Sad news...reports are coming in that missing Iowa student Mollie Tibbetts has been found dead

[unsinkable]

I don't have a good link bc I heard it on TV.

I hope it is wrong.

[....]

Oh, no...  

[Arcadia]

CNN hasn’t confirmed the body is Mollie’s https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/08/21/us/mollie-tibbetts-missing-iowa-student/index.html

FoxNews says her dad confirmed http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/21/mollie-tibbetts-missing-iowa-student-found-dead-sources-say.html

abc7news says authorities announced they believe they have found her body.  https://abc7news.com/a-timeline-of-mollie-tibbetts-disappearance/3816516/

[Katy]

Local station KCCI is reporting from the unconfirmed scene, near where the "discredited" red shirt was found: https://www.kcci.com/article/report-missing-20-year-old-mollie-tibbetts-found-dead/22786847

[Pink and Green Mom]

Oh no.  I had been following this case very closely but hadn't checked on any new info the past two days.  Very sad.

[Annie G]

While I’m sad to hear the news, I am grateful her family can have some closure.  That poor family. 

[Catwoman]

Oh no. ?

 

[PrincessMommy]

I've only heard unconfirmed reports... so very sad regardless.  That is someone's child, sibling, loved one.  

[SquirrellyMama]

Some of the news stations here are saying it is her, while some are saying it is her, but not confirmed. I think everyone has just accepted that it is her. It is very sad, scary, and hits close to home. I grew up in that county, not far from Brooklyn, IA. I went to school with her boyfriend's dad. I hope it wasn't anyone close to her. 

Kelly

[unsinkable]

9 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

Some of the news stations here are saying it is her, while some are saying it is her, but not confirmed. I think everyone has just accepted that it is her. It is very sad, scary, and hits close to home. I grew up in that county, not far from Brooklyn, IA. I went to school with her boyfriend's dad. I hope it wasn't anyone close to her. 

Kelly

I don't have a big connection to Iowa, but I do to a nearby state. Plus the rage I feel about the whole "controversy" of women running alone

But with Mollie's (most likely) murder and the death of the little boy with epilepsy who died in NM, I'm so sad and angry. 

[SquirrellyMama]

2 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I don't have a big connection to Iowa, but I do to a nearby state. Plus the rage I feel about the whole "controversy" of women running alone

But with Mollie's (most likely) murder and the death of the little boy with epilepsy who died in NM, I'm so sad and angry. 

I really hadn't heard anyone suggest she shouldn't have been running along. I'm surprised I didn't. That is usually the first thing you hear.

I'm really baffled by the CO murders of the pregnant mom and 2 daughters. 

Kelly

[Gobblygook]

So tragic ...

[unsinkable]

57 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I really hadn't heard anyone suggest she shouldn't have been running along. I'm surprised I didn't. That is usually the first thing you hear.

I'm really baffled by the CO murders of the pregnant mom and 2 daughters. 

Kelly

I heard a brief mention that the POS husband said his wife killed their girls and he was just trying to stop her. I can't even type what I really want to say about him.

[Selkie]

Just watched the press conference - so awful. She was chased down and abducted while jogging. The guy who murdered her is a 24-year-old who is in the country illegally.

[Katy]

Yeah, his name is Christian Rivera, he confessed.  Illegal immigrant.

ETA:  Linked video isn't yet updated, but the article is: https://www.kcci.com/article/report-suspect-in-custody-on-immigration-detainer-in-mollie-tibbetts-case/22791470

Edited August 21, 2018 by Katy

[sheryl]

There is NO good reason for killing her.  Self-defense is one thing but he wasn't defending himself.  (The husband/dad killing his family needs to be in another thread).  Back to Mollie - what on earth was his reasoning? 

[SquirrellyMama]

1 minute ago, sheryl said:

There is NO good reason for killing her.  Self-defense is one thing but he wasn't defending himself.  (The husband/dad killing his family needs to be in another thread).  Back to Mollie - what on earth was his reasoning? 

They didn't get into motive. Just that he followed her, harassed her, and killed her.

He says that he blacked out due to anger when she threatened to call the cops. He woke up and figured out that he killed her.

[Selkie]

According to the information given at the press conference, Rivera had seen her jogging in Brooklyn previously. On the night he abducted her, he had been following her around town in his car, then got out and started running alongside her. She got out her phone and said she was going to call the police, at which point he chased her down. Then he claims to have blacked out and woke up in the cornfield where her body was found (about ten miles outside Brooklyn, I believe).

