sometimes I HATE aspergers

[ktgrok]

I KNOW he doesn't know the appropriate thing to say. But when I TELL him what to say, and he refuses, because it isn't "logical"it makes me want to curl up and cry. Or scream. Or both. 

 

My 16 yr old accidentally squashed my finger in his door. I had my finger in the crack on the hinge side, he didn't see it, and closed the door. Mind you, I would have had plenty of time to move my finger if he hadn't been shutting the door in my face. Which I already hate. 

 

I grabbed my hand and said "ow ow ow" and such. like you normally do. Rather than saying "oh, sorry! are you okay" he starts lecturing me on how I'm being a big baby and it shouldn't hurt that much!

 

I told him "seriously, you squish my finger and instead of saying sorry you are lecturing me for saying it hurts???"

 

"Yeah, you're being a baby about it."

 

I told him that the appropriate thing to say is "I'm sorry" and maybe ask if I'm okay. I knew he didn't get it, so I told him what to say. He's now refusing, and saying it is dumb and illogical to apologize for an accident, and it is my own fault for putting my finger there. At that point I said to apologize, or he can go without internet access until he does. 

 

 

....and now he just left on his bike. Saying he would never ever apologize for me being stupid. 

[Guest]

I'm sorry he's having attitude and your finger got sacrificed to the door. That really does hurt. Is he likely to cool down later and 'get' it or is it just a lost cause?

[DawnM]

Oh, I completely get it!  Mine is 18.  He has gotten better in the last 18 months or so.

 

Now he will say, "Oh are you all right?"  But he doesn't really care about the answer!  :cursing:

 

But ask me how he would respond if HE got hurt......just ask.......I dare 'ya

[Laurel]

(Hugs)

I can relate on so many levels. Dss (14 almost 15) left yesterday because he was asked to clean his trash and stuff out of the car from our road trip the day before. It's so hard to try to hold him accountable, and yet still feel like I'm walking on eggshells because if he gets upset he will just leave. Autism combined with teen boy self-centered-ness is not fun.

 

And on the other hand, there may be hope. Dp now understands that if I say "ow" or something similar, the correct response is to ask if I am okay, rather than continue talking about whatever he is into at the moment. So your son may never be able to "hear" it from you, but perhaps someday, he will listen to someone else.

[ktgrok]

And, I just walked by his room to put the 3 yr old to bed and saw that he punched a hole in his door. I'll be making him pay for that. 

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Okra]

Awww….hugs…..that is SO DIFFICULT!  I'm sorry.  

[Outdoorsy Type]

(((Hugs))))

[DawnM]

And, I just walked by his room to put the 3 yr old to bed and saw that he punched a hole in his door. I'll be making him pay for that. 

 

 

I am going to tell you what has made the most difference for us.  

 

Therapy and me changing my parenting style.  

 

A very logical answer, and what would work with my neurotypical kids, is completely lost on my Aspie.

 

Between the group therapy, the individual therapy, and the therapist telling me how to change, he has changed.  Not completely, he is still Aspie, will always be an Aspie, but the outbursts are far fewer, he has calmed down, etc....

 

But it takes the right therapist, one who truly understands Asperger's.  

[ktgrok]

Well, he came back. We texted back and forth. Not going to lie, I told him the longer he was gone the longer he'd be without internet. He can't just leave whenever he wants. His room is a disaster and actually smells terrible..it's stinking up the house and he is supposed to clean it. He also needs to apologize. He is so far behind in school work it is seriously pathetic. So over this. 

 

Needless to say, I'm not homeschooling him next year. 1 online class and 3 community college courses. 

[bolt.]

It sounds like he was a lot more frustrated than he knew what to do with. I hope he is able to hear your social script teaching sometime when he is more receptive. (I think your apology might be a lost cause though.)

[luuknam]

Okay, so, since it doesn't hurt that much, we're going to do a little experiment. Put your fingers here, and let me close the door.

 

(unless he's got a ridiculously high pain threshold, which I know *some* people do, but it's rare)

[ktgrok]

Okay, so, since it doesn't hurt that much, we're going to do a little experiment. Put your fingers here, and let me close the door.

 

(unless he's got a ridiculously high pain threshold, which I know *some* people do, but it's rare)

 

He actually does. He broke his finger at school and kept playing, no one even sent home note about it. He broke two vertebrae in his back, crushing them, then walked home several blocks. 

