Did anyone else watch 20/20 last night?

[mommyoffive]

Did anyone else watch 20/20 last night?

 

It was all about the working class and how they are struggling.  People working at McDonalds, cleaning bathrooms, Burger King.  

 

 

It was just so sad and eye opening. 

I think when you talk about putting min. wage at $15 an hour it is so abstract.  

 

But this really put a face on it for me. 

 

 

 

What is the answer to this issue in your  mind? 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Did anyone else watch 20/20 last night?

 

It was all about the working class and how they are struggling. People working at McDonalds, cleaning bathrooms, Burger King.

 

 

It was just so sad and eye opening.

I think when you talk about putting min. wage at $15 an hour it is so abstract.

 

But this really put a face on it for me.

 

 

 

What is the answer to this issue in your mind?

Nearly every fast food restaurant is moving toward online and automated ordering even in the restaurant. Our local grocery store (despite union protests) just took our several check-out lanes and added check-out machines. Even our local library has switched to check-out machines. I worry a raise in minimum wage will result in jobs being slashed. But, what good is a job that keeps you scrounging all your life?? I don't have an answer.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I didn't because my area (rural, Midwest) lives it everyday. Sadly, this is how we live folks.

Edited January 14, 2017 by joyofsix

[Farrar]

Nearly every fast food restaurant is moving toward online and automated ordering even in the restaurant. Our local grocery store (despite union protests) just took our several check-out lanes and added check-out machines. Even our local library has switched to check-out machines. I worry a raise in minimum wage will result in jobs being slashed. But, what good is a job that keeps you scrounging all your life?? I don't have an answer.

 

But then people get jobs maintaining the machines. Our libraries have the machines too, but it seems like no one lost their job - the checkout clerk is still there most of the time. There's no good answer though, I agree.

[Lady Florida.]

But then people get jobs maintaining the machines. Our libraries have the machines too, but it seems like no one lost their job - the checkout clerk is still there most of the time. There's no good answer though, I agree.

 

I was trying to find a link, but there was an NPR show recently where automation and jobs was discussed. Automation is going to happen and we can't stop it, just like our predecessors couldn't stop the horseless carriage. In the piece I listened to they said that automation and technology creates more jobs than it kills. Different jobs yes, but automation isn't the job killer it's made out to be.

 

I found several links to similar stories but none seemed like the one I heard. I was in the car when I was listening, so I don't even remember what show it was - it was just whatever happened to be on while I was driving. If anyone knows what show I'm talking about, feel free to link it.

[Carol in Cal.]

Automation may not kill jobs (debatable) but one thing it definitely does is move them around.

And sometimes 'around' means 'out of the country'.

 

Right now 'around' also often means 'to a much more expensive part of the country'.

 

I have a BIL who worked as a maintenance guy in factories for most of his life.  When the factories left the Midwest, one by one, he retrained as a computer specialist of some kind--got a Microsoft certification.  He has never been able to find a job that uses that.  In order to do so he'll have to move to a more urban area, but he can't afford to do that.  And so it goes.  We would let him stay with us to move the needle and get established, but there are all kinds of caveats on him moving that we have never been able to manage to sort out, and he really doesn't want to move anyway.  

[Soror]

Automation may not kill jobs (debatable) but one thing it definitely does is move them around.

And sometimes 'around' means 'out of the country'.

 

Right now 'around' also often means 'to a much more expensive part of the country'.

 

I have a BIL who worked as a maintenance guy in factories for most of his life.  When the factories left the Midwest, one by one, he retrained as a computer specialist of some kind--got a Microsoft certification.  He has never been able to find a job that uses that.  In order to do so he'll have to move to a more urban area, but he can't afford to do that.  And so it goes.  We would let him stay with us to move the needle and get established, but there are all kinds of caveats on him moving that we have never been able to manage to sort out, and he really doesn't want to move anyway.  

This has happened somewhat where dh works but has worked out in his favor thus far. He is no longer the one operating machines but the one programming and integrating robots at this point. He learned what others wouldn't or couldn't, going well beyond what he did at work and even training offered there(he studies 1000 pg. manuals for fun & researches problems until he figures them out, even when the official people they hired to do the job screw it up so each integration he plays a larger role). Neither of us are delusional enough to think he could never lose his job however, I think he has built his skills and has a work ethic to make it where he would be one of the last ones to go. I think he would do well to get one at other similar places if this plant entirely moved off but there are no guarantees. He's also exploring some different avenues of income this year, which seem promising and enjoyable. If nothing else in the case of a big loss of jobs it will have him already established in a job to bring in some money, if not quite as much as we really need. As it is this uncertainty is a big reason we paid off all our debt(house included).

