Help me with a consequence

[Scarlett]

My 17 1/2 year old has a speeding problem.  We have LIFE 360 so I can see how fast he goes.

 

He has been counseled and warned and he does better for a while but then slips back into bad habits.  

 

Would you ground him?  If so how long?  This is painful for him because he goes out a lot and he really likes his freedom.

 

Would you fine him?  If so how much?  It needs to sting....like so much for each mile he goes over the speed limit. This would hurt him too because he is trying to save money.  

 

When I was his age I drove like a maniac.  If I had been monitored like he is I am sure I would have been in constant trouble.  Or maybe changed my ways.  I don't know.  I don't want to be a hypocrite but I do think it is a serious matter and I want to help him work on good habits while he is still home.  

 

 

[OrganicJen]

It really depends on the child since consequences are so personal.  I know when I was that age I sometimes sped too, not often though, but I also cared about not getting in trouble so if I were monitored I would have definitely made sure not to speed at all.  If it were my child I would probably ground him each time it happened as I don't think he would care about paying a fine.  I take things like speeding very seriously since I consider cars deadly weapons and I'd rather ground my child than have them responsible for killing someone else's or themselves of course.  

[Elizabeth86]

I would take his car for a while. I was a safe teen driver so I can say that hypicrite. Dh on the other hand...

I dont have a teen so feel free to ignore me. I just know teen drivers can and should be safe.

[HeartString]

Take his keys for a week for each instance.

[HomeAgain]

Well, I'd go one of two ways.

 

1. He wouldn't drive.  Can't be responsible, don't get the privilege.  Demonstrate responsibility and earn driving time back.

 

2. He wouldn't drive because he'd be paying for his own insurance.  I'm not carrying the financial responsibility of his bad choices.  Pay, or don't drive.

[hornblower]

I guess it would depend how bad. I mean if it's the going a bit over like every one is in traffic, I would talk about it but not do anything more. 

If it's consistently a lot more, I'd issue a speeding ticket myself. Check what a ticket is in your area and pick a reasonable amount similar or more. 

Here they start around $140 for first infraction. They go up each time you get caught. 

For excessive speeding (40kph over = ~ 25 mph) it's $360 and 60kph (37mph) over it's almost 500 on first offence. Plus you get 'points' on your licence which make your insurance rates go up.  They will also impound your car for serious speeding. 



You could also try to use positive reinforcement since you can track his driving.

 

Every month his speed is legal, give him a reward like a gift card to a restaurant or favourite store. If his speeding habit is too engrained, you may need to  make the reward window smaller - like every week to give him greater chance to succeed. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by hornblower

[Catwoman]

It's okay to be a hypocrite on an issue like this. This isn't just about your son. This is also about the safety of everyone else on the road.

 

What I don't understand is why he is dumb enough to keep speeding when he knows you're monitoring him. :confused: Is he so arrogant that he thinks he will keep getting away with it?

 

If he's still speeding when he knows you will find out about it and when you have already discussed it with him, I think you are well within your rights to make the consequence fairly harsh.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Catwoman

[maize]

How much over the seed limit is he going? On what kind of roads?

[AppleGreen]

How much of a problem? Is it 5 miles? (I don't think i would do much if that was the case). 10? 15? I would probably revoke his driving privileges for a week. I like the idea of reinforcing the positive behavior. I guess it all depends on how fast he is driving. 

[Catwoman]

I was thinking about suggesting that he lose his driving privileges as a consequence for speeding, but I think that might end up being more of a punishment for Scarlett than it is for her son, because I'm pretty sure he does quite a bit of necessary driving for things like school and work, and if he can't drive, she would have to be his taxi service.

 

I like the idea of issuing him tickets, though. I never would have thought of that!

[SKL]

How much is he exceeding the speed limit?  If it's less than 10mph I would let it go.

 

If it's more than 10mph over, I would give him a $100 speeding ticket each time.  Tell him that's cheap because a real ticket would be more $$ and ding his insurance too.

 

Like in real life, 6 tickets = suspension.

 

Automatic suspension if he's more than 20 over.

[Rosie_0801]

Well, I'd go one of two ways.

 

1. He wouldn't drive.  Can't be responsible, don't get the privilege.  Demonstrate responsibility and earn driving time back.

 

2. He wouldn't drive because he'd be paying for his own insurance.  I'm not carrying the financial responsibility of his bad choices.  Pay, or don't drive.