[Mrs. Tharp]

Keep holding him accountable and hang in there!  :grouphug:

[luuknam]

He actually does. He broke his finger at school and kept playing, no one even sent home note about it. He broke two vertebrae in his back, crushing them, then walked home several blocks. 

 

I assume that it's been explained to him that his pain threshold is off the charts (his doctor should be able to tell him that if you need backup). What I'd do is get one of those pain scales they use at hospitals (with the smiley/frowny faces and the numbers) and try to educate him on how much pain is normal for different things. He can poll others so he can see it's not just you being a baby. Also, maybe throw in some neuroscience about different body parts being more or less sensitive to pain (or touch in general, for that matter), and that it makes sense for pinched fingers to hurt a lot, because they're very important to human survival, so the human body normally rings alarm bells when something happens that puts you at risk of losing your fingers (like pinching them in the door).

 

It does sound like what happened before the finger-pinching had already pushed him over the edge though, so it was not the best time to expect lots of empathy. And 16yos are often not the most thoughtful people, NT or Aspie. No real advice there.

[Janeway]

Could he have more going on? Like a comorbid condition?

 

My 14 yr old has Aspergers. Maybe he will be like that at 16. But I hope not.

 

(((hugs))))

[MomatHWTK]

I don't get A) going beyond telling him what could be said differently; B) expecting anything other than resistance when backing an Aspie into a corner. It would never work here- ever. If I want to reach my Aspie, I wait until the timing is right and always give him a way to save face or exit without pressure. No matter how many times we might wish the child's brain were wired differently, it just isn't. Life is so much easier when I learn to speak my Apsie's language first, and then begin to teach him mine. 

[MomatHWTK]

I am going to tell you what has made the most difference for us.  

 

Therapy and me changing my parenting style.  

 

A very logical answer, and what would work with my neurotypical kids, is completely lost on my Aspie.

 

Between the group therapy, the individual therapy, and the therapist telling me how to change, he has changed.  Not completely, he is still Aspie, will always be an Aspie, but the outbursts are far fewer, he has calmed down, etc....

 

But it takes the right therapist, one who truly understands Asperger's.  

:iagree:  

You either help them develop or you trigger resistance. Triggering resistance is miserable for everyone. 

[MercyA]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[frogger]

I'm so sorry.  :grouphug:

[eternalsummer]

What is it you want him to apologize for?  It *is* illogical to apologize for accidents; we do it largely as social lubrication (and because we generally feel sorry to have been a participant in the bad thing, however unwittingly), but there is no logic behind it.  He did nothing wrong by shutting your finger in the door (don't put your fingers on the hinge side of doors!  always a bad idea) and if he sees apologizing as something you do when you have done something wrong, it makes sense that he doesn't feel compelled to apologize for it.

 

Of course you can force him to since you are older and have more power (control of the internet), but that seems like a bad way to run a relationship, and wouldn't make him actually sorry anyway.

 

Instead of teaching him to apologize for something he hasn't done wrong, you might approach it from an expressing empathy point of view - he doesn't need to say he's sorry, as he hasn't committed a sin, but he could *maybe* learn to say, "ack, that must have hurt!  are you okay?" or something similar.  The latter response is more logical, which might make more sense to him.

[mamiof5]

What is it you want him to apologize for? It *is* illogical to apologize for accidents; we do it largely as social lubrication (and because we generally feel sorry to have been a participant in the bad thing, however unwittingly), but there is no logic behind it. He did nothing wrong by shutting your finger in the door (don't put your fingers on the hinge side of doors! always a bad idea) and if he sees apologizing as something you do when you have done something wrong, it makes sense that he doesn't feel compelled to apologize for it.

 

Of course you can force him to since you are older and have more power (control of the internet), but that seems like a bad way to run a relationship, and wouldn't make him actually sorry anyway.

 

Instead of teaching him to apologize for something he hasn't done wrong, you might approach it from an expressing empathy point of view - he doesn't need to say he's sorry, as he hasn't committed a sin, but he could *maybe* learn to say, "ack, that must have hurt! are you okay?" or something similar. The latter response is more logical, which might make more sense to him.