 

Of course as people have already stated the technology and jobs are changing one way or the other. It is best to get on that track and train to where the jobs are going BUT of course in the shift it is going to be rough for awhile until education and training catches up. My husband does his job w/out a degree & makes as much or more than the engineers there(he often does their job as it is). We will be advising our son who is interested in a similar track to make sure he does have a degree as the days of being able to work up w/out a degree are ending(and have ended in many/most places).

Edited January 14, 2017 by soror

[PollyOR]

I didn't watch it yet, but I'm very interested.

 

My 18yo dd has been working as a nursing assistant for the past few months.  For background, her grandfather was a professor at the local university and her dad is currently building 3-D printers.  We aren't nearly as financially secure as the grandparents, but DH does well enough that I can stay home and homeschool. 

 

Working at a nursing home/care facility has opened 18yo's eyes to how hard people have to work just to survive.   She is working with folks who are driving 30-45 miles just to work at a job which pays $13/hr.  Is it even enough to cover gas/car payment/insurance/wear and tear on the vehicle which they are using to get to work?  DD was honestly disappointed by how small her first check was after taxes.  

 

I realize that higher education isn't a guarantee, but I hope watching her older co-workers barely scraping by will motivate DD to continue her education.

 

 

Editing to add:

About higher education not being a guarantee - My siblings did not attend college and both do well financially.  My sister(high school diploma) is on equal footing with us and my brother (GED) makes almost twice as much.  One of my family members is a lawyer and under crushing debt due to student loans.  

 

I don't know what the answer is.

Edited January 14, 2017 by PollyOR

[Guest]

Automation may not kill jobs (debatable) but one thing it definitely does is move them around.

And sometimes 'around' means 'out of the country'.

 

Right now 'around' also often means 'to a much more expensive part of the country'.

 

I have a BIL who worked as a maintenance guy in factories for most of his life. When the factories left the Midwest, one by one, he retrained as a computer specialist of some kind--got a Microsoft certification. He has never been able to find a job that uses that. In order to do so he'll have to move to a more urban area, but he can't afford to do that. And so it goes. We would let him stay with us to move the needle and get established, but there are all kinds of caveats on him moving that we have never been able to manage to sort out, and he really doesn't want to move anyway.

And, let's be honest. The sweet 70yo cashier is not able to move to machine maintenance.

[Bluegoat]

About this moving jobs rather than eliminating - I do think sometimes this can be positive - with very nasty or unpleasent jobs, for example.  And sometimes the jobs may be more high-paying, though that often means they won't be suitable for the same kinds of people.

 

OTOH - if you really aren't eliminating jobs in the economy, there shouldn't be a money savings.  If a supermarket eliminates one cashier, and that means the equivalent of one job programming, building, or maintaining the self-check machine, isn't the supermarket still paying for that? 

 

I really like Wendell Berry's checklist for considering the advantage of changing to a newer technology - it's meant for personal use, but a lot of it is also applicable to a society-wide question:

 

 

1. The new tool should be cheaper than the one it replaces.
2. It should be at least as small in scale as the one it replaces.
3. It should do work that is clearly and demonstrably better than the one it replaces.
4. It should use less energy than the one it replaces.
5. If possible, it should use some form of solar energy, such as that of the body.
6. It should be repairable by a person of ordinary intelligence, provided that he or she has the necessary tools.
7. It should be purchasable and repairable as near to home as possible.
8. It should come from a small, privately owned shop or store that will take it back for maintenance and repair.
9. It should not replace or disrupt anything good that already exists, and this includes family and community relationships.

 

More generally though, with the working class - I think a major issue is about the possibility of stability.  Not just more money, but reliable income and benefits. Not having those things only benefits a very small class of people, too, so it isn't hard to follow the money there.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Bluegoat

[TranquilMind]

Did anyone else watch 20/20 last night?

 

It was all about the working class and how they are struggling.  People working at McDonalds, cleaning bathrooms, Burger King.  

 

 

It was just so sad and eye opening. 

I think when you talk about putting min. wage at $15 an hour it is so abstract.  

 

But this really put a face on it for me. 

 

 

 

What is the answer to this issue in your  mind? 

I watched it.  It was really eye-opening and terribly sad.  Goodness, that young man living in a storage room, yet still in faith, sure it will all work out if he just keeps working hard.  If I'm not mistaken, he did get to go to the White House.  I hope something great came of that for him. 

 

I was angry for that woman who worked cleaning bathrooms for Visa for 25 years - and she gets a $25 gift card from Visa?? They can't do better than that for her?  I'm not even an employer, but someone who regularly hires independent contractors and I give them better gifts than that for a single excellent job! 

[Arcadia]

Did anyone else watch 20/20 last night?

 

I think when you talk about putting min. wage at $15 an hour it is so abstract.

I didn't watch. I am reading the about it on the show's webpage http://abcnews.go.com/US/deepdive/diane-sawyer-income-inequality-my-reality-hidden-america-44770807?cid=clicksource_359_null_dp_hed

 

This quoted below is so wrong (the unpaid waiting around part) for the drivers. The bus drivers back home could earn extra income during the day hours. So they drop off the workers, do whatever other job they have or go home and rest, then pick up the workers in the evening; they usually can earn two pay checks this way.

