Christmas Tree Syndrome? (illness, mold, etc) WWYD?

[ktgrok]

So, aside from the PANDAS/PANS possibility for my son, we also have had a respiratory something going through the house. Sinus stuff, nagging cough, voice is hoarse, exhaustion. Both my my husband and I said, separately, that we were waking up feeling like we were hung over even though we hadn't been drinking. I'm a bit better this morning, but still tired. Still having that cough - not bad, just there off and on. Coughing up some mucus, not a ton. DS 6 has been sick since last Sunday, I think I started the same day, DD1 started later and is doing better so shortest duration but not 100 percent, same with DD8. DH has just been fighting it off so no real cough but hoarse voice, some sinus stuff, tired, etc. As a child I couldn't have a real christmas tree, as I'd get sick every year from it, but as an adult I've been fine until this year - but this feels similar. (has asthma as a child, outgrew it). This all started after we got the tree. 

I'd still say just coincidence, but now both my cats are coughing! The one cat has allergy issues, so for him to be licking his fur off, cough, etc isn't TOO out of the ordinary but it's worse than usually for sure - I actually took him to the vet yesterday and she prescribed antihistamines and antibiotics in case there is secondary bacteria. But last night the other cat was coughing too, and he NEVER coughs. 

So now I'm wondering if we are all reacting to mold spores from the tree. What I'm reading says that it isn't an allergy to the tree itself, but to the mold that can grow on it - that the longer it is in the house the higher the mold spores in the house. 

And yet, we spend $80 on this darned tree (day after Thanksgiving) and looking online, to get an artificial tree that would satisfy us live tree snobs is going to be at least $95-$125, and that's on sale. Not to mention the hassle of underrating this one (I guess we'd do it outside to avoid shaking ore mold spores into the house?) and redecorating a new one. Ugh. 

And of course, it COULD be coincidence that was are all having respiratory issues, even the cats. 

So do I just wait it out, or do I shell out the money and time and switch out the tree? 

[MercyA]

Get that thing out of the house. It's not worth it. The cats are the clincher for me. 

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.  

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Get that thing out of the house. It's not worth it. The cats are the clincher for me. 

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.  

Ugh. 

The other cat I only heard coughing last night, but I think that's  a thing, to cough at night? And my lungs are not right. I can tell...I outgrew my asthma mostly, but you don't forget that feeling of "almost normal, but not quite", you know? And the cat thing could be viral, but it would be weird to both spike at the same time....they've been previously exposed to the common cat respiratory stuff so it's not like they would be catching it as a new illness. And the antihistamine is working - the one that has been coughing the most didn't cough at all last night for the first night after getting an antihistamine pill....which tells me probably not viral, right? AND he's licking the fur off his belly which he usually does at a different time of year. Hell. 

I may wait and do it tomorrow when DH is at work and just see if he notices, lol. He's NOT going to be happy if I make him do  it. He's already not going to be happy about paying for another tree. Although I guess its a net win since we won't have to buy one next year. Also, he LOVES the fresh tree thing (so do I, but I love breathing more). 

And we have a whole tradition around getting it...there is a mom and pop place about 30 minutes away that has a petting zoo, hayrides, bounce thing, zip line, pony rides, a fire with Smore's kits and kettle corn, etc. I guess we could still go and just not get a tree. Maybe get a wreath that goes outside, lol. 

[regentrude]

Do you have a porch or other place outside where you can stick the tree? I'd set it out as it is and see if your symptoms improve.

[Bambam]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Do you have a porch or other place outside where you can stick the tree? I'd set it out as it is and see if your symptoms improve.

I agree. I'd just move the tree outside. That way you do not have to get another tree - you can just look at it outside and find another place to pile presents. 

But, unless you all get better *immediately* after the tree is removed (which I would doubt is likely), I don't know if you would know for sure if it is the tree or just some virus running through the family. In Texas, people get the "crud" (local name) which has all the symptoms you list - and the cough hangs on and on and on (sorta like the neverending cough). 

