What are we dealing with with my sil?

[lynn]

please don't quite.   The biggest issue right now is when we talk to her she asks about our cat and never our children.  My dh will tell her ds graduated for high school she did not acknowledge and changed the subject.    Wth.  She lives a very isolated life with 2 cats aka "the boys".  She won't work for anyone younger than her, she's 50.  she has a college degree paid for by her dad she never used.  She use to travel with her husband who works for a race team but stopped that years ago.  So I know depression for sure but why not at least ask about or acknowledge our children.   Vent over.

[scholastica]

If she never had children, maybe your children remind her of a sadness. She is probably depressed. Just try to love her as best you can. She's not intentionally mistreating you, she's probably in pain.

[Annie G]

Maybe not helpful, but my sister has no grandchildren and over the years she has become bitter about it and if my other sister or I mention our grands, sis changes the subject.  It’s bizarre. I’ll get a text and she’ll ask what I’m looking at and I’ll say a pic of a pie that granddaughter made and she changes the subject so obviously that it’s comical. Except that it’s not,  because she is hurting. 

‘Also sis is depressed. So it might be a lot like your sister’s situation. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Annie G

[AK_Mom4]

I work with a lady (we share an office) who doesn’t have kids.   She doesn’t ask how my kids are doing - it never occurs to her.  She has cats of her own and fostering injured cats is one of her big activities outside of work. I make small talk by asking about her current foster cats, but I don’t really share her enthusiasm for stories about how Fuzzies leg wound is healing or Blacky is getting along better with the other cats.

So it’s possible she is depressed or whatever.  Or another option is that she just really isn’t interested in kids.  She has her own life and activities centered around her home and her interests.   Sometimes it is hard for those of us with children to appreciate that not everyone finds our kids as fascinating as we do, since we are in the trenches every day.  

[regentrude]

Some people are simply not interested in other peoples' kids. Some may inquire anyway since they know parents will feel hurt if they don't - but she may simply not care terribly much.  And it may not occur to her that you are annoyed about that.

Edited October 24, 2018 by regentrude

[gardenmom5]

does she have children of her own?   she may be feeling her mortality, and that she is realized she has no children who will remain when she is gone.   your children remind her of that.

my grandmother would never talk about my children, and if I brought them up, she also would change back to her favorite topic.  my sister and her daughters.  she was a twisted old bat.   she was a deeply jealous, and unhappy, woman.

maybe depression, maybe dissatisfied with her life, maybe very self-absorbed - but if she's married, it's really not on you to do something about it.

[Bluegoat]

In my family we might say she is a bit of a nutter.  

[katilac]

She has cats, you have cats. It's not that unusual for people to discuss what they have in common. It would certainly be polite of her to inquire about the kids every now and then, but I agree with regentrude that she simply may not be very interested. She could also just be very socially awkward. So it may not be depression, and it may not be intentional rudeness either.

Lots of people are weird different. Lots of people are more interested in pets than people. I know how easy it is to be offended on behalf of your kids, but I'd try to let it go, particularly if it's mostly a phone relationship. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, lynn said:

she has a college degree paid for by her dad she never used. 

Many women are in the same situation. Including boardies. Actually, it is often emphasized on this board how valuable the college education was, even if the person does not intend to use it for employment. This alone would not raise a red flag for me. Tons of women stop working outside the home completely once they get married.

[lynn]

Thanks for the responses.    My sister has not been able to have kids and she is all about her nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews.  She loves them and acknowledges every birthday and tries to send a little something to all every Christmas and does her best to make recitals, games birthday parties, graduations, showers. She even went out of her way to give navy boy a nice going away gathering when we visited my mom and dad.    So absolutely no response from sil puzzles me but I now have some other things to consider when it comes to her.   

[GoodGrief]

23 minutes ago, lynn said:

Sorry, quoted without thinking

 Sometimes it's hard to be more than superficially interested in people you have never met or don't see frequently, and especially so for certain personality types. I'm guessing that is the primary cause for the behavior you are seeing, and it really is okay.

