for a year, and managed to pick up some of these schooly values of college-or-die, you must have a calling, etc. I had to bring him home after an unhappy college attempt (he dropped out with A's and B's but hated it), and gently but deliberately re-program the HOME values that I'd raised him with. I'm thankful every single day that he was able to return to those home values and be at peace with his career and life. In his work world, he can handle whatever is needed, including industry, technology, physical work, but I think he still doesn't really "get" life in this era. The stresses, pace, and fears would still upset him if he spent too much time worrying about it. He prefers to live at home with us, and he spends a lot of time in nature. Both decisions help him stay grounded and content.

If I had a child who was afraid of technology, sick over school anxiety, unable to see her future in this world, wishing she could be a writer....I'd see this all as a cry for help. I do think many young people feel these things and you are lucky that your child is able to express herself to you. 

Writing is an identity and frequently a career. Whether full-time or part-time. I'd be doing my best to get that concept into her head, and introduce her to writers who will reinforce that "writers are people who write. Sometimes you make money, sometimes you don't, but the thing that makes you a writer is that you write." (I'm raising an artist. Same speech.)

Without knowing your family or this child at all, just from my own personal experience (with myself and with my young people), I think I would be looking for something grounding and centering that she might enjoy, to help regain equilibrium and redefine some aspects of herself. If she could also write about those pursuits, that would be very validating. I'm thinking of animal care, like raising rabbitry (for therapy and angola fur), or hippotherapy, or becoming involved in an animal shelter. Or nature, if she would like to combine photography with writing, and create a nature journaling blog. Or conservationism and stewardship - that's one of my approaches to dealing with the climate change doom. I don't get involved with tense, anxious activism; I do quiet things. Hiking and learning forestry are two ideas. Lastly, my entire family has found that working with our hands at traditional arts is very calming, and resets the pace of life. Woodworking, sewing, quilting (especially with upcycled materials), leatherworking, weaving...one of my sons is pursuing a career in cabinetry and furniture design so that he can make a good living at doing what calms him and brings him peace.

Sometimes profoundly gifted people suffer greatly in a fast-paced society. Traditional handicrafts and fine arts, writing, music, and a lot of time spent in nature can help us slow the pace enough. If it's just slowed enough that we feel safe from anxiety, and we feel that we have space to create, then we can frequently get out there and be achievers in today's world for part of our day.  Several of my young people are doing that - working high pressure, "important" jobs, but deliberately using nature, animals, music, and working with their hands to offset the stress. Three of my young people have chosen careers and lifestyles that omit the rat race entirely, and they are also doing well.

Having said all this, as I said upthread regarding my son's friends, I am not sure the way we are raising and launching young people is all that healthy for anybody. People frequently find ways to adapt and cope, that's what humans do, but when there are red flags sometimes we need help stepping back and opting out. At least to some extent. Everyone has to be able to take the narrator viewpoint for a minute and look at a lifestyle, and be willing to take it or leave it. Often, if we can do that, we choose to hang in there awhile longer because it "is" a choice. If there's not something down deep in the heart of a person that says, "I am doing this hard thing right now because I see some benefits, but it doesn't define me, and I have choices; I'd rather (dig ditches, live in a van down by the river, whatever) than lose myself to this, but I'm fine for now," then there's a problem. 

Lastly, my experiences with these angsts and concerns has been fairly shallow, because we only spent a small amount of time with the wrong values. We had the foundation, we did not have mental illness, and some time and space were enough for even my most troubled kid to re-center. He was on a clock and didn't know it, though. If I didn't see him "shake it off" almost as soon as he did, I was definitely prepared to seek professional help. There were times in my youth when I would have benefited from counseling and possibly medication, when I couldn't deal with my square peg, round hole problem. The main thing is to do what you are doing - watch closely, you did make an appointment for counseling, you are willing to make changes as soon as you decide what those changes should be.

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

10 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Why are people telling this girl what she has to do for a career when she was a junior in high school? She’s years until she needs a career. I hate how they can push down younger and younger.

 

I feel like we live in a world where there is almost a different sort of sexism going on.  "You are a smart and capable girl so you belong in STEM."

Edited September 6, 2019 by Attolia

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Attolia said:

 

I feel like we live in a world where there is almost a different sort of sexism going on.  "You are a smart and capable girl so you belong in STEM."

 

with all the girls going into stem there may well be room for girls in journalism or other writing type fields.    

[ktgrok]

Tell her she can absolutely major in English and devote her life to writing for the next several years and then figure out how to make money after that. And English degree is entry into a lot of fields.

