I just hate the public school

[Janeway]

Seriously. I contacted them about what to do to enroll my child for next year. They got so nasty with me. Then, they said they would get back with me. And in the end, they said that the principal will not allow him to enroll at his school.

 

UMMM..not legal!!! And I told them I did not need his permission and if I CHOOSE to enroll my child, I will. And that the law requires them to educate my child. DUH!!!

 

And then I called the superintendents office.

 

But really, this all just reminds me of how much I hate them. Our local district is what is called "campus run." SO..the federal government does not run the schools, the state government does. And the state (in Texas) operates on a district run model. And THIS district operates on a campus run model. So principals are gods here. You get a good one, you are good. You get a bad one, you are not. 

 

I know I could fight this and that principal is out of compliance with the law. But this ticks me off. And while I feel like fighting, because they just tick me off, I also realize I will be dealing with these people for the next year and already have a lot of choice things to say to them about this and I am thinking 8th grade will not work out with them. 

 

Now I remember why I wanted us to move.....

 

PS don't tell me what my rights are or to get a lawyer. I already know this. The point is, I do not think I even want my children going there. I am ticked!

Edited March 7, 2017 by Janeway

[DawnM]

Wait, why don't they want to let you enroll your child?

I am confused.

[maize]

The principal will not allow him to enroll for 8th grade? Um, yeah, that does sound rather egregious...

Edited March 7, 2017 by maize

[Farrar]

Some districts have things like magnet schools and other special schools that close enrollment after a period and then you're stuck with fewer options - perhaps to attend a school that's not as nearby... is that maybe the case here? I also don't get how they could deny a child entry...

[Janeway]

Wait, why don't they want to let you enroll your child?

I am confused.

Because they are jerks? Because they take issue with home schoolers? Because I filed a legal complaint against the district in the past for being out of compliance on an IEP back when I had an older child enrolled? Does it really matter...people like this are not fit to educate children.

[Janeway]

Some districts have things like magnet schools and other special schools that close enrollment after a period and then you're stuck with fewer options - perhaps to attend a school that's not as nearby... is that maybe the case here? I also don't get how they could deny a child entry...

 It is not a magnet school. It is the one next to our house..or down the street anyway. It is the one we are zoned for.

 

And they cannot. The principal is spouting off something he has no legal right to. I dealt with this particular principal before because he used to be at the school my other children are currently at. He was awful then too. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Janeway

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes, it's this kind of thing that I always think of when I hear about people getting denied care under their government run medical, or getting denied special needs spots in their government schools, or getting denied any one of a plethora of things that the government by law has to provide.  It's one thing to 'fight the system' when you have options.  It's quite another to do so when you are working two jobs and your kid HAS TO go to public school, or when you're entering the system on a stretcher.  Ugh.

[regentrude]

They cannot refuse to educate your child. you can simply enroll him.

 

But I don't understand this:

 

Our local district is what is called "campus run." SO..the federal government does not run the schools, the state government does. And the state (in Texas) operates on a district run model. And THIS district operates on a campus run model. So principals are gods here. 

 

The federal government never runs the public schools, since education is a matter for the state. (And states typically have districts whose decisions are not uniform across the state)

 

I am surprised your principal is personally involved in enrolling children. Normally that's a task for the school secretary; principals don't handle these minutiae. What happens if you show up at the school office and fill out paperwork? What is there even to ask?

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by regentrude

[Paige]

Maybe if you complain or go above his head he won't be the principal you have to deal with next year. 

[City Mouse]

You are absolutely correct. They have to let your child enroll. The only exception I can think of is that in some places if the specific campus is full they may require the student to attend a different campus.

 

But I also agree with you the idea that if they are being such jerks about the enrollment that it may not be worth it toyou to force the issue. It really depends on your situation and how badly you need him to attend the school.

[Catwoman]

It seems like you have been very angry lately, Janeway.

 

I hope things start going better for you soon. :grouphug:

 

 

(Edited for typos -- I can't even type two sentences correctly! :svengo:)

Edited March 7, 2017 by Catwoman

[DawnM]

Because they are jerks? Because they take issue with home schoolers? Because I filed a legal complaint against the district in the past for being out of compliance on an IEP back when I had an older child enrolled? Does it really matter...people like this are not fit to educate children.

 

 

It does matter, because if they aren't allowed to refuse your child, it makes no sense as to how they can refuse/deny your child into the school.

 

It doesn't make sense to me.  Even if the local school can't stand me, they have to put up with me.  They are my zoned school.

 

they can't just be jerks and deny your child entrance.  That isn't how it works.

[Catwoman]

It does matter, because if they aren't allowed to refuse your child, it makes no sense as to how they can refuse/deny your child into the school.

 

It doesn't make sense to me. Even if the local school can't stand me, they have to put up with me. They are my zoned school.

 

they can't just be jerks and deny your child entrance. That isn't how it works.

:iagree:

 

Something seems very wrong here.

 

Janeway, is there more to the story that you haven't told us, that might help us make sense of this?

[MomatHWTK]

I agree, at some point, unless you have no other option you just don't want those people to educate your child. Isn't TX kind of notorious for trying to get kids out of the school system if they have any kind of need for an IEP, etc? I thought I read some articles on the topic recently. 

[MomatHWTK]

I think she already explained that they can't, in fact, refuse to enroll a child. It sounds like the principal is just giving her a hard time because he thinks he can. 

[Catwoman]

I think she already explained that they can't, in fact, refuse to enroll a child. It sounds like the principal is just giving her a hard time because he thinks he can.

It just seems odd that an experienced principal would not know that, and Janeway said she also dealt with him at another school, so it sounds like he has been around for a while.

 

There has to be more to the story.

[MomatHWTK]

Related:

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/01/19/advocates-pushing-increase-quality-not-just-number/

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/02/16/feds-to-check-special-education-at_ap.html

 

Yeah, some districts are getting federal attention because of student enrollment issue. 

[HomeAgain]

I think she already explained that they can't, in fact, refuse to enroll a child. It sounds like the principal is just giving her a hard time because he thinks he can. 

 

The story doesn't make sense.  It's hard to believe that a principal says "no, he can't be enrolled here." and have that be it to the story.

 

When I went to sign my kid up for school, the first thing talked about were some of the issues he might face before enrollment, like having to take placement tests.  The principal actually looked scared when he started talking to me because he had been through a bit with other homeschoolers who wanted the transcript to be taken as-is (iffy in jr. high, not doable in high school) for credit.  He looked thoroughly relieved when I plopped our file on his desk with everything he needed to enroll my kid quickly and easily.

 

The thing is, though, we had a conversation.  We talked to each other.  We understood each other and potential setbacks were discussed.  It wasn't a weird "no" and end of story.  That doesn't make any sense, even here in Texas.

[Janeway]

The story doesn't make sense.  It's hard to believe that a principal says "no, he can't be enrolled here." and have that be it to the story.

 

When I went to sign my kid up for school, the first thing talked about were some of the issues he might face before enrollment, like having to take placement tests.  The principal actually looked scared when he started talking to me because he had been through a bit with other homeschoolers who wanted the transcript to be taken as-is (iffy in jr. high, not doable in high school) for credit.  He looked thoroughly relieved when I plopped our file on his desk with everything he needed to enroll my kid quickly and easily.

 

The thing is, though, we had a conversation.  We talked to each other.  We understood each other and potential setbacks were discussed.  It wasn't a weird "no" and end of story.  That doesn't make any sense, even here in Texas.

Yeah. I emailed him back and told him not. Here is a copy of what I emailed back...

 

 

I did not request to enroll my son yet. But I have children at XXXXX and when I enroll my children, they will simply be enrolled. I do not need your permission. I live here. The district has legal responsibilities to educate children in the district they are zoned. This is the law, not a choice for principals to reject any student where the principal happens to not like the parent.

 

I also left a message at the superintendents office over this. Just ticks me off.

[Janeway]

:iagree:

 

Something seems very wrong here.

 

Janeway, is there more to the story that you haven't told us, that might help us make sense of this?

Nope. That is it.   Of course it was at the end of the day. I did respond to him and I figure I can update tomorrow with his response to how I responded to him. And from the superintendents office. He has not responded yet to my email. I copied and pasted what I said in my email to him in previous post I just made.

[Catwoman]

Nope. That is it. Of course it was at the end of the day. I did respond to him and I figure I can update tomorrow with his response to how I responded to him. And from the superintendents office. He has not responded yet to my email. I copied and pasted what I said in my email to him in previous post I just made.

