A surprisingly contentious Tightwad controversy

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I don't have enough energy to actually JUDGE another person over taking a single serving of *whatever* and then saving it rather than using it.  

But I could never do it.  

[Ausmumof3]

I’m not a fan because it’s a tonne of little paper sachets instead of one big one - more trees more labour to produce. 

That said I probably shouldn’t be because we eat way too many muesli bars, and my dd has a kirigami habit.

[moonflower]

I wonder if one could think of these things like this: would the owner, knowing I would do this, still want to sell me the coffee?

[SKL]

I am really surprised at how many people have scruples with this.  I mean, we're talking about one or two packets of sugar, right?

If you couldn't bring yourself to do that, for real, then how do you manage things like accidentally cutting corners or parking a little too close to the line?  Do you have nightmares if you realize you forgot to put something in the garbage?  If you take an extra 30 second bathroom break at work?  Do you use the pretty labels that come with charity promotions even when you don't donate?  Or do you mail them back so actual donors can have them?

Would you feel the same if this were "free coffee" with optional sweet packets?  (I think that would be harder for me, but I'm not sure - I guess it depends on who's paying for it.  A small nonprofit?  Or Honda Motorcars service?)

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, SKL said:

I am really surprised at how many people have scruples with this.  I mean, we're talking about one or two packets of sugar, right?

If you couldn't bring yourself to do that, for real, then how do you manage things like accidentally cutting corners or parking a little too close to the line?  Do you have nightmares if you realize you forgot to put something in the garbage?  If you take an extra 30 second bathroom break at work?  Do you use the pretty labels that come with charity promotions even when you don't donate?  Or do you mail them back so actual donors can have them?

Would you feel the same if this were "free coffee" with optional sweet packets?  (I think that would be harder for me, but I'm not sure - I guess it depends on who's paying for it.  A small nonprofit?  Or Honda Motorcars service?)

On the first bold: so was I! If anything, I tend to be more scrupulous than average in most cases, but this doesn’t bother me. (Although I do think sugar is so cheap it’s logical to buy some and have it on hand for guests.) 

The second bold: hmmm. Yeah, good point. 

[Pawz4me]

5 hours ago, Serenade said:

When you buy a cup of coffee, it includes sugar and/or cream.  As long as the person takes a reasonable portion for 1 serving of coffee or whatever he or she purchased, that is totally ethical and not stealing.  It's no different than buying a cup of coffee, putting in cream and sugar, and then not drinking it after all.  You paid for it and it's yours to do with as you please.  Drink, toss, save, mix your sugar and cream at home, or not, etc, etc.

This is my thinking when I take a few salt and pepper packets. My example is this -- DH and I stop at Wendy's for lunch and I get a baked potato. Most people would probably use a little salt and pepper on a potato. I prefer mine plain. So I feel zero qualms taking a few packets to use in the RV. They're the ones I would have used in the restaurant on my baked potato if I were a normal person. I'm talking maybe a couple of packets of each, not handfuls. And obviously in our case it's not the cost or any concern about being frugal. If one can afford an RV one can afford salt and pepper.  It's purely a space issue. A few of those little packets take up way less space than the smallest salt and pepper shakers. Plus they don't spill.

If we were drive thru types then they'd probably throw loads of packets in the bags. But we tend to go inside. So again -- zero qualms in our situation.

[Teaching3bears]

You should have put"This is no big deal" in your poll. I think a lot of people would have ticked it off because we are talking about tiny sugar packets.

For me ethics has to do with the question of making sure nobody gets hurt. if someone takes the extra sugar packets from a big fast-food chain I really don't think anything bad will happen. Taking the extra sugar packets from a small local business might be unethical because their profit margins are tighter.

If the woman on the tightwad group was given the packets along with her coffee and threw them away instead of using them in the way that she does it would be more unethical because she would be adding to the landfill.

For the cookies after a business meeting example, if the cookies are being used at the next meeting then maybe it is unethical to take some home (or maybe not really) but in most cases the leftovers are thrown out so it is actually much more ethical to bring them all home than let food go to waste.

And, yes, these are all first world problems.

[Kanin]

11 hours ago, Quill said:

Here’s the best line:

😂

Dang! Now I know why I'm not a billionaire! Me and my stupid overspending! 😂

[marbel]

9 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yes. It’s the intent that matters. 

