Flu shot reactions questions

[Scarlett]

My 18 year old just got his first flu shot on Wednesday. Yesterday he became fatigued, a headache, a little nauseous and by the afternoon he developed a 102.5 fever.  He took Tylenol and it went down but then back up.....this morning it is 102.5. Is this in anyway normal? Would you be concerned?

 

[Selkie]

I know that mild fever can be a side effect, but I would probably check with the doctor for peace of mind. 102.5 is a little higher than I would expect from a flu shot.

The five of us got our shots a few weeks ago and three of us had a day of being tired and that feeling like when you're coming down with something, but then everyone was back to normal by the second day.

[Spryte]

I tend to react a bit more than the rest of my family - the sore arm will last a week, I’ll feel mildly ill for a few days with fatigue and achiness.  

A temp of 102.5 would not seem normal to me, but I’d most likely think I picked up a bug at the doc’s office or the pharmacy, or somewhere else.

Maybe call the doc?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Spryte

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I tend to react a bit more than the rest of my family - the sore arm will last a week, I’ll feel mildly ill for a few days with fatigue and achiness.  

A temp of 102.5 would not seem normal to me, but I’d most likely think I picked up a bug at the doc’s office or the pharmacy, or somewhere else.

Maybe call the doc?

I have a call into the nurse.  He got the shot at his college.  

[Scarlett]

Well the nurse never called me back.  But 8 hours after I last gave him Tylenol his temp is normal.  Hopefully on the upswing now, but his head still hurts.

[G5052]

I got mine this morning and have been exhausted all day after a good night of sleep. I'm going to take Tylenol and go to bed early. 

It's been years and years since I had any kind of reaction, but I can't explain it any other way.

[Jaybee]

We've never had any reactions other than a little arm soreness, though I am the only one who gets one every year. I had mine last week, and didn't notice anything different.

[Scarlett]

Temp is normal this evening after no meds since 7:30 this morning. He seems better.  No one will ever convince me this was something other than a reaction to the flu shot.  His first flu shot.  

[sassenach]

If that was his body's reaction to the flu shot, just imagine what the actual flu would do to him!

[Scarlett]

On October 13, 2018 at 9:42 AM, sassenach said:

If that was his body's reaction to the flu shot, just imagine what the actual flu would do to him!

Yeah, I dont buy it.  I am so upset he had this shot. Today is the 5th day and he still has a raging headache.  He has never had the flu and now from the shot he is this sick.  

[Catwoman]

41 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yeah, I dont buy it.  I am so upset he had this shot. Today is the 5th day and he still has a raging headache.  He has never had the flu and now from the shot he is this sick.  

 

That’s awful, Scarlett! I thought he would be feeling fine by now! 

My ds has always had terrible reactions to vaccinations, so I don’t doubt that your son had a bad reaction to the flu shot. Can you get his doctor to note in his records that your son had a bad reaction to the shot, so he will be exempted from getting them in the future if his college or a job ever tries to require that he get one? Because there is no way I would want him to ever get another flu shot.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

That’s awful, Scarlett! I thought he would be feeling fine by now! 

My ds has always had terrible reactions to vaccinations, so I don’t doubt that your son had a bad reaction to the flu shot. Can you get his doctor to note in his records that your son had a bad reaction to the shot, so he will be exempted from getting them in the future if his college or a job ever tries to require that he get one? Because there is no way I would want him to ever get another flu shot.

Well I didnt want him to get a flu shot ever, but he is legal adult and gets to decide these things.  My friend who works FROM HOME as an Intake transcriptionist for a big hospital is forced to get the flu shot thanks to medicare calling the shots.  Ridiculous.  

[Catwoman]

18 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well I didnt want him to get a flu shot ever, but he is legal adult and gets to decide these things.  My friend who works FROM HOME as an Intake transcriptionist for a big hospital is forced to get the flu shot thanks to medicare calling the shots.  Ridiculous.  

 

I’m sure he thought he would be fine, and was hoping the shot would protect him from getting the flu. It probably never even occurred to him that he would have reacted so badly to it. ?

It’s crazy that a person who works from home should be required to get a flu shot! If she worked with patients at the hospital, that would be different, but she’s nowhere near the hospital. I understand why hospitals have rules, but they should make exceptions for people like your friend!

[klmama]

This should go in his medical record.  Even if they tell him it's a normal reaction, he needs to insist that it be noted. 

