Fitness People - Why Can't DD Lose Weight?

[SparklyUnicorn]

why is a 12yo dieting?

at this age, the focus should be on a healthy *lifetime* diet.

you can also have a thyroid panel - including free t3 & free t4.

 

I agree.  I would be really worried about setting her up for a lifetime of difficulties. 

 

My best friend in high school was constantly on a diet.  It never worked and she felt bad about herself all the time.  It was awful. 

 

I would push to find out if something more is going on, but I'd be cautious about becoming too obsessive with dieting. 

[freesia]

Forgot to add one thing:  regardless of how much she eats (e.g. "on a diet" or eating whatever she wants) she told me she feels hungry all.the.time.

For me, this happened bc of the insulin resistence. Insulin makes you so hungry and her body is probably pouring it out. Low carb is the only way that I've been able to loose weight. I know you said this was unsustainable, but it sounds like she needs to cut her carbs. Has she done an A1C lately? Does she have a glucose meter? You can have her test and see what foods are making her bs rise. Those are the ones to cut out.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.....

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[shinyhappypeople]

I have a hundred things that I want to say/recommend but, due to the fact that I am not a medical professional, I will keep them all to myself... with one exception:

 

With the symptoms of PCOS, the mention of 'doing WW', and the comment that she is 'always hungry', please please please make sure that she is NOT eating fat-free/low-fat dairy products. Low- and no-fat dairy has been shown repeatedly to cause all sorts of hormonal issues in women and girls; it will mimic PCOS in those that don't have it and will make it much worse in those that already do. It causes fertility issues in grown women and can cause problems with the onset of puberty in young girls. Recent research has shown that those that eat full-fat diary have a much easier time losing weight and many other health benefits.

 

I have PCOS (diagnosed in my 20s). Switching over to full-fat dairy alleviated my acne, lessened the excess hair growth, calmed the mood swings, and significantly curbed my appettite (as the fat helped me to finally feel full).

 

Also, you might want to check out the Healthy At Any Size (HAES) movement for ways to encourage your daughter without focusing on her weight/looks and helping her appreciate how awesome she already is. Hugs and good luck to you both.

 

Does that include part-skim mozzarella?  That's the only lower fat cheese she eats.  She doesn't eat other dairy because she's become lactose intolerant, I think.  A little cheese doesn't make her sick, but milk or ice cream (poor kid) does.  Thank goodness for coconut milk ice cream :)  It's definitely not low-fat, but it's an awesome treat.

Edited June 2, 2016 by shinyhappypeople

[Minerva]

:grouphug:

[ocelotmom]

I agree about a full endocrinology workup. She has an array of endocrine symptoms. You cannot know the approach that's going to be the best option for promoting long-term health (and that's presumably the goal) without knowing what is going on.

 

At the very least, I think a bone scan to check her growth plates would be appropriate. Reaching full adult height by age 12 is not normal (though not inconsistent with precocious puberty, either), and that's what it sounds like you're think is going on. It wouldn't take much of a height gain for 160 to drop out of the obese range, so knowing for a fact what you're dealing with as far as future growth would be helpful for determining what path to take.

[Slache]

Understood. And it does help some women with PCOS as well- but it doesn't get to the root of the problem, only masks it temporarily.

I've never heard of POCS but I have half the symptoms. It makes me wonder. :laugh:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I haven't read any replies.

 

BUT.

 

You mentioned the "dark patches" and being pre-diabetic. Have you looked into the possibility that she has PCOS? Insulin resistance and dark patches of skin are two signs that you have PCOS. I have PCOS, but have never had the dark patches.

 

Having lived with pre-diabetes and PCOS, I can tell you that eating a "healthy" diet is not enough. It HAS to be low carb, as in, almost no carb. That is the ONLY way I am able to lose weight AND feel good.

 

The only "program" that I have found to work is to first, do the "21 Day Sugar Detox" by Diane Sanfilippo to get my cravings in order and clear out my system. I track what I eat using My Fitness Pal during the 21 days, so that I know what level of net carb intake makes me feel best. For me, it's about 50g of net carbs a DAY. Not per meal, A DAY. That means that even if she is eating a "healthy" diet that includes fruit and whole grains, she may still be taking in way too many carbs for HER body.