This is what it comes to for me as well.  The woman is taking sugar from one place so she can avoid buying it to use at home.  It's cheap and tacky.  

Many churches (and likely other similar places) have a coffee hour before or after a worship service.  Sometimes I see a dispenser of sugar but more often it's packets of various sweeteners. The coffee/tea is free.  Would it be OK for the person in the OP to take sugar packets home from a place like that? 

[KungFuPanda]

Oh good grief. You are purchasing coffee. Even the smallest mom and pop place won’t begrudge you a sugar packet or two to go with it. Nobody wants to micromanage how you use your particular packets. 

My dh’s Grandmother would clear the table of packets, fill up a jar at home, and make her daughter take it to use. Depression era mindset aside, that’s probably abusing the hospitality a bit. 

[Bluegoat]

I don't understand why people are talking about throwing away packets or not using ones they were given - that wasn't really the question, was it?  The question was, is it ok to take packets you have no intent to use for the coffee you bought.

[KungFuPanda]

26 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

I don't understand why people are talking about throwing away packets or not using ones they were given - that wasn't really the question, was it?  The question was, is it ok to take packets you have no intent to use for the coffee you bought.

If you serve a guest coffee, you are still using it for your coffee that you bought. You could also let your kid use the lid or stir in a craft, without ever putting it on your coffee, and remain innocent of theft or fraud. 

[Bluegoat]

6 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

If you serve a guest coffee, you are still using it for your coffee that you bought. You could also let your kid use the lid or stir in a craft, without ever putting it on your coffee, and remain innocent of theft or fraud. 

 

If I'm serving coffee to a guest, it's coffee I bought and made myself, which didn't include the price of the sugar from the coffee shop.

The owner of the cafe knows that on average, people use so much sugar, and so they average that over the cost of the coffee they sell.  Some may use none, or some may use four.  But if some people are taking it without using it in that coffee, that too will be averaged in.  That affects the price overall for everyone, just like shoplifting does.  The fact that shoplifting is factored into the price of merchandise doesn't mean it is ok to take items from the store because they are already paid for, though people sometimes argue that.  

[happi duck]

This thread surprises me.

I'm not judging anyone.  Take a couple packets, who cares?  But as a discussion?  I think you should not *take* for later.  Saving something *given* for later is fine.  But again, this is just a discussion.

A frugal tip is something one is suggesting that others should also do to save money, correct?  I don't think taking everything you could possibly have considered using should become the norm.

Fwiw: Chick fil a here has signs asking that unused condiments be put back and Culvers has signs asking to use less napkins.  I can't think of which place but I know I've been somewhere where nothing is out, you ask for everything at the counter.  This leads me to believe that these little things add up.

[alisoncooks]

I just think it's stingy. Like, the person is willing to take themselves out and buy a coffee...but they're not willing to drop 99¢ to be a better hostess to a loved one. That's Ebenezer level Scrooge-ness right there. 

[KungFuPanda]

9 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

If I'm serving coffee to a guest, it's coffee I bought and made myself, which didn't include the price of the sugar from the coffee shop.

The owner of the cafe knows that on average, people use so much sugar, and so they average that over the cost of the coffee they sell.  Some may use none, or some may use four.  But if some people are taking it without using it in that coffee, that too will be averaged in.  That affects the price overall for everyone, just like shoplifting does.  The fact that shoplifting is factored into the price of merchandise doesn't mean it is ok to take items from the store because they are already paid for, though people sometimes argue that.  

I respectfully disagree. A condiment that is included in your purchase price is vastly different than merchandise in a store. Coffee costs more at a coffee shop, not because you are paying for rampant sugar theft, but because you are buying cups, lids, cream, sugar, lighting, comfy chairs, a staff etc. 

The person in the op is not costing the cafe owner more. It seems, over his coffee drinking lifetime, he actually costs him less because he doesn’t usually use sugar. It’s completely ridiculous to call this man immoral because he only takes a packet of sugar every 10th time he gets coffee. If he takes two napkins, uses one in the shop and puts the other in his car, he’s STILL not “part of the problem.”

Its not theft morally OR legally. It could be argued that it’s MORE ethical to use your coffee house sugar packet than it is to throw away the extra two dozen soy sauce packets you get with Chinese take-out because resources and nutrients are wasted this way. 

