When a child no longer wants to cooperate with homeschooling

[DesertBlossom]

I put my oldest back in PS because every day's work he tried to negotiate down to nothing, and if he didn't get his way there was often yelling and anger and I just couldn't take it anymore. For the sake of our relationship, he went back to school and I still feel that was the right decision.

 

My 8 year old is very different temperamentally. When he doesn't want to do something, he just quietly disappears. We are doing minimalist homeschooling this year, and I know he's not overwhelmed with his work. He only has a few things to do that he can and does do independently. He just doesn't want to do it. I have 5 kids at home, including a baby, so I can't sit with him constantly. But he is reaching expert level avoidance. Every time I turn my back, he's gone.

 

We have talked about putting him back in school. I hate to threaten him with that. But I also hate that this is causing tension. He loses his electronics priviledges (tv, tablet, computer) if he doesn't finish his work, but he's happy to lay on the floor doing nothing.

 

I need ideas.

 

Fwiw, he says he doesn't want to go to school either.

Edited October 3, 2016 by DesertBlossom

[Arcadia]

My DS10 drifts off to daydreaming land if I am not tomato staking him. Putting him in outside classes, mostly online, helped a lot. Apps like Duolingo and Quizlet for foreign language while I am cooking helps because he is accountable to something else instead of parents nagging.

Basically this kid is good at delaying/procrastinating on anything that is on mommy/daddy schedule if we don't prod but an outside schedule and he would work hard enough to get a minimum B grade.

 

ETA:

He is a box checker with some executive function issues that are getting better. So he is someone that need a list for his swim bag and a bag for each outside class. He had a magazine holder for each subject when he was younger to help him out. So he needs task lists to know what needs to be done while my older makes his own task lists because he likes structure.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Arcadia

[catz]

I just think that is pretty age appropriate behavior for an 8 year old boy.  I think you should only schedule the work you can sit down for him with.  At that age, we did a block of reading, writing, and math.  Maybe averaging 20 minutes each.  We also did music practice.  Other than that, we did documentaries, online math games, park programs, science kits, cooking, craft supplies, active play, snap circuits, field trips, group classes of interest, etc.  Pair him up with a sibling or 2 if possible for things.

 

I wouldn't threaten him.  If you decide school is the right fit for your family, then choose that and own it.  It's totally fine if it is.  One of mine went to school for a stretch.  It's not the 8 year old's fault he has 5 siblings behind him.  Plenty of kids that age aren't super excited about grinding out school work. 

[happi duck]

I agree with WS...don't threaten with school...make a decision and own it.

 

If your decision is to homeschool then something needs to change. Gently, you are the teacher and the adult...the responsibility is yours.

 

Parents would never accept a teacher saying they had no control over a student disappearing with saying "I can't watch him all day."

 

You're "mom" but you are also "teacher".

 

Imo, homeschooling requires really owning *both* those roles. It's a challenge for sure but doable.

 

If you truly need to sit with him constantly you'll need to find a way to do that while parenting the younger kids. The way you're used to parenting babies and toddlers might need to change but your younger kids came into a different family than your older kids, kwim?

 

I do mean this post to be a gentle yet firm encouragement.

 

You can do it...cuz you d' mom!!

[LMD]

My 9 year old son is very distractable. He has a daily checklist to work through, but I am constantly checking and redirecting. He just doesn't have the skills yet to stay on task - because he's 9. We tend to all be in the same area for school so I know when someone disappears.

I gently agree with happiduck, can you schedule even a couple of 15min meetings with him to help him with momentum? One at the beginning - something together and a talk through his list. One meeting nearer the end - see how far he's gotten, any questions, boost for the last part.

[Laurel-in-CA]

Timers....they can help moms remember to check as well as kids remember there is a deadline to meet or give them hope that the end is coming to a particular subject. Losing something as a consequence....yes, but some kids find rewards more motivating. Would a reward for being done with x, y, or z when the timer goes off be more motivating? What about 15 min. of playtime after every subject?

 

I found it helpful to schedule essentials in the morning and the things I was willing to be more relaxed about after lunch. For you, maybe essentials need to be during little people's nap times when you can sit with him. 

 

Just a few suggestions.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We've all BTDT! Hauling 8yo little boys back to the lesson is part of the homeschool mom's job description. Be consistent, keep him within eye and earshot while he's working, interact with him very frequently, and he'll get used to your expectations.