[hjffkj]

Did you cut down the tree yourself or was it a pre-cut tree?  The way they transport and store pre-cut trees is what promotes mold growth.  Also,  consider using an air purifier in the room the tree is in, if you really think it is the tree.  It is probably just as likely that you guys have a cold that is going around though.

[SquirrellyMama]

Re:cost

You'll be paying $80 every year for the live trees. The fake tree will only cost you the $125 once. 

Kelly

[gardenmom5]

if it's a chance it's the tree - I'd get it out.  one thing some friends did, which is a possibility for you this year - they put it on the deck outside the sliding door so they could still see it.   the presents were in the house, and the only decorations were the lights.

[jg_puppy]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So now I'm wondering if we are all reacting to mold spores from the tree. What I'm reading says that it isn't an allergy to the tree itself, but to the mold that can grow on it - that the longer it is in the house the higher the mold spores in the house. 

 

This describes my husband. He is fine around live trees, but is allergic to the mold that grows on the trees after they are cut.  

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Do you have a porch or other place outside where you can stick the tree? I'd set it out as it is and see if your symptoms improve.

That's what I'm thinking. I have a friend who does an outdoor tree every year because their place is too small, so you can just pretend it's a thing. You're trendy.

We had a tree that made me react horribly one year. We haven't had a problem since, but I sniffled and sneezed through that whole season. My friends with asthma kids all do artificial trees.

[Wheres Toto]

Dh always said he would have a live tree until he was too old and decrepit to go out and get one.  Then I finally noticed a pattern of ds getting sick every single year when we had the tree up.  My allergies would also get worse each year but I basically have year round allergies and I'm better medicated.   We bought a very good artificial tree after Christmas the year we noticed and ds has been fine since.

[PeterPan]

https://www.balsamhill.com/c/artificial-christmas-trees-on-sale Balsam Hill is still having sales. Just order one. We had done real trees (and big ones too, like 16+', often two trees) and we finally took the plunge last year. Nobody comes in my house and cries that they look fake. Get the UNLIT trees and you won't have any grief from bulbs dying sooner than you wanted. They come in so many beautiful types. If you use their filters and narrow it down to unlit and then "most realistic" you'll probably be very happy. I have two, a 10' and an 8 1/2', and I had told dh maybe we'd try a real tree and only put up one of the trees. He's like nope, these are fine, let's keep everyone well. 

Fwiw, there are some ways to clear the mold off before you bring the tree into your house. It's not your imagination thinking that's the problem. It's something about washing it down with bleach water and drying it thoroughly. Sorry, we have snow this time of year, can't be WASHING my stinkin tree, lol. Maybe in Florida you can, but the ship has already sailed on that. Really though, these high end artificials aren't so bad. Cheaper than doctor trips for pneumonia.

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Bonus to this plan is that you can hang bird feed for ornaments. 

Actually, I know someone who intentionally buys a live tree to decorate on her porch! I hadn't thought of it, but you're right that could be a charming compromise.

[PeterPan]

https://www.balsamhill.com/p/european-fir?sku=2807884  I so need this tree, so adorable. At 5 1/2' it's only $299. So adorable. 

[marbel]

We were live tree snobs, till we figured out one of our kids was sick every year from the tree. We got a fake tree and have never looked back. I love the convenience, not spending $$ every year, and of course that the kid is not miserable all during the season.

 You could try taking all the decorations off, taking it outside, and hosing it off, and letting it dry (assuming you have dry weather) but that may not even  help.

I'm on team get rid of the tree.  Find a new tradition.  Y'all will adjust.  

I'm not feeling as flippant (or harsh?) as I sound. But really, there's no question if you are sick!

Edited December 9, 2018 by marbel

[ktgrok]

Outside isn't an issue as there is nowhere rainproof to put it. Our ornaments would all be ruined. The patio roof isn't fully waterproof, and rain tends to blow sideways in Florida anyway. 

I brought it up to DH, and he's pretty upset about the idea of going artificial, but he'll deal with it if I make the call. He "hates everything about the idea" and suggested buying an air filter for the room. But I'm not sure continuing to put mold spores out and then hoping the filter catches them is really sufficient?

[MercyA]

4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Outside isn't an issue as there is nowhere rainproof to put it. Our ornaments would all be ruined. The patio roof isn't fully waterproof, and rain tends to blow sideways in Florida anyway. 

I brought it up to DH, and he's pretty upset about the idea of going artificial, but he'll deal with it if I make the call. He "hates everything about the idea" and suggested buying an air filter for the room. But I'm not sure continuing to put mold spores out and then hoping the filter catches them is really sufficient?

I don't think an air filter is going to cut it. The longer you leave the tree inside, the more the mold is going to reproduce and put out spores. 

I'd definitely run an air filter if you can after you remove the tree. I'd wrap it in plastic tarps before you take it out so the spores don't spread all over the house. If you can, I'd also block off the room with a tarp while you clean in there. You're going to want to wipe down all surfaces, the ornaments, the lights, etc. and vacuum really well (curtains, upholstery, etc.).

I know it sucks! But just think, never again! Artificial trees are glorious, IMHO.

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I don't think an air filter is going to cut it. The longer you leave the tree inside, the more the mold is going to reproduce and put out spores. 

I'd definitely run an air filter if you can after you remove the tree. I'd wrap it in plastic tarps before you take it out so the spores don't spread all over the house. If you can, I'd also block off the room with a tarp while you clean in there. You're going to want to wipe down all surfaces, the ornaments, the lights, etc. and vacuum really well (curtains, upholstery, etc.).

I know it sucks! But just think, never again! Artificial trees are glorious, IMHO.

Ugh, I hadn't thought about how the ornaments and such would all be contaminated. Blergh! Would wiping them with wipes or something help I wonder? 

I don't have drapes, and was going to get rid of the area rug anyway this weekend as it stinks of dog, and the furniture has washable slip covers, thankfully. 

I grew up with artificial trees due to my own allergies/asthma, and too many years of being sick on Christmas. I was so excited to have real trees again as an adult, but it seems that might be coming to an end. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Ktgrok

[regentrude]

26 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Outside isn't an issue as there is nowhere rainproof to put it. Our ornaments would all be ruined.

take off those ornaments that can't get wet. Then put tree outside and decorate with stuff suitable for the outdoors?

[marbel]

Yeah, and air filter isn't going to help if you leave the mold in the room. 

Your husband is being unreasonable and I hope he comes around quickly. I mean, I know at this point it's a hassle and a disappointment.  How much hassle and disappointment would it be if everyone is really sick on Christmas?  

I will say, though, that I do know a few people who would rather everyone be sick than have a fake tree. I have a close relative who is like that. She was aghast when we went fake over my kid's allergies. She just thought eh, he can live with it for a few weeks. ETA I'm not saying your husband is quite like that. Just saying that the tradition of a real tree is very important to a lot of people.  

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by marbel

[ktgrok]

He did say that he of course hates everyone being sick more, so he’s not completely unreasonable. I think a lot of this is tied up in his childhood. His mom had lots of fig trees that were all decorated to feed him and he was an allowed to touch them. So our tree, a real tree with homemade and meaningful ornaments that don’t match each other has been very special to him. But he’ll go with whatever I say, LOL. He’s good that way.

[Guest]

I’m prejudiced in favor of artificial in the first place, but I would absolutely not dither on this for one minute longer. Live tree would go and that would be one possibility eliminated for the rest of my life. 

I like artificials because once you have spent the money, you are finished buying trees for years and years and years. You also don’t have to carve out a time to go get a tree (only bring it out from wherever you store it) and you don’t have to struggle to keep it alive for months. 

[ktgrok]

So I just talk to my mother and she has an artificial tree that we can borrow! So no money out, just time. This way we can take it down and if it doesn’t help LOL. We haven’t spent anything. I think that’s a compromise my husband can live with.  My oldest is over there visiting and will be coming back later today and bring it with him.

[Guest]

Also, re: husbands, when we first got married, dh wanted live trees so badly, because they had an artificial and it was ugly with a crooked top section. So, he always thought of artificials that way. Well, I was not big on live because I see it as wasteful of a tree. But for a couple years we got them. They were disappointing because they were heavy, sheddy, dirty and we could only afford a 5’ tree.

One year, he tried to make a concession by buying a live rootball tree. So, the first problem was that the frozen rootball weighed about two hundred pounds and we could barely get the tree in the house to begin with. And it made a huge, dirty mess doing so. Then it was the Winter of Ice and there was no possibility of planting it until, like, May. At which point, it was dead. 

After that, he agree with me and we bought a huge 9’ artificial. We have never looked back; he is even pro-fake tree now. 

[marbel]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

 Well, I was not big on live because I see it as wasteful of a tree.

I'm not arguing with you at all, but just making a side comment.  I know a lot of people think of it this way. But I see Christmas trees as a crop. They are a farmed product that is consumed, basically, right? When we had real trees, we either had them picked up by the city which turned them into compost, which the city has free for the taking to anyone who can haul it off. Or, back in another life, we tossed it into our woods and let it rot and compost itself (albeit slowly!) there. 

I know a few people in Oregon who are vehemently anti-fake tree because real trees help keep farmers in business, and fake trees use more energy to manufacture... 

Probably the wrong thread, but, ya know, evolving conversations....

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, marbel said:

I'm not arguing with you at all, but just making a side comment.  I know a lot of people think of it this way. But I see Christmas trees as a crop. They are a farmed product that is consumed, basically, right? When we had real trees, we either had them picked up by the city which turned them into compost, which the city has free for the taking to anyone who can haul it off. Or, back in another life, we tossed it into our woods and let it rot and compost itself (albeit slowly!) there. 

I know a few people in Oregon who are vehemently anti-fake tree because real trees help keep farmers in business, and fake trees use more energy to manufacture... 

Probably the wrong thread, but, ya know, evolving conversations....

Yeah, I’m aware of that view. I’m also big on waste reduction and I do agree that the compostability of live trees is a point in their favor. But on the other hand, artificial trees aren’t disposed of annually, so it’s debatable if that is so bad. My mattress on my bed is not compostable, for example, but since I use it for fifteen years, it’s not as galling a waste as it would be if I threw away a mattress ever year. 

I understand seeing it as a crop. There are Christmas tree farms right here where I live and my ILs talked about turning MIL’s farm into one. Still, for me, personally - just talking gut level here - it bothers me that these beautiful trees grow for years to be chopped down, used to jolly up someone’s house for one holiday, and then they are compost. It’s not growing wheat to feed people bread. It serves no purpose but fleeting ornamentation and there is something about that I find troubling.

I’m not high-horsing, though. It’s just where I land personally. 

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Ugh, I hadn't thought about how the ornaments and such would all be contaminated. Blergh! Would wiping them with wipes or something help I wonder? 

If it were me, I think I'd just wipe them all off with a damp cloth (rinsing the cloth often) and then dry them with another. Apparently vinegar is the least harsh mold-killer, so maybe a water/vinegar solution for some, if it wouldn't damage them? 

So glad you're able to borrow an artificial tree this year! Hope you all feel better soon.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So I just talk to my mother and she has an artificial tree that we can borrow! So no money out, just time. This way we can take it down and if it doesn’t help LOL. We haven’t spent anything. I think that’s a compromise my husband can live with.  My oldest is over there visiting and will be coming back later today and bring it with him.

I'm glad you figured out a compromise. I will tell you though that the reason I went with $$$$$$$$$ trees was because my dh is really that particular. If this is a brush style tree, your dh probably isn't going to be happy with it. Maybe he'll deal, but the "most realistic" listed trees on that Balsam Hill site are going to be a plastic needle, not the toilet brush stuff, and they'll look really, really nice. 

So if it's a nice tree, I'd borrow, but if it's a brush tree I'd just surprise him and go all the way with the super nice tree. I'll attach a pic of what I'm talking about. This is our taller tree, not decorated yet. You'll see trees with the pvc/plastic needles in the stores, but the percentage will be lower. When you get the higher Baslam Hill trees, they can be 80-90% the natural needles, which just makes for a really nice tree that isn't offensive at all.

Edited December 9, 2018 by PeterPan

[Pen]

Get rid of it if you haven’t yet.  In addition to mold there could also be fungicides or other problem chemicals .  

We don’t have any tree, real or artificial indoors.  Nor wreaths, nor poinsettias, nor...

Each person and dog has a stocking.   

[marbel]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

<snip>

My mattress on my bed is not compostable, for example, but since I use it for fifteen years, it’s not as galling a waste as it would be if I threw away a mattress ever year. 

<snip>

What?!  You don't sleep on cotton ticking stuffed with corn husks?

Another illusion shattered.  :-)

 

I hope you know I am joking. I get you. There is no need for high horses anywhere in the Christmas tree debate. There are good points on each 'side.'

[Katy]

As a mattres spin off, a couple of years ago I was reading that in Italy mattresses last forever.  As in, they're stuffed with wool and every 5ish years the mattress lady comes and cuts them open, moves around and refluffs and adds more wool roving, and then stitches them back shut. I think this was something I saw linked to on Pinterest about a lady who sewed her own wool mattress, but I don't recall the details.  I just thought it was interesting, and wondered how gross it might get, with dust mites, etc.

[KungFuPanda]

I'd cover the tree with plastic or something for a few days until everyone recovered.  Then uncover the tree.  If it was just a bug, the tree shouldn't reactivate the symptoms.  If everyone's symptoms repeat, then I'd start giving the tree the side eye.  

[lailasmum]

I'm another one who was a tree snob and switched to a real looking fake tree. It's been a good decision and we actually have a small sprig of real Christmas tree in our tree at the moment as I just happened to pick up a piece of the ground a couple of days ago and It's really hard to find the real bit amongst the fake branches they're so realistic. I got mine on sale and we've had it for 4 yrs so far.

[AbcdeDooDah]

We switched to fake tree last year since DD has bad allergies. Dh complained then and this year, too, when we took it out. He's the one who look like a tree is more important than his daughter's comfort so I just ignore it. 😅

[ktgrok]

Old teee gone, artificial one up. 

[Katy]

Does it seem to be helping?

 

[vonfirmath]

We bought our current fake tree by going out to Wal-mart the day after Christmas and picking one up. IT's a great tree and we got a great price when they were clearancing out.(We could have gotten a better deal by waiting but we wanted more selection)

 

We got a real tree one year because my husband had a lot of "the tree must be real" ideas. It was so much hassle even he was ready to go with fake after that. (And I don't prefer the smell) I'm glad now because we deal with so many seasonal allergies I'm sure the tree would sometimes be a problem.

 

[shawthorne44]

On 12/9/2018 at 10:44 AM, Where's Toto? said:

Dh always said he would have a live tree until he was too old and decrepit to go out and get one.  Then I finally noticed a pattern of ds getting sick every single year when we had the tree up.  My allergies would also get worse each year but I basically have year round allergies and I'm better medicated.   We bought a very good artificial tree after Christmas the year we noticed and ds has been fine since.

 

That same thing happened to my mother when I was a kid.   And she LOVES Christmas, and she was always getting sick for the entire Christmas season.   

Wait until after Christmas to buy a tree.    I love my fake tree so much that I re-permanently strung lights on it rather than replace it.   

[Bootsie]

For a number of years we had an artificial tree.  With various allergies, and already having allergy problems this time of year, we couldn't imagine what it would be like with a real tree.  One year we were visiting friends with a real tree over the holidays.  We noticed that we had no allergy problems--we now have a real tree.  The dust that accumulates over the years on an artificial tree is what causes major problems for us.

[ktgrok]

We are already doing better!!! Even the cats stopped coughing!

And thankfully my mom is a bit over the top regarding dust, so the artificial one she had was basically hermetically sealed, lol. She has my dad tape up ever seam of the box it is in with packing tape so it is airtight. 

It looks fine, and has lots of memories of Christmases past at their house, so no worries for now. If we get our own we will do it after Christmas. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I thought of you today, Katie.  I put my tree on the porch and bought an artificial.  We started buying real trees 3 years ago DH and oldest DD are sick from Thanksgiving until Christmas and they also both have terrible allergies to trees and molds.  I love a real tree but I honestly think it was making them sick.