[Pawz4me]

11 minutes ago, texasmom33 said:

I’d get him into see a doctor after 5 days with a headache and fever. Being at college, there are a lot of other viruses he’s exposed to that may have nothing to do with this flu shot, and not to be alarming, but could be cause for concern. College, fever, headache for multiple day= time to see a doctor. 

I know you said no one could change your mind, but I think it’s worth a trip to the doctor. If it’s nothing else and the doc agrees it’s likely  an adverse event to the vaccination, he or you can report it to the FDA as well. 

I agree. It sounds to me as if you (Scarlett) have a bias against the flu vaccine. I wouldn't let that blind me to other potential and probably more likely causes.

[Scarlett]

Just to clarify he hasn’t had fever since Friday morning. It was 102 then, but I gave him Tylenol and he slept all day. I was at work and very worried about him . I forced him to get up at 2 or so and take his temp and it was normal by then.  He hasn’t had fever since then. So the fever lasted a bit less than 48 hours. 

 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I agree. It sounds to me as if you (Scarlett) have a bias against the flu vaccine. I wouldn't let that blind me to other potential and probably more likely causes.

Right I was going to take him in Friday if he still had fever. 

[sassenach]

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Yeah, I dont buy it.  I am so upset he had this shot. Today is the 5th day and he still has a raging headache.  He has never had the flu and now from the shot he is this sick.  

Could be. I believe that some people do have bad reactions to vaccines and are even injured by them. I also believe that vaccines prevent illness. Both can be true. 

The year my eldest opted out of getting vaccinated (so same principle but in reverse of your situation), she got H1N1 and had a 104+ fever for 5 days, was down for 2 weeks, and ended up with a raging yeast infection at the back end from her immune system bottoming out. That was the last time she used her adult authority to skip the shot. 

My point being- in either direction us moms can certainly feel validated when these young adults start overruling us! 

Hope he feels better soon. 

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Could be. I believe that some people do have bad reactions to vaccines and are even injured by them. I also believe that vaccines prevent illness. Both can be true. 

The year my eldest opted out of getting vaccinated (so same principle but in reverse of your situation), she got H1N1 and had a 104+ fever for 5 days, was down for 2 weeks, and ended up with a raging yeast infection at the back end from her immune system bottoming out. That was the last time she used her adult authority to skip the shot. 

My point being- in either direction us moms can certainly feel validated when these young adults start overruling us! 

Hope he feels better soon. 

Yes this is true.  And I am not actually anti vac.  In fact this whole thing has reminded me that I think he needs his meningitis booster.....so I am going to TRY to get him to go in for a physical, report this adverse reaction and make sure he gets the meningitis booster if he needs it.  Oh and also sign papers for me to be able to talk to doctors about him.   

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, texasmom33 said:

If he still has a headache though that’s enough to impact him I’d still take him. Five days is a long time for a headache. 

Also- you can report the adverse event on that link regardless of if he goes to the doctor or not. Anyone can report- parent, patient, relative, doctor. 

His headache has mostly subsided this morning.  I do still want him to go in for a pysical though.....see my post above. 

[Selkie]

37 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes this is true.  And I am not actually anti vac.  In fact this whole thing has reminded me that I think he needs his meningitis booster.....so I am going to TRY to get him to go in for a physical, report this adverse reaction and make sure he gets the meningitis booster if he needs it.  Oh and also sign papers for me to be able to talk to doctors about him.   

My kids just got their flu shots and meningitis boosters a few weeks ago. The pharmacist told me that they should either get both shots at the same time, or if they were only getting one shot that day (say, the flu shot), then they should wait four weeks to get the meningitis shot. Otherwise, if there is an interval shorter than four weeks between shots, the immune response won't be as strong and the vaccinations won't be as effective. This applies to all shots, not just flu and meningitis. She said she gets frustrated because doctors often don't explain this to patients. 

 

[Scarlett]

30 minutes ago, Selkie said:

My kids just got their flu shots and meningitis boosters a few weeks ago. The pharmacist told me that they should either get both shots at the same time, or if they were only getting one shot that day (say, the flu shot), then they should wait four weeks to get the meningitis shot. Otherwise, if there is an interval shorter than four weeks between shots, the immune response won't be as strong and the vaccinations won't be as effective. This applies to all shots, not just flu and meningitis. She said she gets frustrated because doctors often don't explain this to patients. 