 

 

[mommyoffive]

I just think that is pretty age appropriate behavior for an 8 year old boy.  I think you should only schedule the work you can sit down for him with.  At that age, we did a block of reading, writing, and math.  Maybe averaging 20 minutes each.  We also did music practice.  Other than that, we did documentaries, online math games, park programs, science kits, cooking, craft supplies, active play, snap circuits, field trips, group classes of interest, etc.  Pair him up with a sibling or 2 if possible for things.

 

I wouldn't threaten him.  If you decide school is the right fit for your family, then choose that and own it.  It's totally fine if it is.  One of mine went to school for a stretch.  It's not the 8 year old's fault he has 5 siblings behind him.  Plenty of kids that age aren't super excited about grinding out school work. 

 

Great advice.

 

I am in the same boat.

 

i follow this blog

 

http://www.nourishingmyscholar dot com

 

I am trying to model our school more like this.  Kids want to be outside and doing and moving.  All kids but boys for sure.   Heck I do too.  

Edited October 4, 2016 by mommyoffive

[myfunnybunch]

Hugs. I get it. I have three distractible boys.

 

I wonder if re-framing this would help. To me, an 8 year-old wandering off during the school day seems to be more about developmental readiness than cooperation. At that age, many children simply aren't ready to be that self-directed, no matter how badly we need them to be.

 

I found that focused short blocks of instruction, coupled with independent work while I was still present to redirect attention was most effective. For example, a short math lesson, a physical activity break (jumping jacks, run up and down the stairs), then sitting nearby playing a game with the little or folding the laundry or someother task that allowed me to be present and still productive.

 

And, it's okay to send him to school if you think that might be a better fit for him and for you. It can be overwhelming to juggle home and homeschooling the older kids and entertaining the little ones.

[SebastianCat]

We used timers a LOT at that age, as well as exercise breaks. My DS is now a freshman in high school and works completely independently. But at 8 he used a timer for all of his workbook-ish subjects, like math, and took breaks to do jumping jacks several times each day. Try to keep him moving and see if that helps.

 

I agree with others that it's ok to choose school if homeschooling truly isn't working.

[Guest]

Gently, it is your job to sit there with him and help him stay on task if you choose to home educate and he cannot manage to keep attention on his own. That's incredibly normal for that age range.

 

I do a lot of block scheduling and parenting from the table. The littles have to play quietly while I supervise. During the times I need to cook or change a diaper or whatever I will put the kids on tasks that need zero supervision or I can hear, like piano or silent reading with a timer.

 

That's the way it goes. And yes, sometimes that means the school kids drag their books into the bathroom and do math in their laps while I'm putting on makeup :rofl: We also do a lot of parenting and schooling trom the couch because of my health issues and lack of stamina. You just tweak and make it work.

 

If you can't or won't adjust things so he can be successful and you aren't going nuts, school outside of home may be the best choice. But he isn't outside what I'd expect of any eight year old - they can be champion dawdlers and that's just something that has to be accounted for in how your structure your day :)

Edited October 4, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Ausmumof3]

Two things

 

Um I do threaten school sometimes. I'm not proud of it but the truth is if my ds doesn't learn well from me he has to go to school to learn because I'm not having him uneducated. He appreciates the freedom homeschooling gives him so it does help his motivation to know if I can't teach him someone else will have to.

 

I found eight to be the worst age for this. I actually am able to somewhat use the spiral notebook system now with my ten year old and he is getting really responsible about doing stuff.

 

Lastly, realistically if you can't sit with him at all, gently, you may have to consider school as there is definitely some element of sit down teacher time required at this age. Our school work definitely happens best when I block out at lest an hour of the day to sit, correct mistakes as the happen and stop day dreaming as soon as it happens. Without this dawdling habits grow bigger and harder to deal with.

[Alicia64]

We don't have a school for my 13 year old who was battling me constantly. I finally handed him over to dh which has been great for everyone: me, dh, ds. Even his twin is loving the extra attention he's getting from me.

 

The son who is being supervised by dh is very responsible and great about doing his schoolwork.

 

For dh.

 

Alley

[lllll]

nm 

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Cathi

[Julie Smith]

Youngest is 10, and will be turning 11 next month. I consider him typically in work ethic. The only things he does independently are mesmerism, stack the countries, and playing things he likes on the piano.  I would not except him to work independently on things that require, for the lack of a better term, work. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Is your 8 yo otherwise NT? 