Edited October 24, 2018 by GoodGrief

[Miss Tick]

20 minutes ago, lynn said:

Thanks for the responses.    My sister has not been able to have kids and she is all about her nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews.  She loves them and acknowledges every birthday and tries to send a little something to all every Christmas and does her best to make recitals, games birthday parties, graduations, showers. She even went out of her way to give navy boy a nice going away gathering when we visited my mom and dad.    So absolutely no response from sil puzzles me but I now have some other things to consider when it comes to her.   

Your sister sounds fabulous! and sets a high bar that not even all parents can meet! ?

Your sil sounds different. She sounds depressed, perhaps jealous that you have kids, perhaps even jealous of your sister. Just meet her where she is at and try to set your expectations there. Or else distance yourselves. Whichever works better for you.

[SKL]

I have had childless friends who want absolutely nothing to do with my kids.  Like they don't even want to see me at all if I have kids in tow.  Ever.  And no, my kids have never done anything to them.

I think it sounds like mental illness of some sort.  I feel sorry for your relative, but if that is the lifestyle that works for her, so be it.

[TechWife]

I have kids and I hardly ever ask people about their kids. Most people don’t want to listen if I talk about my kid, either. This is true for both family members and friends. When I talk to adults, I want to talk about adult topics. 

Some of this is habit, because people don’t like hearing about kids that don’t develop in a typical manner unless it’s to provide an avenue to judge the parents, so I learned to keep my mouth shut when my son reached the middle school years.  I don’t find child rearing all that fascinating, though. I like to celebrate milestones, but everyday stuff, not so much. I’d rather talk about hobbies, politics, what I’m reading, where I’ve been recently and where I might be planning to go, among other things. 

[regentrude]

26 minutes ago, SKL said:

I have had childless friends who want absolutely nothing to do with my kids.  Like they don't even want to see me at all if I have kids in tow.  Ever.  And no, my kids have never done anything to them.

I think it sounds like mental illness of some sort. 

Not wanting to hang out with kids sounds like mental illness? Good grief.

[Guest]

I also vote for indifference or envy. Before I had kids, I don’t think I ever asked people about their kids. Or if they told me something about their kids, I didn’t dig any deeper because I wasn’t interested in kids and didn’t think about it. So, suppose sister said, “oh, this weekend was so great! David won game ball at his baseball game for the most amazing Manny Muchado throw to first!” I would have probably said, “Oh, that sounds fun...are you putting in a garden this year?” Nothing against her kid, but all things she said were meaningless to me at the time and I couldn’t relate. So I probably would have cast around for a subject we had in common. 

[TechWife]

I don’t think not being interested in other people’s children is evidence of depression or mental illness. Don’t read too much into it, it’s likely her interest in other things and lack of interest in your children has nothing at all to do with you or your children. That doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong, weird or that she’s ill. She’s not your sister, so don’t expect her to act in the same way. People are individuals who have different interests, cares & concerns. Try to develop your relationship around other interests. If you find you don’t have any interests you can discuss that don’t involve your children, consider expanding your horizons a bit. If you don’t care to do that, don’t worry about it. Each of us has our own priorities and our own preferences as to how to spend our time. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by TechWife

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Not wanting to hang out with kids sounds like mental illness? Good grief.

Avoiding them and acting like they don't exist?  That is not normal in my opinion.  It's one thing to not love playing with kids.  This is way beyond that IMO.

That said, you cut my 2nd para which was intended to refer to the SIL in the OP, not my childless friends.  (Though my friends had their own issues beyond what I mentioned here - as does the SIL have other issues implied in the OP.)

Edited October 24, 2018 by SKL

[TechWife]

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

Avoiding them and acting like they don't exist?  That is not normal in my opinion.  It's one thing to not love playing with kids.  This is way beyond that IMO.