 

"Some drivers are contracted to work what’s called a “split shift,†meaning they arrive for work at 6 a.m. to take tech employees to their offices, then have to wait around for a number of hours, unpaid, until it’s time to take the employees back home at the end of the day. These drivers work and are paid for a total of eight hours but over a 16-hour period." http://abcnews.go.com/US/bus-drivers-working-alongside-silicon-valley-millionaires-struggle/story?id=44707434

 

$15/hr in urban cities are quite common, but with retail losing to online sales not sure how many retail jobs will be even around regardless of what the minimum wage is.

 

"Under union pressures and publicity about drivers receiving few benefits, Facebook now requires contractors to pay contract employees a minimum of $15 an hour, 15 days of paid time off, and a $4,000 stipend for new parents if their contractors don’t provide parental leave. Apple and Google followed suit with announcing 25 percent wage increases for all drivers." http://abcnews.go.com/US/bus-drivers-working-alongside-silicon-valley-millionaires-struggle/story?id=44707434

[TranquilMind]

I didn't watch it yet, but I'm very interested.

 

My 18yo dd has been working as a nursing assistant for the past few months.  For background, her grandfather was a professor at the local university and her dad is currently building 3-D printers.  We aren't nearly as financially secure as the grandparents, but DH does well enough that I can stay home and homeschool. 

 

Working at a nursing home/care facility has opened 18yo's eyes to how hard people have to work just to survive.   She is working with folks who are driving 30-45 miles just to work at a job which pays $13/hr.  Is it even enough to cover gas/car payment/insurance/wear and tear on the vehicle which they are using to get to work?  DD was honestly disappointed by how small her first check was after taxes.  

 

I realize that higher education isn't a guarantee, but I hope watching her older co-workers barely scraping by will motivate DD to continue her education.

 

 

Editing to add:

About higher education not being a guarantee - My siblings did not attend college and both do well financially.  My sister(high school diploma) is on equal footing with us and my brother (GED) makes almost twice as much.  One of my family members is a lawyer and under crushing debt due to student loans.  

 

I don't know what the answer is.

I read just yesterday that Millenials are better educated but make less money starting out than their elders.  That's really sad. 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/13/millennials-falling-behind-boomer-parents/96530338/

[mommyoffive]

I watched it.  It was really eye-opening and terribly sad.  Goodness, that young man living in a storage room, yet still in faith, sure it will all work out if he just keeps working hard.  If I'm not mistaken, he did get to go to the White House.  I hope something great came of that for him. 

 

I was angry for that woman who worked cleaning bathrooms for Visa for 25 years - and she gets a $25 gift card from Visa?? They can't do better than that for her?  I'm not even an employer, but someone who regularly hires independent contractors and I give them better gifts than that for a single excellent job! 

 

I know that storage shed.  My gosh.  I can't remember if it was the same guy or different one. 

You shouldn't be living like that when you are working.  

 

A living wage.

 

 

 

I know.  $25!  WTF?

It made so many of those companies seem so bad the way they treat people.

 

I am not an employer either, but I try tip people are my service providers who I know don't make much.

[Guest]

I thought it left out a lot of analysis on the briefly mentioned role of govt., for example zoning boards. Totally left training out of the equation....govt has devastated K12 schools by shifting funding to the point that there is no votech and in many cases, no real college prep....military can't train everyone.

 

The fella working at stanford wasn't a sad sack story here...that kind of commute is short ...most of my neighbors have to have a car to get to the train station and its another ninety miles in to NYC, then whatever on the subway/bus. They are happy to be able to still work in the city as they have better wages and bennies than they could find outside the city, plus no education debt at all And their homes have grass in the yards.

[TranquilMind]

I know that storage shed.  My gosh.  I can't remember if it was the same guy or different one. 

You shouldn't be living like that when you are working.  

 

A living wage.

 

 

 

I know.  $25!  WTF?

It made so many of those companies seem so bad the way they treat people.

 

I am not an employer either, but I try tip people are my service providers who I know don't make much.

It was so horrible.  Did you see Diane Sawyer's face?  I'd have whipped out my wallet right then and taken him to a hotel (and maybe she did, off camera). 

 

Yeah, that $25 dollar gift card made me angry! 

And the college instructors, 25% of whom needed public assistance...what???

Edited January 14, 2017 by TranquilMind

[mommyoffive]

It was so horrible.  Did you see Diane Sawyer's face?  I'd have whipped out my wallet right then and taken him to a hotel (and maybe she did, off camera). 

 

Yeah, that $25 dollar gift card made me angry! 

And the college instructors, 25% of whom needed public assistance...what???

Yes the college instructors?  That is just disgusting how much they charge and then how much they are paying them.

 

Yes I would have helped him right then. I could not have left him like that. 

[Guest]

Adjuncts are usually moonlighters here. They have full time jobs with bennies if not retired on pension w/retiree medical.

Fast food here is senior citizens suplementing pension plus ss...they have health care via employer that is providing pension.

[TranquilMind]

Yes the college instructors?  That is just disgusting how much they charge and then how much they are paying them.

 

Yes I would have helped him right then. I could not have left him like that. 

Amen.

[purplejackmama]

Yes the college instructors? That is just disgusting how much they charge and then how much they are paying them.

 

Yes I would have helped him right then. I could not have left him like that.

Disclosure: I didn't see the story last night.

 

But I'm curious where DOES all the college money go? Any ideas?

[DragonFaerie]

I'm an adjunct instructor, and I don't see how anyone can do this job in addition to a full-time job.  My time is not just spent in the classroom for 3 hours per week.  I also have to prepare my lessons, grade student papers, answer student emails, and participate in online student engagement in many cases (posting course announcements, discussions boards, etc.).  I suppose it would be possible to teach one class as a moonlight gig, but not much more than that, especially not while raising kids as a single parent.  To make a living, I work for three different schools (I live too far away from any of them to make full time a desirable option) and teach six to eight courses per term.  I also have to make enough during the traditional school year to sustain us through the summer because adjuncts don't usually get offered any summer classes to teach.  The full-time faculty who want them get first dibs on those.  But, I'm not really complaining as this is all my choice.  Sure, I'd love to make more money, have insurance and benefits, etc. But I also love that my time is largely my own. I control my own schedule, get to work from home most of the time, and don't have many of the extra demands that full-time faculty have.  It's a trade off to be sure. 

[frugalmamatx]

Disclosure: I didn't see the story last night.

 

But I'm curious where DOES all the college money go? Any ideas?

 

I worked in a college for the VP of finance. It goes to admininstrators. Buildings. A lot of ours went to sports. New student promotion. etc. 

[frugalmamatx]

The big thing I have against automation is that overall it DOES reduce jobs. When Walmart replaces 8 checkouts with self-scan, that's 8 cashiers not hired {potentially more because of shifts}. It will take MAYBE one person to maintain those self-scan machines. Possibly even one person over a couple stores. That means 7 {or more} people without jobs. 

 

And here Min wage is like $8/hr. $10/hr is good money, and $15 is unheard of. Surviving means 2-3 jobs {all PT} or lowering expenses by staying with family etc. 

[Reefgazer]

Administration (mostly) and elaborate, non-educational structures such as a pool, café, child care center, or specialty centers (like a women's center).

Disclosure: I didn't see the story last night.

But I'm curious where DOES all the college money go? Any ideas?

 

[MotherGoose]

I worked in a college for the VP of finance. It goes to admininstrators. Buildings. A lot of ours went to sports. New student promotion. etc.

All the emphasis on sports really annoys me. I do think it's a huge money taker. I have no statistics to back this up.

[Lady Marmalade]

The big thing I have against automation is that overall it DOES reduce jobs. When Walmart replaces 8 checkouts with self-scan, that's 8 cashiers not hired {potentially more because of shifts}. It will take MAYBE one person to maintain those self-scan machines. Possibly even one person over a couple stores. That means 7 {or more} people without jobs. 

 

And here Min wage is like $8/hr. $10/hr is good money, and $15 is unheard of. Surviving means 2-3 jobs {all PT} or lowering expenses by staying with family etc. 

 

Other than Christmas time, I never, ever see more than 3 or 4 checkouts open at Wal-Mart.  The lines can be eight people deep, and there are still only 3 cashiers, and then usually two over by the self-checks.  Putting in the self-check stations did not change the amount of open registers at a time.  For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they bother to put in 20+ lanes when only 3 or 4 will be used at the most.  

 

The self-checks (in general) can actually boost a store's productivity numbers by increasing the number of people who are able to be checked out at the same time.  So then overall budgets tend to go up (via approval from someone in corporate) and it can actually translate to more people hired because the store has the extra in the budget. 

[DragonFaerie]

Other than Christmas time, I never, ever see more than 3 or 4 checkouts open at Wal-Mart.  The lines can be eight people deep, and there are still only 3 cashiers, and then usually two over by the self-checks.  Putting in the self-check stations did not change the amount of open registers at a time.  For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they bother to put in 20+ lanes when only 3 or 4 will be used at the most.  

 

The self-checks (in general) can actually boost a store's productivity numbers by increasing the number of people who are able to be checked out at the same time.  So then overall budgets tend to go up (via approval from someone in corporate) and it can actually translate to more people hired because the store has the extra in the budget. 

 

So, they lay off some people (cashiers) in order to be able to afford to hire other people (to do what)?  I don't think I'm buying that.  I think when the store makes more money, the executives make more money.  When profits are up, corporate bonuses are up.  

[purplejackmama]

All the emphasis on sports really annoys me. I do think it's a huge money taker. I have no statistics to back this up.

I think it depends on the sport. At my alma mater, football gives the school millions in revenue. But the others, meh not so much.

[goldberry]

Adjuncts are usually moonlighters here. They have full time jobs with bennies if not retired on pension w/retiree medical.

Fast food here is senior citizens suplementing pension plus ss...they have health care via employer that is providing pension.

 

Fast food here is seniors supplementing not good enough SS.  I would say probably 75% of the seniors I know do not get a pension, and that number is rising.  My husband and I are in our 50s, and neither us nor our peers have pensions.  I think I know one person who works for the state that will get a pension.  That's it.  

 

My parents have pension.  DH's mom and dad, neither one have a pension or any supplemental healthcare besides medicare.  DH's dad is 75 and works at WalMart, not by choice.

[Excelsior! Academy]

I worked in a college for the VP of finance. It goes to admininstrators. Buildings. A lot of ours went to sports. New student promotion. etc. 

 

Bolded mine....Yes!  Promotion has to eat up a big %.  I have more than one college age child and the amount of full color mailings from unis across the country to which they have never applied are absurd. They did take the PSAT and ACT, but we aren't talking National Merit Scholars, just average scores.  So it's not like the unis want to boost their numbers with perfect score takers.

[Arcadia]

Yes the college instructors? That is just disgusting how much they charge and then how much they are paying them.

Adjunct pay varies by location. My kids' former teacher is happy as an adjunct professor in a community college.

 

"Five years ago, Margaret Hanzimanolis was fed up with working as an adjunct professor in Vermont, teaching six courses for about $24,000 a year, without health insurance. So she moved across the country to Northern California, where at least 20 colleges were within a 90-minute drive, to begin her life as an adjunct anew.

 

Within days of her arrival, Ms. Hanzimanolis was hired to teach basic writing courses at De Anza College. Then she landed adjunct positions at Cañada College, City College of San Francisco, and Evergreen Valley College. She taught 13 classes year-round and earned $88,000 a year, she says. More important, after 18 months of teaching she was eligible for health benefits. The California wages are higher in part because the cost of living is greater there than in Vermont, but her new income still goes much further now." http://www.chronicle.com/article/Adjunct-Project-Shows-Wide/136439/

 

You can check for your state here https://data.chronicle.com

 

ETA:

UC lecturers pay July 2016 http://apo.ucsc.edu/docs/scales-crnt.pdf

Edited January 15, 2017 by Arcadia

[FaithManor]

Other than Christmas time, I never, ever see more than 3 or 4 checkouts open at Wal-Mart. The lines can be eight people deep, and there are still only 3 cashiers, and then usually two over by the self-checks. Putting in the self-check stations did not change the amount of open registers at a time. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they bother to put in 20+ lanes when only 3 or 4 will be used at the most.

 

The self-checks (in general) can actually boost a store's productivity numbers by increasing the number of people who are able to be checked out at the same time. So then overall budgets tend to go up (via approval from someone in corporate) and it can actually translate to more people hired because the store has the extra in the budget.

Our Walmart had twenty check outs and no matter how packed the store is only two regular lanes are open and one fast lane of 20 items or less. One person at customer service. They have no intention of doing better so when they put in self checkout people got excited becsuse noe they could run in for milk and bread and get out in less than an hour.

 

 

Sigh

[Corraleno]

Other than Christmas time, I never, ever see more than 3 or 4 checkouts open at Wal-Mart.  The lines can be eight people deep, and there are still only 3 cashiers, and then usually two over by the self-checks.  Putting in the self-check stations did not change the amount of open registers at a time.  For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they bother to put in 20+ lanes when only 3 or 4 will be used at the most.  

 

:iagree:

 

In the stores with self-check machines, I'm not seeing fewer cashiers, just shorter lines. So instead of 4 registers open with 4-5 people in each line, there's 3 registers open with 2-3 in each line, and then the 4th cashier is helping the other people with the self-check machines. It looks to me like the machines are just increasing efficiency, not reducing the number of employees.

[FaithManor]

Looks like Adjunct pay in Michigan runs $2000-5000 a course. The CC's are around thst bottom number. So if one tried to pick up 15 credits - 5 classes - poverty!

 

Good grief!

[shanvan]

I watched the report.  Ds found it too sad and left the room.  I pointed out that while it is sad, in a way it is really amazing to see how committed and hard working people can be even in the face of overwhelming obstacles.  It made me grateful, and also frustrated.  We are struggling ourselves and not really in a position to help others.  I wanted to help those people.  We are certainly not facing what the people I watched were facing, but we could be there.  It wouldn't take much.  I don't know that we would handle it as well.     

 

As to the self checks, one of the major supermarkets in our area is in the process of taking them all out.  I was surprised (and a little disappointed) not to find them there anymore.  Sometimes I just don't want to deal with another person and I liked being able to do it myself.  I asked the cashier about the self checks being gone and she said every one of their stores is taking them out.  They were not efficient enough.  Always some sort of problem that the cashiers had to fix, and the company wants people to see a face, a representative of the store.  Their sales went down with the addition of self checks and they were expensive to maintain.  They are thinking human interaction is the way to increase sales.  So, we'll see if they are right.

[fdrinca]

Disclosure: I didn't see the story last night.

 

But I'm curious where DOES all the college money go? Any ideas?

 

There is a great episode of Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History podcast about this (http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/05-food-fight). Lots of money goes to programs that enhance student life, like cafeteria food and dorms. (He stated that an unnamed university was building a new dormitory where all rooms are singles with **double beds,**)

 

 

The big thing I have against automation is that overall it DOES reduce jobs. When Walmart replaces 8 checkouts with self-scan, that's 8 cashiers not hired {potentially more because of shifts}. It will take MAYBE one person to maintain those self-scan machines. Possibly even one person over a couple stores. That means 7 {or more} people without jobs. 

 

And here Min wage is like $8/hr. $10/hr is good money, and $15 is unheard of. Surviving means 2-3 jobs {all PT} or lowering expenses by staying with family etc. 

 

Designing self checkers, coding and programming, and building them? Each sounds like a step up from cashier.

[Guest]

There is a great episode of Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History podcast about this (http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/05-food-fight). Lots of money goes to programs that enhance student life, like cafeteria food and dorms. (He stated that an unnamed university was building a new dormitory where all rooms are singles with **double beds,**)

 

 

 

Designing self checkers, coding and programming, and building them? Each sounds like a step up from cashier.

Your last assertion begs the question of whether the people bagging or doing produce are the ones to fill those higher skill level jobs. In most cases the answer is no - entry level positions still need to be entry level, unskilled jobs need to remain unskilled, or the people employed in those positions never have chance to make it up the ranks and training because they can't ever get the base skills or education to get their foot in the door. When we are talking adults working persistently in low wage positions that's the problem that isn't so for the high schooler or college student just trying to get some extra hours or a summer job.

 

It's complex for sure.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[bettyandbob]

There is a great episode of Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History podcast about this (http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/05-food-fight). Lots of money goes to programs that enhance student life, like cafeteria food and dorms. (He stated that an unnamed university was building a new dormitory where all rooms are singles with **double beds,*

My friend's 6'5" DS got a single room in a suite of four with a double bed. For him the double bed means he can mostly fit on the bed. But most college students are not that tall.

[creekland]

I didn't watch the show, but it sounds like a show I'm really glad aired.

 

So many try to say poverty is deserved - that people just don't work hard enough or try to advance.  So many feel that one ought to be happy earning minimum wage or slightly above it.  It makes me gag TBH.  I try to explain otherwise and get nowhere.  

 

In this country, the rich get wealthier and the rest pay for it.  The system is NOT working.  When 40 - 50% of all working Americans make less than $15.00 per hour ($31,200 income if one says 40 hours per week and 52 weeks per year), while multiple company bigwigs earn in the millions (plural) - something is just plain wrong.

 

Our country is supposed to be a first world country.  I think we're slipping.  If one is wealthy, sure there are plentiful opportunities for everything from food choices to health care, etc, but if one isn't... I'm not even convinced $15/hour is a living wage and close to half make LESS than that.

 

What needs to change is wealth distribution - on a major scale.  There are ways this could happen (not connecting basic income to jobs, etc), but I don't see that happening in the American future.  We're too hooked on practically unchecked capitalism and human nature is rarely content with what they have, so the wealthy always need more.  ('Tis tough to live earning merely millions, you know!)

 

In the meantime, we (personally) do what we can (tipping, supporting as many mom & pop places as we can, donating to charities, esp individual causes, as we are able, and trying to teach the next generation to be understanding and compassionate, etc).  I always wish we could do more (sigh).

 

Yes there are some who cheat the system, but there are far more who have simply given up figuring out there isn't hope (drowning sorrows in cheap drugs, etc).

 

I admire those who are trying to make it work and do my best to support them at all levels (even preferring larger companies who are loved by their workers, etc).  It takes time to be an educated consumer, and of course we're not perfect, but we try. 

[Lady Marmalade]

So, they lay off some people (cashiers) in order to be able to afford to hire other people (to do what)?  I don't think I'm buying that.  I think when the store makes more money, the executives make more money.  When profits are up, corporate bonuses are up.  

 

No, I'm saying that they don't generally lay off people when they put in the self checks in the first place. (Retail in general, not necessarily WM because I don't know what their practices are, but I used to be in retail mgmt.) 

