Physical attraction in marriage

[Catwoman]

So, the person that she accepted as her partner has suddenly gained 200 lbs and her concern is that she doesn't find him attractive?

 

There are things that can result in weight gain that are not medical reasons. There are also many reasons why someone says they "don't care" about their weight gain and only one of them is that they actually don't care.

 

I would suggest that the wife in the above scenario show that she cares about his whole wellbeing instead of simply focus on the weight gain. Because, yeah - I think that's shallow.

But why are you assuming she doesn't care about his whole well-being? You seem to be saying that if she loves her husband, she is not allowed to find his 200 pound weight gain to be physically unappealing.

 

Why is he exempt from any responsibility in this situation? Why is she the shallow one if she is no longer physically attracted to a man who is now more than 200 pounds overweight?

[Scarlett]

Scarlett, what if your husband said "your face is ugly to me"? Could you unhear that? I have heard "you are not attractive to me because of your size" and I can't unhear that. Like Happiduck said, it can't be unheard. What if you couldn't afford to go have a surgical face change? Should you go into debt for it? To make your husband happy? The problem is that you are still leaning on the idea that everyone has control over it. I understand that for many people weight can be controlled. Less Ben and Jerry's and more movement. But that isn't the case for everyone. It isn't just like bathing and deodorant for everyone. And you can say science doesn't back me. Well, I have had two physicians tell me that science doesn't back that teething in a baby causes a fever either but everyone I know IRL will call that hogwash.

I Don't think it has to be said that way. I would probably say I am not happy that you have gained so much weight. He could say too bad I don't care what you think. Or he could say, yeah me either, I need to lose some weight. And we would brainstorm ways to accomplish that.

[Carol in Cal.]

True, but it's also possible she thought he was exaggerating and didn't really mean it.

Or maybe she had always been naturally thin and didn't actually realize that she might not be able to avoid changing later on.

 

I was like that when I was younger.  I had always been tiny, and had a thin mother and thin grandmother, and I thought I was naturally thin.  I was actually engaged when I was 19 to a guy who said that he had a horror of women getting fat.  He had observed women get very overweight, and their husband's cheating on them, and kind of felt that it was wrong but partly the women's faults for not remaining who their husband had actually married.  Super glad I did not marry this guy.  He was not superficial like he probably sounds here, but he was VERY judgmental and he would have destroyed me by erosion, fat or not.

 

But at the time, the 'horror of wives getting fat' didn't concern me that much for myself, because I really didn't think I could get fat.  Ha, live and learn.

[Jaybee]

What would you say in this conversation?

 

ETA: I see you answered that in another post.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Jaybee

[8circles]

But why are you assuming she doesn't care about his whole well-being? You seem to be saying that if she loves her husband, she is not allowed to find his 200 pound weight gain to be physically unappealing.

 

Why is he exempt from any responsibility in this situation? Why is she the shallow one if she is no longer physically attracted to a man who is now more than 200 pounds overweight?

 

I'm not assuming, I'm going by the info that you gave. If she does care about his whole wellbeing, why is she focused on his weight?

 

I don't think he is exempt from any responsibility. I don't know what his deal is - why he has gained so much weight - so what should I say about him? I wish he had a spouse who cared enough to help him get to the root of the problem and that he felt safe enough in his marriage to be honest about what he was going through.

[gardenmom5]

There is a prejudice against people who do not want an overweight spouse. 

 

I've also seen spouses divorce a sick/life-time injured spouse.  or something else that "changed".  I've heard the excuse "I didn't sign up for this".  uh - you did.  when you promised to stick with them forever.  yeah it's hard - but it's hard for both people.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I Don't think it has to be said that way. I would probably say I am not happy that you have gained so much weight. He could say too bad I don't care what you think. Or he could say, yeah me either, I need to lose some weight. And we would brainstorm ways to accomplish that.

 

 

You are right.  That would be so simple.  Life is exactly that simple.  Wow, I am so glad you enlightened me to this easy solution.

 

ETA:  I get that you don't get it.  You just can't get it.  It is unfathomable for you that something you can control is out of someone else's control.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Attolia

[rebbyribs]

I agree.

 

How about if we replace "gained a lot of weight" with "stopped bathing and using deodorant?" Would a spouse still be considered shallow if she wasn't physically attracted to her husband under those circumstances?

 

In general, I think we should be accepting of what we view as our spouse's flaws, but I'm not as certain about it when the situation becomes extreme. I'm also not sure how I would define "extreme," either, so this thread is very interesting to me.

 

BTDT!  Honestly, I was mostly bothered that he wouldn't consider the lack of personal hygiene and lack of leaving the house as symptoms of depression and consider evaluation and treatment.  I've been pregnant for a lot of the past decade, breastfeeding for all of it, and pretty much constantly sleep-deprived, so my desire for TeA has been all but non-existent. So I don't see where it really matters whether I find him attractive or not. It was harder to show any physical affection when he was so stinky, but it seemed like a time when he especially needed it.  

[unsinkable]

I agree.

 

How about if we replace "gained a lot of weight" with "stopped bathing and using deodorant?" Would a spouse still be considered shallow if she wasn't physically attracted to her husband under those circumstances?