 

Thank you! He got an appt for next week, so I guess it wouldn't be good to get the meningitis shot then.....

[goldberry]

That's a long time for a headache.  DH has a bad reaction to flu shots so he stopped getting them.  I waver back and forth.  I didn't get them for a long time, but after being down for two weeks and miserable with the flu one year, I started getting them for awhile. DD gets them at college though, because it goes through the college like wildfire.  FAR more likely to get it, at least at her school. It's like living in a virus lab.  

[itsheresomewhere]

I react badly to a flu shot.  My mother made me get one as “doctors never give bad advice”( her words, I still remember them years later). That was my last one. Now years later, it was discovered that I react to a certain preservative in shots.  I rarely get any unless absolutely needed. 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by itsheresomewhere

[Catwoman]

8 hours ago, Selkie said:

My kids just got their flu shots and meningitis boosters a few weeks ago. The pharmacist told me that they should either get both shots at the same time, or if they were only getting one shot that day (say, the flu shot), then they should wait four weeks to get the meningitis shot. Otherwise, if there is an interval shorter than four weeks between shots, the immune response won't be as strong and the vaccinations won't be as effective. This applies to all shots, not just flu and meningitis. She said she gets frustrated because doctors often don't explain this to patients. 

 

Thank you for posting this — I didn’t know that!

[Garga]

I hate the whole shot debate.  ?

I avoided flu shots for 40 years, and then got the flu for two years in a row and was astounded at how sick it made me.  After that, I started getting the flu shot.  One time, I had a reaction where I felt almost as sick as the flu for the day following the shot, but it lifted after about 8 hours, so it wasn't really the flu.  It was a reaction.

I am sorry, Scarlett, that this happened. It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is.  Getting the shot can give you a reaction.  Not getting the shot can give you the flu, which can seriously affect your ability to do school/work/anything and lead to other complications.  I feel anxious whenever it's time for any of us to get any vaccines--flu, meningitis...anything.

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, texasmom33 said:

Not to derail, but just as an outside observation, the flu shot is one of the most complicated immunizations that currently exists. Vaccines for things like measles, mumps, DPT or anything else are much more clear cut science wise. With flu, you have a virus that is constantly circulating around the globe, can jump across species, and is constantly mutating, so it is completely hitting a moving target. Everything about it is complicated. Just mentioning so that people don’t generalize across all vaccines simply based off of flu. It is definitely  NOT a perfect science. I’ll be the first to admit. But don’t use flu vaccine data as a judgement for other vaccines. 

Ok. Sorry. Now I’m officially done with PSA’s on your thread Scarlett. I just can’t help myself.... ?

No, don't apologize, I am THRILLED to hear your knowledgeable input. That is the thing about the flu vaccine.....such a shot in the dark.  

Tonight.....even as sick as Ds has been...he tells me I need to get the flu shot.  No son. Just no.  I don't think I ever had the flu shot nor the flu.  The December I was pregnant with Ds, 19 years ago, I was sick with a bad head cold and missed 2 weeks of school.  Bui felt like I couldn't take any meds....and that probably drug out my sickness.  Still, I don't thnk it was the flu. 

 

Meningitis scares me....the flu not so much.,,

[Liz CA]

I've been peeking into this thread here and there with trepidation. At my work someone had the bright idea to ask everyone to get flu shots. My naturopath is against it. I have had the flu twice in my life if I remember correctly. I do lots of other stuff to increase immunity during this time of year. I hope I can sail under the radar...as texasmom said - it's such a shot in the dark and does not seem worth it. 

[Scarlett]

So a week today since he had the shot. I would stay he is still not 100%.  He has this strange isolated pain near the corner of his eye....and now his bottom eye lid seems to have a sty.....and the headache continues off and on, but of course those two things may be coincidence.  He doesn’t get enough sleep and his schedule is so varied.....some days he has to get up at 7 and some days not until 10:30. So many nights he is up until 2.  I know this is part of his new adulthood.... it I am trying to tell him he needs to have a more consistent schedule sleeping and waking at more or less the same time.  He might listen....lol. 