[ktgrok]

If you can’t be dreamy and romantic and impractical at 16 when can you be? 

[Corraleno]

4 hours ago, Attolia said:

THIS!  I hear her say these things so much.  She went from loving to learn, hoping to follow her sister to Duke, etc to questioning the value in any of it.  She says she no longer wants to go to college at all, has no desire for anything anymore.  I just don't know if the right approach is to bring her home, help her heal, help her find the love of learning again or to help her manage the stress so she doesn't feel these things.  

 

4 hours ago, Attolia said:

She is a fantastic writer and has won several awards on the national level but everyone tells her that there is no career in writing.  She sees it as a dead end road.  She can't think of anything else she would want to do at all.  The idea of doing anything else kills her. She loves history too but doesn't want to teach. It frustrates her that she doesn't have a long term goal.  She excels in all subjects and is very well rounded but has no passion for any of it.  What she really wants to do is just write, but the everyone tells her that she can do that all she wants....on the side but that she needs to pick a career for the daytime.  She's happy with a simple life, she doesn't need a lot of money or fancy trinkets.  

 

Try to look at this from her perspective: She is being told by pretty much everyone in her life that her only real option is to endure the pressure and stress of her current school, doing work she mostly finds meaningless, in order to get into a top college, so that she can endure four MORE years of pressure and stress, in order to get a degree in something she doesn't care about, so she can spend the rest of her life slogging away at a job she finds meaningless, because the one thing she loves more than anything, the one thing she feels gives her life purpose and meaning, is not "worth" much. Of course she's miserable and questioning the value of everything and feels like she has no future. 😥

PLEASE, I beg you, listen to what your child is telling you and let her come home. Insisting that she stay in a pressure-cooker school, so she can stay on the track that you want for her, while trying to "fix" her for wanting to get off that track, can make the problem so much worse. The goal of therapy should not be to increase her tolerance for stress and meaninglessness, so she can jump back on the hamster wheel. She needs people around her who will tell her that what she wants is not only valid but achievable, that she can have the life she wants, she doesn't have to resign herself — at the age of 16! — to a life of stress and drudgery that holds no meaning for her. Of course she can make a living as a writer! There are so many ways to do that, and there is no reason on earth why she should be expected to know exactly what that will look like when she is only 16.

Ugh, I have written and deleted and rewritten this so many times. This issue hits very close to home for me because I was totally that kid in high school — right down to winning national awards for writing. I just wanted to read. all. the. books. and write and write and write, and the more people told me that getting top grades (in courses I didn't care about) and a "marketable" degree (in a subject I didn't care about) so I could have a life just like theirs but with more money, the less I cared about school — or life. All the people admonishing me for "not living up to my potential," warning me that I was going to ruin my life if I stepped off the assembly line, had no idea how close I came to "stepping off" permanently because of what they said. It's a strange sort of paradox that the smarter you are, the fewer "acceptable" options you seem to have in many people's eyes. 

OP, your daughter is a writer. It's not just "a job," it's who she is. Please give her the time and space to explore that and to find out what matters to her, and what kind of life she wants, away from an environment that says there is only one possible path for "smart" kids like her.

[ktgrok]

Amen to everything Corraleno said. 

[lewelma]

Quote

PLEASE, I beg you, listen to what your child is telling you and let her come home

 

YES, YES, YES.  I work with at-risk youth.  Get her home, get her safe, get her therapy, get her in charge of her own educational vision.  NOW. 

As an amazing writer and deep thinker, her college essays will shine as she explains WHY she pulled out of a pressure cooker environment to follow her own path. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by lewelma

[Soror]

I think your daughter is showing a lot of maturity in asking to come home, that takes a lot of guts.

I think she for sure needs counseling, which you are obviously addressing, but I don't see her reaction to the stress as some unexpected reaction.  I don't think there is something wrong with her that she can't take it, I think the system is broken when it puts education above the physical and mental well-being of a child. Sleep deprivation is used as torture and is very hard on the body and mind, couple that with the pressure of picking what you want to do with the rest of your life when everyone tells you what you love is worthless would be hard on anyone.

[Pen]

Reread this part you wrote:

On 9/5/2019 at 2:23 PM, Attolia said:

She is having some health problems that are wearing her out and the competitive school environment (even though all involved would say she's "winning") is killing her internally.

 

Health problems + killing her internally

= major      

 

 

No point getting into a “good college”  if one is made chronically ill by the pressure, or dead inside.  Or both.