 

In general, I think we should be accepting of what we view as our spouse's flaws, but I'm not as certain about it when the situation becomes extreme. I'm also not sure how I would define "extreme," either, so this thread is very interesting to me.

Maybe I'm not "the norm." I'm not "camera friendly." I don't "wear clothes that fit me." I'm not a "heartbreaker." I haven't "had sex with a woman;" I don't know "how that works." I guess I don't "fall in line." I'm not "hygenic." I don't "wipe properly." I lack "style." I have no "charisma" or "self esteem." I don't "own a toothbrush" or "let my scabs heal." I can't "reach all the parts of my body." When I sleep, I "sweat profusely."

 

RIP, Chris Farley. :crying:

[Catwoman]

I'm not assuming, I'm going by the info that you gave. If she does care about his whole wellbeing, why is she focused on his weight?

 

I don't think he is exempt from any responsibility. I don't know what his deal is - why he has gained so much weight - so what should I say about him? I wish he had a spouse who cared enough to help him get to the root of the problem and that he felt safe enough in his marriage to be honest about what he was going through.

She is focused on his weight because he weighs over 400 pounds. Google "naked 400 pound man" and tell me if you find that look to be sexually attractive. Seriously. I'm not being snarky.

 

I'm not sure why you're making the husband the victim here. You're making an awful lot of negative assumptions about the wife, but you're basically giving the husband a pass. I don't think that's fair at all.

 

She's not leaving him. She doesn't hate him. She worries about his health and she fusses over him when he gets sick. She helps him with his business. She both likes him and loves him. But when she looks at his 400+ pound body, she is not attracted to it.

 

You can call that shallow if you'd like, but if your dh ever gains over 200 pounds, I suspect you might feel a bit differently.

[Ravin]

There is always a reason. Not getting the weight off is almost always about excuses. Except anyone on this board. Their weight gain is the kind that can't be lost.

 

This kind of thinking feeds the crap that my dad used to throw at my mom. Not going to be that kind of jerk to my spouse.

[Ann.without.an.e]

You know, I did actually sit down with my husband and have a conversation. Nursing has made losing tricky because of supply dips. And waking up three or more times each night is also brutal. That is on top of the physiological and hormonal stuff. I asked him if I should wean Benny and take drastic measures or nurse and accept I’d be heavier while I did it. He thought and it and agreed that it was a better choice for the baby to get breastmilk longer, but that he supported whatever I wanted to do after that to manage the weight so I’d feel better, even if I was still heavy he knows how much I can’t stand being exhausted and sore all the time.

 

We even talked about possible surgical options and I was very nervous to brooch it with him, because it felt a little like cheating and failing and I lost it with effort and no help before. But he was incredibly supportive and not at all critical, though money is an issue.

 

And if it doesn’t work, he doesn’t love me less because I weigh a bunch and can’t budge it.

 

That’s how mature adults deal with these things without hurting one another. The other person can’t really be the one to bring it up though, it has to be the one who is affected. It’s just too personal.

 

 

This sounds good and reasonable.  :grouphug:

Edited October 24, 2017 by Attolia

[kitten18]

She is focused on his weight because he weighs over 400 pounds. Google "naked 400 pound man" and tell me if you find that look to be sexually attractive. Seriously. I'm not being snarky.

 

I'm not sure why you're making the husband the victim here. You're making an awful lot of negative assumptions about the wife, but you're basically giving the husband a pass. I don't think that's fair at all.

 

She's not leaving him. She doesn't hate him. She worries about his health and she fusses over him when he gets sick. She helps him with his business. She both likes him and loves him. But when she looks at his 400+ pound body, she is not attracted to it.

 

You can call that shallow if you'd like, but if your dh ever gains over 200 pounds, I suspect you might feel a bit differently.

Probably because people without medical conditions don't just gain an extra 200lbs.  

[Catwoman]

I've also seen spouses divorce a sick/life-time injured spouse. or something else that "changed". I've heard the excuse "I didn't sign up for this". uh - you did. when you promised to stick with them forever. yeah it's hard - but it's hard for both people.

I agree. I don't think anyone is saying weight is something to divorce someone over -- and it's awful to think that anyone would leave a spouse who was ill or permanently injured, although I know two women whose husbands left them when they got cancer, so I know there are truly terrible people out there. But I do think it's possible to lose the feeling of physical attraction in a situation like I mentioned, where the woman's dh gained over 200 pounds.

 

I'm not sure what the solution to that would be. Fortunately, my dh and I are still attracted to each other, so I have no personal experience with it.

[Scarlett]

I've also seen spouses divorce a sick/life-time injured spouse. or something else that "changed". I've heard the excuse "I didn't sign up for this". uh - you did. when you promised to stick with them forever. yeah it's hard - but it's hard for both people.

Which of course I don't support. I take my marriage vows very seriously and put up with very painful crap in my first marriage. But he knew what was painful for me. He could never say well I didn't know it bothered you.

[Scarlett]

Probably because people without medical conditions don't just gain an extra 200lbs.

