Would You Expect Your DH to Say Something?

[goldberry]

I have a friend who is Mexican (that's how she identifies) married to a white man.  They've been married 15+ years.  His parents (inlaws) have never acted very friendly to her and sometimes even stand-offish.  White man's brother (BIL) married white girl (white DIL).  MIL is very gushy over white DIL. In fact, over the last few years, MIL has taken white DIL on some trips, etc.  One of the trips was to New York, meeting extended family.  While my friend and her husband were at a family gathering, MIL starts talking to white DIL about planning another trip to NY with her, in front of my Mexican friend (which is totally rude anyway).  BIL pipes up and says, "Hey, why doesn't (Mexican friend) go with you guys?"  MIL is quiet a minute then says, "Well, they're just very prejudiced up in New York."  Table goes silent.  Then MIL adds... "...against black people."  ?????  Further awkward silence during which my friend's husband sits there like he wasn't even really hearing what was going on, then someone changes the topic.

So, my friend has always assumed that she was not close to MIL because of personality or whatever.  The family has never made any racist comments directly, or anything that caused her to think that there was an underlying prejudice there, although now she is thinking maybe they just don't say it around her?  She was first mad that BIL was the one to stand up and say something when they were planning the NY trip, and not her DH.  Then DH did not say anything after his mother's comment.  DH later said yes he heard her, but wasn't really sure what the context was.  ??  I started thinking about it, and could almost see my DH doing the same thing, since he has a hard time keeping up with social interactions.  She thinks he should say something to his mother now.  Would you expect that of your husband?

(I'm using awkward names like Mexican friend and white DIL just to keep track of everyone as easy as possible while getting the story out!  No offense intended here!)

 

 

[HomeAgain]

I'd be expecting my dh to be trying his best to make my volume go lower as I'm calling MIL out on her behavior. 

[Ellie]

What a crummy thing to happen. 😞

I kinda think he should say something at some point, but I don't know what.

[goldberry]

5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I'd be expecting my dh to be trying his best to make my volume go lower as I'm calling MIL out on her behavior. 

 

I know, right?  Wow.  

[JustEm]

Yes, I'd expect my dh to speak to his mother about the comment she made. If he were unwilling to do it then I would address her myself.  But that is the least I would do.

[Murphy101]

Nope my dh wouldn't say anything.  He would figure why bother.  But then again, I don't see a problem either bc why would Mexican DIL want to go on a trip with her jerk bigoted mother in law anyways?

I rarely speak to my mil though bc ... why would I want to?  Polite convo 2-3 times a year at the occasional family get together is enough.

[itsheresomewhere]

I can see my DH so stunned that his brain won’t be able to come up with what to say.  Perhaps, stew on it at home and try to figure out how to say something to his mother.

[Sneezyone]

27 minutes ago, goldberry said:

I have a friend who is Mexican (that's how she identifies) married to a white man.  They've been married 15+ years.  His parents (inlaws) have never acted very friendly to her and sometimes even stand-offish.  White man's brother (BIL) married white girl (white DIL).  MIL is very gushy over white DIL. In fact, over the last few years, MIL has taken white DIL on some trips, etc.  One of the trips was to New York, meeting extended family.  While my friend and her husband were at a family gathering, MIL starts talking to white DIL about planning another trip to NY with her, in front of my Mexican friend (which is totally rude anyway).  BIL pipes up and says, "Hey, why doesn't (Mexican friend) go with you guys?"  MIL is quiet a minute then says, "Well, they're just very prejudiced up in New York."  Table goes silent.  Then MIL adds... "...against black people."  ?????  Further awkward silence during which my friend's husband sits there like he wasn't even really hearing what was going on, then someone changes the topic.

So, my friend has always assumed that she was not close to MIL because of personality or whatever.  The family has never made any racist comments directly, or anything that caused her to think that there was an underlying prejudice there, although now she is thinking maybe they just don't say it around her?  She was first mad that BIL was the one to stand up and say something when they were planning the NY trip, and not her DH.  Then DH did not say anything after his mother's comment.  DH later said yes he heard her, but wasn't really sure what the context was.  ??  I started thinking about it, and could almost see my DH doing the same thing, since he has a hard time keeping up with social interactions.  She thinks he should say something to his mother now.  Would you expect that of your husband?

(I'm using awkward names like Mexican friend and white DIL just to keep track of everyone as easy as possible while getting the story out!  No offense intended here!)