 

So a store that has two people working a cash register normally reports that 50 customers were checked out in the course of an hour.  The store adds self-checks, and now there are still two checkers, plus five self-checks.  Over the course of an hour those 50 customers are now up to 120 customers that the store is serving in an hour. 

 

In a corporate setting that is one of the numbers that the big guys look at when they are approving budgets and new hires (or telling a store to reduce the workforce).  If that increase in productivity matches up with an increase in revenue, that store will most certainly be hiring more people. Maybe not cashiers, but most retail stores want to have their payroll maxed out with the most employees they can have.  Most don't, hence the reason every retailer is always hiring these days. 

[BlsdMama]

I read just yesterday that Millenials are better educated but make less money starting out than their elders.  That's really sad. 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/13/millennials-falling-behind-boomer-parents/96530338/

 

Is it sad?  I think there is more to it than that.  Lets take my dad - retired blue collar worker.  He built tractors.  My brother in law does the same job.  In this part of the Midwest, job unemployment is crazy low and there are Help Wanted signs all around.  (Forgive my lack of apostrophes - the key is missing - two year old. :P )

 

My dad was pretty well paid for his job, no denying it, but he started low, he worked hard, he worked in the bowels of the plant for several years where the conditions were brutal, and he got a raise every year.  Every year, there are cost of living raises and obviously raises for superior work ability/ethic.  So, heck yeah, he better be making more after THIRTY years of sacrifice to the company as a kid walking in the door with more EDUCATION but, thus far, unproven commitment, loyalty, and work ethic - and not to mention ZERO experience.

 

Those old guys?  They are better paid because they have proven their worth.  My DH has the degrees to pad his resume but the starting wage between him just out of college and after 15 years experience is huge.  And, IMO, it should be.

 

When a company makes him an offer based on his degree, it is assuming he has the knowledge he ought to have.  When they continue to employ him, give him raises, give him bonuses, that is based off his applied knowledge, his commitment, and mostly experience, and, in this day and age, his ability to network with people he has come into contact in the past fifteen years.  That is almost more valuable than just experience.  

 

 

 

I thought it left out a lot of analysis on the briefly mentioned role of govt., for example zoning boards. Totally left training out of the equation....govt has devastated K12 schools by shifting funding to the point that there is no votech and in many cases, no real college prep....military can't train everyone.

 

The fella working at stanford wasn't a sad sack story here...that kind of commute is short ...most of my neighbors have to have a car to get to the train station and its another ninety miles in to NYC, then whatever on the subway/bus. They are happy to be able to still work in the city as they have better wages and bennies than they could find outside the city, plus no education debt at all And their homes have grass in the yards.

 

 

The lack of focus on vo-tech training is an absolute travesty.  Many of these kids could make more money after two years of vo-tech than they could with their Masters and with far less cost.  

I wonder how much of this is the kids and how much the parents?  Lets face it, we all think our little darlings are their own special snowflake and that they can do anything they *want* in spite of years of mediocre high school commitment and performance.  Sounds cold, but theres truth to that.

 

Disclosure: I didn't see the story last night.

 

But I'm curious where DOES all the college money go? Any ideas?

 

I vote sports buildings.

 

 

I worked in a college for the VP of finance. It goes to admininstrators. Buildings. A lot of ours went to sports. New student promotion. etc. 

 

Yes.

[DawnM]

I didn't watch. I am reading the about it on the show's webpage http://abcnews.go.com/US/deepdive/diane-sawyer-income-inequality-my-reality-hidden-america-44770807?cid=clicksource_359_null_dp_hed

 

This quoted below is so wrong (the unpaid waiting around part) for the drivers. The bus drivers back home could earn extra income during the day hours. So they drop off the workers, do whatever other job they have or go home and rest, then pick up the workers in the evening; they usually can earn two pay checks this way.

 

"Some drivers are contracted to work what’s called a “split shift,†meaning they arrive for work at 6 a.m. to take tech employees to their offices, then have to wait around for a number of hours, unpaid, until it’s time to take the employees back home at the end of the day. These drivers work and are paid for a total of eight hours but over a 16-hour period." http://abcnews.go.com/US/bus-drivers-working-alongside-silicon-valley-millionaires-struggle/story?id=44707434

 

$15/hr in urban cities are quite common, but with retail losing to online sales not sure how many retail jobs will be even around regardless of what the minimum wage is.

 

"Under union pressures and publicity about drivers receiving few benefits, Facebook now requires contractors to pay contract employees a minimum of $15 an hour, 15 days of paid time off, and a $4,000 stipend for new parents if their contractors don’t provide parental leave. Apple and Google followed suit with announcing 25 percent wage increases for all drivers." http://abcnews.go.com/US/bus-drivers-working-alongside-silicon-valley-millionaires-struggle/story?id=44707434

 

I know someone who is a school bus driver in Indiana.  She told me something similar, but actually worse.  They used to pay school bus drivers full time work, with benefits.  Now, she only gets paid the hours she works, 6 hours total per day, split into two 3 hour shifts, but no benefits.  