Once they gain 200 pounds I am sure they have many medical problems. But sure people gain weight all of the time due to lifestyle choices.

[Catwoman]

Probably because people without medical conditions don't just gain an extra 200lbs.

He does not have a medical condition. He sees doctors regularly and he's actually remarkably healthy for a 400 pound man.

 

He has lost over 100 pounds twice in the past, so he can lose weight when he makes an effort, but he gained it all back and then some because he loves to eat. He acknowledges that he could lose the weight if he tried, but he says he loves food too much to limit himself.

[Catwoman]

Once they gain 200 pounds I am sure they have many medical problems. But sure people gain weight all of the time due to lifestyle choices.

This man freely admits that he gains weight due to his lifestyle choices. He's not shy about it, and he doesn't make any excuses for it.

 

He considers it to be his wife's problem, not his, if she doesn't like it that he weighs 400 pounds.

[Scarlett]

Try purposefully eating your way up to 350 pounds or so and let me know if you can do it. Seriously. Cheetos and butter are indeed self limiting unless your body grossly misuses energy. I’ve been better and worse on this point, the ravenous hunger thing is definitely different and I wish I could be free of it again. Damn endocrine system :(

No thank you.

[SparklyUnicorn]

But really I see my attraction to my spouse as primarily my issue to deal with not his.

 

This is one of the benefits of not being particular attractive.  LMAO

 

Seriously...."looks" aren't one of my better features.  Neither is my husband's.  So nothing will ever be lost that was never there.  :lol: :lol:

[Catwoman]

Having been the fatter person (meds - yes, truly, wonders of prednisone) and having received unkind words from my spouse, I suggest that whichever spouse is bothered goes to therapy or something first to work out ways of raising the issue that won't smash the other's persons heart, or they may find themselves decidely tealess whether spouse is fat, thin or in between.

 

It's OK to feel unattracted. God knows, I don't feel attracted to people who use mean words. It's what you do with the feeling that counts.

I think that's excellent advice. :hurray:

 

By the way, I love your new avatar photo -- you look gorgeous and I am totally envious of your beautiful hair!

[Crimson Wife]

What about the results of medication that was needed to keep a person alive and functional?

 

The results of epigenetic modifications in the DNA of a person's parent or grandparent?

 

The results of autoimmune disease?

 

The results of a sleep disorder?

 

The results of excessive stress in a person's life?

 

There are so many things that contribute to weight beyond individual life choices.

 

Obviously if my DH had a legitimate medical condition that resulted in excess weight despite diligent efforts to stay active and eat healthy I would consider that part of the "in sickness or in health".

 

But the "I don't give a fig and will just be lazy & eat junk food regardless of the impact on my health" is a COMPLETELY different situation. The issue there is not so much the weight but the laziness and gluttony.

[gardenmom5]

I agree. I don't think anyone is saying weight is something to divorce someone over -- and it's awful to think that anyone would leave a spouse who was ill or permanently injured, although I know two women whose husbands left them when they got cancer, so I know there are truly terrible people out there. But I do think it's possible to lose the feeling of physical attraction in a situation like I mentioned, where the woman's dh gained over 200 pounds.

 

I'm not sure what the solution to that would be. Fortunately, my dh and I are still attracted to each other, so I have no personal experience with it.

 

 

dh has never been the "tall, dark, and handsome" that is physically appealing to me - but the intellectual meeting of minds is way more enticing.

and I have more gray than him.   (it's not fair.  I've given up on foils and am embracing it.)

and we're both overweight.

 

oh, and I have seen people (other places) advise divorcing an obese spouse.

[Ann.without.an.e]

nm

Edited October 24, 2017 by Attolia

[8circles]

She is focused on his weight because he weighs over 400 pounds. Google "naked 400 pound man" and tell me if you find that look to be sexually attractive. Seriously. I'm not being snarky.

 

I'm not sure why you're making the husband the victim here. You're making an awful lot of negative assumptions about the wife, but you're basically giving the husband a pass. I don't think that's fair at all.

 

She's not leaving him. She doesn't hate him. She worries about his health and she fusses over him when he gets sick. She helps him with his business. She both likes him and loves him. But when she looks at his 400+ pound body, she is not attracted to it.

 

You can call that shallow if you'd like, but if your dh ever gains over 200 pounds, I suspect you might feel a bit differently.

 

I'm not giving him a pass, at all.

 

I'm not making him a victim, at all.

 

There are more important things than the fact that he is over 400 lbs. One doesn't *just* gain 200 lbs because Cheetos and lazy. Yet it's the 400 lbs that are the problem... OK then.

 

I can only comment on what you have shared - I don't know these people. You've shared that she cares about how his weight has made him unattractive but nothing about his health otherwise. 

[kiana]

Try purposefully eating your way up to 350 pounds or so and let me know if you can do it. Seriously. Cheetos and butter are indeed self limiting unless your body grossly misuses energy. I’ve been better and worse on this point, the ravenous hunger thing is definitely different and I wish I could be free of it again. Damn endocrine system :(

 

I could, easily. 