 

After that 21 days, I allow berries and potatoes back into my diet, but I still keep track of how many carbs I take in. As long as I hover around that 50g of net carbs a day, I feel fabulous and I lose weight. But if I eat what the nutritionist tells me is acceptable carbs for a diabetic person (something like 175g carbs a day!!!!), I feel like crap and maintain or gain weight.

 

It's crucial that you understand that what is healthy for a normal person, might not be healthy for someone with insulin issues. Fruit is healthy, yes. But too many carbs is bad for someone with insulin issues, irregardless of where those carbs come from.

I am interested in a sample 50 gram carb diet that you might eat on a given for ideas. I appreciate any info.

[gardenmom5]

 

Please do not believe the LIE of weight loss being calories in vs. calories out. That might work for healthy people with no underlying issues, but it is an OUT RIGHT LIE, for the rest of us.

​

 

And for those saying that a 12 year old shouldn't be dieting, I disagree. If she is only 5'1 and 160 pounds, that is unhealthy. And if she does have PCOS, the longer she goes without treating it, the worse it will get, 

 if she does have PCOS - engaging in a healthy PCOS diet is healthy eating for her, and something that would be  her healthy lifetime diet.

[Bluegoat]

I don't think, when people say a 12 year old should not diet, they mean that a diagnosed medical problem should not be treated by diet.

 

Rather - for general weight loss it isn't an appropriate approach at 12, and trying fad diets is not a good idea and likely to cause further problems.

 

If a 12 year old is in a position of actually needing to lose weight, it should probably be under supervision of someone with real knowledge of the medical situation.

 

Normally, if someone that age is overweight, the recommendation is to hold weight steady while they grow, not to lose.  And it should be with a lifelong eating plan, not a 'diet" because that is likely to start a diet-yo-yo problem.

[LucyStoner]

I would stop trying to find a magic diet and get her to that child obesity clinic you mentioned. She likely has some sort of medical issue, be it PCOS or disordered eating or something else. She needs a plan created by a medical professional after you figure out what is going on.

 

Two other things I would recommend for her. Finding a team sport and perhaps seeing a counselor. Not because either of those things will help her lose weight but they could help protect and increase her self esteem. It seems she's very discouraged and that's a hard place to be at 12. if she's not interest in a team sport, a group hobby of some sort could really help.

[Caraway]

I have Hashimoto's (thyroid) and PCOS. I'm sure that I was experiencing thyroid symptoms in Jr. High, they just went untreated because my numbers were normal.

 

Since you mentioned you live by Stanford:

 

I have had a very positive experience with the Holtrof Medical Group in Foster City. I currently see Dr. Nancy Evans.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Laurie4b]

I don't think, when people say a 12 year old should not diet, they mean that a diagnosed medical problem should not be treated by diet.

 

Rather - for general weight loss it isn't an appropriate approach at 12, and trying fad diets is not a good idea and likely to cause further problems.

 

 

 

Yes, this. It sounds like she has a medical condition and before making any changes in diet which might or might not be indicated with the medical condition and which might add to the problem with their own negative consequences, I think people are saying push hard for a medical diagnosis that explains what the OP knows to be true about her daughter's eating patterns, constant hunger, and sudden weight gain.  If a specific dietary regime is part of the treatment plan once the diagnosis is known, that's a positive thing. It will be healthy eating for her. What people are expressing concern about, I think, are recommendations for x or y diet before the medical issues are fully known . 

[LucyStoner]

I don't think, when people say a 12 year old should not diet, they mean that a diagnosed medical problem should not be treated by diet.

 

Rather - for general weight loss it isn't an appropriate approach at 12, and trying fad diets is not a good idea and likely to cause further problems.

 

If a 12 year old is in a position of actually needing to lose weight, it should probably be under supervision of someone with real knowledge of the medical situation.