Good luck, Janeway. I hope everything works out for you. I can understand your frustration because this should be a simple process.

[Janeway]

It does matter, because if they aren't allowed to refuse your child, it makes no sense as to how they can refuse/deny your child into the school.

 

It doesn't make sense to me.  Even if the local school can't stand me, they have to put up with me.  They are my zoned school.

 

they can't just be jerks and deny your child entrance.  That isn't how it works.

Remember, he has not taken steps yet to legally prevent me. I simply inquired about enrolling him, I did not ask permission. And I was not given the information about enrollment but rather told my child would not be allowed to enroll.

 

Now I wonder if..we had an ARD meeting last year (my child still gets up to date testing with the district) and it was held at a different school. I did not think much of it, just figured that the staff needed, such as the diagnostician, was at the other school that day. Now I wonder if this might be the reason. This really chafes me.

[Catwoman]

Remember, he has not taken steps yet to legally prevent me. I simply inquired about enrolling him, I did not ask permission. And I was not given the information about enrollment but rather told my child would not be allowed to enroll.

 

Now I wonder if..we had an ARD meeting last year (my child still gets up to date testing with the district) and it was held at a different school. I did not think much of it, just figured that the staff needed, such as the diagnostician, was at the other school that day. Now I wonder if this might be the reason. This really chafes me.

What reason did he give you when he said your child would not be allowed to enroll?

[Janeway]

What reason did he give you when he said your child would not be allowed to enroll?

He didn't. And legally, there is no reason he can give. I looked up the law and he can only deny admission if my child has been convicted of a crime.  But of course, his real reason is pretty obvious. He is ticked that I filed a complaint against him in the past, or he just doesn't want a child with an IEP, or he has something against home schoolers. I would have to find out if anyone else has had trouble enrolling a home schooler at this school. But it does not matter. I am sure it is because I filed the complaint in the past. Which I am thinking makes his actions, IF he has actions (right now, it is just words) would be illegal. He cannot deny admission to any child based on the fact that the child's parent has filed a complaint against him, in the present or past.

 

And again, my issue is not if he can do this, as he cannot. My issue is with..would I want my child at a school like that? 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Janeway

[Bambam]

Wait, I thought your husband was looking for a new job somewhere? Is this you or am I confused? Are you sure you will still be in TX so as to make this all worth your time and aggravation? 

 

 

[Catwoman]

He didn't. And legally, there is no reason he can give. I looked up the law and he can only deny admission if my child has been convicted of a crime.

He just said your child couldn't enroll and hung up the phone?

[zoobie]

I agree, at some point, unless you have no other option you just don't want those people to educate your child. Isn't TX kind of notorious for trying to get kids out of the school system if they have any kind of need for an IEP, etc? I thought I read some articles on the topic recently. 

 

Yes, the feds are investigating multiple districts in Texas for capping special education enrollment and tons of other federal law violations. Well, they were. I'm guessing they're not going to be really interested in pursuing it now.

[Janeway]

Wait, I thought your husband was looking for a new job somewhere? Is this you or am I confused? Are you sure you will still be in TX so as to make this all worth your time and aggravation? 

 I do not think it is worth fighting with him just because he has reminded me why I started home schooling in the first place. 

 

But no..my husband is looking for a job, period. He is not simply looking for a job elsewhere. He is looking for a job, elsewhere or here. 

[Janeway]

He just said your child couldn't enroll and hung up the phone?

No, he emailed it. And that was it. 

 

I talked with Mr. XXX about your request to enroll your child at XXX and he said that you would have to contact him for approval, which he will not give. Let me

know if there is anything else I can help you with.

 

 

^^^^^^^^that is what the email said^^^^^^

 

I put XXX where ever names were. 

 

I did not even request to enroll him. I asked a question about enrolling for next year. Or more than one question, but I never requested to enroll him. I asked if it was done online (it is for incoming kinders) and what activities were available, such as band and orchestra and theater and such.

 

Sorry the forum is changing my print to small after I copy and paste. I am not sure why it is doing that. And not sure why it changed it back to regular size when I inserted text.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Janeway

[chiguirre]

 

Now I wonder if..we had an ARD meeting last year (my child still gets up to date testing with the district) and it was held at a different school. I did not think much of it, just figured that the staff needed, such as the diagnostician, was at the other school that day. Now I wonder if this might be the reason. This really chafes me.

 

That is a reasonable explanation. Your home campus may not have the program your child would be assigned to. Your ISD will provide transportation to the campus that does handle the special ed program your child would attend. For example, my ISD offers a Severe Communications Disorder room with teachers trained in ABA and speech therapists experienced in working with ASD students at several elementary schools. If your neighborhood school doesn't have the program, the ISD will bus your child to the nearest school that does.

[Janeway]

That is a reasonable explanation. Your home campus may not have the program your child would be assigned to. Your ISD will provide transportation to the campus that does handle the special ed program your child would attend. For example, my ISD offers a Severe Communications Disorder room with teachers trained in ABA and speech therapists experienced in working with ASD students at several elementary schools. If your neighborhood school doesn't have the program, the ISD will bus your child to the nearest school that does.

Nope. This particular child does not have an IEP. It is the other two that do. And even so, in both cases, both have current IEPs with the district that allow for them to stay at their home campus.

 

Nope. He has no legal reason he can maintain. I also kind of wonder if he had the other person at the school send me the email so he would have deniability of it. He had the school counselor send me the email.

[Lecka]

It sounds like it is not going to be his assigned school, but is a school where the principal can accept students.

 

Easily it could be a blanket policy that they don't accept 8th graders or know that there are not slots available for 8th grade.

 

Seeing the email -- it doesn't say the reason, but it doesn't seem out of line from just seeing the e-mail.

 

Edit: they could assume you know all the ins and outs and that you should be going through the district or through the school where he did testing.

 

I think you could respond by asking who you need to contact about enrollment next year.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Lecka

[Selkie]

Whoa, that is a pretty blunt email. I would be interested in hearing what his reason is for denying your child.

[Catwoman]

Whoa, that is a pretty blunt email. I would be interested in hearing what his reason is for denying your child.

Yes, it seems odd that the school would have put it in writing if they knew they couldn't deny Janeway's child the opportunity to enroll.

[momto3innc]

I will say (also in Texas) that if I went today and tried to enroll my kids at our neighborhood zoned school I would be denied for this fall. Open enrollment for zoned families is super early (December or January), then it opens to a lottery system for people not zoned in early February. THen it's full and you simply cannot get in. So families that move to the neighborhood in July are denied until the following year if there is room then. We can still enroll in this school district but at an overflow school.

[Janeway]

I will say (also in Texas) that if I went today and tried to enroll my kids at our neighborhood zoned school I would be denied for this fall. Open enrollment for zoned families is super early (December or January), then it opens to a lottery system for people not zoned in early February. THen it's full and you simply cannot get in. So families that move to the neighborhood in July are denied until the following year if there is room then. We can still enroll in this school district but at an overflow school.

We don't have open enrollment in our district. We have to go to our zoned school, unless they get special permission to go elsewhere.

[momto3innc]

Sorry open enrollment is not the word. Just your chance to sign up for your zoned school. You are not allowed to pick. If your zoned school is full they will assign you to an overflow.

There is a lottery system but it's a pretty small chance of getting in since the schools are already pretty full.

[Annie G]

We don't have open enrollment in our district. We have to go to our zoned school, unless they get special permission to go elsewhere.

 

Sounds like that email just granted you special permission to enroll in a different school...which might be a blessing since you and the principal do not get along. Perhaps at a different school you will have a better experience. 

[Janeway]

Sorry open enrollment is not the word. Just your chance to sign up for your zoned school. You are not allowed to pick. If your zoned school is full they will assign you to an overflow.

There is a lottery system but it's a pretty small chance of getting in since the schools are already pretty full.

We do not get to pick and they are not allowed to assign a different school. He is just being a jerk. That is all.

[Janeway]

I'm confused.. to you guys talk about overflow. I've either gone to school or taught at 4 different districts in Texas They were zoned. No such thing as filling up. If you live in the zone you go

Exactly. That is exactly how it is. So much so that the law even says that the district has to allow the child to go to the home campus. And they will bring in portables if they have too many students.

[Audrey]

That's an interesting predicament, and such interesting responses from the school.  I wonder if a "kill them with kindness" approach could get you a satisfactory outcome.  What if you just went over there, walked in with no announcement and filled out enrollment forms with a big 'ol bless-your-heart smile?  No explanations, no extraneous dialogue, just "I need to enroll my son [insert big 'ol bless-your-heart smile here]!" And, "thanks for helping me today [insert big 'ol bless-your-heart smile here]!" 

 

I get a lot of mileage and good stuff out of that approach.  You know... more flies with honey and all that!

[unsinkable]

"I talked with Mr. XXX about your request to enroll your child at XXX and he said that you would have to contact him for approval, which he will not give. Let me

know if there is anything else I can help you with."

 

This sounds so much like so many bureaucrats...

 

The *hey! Screw you!* line followed by the meaningless *let me if there's anything else* line.

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm confused.. to you guys talk about overflow. I've either gone to school or taught at 4 different districts in Texas They were zoned. No such thing as filling up. If you live in the zone you go

In Texas here. Locally if the school fills up then kids may end up bussed to another school. However there would be a clear explanation of why. That email response is pretty uninformative and pathetic.

 

I agree, though, that killing them with kindness might be effective if you do decide you need to enroll your child.

[HomeAgain]

In your shoes, I might be so kind as to forward that email to the local news team, along with a short blurb on y'all (live in district, etc) <_<

[historically accurate]

That's an interesting predicament, and such interesting responses from the school.  I wonder if a "kill them with kindness" approach could get you a satisfactory outcome.  What if you just went over there, walked in with no announcement and filled out enrollment forms with a big 'ol bless-your-heart smile?  No explanations, no extraneous dialogue, just "I need to enroll my son [insert big 'ol bless-your-heart smile here]!" And, "thanks for helping me today [insert big 'ol bless-your-heart smile here]!" 

 

I get a lot of mileage and good stuff out of that approach.  You know... more flies with honey and all that!

 

I think that would be my approach since legally they can't turn him away if he's standing right there:

 

"Oh, I'm here to enroll Li'l Johnny. What documents do I need to fill out? Oh, thanks so much. [while filling out forms] He's so looking forward to starting at XXX school! He can't wait to meet his classmates - his favorite class is math! So excited to be in nth grade this year! [hand back forms] Thanks so much - he'll be here on Monday!"

 

Perky but oblivious is the way I would play it. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by beckyjo

[OneStepAtATime]

Bussed where? There is only one school in our district.... In all the districts in in an hour and a half each way , each district has 1 school.

There are several elementary schools in our school district. The school district covers a large geographical region including more rural areas. If one school fills up then kids are sometimes bussed to the next closest school with available slots.

[Mergath]

Regardless of the school's reasons, if you're going to enroll your child you're going to have to let go of your rage at the school and the principal and try to find some common ground. Your son is going to know if you hate his school before he even starts going, and it's going to make it hard for him to have a good experience.

 

Whatever happened with the school before, let it go and give them a second chance once you get this sorted out and get your son enrolled. Do your best to think of them as an ally rather than the enemy.

[Butter]

Bussed where? There is only one school in our district.... In all the districts in in an hour and a half each way , each district has 1 school.

 

Kids would be bussed in our district in Texas if schools fill up, but it's a specific kids zoned for school x go to school y sort of thing.  Right now there is no overflow as far as I know since the new middle school opened a couple years ago.  We're in the largest school district in San Antonio and it has dozens of elementary school, quite a few middle schools, and like 7 high schools (plus magnets).  I can't imagine moving into a district and being told there are no spaces for the school you are zoned for because of a lottery system allowing school choice already filled it all up.  They allow school choice in our district, but there is always space for zoned kids (unless there are official overflow conditions outlined at the time).

[OneStepAtATime]

How does that work? Even when I lived in Klein and Arlington, the busses only went to the school. There was no bus dropping kids off in a different neighborhoods. How is that efficient? Plus her boy is 8 the grade, right? I was talking about high school.

We started homeschooling for middle school so I don't know about middle school or high school but some elementary schools here were way too full with just the districted kids. Like 35+ kids in the classroom. No lottery. Just too many kids. They ended up bussing late enrolled kids to other schools. They were taken to the school they were zoned for then transferred to a bus that took them to the other school.

[Audrey]

Amen. The attitude you have right now would turn me off as an administrator. It would make me look for loopholes to keep you out. You MUST change your attitude.

 

 

Or, at least, for the sake of the child in question, fake a sweeter attitude even if you don't really feel it.