 

There are some foods that just are not self limiting for me -- and for many other people that I know. Cheetos, for example, I do not care for, but I could easily eat an entire pound of sesame sticks, or an entire family size bag of potato chips, washed down with 2 liters of soda, as a snack between meals (and I used to do this, on a daily basis). 

 

I mean, these foods are engineered to not be self-limiting. We have corporations sitting figuring out how to make food so that we'll be inclined to take just one bite more. Even knowing this, if I'm at a party and this stuff is out, I won't be able to stop myself from eating until it's gone. I can't have them in the house because they call my name.

 

So I guess my point is -- these foods bypass all of the body's natural satiety responses, so that even people without medical conditions won't fill up on them. 

[maize]

I was just using them as an example - but I for one am obese, and couldn’t eat a bag of chips every day. Or cookies. Or even soda. Nope.

 

That’s why I secretly hate those people who cut out junk food and lose weight. I never ate that crap in any significant quantity, and my BMI has still jumped from 27 to 50 in two and a half years. It’s enough to make me cry. Or give up. I worked for YEARS to deal with my natural state of pudgy to fat, lost a ton, kept it off, and then all that effort went down the drain and now I try AND I don’t even look good.

 

I detest these discussions, they just make me feel worthless. I’m glad plenty of people think this is a choice. I’m also assuming they aren’t the ones trapped in morbidly obese bodies and just wishing they could sit on the floor and play with their kids or have the energy to get out of bed.

:Grouphug:

 

It is so hard sometimes for people to understand what they have not experienced :(

[Catwoman]

I'm not giving him a pass, at all.

 

I'm not making him a victim, at all.

 

There are more important things than the fact that he is over 400 lbs. One doesn't *just* gain 200 lbs because Cheetos and lazy. Yet it's the 400 lbs that are the problem... OK then.

 

I can only comment on what you have shared - I don't know these people. You've shared that she cares about how his weight has made him unattractive but nothing about his health otherwise.

 

I absolutely did NOT say that she doesn't care about his health. I have stated multiple times that she DOES worry about his health. She makes sure that he goes to the doctor. She has insisted that he monitor his blood pressure and that he has regular physicals and blood work. But she can't make him stop eating so much. She cooks healthy meals, but he goes out for more food. She doesn't buy junky snacks, but he comes home with grocery bags filled with them, and she says he always has lots of food in his office. She suggests going for walks or doing other active things, but he'd rather park himself in front of the TV.

 

I feel sorry for her. She's not going to leave him. She really loves him. She just struggles with the fact that she's no longer physically attracted to him. I honestly believe that she would find him more attractive if she thought he was making any kind of effort to try to lose some weight. Maybe part of the lack of attraction is that he doesn't seem to care at all about his appearance or have any interest in trying to be attractive to her. He thinks she should still think he's hot stuff, but I can understand why she's having a hard time with that.

 

Edited to add -- I hope the tone of my posts isn't coming across as being snotty to you! I feel like I'm having a hard time explaining the situation, but I didn't mean to seem like I'm annoyed with you, because I'm not! Sorry if I'm coming across the wrong way!

Edited October 24, 2017 by Catwoman

[Murphy101]

Why?

 

If the point of the fantasy is to be able to enjoy tEa with one's spouse, isn't that better than not enjoying tEa?

 

Fantasizing about the neighbour's spouse is obviously not a good idea, but a fantasy involving, say, a more attractive version of one's own spouse, or an entirely imaginary partner, or even a movie star one is never going to meet in real life could be just what it takes to get the pot whistling.

I’d rather my husband not come to our bed at all than come to it thinking about anyone else in an effort to avoid thinking of the reality of having sex with me. I mean... damn, way to twist the adultery knife in a new painful way. If I’m that hideous to him, I’d rather he just go to the sofa. No thanks.

[8circles]

I absolutely did NOT say that she doesn't care about his health. I have stated multiple times that she DOES worry about his health. She makes sure that he goes to the doctor. She has insisted that he monitor his blood pressure and that he has regular physicals and blood work. But she can't make him stop eating so much. She cooks healthy meals, but he goes out for more food. She doesn't buy junky snacks, but he comes home with grocery bags filled with them, and she says he always has lots of food in his office. She suggests going for walks or doing other active things, but he'd rather park himself in front of the TV.

 

I feel sorry for her. She's not going to leave him. She really loves him. She just struggles with the fact that she's no longer physically attracted to him. I honestly believe that she would find him more attractive if she thought he was making any kind of effort to try to lose some weight. Maybe part of the lack of attraction is that he doesn't seem to care at all about his appearance or have any interest in trying to be attractive to her. He thinks she should still think he's hot stuff, but I can understand why she's having a hard time with that.

 

Edited to add -- I hope the tone of my posts isn't coming across as being snotty to you! I feel like I'm having a hard time explaining the situation, but I didn't mean to seem like I'm annoyed with you, because I'm not! Sorry if I'm coming across the wrong way!

& I'm saying people don't just do this because they like cookies & want to see what happens in Westeros.

 

But it's much easier to just think it does. So carry on.

[Murphy101]

He doesn’t care at all about his appearance? That’s way more than weight. That’s hygiene too? Like he won’t shave or brush his teeth or ???