I'm not sure I understand your line of thinking. I'd never consider illogical to apologize for an accident. If on accident I turn around, bump into my ds and knock him with my elbow... (for example), there's NO WAY I wouldn't say sorry, or even worse...to think that he just shouldn't be standing there. Yes, it is an accident... accidents happen, but for me, the proper way to react is to show some sympathy (trying to help if it's a bad injury or something), AND say I'm sorry.

[mamiof5]

I'm sorry you have to deal with situations like this! Hope he apologizes and you both can move on.

[kiwik]

Well since the door has a hole in it maybe you could take it off until he can pay to replace/fix it. I can understand where he is coming from - I have a real problem using please as to me it implies I am asking a special favour (kind of cajoling) which seems silly when asking for the salt. I always say thank you though but a lot of people are offended when I forget to say please so I do try. But you do need to say sorry when someone gets hurt whether you were at fault or not. I apologise when someone crashes into me. I assume you have explained that it is 'sorry you were hurt' not 'sorry I hurt you'?

 

Hope tomorrow is better.

Edited July 3, 2016 by kiwik

[DawnM]

I'm not sure I understand your line of thinking. I'd never consider illogical to apologize for an accident. If on accident I turn around, bump into my ds and knock him with my elbow... (for example), there's NO WAY I wouldn't say sorry, or even worse...to think that he just shouldn't be standing there. Yes, it is an accident... accidents happen, but for me, the proper way to react is to show some sympathy (trying to help if it's a bad injury or something), AND say I'm sorry.

 

Yes, that would certainly be the neurotypical response.  It is not an Aspie's response.  It just isn't.

[luuknam]

Yes, that would certainly be the neurotypical response.  It is not an Aspie's response.  It just isn't.

 

However, plenty of Aspies have learned just fine that they're supposed to say 'sorry', even if it's an accident, and teaching your kid that is part of preparing them for adulthood, where they have to live in a world where everyone expects them to say 'sorry', even if it was an accident.

[ktgrok]

 

It does sound like what happened before the finger-pinching had already pushed him over the edge though, so it was not the best time to expect lots of empathy. And 16yos are often not the most thoughtful people, NT or Aspie. No real advice there.

 

Nothing had happened. He just always shuts the door in my face rather than wait until I turn away or whatever. I guess in that respect I should have expected it. And I acknowledged I wasn't upset he squished my finger, but that he didn't apologize. I even acknowledged that ettiquitte isn't about logic, and even if it doesn't seem like it makes sense, it is how society works. Usually that will get him to understand. Not this time. 

 

I think he probably DID feel bad for squishing it, but then was worried I'd be angry so got defensive. That's my best guess. 

Hoping a good night's sleep gets him in a better mood. He will spend the day cleaning his room and such, and he still needs to apologize. 

[DawnM]

However, plenty of Aspies have learned just fine that they're supposed to say 'sorry', even if it's an accident, and teaching your kid that is part of preparing them for adulthood, where they have to live in a world where everyone expects them to say 'sorry', even if it was an accident.

 

 

 

 You CAN teach social mannerisms over time, but demanding it in this particular situation (IMO) will only mean that he is doing it to get something, not because he means it, and it could produce further resentment.

 

My Aspie has ONLY learned some of these things through therapy, through not being with me when I am angry or demanding that he do it to get something back.

 

Believe me, we have been through it.  My Aspie has gone 3 days without eating when I said, "YOU WILL EAT X before you get anything else."  He just didn't eat.

 

He has also sat for 9 solid hours in the living room when I said, "You WILL say you are sorry for your behavior or you can't get up."

 

AND, it produced more anger and resentment towards us when we did that.  

 

The RELATIONSHIP is more important than being right.   I have learned that.  The right actions can only come when I wait for him and me to calm down and then discuss, sometimes in front of the therapist, with the therapist helping him in his responses and me in my responses.

 

Now, all of the above is completely and totally different with my neurotypical kids.  They get it.  All of it.  They will eat X, they will say sorry without even 5 minutes of a time out, etc.....

Edited July 3, 2016 by DawnM

[ktgrok]

I don't get A) going beyond telling him what could be said differently; B) expecting anything other than resistance when backing an Aspie into a corner. It would never work here- ever. If I want to reach my Aspie, I wait until the timing is right and always give him a way to save face or exit without pressure. No matter how many times we might wish the child's brain were wired differently, it just isn't. Life is so much easier when I learn to speak my Apsie's language first, and then begin to teach him mine. 