 

This is what would happen at my place.

 

And he'd get a defensive driving course for his 18th birthday. *And* I'd be checking with the class provider about his attitude before I'd let him drive my car again.

[AppleGreen]

I was thinking about suggesting that he lose his driving privileges as a consequence for speeding, but I think that might end up being more of a punishment for Scarlett than it is for her son, because I'm pretty sure he does quite a bit of necessary driving for things like school and work, and if he can't drive, she would have to be his taxi service.

 

I like the idea of issuing him tickets, though. I never would have thought of that!

I had the same thought. 

[AmandaVT]

Well, I'd go one of two ways.

 

1. He wouldn't drive.  Can't be responsible, don't get the privilege.  Demonstrate responsibility and earn driving time back.

 

2. He wouldn't drive because he'd be paying for his own insurance.  I'm not carrying the financial responsibility of his bad choices.  Pay, or don't drive.

 

I agree. Although, if he's keeping up with the traffic and driving 5 mph over when everyone else is going 5-10mph over, I wouldn't worry about it. If he's going 50 in a 25, that's consequence worthy.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree, how much over is he going?

 

Does he respond better to positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement?  Some kids do better if there is a positive goal to shoot for rather than a punishment for bad choices after the fact.   Maybe as suggested up thread he would do better if you offered some sort of reward for remembering to follow the speed limit each month?

 

Otherwise, I would issue a ticket, charging whatever the going rate is in your area for speeding.   After three tickets he loses his right to drive for at least a couple of weeks or more.

[Scarlett]

He drives on a turnpike to school where the speed limit is 75.  This morning he was logged going 84.  Now granted that may have been for 2 seconds, but with me telling him to watch it constantly, and it pouring rain, and him driving my car today that he isn't used to...just totally unacceptable. 

 

So he stops by my work and we have a conversation about going 84.  He apologizes and leaves within minutes is logged 72 in a 65.  He isn't arrogant.....but I can't seem to get his attention.  Thus the consequence.

 

His Dad pays his insurance.  And if it goes up from a ticket (he got one this summer but so far insurance hasn't gone up) he will have to pay the increase.  

 

I can't take his keys completely.  I mean I could, but like Cat says I would be the one actually punished because he drives 35 minutes each way to school and he takes dss too.  But I can say he can't drive anywhere besides work/school.  And dinner with his dad.  So I think it is going to be that through the weekend.  

 

And I like the idea of positive reinforcement along with it.  I will give him a little gift for every week he stays in line.  Because I well remember how difficult it is to stay under the speed limit.  Well, it still is for me, and he sees my speed, which is not always perfect....but I need him to be better than me.  ;/

 

 

 

[chiguirre]

Can you drive his route? Is everyone going over the speed limit too? I wouldn't punish him if he's just following the traffic. If he is speeding more than everyone else, I like the idea of fining him.

[Scarlett]

So he can't drive for fun through Sunday.  And he will be fined the going rate after that and also lose fun driving privilege for a week everytime he goes over.  

 

I do feel bad though because that app logs the speed whether it is for 2 seconds or 2 hours.  

[Scarlett]

Can you drive his route? Is everyone going over the speed limit too? I wouldn't punish him if he's just following the traffic. If he is speeding more than everyone else, I like the idea of fining him.

 

 

Well, it is the turnpike....75 MPH.  That is just fast enough.  

[Catwoman]

So he can't drive for fun through Sunday. And he will be fined the going rate after that and also lose fun driving privilege for a week everytime he goes over.

 

I do feel bad though because that app logs the speed whether it is for 2 seconds or 2 hours.

Totally unrelated to the topic, but why did you change your username?

 

The new one doesn't have the same ring to it.

[JustEm]

Those speeds are within reasonable for me so I would not punish at all if this was my kid.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Is he going with the flow of traffic? An acquaintance who is a highway patrol officer told me he'd rather see people keep up with ten miles over the limit, if that's what's happening during rush hour on the parkway, than to see somebody rear ended, or causing people to fling around him, trying to do the posted speed limit in that scenario.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

So he can't drive for fun through Sunday. And he will be fined the going rate after that and also lose fun driving privilege for a week everytime he goes over.

 

I do feel bad though because that app logs the speed whether it is for 2 seconds or 2 hours.

 

Hold on...speeding up to pass can be legal...I'm getting suspicious of that app. He might be fine.