Not engaging in a conversation you don’t want to participate in isn’t evidence of a mental illness. It’s actually evidence of good boundaries to be able to avoid getting trapped in a conversation you don’t want to participate in. Basically, her sil is telling her to “pass the bean dip,” something we advise each other to do on this board on a regular basis. 

Absent any other information, I think phrases like “ don’t make a mountain out of a molehill” and “don’t borrow trouble “ are applicable to situations like this. 

ETA: OP only referenced phone calls, you’re extrapolating an awful lot by says no she is “avoiding them and acting like they don’t exist.”

Edited October 24, 2018 by TechWife

[SKL]

7 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Not engaging in a conversation you don’t want to participate in isn’t evidence of a mental illness. It’s actually evidence of good boundaries to be able to avoid getting trapped in a conversation you don’t want to participate in. Basically, her sil is telling her to “pass the bean dip,” something we advise each other to do on this board on a regular basis. 

Absent any other information, I think phrases like “ don’t make a mountain out of a molehill” and “don’t borrow trouble “ are applicable to situations like this. 

I agree with your second paragraph. 

I still think basic human behavior requires some indication of interest in the person you are talking to and the things that are obviously most important to them.  Not saying it needs to go deep or be in every conversation.  But when the person apparently intentionally changes the subject every time the OP and her DH mention their kids over a long period of time, it is not normal.  If it was their boat or swimming pool they kept talking about, I could see it.  Their kids, no.

Now maybe I've missed the boat and pets are now on equal footing with children.  But I don't think so.

Edited October 24, 2018 by SKL

[Arcadia]

If a person (relative, close friend) talks about every other kid but not mine, I would treat it as a slight. If the person just doesn’t talk about any kid, it’s just not a topic of interest/conversation to them.

As for graduating from high school, I think it depends on family culture. My husband’s cousins all graduated from college and my in-laws just treat graduating high school and going to college as a given. I would only expect an acknowledgement when my kids graduate from college. My in-laws didn’t acknowledge high school graduation or college acceptance for their favorite grandchildren either.

My side of the family celebrates the first full time job any relative gets. We don’t have high school graduation announcement/party or college graduation announcement/party. Acknowledging high school graduation is just not on their radar. 

[TechWife]

Just now, SKL said:

I agree with your second paragraph.  I still think basic human behavior requires some indication of interest in the person your are talking to and the things that are obviously most important to them.  Not saying it needs to go deep or be in every conversation.  But when the person apparently intentionally changes the subject every time the OP and her DH mention their kids over a long period of time, it is not normal.  If it was their boat or swimming pool they kept talking about, I could see it.  Their kids, no.

Now maybe I've missed the boat and pets are now on equal footing with children.  But I don't think so.

It’s pretty normal when they don’t want to talk about kids. Kids aren’t the center of the universe or a primary interest of the other person in the conversation, so work to find common ground. It has nothing to do with pets not being on equal footing and everything to do with valuing people as individuals and not expecting them to change to please one person or situation, nor expecting them to fake interest in something they truly aren’t interested in. 

[HS Mom in NC]

1 hour ago, lynn said:

T

Oops.  You asked for no quoting. 

It could be subcultural differences, personality, mental illness, resentment, disinterest, or other things we haven't yet considered. Any kind of mental health diagnosis would be required by a licensed professional.  Family cultures can be very different.  When it comes to comparing her to your sister's interactions with your kids, until this summer I lived next to all siblings and my husband's family.  None of us invite our adult siblings to our kids' recitals, games, and we don't do adult siblings or aunt/uncle birthdays.  That's for immediate family and grandparents in our family cultures.  Maybe your sister has decided she doesn't want to participate in that kind of subcultural thing because it doesn't resonate with her like in our families.

 I agree that parents often forget that other people aren't necessarily interested in their kids.  And yes, it's very common to stick to conversation points of common interest like the cats.  Also, pet owners often forget that other people aren't necessarily interested in their pets, and not everyone looks at family pets as "fur babies." So you may think it's weird that she just talks about her cats like you're supposed to be interested and she may think it's weird that you expect her to ask you about your kids or that you expect her to chit chat about them when she brings them up.  If someone started talking to me about a pet like it was a child, I would let them say whatever it is they want to say and then change the subject. I would say, "That's great." when someone told me about their kid graduating, and I do ask people about their kids, but I'd say that a significant number of people, including extended relatives,  don't automatically ask me about my kids. That's typically a grandparent or close friend kind of question, not necessarily a distant relative kind of question.

I know lots of women who got degrees they didn't use.  I remember being in my 1991 senior year high school class being told by education "experts" to get a degree in something you love because, "It doesn't matter what you get a degree in, you just need a degree." Some of the students there believed that and they have degrees in psychology and are in pharmaceutical sales or have anthropology degrees and are administrative assistants or homeschool moms. It's very common for Gen Xers to have a degree that they never used. And there are those Baby Boomers who say things like, "I went to college for my MRS." I've heard that quite a few times.  

Edited October 24, 2018 by Homeschool Mom in AZ
cutting the quote

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, lynn said:

 So I know depression for sure

 

What makes you so sure she is depressed? Nothing in your post indicates that to me. She may be perfectly happy living a quiet life as a homebody with her husband and her cats. Maybe she doesn’t like kids, or because she has none of her own and perhaps never wanted any, she’s not interested in other people’s kids, either. Her cats are her “children” and she’s happy to talk about them, so maybe she asks you about your cats because she feels like it’s the only thing the two of you have in common, and she’s trying to be pleasant and make conversation.

[HomeAgain]

I have a relative like this.  In her case, it is......I don't know.  I'm inclined to think it's an intense dislike of a child she doesn't want to know, and that I have to accept that.  All who say that it's that she may not like children, etc...it's not random children.  It's blood relatives that she wants nothing to do with.  She doesn't want to know these people, and I'm not sure that's fine and dandy. 
However, I drew my line and said something, and refuse to push a relationship anymore, but it also means that person does not get a relationship with me.

[Catwoman]

35 minutes ago, SKL said:

I agree with your second paragraph. 

I still think basic human behavior requires some indication of interest in the person you are talking to and the things that are obviously most important to them.  Not saying it needs to go deep or be in every conversation.  But when the person apparently intentionally changes the subject every time the OP and her DH mention their kids over a long period of time, it is not normal.  If it was their boat or swimming pool they kept talking about, I could see it.  Their kids, no.

Now maybe I've missed the boat and pets are now on equal footing with children.  But I don't think so.

 

But the SIL’s cats are probably more important and interesting to her than Lynn’s children. She probably loves those cats and assumes that Lynn loves her cats, too — and because she’s not close to Lynn or her children, she figures cats are an easy topic of conversation. 

I’m not saying the SIL is right to avoid talking about Lynn’s children, and I think basic good manners would dictate at least a quick, “How’s the family doing?” but I certainly wouldn’t assume a person was mentally ill because she has no interest in other people’s children. Many perfectly normal people simply don’t like kids, don’t want kids, and aren’t interested in talking about kids. 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Catwoman

[SKL]

The OP indicated sil changed the subject rather than respond to "our son just graduated" etc.

I'm not saying she needs to initiate conversations about kids she's not all that into.  But to refuse to allow the conversation to go there when her sibling brings it up?

The normal reaction to "our son just graduated" would be "oh that's nice, what are his future plans?" or "wow, I can't believe how grown up he's become" or "congratulations to him, are you having a party?"  Not "say, did you know my town is building a rec center?" 

Even if you don't have any actual interest in the kid, you respect that this is important to your sibling who is a parent.

[Liz CA]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

The OP indicated sil changed the subject rather than respond to "our son just graduated" etc.

I'm not saying she needs to initiate conversations about kids she's not all that into.  But to refuse to allow the conversation to go there when her sibling brings it up?