 

Usually I do do this, but when you are in pain it's harder to keep in mind. I did, once my finger stopped hurting, walk away, then tell him that I get that it was an accident, and that it doesn't seem logical to apologize for an accident, but that's how the world works, you still say you are sorry whenever you hurt another person, even if it is an accident. Even if it is their own fault. Normally, when I phrase it that way, agreeing with him that it may not make sense, but it's just what people expect, he will go for it. Not this time. He was already too defensive. 

 

But the only way to NOT have made him defensive would have been to not act like it hurt when my finger got squished and it did REALLY hurt. The second that happened he was already into defensive mode. 

[ktgrok]

I'm not sure I understand your line of thinking. I'd never consider illogical to apologize for an accident. If on accident I turn around, bump into my ds and knock him with my elbow... (for example), there's NO WAY I wouldn't say sorry, or even worse...to think that he just shouldn't be standing there. Yes, it is an accident... accidents happen, but for me, the proper way to react is to show some sympathy (trying to help if it's a bad injury or something), AND say I'm sorry.

 

I actually used that exact example. 

 

Yeah, I'm sorry, but "social lubricant" is exactly what etiquette is, and it is there for a reason. If you hurt someone, you apologize. You might be more "sorry it happened" rather than "sorry for what you did", but you always apologize. If I accidentally hurt someone I'm saying sorry. Every time. When he is out at college, or in a job, if he steps on someone's foot he needs to know to say sorry, not say "well, why was your foot there?!"  

 

Social lubricants exist for a reason. 

[ktgrok]

Well since the door has a hole in it maybe you could take it off until he can pay to replace/fix it. I can understand where he is coming from - I . I assume you have explained that it is 'sorry you were hurt' not 'sorry I hurt you'?

 

 

 

You know, I THOUGHT I was clear on this, but maybe I wasn't. This is probably the most helpful thing so far! I'll make sure to do that, because that he may be able to wrap his mind around. Thank you. 

 

And you know, even my husband I found I had to explain that often I say "sorry" about something that isn't my fault. When he has a bad day at work I say , "I'm sorry." He used to ask 'why, it's not your fault" and I'd explain I'm sorry it happened to him, not sorry for doing something. Maybe this is just a guy thing???  I'll definitely explain this to him today. 

 

I think, now, that he was also overtired. He was up late the night before, but forgot to take the trash out so I'd woken him early to get it out and he never goes back to bed afterward, so that might be part of the problem. Sigh. 

 

We've actually been getting along a LOT better lately, but partly because I'vd dropped my expectations. This one I won't drop. I think it is important that he learn to apologize. 

[ktgrok]

However, plenty of Aspies have learned just fine that they're supposed to say 'sorry', even if it's an accident, and teaching your kid that is part of preparing them for adulthood, where they have to live in a world where everyone expects them to say 'sorry', even if it was an accident.

 

Right. I no longer expect him to FEEL sorry. I get that his brain doesn't work that way. But just like I can learn Latin or strange foreign customs when visiting a place, he can learn some of our social customs, even if they aren't natural. He's learned a lot of them, and often people don't think he has Aspergers at all actually. But sometimes that is worse, because then stuff like this makes him look like a jerk, not someone with special needs. 

 

He doesn't have to mean it, but he needs to learn what to say, just like it was a foreign language. 

[luuknam]

 You CAN teach social mannerisms over time, but demanding it in this particular situation (IMO) will only mean that he is doing it to get something, not because he means it, and it could produce further resentment.

 

Okay, I thought you were saying that Aspies just don't react that way, end of story, so don't bother. I misunderstood.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I am going to tell you what has made the most difference for us.

 

Therapy and me changing my parenting style.

 

A very logical answer, and what would work with my neurotypical kids, is completely lost on my Aspie.

 

Between the group therapy, the individual therapy, and the therapist telling me how to change, he has changed. Not completely, he is still Aspie, will always be an Aspie, but the outbursts are far fewer, he has calmed down, etc....

 

But it takes the right therapist, one who truly understands Asperger's.

Agreeing.

[catz]

I'm not sure I understand your line of thinking. I'd never consider illogical to apologize for an accident. If on accident I turn around, bump into my ds and knock him with my elbow... (for example), there's NO WAY I wouldn't say sorry, or even worse...to think that he just shouldn't be standing there. Yes, it is an accident... accidents happen, but for me, the proper way to react is to show some sympathy (trying to help if it's a bad injury or something), AND say I'm sorry.