[HS Mom in NC]

It's figured into the cost of the coffee, so no, it's not stealing assuming she's taking the amount of sugar that's been factored in-I'm assuming 1-3 packets.  Neither is taking the shampoos/conditioners from your hotel room that you didn't use during that visit because you paid for them. Once you pay for something, it's yours to do with as you wish.

You can buy a little box of sugar packets at the grocery store for very little.  I have one for one of my sons-in-law because he puts 2 packets in a cup of coffee. Otherwise I have a rectangular, stacking bin of sugar for baking which isn't convenient to keep out when we serve coffee.  My husband doesn't put sugar in his coffee so we don't keep sugar out in a small container.

[Skippy]

What I am surprised about is that it would be considered tacky by many people to serve someone sugar in pack form at your home. I really need to make more of an effort to listen to Miss Manners and Martha Stewart! It makes me wonder how many tacky things I do unknowingly whenever people come over. Ack! 

[Paige]

I don't think it's petty theft as long as you only take what a normal person would use for a normal cup of coffee. I also don't think it's right. It's sketchy not illegal but not right behavior, IMO. 

I wouldn't think someone was a criminal that I couldn't associate with but you'd get a side eye before I moved on and forgot about it.

[happi duck]

3 minutes ago, Skippy said:

What I am surprised about is that it would be considered tacky by many people to serve someone sugar in pack form at your home. I really need to make more of an effort to listen to Miss Manners and Martha Stewart! It makes me wonder how many tacky things I do unknowingly whenever people come over. Ack! 

When we used to host more I thought my little coffee/tea area looked cute and polished with packets!

[istillluvpink]

If it was given to you on a tray or in a bag, yes, it's fine.

If you took it and maybe weren't sure how much you would need/use, fine.

To take more otherwise, well, I wouldn't make a habit of it because of being too cheap to buy it myself.  However I have done it with a couple of things.  Arby's horsey sauce.  We love that stuff and they often don't give us enough.  So we'll ask for extra to have it on hand for next time.  Also you can't buy it in the store.  I've tried and the ones I've bought at the store are not the same.  

Same for honey mustard sauce.  DD loves it and we can't find a brand she likes int the store and when I tried making it myself she also wasn't impressed.  So occasionally she will ask for extra to keep in the fridge in case they forget to give any.  She calls it her honey mustard emergency supply.  

[Tap]

I think it is fine as long as it is the normal amount a person would use in that circumstance.  2 packets, no biggie. 10 packets.....cheap and unethical. 

I can buy a coffee and pour it in my friends cup.  Once I purchase an item, I can do what I want with it.  If I want to dump 2 sugar packets in there along with or without the coffee, again...my choice. 

If I am buying a $4 plain coffee, I can assume that the 2 packets of sugar are already bought and paid for.  

[marbel]

18 minutes ago, Skippy said:

What I am surprised about is that it would be considered tacky by many people to serve someone sugar in pack form at your home. I really need to make more of an effort to listen to Miss Manners and Martha Stewart! It makes me wonder how many tacky things I do unknowingly whenever people come over. Ack! 

Putting out packets of sweetener with a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts logo would look tacky.  Because it would be obvious the person pocketed them while out for coffee.  Just my opinion, obviously, and I am neither Martha Stewart nor Miss Manners, LOL. :-)

[Skippy]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

Putting out packets of sweetener with a Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts logo would look tacky.  Because it would be obvious the person pocketed them while out for coffee.  Just my opinion, obviously, and I am neither Martha Stewart nor Miss Manners, LOL. :-)

I understand, and I could not argue because I am clueless on what is considered proper many times, being a function over form type. But if I had in my possession straws, jellies, sauces, or sugar packets (not "stolen" but because I was given more than I could use) I would not think twice about giving them to a guest to use even if they had a Chick-fil-a logo on it. : )

[Penelope]

16 hours ago, Quill said:

I think she posed this question more to consider the philosophical point; it seemed to be hypothetical later in the thread. She gave an additional example of being at a business meeting where there are cookies. Is it right or wrong to take home a cookie that you do not intend to eat yourself? Like, perhaps you give the cookie to your husband or a friend or a homeless person. 