The normal reaction to "our son just graduated" would be "oh that's nice, what are his future plans?" or "wow, I can't believe how grown up he's become" or "congratulations to him, are you having a party?"  Not "say, did you know my town is building a rec center?" 

Even if you don't have any actual interest in the kid, you respect that this is important to your sibling who is a parent.

 

Well for someone who is socially more adept this would be true. I know someone who will do similar things because she is not comfortable talking about anything she is not very familiar with. Perhaps the person may wondering what she is supposed to say now, what would be considered intrusive? Seems odd to the rest of us but since I know someone like it and know they are not mentally ill, I guess it could be more of a "oooh don't know what to say now but I can chat about cats" kind of response. 

The person I know lives in her world of curtains and paintings and who had a baby last. Anything else is met with a polite but obviously fake smile and a quick change of subject.

[Pen]

Have you asked her about it?

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Well for someone who is socially more adept this would be true. I know someone who will do similar things because she is not comfortable talking about anything she is not very familiar with. Perhaps the person may wondering what she is supposed to say now, what would be considered intrusive? Seems odd to the rest of us but since I know someone like it and know they are not mentally ill, I guess it could be more of a "oooh don't know what to say now but I can chat about cats" kind of response. 

The person I know lives in her world of curtains and paintings and who had a baby last. Anything else is met with a polite but obviously fake smile and a quick change of subject.

This is how it would have been for me before I had kids. I’m still not super-great at interpersonal communications; I’ve learned a lot of social skills over time but it was by directly training myself. I am 100% positive that I practically never had conversations with my sister about her kids until after I had kids myself. It was just not something I knew about or could converse about or had any interest in at the time. For several years in my twenties, I had more of a friendship with my oldest sister than I did with the sister closest in age, because the oldest and I were childless and interested in the same kind of music and activities. At the time I had little in common with the sister who had kids. 

[katilac]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

Now maybe I've missed the boat and pets are now on equal footing with children.  But I don't think so.

 

If you don't know that there are many, many people who put pets on an equal footing with children, then yes, you've missed the boat, lol. This can mean having an equal or greater interest in spending time with pets and talking about them as opposed to spending time with children and talking about them. It can mean considering pets as true members of the family, just as important as the humans. People have posted on this board about adopting pets being the same as adopting children, in the sense that the pet is now a permanent member of the family regardless of how they fit in or the problems they may cause. You can disagree with any of these things, but certainly they are fairly common thoughts. 

1 hour ago, SKL said:

The OP indicated sil changed the subject rather than respond to "our son just graduated" etc.

 

I'd be curious as to how this played out. The OP said she didn't acknowledge it and changed the subject. Did she not say a word in response? If she said 'congrats' or 'yeah mom told me' and then 'so anyway, Fluffy has a new trick!' then my thought would be a lack of interest and somewhat of manners, but I wouldn't assume any hostile intent or anything. If she truly has no response at all, instead saying 'Fluffy has a new trick!' in direct response, my thoughts would go to an extreme lack of social skills. If she's 50, something that would get a diagnosis or special help today may not have even blipped on the radar, particularly for quiet girls who did well in school. It sounds like the main active thing she ever did was led by someone else (her dh), so that fits also. 

Some people are mean or jealous or intentionally rude, sure, but nothing that's been said here screams that to me. I mean, don't we all have those relatives? Like you could tell my aunt that your kid just won a statewide race, and she would respond, oh, I haven't run in years, my sciatica you know, my doctor said blah blah blah . . . 

And you just have to laugh and realize that Aunt Evvi isn't ever going to change. Maybe she's self-centered, maybe she's socially impaired, but what are you going to do? Aunt Evvi's conversation is mainly restricted to her sciatica and potty training the dogs, and sometimes all you can do is listen politely for a few minutes and then make a run for it. 