 

Because I’d just say straight up, that’s mental illness and needs dealt with no matter what their sexual life is. Maybe he is depressed or something. Idk. But caring enough about appearance to care about hygiene should be a priority no matter what’s going on in bed.

 

The weight.... he is going to do what he is going to do and she has to be a wife, not a mom nurse stand in. Does he want to lose weight? Is he concerned about his health? Could he have a thyroid or other issue? (Personally, low thyroid made my food cravings and appetite insane ridiculous and extremely difficult to control. And affected my weight too.)

[Catwoman]

& I'm saying people don't just do this because they like cookies & want to see what happens in Westeros.

 

But it's much easier to just think it does. So carry on.

You can say whatever you like. It doesn't make it true.

 

I'm not sure why you are so convinced that you know more about the situation than I do, when you don't know either of the people involved.

 

You seem to have a real prejudice against the wife, but I can't figure out why you have no sympathy for her at all and why you seem to only be looking for excuses as to why it's fine for the husband to keep gaining more and more weight, yet it's wrong for her to not feel sexually attracted to a 400+ pound man who has absolutely no interest in losing weight and doesn't care if he gains even more.

 

Clearly, we won't agree on this.

[amy g.]

I have so sympathy for her because she is overly concerned with her own emotions and desires.

 

She is focusing on her spouse's weak area rather than just appreciating his good qualities.

 

She would rather blame him than fix herself.

 

Yep.

 

No sympathy at all.

[Catwoman]

He doesn’t care at all about his appearance? That’s way more than weight. That’s hygiene too? Like he won’t shave or brush his teeth or ???

 

Because I’d just say straight up, that’s mental illness and needs dealt with no matter what their sexual life is. Maybe he is depressed or something. Idk. But caring enough about appearance to care about hygiene should be a priority no matter what’s going on in bed.

 

The weight.... he is going to do what he is going to do and she has to be a wife, not a mom nurse stand in. Does he want to lose weight? Is he concerned about his health? Could he have a thyroid or other issue? (Personally, low thyroid made my food cravings and appetite insane ridiculous and extremely difficult to control. And affected my weight too.)

No, that's not the case at all. I'm not sure where you got the idea that he doesn't care about his overall appearance -- I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that and I should have specified -- he just doesn't care about his weight. He doesn't think it matters. He's a very successful guy. He dresses very well, his hygiene is fine, he shaves and gets regular haircuts.

 

He has had a lot of medical testing, mainly because the wife insisted on it, and he has been fine. I don't know what tests he has had because I didn't think it was my business to ask a lot of detailed questions, but I know for sure that his thyroid is okay because the wife mentioned that she'd had a thyroid issue for a while and she thought about that potentially being an issue for him, too. She is so worried that his weight will affect his health and she doesn't want to lose him. I know that 8circles seems to think she doesn't care about him, but she does. She is always worrying about him.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Catwoman

[8circles]

You can say whatever you like. It doesn't make it true.

 

I'm not sure why you are so convinced that you know more about the situation than I do, when you don't know either of the people involved.

 

You seem to have a real prejudice against the wife, but I can't figure out why you have no sympathy for her at all and why you seem to only be looking for excuses as to why it's fine for the husband to keep gaining more and more weight, yet it's wrong for her to not feel sexually attracted to a 400+ pound man who has absolutely no interest in losing weight and doesn't care if he gains even more.

 

Clearly, we won't agree on this.

 

I have said that I don't know these people and am just responding to your example.

 

I'm saying that there are more important things to focus on than the sexual attractiveness angle. When one's spouse appears to have suddenly decided that eating junk & watching TV is more important than basically anything else, finding the reasons why that has happened should be the priority. Not - "He's not attractive anymore". 

 

I'm betting, dollars to donuts, that, again, it isn't just Cheetos & lazy. The fact that medical doctors say he's healthy & he says he just doesn't care, doesn't make those things true either. 

[8circles]

Google "naked 400 pound man" and tell me if you find that look to be sexually attractive. Seriously. I'm not being snarky.

 

For the record, I'm not 400 lbs, neither is my DH.

 

But I'm sure all the obese people reading this thread who have "legit" reasons for being obese, are totally cool with this kind of conversation.

[Catwoman]

I have so sympathy for her because she is overly concerned with her own emotions and desires.

 

She is focusing on her spouse's weak area rather than just appreciating his good qualities.

 

She would rather blame him than fix herself.

 

Yep.

 

No sympathy at all.

I'm honestly curious about this, Amy. How can she fix herself?

 

I think it's possible to appreciate a person's good qualities, yet still lose the physical attraction for that person, particularly in extreme cases like this one.

 

FWIW, she does seem to blame herself for not feeling attracted to him. She loves him and wishes she felt differently.

[MotherGoose]

I believe marriage is bigger than myself. It's foundational to society as the primary fabric in the social safety net. As a Christian it's an earthly reflection of the relationship between Christ and The Church. If Jesus can love us in spite of our sin, which is repellent to his nature, surely I can overlook my spouse not meeting my personal preferences of attractiveness. So I'm in the grow up; get over it category. Yes, different people find different things attractive and they're allowed to, but on the list of important things in life, that doesn't even make the list.

 

I'm attracted to smart men. My husband is a Mensa member but if he gets Alzheimer's or a head injury, I won't be complaining about it. Most people lose some brain capacity by 50 without it being considered a medical condition. I'm an not into overweight or super skinny guys, but if that happens it won't allow it to bother me. It may not be my preference, but it's certainly not anything I would allow myself to focus on.

 

I know we're in the post-Victorian age and in the west, but I think a lack of history education actually feeds this kind of thing. Arranged marriage has serious problems, and I'm not advocating a return to it, but I do think its best point is that it doesn't feed the hyper-romanticized notions that bombard people today in romance novels, chick flicks, and relationship articles. Remember, I'm saying that as we stand in the wreckage of the peak of divorce culture. Modern day has the most romanticized notions humanity has ever seen. No, romantic love (attraction + infatuation) is not necessary for a successful, fulfilling marriage. It's a really nice perk that I hope everyone has, but frankly, it's not an adult view of the institution. There's a very good reason "When I was a child I thought like a child....when I became a man I put away childish things" is right in the middle of the 1 Corinthians chapter on love, and the situation the OP describes is the kind of thing Paul was addressing. Real love isn't about getting, it's about giving. Marriage is just bigger than me. (I do think there are legitimate reasons for divorce, so don't add those replies to all the replies I'm about to get about how some people here couldn't possibly function in a non-romantic marriage or how obesity is ultimately a moral issue.)

Truth.

[amy g.]

My dad was supposed to move across the country with the love of his life. She bought a house just for him in the town he loved.

 

She moved and started her new job. He was supposed to start packing and join her.

 

He just couldn't make progress. A year went by. And then another one.

 

Why couldn't he get it together?

 

We insisted that he get a full medical work up. Everything seemed fine.

 

A few months later, he was diagnosed with stage IV cancer. The doctors couldn't believe how anemic he was.

 

Clearly, he didn't go from fine to dying in 60 days. I asked a doctor friend how the first hospital could have missed it. She said it is horrifyingly easy to miss. She had seen it happen to other patients before.

 

So no, I don't just assume that i know when people are perfectly healthy.

[creekland]

But.  When one person really wants to spend time hiking and biking on a regular basis and intrepid-traveling on an occasional basis, and the other person used to enjoy such things and now doesn't have the energy for them or the ability to enjoy them... that can grow to be a bigger-picture wedge.  Either the still-peppy person foregoes what he/she loves to do, which has an emotional cost... or the still-peppy person continues to do such things with other people, which also can increase emotional distance over time.  

 

And when a couple loses the ability to *do things together* that both people enjoy doing... that can spill over into intimacy.  Maybe not quite the same thing as sheerly visual "attraction," but I think related.  Over the long haul, in my experience at least, the sheerly visual recedes in importance and other variables like communication and values and the quality of shared time matter relatively more.

 

Yikes!  I'm even more glad that I have my hubby.  My health has gotten to the point (at age 50) where I can't do all the hiking (esp hills) that I used to be able to do and it isn't likely to get better.

 

Fortunately, my hubby (and boys) have graciously adjusted what they do to match what I can do.  They willingly took donkeys up a hill to the Monastery in Petra knowing I couldn't go otherwise.  They willingly slow down and avoid things I can't do.  I willingly watch them do some things I can't do.  I haven't noticed an emotional cost in them - maybe I'm not looking hard enough?  I can't imagine getting upset at hubby or the boys over something similar happening to them.  I'd happily adjust.  Intimacy sure wouldn't be affected (with hubby).

 

We're going through the places in our bucket list that require better health and have moved them to the top.  There's no thought at all that one or the other of us would just go there without our partner or feel deprived and resentful if it couldn't happen.  We'd just change to get something that fit us both.

 

Life happens.  I love him - no matter what happens to him.  He feels the same way about me (or sure seems to anyway).  

 

I know a lady whose husband divorced her over cancer.  I know kids whose parents have disowned them over cancer or similar.  I've never been able to relate.

[Catwoman]

I have said that I don't know these people and am just responding to your example.

 

I'm saying that there are more important things to focus on than the sexual attractiveness angle. When one's spouse appears to have suddenly decided that eating junk & watching TV is more important than basically anything else, finding the reasons why that has happened should be the priority. Not - "He's not attractive anymore".

 

I'm betting, dollars to donuts, that, again, it isn't just Cheetos & lazy. The fact that medical doctors say he's healthy & he says he just doesn't care, doesn't make those things true either.

The only reason I have focused on the sexual attractiveness angle is because that was where the thread was heading when I first posted about it. It's not like this woman spends all her time talking about how she's not attracted to her husband. I'm sure it's not her number one priority in life. Most of her comments about him are actually very positive.

 

And even if you're correct about him having a bigger problem than his weight, what is his wife supposed to do about it when he won't acknowledge that there's anything wrong at all? He says he's perfectly happy as he is, and he feels no need to change.