 

I absolutely think it's the right thing to do.  It's a social convention that some people just do and some people need to be taught to have that response.  It reminds of the thank you note thread.  It is a social convention to acknowledge and thank for a gift.  Many aspies need to be taught things like this and don't just pick it up.  

 

I don't think therapy or some sort of social skills class are necessarily out of line.  If this is a case where he'd apologize to anyone else and not for mom, that seems more like teen obstinence.  Which is a different issue.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sounds difficult!

 

 

[Tammyla]

You might try finding a way for him to express empathy for an injured person without taking responsibility for another persons mistake.   He could as a question like, are your okay?  Or his apology could be something like...I'm sorry your fingers was squised.  My thoughts would be to help and equip him in the social conventions outside the home.

 

 

(I get that you want an apology and from a non-aspie it would be easy for both of you.)  It's pretty normal for guys not to apologize like girls imo and experience.  

[eternalsummer]

I dunno, I can see how it would suck to live with someone who didn't do the things we sort of expect other adults/semi-adults to do as social lubricants.

 

I just think it would suck a lot more to live while having to constantly adjust oneself, even at home with people who love you, to do these unnatural, artificial things that don't come naturally.  It would be even more annoying if these other people insisted that you do the things you felt were wrong/unnecessary in order to get something they had control over - of course you'd do it, because you want the thing they have control over, and maybe they could even convince you that doing the things was important even if it made no sense to you because it does make sense to everyone else - but I just think it would be so hard.

 

It would be like if your husband constantly insisted that you touch your nose every time you passed him in the hallway.  If you failed to do it, he'd yell at you and say "no food until you remember to touch your nose!!!!!" - you'd start touching your nose, but it would put separation between you on your end.

 

Of course, if you didn't learn to touch your nose, it would put separation between you on your husband's end, as the nose touching would be something completely normal and expected to him and your *not* doing it would be a sign of some abnormalcy.

 

But still, I can see how it would be harder from your son's POV than from yours, honestly.  You could as easily say you hate your social conditioning as you could say that you hate the way his brain works.  

[ktgrok]

I dunno, I can see how it would suck to live with someone who didn't do the things we sort of expect other adults/semi-adults to do as social lubricants.

 

I just think it would suck a lot more to live while having to constantly adjust oneself, even at home with people who love you, to do these unnatural, artificial things that don't come naturally.  It would be even more annoying if these other people insisted that you do the things you felt were wrong/unnecessary in order to get something they had control over - of course you'd do it, because you want the thing they have control over, and maybe they could even convince you that doing the things was important even if it made no sense to you because it does make sense to everyone else - but I just think it would be so hard.

 

It would be like if your husband constantly insisted that you touch your nose every time you passed him in the hallway.  If you failed to do it, he'd yell at you and say "no food until you remember to touch your nose!!!!!" - you'd start touching your nose, but it would put separation between you on your end.

 

Of course, if you didn't learn to touch your nose, it would put separation between you on your husband's end, as the nose touching would be something completely normal and expected to him and your *not* doing it would be a sign of some abnormalcy.

 

But still, I can see how it would be harder from your son's POV than from yours, honestly.  You could as easily say you hate your social conditioning as you could say that you hate the way his brain works.  

 

And if it was something ONLY I expected him to do, I would agree. But hard or not, to succeed and have a life in society, he will have to learn to bend to societal expectations. Otherwise, things like having a job, a relationship, friends, etc will be impossible. It is my job to make sure he can live independently if at all possible, have good relationships with his peers, etc. Making it easier on him now, or on our relationship, would mean making his relationships with others harder or impossible. Trust me, I'd LOVE to just not deal with this, but I see it as doing him a disservice later on. 

 

He has now apologized. We discussed again that an apology doesn't = admission of guilt, and you can be sorry it happened to sa person even without it being your fault. He seemed to accept that for any other situation BUT this one, and it does seem at this point it is because it is ME more than anything. Which is someone heartening, because although it hurts my feelings it means that maybe he'd do better with a coworker or friend, which is my goal. 

 

We also discussed it as a societal expectation. He said he could say it, but he wouldn't mean it. I said I know that. I don't expect him to mean it. I would LOVE if he did, because as the person who gave birth to him, raised him, and and has dedicated my life to keeping him healthy and safe it would be nice if he felt a shred of empathy towards me, but either way, I just need him to make the effort to say it, even if he doesn't feel it. So he did. 

 

Now he is cleaning his room, thank heavens. My house literally smells because of his room. He's started drinking more milk, and has soured half full glasses of it in there, plus empty protein shake containers that also smell, plus some damp towels that have soured. Ugh. 

[ktgrok]

In nice happenings though, I had an elderly woman at church tell me what a wonderful mother I am, after watching me with the two littles at Mass this morning. I've finally learned that my children's behavior is NOT a reflection on me as a parent, but it is still nice to hear after having such struggles with the big kid. The littles are such easy kids in comparison. Although, sometimes I think an angry honey badger would be easy in comparison. 

 

I love my oldest so much, but man, he stresses me out. 

[mamiof5]

Yes, that would certainly be the neurotypical response. It is not an Aspie's response. It just isn't.

I don't know a thing or two about Aspies, so I can't say anything about it. However, the other poster had said something like "it is illogical to apologize for an accident", and way more about it just being kind of a "social lubrication" type of thing...and I just can't agree with that statement. I totally understand that for Aspies this is something they have to learn, but the post I was responding to didn't sound directed only to Aspies, it sounded in general. If I'm wrong I apologize, but that's how it sounded to me.

[Lecka]

Since he is underresponsive (if this is the right word) to pain, I wonder if he is underresponsive to smells also.

 

I think it is another area where he might need it explained that it doesn't smell bad to him, but it does smell bad to some people.

 

Just mentioning it if it might be possible.

 

I have a relative who has almost no sense of smell and does not understand the point of deodorant, and does not really have a sense of "can't forget to put on deodorant," so it is forgotten sometimes.

 

I like to do room sprays sometimes, too, and I have learned that I can spray as much as I want if I am the only one who will be home for a while, but I am spraying 5 times more than most people can tolerate.

 

I have also had times when I don't realize the kitchen trash smells, and my husband smells it immediately. So now I know certain things probably smell, and should be rinsed or taken to the garage trash, and I know kitchen trash should be taken out daily. But it is not because I can smell it, though I have smelled kitchen trash sometimes and I know it is possible.

 

And I know I have a better sense of smell than my relative.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I understand :grouphug:. It never helped that mine doesn't react to pain so he really doesn't get why others do. He really doesn't get physical or emotional distress. It's all flat for him 😕. I'm sorry he is being a pill.

[poppy]

I dunno, I can see how it would suck to live with someone who didn't do the things we sort of expect other adults/semi-adults to do as social lubricants.

 

I just think it would suck a lot more to live while having to constantly adjust oneself, even at home with people who love you, to do these unnatural, artificial things that don't come naturally.  It would be even more annoying if these other people insisted that you do the things you felt were wrong/unnecessary in order to get something they had control over - of course you'd do it, because you want the thing they have control over, and maybe they could even convince you that doing the things was important even if it made no sense to you because it does make sense to everyone else - but I just think it would be so hard.

 

It would be like if your husband constantly insisted that you touch your nose every time you passed him in the hallway.  If you failed to do it, he'd yell at you and say "no food until you remember to touch your nose!!!!!" - you'd start touching your nose, but it would put separation between you on your end.

 

Of course, if you didn't learn to touch your nose, it would put separation between you on your husband's end, as the nose touching would be something completely normal and expected to him and your *not* doing it would be a sign of some abnormalcy.

 

But still, I can see how it would be harder from your son's POV than from yours, honestly.  You could as easily say you hate your social conditioning as you could say that you hate the way his brain works.  

 

All that is true, but, the kids still do have to learn social conditioning to some degree, unless they are pretty severely disabled and won't be able to fit in socially as adults.  This is why I think neurodivergent kids are heroes.  They have to work harder than everyone else just to learn to get by day to day.  And neurodivergent adults, too. I am married to an engineer, I work in IT, I know it's a lifelong endeavor. 

 

[PeterPan]

Usually I do do this, but when you are in pain it's harder to keep in mind. I did, once my finger stopped hurting, walk away, then tell him that I get that it was an accident, and that it doesn't seem logical to apologize for an accident, but that's how the world works, you still say you are sorry whenever you hurt another person, even if it is an accident. Even if it is their own fault. Normally, when I phrase it that way, agreeing with him that it may not make sense, but it's just what people expect, he will go for it. Not this time. He was already too defensive. 

 

But the only way to NOT have made him defensive would have been to not act like it hurt when my finger got squished and it did REALLY hurt. The second that happened he was already into defensive mode. 

 

Have you actually tried working with a BCBA/behaviorist and getting help?  Because I can tell you they *would* have had more options for you.  You could have gone through an extreme OUCH reaction (so it was very obvious it hurt you, even though it didn't hurt him), then said "That hurt me a lot.  I need a break," and walked away. Because the policy is when you hurt people, they don't want to be around you, natural consequence.  

 

To me, to be 16 and hypo-responsive on pain and not yet REALIZE how different he is is going to cause some serious social problems.  You're already saying he's so challenging to work with.  How will anyone ELSE want to?  How will he have the social skills to hold a job?  Some serious intervention on this would really help.  DawnM is very right that there's a lot of growth that could occur there with dedicated instruction.  

 

Maybe when you started down this path there weren't as many resources as there are now.  Maybe there are some options you have now that *weren't* there 5 or 10 years ago when you were first getting him diagnosed?  Might be timely to look or look afresh.  Social Thinking.com materials, a BCBA, something.  There has been an EXPLOSION of stuff in the last 5 years.  You can outsource it, get insurance to pay for it, whatever.

[PeterPan]

Since he is underresponsive (if this is the right word) to pain, I wonder if he is underresponsive to smells also.

 

I think it is another area where he might need it explained that it doesn't smell bad to him, but it does smell bad to some people.

 

 

Yes, you are correct.  He may not smell it, or what he does smell he may interpret differently, as sort of homey or peaceful or natural.  

 

This is all stuff to outsource to a behaviorist, so they can have a rational conversation about it and work through it.  It would take time, probably the whole school year, but they could get through this stuff.

[PeterPan]

And if it was something ONLY I expected him to do, I would agree. But hard or not, to succeed and have a life in society, he will have to learn to bend to societal expectations. Otherwise, things like having a job, a relationship, friends, etc will be impossible. It is my job to make sure he can live independently if at all possible, have good relationships with his peers, etc. Making it easier on him now, or on our relationship, would mean making his relationships with others harder or impossible. Trust me, I'd LOVE to just not deal with this, but I see it as doing him a disservice later on. 

 

 

Bingo.  But doing it with a behaviorist might be more effective.  Our behaviorist knows *just the thing* to say to get things to click in ds' brain.  I can email her with something he's doing, and she can come in with a book, games (yes, even for high schoolers), etc. to get him thinking about it, really thinking.  Right now you WANT that to happen, you WANT him to understand, but you're working without any of the new, amazing tools!  Of course I'm saying that and I'm not in your closet to know what you've got/tried.  I'm just thinking there might be more out there.  At the training I went to they had a whole table of materials for high school level and adults.  There's lots of new stuff out there.  Our behaviorist comes in with even more things.  They could bridge that for you and make happen what you're realizing you want to have happen.

Edited July 4, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[theelfqueen]

All teens (NT or otherwise) can be so thoughtless of others and self centered.... it's already frustrating! Add in his additional challenges -- woah, mama! Rough times!

:grouphug:

[Alicia64]

I know you know, but I'll say it anyway: he probably does feel terrible deep down inside, but he's feeling on the defensive --  which he can't tolerate. He's feeling "in the wrong" and stupid himself.

 

So he's lashing out at you because he can't handle what he accidentally did.

 

I would have responded like you did, but if I wasn't in a ton of pain I might have said, "It was just an accident. You didn't mean to do that, I know. You never hurt me on purpose. But, dang, it hurts."

 

I might have added: "you just wanted privacy, which is normal, we all need our privacy. Off to make cookies, come down when you want some." (Startling them by taking the onus off of what just happens seems to really help.)

 

I find that the Aspie people in my life don't respond at all well to "you should apologize!" And they respond really well to desserts. Sometimes. . . mine apologize later after the sting of I-did-something-bad wears off. (The whole: they're not empathetic thing is silly. They're very sensitive. Again, I know you know.)

 

But it's very, very, very hard -- I know. Married to one. Having tons of fun over here every day. Year after year.

 

Alley