[rdj2027]

Last Monday was the first time I ever got a fly shot (never had the flu either).  I have been having massive head aches since, I'm nauseous, fatigued and feel like vomiting. I am running a temperature, my arm is still swollen and I can't sleep.  I have never had issues with vaccines before and rarely get sick (my youngest son and hubby had the flu three weeks ago and I did not pick it up from them).  I wonder if this year's shot is somehow different (more potent after last year's didn't seem to be too effective).

[Storygirl]

https://www.today.com/health/why-flu-shot-can-t-give-you-flu-t120873

I thought this article was interesting. It explains the difference between a reaction to the shot and the actual flu.

[Liz CA]

So...where do some of the side effects come from? Like texasmama said, the virus in the injection is dead but what is it stored in? Some people are concerned of the storage substance causing reactions. What else is there to know?

We are being pressured more and more every year about flu shots. I have never had one that I can remember and have only had the flu twice in my life. My doc is against it; she is for strengthening the immune system.

[Kassia]

My dd has an overactive immune system and always has a reaction from the flu shot (but she still gets it).  When she was little it was more severe but we always time it so that she gets the shot when she doesn't have anything important going on the following few days.  DH also has an overactive immune system, but his is not as bad as dd's.  He frequently gets side effects after the shot.  My sons and I are always fine.  Dd and DH usually end up with body aches and fatigue.  

ETA:  My ds did get a mild case of the flu after receiving the flu mist the year there was a shortage of the flu shot (2004?).  

Edited October 19, 2018 by Kassia

[Liz CA]

 

 

 

2 hours ago, texasmom33 said:

 

Personalized Medicine and Public Health don't make for great bedfellows that I have been able to figure as yet. It's too expensive and unless all medical care goes 100% corporate and private pay, where companies are incentivized to do it, and the citizenry can afford it, it's not going to happen. And not to be political, but with more socialized medicine, you see even more of the "greater good" over the individual/customized medicine approach, simply because governments can't afford personalized medicine.  But that's another thread. To have safer vaccines and meds, you'd have to cater to genotype among other things and that capability is in its infancy. But again, cost is the biggest driver. I cannot fathom of it ever happening, because the most susceptible are usually the smallest minority- reactions are rare, relatively speaking. But who cares if you're the one, you know?  I should never say never though. Maybe Elon Musk or some visionary can make it happen. But I doubt in my lifetime. 

I think a simple comparison would be to look at the tact public health officials in the US have taken towards breastfeeding. It's become almost religious in fervor. Is breast feeding great? Yep! For a lot of people. Is it sometimes a bad or poor choice for some women? Yep! It is. But they (public health officials and other vested parties) are so terrified the exceptions will overtake the recommendation they quash it until it becomes an overwhelming hoard almost, telling people (especially women) what they should do, and they'll do it by shaming if need be.  And do- time and time again. (You'll notice this does not happen nearly as often towards men, but again, another tangent.) 

I've never lived in Europe, but I have never gotten the impression at all the European medicine follows the same mob/shout down mentality that America does. There seems to be more room in most European countries for varying outlooks. They're more conservative with everything from medical tests to drugs, to treatments. Maybe it's because the age of the countries- "new" isn't seen as better, whereas here, it's always got to be about experts and the latest trends. 

Anyway, wow that got long. Sorry Liz, but hopefully I gave you something in there. ?

 

The Bolded: I think you nailed it with personalized medicine and public health not being very compatible since they have different goals by definition.

It's been over 30 years I lived in Europe as a child and young adult so not sure how much has changed but they seem to be willing to look more at homeopathic / naturopathic solutions before they come out with the big guns. However, I was young then and didn't care much about health care, the politics and the quality of it.

Thank you! That was a very good explanation. I sort of figured that there was no one answer. It is a conundrum of sorts for me because by and large (for myself) I lean toward less is more and prefer to build up my immune system. I don't have a history of respiratory ailments and issues. At work, there is increasing pressure regarding flu shots. I think we had a similar thread last fall and I was reading how many employers push this on their employees. This year, I have experienced it. I am still on the fence. Part of me says, what the heck, get the flu shot and it's over...but what if it isn't? What if I get crummy symptoms for a week. I'd be spitting mad...and sick. The other part whispers to me: This is your health, you are an adult and you should have a choice. I am not one who heroically stumbles to work when I cannot see straight or breathe without wheezing but I realize that some people come to work when they are contagious and you can be contagious before you are aware you got the flu. Back and forth I go. At the moment I feel rather rebellious and think I won't do it. ☺️

[Scarlett]

Texasmom, that was an amazing explanation.  Thank you.  