[chiguirre]

Well, it is the turnpike....75 MPH.  That is just fast enough.  

 

That depends on the road. That would have people riding your tail and passing you dangerously on some Houston highways where the speed limit is 65. I routinely go 80 on some roads and I have never gotten a ticket (in 30 years of driving).

[Scarlett]

Totally unrelated to the topic, but why did you change your username?

 

The new one doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

 

Someone I know might possibly be on the boards looking at something specific....and they might recognize that user name.....not a huge deal, but I talk a lot on this board!  I will change it back later.

[Scarlett]

Is he going with the flow of traffic? An acquaintance who is a highway patrol officer told me he'd rather see people keep up with ten miles over the limit, if that's what's happening during rush hour on the parkway, than to see somebody rear ended, or causing people to fling around him, trying to do the posted speed limit in that scenario.

 

 

Well, there is something to this, and I think he is a good driver, but I don't know.  I feel like he has to watch it better than he is.  

 

You guys don't think 84 in a 75 is bad?  In a Prius? Oh wait he was in my car, but usually a Prius.  And it was raining.

[Catwoman]

Well, there is something to this, and I think he is a good driver, but I don't know. I feel like he has to watch it better than he is.

 

You guys don't think 84 in a 75 is bad? In a Prius? Oh wait he was in my car, but usually a Prius. And it was raining.

84 is way too fast -- and it's ridiculously fast on a wet road, and if you couple that with the fact that he's still a relatively new driver, I can absolutely understand why you're upset.

[Catwoman]

Someone I know might possibly be on the boards looking at something specific....and they might recognize that user name.....not a huge deal, but I talk a lot on this board! I will change it back later.

Oh, ok! I was worried that something might be wrong. If you want me to delete my question about it, just let me know and I'll do it right away.

[hornblower]

wait what - you guys are allowed to go 75 mph ?? Whoa. 

I don't think you can go over 100 kph (~62mph) anywhere in the metropolitan area here (& that's only on the portion of the trans canada freeway that runs through) 

that's crazy speed.....

[regentrude]

Someone I know might possibly be on the boards looking at something specific....and they might recognize that user name.....not a huge deal, but I talk a lot on this board!  I will change it back later.

 

be aware that any post of yours you ever edited will list you old name in the "edited by..."

[Corraleno]

When the tracker records the highest speeds, are they generally for very short times and then drop back down? Like I could imagine being on the turnpike where the speed limit is 75, but most traffic is actually going 80, and I might get up to 84 for a few seconds to merge, pass, or change lanes or something. So I would treat that sort of scenario differently than someone who was driving 84 in a 75 zone for 20 minutes straight.

 

I'd be more concerned about speeding on roads that were poorly lit or had lots of winding curves or side streets, or other issues like that. If you know his route well, you can probably tell from the timestamp where he was on the route when the speed went over the limit. So I would be inclined to base any punishment more on how unsafe I thought his actions were, versus just the amount over the limit he was. So for example 10 miles over on a winding, unlit residential street in the pouring rain would deserve a serious consequence, but a 5-second burst of speed that may only have been 3-4 mph over the general traffic speed would just get a warning.

[Moonhawk]

Well, there is something to this, and I think he is a good driver, but I don't know.  I feel like he has to watch it better than he is.  

 

You guys don't think 84 in a 75 is bad?  In a Prius? Oh wait he was in my car, but usually a Prius.  And it was raining.

 

 84 in a 75 is bad to me, sorry. I think that is 1 mph under felony where I am ? Can't check now but pretty sure thats the case. Raining makes it worse because more variables that make driving harder, and he doesn't have the experience to now how to handle the possibilites as well. 

 

I allow for myself up to 4 over the speed limit in certain circumstances, but speed limit is the ideal. Speeding tickets aren't given for under 5 over (at least in my area), so if this was followed his legal negative consequences at least are avoided.

 

I like the suggestion of imposed speeding tickets. You can always positive-reinforce with that money back to him, so it's a self-funding learning system :)

[Bambam]

Consequence for one of mine would be you don't get to use my automobiles again for a LONG time. Don't care. You can take the school bus to school. You can take public transportation to wherever. You can figure it out. You had a nice setup, and you blew it. Deal with it - at 17.5, you should have the skills and ability to do so.

 

If the car is his own, well, I'd make sure that vehicle was not titled in my name. And I wouldn't pay insurance either.

 

There was an auto accident in our local area. 19 year was driving 109 two seconds before the collision - air bags deployed. (according to the police who pulled the electronics of his car - not sure why they keep saying 2 seconds before - maybe it doesn't record every second?) . His 17 year old sister was killed. His 17 year fiancee was killed. The other driver is still in bad shape. Just no. 

[Scarlett]

Oh, ok! I was worried that something might be wrong. If you want me to delete my question about it, just let me know and I'll do it right away.

 

 

Nah.  It isn't a critical deal.

[Scarlett]

When the tracker records the highest speeds, are they generally for very short times and then drop back down? Like I could imagine being on the turnpike where the speed limit is 75, but most traffic is actually going 80, and I might get up to 84 for a few seconds to merge, pass, or change lanes or something. So I would treat that sort of scenario differently than someone who was driving 84 in a 75 zone for 20 minutes straight.

 

I'd be more concerned about speeding on roads that were poorly lit or had lots of winding curves or side streets, or other issues like that. If you know his route well, you can probably tell from the timestamp where he was on the route when the speed went over the limit. So I would be inclined to base any punishment more on how unsafe I thought his actions were, versus just the amount over the limit he was. So for example 10 miles over on a winding, unlit residential street in the pouring rain would deserve a serious consequence, but a 5-second burst of speed that may only have been 3-4 mph over the general traffic speed would just get a warning.

 

 

That is the thing...the ap doesn't tell me for how long he was going 84.

[Paige]

I'd want him to keep it within 7mph of the speed limit. I know you will get a ticket for 10+, 5+ is hard to stick to, so 7 or 8 is my target. I think it will be easier for him to comply if he's given a little leeway. I'm not sure if I'd put a consequence out yet if I hadn't warned him and told him in advance what it would be.

[Scarlett]

Consequence for one of mine would be you don't get to use my automobiles again for a LONG time. Don't care. You can take the school bus to school. You can take public transportation to wherever. You can figure it out. You had a nice setup, and you blew it. Deal with it - at 17.5, you should have the skills and ability to do so.

 

If the car is his own, well, I'd make sure that vehicle was not titled in my name. And I wouldn't pay insurance either.

 

There was an auto accident in our local area. 19 year was driving 109 two seconds before the collision - air bags deployed. (according to the police who pulled the electronics of his car - not sure why they keep saying 2 seconds before - maybe it doesn't record every second?) . His 17 year old sister was killed. His 17 year fiancee was killed. The other driver is still in bad shape. Just no. 

 

 

Well, the car is in his dad's name, but I definitely am in control of it.  His dad backs me on that.

 

He absolutely cannot take the bus or public transportation.  There just isn't any.  

 

If it was just possible speeding tickets I'd say let natural consequences handle it....but the fact is people die when that kind of excessive speeding goes on.  I mean, the 72 in a 65 is almost understandable....but the 84 in 75 is not.  

[Moonhawk]

Oh I should mention a reason for my strong reaction: we had a 2 year period where 9 teens were killed in car accidents in our town. I can still name each kid because we have road signs and memorials up to them. Our police officers come down hard on teenage drivers now, the unofficial "first time warning" policy with teenagers here has been done away with (I benefitted as a kid, but my friends' kids have all gotten tickets for their first pullover offense, no matter the amount over). 

[eternalsummer]

Where can you possibly live where going 10 mph over the speed limit is a felony?

 

I'm calling shenanigans, I seriously seriously doubt that is possible.

 

 

84 in a 75 to pass is perfectly reasonable; it doesn't matter what kind of car he is driving.  Furthermore, in some situations, the person going 75 in a 75 is making the more dangerous decision because the going rate on that road, for whatever reason, is 80+, and people have to keep passing the slow driver (passing is a lot more dangerous than everyone just staying in their own lane).

[eternalsummer]

109 is too fast.

 

Saying that because someone died after driving 109 means that no one should go over the posted speed limit ever is kind of silly.

[Moonhawk]

Where can you possibly live where going 10 mph over the speed limit is a felony?

 

I'm calling shenanigans, I seriously seriously doubt that is possible.

 

 

84 in a 75 to pass is perfectly reasonable; it doesn't matter what kind of car he is driving.  Furthermore, in some situations, the person going 75 in a 75 is making the more dangerous decision because the going rate on that road, for whatever reason, is 80+, and people have to keep passing the slow driver (passing is a lot more dangerous than everyone just staying in their own lane).

 

AZ, 85 is a felony on highways, according to the highway patrol officer who kindly pulled me over at 84 mph. Maybe he was trying to scare me? Was let off with a warning. I live in a more rural area and a long stretch of 75 around me. Yes, people go 80+, but I stick to my happy 75 now (79 if I need to pass). I keep to the right if I'm the slow car of the day, but often am not, and have never caused a traffic jam where people need to make dangerous manuevers to avoid, lol.

[eternalsummer]

85+ in AZ is a misdemeanor.  

[Moonhawk]

85+ in AZ is a misdemeanor.  

Good to know! So he was scaring me I guess.  I'll stick to 75 tho :)

[eternalsummer]

Well, it is a worse thing than a traffic ticket (or 85mph anywhere else I've ever been).  It's a criminal charge and evidently stays on your record unless you take defensive driving school (which is probably a ridiculous extra moneymaker).

[Paige]

We saw road signs on our last trip saying "85mph is automatically reckless driving." (or something like that) I don't remember the state, but I'd never seen signs like that before. 

[Rosie_0801]

Well, it is a worse thing than a traffic ticket (or 85mph anywhere else I've ever been).  It's a criminal charge and evidently stays on your record unless you take defensive driving school (which is probably a ridiculous extra moneymaker).

 

I wouldn't assume a defensive driver course was merely a ridiculous extra money maker. The one I did when I was younger was good and I think everyone should have to do one to transfer from a probationary to full license.

[Ailaena]

Driving less than 10mph over on a highway is not a big deal to me, especially when considering flow of traffic, BUT driving too fast for conditions is a huge deal.

 

Just last week during mild rain I watched a girl pass us around a curve, lose control, and flip her car. I got out to help and she was totally fine, but literally had no idea she was going too fast. She was like, "I wasn't even going the speed limit!"

 

Of course, I Had to immediately call dd and remind her to slow down during the rain and she thought I was nuts, but whatever .p

[Annie G]

I think you're on the right track to take away his ability to drive to fun things, because if he loves to go out and have fun, it sounds like that's the currency you want to use to hit him where it hurts. But what happens if he goes ahead and speeds while his driving is restricted? Do you extend the restriction or implement other consequences? 

 

I applaud you for trying to handle this now instead of waiting for him to get a ticket or have an accident. At those speeds an accident could cause some real damage to property and lives so being proactive is a great idea. 

 

It doesn't matter if he was speeding for 2 seconds- it took him longer than 2 seconds to go from a safe speed to over the speed limit.  And a police officer doesn't care how long a driver was speeding...it could still cost him a ticket or cause an accident. 

 

 

[SKL]

Well I agree that 84 is fast even though it isn't 10+ in a 75.  Also the road condition is a factor.

 

Not sure I would fine for that, but I would talk to him about why 84 in a 75 is a lot different from 34 in a 25.  I mean if something goes wrong (e.g. some other idiot drives crazy, loses a tire, a kid or a deer does the unexpected), you are a lot more likely to total your car, or die, or kill someone.  At that point it doesn't matter that you were only going 9+.

 

I would also tell him that he will save money by going slower.  Gas mileage for one thing is a lot worse at 84 (the ideal is closer to 55-60 from what I've heard).

 

So perhaps practical reasons rather than threats would influence his behavior.

 

As for the arguments against going at or below the speed limit - maybe it depends on your location, but that doesn't sway me.  I normally drive at or below the speed limit and stick to the slow lane.  Normally nobody cares - anyone who is in a hurry is in the fast lane and/or passing repeatedly.  What do they care if I'm minding my own business in the slow lane?  The exception would be if there was some reason other people could not safely pass.

[kiwik]

wait what - you guys are allowed to go 75 mph ?? Whoa.

 

I don't think you can go over 100 kph (~62mph) anywhere in the metropolitan area here (& that's only on the portion of the trans canada freeway that runs through)

 

that's crazy speed.....

Yeah there isn't a road in NZ where the speed limit is more than 100 km/h. Mind you our motorways are mostly windy 2 lane roads. Is there another way, however inconvenient he can get where he wants to go? 3 hours on a bus every day may help him concentration. I had a friend whose car beeped continuously when it went over a set limit - can you get something like that?