[sheryl]

2 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said:

They didn't get into motive. Just that he followed her, harassed her, and killed her.

He says that he blacked out due to anger when she threatened to call the cops. He woke up and figured out that he killed her.

Wow!  That's scary.  The part about him blacking out is all an attorney will need to get him off.  I feel sorry for people who truly do blackout but too many people are using that as an excuse to not be found guilty.   Really angers me!

[LMD]

I'm so sorry Mollie, RIP. 

Maybe it's appropriate to remind people that approximately 9 women are murdered in the US everyday - 1/3 of those by a partner/former partner.

Blackout due to anger. Surprised I didn't black out reading that...

[unsinkable]

7 minutes ago, LMD said:

I'm so sorry Mollie, RIP. 

Maybe it's appropriate to remind people that approximately 9 women are murdered in the US everyday - 1/3 of those by a partner/former partner.

Blackout due to anger. Surprised I didn't black out reading that...

I think it is more than half are killed by a partner or former partner. 

I hoping this isn't news to women. 

[Catwoman]

Yeah, sure, I totally believe he “blacked out.”

(No, I don’t.)

[SquirrellyMama]

I don't think the black out defense would work here. He admitted to following her, and harassing her. He looped around more than once in his car, then got out and ran behind and along side her. He obviously wasn't up to good. I'm not saying he planned to kill her at that point, but maybe got scared when she threatened to call the police. I hope it doesn't work. How awful for her family if he can get off on that defense.

Kelly

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The black out/amnesia strategy is rarely successful as a defense.  Not remembering that you committed a crime is not a defense to the crime.  Those defense can sometimes play a role in sentencing but I would expect this one to be ineffective.

[goldberry]

I feel kind of bad for the pig-farmer guy.  He was really weird, but I'm sure he was treated horribly being the suspect.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Thatboyofmine said:

There’s also the missing girl in Arizona, Kiera Bergman.  She is so beautiful and full of life in her pics.  I hope her family gets a miracle.  

There are roughly 88,000 people missing in the US.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2017-ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics.pdf/view

[Katy]

I'm sure the blackout strategy is to plead down to 2nd degree or something, hoping that after 5 weeks there isn't evidence of rape left.

I seriously doubt he snapped and killed an attractive female runner in a fit of rage, not after he admitted stalking her for at least two days and when she looked like his ex girlfriend and the mother of his child. No, he chased, raped, and then killed her, and came up with that defense strategy after reading that it worked for Casey Anthony.

[mom@shiloh]

So sad.  

Does it bother anyone else when the news reports continually put the pictures of the victim and the criminal side-by-side?  

[Just Kate]

4 hours ago, mom@shiloh said:

So sad.  

Does it bother anyone else when the news reports continually put the pictures of the victim and the criminal side-by-side?  

Yes. I’ve been feeling the same way. 

[HomeAgain]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:20 PM, Selkie said:

Just watched the press conference - so awful. She was chased down and abducted while jogging. The guy who murdered her is a 24-year-old who is in the country illegally.

 

On 8/21/2018 at 5:21 PM, Katy said:

Yeah, his name is Christian Rivera, he confessed.  Illegal immigrant.

ETA:  Linked video isn't yet updated, but the article is: https://www.kcci.com/article/report-suspect-in-custody-on-immigration-detainer-in-mollie-tibbetts-case/22791470

The Des Moines paper is reporting his lawyer and employer saying he was here legally.  New documents have been filed to show that. https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/investigations/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-alleged-killer-iowa-legally-lawyer-missing-student-body-found-brooklyn-trump/1064567002/

[Katy]

22 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

 

The Des Moines paper is reporting his lawyer and employer saying he was here legally.  New documents have been filed to show that. https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/investigations/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-alleged-killer-iowa-legally-lawyer-missing-student-body-found-brooklyn-trump/1064567002/

 

Well he's the father of an American citizen, and if he was brought here as a child he might legitimately have a second claim to stay here due to that.  But he was working under a different name and stolen documents according to his boss at the farm, who said he passed the e-verify system using a different name. Which is obviously a different figure than the politician sibling who lives no where near the farm. ETA:  Sorry, distracted by a child.  His lawyer was quoting a farm co-owner who doesn't work at the farm but has run for office in Iowa.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Katy

[TracyP]

16 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

 

The Des Moines paper is reporting his lawyer and employer saying he was here legally.  New documents have been filed to show that. https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/investigations/2018/08/22/mollie-tibbetts-alleged-killer-iowa-legally-lawyer-missing-student-body-found-brooklyn-trump/1064567002/

Actually the article says the opposite. Doesn't it? It says that his employer initially stated that he was here legally, but has since admitted that they never verified that. The employer now believes he was here illegally.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, TracyP said:

Actually the article says the opposite. Doesn't it? It says that his employer initially stated that he was here legally, but has since admitted that they never verified that. The employer now believes he was here illegally.

 

Yeah, I didn't get that from the article either.  The farm owner is trying to say the farm isn't responsible.  The family has been getting all sorts of threats.

I did watch the hearing yesterday, the judge has evidence he is not here legally.

[goldberry]

What I read was he submitted the correct documents to the farm.  The farm doesn't or didn't use e-verify to determine if the documents were legit.  It is not a requirement in all states.

 

[Selkie]

I believe the latest news is that he submitted a fake ID and fake social security number to the employer, which is what the employer used to verify. Employer is saying he went by a different name on the farm, not his actual name, Christhian Rivera.

[Katy]

29 minutes ago, goldberry said:

What I read was he submitted the correct documents to the farm.  The farm doesn't or didn't use e-verify to determine if the documents were legit.  It is not a requirement in all states.

 

 

They did verify through a government system, but the older one, not e-verify.  This was 4 years ago.

[TechWife]

I think his immigration status is a red herring, honestly. The fact is, he is either a murderer or he isn’t. That fact isn’t dependent upon his immigration status, but on the facts of the case. Crimes committed by immigrants are no more or less awful than crimes committed by citizens. 

 

[Lady Florida.]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

I think his immigration status is a red herring, honestly. The fact is, he is either a murderer or he isn’t. That fact isn’t dependent upon his immigration status, but on the facts of the case. Crimes committed by immigrants are no more or less awful than crimes committed by citizens. 

 

Exactly. This is about a man who committed violence against a woman. More native born American men than immigrants (documented or not) have committed the same kind of violent crime. 

[goldberry]

27 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

They did verify through a government system, but the older one, not e-verify.  This was 4 years ago.

 

Where did you see that?  I saw they had a DL and SS card but not that it was verified anywhere.  Not that it matters really, since it wasn't required, just curious.  

Adding, it's really unfair they are making such a big deal about it since it is not required.  Make it required if you want it done.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by goldberry

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, goldberry said:

 

Where did you see that?  I saw they had a DL and SS card but not that it was verified anywhere.  Not that it matters really, since it wasn't required, just curious.  

Adding, it's really unfair they are making such a big deal about it since it is not required.  Make it required if you want it done.

 

 

Iowa friends have posted tons of stuff on Facebook, most of it from the Des Moines Register or KCCI.  I think it was in a KCCI interview with the brother who manages the farm he worked at, but honestly I'm in a bit of a daze of late pregnancy insomnia so I'm not certain. I briefly lived in Brooklyn for work years ago.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that one could argue that there are two significant issues WRT his background.

One is whether he was raised to believe that women should not be 'uppity'.  That is a more common view in some cultures than others, and it may have been a factor in the rage that he said he felt.

The other is whether he felt more threatened by her saying she was going to call the police than most would be, since if he got picked up he would be deported.  That sets up a 'nothing to lose' scenario that makes the overall situation more dangerous.

It is absolutely true that violence against women is both rampant and completely unacceptable.  It has been interesting to watch folks take this incident into other directions on all sides.  However, the facts above should not be unsayable -- they are still facts.  The main fact, though, is that this was a gratuitous and completely egregious murder, an evil and unnecessary and despicable act.

[SamanthaCarter]

5 hours ago, TechWife said:

I think his immigration status is a red herring, honestly. The fact is, he is either a murderer or he isn’t. That fact isn’t dependent upon his immigration status, but on the facts of the case. Crimes committed by immigrants are no more or less awful than crimes committed by citizens. 

 

True.

But it matters because employers in the US have a civic duty to verify to the best of thier ability that they are hiring a legal employee. It’s not hard. I worked on an audit once for a pecan company whose employee files were virtually non-existent. Based on the names, geographical position and lack of photo ID, I think many of the hourly farm workers were illegal. I had the creeps over this company for the rest of the audit. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by SamanthaCarter

[TechWife]

Just now, SamanthaCarter said:

True.

But it matters because employers in the US have a civic duty to verify to the best of thier ability that they are hiring a legal employee. It’s not hard. I worked on an audit once for a pecan company whose employee files were virtually non-existent. Based on the names, geographical position and lack of photo, I think many of the hourly farm workers were illegal. I had the creeps over this company for the rest of the audit. 