I think my son is finally feeling better, but it did take a full week.  And he was really sick for 48 hours of that.  

Liz I will not get the flu shot.  I just won't.   But wow is it being pushed.  I received 4 different automated calls from my doctor---one for each of our family. I am being more cautious than usual about hand washing and avoiding close knit crowds.  And I am trying to eat better, drink lots of fluids...what things are you doing to build your immune system and I wonder does that really work?

[Liz CA]

6 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Texasmom, that was an amazing explanation.  Thank you.  

I think my son is finally feeling better, but it did take a full week.  And he was really sick for 48 hours of that.  

Liz I will not get the flu shot.  I just won't.   But wow is it being pushed.  I received 4 different automated calls from my doctor---one for each of our family. I am being more cautious than usual about hand washing and avoiding close knit crowds.  And I am trying to eat better, drink lots of fluids...what things are you doing to build your immune system and I wonder does that really work?

 

I always go to Immune Stimulator - a product by Nature's Sunshine but I also eat ginger and some garlic in sauteed veggies (really year round). My mother swears by ginger tea, homemade. Take a piece of ginger root, peeled and pour hot water over it with a little bit of honey for flavor. Let steep like tea for a few minutes, then drink.

Hand washing the way it's done in medical settings, and we have Echinacea, Vitamin C and Zinc on hand. I also try to make sure I get decent sleep and exercise.

[Sdel]

The only year I’ve ever gotten the flu was the year DH got it.  We got it before the “season” so the shots weren’t out, and it wasn’t a strain that was covered by the shot.  I don’t get the shot because I don’t usually get the flu......it’s probably the one positive of severe allergies.  All the routine coughing, sneezing, and blowing keeps the buggers out before it can set up shop.

Stefanie  

[TravelingChris]

On 10/18/2018 at 8:31 PM, texasmom33 said:

This is a huge oversimplification, so bear with me. But when you have a side effect, typically in a pharma case you'll call it an adverse event and then the reporting person/agency will assign a rank of how likely it was that the effect is attributable to the drug/vaccine. Those are reportable regardless of whether or not they're actually related to the drug/vaccine. For instance, if I have 20 people in a room, and give them a glass of water and monitor them for 12 hours, odds are high that someone will get a headache, someone will feel light-headed, someone might slip and break a leg. I have to report all of it. The monitor or doc will record the severity of the incident as well, and so basically each adverse event will be graded- typically on a scale of 1-5. (And disclaimer- I only worked in infectious disease and then oncology- I didn't work in vaccine or device trials, so this is very general and may vary a bit.) This is called safety data and is the biggest whoop of all when it comes to trials. This is what can shut your trial down in a heartbeat. 

So as you move through the Trial Phases towards market, you'll accumulate lists of Adverse Events, and Serious Adverse Events, so the clinics where the trials occur will know what to expect and when to pull the plug, etc. The FDA is receiving safety data throughout. During all of this they're making correlations and running further studies to narrow things down. This is why the majority of trials never make it past Phase I. And also why (Pharma Bro reasoning excluded) drugs cost so very much to develop. The R&D cost is huge. A tiny fraction ever make it to market, and vaccines aren't profitable in comparison to other drugs, so they're less appealing to develop. At least that was always my understanding. 

Anyway, to answer your question, the side effects can come from all sorts of things. Immune response is a very likely explanation in a lot of cases. You are asking for an immune response. You just want it to be a controlled response. Other things like co-infection, immune issues, age, and all sorts of factors can play in. There is usually a ldecent ag time from infection to exhibition of symptoms. Most people are getting flu vacs in the fall when everyone has started back to school, are indoors more and all of the things that make you much more likely to develop flu, a cold, strep, or any of the zillion other bugs that rear their little heads each fall/winter. Then as you mention, vaccine ingredients, like egg derivatives for example- a lot of people are reactive to egg. All of it comes together. But when you're dealing with millions of people, finding a root cause is hard. Too many variables. And if you have a vaccine and then start feeling lousy and go to your doctor, unless you are severely ill the odds are not high that they will take a blood sample at all, much less look for other viral or bacterial infections. They'll just report the AE if they bother to report at all. (This is after the trials are over and the drug is on the market though- during the trial everything SHOULD be reported.)  Each vaccine will have all of this info spelled out on the prescribing documentation. This is why I am big on encouraging people to report. The assumption that just because something is on the market, that it is 100% safe is a very faulty assumption. It just means it made it through the trials and FDA approval. And why it's a high bar, it's also a political bar. And sometimes you end up with Black Box warnings, which are a whole other ballgame. If you really want to confuse yourself look at drugs that approved in the US versus drugs that are approved in the EU and ask yourself why that is. The EU is pretty conservative on a lot of Rx drugs- especially when it comes to children, whereas Americans seem to Rx psychotropic drugs to children like candy. But again, another thread. 