 

I feel so bad for her.

[Bluegoat]

I know someone who is a school bus driver in Indiana.  She told me something similar, but actually worse.  They used to pay school bus drivers full time work, with benefits.  Now, she only gets paid the hours she works, 6 hours total per day, split into two 3 hour shifts, but no benefits.  

 

I feel so bad for her.

 

THis sort of thing is a sign the whole system is in trouble.  People say "well, they should train for better jobs."  Yeah, sure, if there were better options out there, people would not stay in the underpaid jobs.  They do stay, and the reason is they are pulling the same crap in those other industries as well.

 

And sorry, there is no world in which every person will be in some sort of profession.  It's not possible, and not really desirable either.  Even if we could have self-driving busses, we'd need an adult on the school bus.

[mommyoffive]

I watched the report.  Ds found it too sad and left the room.  I pointed out that while it is sad, in a way it is really amazing to see how committed and hard working people can be even in the face of overwhelming obstacles.  It made me grateful, and also frustrated.  We are struggling ourselves and not really in a position to help others.  I wanted to help those people.  We are certainly not facing what the people I watched were facing, but we could be there.  It wouldn't take much.  I don't know that we would handle it as well.     

 

As to the self checks, one of the major supermarkets in our area is in the process of taking them all out.  I was surprised (and a little disappointed) not to find them there anymore.  Sometimes I just don't want to deal with another person and I liked being able to do it myself.  I asked the cashier about the self checks being gone and she said every one of their stores is taking them out.  They were not efficient enough.  Always some sort of problem that the cashiers had to fix, and the company wants people to see a face, a representative of the store.  Their sales went down with the addition of self checks and they were expensive to maintain.  They are thinking human interaction is the way to increase sales.  So, we'll see if they are right.

 

 

What store is taking them out?

[Anne]

 

 

As to the self checks, one of the major supermarkets in our area is in the process of taking them all out. I was surprised (and a little disappointed) not to find them there anymore. Sometimes I just don't want to deal with another person and I liked being able to do it myself. I asked the cashier about the self checks being gone and she said every one of their stores is taking them out. They were not efficient enough. Always some sort of problem that the cashiers had to fix, and the company wants people to see a face, a representative of the store. Their sales went down with the addition of self checks and they were expensive to maintain. They are thinking human interaction is the way to increase sales. So, we'll see if they are right.

Apparently Safeway is taking out all of their self-check machines across the board. Here, they took out four (or maybe six) self-check machines and replaced them with two Fast Lanes, only one of which is typically staffed. There is *always* a wait to check out quickly. I find it incredibly frustrating and do my best to avoid that store.

 

Anne

[IfIOnly]

What store is taking them out?

Our local Safeway took out their self checks recently. The other Safeway in town never added them. I read something once that theft was a problem with the self checkouts, but the person I asked at Safeway said the reason for the switch was the constant problems with the machines.

[Arcadia]

Apparently Safeway is taking out all of their self-check machines across the board. Here, they took out four (or maybe six) self-check machines and replaced them with two Fast Lanes, only one of which is typically staffed. There is *always* a wait to check out quickly.

I just used the self checked machine at Safeway yesterday. They have 6 self checks machines and 6 cashiers counters open during lunch hours, less cashiers off peak hours. No fast lanes here. My local Safeway is a 24/7.

[goldberry]

What store is taking them out?

 

Our Safeway just took them out.  They said they didn't want to but it came from corporate.

[Bluegoat]

No, I'm saying that they don't generally lay off people when they put in the self checks in the first place. (Retail in general, not necessarily WM because I don't know what their practices are, but I used to be in retail mgmt.) 

 

So a store that has two people working a cash register normally reports that 50 customers were checked out in the course of an hour.  The store adds self-checks, and now there are still two checkers, plus five self-checks.  Over the course of an hour those 50 customers are now up to 120 customers that the store is serving in an hour. 

 

In a corporate setting that is one of the numbers that the big guys look at when they are approving budgets and new hires (or telling a store to reduce the workforce).  If that increase in productivity matches up with an increase in revenue, that store will most certainly be hiring more people. Maybe not cashiers, but most retail stores want to have their payroll maxed out with the most employees they can have.  Most don't, hence the reason every retailer is always hiring these days. 

 

They might not lay people off, but if they want to sell more without the machines, they would in fact have to hire more people.

 

Now, if they can't get people to do those jobs, even when they pay a fair wage, machines aren't making a difference.  If they are trying to avoid hiring, or can't get people because they are poor employers, that is another things altogether.

[Guest]

Disclosure: I didn't see the story last night.

 

But I'm curious where DOES all the college money go? Any ideas?

 

I know where it went at my school.