 

We have dealt with a similar dynamic, and my answer differs as to whether he is NT or not.  In any event, school needs to happen--whether at home or at a public school building.

[DesertBlossom]

Well, I'm guessing he's disappearing because he remembers the yelling and anger between you and your oldest ds, and he's doesn't want to live through that again.

Wow, that was rather presumptuous and rude. Nope, that's not it.

[Jyhwkmama]

Have you tried workbox method?

[prairiewindmomma]

Have you tried workbox method?

 

This is what we ended up doing with my non-NT ds.  He couldn't quantify what school needed to be done, even from a checklist, and the transitions between subjects were challenging.  As far as the flat out refusals went, we had to add a lot more sensory breaks and other things.

[maize]

I'm inclined to agree with those who say this is developmentally normal behavior in an 8 year old boy, and you likely will need to sit with him to see work done.

[DesertBlossom]

Thank you for the replies. He's a really good kid and very self-motivated about certain things, like practicing the piano. He's been trying to teach himself to play the guitar using youtube videos and a couple books he has. And he's the only one who mows the lawn because he loves doing and does a pretty decent job for a recently turned 8 year old. He's an awesome kid.

 

It just seems like in recent months if he doesn't want to do something, he makes extra effort to avoid it. Like works harder to avoid something than it would have taken to do it in the first place. There's a lot of whining and a lot of "why do I even need to learn math?" He didn't used to do that. Maybe I do need to just devote undivided time to him instead of trying to multi-task our mornings. Thank you for all the help.

Edited October 4, 2016 by DesertBlossom

[DesertBlossom]

Is your 8 yo otherwise NT?

 

We have dealt with a similar dynamic, and my answer differs as to whether he is NT or not. In any event, school needs to happen--whether at home or at a public school building.

Yes, he is.

[DesertBlossom]

I guess I was hoping for general motivational tips and tricks as well. I know some people are very against reward systems and sticker charts, and quite frankly I am really bad at following through with stuff like that. I know sitting down and doing certain types of schoolwork falls pretty low on most kids' list of exciting things to do.

[maize]

I think workboxes are worth a try.

[DesertBlossom]

Have you tried workbox method?

He has a small student planner where we write down his work, not including the subjects we do together.

[Arcadia]

. I know sitting down and doing certain types of schoolwork falls pretty low on most kids' list of exciting things to do.

 

DS10 does his math during "Recess" so he eats his snacks or a sandwich while he does his work. I am seated less than a meter away doing my own leisure reading so that I can redirect if he daydreams. If I am sick. my hubby would sit next to him and monitor his work in the evening.

 

ETA:

Also he does his work standing or walking around.  He just pause to write and then continue walking.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Arcadia

[Guest]

We have used workboxes and checklists, but that doesn't prevent the kids from getting off task at all if I'm not in the room. It does give them a predictable order of things needing to be done and a quick resource for independent work on hand, but it doesn't prevent math lessons from stretching two hours if I'm not checking in. They help, but they're more a work management tool than any big workaround for getting off task.

[MinivanMom]

None of my kids have been capable of working independently at age 8. I didn't need to be sitting right there beside them, but I needed to be present in the room. I have 2 hours set aside every morning for my little kids (PK, 1st, & 3rd), and I do not leave the room at all: not to answer the phone, not to move a load of laundry. I'm physically present at all times the way a teacher in a classroom would be present at all times.

 

I've also found that a checklist helps for motivation and staying on track, but not until about 9-10 yrs old. I put everything on that checklist, including things they do with me and extras like soccer or Scouts, and it really helps keep them focused. By 11-12, my kids are fine to work independently while I'm in another room or even out running errands, but it's a long road to get there. 

[fairfarmhand]

Math--put an m and m on each problem. When he completes it he gets the candy. This also helps me check work because he'll call out the answer to me as he works.

 

Music (classical) drowns out the other tempting sounds in the household that distract him.

 

 

 

[Reefgazer]

I've got one like this; tries to get out of everything.  I pulled all screens (TV, iPod, computer) until I see sustained attention to getting the work done on time, as assigned.  I have no hesitation in pulling other fun stuff until he learns to stay on task, as he is 12 and old enough to work mostly independently.  Mine wants to go back to school (he thinks he's over-worked at home and says he's lonely).  I told him he can go back to school, but not public school and that he would have to choose one of the private schools around here.  He just wants to go to public school because that's where his friends go, but no way, not here.  He says he doesn't want to go to Cathloic school because religion classes are a waste of time, and he doesn't want to follow the dress code of no jeans in the non-religious schools.  So he opts to stay home and make my life hell instead.