The crapshoot of pharma is, after a point,  you can very rarely be 100% on a causation. And people want certainty. But the world is complex, and it's almost impossible to isolate all of the possible variables that can cause a reaction within a national population. That's why they often have to wait until you hit a specific threshold to attribute the cause to one thing or another, and they just don't do that sort of drill down if the safety data is good. Lots of bad things have to happen. Like Fen-Phen for instance.

But you're also looking across populations as a whole when you're dealing with public health, which immunizations in general are, so the good of the group exceeds the good of the individual. There will always be a risk to every single act on this earth that I can think of, but in public health, you look at that maybe 1 in 1,000,000 might have a Severe Adverse Event, and so that is a risk that is acceptable because it lowers the risk for the other 999,999. Is it unfortunate, yes. But its very much a greater good approach. And lets face it- flu is deadly. Very deadly. And oddly the worst flu epidemics usually seem to take out the healthy aged adults, which could collapse a nation if it were severe enough. So it's in any nation's interest to be radically proactive against it, so they do the best they can. 

Personalized Medicine and Public Health don't make for great bedfellows that I have been able to figure as yet. It's too expensive and unless all medical care goes 100% corporate and private pay, where companies are incentivized to do it, and the citizenry can afford it, it's not going to happen. And not to be political, but with more socialized medicine, you see even more of the "greater good" over the individual/customized medicine approach, simply because governments can't afford personalized medicine.  But that's another thread. To have safer vaccines and meds, you'd have to cater to genotype among other things and that capability is in its infancy. But again, cost is the biggest driver. I cannot fathom of it ever happening, because the most susceptible are usually the smallest minority- reactions are rare, relatively speaking. But who cares if you're the one, you know?  I should never say never though. Maybe Elon Musk or some visionary can make it happen. But I doubt in my lifetime. 

It's really complicated and I've probably done a horrible job of oversimplifying this, but it's hard to answer your question because there are so many factors.

If you trust your doctor I would hands down go with what your doctor says. Flu is one area I try never stick my nose in on recommending for or against vaccines, whereas I'm very opinionated on other vaccines. But flu is sooooo different. I'm sure I should get my public health credentials yanked for saying that, but I can't help it. They oversimplify it for the sake of getting the public on board. Not that it's a conspiracy. I'm not saying that. It definitely is for the greater good. And when it comes to this sort of thing you, as an official, really get one chance at a message and you have to tailor it to the lowest common denominator you're appealing to. It's a lot easier to say GET YOUR FLU SHOT! to everyone in America. get the press to go along, and make it seem like they're idiots if they don't than to entertain the why's and what-fors of why maybe everyone shouldn't,  if that makes sense. They leave the finesse of exceptions to individual physicians to determine. But what you are asking is on an individual level, and so I just wrote a very long post to tell you I don't think anyone could honestly give you a straight answer. If they did they'd be oversimplifying worse than I have. There is SO MUCH to know. Too much. And that's why it's a lot easier to just say, "get your flu shot!" 

I think a simple comparison would be to look at the tact public health officials in the US have taken towards breastfeeding. It's become almost religious in fervor. Is breast feeding great? Yep! For a lot of people. Is it sometimes a bad or poor choice for some women? Yep! It is. But they (public health officials and other vested parties) are so terrified the exceptions will overtake the recommendation they quash it until it becomes an overwhelming hoard almost, telling people (especially women) what they should do, and they'll do it by shaming if need be.  And do- time and time again. (You'll notice this does not happen nearly as often towards men, but again, another tangent.) 

I've never lived in Europe, but I have never gotten the impression at all the European medicine follows the same mob/shout down mentality that America does. There seems to be more room in most European countries for varying outlooks. They're more conservative with everything from medical tests to drugs, to treatments. Maybe it's because the age of the countries- "new" isn't seen as better, whereas here, it's always got to be about experts and the latest trends. 