[Ausmumof3]

9 hours ago, lynn said:

Thanks for the responses.    My sister has not been able to have kids and she is all about her nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews.  She loves them and acknowledges every birthday and tries to send a little something to all every Christmas and does her best to make recitals, games birthday parties, graduations, showers. She even went out of her way to give navy boy a nice going away gathering when we visited my mom and dad.    So absolutely no response from sil puzzles me but I now have some other things to consider when it comes to her.   

Different people handle not having kids in different ways.  I think by intentionally changing the subject when you raise it she’s letting you know she can’t handle talking about it.  So you can choose to connect over what she wants to talk about - cats - or you can forgo a relationship.  

Also some people just really aren’t kid people and that’s fine too.

I must admit I am the kind of person who is always interested in people’s animals.  So I would acknowledge your kids achievements but I’d probably ask about the cat too!  

[regentrude]

7 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I have a relative like this.  In her case, it is......I don't know.  I'm inclined to think it's an intense dislike of a child she doesn't want to know, and that I have to accept that.  All who say that it's that she may not like children, etc...it's not random children.  It's blood relatives that she wants nothing to do with.  She doesn't want to know these people, and I'm not sure that's fine and dandy. 

Why should people like their blood relatives? They didn't choose them.  Just because somebody is related does not mean she has to like them. 

[GoodGrief]

13 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

That's simple politeness. I question someone's manners if they can not make a polite murmuring about other people's interests. 

I personally am good at making small talk with people about their interests. But it's not that easy or natural for some people.

[Pen]

51 minutes ago, katilac said:

creams that to me. I mean, don't we all have those relatives? Like you could tell my aunt that your kid just won a statewide race, and she would respond, oh, I haven't run in years, my sciatica you know, my doctor said blah blah blah . . . 

  ?Omg. I know a lot of people who do that!

[Liz CA]

40 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

All this reminds me of my mil, screeching outside the hospital room, demanding to know what I'd had, so she could leave for MT to see her REAL grandchildren! Yes, her words. Some people are just unpleasant people. 

I was brought up to believe that when someone told me about their new boat (a subject I have little interest in), I was to respond, "Oh, how fun! Do you have much time to get out on the lake? What's the name?" If someone waxes rhapsodic about their cat (I don't like cats--they make me sneeze), I try to respond with, "Did you get him at the shelter?" When someone tells me about their new snowmobile (intensely boring subject), the response is, "Where do you like to ride? I'll bet it's COLD!" And if someone tells me about their kid in welding school (I know nothing about welding schools), I might comment, "Oh, down at the Vo-Tech?" That's simple politeness. I question someone's manners if they can not make a polite murmuring about other people's interests. 

 

Yes, I think it's either about social skills or manners rather than mental issues.

[Shoeless]

Has SIL ever been easy to talk with? Has she always been this way?  If it's a new thing, then I'd be asking her husband if she's seen a doctor lately.  If she's always been this way, then you could be dealing with anything from general rudeness to garden variety social awkwardness to self-absorption to depression to anxiety to Aspergers to a personality disorder to...

In other words, who knows?  There are a lot of reasons why people behave in unexpected ways. 

She sounds a lot like my mother.  My mother will ask "So what's new?" and I say "DS did XYZ, which was exciting for everyone".  My mother will ignore that information about DS and start talking about how her dog is superior to my son, (her only grandchild).  She's the sort of person that you could say "DS just won the Nobel Prize for Chemistry" and she'd respond with "My dog deserves a Nobel prize because she's so cute".

It almost doesn't matter what the reason is behind the disagreeable behavior of your SIL.  What matters is how you want to respond to it.  It's ok to pull back from this relationship if it wears you down or makes you angry.  Adjust your expectations of her, and see if you still have room for her in your life after that.   

Edited October 25, 2018 by MissLemon

[maize]

10 hours ago, lynn said:

Thanks for the responses.    My sister has not been able to have kids and she is all about her nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews.  She loves them and acknowledges every birthday and tries to send a little something to all every Christmas and does her best to make recitals, games birthday parties, graduations, showers. She even went out of her way to give navy boy a nice going away gathering when we visited my mom and dad.    So absolutely no response from sil puzzles me but I now have some other things to consider when it comes to her.   