In that case, I still think it is fine, so long as it is only one person’s allotment. Not sneaking out a tray of cookies, no. But taking home a cookie? I have no problem with that. 

 

The thing is, most of the time, those cookies will go into the dumpster anyway. It is not like they are going to package them up again. I do not think it is wrong to save the cookie that you would have eaten and give it to someone else. 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Skippy said:

What I am surprised about is that it would be considered tacky by many people to serve someone sugar in pack form at your home. I really need to make more of an effort to listen to Miss Manners and Martha Stewart! It makes me wonder how many tacky things I do unknowingly whenever people come over. Ack! 

What I'm surprised about is that people who would care about such things are labeled as "friends." I suppose I'm blessed in the friend department, but mine would not give a rat's patootie if they were served sugar in packets, with or w/o a logo. The people I call friends--well, we've been through life together in all its ups and downs and very good times and really messy bad times. How the sugar is packaged (or whether or not there is any sugar at all) wouldn't be on anyone's radar.

Now, would I hand around the Dunkin Donuts sugar packets to acquaintances? Probably not.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Pawz4me

[Bluegoat]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I respectfully disagree. A condiment that is included in your purchase price is vastly different than merchandise in a store. Coffee costs more at a coffee shop, not because you are paying for rampant sugar theft, but because you are buying cups, lids, cream, sugar, lighting, comfy chairs, a staff etc. 

The person in the op is not costing the cafe owner more. It seems, over his coffee drinking lifetime, he actually costs him less because he doesn’t usually use sugar. It’s completely ridiculous to call this man immoral because he only takes a packet of sugar every 10th time he gets coffee. If he takes two napkins, uses one in the shop and puts the other in his car, he’s STILL not “part of the problem.”

Its not theft morally OR legally. It could be argued that it’s MORE ethical to use your coffee house sugar packet than it is to throw away the extra two dozen soy sauce packets you get with Chinese take-out because resources and nutrients are wasted this way. 

 

What does soy sauce included in a take out meal have to do with taking extra sugar from a cafe?  It might be wrong to throw out the soy sace I suppose, but that doesn't make the sugar either ok or not.  

[Bluegoat]

Do people really think the business owner allocates so many packages per cup into his costs?  Rather than the amount of sugar he actually uses?

[KungFuPanda]

17 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

What does soy sauce included in a take out meal have to do with taking extra sugar from a cafe?  It might be wrong to throw out the soy sace I suppose, but that doesn't make the sugar either ok or not.  

They are both included in the price whether you need/use/want them or not. This man is not immoral because he rarely uses the sugar packets. It’s not at all sketchy to put that packet into something else later even if another person consumes it. 

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

Do people really think the business owner allocates so many packages per cup into his costs?  Rather than the amount of sugar he actually uses?

 

My late granduncle owns a small coffee shop. He estimates that each person average out would use two teaspoons of sugar for each cup of coffee. He also estimates that each 8oz cup of coffee with condensed milk use up a heap teaspoon of condensed milk and charged ten cents more compare to whatever he charge for black coffee. 

When it comes to expenses accounting, how is my granduncle going to be that accurate about the amount he actually use. If he bought a few business size boxes of packet sugar (e.g. Domino Sugar Packets (2000 Count) for $20), whatever is left at the end of the month just gets used the next month and he just tops up the next month when the supply runs low and charge that top up order as next month’s sugar expenses.

There is a McDonalds restaurant here that actually list the number of sugar, creamer, ketchup and chicken nugget sauce given out to the customers in the receipts. That seems rather extreme for accounting of goods used. I don’t know who is interested in those statistics but that particular location has done that for years and a few other locations do that as well. 

[Arcadia]

From a 2011 HuffPost article 

“On recent visits to 35 McDonald’s restaurants south of Central Park, a DNAinfo New York reporter found that at least 15 charged customers who asked for extra ketchup.

Meanwhile, trips and calls to 40 more Mickey D’s in Brooklyn, The Bronx, Queens and Staten Island found no outer-borough restaurants doing the same.

“We want to control condiment cost,” said Rocio Vazquez, manager of a McDonald’s at East 14th Street and First Avenue in the East Village, who has been implementing a ketchup fee since 2011.

At Vazquez’s restaurant, customers get anywhere from one to four packets of ketchup with their meals, depending on the size of the orders. They have to pay an additional quarter per handful of extra packets.

...

In New York City, McDonald’s restaurants all pay the same price for ketchup from The Martin-Brower Company, a supplier in upstate New York. For individual packets, the cost is $21.68 per case of 1,500, or just under 1.5 cents per packet, Martin-Brower said.

Some franchise owners defended the extra-ketchup charge, citing rising real estate and utility prices, an ever-increasing overhead and a tough economy.” https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_3271816

[EKS]

20 hours ago, Quill said:

(Of course, it would be different if we were talking about taking ALL the sugars or a salt shaker.) 

My mother's best friend's husband used to take silverware and salt and pepper shakers.  And he bragged about it and was training his teenage sons to do the same thing.

Thirty-five years later we found out that he was a serial killer. 

ETA:  The serial killer thing isn't a joke, btw.

Edited November 20, 2018 by EKS

[Fawnmoscato]

I believe it to be unethical, but I wouldn't care in the least. Ethics are right or wrong, essentially. But we also live in a world full of gray area. So from an ethics standpoint, it is unethical. But from a practical, real-world standpoint...who cares? 

I'm surprised by responses saying thy would actually judge a person for taking an extra sugar packet. My goodness. 

[Ausmumof3]

I didn’t think anyone was actually judging in a write off the friendship way - just more saying they wouldn’t do it themselves.

on a related note, dh likes to being home the shampoos, conditioners and mini soaps from a hotel room.  None of use can use them because they give us dandruff!  And all that single use plastic - aagh!

on the flip side the hospital I had one of the babies at charged a fee for the use of the maternity pads they provided in the bathroom. (Expensive private hospital).  For some reason this still gets me.  

[Terabith]

Honestly, I think it's a little weird to give guests sugar from the little packets and would just buy a small bag.  I don't think it's exactly unethical to take it, but it does feel a little....tacky maybe?  I don't know.  But honestly, it's not something I would get judgmental about unless someone was scooping up dozens of sugar packets or something.  One or two?  Eh.  Whatever.  

[Bluegoat]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 

My late granduncle owns a small coffee shop. He estimates that each person average out would use two teaspoons of sugar for each cup of coffee. He also estimates that each 8oz cup of coffee with condensed milk use up a heap teaspoon of condensed milk and charged ten cents more compare to whatever he charge for black coffee. 

When it comes to expenses accounting, how is my granduncle going to be that accurate about the amount he actually use. If he bought a few business size boxes of packet sugar (e.g. Domino Sugar Packets (2000 Count) for $20), whatever is left at the end of the month just gets used the next month and he just tops up the next month when the supply runs low and charge that top up order as next month’s sugar expenses.

There is a McDonalds restaurant here that actually list the number of sugar, creamer, ketchup and chicken nugget sauce given out to the customers in the receipts. That seems rather extreme for accounting of goods used. I don’t know who is interested in those statistics but that particular location has done that for years and a few other locations do that as well. 

 

Right.  Well, I think the way you actually estimate this is pretty straightforward.  You discover how much you actually go through each month, say, 400 packs of sugar.  And then you divide that by the number of drinks that you sell which use sugar - say 100.  So you would add the cost of four packs of sugar to each drink.  Of course, in reality the amount people consume varies, and that also includes what gets spoiled from time to time, and what is stolen or otherwise goes astray.

[Catwoman]

19 hours ago, unsinkable said:

This weekend, I heard a woman at a truck stop order a medium coffee with 8 sugars and 4 creams. 

I wondered if there would be room for the coffee.

 

OMG!!! You were in line behind me at the truck stop??? 😉

[Catwoman]

20 hours ago, Quill said:

See? I find this absolutely fascinating! I am in Camp Zero Problem, because the sugar packets are an expected expense and taking it home is not violating anything. (Of course, it would be different if we were talking about taking ALL the sugars or a salt shaker.)

When I get chicken strips at CFA, I don’t use sauce. I don’t even like it. But my kids do. So they give me two sauces and I bring them home. Same for a ketchup packet, if one is put in my bag. I won’t use it. But I wont just throw it away. 

 

I agree.

I have to admit that I find it amazing that anyone would even notice how many sugar packets a person was taking, and am kind of horrified at the idea that anyone would judge a friend for taking a few packets of sugar. It seems like such a non-issue. 

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Skippy said:

What I am surprised about is that it would be considered tacky by many people to serve someone sugar in pack form at your home. I really need to make more of an effort to listen to Miss Manners and Martha Stewart! It makes me wonder how many tacky things I do unknowingly whenever people come over. Ack! 

Well, there you go. 🙂

I don't buy little packets of anything--not Splenda, not Nutrasweet, not sauces or jellies or jams or anything. I don't put bottles of ketchup and mustard on the table, either, unless it's just Mr. Ellie and me having burgers. 🙂 In fact, when I do serve sugar, I usually serve sugar cubes, the rough-cut kind.

If I went to your house and you put bottles of ketchup and packets of sugar on the table, I would say "thank you" and use them, because I am not the condiment police. 🙂

[Lady Florida.]

I kept thinking and thinking about it and trying to decide if I think it's ethical or unethical. Then I realized that if I have to think about it that hard I probably already think it's wrong and am subconsciously trying to come up with a way to excuse it. So count me in with those who say unethical.

As others already mentioned it's not being frugal, it's being cheap. The two are not interchangeable. 

Editing to say if you were given a certain number of sugar or condiment packets there's nothing wrong with keeping the ones you don't use. If you have sugar packets on the table (as in out of their little holder) and you know they'll be thrown away, again there's nothing wrong with taking them. Specifically taking sugar or condiment packets because you're too cheap to buy them? Not ethical. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[SKL]

7 hours ago, marbel said:

This is what it comes to for me as well.  The woman is taking sugar from one place so she can avoid buying it to use at home.  It's cheap and tacky. 

There are other ethics involved here though.  For example:

• The making [serious ethics here if you research it], packaging, and transportation of a box/bag of sugar when a buyer really only needs a few teaspoons a year.
• Taking financial resources that could have been used for helping others.
• Making a person feel badly about a choice that is just one hair over the line from neutral - when none of us is innocent of much worse things.
• Feeling superior, see above.
• Probably unintentionally shaming people who did the same things for the "right" reasons, of which there arguably are some.

Here's another scenario.  Suppose you have a friend who cannot use sugar so you want to have some non-sugar sweetener for her once-in-a-blue-moon visit.  Do you have to buy a quantity of sweetener that nobody else will ever use, or is it OK to take a couple packets the next time you are at Bob Evans?

Or suppose your kid can't eat sugar and you are going to be traveling where non-sugar sweeteners are unlikely to be offered.  Is it still unethical for you to pocket a few to use on the trip?

[marbel]

Just another thought that came to me and then I have to head out. This is a very interesting discussion. And it is a complex issue (SKL, I see your post above.. good questions.)

Anyway, this is what came to mind: entitlement attitude.  "I bought coffee here today so I am entitled to take sugars."    

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by marbel

[SKL]

4 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

If I'm serving coffee to a guest, it's coffee I bought and made myself, which didn't include the price of the sugar from the coffee shop.

The owner of the cafe knows that on average, people use so much sugar, and so they average that over the cost of the coffee they sell.  Some may use none, or some may use four.  But if some people are taking it without using it in that coffee, that too will be averaged in.  That affects the price overall for everyone, just like shoplifting does.  The fact that shoplifting is factored into the price of merchandise doesn't mean it is ok to take items from the store because they are already paid for, though people sometimes argue that.  

A packet of sugar in the USA costs a penny or less.  (Presumably this is similar for the rest of the developed world.)  Buying an extra hundred packs in case of unintended use costs $1.  Really, if that is going to break the bank, you should probably not be in business.

My view on people taking what I wasn't intending to give them is that they probably needed it more than I did, and I hope their having it blesses them more than it hurts them.

[SKL]

4 hours ago, happi duck said:

Fwiw: Chick fil a here has signs asking that unused condiments be put back and Culvers has signs asking to use less napkins.  I can't think of which place but I know I've been somewhere where nothing is out, you ask for everything at the counter.  This leads me to believe that these little things add up.

The cost depends on the condiment.

That said, the reasons involved could be related to environment / waste rather than economy.

Also there are some places with a larger concentration of people who take stuff to use elsewhere, and in that case, yes this may hit your bottom line.  On the other hand is it ethical to be stingy about a few dollars when say homeless people could actually benefit a lot from having that stuff?  It depends on the individual business's economic situation IMO.

I will say that I don't find it ethical to imply that people who take (legally) because they can't afford to buy are inferior to those who don't feel the need to do that.

(For the record, I don't take sugar packets; I get annoyed when they are given to me unasked, especially when I end up with half a bag of condiments and then I have to figure out what to do with them ... because tossing them doesn't feel right either.  So I have a drawer where I keep stuff like that - and now I will probably be judged as being cheap and tacky, LOL.)

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Skippy said:

I understand, and I could not argue because I am clueless on what is considered proper many times, being a function over form type. But if I had in my possession straws, jellies, sauces, or sugar packets (not "stolen" but because I was given more than I could use) I would not think twice about giving them to a guest to use even if they had a Chick-fil-a logo on it. : )

And this is where I disagree with Miss Manners.  I think it depends on who your guest is.  I often say "we're not hosting Queen Elizabeth."  Miss Manners says even my kids shouldn't see the milk carton on the table at breakfast.  Well goody two shoes if you are that fancy, LOL.

I would put out a sugar bowl because we have one that my kids and housemates use anyway.  However I would not be offended or judgmental if I was visiting and someone brought out a holder with sugar packets.  It is kind of them to be prepared for guests who don't eat exactly as they do.  Besides, I don't think it's a good character trait to notice tackiness in others, even while wanting to avoid an excess of it in myself.

[MysteryJen]

20 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

Anyway, this is what came to mind: entitlement attitude.  "I bought coffee here today so I am entitled to take sugars."    

 

 

Well yes, you are. You are entitled to a couple of sugars with the purchase of a coffee. I'm not sure what it matters when you use them.

[SKL]

I'm reminded of the law in the Old Testament of the Bible.  When taking in your harvest, you were required to leave stuff for the less fortunate (and also travelers) to come and get it later, for free, regardless of what those later comers were going to use it for.  This was the LAW.  Maybe it still should be.

Edited November 20, 2018 by SKL

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one who is thinking that it must be nice to have such a carefree life that you have the time to pay attention to whether or not a person is taking extra packets of sugar at Dunkin Donuts, and the energy to actually bother to judge them for it?

This is an interesting thread. I had no idea that anyone would care about someone taking a few sugar packets. Live and learn, I guess! 🙂

[SKL]

This reminds me of the time I took my elderly grandma out, and she wanted to try an all-you-can-eat buffet.  She had been young during the depression.  When she had eaten all she could, she had a bun on her tray, which she wrapped in a napkin and put in her pocket.  She was stopped at the exit and ordered to give up the bun that she "stole."  It was pretty horrifying for both of us.

My grandma was probably tacky.  She believed in saving the wrapping paper so it could be re-used.  She would probably have a couple sugar packets in her pocket if she ever splurged on a coffee away from home.  Her logic was that it's a sin to throw useable things in the garbage.  It's hard to know that a perfectly good bun you put on your tray is going to go in the garbage because you couldn't eat it right away.  But on the other hand, my grandma was incredibly gracious toward others.  The world could spare her a bun and a sugar pack for what she offered to us.

I do understand the concern that some people will take enough food for 3 days and then pack most of it.  But there has to be a reasonable point where you don't shame people for being a bit practical.  If you can't afford to be a little bit liberal about these things, maybe the restaurant business isn't for you.

Edited November 20, 2018 by SKL

[SKL]

7 minutes ago, StellaM said:

If the person actually didn't have money for a package of sugar, that would be another thing, but they did, because they bought the coffee.

So they have two wants, and they have to decide which want to prioritise - buy a coffee, but have no pennies left to buy sugar for hospitality purposes, or by sugar for hospitality and skip this week's coffee. 

So no, they don't need it. Taking what you don't need is kind of greedy, and really tacky.

You talk about it as if they sell penny packs of sugar at coffee shops (or anywhere else).  If that was how sugar packs were dispensed in the US, then I dare say the person referenced in the OP would probably have gladly bought a few packs for her friend.  But it probably saves the vendors money to not have to keep an inventory of penny items, hence bulk sales and condiment bins which allow you to take what you want.

Edited November 20, 2018 by SKL