Anyway, wow that got long. Sorry Liz, but hopefully I gave you something in there. ?

I have lived in Europe (Belgium) and no, they are not particularly conservative-  more like thoughtful.  Two examples, if you have a broken leg there, you get put on blood thinners.  Why?  Because broken legs are a big factor in blood clots and just the most common blood clotting cause is in approximately 9% of European population (or Americans with European background) and that doesn't count the more than 30 other blood causes for clotting.  Second example-  I was on a number of medications already (and I look back fondly for that as I am no over 20 now but back then probably 6) and the neurologist I went to for help with my increasing and increasingly long migraines (up to 3 days at a time) decided not to put me on another regular medication but prescribed 400 mg of riboflavin (B2) since he had read about it helping in migraines and it did.  Actually a third example-  my family had a much easier time getting thorough care there (including tests and treatments) then we have had in the US.

Edited October 20, 2018 by TravelingChris

[Wheres Toto]

18 hours ago, Sdel said:

The only year I’ve ever gotten the flu was the year DH got it.  We got it before the “season” so the shots weren’t out, and it wasn’t a strain that was covered by the shot.  I don’t get the shot because I don’t usually get the flu......it’s probably the one positive of severe allergies.  All the routine coughing, sneezing, and blowing keeps the buggers out before it can set up shop.

Stefanie  

That's an interesting thought.  I have pretty bad allergies, especially in the Fall.  I haven't had the flu ever that I remember, and I haven't had the flu shot in at least 20 years.   I never thought the two could be related, and would probably expect the opposite - that lower resistance from the allergies would make it more likely.  Although I am fairly well medicated plus take vitamins since I found keeping my D levels up helps with the allergies.

I worked for a pharma company based in Germany.  We had a product that was approved in Europe but could not get approved in the US due to safety data.  So, it's not always easier here, or more conservative there.

[Selkie]

6 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

That's an interesting thought.  I have pretty bad allergies, especially in the Fall.  I haven't had the flu ever that I remember, and I haven't had the flu shot in at least 20 years.   I never thought the two could be related, and would probably expect the opposite - that lower resistance from the allergies would make it more likely.  Although I am fairly well medicated plus take vitamins since I found keeping my D levels up helps with the allergies.

I worked for a pharma company based in Germany.  We had a product that was approved in Europe but could not get approved in the US due to safety data.  So, it's not always easier here, or more conservative there.

IIrc, there have been studies showing that allergy sufferers have lower rates of cancer. Apparently, the immune system is in a heightened state because of allergens and is better able to fight off other "invaders" as well.

[PinkTulip]

Sidenote: @texasmom33 your thorough response is one of the huge reasons why I love this board - there are so many really brilliant people that offer different perspectives and insights. I have learned so much about so many things by being here! 

[vonfirmath]

On 10/18/2018 at 5:24 PM, texasmom33 said:

They should note in the article however that the FluMist is a live virus and can cause you to develop flu symptoms. I know it's not a shot, but since it's marketed as being equal to the shot, people conflate the two as being the same, simply in a different form.  They're largely marketed as being 100% the same- you simply get to skip the shot. Not so. The vaccine is a killed virus, but the mist is an attenuated virus (live). Just something for people to keep in mind. You cannot catch the flu from the flu vaccine. You can develop the flu from the mist. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm

 

 

Our doctor said the FluMist was no longer being given. Too much risk and too little effectiveness

[May]

I’ve never gotten a flu shot and never have had the flu. I really hate needles and try to avoid them when given the option?  

[vonfirmath]

6 hours ago, texasmom33 said:

They stopped it for a bit, but early this year CDC recommended it be brought it back for this flu season. It’s shipped but don’t know how widely available it is  

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/fda-has-not-approved-manufacturer-release-flumist-influenza-vaccine

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/live-attenuated-influenza-vaccine-laiv-sprayed-nose-help-protect-against-influenza

https://www.flumistquadrivalent.com/

I’ve read articles where peds push against it, but I don’t know how long that will last or how widespread the opposition  it is. Guessing it will depend on how well it does this year. 

 

Our doctor was unaware of it so I'd guess they didn't have it (Or chose not to have it?). At this point my youngest has gotten the shot several years so I doubt we'll go back to the Mist that is a bigger problem for some.