I have nieces and nephews. I love them as much as I can love people who aren't a huge part of my life.

I don't send them cards or gifts and when I talk to their parents I don't go out of my way to ask about the kids. I mean, sometimes we talk about kids but mostly we talk about other stuff. If we talk at all which in some cases isn't often. I love them, we are just mostly living our own lives.

Maybe I'm weird; or maybe I'm just not a gushy or card sending or present giving person. People are different.

My childless sisters don't ask about my kids or send them gifts; it never occurred to me to think they should.

[HomeAgain]

8 hours ago, regentrude said:

Why should people like their blood relatives? They didn't choose them.  Just because somebody is related does not mean she has to like them. 

I never said a person had to LIKE them.  I said I don't know if I think it's okay to not to even want to know them.  I said my person seems to have an intense dislike of someone she doesn't even know.  I'm not sure how you conflated the two.

[Pen]

Have you directly told your sil that you want her to act more interested in (or at least to express something in response to things you say about) your children?  

I know you want us to psychoanalyze from afar, but to me it sounds like bad communication is going on between the two of you. In both directions. 

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

 Speaking of both directions, how often to your kids reach out to her, do they send her birthday cards or ever call her and just chat? Relationships are two way things, perhaps she feels no warm fuzzies toward your kids because they have never shown warm fuzzies towards her.

 

Good point. 

[Garga]

I’m another one who never, ever talked about people’s kids before I had kids of my own. Frankly, due to being bullied as a child by other children, I couldn’t tolerate children much. I plain didn’t like them. After I had kids, I completely changed, but before then, when people brought up kids I had no idea how to respond because I honestly couldn’t think of anything to say in regards to children.  I may have given an, “Oh..mmhmmm...” response to something someone said about their kids, and then I’d have wanted the conversation to move on.  

I honestly had nothing to say in response to something about children as I knew *nothing* about children.  I didn’t find anything cute that they did or said, so if I heard a story about something cute a kid said, I’d have been bored by the story. For accomplishments, I’d have thought to myself, “Everyone graduates from high school, so why are you making a big deal out of it?“

It reminds me of when people bought houses.  I remember co-workers buying houses and going on and on about it and it was the Most Boring Thing Ever.  And then I bought a house.  And suddenly, buying houses was fascinating and the next time someone I knew bought a house, I was able to talk with them about it and celebrate with them.

I know a number of people who don’t have children who flat out don’t like them and will tell you so.  It’s not all that rare.  We can speculate all day long about your aunt’s motives, but from my point of view, as someone who didn’t like them and was always unsure of what to say when people talked about theirs, I’d assume she doesn’t like children.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Garga

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Have you directly told your sil that you want her to act more interested in (or at least to express something in response to things you say about) your children?  

I know you want us to psychoanalyze from afar, but to me it sounds like bad communication is going on between the two of you. In both directions. 

The OP could do this, but personally, I don’t recommend it. In two cases, relatives did this to me. One was my sister and one was my SIL and both instances were after my baby died. In both cases, it was extremely unworkable to me that these people were telling me what sort of aunt they needed me to be. I was grieving. I did not have the brain space to ask about who was performing in a play or what activities the kids were getting up to. I was trying to remember to shower and eat daily. 

Even if grief is not the reason the OP’s sister is weird in avoiding talking about the kids, the principle still applies: you can’t direct people to be the kind of sister/aunt/whatever you want them to be. What I said to my sister was, “Do you really want me to do these things after you brow-beat me into it?” 

If the OP did have a good relationship and wanted to say something like, “I’m curious why it seems you don’t want to talk about my kids. It seems like you usually switch the subject to the cats and I’m just wondering why that happens.” But I don’t get the impression the OP does have a good relationship with her and so it seems better to me to just accept that she is not going to be the aunt of OP’s dreams. 