 

This woman feels like she's between a rock and a hard place because how can she help someone who doesn't think he needs any help? But she's not going to leave him because she loves him.

 

I think she is in a very tough spot. I know some people here don't feel sorry for her, but I do.

[amy g.]

I'm honestly curious about this, Amy. How can she fix herself?

 

I think it's possible to appreciate a person's good qualities, yet still lose the physical attraction for that person, particularly in extreme cases like this one.

 

FWIW, she does seem to blame herself for not feeling attracted to him. She loves him and wishes she felt differently.

We have talked about this on the boards before. In fact, this is where I learned everything I know about people with low sex drive.

 

First, I'd have her take vitamins and amino acids that help to balance her own hormones. I'd add a daily dose of Maca for "sexual wellbeing".

 

It has also been suggested that women can use lubricant well before bed time to get in the mood.

 

Personally, I'd add a romantic movie or book for myself. I'd start each day with a list of 10 things that are irreplaceable about my husband. I'd set the mood with candles and soft music.

 

I'd recognize that I'm the one with the problem.

[ErinE]

*snip*

I detest these discussions, they just make me feel worthless. I’m glad plenty of people think this is a choice. I’m also assuming they aren’t the ones trapped in morbidly obese bodies and just wishing they could sit on the floor and play with their kids or have the energy to get out of bed.

 

You are not worthless. I completely understand what you're saying. I was someone who was smaller and while I understood then that people struggled with their weight for health reasons, living the reality has been eye-opening.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I was just using them as an example - but I for one am obese, and couldn’t eat a bag of chips every day. Or cookies. Or even soda. Nope.

 

That’s why I secretly hate those people who cut out junk food and lose weight. I never ate that crap in any significant quantity, and my BMI has still jumped from 27 to 50 in two and a half years. It’s enough to make me cry. Or give up. I worked for YEARS to deal with my natural state of pudgy to fat, lost a ton, kept it off, and then all that effort went down the drain and now I try AND I don’t even look good.

 

I detest these discussions, they just make me feel worthless. I’m glad plenty of people think this is a choice. I’m also assuming they aren’t the ones trapped in morbidly obese bodies and just wishing they could sit on the floor and play with their kids or have the energy to get out of bed.

 

 

Lawdy, preach.  Like for real.  I have had people tell me "oh, it is easy, I just cut soda and lost 20 pounds" or "cut sugar".  I don't drink soda and I rarely have sugar.  It makes it even more obvious when people try to offer their suggestions.  Someone told me to cut back to 1400 calories a day.  I track my calories most of the time and I usually eat around 1000, sometimes dipping to 500 and sometimes splurging to 1500 on weekends or special occasions, but mostly I stay around 800-1000 most normal days.  My body loves pudge.  It is where it wants to be.  It is convinced there is a famine around the corner.  I have to fight tooth and nail to stay where I am and losing is near impossible.

 

ETA:  We have to somehow find our worthiness outside of our size but that is d*mn near impossible in our culture and society.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Attolia

[umsami]

For those of you who would like to know more about the science behind weight loss and why diets do not work, I strongly suggest Gina Kolata's book (NY Times health writer) "Rethinking Thin."  I wish it had updated info on the microbiome and how it affects weight, but it doesn't AFAIK.  "Salt, Sugar, Fat" is also excellent to help you understand what people are up against.

 

Here's one article on it http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/books/review/Bazelon.t.html

 

This quote says it all about how Americans view being fat:

"If you had to choose, would you rather be fat or blind? When a researcher asked that question of a group of formerly obese people, 89 percent said they would prefer to lose their sight than their hard-won slimness. “When you’re blind, people want to help you. No one wants to help you when you’re fat,†one explained. Ninety-one percent of the group also chose having a leg amputated over a return to obesity."

 

"Kolata marshals scientific evidence to explain why keeping weight off is so difficult. (The discovery last month of a garden-variety “fat gene†further backs her up.) Fat people have more fat cells than other people. Their metabolisms are normal but their appetites are larger — after they lose a significant amount of weight, one researcher explains, they often feel “a primal hunger†as strong as the urge a thirsty person feels to drink. Studies of twins and of adopted children show that inheritance may account for as much as 70 percent of weight variance. In one study of adopted children, 80 percent of those with two obese birth parents became obese, compared with 14 percent of those with birth parents of normal weight — and it didn’t much matter what the adoptive parents fed the kids."

 

 

For those of you who've never been morbidly obese, you really have no clue.  Nobody would actively choose to be obese in the United States where discrimination against fat people (especially fat women) is legal in most states.  There's a reason why Weight Watchers, diet books, gyms, etc. all do so well, yet we get fatter each year.