I put my oldest back in PS because every day's work he tried to negotiate down to nothing, and if he didn't get his way there was often yelling and anger and I just couldn't take it anymore. For the sake of our relationship, he went back to school and I still feel that was the right decision.

My 8 year old is very different temperamentally. When he doesn't want to do something, he just quietly disappears. We are doing minimalist homeschooling this year, and I know he's not overwhelmed with his work. He only has a few things to do that he can and does do independently. He just doesn't want to do it. I have 5 kids at home, including a baby, so I can't sit with him constantly. But he is reaching expert level avoidance. Every time I turn my back, he's gone.

We have talked about putting him back in school. I hate to threaten him with that. But I also hate that this is causing tension. He loses his electronics priviledges (tv, tablet, computer) if he doesn't finish his work, but he's happy to lay on the floor doing nothing.

I need ideas.

Fwiw, he says he doesn't want to go to school either.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by reefgazer

[Reefgazer]

We just instituted timers with DD (not a problem student, but needed help focusing, apparently), and I was skeptical, but she has cut the time she spends on math by at least a third because she focuses on gettin' it done.  Worth a try, IMO.

Timers....they can help moms remember to check as well as kids remember there is a deadline to meet or give them hope that the end is coming to a particular subject. Losing something as a consequence....yes, but some kids find rewards more motivating. Would a reward for being done with x, y, or z when the timer goes off be more motivating? What about 15 min. of playtime after every subject?

 

I found it helpful to schedule essentials in the morning and the things I was willing to be more relaxed about after lunch. For you, maybe essentials need to be during little people's nap times when you can sit with him. 

 

Just a few suggestions.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by reefgazer

[busymama7]

I put my oldest back in PS because every day's work he tried to negotiate down to nothing, and if he didn't get his way there was often yelling and anger and I just couldn't take it anymore. For the sake of our relationship, he went back to school and I still feel that was the right decision.

 

My 8 year old is very different temperamentally. When he doesn't want to do something, he just quietly disappears. We are doing minimalist homeschooling this year, and I know he's not overwhelmed with his work. He only has a few things to do that he can and does do independently. He just doesn't want to do it. I have 5 kids at home, including a baby, so I can't sit with him constantly. But he is reaching expert level avoidance. Every time I turn my back, he's gone.

 

We have talked about putting him back in school. I hate to threaten him with that. But I also hate that this is causing tension. He loses his electronics priviledges (tv, tablet, computer) if he doesn't finish his work, but he's happy to lay on the floor doing nothing.

 

I need ideas.

 

Fwiw, he says he doesn't want to go to school either.

8 is young. You have to sit at the table with him while he works. Everyone who is homeschooling sits at the table and babies and toddlers have to be entertained at the table or nearby on the flor. Move a rocking chair next to the school table if that would help with the baby. There is no other option. Sit and work with him. "Independent" is a misnomer at this age. He may not need help exactly but he needs you sitting there and guiding him the whole time. The longer you let this go on the worse it's going to get.

 

I have 9. Have graduated 2 so far. 5 boys. I've been around this block a few times and as soon as I quit making "working independently" the goal everything changed and improved. Not only attitudes but learning as well.

[maize]

He has a small student planner where we write down his work, not including the subjects we do together.

The physical aspect of workboxes makes a real difference for some kids.

[EmilyGF]

Timers....they can help moms remember to check as well as kids remember there is a deadline to meet or give them hope that the end is coming to a particular subject. Losing something as a consequence....yes, but some kids find rewards more motivating. Would a reward for being done with x, y, or z when the timer goes off be more motivating? What about 15 min. of playtime after every subject?

 

I found it helpful to schedule essentials in the morning and the things I was willing to be more relaxed about after lunch. For you, maybe essentials need to be during little people's nap times when you can sit with him. 

 

Just a few suggestions.

This was SUPER motivating for my easily-distracted dd when she was 8/9. 