 

[ashfern]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

I know a number of people who don’t have children who flat out don’t like them and will tell you so.  It’s not all that rare.  We can speculate all day long about your aunt’s motives, but from my point of view, as someone who didn’t like them and was always unsure of what to say when people talked about theirs, I’d assume she doesn’t like children.

 

I have kids but I don't like other people's kids.  I do ask about my friend's kids though. I try to remember which kids do different activities. I just wish I could remember the names of my 4 nephews. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

The OP could do this, but personally, I don’t recommend it. In two cases, relatives did this to me. One was my sister and one was my SIL and both instances were after my baby died. In both cases, it was extremely unworkable to me that these people were telling me what sort of aunt they needed me to be. I was grieving. I did not have the brain space to ask about who was performing in a play or what activities the kids were getting up to. I was trying to remember to shower and eat daily. 

Even if grief is not the reason the OP’s sister is weird in avoiding talking about the kids, the principle still applies: you can’t direct people to be the kind of sister/aunt/whatever you want them to be. What I said to my sister was, “Do you really want me to do these things after you brow-beat me into it?” 

If the OP did have a good relationship and wanted to say something like, “I’m curious why it seems you don’t want to talk about my kids. It seems like you usually switch the subject to the cats and I’m just wondering why that happens.” But I don’t get the impression the OP does have a good relationship with her and so it seems better to me to just accept that she is not going to be the aunt of OP’s dreams. 

 

My “like” means like the point you made not that your baby died. 

Is there anyway that communication can be more open without it seeming like an infringement on personal grief?  Or that might elicit the reason that the sil is responding as she does? That is, even without a good relationship. 

 

Something like “ I feel sad that there must be something going on that keeps you from being able to ____.  I know we aren’t that close, and you probably don’t want to confide in me, but I wish I knew why .”

Edited October 25, 2018 by Pen

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Garga said:

n bored by the story. For accomplishments, I’d have thought to myself, “Everyone graduates from high school, so why are you making a big deal out of it?“

 

I think this is also a much bigger thing for homeschooling parents who have themselves worked really hard to make it happen, or for special needs children ‘s parents where it has been especially hard road ,   not just a parent versus non-parent difference. 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

 What I said to my sister was, “Do you really want me to do these things after you brow-beat me into it?”

Agreed.  Someone doing it genuinely and someone doing it because someone else insisted/asked are completely different things. I think if the OP asks the sister to "play along" with the conversation and sister does, then the OP won't be satisfied with that either.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Pen said:

My “like” means like the point you made not that your baby died. 

Is there anyway that communication can be more open without it seeming like an infringement on personal grief?  Or that might elicit the reason that the sil is responding as she does? That is, even without a good relationship. 

 

Something like “ I feel sad that there must be something going on that keeps you from being able to ____.  I know we aren’t that close, and you probably don’t want to confide in me, but I wish I knew why .”

When the people involved are mature adults with a good deal of self-awareness, yes, I think it is possible to resolve conflicts this way. I have no idea how to manage it, though, when someone isn’t being that. A self-centered person is not going to be able to have a reasonable conversation like the one you wrote. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Agreed.  Someone doing it genuinely and someone doing it because someone else insisted/asked are completely different things. I think if the OP asks the sister to "play along" with the conversation and sister does, then the OP won't be satisfied with that either.

Exactly. Anything I did that was nice or thoughtful would simply come under skepticism; i.e., “Well I guess you finally felt guilty enough to not forget my kid’s birthday and send a card!” Nobody wins if someone does nice things because they were shamed into it. 

[unsinkable]

2 hours ago, ashfern said:

I have kids but I don't like other people's kids.  I do ask about my friend's kids though. I try to remember which kids do different activities. I just wish I could remember the names of my 4 nephews. 

I don't think you're joking about not knowing your nephew's names...

My family is really messed up but it would still break my heart if I heard any of my aunts or uncles didn't remember my name.