 

I'm sorry but, if your friend is married to someone who would allow her to be treated that way...I just.can't.even. And this has been going on for years? Nope. Husband should have confronted his family years ago. Leave and cleave.I can't imagine a time when my DH would allow anything of that nature to go unaddressed...even when we were 18 and 22yo elope-ees and not especially popular with our fams. This is what separates men from boys.

 

ETA: Jeeze, now that I think on it some more, I'd also expect my DH to speak with his brother so as not to allow their wives to be pitted against one another and used as pawns in MILs sick games.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Murphy101]

Also, it is entirely possible that the mil just likes the white dil more for reasons that have nothing to do with skin shade. I wouldn't presume it's because one is white and one is Mexican.  It could be more cultural than skin shade?

My mil has zero interest in her grandchildren, any of them, or her own son.  She flies out of state multiple times a year to see her nieces' children and goesn trips with other people, but can't seem to find the "time" or the "energy" to drive 20 minutes to see anyone I my household more than a couple times a year for an hour or so.

Basicly, she likes to spend money and hang out with people who like to spend money and if you can't afford to do that or simply don't enjoy it even if you can - then you aren't going to interest her or her husband.

When we were newly married and later when we were new parents - we both found this attitude baffling and hurtful.  But I've reached a point where I just figure there's better things to do with my life and thankfully we have a community of other people who do care about us.  I have no expectation that I can change them or that my happiness or duty is centered around doing so.

I wish I'd been able to see that sooner.  It would have saved me a lot of a angst.

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Nope my dh wouldn't say anything.  He would figure why bother.  But then again, I don't see a problem either bc why would Mexican DIL want to go on a trip with her jerk bigoted mother in law anyways?

 

My husband won’t say anything either because his older brother is already his mom’s favorite, and we are the same race but different subgroup. BIL’s wife is the “correct” subgroup. My in-laws do believe rather strongly that they are the superior subgroup and they aren’t going to change their thinking in their 80s. 

My in-laws weren’t subtle about being unhappy that my husband was not marrying someone from his subgroup though so we have a valid reason to minimize going anywhere with them. My kids has met my in-laws three times in thirteen years and we paid their airfare each time. So that helps in keeping the distance. My kids are the forgotten grandkids anyway (thank goodness).

[RootAnn]

Sounds like she picked the wrong brother. I really like BIL and not the H right now. Maybe he wasn't paying attention -- I can see that. But not confronting the mom on her favoritism and (now obvious) bigotism (or whatever the proper word is) all these years? Inexcusable.

[GoodGrief]

Husband should say something, but, in my experience, if he has tolerated this up until now, he is unlikely to change. She has to decide for herself whether she is willing to be treated this way. I had to set up some pretty solid boundaries. This did not change anyone, but I did feel safer.

Even with the weird, apparently racist, comment, I would not assume this is about your friend's race. I would strongly suspect borderline personality or narcissism at play with the MIL though. My MIL definitely had blatant favoritism always toward her older son, and as he changed wives, her favor remained with whoever the current wife was.

Edited December 26, 2018 by GoodGrief

[Murphy101]

Look at it this way - maybe dh is used to being hurt by them and experience taught him early in life that there's no benefit to him to confronting them about their hurtful behavior.

What should he say? What is the desired result of saying something to them? Does anyone really think there is something to say that will change the relationships for the better either between son and his mom or dil and mil? 

I'd maybe say something if my kids were around to set an example for them of not letting quiet abuses slide.

But what Mexican friend really needs to do is decide if she wants to do to NY or not.  If she does - then she should be happy they went together and then she should go with either her husband or different female relatives or maybe close friend.  If not, this doesn't matter.  

[cave canem]

55 minutes ago, goldberry said:

I have a friend who is Mexican (that's how she identifies) married to a white man.  They've been married 15+ years.  His parents (inlaws) have never acted very friendly to her and sometimes even stand-offish.  White man's brother (BIL) married white girl (white DIL).  MIL is very gushy over white DIL. In fact, over the last few years, MIL has taken white DIL on some trips, etc.  One of the trips was to New York, meeting extended family.  While my friend and her husband were at a family gathering, MIL starts talking to white DIL about planning another trip to NY with her, in front of my Mexican friend (which is totally rude anyway).  BIL pipes up and says, "Hey, why doesn't (Mexican friend) go with you guys?"

I think I like this guy!

[HomeAgain]

4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Look at it this way - maybe dh is used to being hurt by them and experience taught him early in life that there's no benefit to him to confronting them about their hurtful behavior.

What should he say? What is the desired result of saying something to them? Does anyone really think there is something to say that will change the relationships for the better either between son and his mom or dil and mil? 

I'd maybe say something if my kids were around to set an example for them of not letting quiet abuses slide.