 

Did you know that it's more than just calories in, calories out? Even zoo animals, who have a highly controlled diet, are fatter than ever.  That's why some view it as a change in our microbiome, caused by pesticides and who knows what.  https://psmag.com/social-justice/just-people-getting-fatter-65342

 

If you go to PubMed, there is not one diet out there that has lead to long-term lasting weight loss for obese or morbidly obese people.  Not one.  10% weight loss is considered the standard of success for obesity meds.  If you weigh 250 pounds, that means you're a success if you hit 225.  Guess what, you're still fat, likely still obese.   Bariatric surgery is better, but long term results vary depending on procedure.  Right now, the best is the duodenal switch which involves a sleeve gastrectomy (permanently removing 70-90% depending on surgeon) of your stomach and bypassing a large portion of your small intestine.  You lose weight both through reducing input, and malabsorption, which also means you have to supplement the fat soluble vitamins and protein.   Even with bariatric surgery, a good portion do regain back the weight.  Even missing 90% of their stomachs or bypassing a portion of their intestines.  With the sleeve gastrectomy, most will lose 50% or so and keep it off for 5 years.  Yes, there are exceptions, but this is the data.  So, if you are 100 pounds overweight, you lose 50.  Once again, you're probably still fat.  Likely obese.  Are you healthier? Sure.   Will you still get berated by others for being fat? Yup. 

 

I'll add that obesity is a real complex disease, not a moral issue. It is not a disease that is well understood yet by researchers, either.   People do not choose obesity just as they do not choose cancer.  In hospital lab studies, when people are put on controlled diets, people of the same weight, age, height will lose/gain at different rates.  It is not a simple equation for most.  The body's desire to regain the weight is enormous, as well.  Every diet, makes it harder to keep it off, too.  

 

It's just not that simple, people.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by umsami

[Catwoman]

My dad was supposed to move across the country with the love of his life. She bought a house just for him in the town he loved.

 

She moved and started her new job. He was supposed to start packing and join her.

 

He just couldn't make progress. A year went by. And then another one.

 

Why couldn't he get it together?

 

We insisted that he get a full medical work up. Everything seemed fine.

 

A few months later, he was diagnosed with stage IV cancer. The doctors couldn't believe how anemic he was.

 

Clearly, he didn't go from fine to dying in 60 days. I asked a doctor friend how the first hospital could have missed it. She said it is horrifyingly easy to miss. She had seen it happen to other patients before.

 

So no, I don't just assume that i know when people are perfectly healthy.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry about your dad. :(

[MissShellyA]

How much weight are we talking? Would it absolutely shatter your partner to suggest going on a diet? Being overweight isn't good for your health, so losing the weight is probably a good thing for them to do long-term either way. If they're just a little pudgy and you're upset they don't have the same body they had in their 20s then I think you need to take the comments made here about deeper attraction seriously and ask if there isn't something more emotional at play here?

[SparklyUnicorn]

We have talked about this on the boards before. In fact, this is where I learned everything I know about people with low sex drive.

 

First, I'd have her take vitamins and amino acids that help to balance her own hormones. I'd add a daily dose of Maca for "sexual wellbeing".

 

It has also been suggested that women can use lubricant well before bed time to get in the mood.

 

Personally, I'd add a romantic movie or book for myself. I'd start each day with a list of 10 things that are irreplaceable about my husband. I'd set the mood with candles and soft music.

 

I'd recognize that I'm the one with the problem.

 

I think this shows how little you actually know about this problem. 

[Catwoman]

We have talked about this on the boards before. In fact, this is where I learned everything I know about people with low sex drive.

 

First, I'd have her take vitamins and amino acids that help to balance her own hormones. I'd add a daily dose of Maca for "sexual wellbeing".

 

It has also been suggested that women can use lubricant well before bed time to get in the mood.

 

Personally, I'd add a romantic movie or book for myself. I'd start each day with a list of 10 things that are irreplaceable about my husband. I'd set the mood with candles and soft music.

 

I'd recognize that I'm the one with the problem.

But if that's the case, are you saying that the husband has no responsibility? Is the wife entirely to blame for not being attracted to a husband who has gained over 200 pounds and who doesn't care if he gains even more weight?

 

Doesn't he have any responsibility to her? Shouldn't he be making some kind of effort as well?

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative -- I'm trying to understand your mindset. I can understand the wife doing what she can to make the best of the situation, but I don't think that absolves the husband of his responsibility to try to be attractive to his wife, as well.

[ktgrok]

So I know of a couPle who are free with their TMI because we are family, right?! Anyway the husband was 200 pounds overweight. She had to help him wipe his bum when he went to the toilet. I don't think any tEA was brewing anyway because if a man is that obese probably things don't work anymore. They were late 50s. Anyway I told dh if he ever got that obese, well, first, I wouldn't enable him by wiping his bum if the only reason was that he was too obese to do it, (Not elderly, otherwise I'll, etc.) and secondly I could not fathom having tEA in that situation. Doesn't mean I would leave him or stray from the marriage, but our marriage would no longer be about physical attraction.

 

There is a big difference between overweight and super morbidly obese. That's a medical condition, and I'd do my best to make sure said person was getting the very best medical help possible, most likely bariatric surgery. Someone going through chemo who is weak, pale, and vomiting constantly isn't a turn on either, but I wouldn't leave my spouse because of it. We'd partner up and fight the medical problem. 

 

Now, if said spouse didn't care and had no desire to address the issue, that's a game changer, but honestly I've never met anyone that LIKED being morbidly obese even if they put up a brave front and say they don't care.