How could it be a civic duty if the verification not a requirement of the law? Why aren’t people calling for the owners or managers in this company to be held accountable and charged as accomplices or accessories to murder? Why isn’t anyone talking about the need for a guest worker program to decrease the likelihood that companies would make use of undocumented workers? These are all related immigration issues. If his immigration status is truly an issue, then people would be working to address those issues so that situations like this would be less likely to arise. Instead, the majority are looking at his immigration status as an excuse for not doing a better job overall when it comes to crimes against women. 

There are so many issues of bias when it comes to publicizing crimes, arresting and trying people that it’s really concerning. Would we even know who this young woman was if she wasn’t a pretty white woman? Would we know who this man is if he were a lawful US citizen?  Meanwhile, thousands of people go missing, are sexually assaulted and murdered in the US annually. Where is the outrage over failure to fulfill our civic duty towards them? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

I guess it matters because a) it’s a lot harder to track someone for priors who is already living with falsified or dubious documentation and b) there is a very strong argument to be made that every murder by someone who is not supposed to be physically present in the country is an avoidable one. And Carol made an excellent point, too.

People aren’t getting needlessly upset over this.  This woman would be alive if he wasn’t here.  That’s just fact.  She wasn’t killed by some random dude who was was lawfully living his days in his societal space until he went postal and became a criminal - this man was a criminal already; and he upped it to violent criminal in the worst way.

We have enough monsters in our own population, I sure as heck don’t want anyone else’s.  And feel zero shame in saying so.

Here’s what torques my engine with regards to the perp’s immigration status: this was INSTANTLY used by the anti-Mexican population to say, “See? If we would just build the damn wall, this wouldn’t happen.” Well, if he overstayed a visa, that is inaccurate. (It is so hard to get a legitimate fact that I dare not state that as the case; only that that’s what I “heard” - he was here on an overstayed visa.) Also, the very people, both in my circle of aquaintances and in the national sense, who are quick to say, “oh, if we had a wall, this wouldn’t have happened,” are the same people who have nothing to say but “thoughts and prayers” whenever some wack-job white guy shoots a dozen people in a setting that should be inherently safe - church, school, a concert, a basebalł game. 

Not to mention that politicizing this murder is a convenient diversion from *other* news. 

[Guest]

Quote

here are so many issues of bias when it comes to publicizing crimes, arresting and trying people that it’s really concerning. Would we even know who this young woman was if she wasn’t a pretty white woman? Would we know who this man is if he were a lawful US citizen?  Meanwhile, thousands of people go missing, are sexually assaulted and murdered in the US annually. Where is the outrage over failure to fulfill our civic duty towards them? 

EXACTLY. 

[SamanthaCarter]

https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/information-employers-employees/information-employers-and-employees

[SamanthaCarter]

7 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

There are so many issues of bias when it comes to publicizing crimes, arresting and trying people that it’s really concerning. Would we even know who this young woman was if she wasn’t a pretty white woman? Would we know who this man is if he were a lawful US citizen?  Meanwhile, thousands of people go missing, are sexually assaulted and murdered in the US annually. Where is the outrage over failure to fulfill our civic duty towards them? 

Can an onlooker not be upset, frustrated, or heartbroken over more than one issue that this story touches on? 

[TechWife]

Just now, Arctic Mama said:

So we are saying that because some are ‘politicizing’ this (as though that never happens with crime, heh) and she is pretty we shouldn’t talk about it?

 

The level of publicity and heinousness of the crime are irrelevant.  And there are plenty of crimes I can think of where both individuals are white and legal. Deflections help nobody.

 Are you saying that the heinousness of the crime is irrelevant? What is relevant? Just his immigration status? The heinousness of his crime is exactly what is relevant. If you think the level of publicity is irrelevant, than I suggest you have that conversation with the family members of the next person who disappears. Publicity is very relevant. That’s why there are Amber Alerts, Silver Alerts and press conferences when people go missing. 

[TechWife]

4 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

Can an onlooker not be upset, frustrated, or heartbroken over more than one issue that this story touches on? 

I didn’t say that, whatever gives you that idea? I do think that the things that upset us and galvanize us reflect our priorities. 

[TechWife]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

No, I am literally arguing the exact opposite.  It is being claimed that its diningenuous to be upset and public about the crime and details here because of political bias or because she makes an attractive victim (and thereby salacious or whatever).

 

 

No, that is not what people are arguing at all. You are completely misunderstanding what we are saying. Completely.