 

Here's how we did it: I gave a time estimate for every.single.thing she did and then set the iPad timer to that amount. I usually over-estimated to make success attainable. Then, if she finished first, she got a check mark. Every check mark was a minute extra recess. It really helped her turn the corner on math (as in, going from a 2 hour lesson to a 25 minute lesson).

 

She tells me, even now, "Why should I hurry if I just get more work?"

 

Emily

[DesertBlossom]

This was SUPER motivating for my easily-distracted dd when she was 8/9.

 

Here's how we did it: I gave a time estimate for every.single.thing she did and then set the iPad timer to that amount. I usually over-estimated to make success attainable. Then, if she finished first, she got a check mark. Every check mark was a minute extra recess. It really helped her turn the corner on math (as in, going from a 2 hour lesson to a 25 minute lesson).

 

She tells me, even now, "Why should I hurry if I just get more work?"

 

Emily

This sounds like something that could really help!

[zoobie]

I have a cheerful wandering boy. He's 11 now, and it's getting better. Definitely lots of hand holding. Even sitting beside him, I have to say, "Dude! Math!!!" fifteen thousand times. He comes by his ADD honestly. ;)

[myfunnybunch]

:)

 

Practical things that worked for my boys:

 

Short lessons with lots of breaks. Physical activity in between.

Alternate preferred and non-preferred subjects.

SHORT independent work times, to build the skill of working independently. I'm talking, two math problems to finish while mom goes to do xyz on the other side of the room, then in the other room, then three or four problems, then.... Start small, build on success, expect that what you're really doing is not teaching the skill immediately but building a foundation for him as he matures developmentally.

I never tried work boxes, but I found that putting the books in a stack at the end of the table helped. I think for one kiddo, I even had a morning stack and an afternoon stack. Once the books are all back on the shelf, school is done for the day.

Screen time upon school completion. In a practical sense, it made no difference, but when it was framed as an earned privilege rather than an activity removed, it was more motivating for the boys.

 

And I still, for my middle schoolers, give a prize for a completed checklist. Now it's the weekly checklist, and they have to finish by 3:00 on Friday, AND they MUST do their schoolwork all week without being a pain in my butt, er, without complaining too much, but it's still effective. They're half self-motivated already, and they'd likely finish anyway, but they still like getting a prize. My high schooler decided he's too old for such nonsense, but heck, I'd still do it for him if he wanted it. Saves me having to lecture my people about attitudes. :P

[DawnM]

I had a lot of trouble with my Aspie son, but for different reasons.

 

I did an online program for a while, which had videos and interactive stuff, so that it wasn't just seat work, workbooks, reading, writing, etc...

 

When he got to high school, he refused to do a lot of things. Just refused. So I quit fighting. His Sr. year was a total bust.

 

But guess what? He is now in community college and getting straight A's.

 

I say this for encouragement. Not every lesson has to be completed with all the T's crossed and the I's dotted. They are learning.

 

In hindsight, I wish I had done less of a focus on academics and more on hands on (TimeTraveler's was a hit) and play and such in the early ages.

[kbutton]

Some things we are trying here for the same issues...

 

Physical barriers to remind them not to wander off--we put a baby gate up at chest height for the room where the children seem to disappear most. It's a giant visual--they can crawl under it at that height, or even limbo, lol!

We try to bring all the stuff that we need to one spot so that my 8 y.o. doesn't have to get up to get something and then disappear. 

Yesterday we made a list of real and fake problems. Fake problem: It's Monday, and Mondays never go well. Real problem: My brother is talking too much, and I literally can't hear myself think. A lot of this kind of stuff is behind the wandering off--fixing it or coming up with strategies helps.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I have to agree with PP's, you are going to have to make time to sit with him and do school.  Figure out what is non-negotiable (reading out loud(from SoTW), still needs practice writing? Math) and do those in 15-20 minute sections. Science can be gotten to once or twice a week, do something a bit more fun and that's it.  Let him watch documentaries or do reenactments of SoTW with legos but nothing else structured.  If you can not because of younger sibs spend 1-2 hours per day with the 8 year old then I would send him to some kind of school.  Look into classes for HSer's first but if it comes down to it, PS.  I don't want to sound harsh. I know if I had toddlers running around there is very little likelihood I could HS my older kids.  Littles require so much time and energy.  

 

 

My DS, now 15, is like zoobies and OP's. Quiet and easily distracted. I have sat beside him for years reminding him to get back to work.

Edited October 5, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy