Family drama - what to do?

[naturegirl]

As I read back over my post, I realize it is quite long and rambling. Sorry about that. I'm just looking for honest opinions about this situation. If I'm in the wrong, don't worry about hurting my feelings. I want to know both what you would do and what you think is reasonable to expect in this situation.

 

My parents divorced when I was young, and my mom, sister and I have been always had a good relationship. I live in a different city, several states away from my mom and sister (they live in the same city) and go home twice a year for a visit. 

 

Last January (as in January 2015) my sister left her wife. It was a big surprise to us. My sister hadn't mentioned any problems to either my mom or I. In fact, up until the time my sister left, she and her wife were actively trying to buy a house together. Apparently she and her wife had been having problems for a long time, they tried counseling the summer before and it wasn't successful. My sister wasn't in love any more and wanted out. 

 

They have one son together. My sister's ex is the biological mother, though my sister legally adopted her son shortly after he was born. A very angry and drawn-out custody battle ensued and my sister has been understandably very stressed out by the situation. It took over a year for the custody ruling to be made and my sister ended up only getting her son for five nights every two weeks instead of the 50/50 custody she was seeking. She was crushed by the outcome. The financial stuff was just recently resolved and the divorce was just finalized last month.

 

So that is the back story, now onto the issue at hand. A week after she left her wife, my sister told us she was dating someone new. We were once again very surprised. One week we thought she was happily married and now she is dating someone else. She says that she wasn't cheating on her wife, but I don't see how that's possible at least in thought if not in action. I guess it depends on how you define cheating.

 

Last spring (a couple months after my sister left her wife) my sister, mom, mom's best friend (in reality more than a best friend, but no one has every said anything official), and I made plans to go to the beach during my summer visit with my sister's son and my son. We rented a cabin for two nights. A couple weeks before the trip, my sister asked if her girlfriend and her girlfriend's youngest daughter could come along on the trip. We said we'd rather just keep this trip for family. My sister sent us a long email about how she hadn't been expressing herself clearly, but new girlfriend was the woman she planned to spend the rest of her life with and she would really like new girlfriend to be included on this trip so we could get to know her. Once again we were all shocked. They'd been dating for six months, the divorce wasn't even close to finalized yet and my mom had only met the girlfriend once. We still said no but said we'd love to meet the girlfriend and get to know her better at another point during my visit. 

 

I did end up meeting the new girlfriend one afternoon last summer. My sister and I made plans to go hiking and she brought the new girlfriend along. She is a very nice woman and easy to get along with. Girlfriend actually has four children ranging in age from 5-14, though I didn't meet them that trip. She shares custody with her ex-husband. The older two children are actually his with a previous girlfriend, but my sister's girlfriend was their mother from the time they were young. I have no idea what happened to the biological mother, but she is not in the picture.

 

Sometime last fall my sister moved in with her girlfriend. They live in a four bedroom house, so her son, when he is with my sister, shares a room with the girlfriend's youngest daughter who is the same age as my nephew (both 4 years old at the time). Up until then she was living with my mom, but spent most of her time at her girlfriend's house.

 

Fast forward to last Christmas. I posted about this situation last Christmas when there was a bunch of last minute changes to our Christmas celebration. We had planned on celebrating an early Christmas with my mom and her friend (she has been included in family Christmas for the past 10 or 12 years. She has been a part of my mom's life for at least 20 years), my sister, her girlfriend and my sister's son, me, my husband and our son. This is when were were going to do our main gift exchange. A day or two later we planned another day for girlfriend and her four kids to come over and meet everyone. We planned dinner, games and a small gift exchange for that day as well.

 

My mom is a big planner. She buys gifts many months ahead of time and had the celebrations lined up moths in advance. A couple weeks before Christmas my sister says that she does't want separate celebrations, but instead wants to do them all together. My mom says she doesn't want to do that. My sister says if that is the case, the second celebration with the girlfriend's kids is cancelled, girlfriend isn't coming to the first celebration either. My sister says she isn't sure if she and her son are going to come either. Mom asks if she is sure and if so should she go ahead and start returning gifts. My sister says yes, she is sure. Then a week before our Christmas celebration my sister says it is back on and that her girlfriend and all her kids are coming. Even though my mom already said no to this, she didn't want to keep fighting about Christmas, and just agreed. We all had to scramble to buy presents last minute. My sister thought Christmas went great, but my mom and her friend are still very upset by the way everything went down.

 

That was the only day my sister came over to visit for the entire two weeks I was in town. In the past she always made time to comes over every day she was free and brought her son too so the cousins can hang out. My son kept asking when his cousin was coming over to play. 

 

My sister and I have talked in the mean time and she has told me how she doesn't understand what my mom is thinking and that she had hoped and expected my mom to become another grandmother to her girlfriend's kids. I told her that I don't think mom is thinking along those lines and that she needs to decide if that is a deal breaker and that if it is then she needs to clearly communicate that and give my mom a chance to respond. My sister also complained that my mom wasn't making an effort to get to know them. I told my sister if she wanted my mom to get to know them she needs to invite my mom over to make that happen. My sister invited my mom over once this spring. She declined my mom's invitation when my mom wanted to take my sister out for her birthday (this is something they have done every year).

 

This summer is my mom's 70th birthday party. My mom has been planning a party for a year. Only adults are invited to my mom's party. Both my sister and her girlfriend were invited though girlfriend declined the invitation. I will be home for two weeks both for the party and to visit with the family. This trip I made plans with my sister ahead of time so that I was sure I would get to see her more than just at my mom's birthday party. We are going over to her house for the Fourth of July then again for my nephew's birthday party. We also planned a day at the pool.

 

A couple days ago my sister texted my mom and told her that if she wasn't going to buy birthday presents for her girlfriend's kids on their birthdays, then she couldn't bring a present for my nephew at his party either. My mom has of course already bought several presents. My mom wrote back asking why events that were suppose to be happy (Christmas and birthdays) were being turned into such contentious events. Because she didn't know the girlfriends kids very well yet and didn't have a close relationship with them, she was't planning to get them gifts. She did send each one who has had a birthday since Christmas a birthday card. She agreed to not give her grandson any gifts if that is what my sister wants and to not attend the party if that is what my sister wants. I just got the invitation to my nephew's birthday party today. My mom and her friend are both invited. My mom's friend and I had not been told whether we can bring gifts or not.

 

My sister has been very clear that her priority is to make sure her son feels stable in their new family with her girlfriend and children. She wants stability in his life and feels this is the best way to provide it. My mom and her friend feel very strongly that moving out of her old house and moving in with someone new so quickly after leaving her wife was a strong contributing factor in my sister not getting 50/50 custody. It's hard to say what motivated the decision. These things aren't explained when the decision is made. It could be that the man evaluating my sister and her ex as parents was always going to side with the biological mother or it could be that my sister's living situation made a big difference. We will never know.

 

So here we are. My mom's friend is very angry with my sister as she's the shoulder my mom has been crying on every time my sister hurts her with a new email or phone call. My mom is a bit angry but more sad and confused than anything else. She is really close with her grandson (and until recently my sister). The situation is bad enough with my sister that my mom has made a deliberate effort to keep communication open with my sister's ex, even though they were never close, because she is afraid my sister is going to cut off contact and she still wants to be able to see her grandson if that hapens. The ex recently contacted my mom saying that my sister told her not to talk to my mom anymore. When my mom talked to my sister, she told my mom she didn't want her talking with her ex.

 

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. Honestly, I'm clueless about these type of situations and I don't know what is expected of me. My sister is not mad at me and we are still talking. I'm trying to make an effort to get to know the girlfriend and her kids, but I'm only in town a couple weeks a year. And with my sister just not coming over to my mom's house at all last Christmas it's hard to get to know everyone. The girlfriend's birthday is close to my sister's so this last spring I sent them a joint gift. It didn't occur to me to ask when the kids' birthdays were.

 

If you've made it through this, thank you. What do you think? What is expected in these circumstances? I always kind of assumed that each family figured it out on their own, but my mom and sister both seem to have definite ideas of how things are suppose to go. I think my sister has this picture in her head of how things should be, but hasn't communicated that picture to everyone else. She just gets mad after the fact when that picture doesn't come to fruition. But maybe I'm not being fair. Maybe her expectations are realistic and we've been dropping the ball by not meeting them. I honestly don't know. Thoughts?

Only adults are invited to my mom's birthday party. Both my sister and her girlfriend were invited though girlfriend declined the invitation. 

[hornblower]

I think I'd just invite everyone and make everyone welcome as much as possible. Your sister has a new person in her life. Welcome her.  Kids should get gifts - even if it's just small symbolic things. 

 

I think it's hard not to judge people but really, you just don't know. She obviously has not been sharing things - maybe she felt she really couldn't.  My tendency is to stay out of the middle, suggest people see professional counselors, and just try to be together in a friendly supportive way without getting sucked into the drama. Easier said than done but you sound like a loving close family & I'm sure you can weather this storm. 

 

 

[Kiara.I]

I think the problem is that BOTH your mom and your sister have clear pictures in their heads of "how things should be" and those pictures don't match, and for reasons that totally escape me your mother is unwilling to realize that.  Your sister has figured out that the pictures don't match, and explains clearly to your mom that if she's not treating the new gf's children as "hers" then she can't treat her grandson that way either.  She's communicating clearly.  Your mother, meanwhile, has a very clear picture in her head of how things should be and won't change it.

 

On the other hand, sister did ask for plans to be changed at the last minute to suit them, and didn't accept graciously when the answer was "No."

Your mother, then, refused to change her plans to adapt in any way to what the new "couple" wanted, and in fact threatened to RETURN GIFTS if the celebration were not held the way she wanted it.  Did I understand that correctly?  Yikes!  That seems...well, appalling, really.  By all means say, "No", but for heaven's sake, you give the gifts another time!

 

Now, your mother is free to not adapt her plans.  But your sister is equally free to ask her to.

 

So to sum up:

Your sister has a new lifetime partner and expects her to be accepted as such, with her children.  Your mother, shocked at the speed of this transition, drew back.  Sister feels that her choices have been rejected and is backing away.

 

So they're both backing away from unmet expectations and trying to protect themselves emotionally, thereby increasing the drama in each interaction.

 

What's expected of you?  Either stay the heck out of it, or point out to BOTH of them that they're seriously harming themselves and some basic communication and manners would go a long way.  Sister shouldn't ask for last-minute plan changes, and when she does should accept a "No" gracefully.  Mother should bend a little and shouldn't make ultimata.

 

And I have to say...  Your mother lives in the same town, it's been over a year since the first announcement was made, and your mother still doesn't "know them very well."  Er...what is she intending to wait for?

[naturegirl]

On the other hand, sister did ask for plans to be changed at the last minute to suit them, and didn't accept graciously when the answer was "No."

Your mother, then, refused to change her plans to adapt in any way to what the new "couple" wanted, and in fact threatened to RETURN GIFTS if the celebration were not held the way she wanted it.  Did I understand that correctly?  Yikes!  That seems...well, appalling, really.  By all means say, "No", but for heaven's sake, you give the gifts another time!

 

So to sum up:

Your sister has a new lifetime partner and expects her to be accepted as such, with her children.  Your mother, shocked at the speed of this transition, drew back.  Sister feels that her choices have been rejected and is backing away.

 

So they're both backing away from unmet expectations and trying to protect themselves emotionally, thereby increasing the drama in each interaction.

 

What's expected of you?  Either stay the heck out of it, or point out to BOTH of them that they're seriously harming themselves and some basic communication and manners would go a long way.  Sister shouldn't ask for last-minute plan changes, and when she does should accept a "No" gracefully.  Mother should bend a little and shouldn't make ultimata.

 

And I have to say...  Your mother lives in the same town, it's been over a year since the first announcement was made, and your mother still doesn't "know them very well."  Er...what is she intending to wait for?

 

My mom didn't want to return gifts. She actually put a lot of thought into what to get my sister's girlfriend. My sister said that they wouldn't be coming over for Christmas. Mom didn't want to be stuck with a bunch of stuff she had no use for so she was double checking with my sister to be sure they weren't coming before she started returning things. I think the understanding on both sides was there wasn't going to be another time they got together to exchange gifts. 

 

I completely agree with you that my mom needs to put in a much bigger effort. I think she is upset by how things went in the beginning and is being stubborn by refusing to budge. She also has her friend discouraging her from making more of an effort because she is still angry at my sister. It's one of the reasons I made the plans for Fourth of July. My mom wouldn't have invited all of the girlfriend's family. But she will go with me over to their house. I'm hoping if they spend more time together things will start to get a little better. I am losing hope though.

 

As much as I don't want to get caught in the middle, my relationship with my sister is suffering as well if they refuse to spend time together. Usually we all hang out together. Now it seems like I have to schedule separate time with each of them. I want to try to fix this if I can.

[kitten18]

But just because she wasn't going to see them Christmas Day doesn't mean that she still couldn't have given them the gifts.

 

Does she see your children on their birthdays? Does she still buy them gifts?

 

Eta- she wouldn't have been able to drop the gifts off sometime? Or mail them?

Edited June 20, 2016 by kitten18

[Kiara.I]

My mom didn't want to return gifts. She actually put a lot of thought into what to get my sister's girlfriend. My sister said that they wouldn't be coming over for Christmas. Mom didn't want to be stuck with a bunch of stuff she had no use for so she was double checking with my sister to be sure they weren't coming before she started returning things. I think the understanding on both sides was there wasn't going to be another time they got together to exchange gifts. 

 

I don't understand what getting together another time to exchange gifts has to do with anything.   You drop them off on the doorstep!  Gifts are gifts TO the person.  They're not "for an occasion at which they must be opened and if you miss that then there are no gifts."

 

I bet your sister heard that as, "And we're taking them all back if you don't do what we want!"    I would have.

[naturegirl]

I don't understand what getting together another time to exchange gifts has to do with anything.   You drop them off on the doorstep!  Gifts are gifts TO the person.  They're not "for an occasion at which they must be opened and if you miss that then there are no gifts."

 

I bet your sister heard that as, "And we're taking them all back if you don't do what we want!"    I would have.

 

You may be right. I hadn't thought about it like that.

[bolt.]

I don't think you have a role in this situation at all. As 'auntie from elsewhere' you aren't expected to be very significant to your nephew or your new de-facto nieces/nephews, therefore your duties are quite light.

 

Your sister expects you to treat all your non-bio nephews and nieces in a generally equitable way. She does not want you favouring one nephew above others. Even though your relationship with your long-term nephew that you aquired through her official marriage is a bit more 'natural' in feeling, she expects you to be a grown up and understand that children who live as one family need to be treated similarly in order to feel like they all belong. Substantively, all of these children have come to belong to your sister through your sister's partners. They are not different to her, some are just more recent and slightly less official than others.

 

Obviously, she expects the same effort towards fairness and kindness from her mother -- but it's a lot harder to local-grandmother the new children than it is to distant-auntie them. Your job should be easy. If you do something nice for one, do something nice for everyone. No issues.

 

If you want to advise your mother, advise her that when one's child picks up a child and calls him/her one's own -- by any method, at any speed, in any relationship, with anyone -- that child should become the recipient of the care of the family... Because children need much more love and kindness than they will ever get, and they don't make the choices that land them in the home-and-family contexts where they find themselves. In a home where 5 children live, having a doting grandma for only one of them hurts all of them: even the dote-ee. She needs to buy some easy-peasy gift cards and make sure there are enough 'presents' to go around for everyone to have a happy birthday.

 

Christmas too should be an occasion to welcome the chimney sweep and the street urchin -- not a day to draw lines around which children have enough of a longstanding relationship to be welcomed to celebrate. That sounds hard to say, and it will be harder for her to try and do it (if she even wants to do it) but it's the right thing to do. Kindness to children is NOT too much to ask of her.

[naturegirl]

Christmas too should be an occasion to welcome the chimney sweep and the street urchin -- not a day to draw lines around which children have enough of a longstanding relationship to be welcomed to celebrate. That sounds hard to say, and it will be harder for her to try and do it (if she even wants to do it) but it's the right thing to do. Kindness to children is NOT too much to ask of her.

 

This I totally agree with. I feel like my mom's disagreement is with my sister and the kids are the ones getting hurt. Although it was a huge scramble for me to buy gifts for four extra kids last Christmas (my mom begrudgingly bought them each something and my mom's friend flat out refused. Since we always buy 4-5 things for each person, I couldn't let it stand with just getting them one thing each. I ended up buying them each four things, so I bought 16 gifts in one week for kids I had never met - thank got for Amazon 2-day shipping) and I was upset with my sister, I couldn't see punishing the kids for it. It's certainly in no way their fault. 

[Haiku]

If you've made it through this, thank you. What do you think? What is expected in these circumstances? 

 

I think your sister is acting defensively and immaturely, but I also think that if she considers the girlfriend and the girlfriend's kids her family, then it is your mother's obligation to honor that and treat them like family. It doesn't really matter how well they know one another. When I adopted my kids, I expected our families to treat them like family even though they didn't know them well (or at all).

 

I think your mom and her friend need to accept that trying to force their way isn't going to work.

 

Were I you, I would treat all children the same and otherwise stay out of it.

 

And I think threatening to return gifts is, frankly, horrible. She didn't want to be stuck with things she couldn't use? Then she could have dropped them off. Whether she meant it to be vindictive or not, it sounds extremely vindictive.

Edited June 20, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator

[bolt.]

I think 4 gifts per person is a habit of few-children families. Probably best to go with one each from now on. Or one "real" and additional tokens (chocolate, small gift cards, sticking stuffers) to make the transition.

 

The logistics of last Christmas were hard, but both your mom and your sister contributed to that. For the future, getting regular gifts for an expected occasion, for kids you've met a little... It should be easier.

 

(I feel for your sister's gf. I sure wouldn't tolerate bringing my kids to a second Christmas event at my de-facto in laws for 'second class' family members while my gf went to the primary event. I'd rather do nothing if we weren't yet family enough for the real thing -- wouldn't you? I also would not celebrate my not-quite-MIL's birthday party while she slighted my kids' birthdays. We'd all be advising a woman in that position to politely decline and try not to take it personally, right?)

Edited June 20, 2016 by bolt.

[emmaluv+2more]

 I also would not celebrate my not-quite-MIL's birthday party while she slighted my kids' birthdays. We'd all be advising a woman in that position to politely decline and try not to take it personally, right?)

 

I don't know about this.  I have celebrated other people's birthdays who didn't celebrate mine or my children's, including my sister's.  She doesn't always show up for my kids' birthday celebrations, but I try to show up for hers and/or her not-quite stepchildren's birthdays.  Sounds kind of petty to me.

 

OP, I think all families have very different dynamics and expectations.  I would think it would do your mom and your sister a lot of good to sit down and discuss what they want to see happen with these new family members.  I hardly think continuing to exclude them is worth the stress and trauma it is obviously causing everyone involved, but I am not part of your family :)

[Anne in CA]

I do think your mom is a little inflexible, but that's often how older people are. Most people do try to accommodate an older person who has a hard time handling change.

 

A divorce is a lot of change. I am sympathetic to your mom on one hand because it is hard to watch family dynamics change so quickly. Dating and moving in with a new person so soon after divorce, no matter how wonderful they are, is usually a very bad idea. Older people have a harder time with this. Your mom was probably unsure it she would not be adding to the chances that your sister would not reconcile with her ex if she moved to fast to include the new person.

 

I do get that your sister is anxious for the new partner to be accepted and for her kids not to feel less than. I would feel like anyone who didn't be kind to my partner's children was someone I needed to protect myself from. There is a gift giving protocol that your mom adheres to that seems ridged, but I think makes sense to her. She's SEVENTY! If she is normally kind, I think it is right to give her some grace.

[katilac]

Well, you can't control what your mom does, but I would completely support your sister in wanting all of the kids included. They are part of the family now, they need to be treated that way. That means buying them gifts for gift-buying occasions and including them in family celebrations. 

 

I really do not understand the Christmas thing. A second celebration was purposefully planned just so the girlfriend's children would not attend the main one? That is not in keeping with the Christmas spirit. It's kind of the opposite. It doesn't matter if you didn't have gifts and such planned for them - you go grab a few things and welcome them. And your mom's response about returning the gifts was seriously off the mark. 

 

Your sister's marriage and new relationship, and whether it all happened too quickly or not, are not relevant to this issue. Your sister has acknowledged that perhaps she didn't explain the seriousness of the relationship enough at first, and she seems willing to compromise (she still came hiking when she couldn't bring the girlfriend on the trip, etc). It's not ideal that she first agreed to the separate celebrations, but it's very possible her son questioned it, or she just thought, why did I agree to that? 

 

Bring birthday gifts to your nephew. Bring birthday gifts to the other kids, or send a card and a little something if you're not there. It's an easy way to bring comfort and happiness to several people. 

[bettyandbob]

Your sister has a family with five kids now. All kids need to be treated as part of the family.

 

It doesn't matter if you and your mom have not adjusted to how quickly the family was formed, all children need to be accepted.

 

Remember, the dc did not have any choice in their family situation. This is the family they have.

 

That's it.

[gardenmom5]

I sit I didn't read to the end.

 

Your sister seems to create drama, doesn't really care about others, needs to grow up, and not someone I would trust.

 

If she wants to make a scene because she's not getting her way, I'd refuse to be the audience. She can tantrum, but I wouldn't reward it.

No matter what she says, I wouldn't hold my breath on this relationship having staying power. I think that's a reflection on her.

 

And it's not the kids fault they're stuck in this mess.

Edited June 20, 2016 by gardenmom5

[kitten18]

I think your sister is acting defensively and immaturely, but I also think that if she considers the girlfriend and the girlfriend's kids her family, then it is your mother's obligation to honor that and treat them like family. It doesn't really matter how well they know one another. When I adopted my kids, I expected our families to treat them like family even though they didn't know them well (or at all).

 

I think your mom and her friend need to accept that trying to force their way isn't going to work.

 

Were I you, I would treat all children the same and otherwise stay out of it.

 

And I think threatening to return gifts is, frankly, horrible. She didn't want to be stuck with things she couldn't use? Then she could have dropped them off. Whether she meant it to be vindictive or not, it sounds extremely vindictive.

I completely agree.

[naturegirl]

Thanks for all the different perspectives and the feedback. It's good to hear how people think this should be handled. In my mom's defense it was genuine obliviousness to my sister's expectations, not malice, that drove her thinking and actions. She had no idea what my sister was thinking until my sister was already upset and laying down ultimatums. What seems obvious to some was not obvious to my mom. And unfortunately I think there are enough hurt feelings on all sides that it is going to take a while for this situation to get better. 

[SereneHome]

I don't know if it's bc I am old and grumpy or bc I know NOTHING about blended families, but....

 

I was looking at this situation through your mother's eyes and I can completely understand where she is coming from.  One day she thinks her daughter is in a happy marriage and the next - she is suppose to welcome 4 new "grandchildren" into her family.  I know I couldn't.  And frankly, I think it's unfair of your sister to be dragging those 4 "new" kids into this - the house of the woman they never met to celebrate a holiday with the "family" they never met.  I think it was very generous of your mom to buy them presents in the first place.

 

Now - the birthday parties.  It really doesn't sound like your mom was able to get to know the "new grandchildren" at all over the past 6 months.  So, again - why would she be expected to buy presents for 4 people she barely knows?  And to me it's kind of blackmail sort of approach - buy presents for all or you can't come to see your grandson (if I understand it correctly)

 

I always think it's upon the parents to welcome their children's partners into the family, but I also think it's upon the children to be more flexible in the relationship.  I think your mom did her part.  I don't think your sister did hers.

[SKL]

Sister has expressed that she wants all the kids and "step" kids to be treated as the same family, so I would definitely try to honor that wish, and I would encourage my mom to do the same.  I would talk about building bridges for the long term relationship.

 

I think your mom is holding a grudge against your sister/her girlfriend because of how fast everything happened last year, and I also think the pushiness of your sister (possibly influenced by her girlfriend behind the scenes) is rubbing your mom the wrong way.  These are understandable, but I think your mom needs to get over it.  I think I'd say, "Mom, Sister is telling us very clearly what is important to her.  It's good that she's communicating so clearly, even if it isn't as gentle as we might like.  Is it possible to work out a plan that takes your wishes and hers into account?  Let's be creative."

 

Just from the perspective of a complete outsider, I get the vibe that your sister's girlfriend is forcing her to push the matter farther than your sister would do on her own.  Girlfriend is not as interested in keeping your original family together as you are.  She might even secretly / subconsciously want to undermine those family ties.  While your sister believes this is who she's going to spend the rest of her life with, that doesn't mean the bond with mom isn't valuable.  That said, I don't know that you can do anything about that, other than just spend time with your sister so she continues to value the family tie, and hopefully time will heal some of the other issues.

[J-rap]

I think your sister lacks maturity, and she wants everyone to do everything her way, and now.  I can certainly understand your mother's discomfort with your sister's impulsive decisions and how everything changed so quickly.

 

That said, in order to keep the peace and the relationship, I'd probably just accept things as your sister wishes you to do, recognize the new children as family, and not get caught up in the drama.  Life is too short.

 

Maybe your son can invite his special cousin (your sister's son from previous marriage) over for a sleepover one night when you're visiting your mother, since it does sound like they're good friends.

[StephanieZ]

For one, I think your mom needs to buy presents for everyone, whether or not they are showing up for the actual holiday. It seems petty and mean to "return presents" if your child and grands aren't happening to show up on the exact day. You can exchange gifts at a later date, or mail them, or drop ship them from Amazon. Lots of options! I'd encourage your mom to just spend the extra money & trouble to buy gifts for all the people her daughter wishes her to (and restricted to whatever she can afford . . . If needed, split the original budget into smaller amounts among all the new people.) I'm sure your mom knows she can ask for "wish lists" from her dd for all her new family members. So, anyway, I'd speak up to your mom about this particular  issue, hoping she's amenable to changing her practices around gifts. And, if she's not, then I'd have a lot less sympathy for her than I would otherwise.

 

For the other, I think your sister and mom are being difficult and need to learn to deal with each other. Seems to me like you're getting dragged into the middle, and if you can extricate yourself, I think that'd be good for everyone involved. Unless you feel like one (say, your mom if she's declining or fragile in some way) is being harmed by the other, then I'd really try to keep out of it other than to encourage them to talk to and be kind to each other and maybe seek counseling . . .

 

Sounds to me like they're both good women and love each other but they've got baggage and issues that's getting in the way. I hope it all works out.

[Okra]

It sounds to me the problem started mainly at Christmas.  Your sister had explained the new GF was "her forever person"  Well, in that situation I would start treating them like family, including inviting them for Christmas, and giving them presents, birthday as well as Christmas presents.  

 

I also think there is no reason to return the presents, they can still be given to the children.  As far as birthday presents, money, gift cards, or experiences are all things that can be given to kids a person doesn't know very well.

 

In sum, I feel that your sister tried to make it clear that she had "her forever person" and that she felt like your mom should not treat the new kids like her first grandkid.  I probably agree with this, only because of the children.  I completely agree with bolt that kindness to children to extremely important.  If your mom could try to be kind to the children this would most likely ease tensions a lot.

 

As far as you, I would stay out of it as much as possible.  Make certain you are treating all the children equally, and encourage your mother to be kind to the children, but do not get involved in too much drama.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I sit I didn't read to the end.

 

Your sister seems to create drama, doesn't really care about others, needs to grow up, and not someone I would trust.

 

If she wants to make a scene because she's not getting her way, I'd refuse to be the audience. She can tantrum, but I wouldn't reward it.

No matter what she says, I wouldn't hold my breath on this relationship having staying power. I think that's a reflection on her.

 

And it's not the kids fault they're stuck in this mess.

Obviously.

[momof4inco]

From mom's perspective... Daughter was happily married, then suddenly left wife and is with new woman. That's pretty quick turnaround. Now your sister says this is her forever love - I'm sure she thought that about ex-wife, too. So your mom is supposed to accommodate every whim your sister has about her girlfriend's kids. If sister would back off and allow a chance for your mom to bond with the four new kids, maybe it would happen on it's own. If your mom is a caring, loving person (it sounds like it), then everything will work out as it should.

 

From sister's perspective... She knew for a long time that she wasn't happy, so she didn't have to switch gears as quickly as mom did. She is trying to make her new family work. She doesn't want girlfriend feeling that future in-laws don't care about her and her children. Forcing things to work is stressing her out and could cause the whole thing to fail in the long run. If this is so out of the ordinary for your sister - could new girlfriend be putting pressure on sister?

 

I think sister is being way too demanding and mom is being stubborn. I think sister needs to be more flexible with mom and stop dictating the way events/visits should go. Sister could set up visits with all the kids and mom, nothing expected, no gifts necessary. Give things a chance to work out.

 

I think you should stay as far away from the conflict as you possibly can! No good will come out of you calling either one of them out on their "bad" behavior. Good luck!

[bettyandbob]

I want to emphasize I don't think the mother or sister's perspectives are important to deciding how they act toward the children. Those perspectives may be important considerations toward how they act toward each other.

 

While I can see the sister's action would be viewed as difficult. That doesn't matter. How people respond to the children matters most.

 

The children involved did not pick their family. The children involved all make one family. All children in a family need similar levels of love and care and attention.

[JustEm]

I can completely see both sides of this because I lived this situation minus children when dh and I started dating. He was going through a divorce when we started dating, we were not even friends before he separated and started divorce proceedings, so your sister may not have cheated because dh certainly didn't.

 

Dh and I moved very fast because we both knew what exactly we were looking for in a partner. His divorce happened because they ended up wanting 2 separate things. Well we were on the same page and wanted to get to it. We married after dating for 7 months. This was a huge shock for dh's family because the last 4 years he had been married to someone else and he had just been hurting from that divorce. They couldn't understand how he was suddenly completely over the previous relationship. But he was. His family cautiously accepted me as their family but had they not I would understand why. I think in reality they didn't accept it but pretended they did because of their love for dh. They needed to be convinced this wasn't just a rebound. 9 years later and I think they know this is a forever relationship.

 

Your sister wants her new family to be accepted and they should be especially since there are children involved. To her the new children are her step children now and part of her family. In a blended family all children should be treated the same. So her extended family.not accepting them is only going to cause hurt to her and her new family.

[SKL]

I will say that blended family dynamics are complicated, but in this case Sister is being very clear on what to do (treat all kids the same).  If nobody in your family knows the kids at all, go on Amazon.com and type in "gift for __ year old boy/girl" and you will get all sorts of ideas.  Or think back to what you liked at that age.  Or just ask what the kids like!  There is no need to put emotional energy into the decision to include all the kids in gift giving.

 

My mom is mostly confined to the house for health reasons.  For years, my sister has been the person who has bought all the grandkids' gifts on my mom's behalf.  Sometimes my mom has an idea, other times it's up to my sister to find the inspiration.  If your mom can't bring herself to choose and buy gifts, maybe you could offer to do it on her behalf.

[Haiku]

What seems obvious to some was not obvious to my mom. 

 

I understand that. But once your mom knows, she has a choice in how she behaves, and it sounds like she has chosen poorly on several occasions. The thing that your mom really needs to understand is that she does not get to choose who your sister's family is. Only your sister gets to choose that. Resentment and pushback from family members is bound to worsen the situation.

 

I'm also not inclined to think the girlfriend is some nefarious negative influence in the background. I think that, if your sister was unhappy in her marriage for a while, it's likely that she's just relieved and happy that she's not anymore and is enthusiastic for this new, positive phase in her life to move forward. That is how it worked with my dad and stepmom. I was a beast about my dad's new relationship (not an adulterous relationship, but one that began quickly after he and my mom split), and it was because I was selfishly focusing on myself (I was in my late teens). Looking back, I'm ashamed of how I reacted because I was only concerned about myself and not about my dad's happiness. He and my stepmom have been married for 24 years now ... almost as long as my dad and mom were married.

 

I was a step-grandkid when I was growing up (my grandma remarried when I was 9, after my granddaddy died), and luckily there was no question of acceptance. We used to say that "the only steps in the [family name] family lead down to the lake" (my grandparents lived in a lake community). I had no say in what happened. Had family members distinguished between "real" and "step" cousins (kids), it would have been incredibly painful.

 

That said, I'll reiterate that I don't think your sister is behaving as well as she could. But the rest of you can choose to behave well, and it will likely help diffuse the situation. I think your mom owes the girlfriend an apology, actually.

[Xahm]

If your sister is venting to you, maybe point out gently that your mother doesn't tend to move quickly (look at her long-standing but undefined relationship with her good friend). Help her see that during all the time she was thinking about changing relationships, your family had no clue anything was happening. It's certainly her right, and is probably wise, to keep a lot of those thoughts to herself, but it had the effect of SEEMING out of the blue to your mother, and that probably scared her. If your sister can see that your mother is acting out of confusion and a desire to keep her daughter safe (even if there's no danger, mothers want to keep their kids safe), maybe your sister can have a little more patience with your mother.

If your mom is venting to you, try helping her see that the kids don't need to be hurt by getting caught in the middle. The best way to help them would be to follow your sister's wishes about including all equally. Encourage optimism about the new relationship. And maybe dial back the Christmas presents a bit (but I am big into small Christmases anyway and get driven a bit crazy by my in-laws giving 4 or so presents to each kid).

Otherwise, stay out of it and try to enjoy your time while you are with them. Maybe suggest outings with your mom and also invite your sister's family so you can spend time with everyone at once.

[ktgrok]

Can I just say, this is probably made more difficult by the nebulousness of the term 'girlfriend"? Girlfriend can mean the person you went out to dinner with once a week, or in this case a live in relationship akin to marriage. Mom may not be understanding where on this continuium things are. Her actions are totally appropriate if this was a casual or at least not a live in akin to marriage relationship. 

 

I also wonder, is your sister talking about marrying this woman? To me, a forever relationship implies marriage, and that term tends to explain to others how serious the relationship is. Would your mom be acting differently if they were married, rather than "just" living together?

[Bluegoat]

This type of situation is familiar to me from my own paternal family.  There was a lot of this kind of thing, and I was often in the middle of it as a kid. 

 

I think your sister has largely caused the problem by being very unwise, and really very naïve, about families.  Saying "this is now my new life partner" does not suddenly dissolve all the relationships the family has made with the old "life partner."   Having accepted the previous spouse into the family, barring something pretty extreme, that does not just go away, because families don't work that way. 

 

The other thing that strikes me is that your mom may feel, maybe even unconsciously, that this new arrangement is unstable, or perhaps unlikely to last.  Telling people that "this is it" in terms of relationships is not likely to make them believe it, it might very well incline them to think there is some real delusion going on.  If your mom has a feeling that it isn't a stable situation, a reluctance to create deep ties is pretty natural IMO, and maybe especially with the kids.  Looking at the family histories you shared, the whole group of kids has had what looks like a revolving door on "family" and I think that is really hard on them.  Frankly, for me as a child, the idea of the second Christmas celebration would have been a lot less pressure than joining the main family celebration so soon.  Becoming family puts expectations on the kids, even if the adults don't realize it.

 

I also think - whether on not people think it is judgmental,  if people suspect there might have been cheating going on, it will be in their minds about this new person, and it will affect their response. 

 

I think in the end, your mother's approach of taking it slow on integrating the two new families is the better one - the insta-family your sister wants is unrealistic.  She's created a bit of a problem by trying to put together a new family so quickly, so that they feel they need to enforce a kind of equality between all the kids. 

 

As far as what to do about it, honestly I don't have a sweet clue.  Your sister sounds unlikely to listen.  Probably the only option is for your mom to back down totally, even if she is right, and hope it all comes out for the best, and just be really kind to the kids.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Bluegoat

[Bluegoat]

No advice, but I just thought I'd mention that my sister recently lost custody of her kids (ages 16, 13, & 11). She is the biological mother, and the kids have ONLY ever lived with her since they were born. She doesn't have a boyfriend, owns her own home, etc. (Long story, not the fault of my sister. She's a great mother.) Despite all this, the court has given her five nights of visitation every two weeks. So I'm thinking it's a pretty standard visitation order and has nothing to do with your sister's current living situation.

 

It seems like there must be a logic to this.  My guess it is related to keeping the child in one place for school time?  Over two weeks, that could be a good part of both week-ends.  Divided up that way, it could kind of stink for both parents, one gets all the annoying school stuff and running around, and not much time to relax or do other stuff together.  On the other side, it would be hard not to feel like a bit of a visitor.

[Happy]

As a mom and a mom in law, it would be very hard for me to switch gears as fast as your sister seems to demand. I would need some time to grieve the loss of someone I loved and had made a part of my family (the ex) unless I knew that person had been awful to my child. I hate having anyone or anything crammed down my throat.

 

I believe your sister is a bit of a bully--it's her way or nothing.

 

As a mom and a grand mom, I would make an effort to make the new children welcome in my home anytime they were there. But I'd be cautious about making them my 'grands' too early. Who knows whether sister's relationship will last???  Time is not a bad thing here. IF it's a forever relationship, it will be obvious within a year or two.

 

I'm a decade plus younger than your mom. Older people aren't necessarily inflexible...but we have seen and done things that might make us think differently about situations.

 

[Haiku]

IF it's a forever relationship, it will be obvious within a year or two.

 

Well, it's been 18 months since the sister started dating the new girlfriend.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I wouldn't get in the middle of it. 

[Tammyla]

Your mom and sister need to work / talk this out or it will be a reoccurring drama at family celebrations and get togethers.  The two of them sound pretty set in their own ways...I wouldn't want to be in the middle of them.  

[Tree Frog]

From mom's perspective... Daughter was happily married, then suddenly left wife and is with new woman. That's pretty quick turnaround. Now your sister says this is her forever love - I'm sure she thought that about ex-wife, too. So your mom is supposed to accommodate every whim your sister has about her girlfriend's kids. If sister would back off and allow a chance for your mom to bond with the four new kids, maybe it would happen on it's own. If your mom is a caring, loving person (it sounds like it), then everything will work out as it should.

 

From sister's perspective... She knew for a long time that she wasn't happy, so she didn't have to switch gears as quickly as mom did. She is trying to make her new family work. She doesn't want girlfriend feeling that future in-laws don't care about her and her children. Forcing things to work is stressing her out and could cause the whole thing to fail in the long run. If this is so out of the ordinary for your sister - could new girlfriend be putting pressure on sister?

 

I think sister is being way too demanding and mom is being stubborn. I think sister needs to be more flexible with mom and stop dictating the way events/visits should go. Sister could set up visits with all the kids and mom, nothing expected, no gifts necessary. Give things a chance to work out.

 

I think you should stay as far away from the conflict as you possibly can! No good will come out of you calling either one of them out on their "bad" behavior. Good luck!

 

This is what I wondered.

 

ETA: deleted the rest of my post. My timeline was off.

Edited June 20, 2016 by wilrunner

[Bluegoat]

Well, it's been 18 months since the sister started dating the new girlfriend.

 

I wouldn't consider that very long, under the circumstances. 

 

Really I find the dragging the kids into a new "family" already a little sad and distastful.  The oldest ones must be at the point where they see the contradiction between being told they are now part of a new forever family, and their own experience of how long families actually stay together.  Bio mom no longer in the picture, step-mom and dad no longer together, half-siblings in the same kind of boat, new step-sibling in the same kind of boat, in-laws (family, right) now expected to drop each other. 

[Janeway]

As I read back over my post, I realize it is quite long and rambling. Sorry about that. I'm just looking for honest opinions about this situation. If I'm in the wrong, don't worry about hurting my feelings. I want to know both what you would do and what you think is reasonable to expect in this situation.

 

My parents divorced when I was young, and my mom, sister and I have been always had a good relationship. I live in a different city, several states away from my mom and sister (they live in the same city) and go home twice a year for a visit. 

 

Last January (as in January 2015) my sister left her wife. It was a big surprise to us. My sister hadn't mentioned any problems to either my mom or I. In fact, up until the time my sister left, she and her wife were actively trying to buy a house together. Apparently she and her wife had been having problems for a long time, they tried counseling the summer before and it wasn't successful. My sister wasn't in love any more and wanted out. 

 

They have one son together. My sister's ex is the biological mother, though my sister legally adopted her son shortly after he was born. A very angry and drawn-out custody battle ensued and my sister has been understandably very stressed out by the situation. It took over a year for the custody ruling to be made and my sister ended up only getting her son for five nights every two weeks instead of the 50/50 custody she was seeking. She was crushed by the outcome. The financial stuff was just recently resolved and the divorce was just finalized last month.

 

So that is the back story, now onto the issue at hand. A week after she left her wife, my sister told us she was dating someone new. We were once again very surprised. One week we thought she was happily married and now she is dating someone else. She says that she wasn't cheating on her wife, but I don't see how that's possible at least in thought if not in action. I guess it depends on how you define cheating.

 

Last spring (a couple months after my sister left her wife) my sister, mom, mom's best friend (in reality more than a best friend, but no one has every said anything official), and I made plans to go to the beach during my summer visit with my sister's son and my son. We rented a cabin for two nights. A couple weeks before the trip, my sister asked if her girlfriend and her girlfriend's youngest daughter could come along on the trip. We said we'd rather just keep this trip for family. My sister sent us a long email about how she hadn't been expressing herself clearly, but new girlfriend was the woman she planned to spend the rest of her life with and she would really like new girlfriend to be included on this trip so we could get to know her. Once again we were all shocked. They'd been dating for six months, the divorce wasn't even close to finalized yet and my mom had only met the girlfriend once. We still said no but said we'd love to meet the girlfriend and get to know her better at another point during my visit. 

 

I did end up meeting the new girlfriend one afternoon last summer. My sister and I made plans to go hiking and she brought the new girlfriend along. She is a very nice woman and easy to get along with. Girlfriend actually has four children ranging in age from 5-14, though I didn't meet them that trip. She shares custody with her ex-husband. The older two children are actually his with a previous girlfriend, but my sister's girlfriend was their mother from the time they were young. I have no idea what happened to the biological mother, but she is not in the picture.

 

Sometime last fall my sister moved in with her girlfriend. They live in a four bedroom house, so her son, when he is with my sister, shares a room with the girlfriend's youngest daughter who is the same age as my nephew (both 4 years old at the time). Up until then she was living with my mom, but spent most of her time at her girlfriend's house.

 

Fast forward to last Christmas. I posted about this situation last Christmas when there was a bunch of last minute changes to our Christmas celebration. We had planned on celebrating an early Christmas with my mom and her friend (she has been included in family Christmas for the past 10 or 12 years. She has been a part of my mom's life for at least 20 years), my sister, her girlfriend and my sister's son, me, my husband and our son. This is when were were going to do our main gift exchange. A day or two later we planned another day for girlfriend and her four kids to come over and meet everyone. We planned dinner, games and a small gift exchange for that day as well.

 

My mom is a big planner. She buys gifts many months ahead of time and had the celebrations lined up moths in advance. A couple weeks before Christmas my sister says that she does't want separate celebrations, but instead wants to do them all together. My mom says she doesn't want to do that. My sister says if that is the case, the second celebration with the girlfriend's kids is cancelled, girlfriend isn't coming to the first celebration either. My sister says she isn't sure if she and her son are going to come either. Mom asks if she is sure and if so should she go ahead and start returning gifts. My sister says yes, she is sure. Then a week before our Christmas celebration my sister says it is back on and that her girlfriend and all her kids are coming. Even though my mom already said no to this, she didn't want to keep fighting about Christmas, and just agreed. We all had to scramble to buy presents last minute. My sister thought Christmas went great, but my mom and her friend are still very upset by the way everything went down.

 

That was the only day my sister came over to visit for the entire two weeks I was in town. In the past she always made time to comes over every day she was free and brought her son too so the cousins can hang out. My son kept asking when his cousin was coming over to play. 

 

My sister and I have talked in the mean time and she has told me how she doesn't understand what my mom is thinking and that she had hoped and expected my mom to become another grandmother to her girlfriend's kids. I told her that I don't think mom is thinking along those lines and that she needs to decide if that is a deal breaker and that if it is then she needs to clearly communicate that and give my mom a chance to respond. My sister also complained that my mom wasn't making an effort to get to know them. I told my sister if she wanted my mom to get to know them she needs to invite my mom over to make that happen. My sister invited my mom over once this spring. She declined my mom's invitation when my mom wanted to take my sister out for her birthday (this is something they have done every year).

 

This summer is my mom's 70th birthday party. My mom has been planning a party for a year. Only adults are invited to my mom's party. Both my sister and her girlfriend were invited though girlfriend declined the invitation. I will be home for two weeks both for the party and to visit with the family. This trip I made plans with my sister ahead of time so that I was sure I would get to see her more than just at my mom's birthday party. We are going over to her house for the Fourth of July then again for my nephew's birthday party. We also planned a day at the pool.

 

A couple days ago my sister texted my mom and told her that if she wasn't going to buy birthday presents for her girlfriend's kids on their birthdays, then she couldn't bring a present for my nephew at his party either. My mom has of course already bought several presents. My mom wrote back asking why events that were suppose to be happy (Christmas and birthdays) were being turned into such contentious events. Because she didn't know the girlfriends kids very well yet and didn't have a close relationship with them, she was't planning to get them gifts. She did send each one who has had a birthday since Christmas a birthday card. She agreed to not give her grandson any gifts if that is what my sister wants and to not attend the party if that is what my sister wants. I just got the invitation to my nephew's birthday party today. My mom and her friend are both invited. My mom's friend and I had not been told whether we can bring gifts or not.

 

My sister has been very clear that her priority is to make sure her son feels stable in their new family with her girlfriend and children. She wants stability in his life and feels this is the best way to provide it. My mom and her friend feel very strongly that moving out of her old house and moving in with someone new so quickly after leaving her wife was a strong contributing factor in my sister not getting 50/50 custody. It's hard to say what motivated the decision. These things aren't explained when the decision is made. It could be that the man evaluating my sister and her ex as parents was always going to side with the biological mother or it could be that my sister's living situation made a big difference. We will never know.

 

So here we are. My mom's friend is very angry with my sister as she's the shoulder my mom has been crying on every time my sister hurts her with a new email or phone call. My mom is a bit angry but more sad and confused than anything else. She is really close with her grandson (and until recently my sister). The situation is bad enough with my sister that my mom has made a deliberate effort to keep communication open with my sister's ex, even though they were never close, because she is afraid my sister is going to cut off contact and she still wants to be able to see her grandson if that hapens. The ex recently contacted my mom saying that my sister told her not to talk to my mom anymore. When my mom talked to my sister, she told my mom she didn't want her talking with her ex.

 

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. Honestly, I'm clueless about these type of situations and I don't know what is expected of me. My sister is not mad at me and we are still talking. I'm trying to make an effort to get to know the girlfriend and her kids, but I'm only in town a couple weeks a year. And with my sister just not coming over to my mom's house at all last Christmas it's hard to get to know everyone. The girlfriend's birthday is close to my sister's so this last spring I sent them a joint gift. It didn't occur to me to ask when the kids' birthdays were.

 

If you've made it through this, thank you. What do you think? What is expected in these circumstances? I always kind of assumed that each family figured it out on their own, but my mom and sister both seem to have definite ideas of how things are suppose to go. I think my sister has this picture in her head of how things should be, but hasn't communicated that picture to everyone else. She just gets mad after the fact when that picture doesn't come to fruition. But maybe I'm not being fair. Maybe her expectations are realistic and we've been dropping the ball by not meeting them. I honestly don't know. Thoughts?

Only adults are invited to my mom's birthday party. Both my sister and her girlfriend were invited though girlfriend declined the invitation. 

Your sister is immature and using emotional warfare. I think you all should just not cave to her stunts. 

[Laurie]

What do I think?  

 

Honestly, I think there are too many women in your family!    

 

My extended family has problems, and I think it's also because there are too many women.  Without going into the details, I'll just say that I'm sick of people who want to control giving.  

 

It sounds like there's too much emphasis on gift-giving occasions in your family.  Your sister and mother live close enough that your sister should be able to invite your mother over to get to know her new family...and not just when your mother would be expected to arrive bearing gifts.   Spending time together is more important than spending money, but I agree with everyone else that all the children should receive gifts.  Maybe the adults should stop buying gifts for each other and just buy gifts for all the children and focus on making the celebrations special for them.  

 

I like J-rap's idea of your son and his cousin getting together.   They deserve a break!   It would be nice if they had a treehouse, tent, or some other little "man-cave" to escape to!     

[Janeway]

As I read back over my post, I realize it is quite long and rambling. Sorry about that. I'm just looking for honest opinions about this situation. If I'm in the wrong, don't worry about hurting my feelings. I want to know both what you would do and what you think is reasonable to expect in this situation.

 

My parents divorced when I was young, and my mom, sister and I have been always had a good relationship. I live in a different city, several states away from my mom and sister (they live in the same city) and go home twice a year for a visit. 

 

Last January (as in January 2015) my sister left her wife. It was a big surprise to us. My sister hadn't mentioned any problems to either my mom or I. In fact, up until the time my sister left, she and her wife were actively trying to buy a house together. Apparently she and her wife had been having problems for a long time, they tried counseling the summer before and it wasn't successful. My sister wasn't in love any more and wanted out. 

 

They have one son together. My sister's ex is the biological mother, though my sister legally adopted her son shortly after he was born. A very angry and drawn-out custody battle ensued and my sister has been understandably very stressed out by the situation. It took over a year for the custody ruling to be made and my sister ended up only getting her son for five nights every two weeks instead of the 50/50 custody she was seeking. She was crushed by the outcome. The financial stuff was just recently resolved and the divorce was just finalized last month.

 

So that is the back story, now onto the issue at hand. A week after she left her wife, my sister told us she was dating someone new. We were once again very surprised. One week we thought she was happily married and now she is dating someone else. She says that she wasn't cheating on her wife, but I don't see how that's possible at least in thought if not in action. I guess it depends on how you define cheating.

 

Last spring (a couple months after my sister left her wife) my sister, mom, mom's best friend (in reality more than a best friend, but no one has every said anything official), and I made plans to go to the beach during my summer visit with my sister's son and my son. We rented a cabin for two nights. A couple weeks before the trip, my sister asked if her girlfriend and her girlfriend's youngest daughter could come along on the trip. We said we'd rather just keep this trip for family. My sister sent us a long email about how she hadn't been expressing herself clearly, but new girlfriend was the woman she planned to spend the rest of her life with and she would really like new girlfriend to be included on this trip so we could get to know her. Once again we were all shocked. They'd been dating for six months, the divorce wasn't even close to finalized yet and my mom had only met the girlfriend once. We still said no but said we'd love to meet the girlfriend and get to know her better at another point during my visit. 

 

I did end up meeting the new girlfriend one afternoon last summer. My sister and I made plans to go hiking and she brought the new girlfriend along. She is a very nice woman and easy to get along with. Girlfriend actually has four children ranging in age from 5-14, though I didn't meet them that trip. She shares custody with her ex-husband. The older two children are actually his with a previous girlfriend, but my sister's girlfriend was their mother from the time they were young. I have no idea what happened to the biological mother, but she is not in the picture.

 

Sometime last fall my sister moved in with her girlfriend. They live in a four bedroom house, so her son, when he is with my sister, shares a room with the girlfriend's youngest daughter who is the same age as my nephew (both 4 years old at the time). Up until then she was living with my mom, but spent most of her time at her girlfriend's house.

 

Fast forward to last Christmas. I posted about this situation last Christmas when there was a bunch of last minute changes to our Christmas celebration. We had planned on celebrating an early Christmas with my mom and her friend (she has been included in family Christmas for the past 10 or 12 years. She has been a part of my mom's life for at least 20 years), my sister, her girlfriend and my sister's son, me, my husband and our son. This is when were were going to do our main gift exchange. A day or two later we planned another day for girlfriend and her four kids to come over and meet everyone. We planned dinner, games and a small gift exchange for that day as well.

 

My mom is a big planner. She buys gifts many months ahead of time and had the celebrations lined up moths in advance. A couple weeks before Christmas my sister says that she does't want separate celebrations, but instead wants to do them all together. My mom says she doesn't want to do that. My sister says if that is the case, the second celebration with the girlfriend's kids is cancelled, girlfriend isn't coming to the first celebration either. My sister says she isn't sure if she and her son are going to come either. Mom asks if she is sure and if so should she go ahead and start returning gifts. My sister says yes, she is sure. Then a week before our Christmas celebration my sister says it is back on and that her girlfriend and all her kids are coming. Even though my mom already said no to this, she didn't want to keep fighting about Christmas, and just agreed. We all had to scramble to buy presents last minute. My sister thought Christmas went great, but my mom and her friend are still very upset by the way everything went down.

 

That was the only day my sister came over to visit for the entire two weeks I was in town. In the past she always made time to comes over every day she was free and brought her son too so the cousins can hang out. My son kept asking when his cousin was coming over to play. 

 

My sister and I have talked in the mean time and she has told me how she doesn't understand what my mom is thinking and that she had hoped and expected my mom to become another grandmother to her girlfriend's kids. I told her that I don't think mom is thinking along those lines and that she needs to decide if that is a deal breaker and that if it is then she needs to clearly communicate that and give my mom a chance to respond. My sister also complained that my mom wasn't making an effort to get to know them. I told my sister if she wanted my mom to get to know them she needs to invite my mom over to make that happen. My sister invited my mom over once this spring. She declined my mom's invitation when my mom wanted to take my sister out for her birthday (this is something they have done every year).

 

This summer is my mom's 70th birthday party. My mom has been planning a party for a year. Only adults are invited to my mom's party. Both my sister and her girlfriend were invited though girlfriend declined the invitation. I will be home for two weeks both for the party and to visit with the family. This trip I made plans with my sister ahead of time so that I was sure I would get to see her more than just at my mom's birthday party. We are going over to her house for the Fourth of July then again for my nephew's birthday party. We also planned a day at the pool.

 

A couple days ago my sister texted my mom and told her that if she wasn't going to buy birthday presents for her girlfriend's kids on their birthdays, then she couldn't bring a present for my nephew at his party either. My mom has of course already bought several presents. My mom wrote back asking why events that were suppose to be happy (Christmas and birthdays) were being turned into such contentious events. Because she didn't know the girlfriends kids very well yet and didn't have a close relationship with them, she was't planning to get them gifts. She did send each one who has had a birthday since Christmas a birthday card. She agreed to not give her grandson any gifts if that is what my sister wants and to not attend the party if that is what my sister wants. I just got the invitation to my nephew's birthday party today. My mom and her friend are both invited. My mom's friend and I had not been told whether we can bring gifts or not.

 

My sister has been very clear that her priority is to make sure her son feels stable in their new family with her girlfriend and children. She wants stability in his life and feels this is the best way to provide it. My mom and her friend feel very strongly that moving out of her old house and moving in with someone new so quickly after leaving her wife was a strong contributing factor in my sister not getting 50/50 custody. It's hard to say what motivated the decision. These things aren't explained when the decision is made. It could be that the man evaluating my sister and her ex as parents was always going to side with the biological mother or it could be that my sister's living situation made a big difference. We will never know.

 

So here we are. My mom's friend is very angry with my sister as she's the shoulder my mom has been crying on every time my sister hurts her with a new email or phone call. My mom is a bit angry but more sad and confused than anything else. She is really close with her grandson (and until recently my sister). The situation is bad enough with my sister that my mom has made a deliberate effort to keep communication open with my sister's ex, even though they were never close, because she is afraid my sister is going to cut off contact and she still wants to be able to see her grandson if that hapens. The ex recently contacted my mom saying that my sister told her not to talk to my mom anymore. When my mom talked to my sister, she told my mom she didn't want her talking with her ex.

 

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. Honestly, I'm clueless about these type of situations and I don't know what is expected of me. My sister is not mad at me and we are still talking. I'm trying to make an effort to get to know the girlfriend and her kids, but I'm only in town a couple weeks a year. And with my sister just not coming over to my mom's house at all last Christmas it's hard to get to know everyone. The girlfriend's birthday is close to my sister's so this last spring I sent them a joint gift. It didn't occur to me to ask when the kids' birthdays were.

 

If you've made it through this, thank you. What do you think? What is expected in these circumstances? I always kind of assumed that each family figured it out on their own, but my mom and sister both seem to have definite ideas of how things are suppose to go. I think my sister has this picture in her head of how things should be, but hasn't communicated that picture to everyone else. She just gets mad after the fact when that picture doesn't come to fruition. But maybe I'm not being fair. Maybe her expectations are realistic and we've been dropping the ball by not meeting them. I honestly don't know. Thoughts?

Only adults are invited to my mom's birthday party. Both my sister and her girlfriend were invited though girlfriend declined the invitation. 

Also, if your mom really wants to give gifts to her grandson, have her send it through the ex. It is giving too much power to the sister to only talk to whoever sister says they can talk to. Your sister has some mental health issues going on. She is trying to triangulate everyone by telling all who can talk to whom. And she is using emotional manipulation to get away with it. If you all cave in to this, you will be held in bondage by her for always. Everyone needs to take a stand. No more triangulation or emotional manipulation or warfare.

[Haiku]

I wouldn't consider that very long, under the circumstances. 

 

I was responding to this:

 

 

 

IF it's a forever relationship, it will be obvious within a year or two.

 

Personally, I think people are too attached to what should be, or what would be nice, or the way I would do things, and they may not be seeing what is, which is a family member who has gone through a rough time and really just wants to get on with some semblance of a normal life with someone she loves and feels is accepted. As I stated in a previous post, I understand how people can have strong feelings about families breaking up and/or changing composition, but in this case, it's really not about the mom, the mom's friend, or the OP. It's about being supportive of the sister and making sure that she and the kids feel loved and welcomed. It would be least stressful for the existing child not to have his grandmother treating the family he is now in, through no choice or action of his own, with hostility, and it would be kindest to the newly arrived children to be made to feel welcome, as they also have no control over the situation and have likely already been through some turmoil. Kindness is kindness. The OP's mom doesn't have to force the Grandma thing on them if they don't want it, but they do need to be treated as equals in the sister's family. Anything less will likely cause long-lasting hard feelings.

 

Honestly, it baffles me that the sister and her girlfriend have been together well over a year yet the mom still claims she doesn't really know the kids. They live in the same town, if I understand correctly.

[Carol in Cal.]

When I was younger, I thought that you could wave a wand and pouf!  someone new would become Family.  Or Friend.

Relationship by extension.

 

As I've gotten older I've realized that although that is sometimes true, there are also shared history, shared traits, shared customs, shared faith, shared jokes, shared recipes, etc. to bind you closer and closer over time.  And those don't necessarily die overnight either.  

 

So this situation is tricky not least because there are people who WERE family that are now expected to be considered NOT family.  And there is Replacement family, which is rightly suspected to be unreliably stable based on the whole Prior Family clan.  

 

Just holding up a mirror.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[Bluegoat]

Also, if your mom really wants to give gifts to her grandson, have her send it through the ex. It is giving too much power to the sister to only talk to whoever sister says they can talk to. Your sister has some mental health issues going on. She is trying to triangulate everyone by telling all who can talk to whom. And she is using emotional manipulation to get away with it. If you all cave in to this, you will be held in bondage by her for always. Everyone needs to take a stand. No more triangulation or emotional manipulation or warfare.

 

Yes, I think this could be an option, though I would be concerned about escalating something, which might be hard on the ex as well.

 

But I think I would be inclined to be clear with the sister that she doesn't get to dictate the relationship the rest of the family has with her ex.

[cera2]

It sounds to me like your sister thought she could just drop the new girlfriend and her kids into the family without giving anyone time to adjust and get to know them.  By doing so it seems like she is making things worse instead of better.  

[Bluegoat]

I was responding to this:

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think people are too attached to what should be, or what would be nice, or the way I would do things, and they may not be seeing what is, which is a family member who has gone through a rough time and really just wants to get on with some semblance of a normal life with someone she loves and feels is accepted. As I stated in a previous post, I understand how people can have strong feelings about families breaking up and/or changing composition, but in this case, it's really not about the mom, the mom's friend, or the OP. It's about being supportive of the sister and making sure that she and the kids feel loved and welcomed. It would be least stressful for the existing child not to have his grandmother treating the family he is now in, through no choice or action of his own, with hostility, and it would be kindest to the newly arrived children to be made to feel welcome, as they also have no control over the situation and have likely already been through some turmoil. Kindness is kindness. The OP's mom doesn't have to force the Grandma thing on them if they don't want it, but they do need to be treated as equals in the sister's family. Anything less will likely cause long-lasting hard feelings.

 

Honestly, it baffles me that the sister and her girlfriend have been together well over a year yet the mom still claims she doesn't really know the kids. They live in the same town, if I understand correctly.

 

I think the kids are in the worst position yes, and it is important to be kind to them.  It may be, and I said in my post, the only way forward is for the mother to almost completely back down, because the sister simply won't.

 

But I don't think the problem is the mother being hostile, I think it is the sister trying to dictate just what everyone does, how they need to relate and get to know each other, who they can talk to, and on what terms.  I don't think she has a legitimate claim to "support" whatever she asks for or whatever she does.

 

The OP said in a subsequent post I think that she suggested the sister should invite the mother over just for a visit, but that she has only done so once.  She doesn't seem to be encouraging the low key meetings much herself.

[PeachyDoodle]

I think there's a difference between being kind, loving, warm and welcoming to a child with whom you have a relationship (any relationship, even an acquaintance one) and forcing that relationship into a grandparent/grandchild mold. It sounds like your mom is willing and able to do the former, but not the latter, at least not yet.

 

DH's stepmother (whom FIL married a couple of years ago) is ALWAYS kind, loving, warm and welcoming to my kids. She is not their grandmother. They are not her grandchildren. She knows it; they know it. They call her by her first name, not Grandma. But they love her, and she loves them. She doesn't have to be their Grandma to be a positive presence in their life. They don't feel unwanted or second-class just because she doesn't consider herself their grandmother -- they have two grandmothers already.

 

I guess I don't see the big deal about making the girlfriend's kids feel as though they have the same relationship to your mom as your sister's son has. I think it's just weird (from the kids' perspective) to try to convince them that they've suddenly acquired a new grandmother. Even by 3 or 4, most kids are savvy enough to understand what those relationships are and how they're formed.

[MistyMountain]

Honestly I think the girlfriend and kids should have been allowed to come for the vacation and the main Christmas celebration. If they are functioning as a family and wanting to get married the kids should be accepted. It is pretty shocking it happen so fast and her first family no longer is a family unit but it is what it is. She is living with her and planning to get married and the kids are now an important part of her life. Having separate functions where everyone gets to know them is not the same.

 

I do not think your sister's tactics are the best and the gift thing is something I would not be so hard about but I can see why she is a little hurt.

Edited June 20, 2016 by MistyMountain

[Happy]

Well, it's been 18 months since the sister started dating the new girlfriend.

It sounded as if the demands to accept the new family members were done right away--not giving any time for anyone to adjust, cope, grieve, or get to know the people involved.