But what Mexican friend really needs to do is decide if she wants to do to NY or not.  If she does - then she should be happy they went together and then she should go with either her husband or different female relatives or maybe close friend.  If not, this doesn't matter.  

There's a lot of truth in this.  My dh was used to his family being a certain way.  It was only when outsiders questioned or told him that it was more messed up than he thought that he got a better perspective of how some of his parents' actions were.  When it started affecting our kids and I started putting my foot down on what they would have to tolerate, he stepped up more.

[goldberry]

Just to clarify, there has been nothing particularly horrible going on the last several years.  My friend (and me too) think it's normal that not everyone is "best friends" with everyone.  It was okay if the mom gets along better with other DIL.  It's rude for her to talk openly about activities where they are excluding my friend, but other than that, such is life, ya know?  I might have expected the husband to address the rudeness, but otherwise don't think he was doing anything really wrong.  MIL was polite but distant *most of the time*.

The racist comment, on the other hand, goes beyond just "I like to hang out with other people".  He claims he didn't fully understand what was being said at the time.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

What should he say? What is the desired result of saying something to them? Does anyone really think there is something to say that will change the relationships for the better either between son and his mom or dil and mil? 

I'd maybe say something if my kids were around to set an example for them of not letting quiet abuses slide.

 

Two things—Brother, thank you for taking up for/asking after my wife when mom suggested the trip. I wasn’t really paying attention and didn’t realize she was being deliberately excluded. I hope that, going forward, you and I can work together to make those kinds of experiences more inclusive as my wife has been feeling estranged for some time.

Also—Mom, I love you. But if you are ever so rude and callous as to exclude my wife from trips and discuss planning them in her presence again, I’m not sure our relationship can remain as it is. Feelings were hurt. Your image, in my eyes, has been tarnished. Things need to change.

It’s not that hard. Put on your adult undies and get to work.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Sneezyone

[PeppermintPattie]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Two things—-Brother, thank you for taking up for/asking after my wife when mom suggested the trip. I wasn’t really paying attention and didn’t realize she was being deliberately excluded. I hope that, going forward, you and I can work together to make those kinds of experiences more inclusive as my wife has been feeling estranged for some time.

Also, Mom, I love you. But if you are ever so rude and callous as to exclude my wife from trips and discuss planning them in her presence again, I’m not sure our relationship can remain as it is. Feelings were hurt. Your image, in my eyes, has been tarnished. Things need to change.

Can I give you my dh' phone number so you can explain this to him?

[MEmama]

I must be missing something. What is husband supposed to say? So what if MIL likes the other DIL better and they make good travel companions? My parents prefer the company of my siblings than to me; what's there to say? Feel differently? 

The weird comment sounds more like maybe the NY friends are the racist ones. Maybe MIL sounds awkward because it can be awkward. Both my parents and my in laws make horribly racist comments--it's embarrassing and clearly wrong to us, but we can't parent them. There's literally zero point in trying at this stage in their lives. 

Not all families are close. Not all families care equally about one another or take interest in all family members. Not all families consider spouses as "real family". Many families carry a ton of baggage, and calling it out often makes it worse, or has no effect at all. By the time we reach adulthood it's generally clear; perhaps BIL simply knows better. 

[goldberry]

16 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

But what Mexican friend really needs to do is decide if she wants to do to NY or not.  If she does - then she should be happy they went together and then she should go with either her husband or different female relatives or maybe close friend.  If not, this doesn't matter.  

 

It's not about wanting to go to NY.  It's about the MIL speaking to her that way and whether either of them (friend or DH) should continue being in her presence.  Also whether DH should make it clear that he is NOT okay with his wife being spoken to that way.  Silence implies agreement (or at least acceptance).

[MEmama]

15 minutes ago, cave canem said:

I think I like this guy!

Why?

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

Why?

 

Because he recognized the exclusion and at least attempted to prevent it. It’s what I would want my kids to do, exemplifies the values we try to instill.

[MEmama]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

 

Because he recognized the exclusion and at least attempted to prevent it. It’s what I would want my kids to do, exemplifies the values we try to instill.

Huh. To me it sounds rude. I would HATE being the DIL stuck in the position of either now being called out as being excluded, or really not wanting to go and now being forced to explain that. 

If it bothers DIL, it's up to her to ask to go on trips. The dynamics have nothing to do with nosy BIL. 

[goldberry]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

I must be missing something. What is husband supposed to say? So what if MIL likes the other DIL better and they make good travel companions? My parents prefer the company of my siblings than to me; what's there to say? Feel differently? 

The weird comment sounds more like maybe the NY friends are the racist ones. Maybe MIL sounds awkward because it can be awkward. Both my parents and my in laws make horribly racist comments--it's embarrassing and clearly wrong to us, but we can't parent them. There's literally zero point in trying at this stage in their lives. 

Not all families are close. Not all families care equally about one another or take interest in all family members. Not all families consider spouses as "real family". Many families carry a ton of baggage, and calling it out often makes it worse, or has no effect at all. By the time we reach adulthood it's generally clear; perhaps BIL simply knows better. 

If it was a case of the NY family being a problem, then I would have expected MIL to address my friend in private the very first trip:  Hey, we are going to visit some extended family, and even though they are family they have some pretty racist views. I'm inviting white DIL but I wanted to let you know because I just don't think you would be comfortable there.  It's awkward and I really apologize.

The way it came out was much more like the MIL who has the problem.  She was clearly not most concerned about my friend's feelings or none of that would have been handled the way it was.  Either she has the same prejudices herself, OR she didn't want to face the racist family member judging HER.  Either way the comment was unacceptable as it was delivered.

Friendship preferences are fine.  They are not an excuse for rudeness or racist comments.

 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, MEmama said:

Huh. To me it sounds rude. I would HATE being the DIL stuck in the position of either now being called out as being excluded, or really not wanting to go and now being forced to explain that. 

If it bothers DIL, it's up to her to ask to go on trips. The dynamics have nothing to do with nosy BIL. 

 Family is family. My family culture makes us beholden to each other and accountable to each other. I would never allow rifts to be created by an elder like that. It makes me proud to see my kids stand up for one another and I hope that continues into adulthood.

[goldberry]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Huh. To me it sounds rude. . 

 

Saying something when someone else is being mistreated or spoken to inappropriately is not rude.  Standing up for someone is not rude.  The MIL is who was being rude.  People often act like that because everyone allows it and no one challenges them.  That's not a positive thing.

Adding: It's not about changing them or parenting them.  It's about defining what is okay in your presence and what is not.

Edited December 26, 2018 by goldberry

[MEmama]

1 minute ago, goldberry said:

If it was a case of the NY family being a problem, then I would have expected MIL to address my friend in private the very first trip:  Hey, we are going to visit some extended family, and even though they are family they have some pretty racist views. I'm inviting white DIL but I wanted to let you know because I just don't think you would be comfortable there.  It's awkward and I really apologize.

The way it came out was much more like the MIL who has the problem.  She was clearly not most concerned about my friend's feelings or none of that would have been handled the way it was.  Either she has the same prejudices herself, OR she didn't want to face the racist family member judging HER.  Either way the comment was unacceptable as it was delivered.

Friendship preferences are fine.  They are not an excuse for rudeness or racist comments.

 

Ok, IRL it was unacceptable. Still, I know in our extended families calling it out wouldn't make any difference. Saying nothing might not be "right", but it absolutely is true (so much experience). 

We gave up any pretense of being close to our extend families decades ago, though.  Their reality might be different. 

[gardenmom5]

why would she want to be close to these people?  if it wasn't her race, it most likely WOULD be something else.  because people like this - if it's not one thing, it's another.  you can't win with them. 

there are mil's/and mother's who do this. all. the. time. to their own children.  

it may or may NOT be related to race.   someone posted  a rant against him by another apartment resident telling him he didn't belong there.  guy and friend getting yelled at are black (they were waiting for their lyft). - however, in response - a woman renting an apartment (on airbnb) in the same building posted a rant at her and her dh by the very same guy  for the very same reason - they "didn't belong there".  she  and her dh are white.  

some people are just jerks - and if it's not one thing, it will be another.

[goldberry]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

why would she want to be close to these people?  if it wasn't her race, it most likely WOULD be something else.  because people like this - if it's not one thing, it's another.  you can't win with them. 

there are mil's/and mother's who do this. all. the. time. to their own children.  

it may or may NOT be related to race.   someone posted  a rant against him by another apartment resident telling him he didn't belong there.  guy and friend getting yelled at are black (they were waiting for their lyft). - however, in response - a woman renting an apartment (on airbnb) in the same building posted a rant at her and her dh by the very same guy  for the very same reason - they "didn't belong there".  she  and her dh are white.  

some people are just jerks - and if it's not one thing, it will be another.

She doesn't want to.  It's about whether or not your husband would think that conversation was okay in his presence.  And, the MIL is who brought up race.  It wasn't vague.

[Storygirl]

My own daughter is Guatemalan and is actually dark enough to be thought to be black, especially in the summer.

I would be livid if anyone said such a thing to her.

I would expect her (imaginary, future) husband to stand up to his family if he heard any of them speaking that way.

That the MIL spends so much more time with the other DIL could be just because they are closer friends. But the comments suggest a racist reason instead, and it would change how I felt about her, if I were the DIL.

[MEmama]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 Family is family. My family culture makes us beholden to each other and accountable to each other. I would never allow rifts to be created by an elder like that. It makes me proud to see my kids stand up for one another and I hope that continues into adulthood.

Not something I can relate to in any way when it comes to extended family. Nice that you have that. (Although I wouldn't want a relationship with any of them from the way it sounds).

[Mbelle]

I would prefer it if my dh addressed this, but non the less I would address it myself if not. It sounded like a conversation mean girls in a high school lunch room would have.  The whole conversation was disrespectful and inconsiderate.  I would set boundries with that kind of thing and it may lead to me not wanting to hang out with them anymore should they not be able to respect them.

 

[SereneHome]

Argghhh, why do I often feel like I go against the crowd...

OK, a few things.  My IL's never liked me (as a matter of fact, my FIL told me two weeks ago that they didn't like me and didn't want their son marrying me, but it turned out OK)

My IL's, including my SIL, have been incredibly rude to me FOR YEARS!  On all kind of subjects and occasions. The stories I can tell....

Never ever have I expected my husband to "fight my battles".  The only problem I had with my husband is when I would "reply" to them and he found it rude and didn't want me to say anything else.  He got over it. So, all is good.

So, to answer OP - no, I would not expect the husband in this story to say anything.  But I will tell you what I did - I completely stopped going to IL's house.  They are still invited to mine bc of my husband and of course, that's where their grand-kids are, but my husband knows in no uncertain terms that ANY rude remarks from them won't end well for them. 

[KungFuPanda]

I’m reading that MIL has definite racists attitudes. I’m glad BIL put her on the spot. I don’t blame the husband for not engaging in that moment because we don’t know what he actually heard. He SHOULD speak to his mother though. She needs to make the effort with her DIL and he definitely needs to have a conversation to determine if she’s willing to put in the work or if they just cut her out of their lives. How would she treat their children?!?!? How could a whole family let this pass and NOT defend the DIL going forward. If they let it blow over, they’re cowards. 

[marbel]

I have problematic in-laws who say stupid hurtful things.  My husband does not always speak up in the way I would like. Sometimes it's because he didn't hear the whole thing, and didn't know the context of what was said. Sometimes he just knows it is pointless. This situation, as I read it, seems like it falls into the "pointless" category. What could the husband say in response to "Well, they're just very prejudiced up in New York."  It sounds like she stated it as a fact, not necessarily as her opinion. If friend's husband called his mother out for it, she could easily cover by saying something like "I don't want to subject her to that."

If it were me, I would tell my husband I was really bothered by the interaction and we would talk it out.  I probably wouldn't want him to say anything to his mother because... what would he say, and what good would it do?   

I guess if I think the husband should say anything, he should ask his mom and the preferred DIL to stop talking about stuff his wife is not included in, in front of his wife.

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

15 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Argghhh, why do I often feel like I go against the crowd...

OK, a few things.  My IL's never liked me (as a matter of fact, my FIL told me two weeks ago that they didn't like me and didn't want their son marrying me, but it turned out OK)

My IL's, including my SIL, have been incredibly rude to me FOR YEARS!  On all kind of subjects and occasions. The stories I can tell....

Never ever have I expected my husband to "fight my battles".  The only problem I had with my husband is when I would "reply" to them and he found it rude and didn't want me to say anything else.  He got over it. So, all is good.

So, to answer OP - no, I would not expect the husband in this story to say anything.  But I will tell you what I did - I completely stopped going to IL's house.  They are still invited to mine bc of my husband and of course, that's where their grand-kids are, but my husband knows in no uncertain terms that ANY rude remarks from them won't end well for them. 

Did they ever suggest that an entire state would be unwelcoming to you because of your race? I think any pretense of personality difference vanished with that comment. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, GoodGrief1 said:

Even with the weird, apparently racist, comment, I would not assume this is about your friend's race. 

This makes no sense. Racist comments are about race, full stop. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 

My husband won’t say anything either because his older brother is already his mom’s favorite, and we are the same race but different subgroup. BIL’s wife is the “correct” subgroup. My in-laws do believe rather strongly that they are the superior subgroup and they aren’t going to change their thinking in their 80s. 

My in-laws weren’t subtle about being unhappy that my husband was not marrying someone from his subgroup though so we have a valid reason to minimize going anywhere with them. My kids has met my in-laws three times in thirteen years and we paid their airfare each time. So that helps in keeping the distance. My kids are the forgotten grandkids anyway (thank goodness).

this is likely the case here - favorite sibling, extraneous sibling.  I don't understand subgroups - and I firmly believe my grandmother considered WASP is an overly broad subgroup for who are OK.  she was all about 'our kind of people" . . . whatever that meant.

 

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Sounds like she picked the wrong brother. I really like BIL and not the H right now. Maybe he wasn't paying attention -- I can see that. But not confronting the mom on her favoritism and (now obvious) bigotism (or whatever the proper word is) all these years? Inexcusable.

that favoristism likely goes back to childhood - and other brother was the favorite and he wasn't - so to him, this is "normal" 

 

(i had to teach my own dh that "normal"  =/= healthy.  and I came from an even worse situation than him.)

1 hour ago, GoodGrief1 said:

Husband should say something, but, in my experience, if he has tolerated this up until now, he is unlikely to change. She has to decide for herself whether she is willing to be treated this way. I had to set up some pretty solid boundaries. This did not change anyone, but I did feel safer.

Even with the weird, apparently racist, comment, I would not assume this is about your friend's race. I would strongly suspect borderline personality or narcissism at play with the MIL though. My MIL definitely had blatant favoritism always toward her older son, and as he changed wives, her favor remained with whoever the current wife was.

same here.  I'd wager this is favoritism of one son over the other, and wife just happened to marry the unfavored son.  and that kind of favoristims goes back to infancy - and they grow up not knowing any different.  you're not allowed to stand up for yourself without bringing down mama's (or grandmama's) wrath.  so you just don't.

My grandmother was a flaming racist.  my brother was the golden child.  His 2nd  (ex)wife is latina - I cannot ever remember my grandmother saying anything bad about her.  but she certainly said lots of nasty things about his first wife  after they divorced.  she's white.

she also made many disparaging remarks about my dh (white) - because I was the scapegoat, and how dare I marry well.  (not kidding - one WEEK after my wedding, dh had to go out of town, and she tried to convince me he was fooling around on the side.  "becasue everybody does it".)

35 minutes ago, goldberry said:

She doesn't want to.  It's about whether or not your husband would think that conversation was okay in his presence.  And, the MIL is who brought up race.  It wasn't vague.

I would expect (as in "he should") back his wife, and protect her from his mother's games - because this is a game common among those with a personality disorder.  I wouldn't be surprised if his brother has always been the more favored child.  I would "expect" (as in - he should) be willing to enact - and enforce - boundaries with his mother to protect his wife.  he needs to be one with his wife.

I would also expect (that he won't) because he grew up with it, probably things it's normal, and has been conditioned to keep his mouth shut.   to the point, he probably doens't even notice the mistreatment anymore.

he does need to be more aware of his mother's games - sounds like his brother IS noticing (which is promising).  they need to stick together, as she notices she's being called out, she will try to separate them.  

[Rosie_0801]

I think Husband should have said "Hey, are you being racist towards my wife?" and, depending on the response said "Let's go, Love" and possibly nuzzled her neck a bit in front of everyone if the response from MIL was *really* rude.

And White SIL should invite Mexican SIL to NY and post lots of pictures on FB so their MIL can see them having fun.

[gardenmom5]

57 minutes ago, goldberry said:

She doesn't want to.  It's about whether or not your husband would think that conversation was okay in his presence.  And, the MIL is who brought up race.  It wasn't vague.

and yet - she was at christmas with them . . . .

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

(i had to teach my own dh that "normal"  =/= healthy. And...

he does need to be more aware of his mother's games - sounds like his brother IS noticing (which is promising).  they need to stick together, as she notices she's being called out, she will try to separate them.  

 

All of this. It really doesn’t matter why there is disparate treatment. My response would be the same in either case. I’ve seen this movie play out as my mother and her more favored siblings are now estranged since their last parent’s death.

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, goldberry said:

Just to clarify, there has been nothing particularly horrible going on the last several years.  My friend (and me too) think it's normal that not everyone is "best friends" with everyone.  It was okay if the mom gets along better with other DIL.  It's rude for her to talk openly about activities where they are excluding my friend, but other than that, such is life, ya know?  I might have expected the husband to address the rudeness, but otherwise don't think he was doing anything really wrong.  MIL was polite but distant *most of the time*.

The racist comment, on the other hand, goes beyond just "I like to hang out with other people".  He claims he didn't fully understand what was being said at the time.

 

I think it would have been fine for anyone there to laugh at mil and say something like, "Yeah.  I don't think the entire state of NY is what's racist, but even it's true - why would you choose to visit racists? Because that's something that certainly makes ME rethink hanging out with someone."

BUT it's also entirely okay for the actual offended party to not saying anything.  It's entirely okay for them to go home and tell dh that instead and just quietly decide they have better things to devote energy to in their lives.

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Two things—Brother, thank you for taking up for/asking after my wife when mom suggested the trip. I wasn’t really paying attention and didn’t realize she was being deliberately excluded. I hope that, going forward, you and I can work together to make those kinds of experiences more inclusive as my wife has been feeling estranged for some time.

Also—Mom, I love you. But if you are ever so rude and callous as to exclude my wife from trips and discuss planning them in her presence again, I’m not sure our relationship can remain as it is. Feelings were hurt. Your image, in my eyes, has been tarnished. Things need to change.

It’s not that hard. Put on your adult undies and get to work.

 

I don't think there is anything rude or callous about discussing the things we do in life.  I went to Cozumel with one of my best friends.  We had a blast and anyone we told about it before or after was not excluded from sharing in our happiness unless they chose to be.  I have 11 kids and they all do different things and it's okay to talk about it all around family and friends.  If someone wishes they could go, they need to speak up and see if we can work together to make that happen or simply accept that they are in a time of life when a trip wouldn't work for them.  Family and friends should be able to share joy and sorrow and life happenings openly and honestly.

1 hour ago, goldberry said:

 

It's not about wanting to go to NY.  It's about the MIL speaking to her that way and whether either of them (friend or DH) should continue being in her presence.  Also whether DH should make it clear that he is NOT okay with his wife being spoken to that way.  Silence implies agreement (or at least acceptance).

 

Silence can imply agreement.  It can also imply acceptance in a good way - such as someone just doesn't give a damn about soandso's opinion anymore and has decided to not waste energy on a non-relationship.  Hand it to Jesus and let it go is a valid relationship strategy.

5 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Did they ever suggest that an entire state would be unwelcoming to you because of your race? I think any pretense of personality difference vanished with that comment. 

 

Not necessarily.  Mil being a jerk is a big personality difference. 

[SereneHome]

28 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Did they ever suggest that an entire state would be unwelcoming to you because of your race? I think any pretense of personality difference vanished with that comment. 

I am not sure I understand - it's not about pretense of any sort, it's about who should or should not be saying anything in this type of situation.

But.... as a matter of fact, they told me that my ideas from my old country are stupid and crazy, in America "we do things differently" and they can't welcome me into the family if I don't do what they think I should be doing.

Does it count??

[Sneezyone]

15 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

I think it would have been fine for anyone there to laugh at mil and say something like, "Yeah.  I don't think the entire state of NY is what's racist, but even it's true - why would you choose to visit racists? Because that's something that certainly makes ME rethink hanging out with someone."

BUT it's also entirely okay for the actual offended party to not saying anything.  It's entirely okay for them to go home and tell dh that instead and just quietly decide they have better things to devote energy to in their lives.

 

I don't think there is anything rude or callous about discussing the things we do in life.  I went to Cozumel with one of my best friends.  We had a blast and anyone we told about it before or after was not excluded from sharing in our happiness unless they chose to be.  I have 11 kids and they all do different things and it's okay to talk about it all around family and friends.  If someone wishes they could go, they need to speak up and see if we can work together to make that happen or simply accept that they are in a time of life when a trip wouldn't work for them.  Family and friends should be able to share joy and sorrow and life happenings openly and honestly.

 

Silence can imply agreement.  It can also imply acceptance in a good way - such as someone just doesn't give a damn about soandso's opinion anymore and has decided to not waste energy on a non-relationship.  Hand it to Jesus and let it go is a valid relationship strategy.

 

Not necessarily.  Mil being a jerk is a big personality difference. 

 

If you are inviting a DIL to visit extended family (obv, related by marriage) and not your other DIL, and discussing planning a similar trip to the same place, that’s clearly exclusionary and rude.

My aunt takes her grandkids to Disney on the occasion of their 7th birthday. Taking Gkids 1-7 and, after skipping/not taking 8-10, openly discusses an upcoming trip with Gkids 11-13 in front of 8-10. That is rude and callous. No one would find that OK. That’s what MIL did. And when called on it, she blamed NY racism. Smh

I don’t think it’s necessary or required for the offended party to speak up but I would be sorely disappointed In my spouse if he didn’t and MORTIFIED if his brother did so while he remained silent.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Sneezyone

[Murphy101]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

If you are inviting a DIL to visit extended family (obv, related by marriage) and not your other DIL, and discussing planning a similar trip to the same place, that’s clearly exclusionary and rude.

My aunt takes her grandkids to Disney on the occasion of their 7th birthday. Taking Gkids 1-7 and, skipping 8-10, while discussing an upcoming trip with 11-13 is rude. No one would find that OK.

I don’t think it’s necessary or required for the offended party to speak up but I would be sorely disappointed In my spouse if he didn’t and MORTIFIED if his brother did so while he remained silent.

 

Meh.  I wouldn't be phased by the Disney thing UNLESS she always excluded the 8-10. If she did something else or had a change in finances when they were 7 or what all other possibility that can happen in life - we'd be over it.  Children are not handled with the same expectations as grown people who are expected to be in control of their own decisions and relationships.

But grown people are not little kids.

If the Mexican dil doesn't want to go to NY and or doesn't want to go on a trip with mil - then it's petty to be upset about white dil doing it.

If Mexican dil does want to go - she doesn't need mil for it.

If Mexican dil does want a trip with mil - she can discuss planning a trip for the two of them without white dil.

Or maybe she should consider planning a girls trip with white dil and not mil.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Meh.  I wouldn't be phased by the Disney thing UNLESS she always excluded the 8-10. If she did something else or had a change in finances when they were 7 or what all other possibility that can happen in life - we'd be over it.  Children are not handled with the same expectations as grown people who are expected to be in control of their own decisions and relationships.

But grown people are not little kids.

If the Mexican dil doesn't want to go to NY and or doesn't want to go on a trip with mil - then it's petty to be upset about white dil doing it.

If Mexican dil does want to go - she doesn't need mil for it.

If Mexican dil does want a trip with mil - she can discuss planning a trip for the two of them without white dil.

Or maybe she should consider planning a girls trip with white dil and not mil.

 

That is so sad. If there were a financial change, my aunt would still go in order. She would not skip them. She has two DILs and 13 grands. They all went. When family trips are planned, all are*invited* on the same terms. Folks may choose not to go, but the hand of friendship is extended. This attitude is so sad to me. Lotta dysfunction out there.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Sneezyone

[catz]

I think it's absolutely fine for MIL and white DIL to go on a trip.  But no it absolutely should not be discussed in mixed company.  I taught my kids that rule round about age 5.  And I'm suspect BIL was just calling out that as bad behavior instinctively and didn't actually think MIL would be suddenly be super inclusive.   That is just straight out rude and I think when it's someone you have to deal with regularly it's fine if it's called out.  The fact that she went into some sort of racist mini rant after the fact is just weird.  

MIL could have just taken the hint, shut her yap and changed the subject.  

Edited December 27, 2018 by FuzzyCatz

[prairiewindmomma]

If I were your friend, I would thank my lucky stars I didn't have to go to NY with them. I'm upset for her that 1. MIL said that, 2. dh said nothing, and 3. anyone else in that room that heard that said nothing.

Cr@p like that has gone down in my dh's family--my heart goes out to your friend.

[Murphy101]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

That is so sad. If there were a financial change, my aunt would still go in order. She would not skip them. She has two DILs and 13 grands. They all went. When family trips are planned, all are*invited* on the same terms. Folks may choose not to go, but the hand of friendship is extended. This attitude is so sad to me.

 

What attitude? Finances and health and life change.  Circumstances change.  What if a kid didn't want to go? Myself and at least 3 of my children would very much hate a trip to Disney.  My parents are both dead, so if they'd started that tradition, none of my younger kids would have had that experince.  Recognizing that life isn't fair or that children have different needs and wants from each other but that such things are not what good relationships are based on is not sad.

ETA: I suppose if aunt said she just didn't want to take "those" particular children I would indeed be pissed off and I would not want to associate with her anymore.  I doubt I would let her take "those" kids or any others anywhere in the future.  Because I wouldn't want my kids spending time with "that kindness of person".

Edited December 27, 2018 by Murphy101

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

 

What attitude? Finances and health and life change.  Circumstances change.  What if a kid didn't want to go? Myself and at least 3 of my children would very much hate a trip to Disney.  My parents are both dead, so if they'd started that tradition, none of my younger kids would have had that experince.  Recognizing that life isn't fair or that children have different needs and wants from each other but that such things are not what good relationships are based on is not sad.

 

This wasn’t about changed circumstances. It was about deliberate exclusion and not extending an offer.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Sneezyone