 

Normally, if someone that age is overweight, the recommendation is to hold weight steady while they grow, not to lose. And it should be with a lifelong eating plan, not a 'diet" because that is likely to start a diet-yo-yo problem.

I agree with most of your post but to your last point- a 12 year old girl who has her period is likely fairly close to her adult height. She'd need to grow 9-11 inches to make her weight even put and most women who are going to be 5'9+ are considerably taller than 5 feet at at 12. I was 5'7. My mom was 5'10 at 12. So I can see why the OP would be frustrated with "grow into it" advice.

[kiana]

Yes, this. It sounds like she has a medical condition and before making any changes in diet which might or might not be indicated with the medical condition and which might add to the problem with their own negative consequences, I think people are saying push hard for a medical diagnosis that explains what the OP knows to be true about her daughter's eating patterns, constant hunger, and sudden weight gain.  If a specific dietary regime is part of the treatment plan once the diagnosis is known, that's a positive thing. It will be healthy eating for her. What people are expressing concern about, I think, are recommendations for x or y diet before the medical issues are fully known . 

 

Yes, this. I would honestly be quite reluctant to try any kind of diet which cut entire categories of foods out without an actual diagnosis in a child of this age.

 

It looks like the OP's DD's weight has stopped increasing and is holding steady. So this isn't a matter of urgent necessity -- there's time to continue doing what they're doing now and visit medical professionals. The other thing I'd encourage, OP, is if you are not writing down food logs, that you do so for a while so that you have something to show the doctors. I also think that your dd may feel a lot better mentally if she feels that there's a medical problem and we're going to get to the bottom of this rather than that her body is just failing to respond or, worse yet, that she is somehow failing to try.

[Guest]

I've quickly glanced over the thread so maybe this was mentioned.

 

I have PCOS. I have no cysts. I was diagnosed based on symptoms (facial hair, hair loss, weight in the belly, long cycles, elevated androgen levels). I would get her to a good gyn and get her on metformin. You are also going to need to learn how to make low carb sustainable. It really can be!! I eat almost zero fruit and grains. Lots of veggies and protein. I'd love to eat whatever I want but I just can't. Fruit=poison to my body.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Moxie

[Bluegoat]

I agree with most of your post but to your last point- a 12 year old girl who has her period is likely fairly close to her adult height. She'd need to grow 9-11 inches to make her weight even put and most women who are going to be 5'9+ are considerably taller than 5 feet at at 12. I was 5'7. My mom was 5'10 at 12. So I can see why the OP would be frustrated with "grow into it" advice.

 

Yes, that is true, and I did get the impression that her daughter in particular seems to not be growing.

 

Although - I am just under 160 at 5'6, and whatever the BMI charts say, I am not overweight. 

 

I think though the reasons to be very gentle about weight loss at that age are really strong, there is still a lot going on that nneeds a lot of different nutrients, and you don't want to reduce their access to energy for activities either.

 

And really, even for adult dieters, I suspect very slow loss may often be more permanent than more dramatic results.

[shinyhappypeople]

Yes, this. It sounds like she has a medical condition and before making any changes in diet which might or might not be indicated with the medical condition and which might add to the problem with their own negative consequences, I think people are saying push hard for a medical diagnosis that explains what the OP knows to be true about her daughter's eating patterns, constant hunger, and sudden weight gain.  If a specific dietary regime is part of the treatment plan once the diagnosis is known, that's a positive thing. It will be healthy eating for her. What people are expressing concern about, I think, are recommendations for x or y diet before the medical issues are fully known . 

 

It's not as easy as you think.  We've been pushing for a medical diagnosis for YEARS.  Her former pediatrician: just eat whole foods, no fast food, no junk food (good advice in general, but ... not enough).  

 

Her current health care provider (a nurse practitioner) : see the nutritionist, she has to be eating more than you're saying.  Followed by the nutritionist.  "If she's not getting a fruit or veg with every meal and exercising one full hour a day, that's probably why she's overweight."  Oh my gosh, the last time we saw the NP, I was like, "We need help!  Is there anything else we can do to help DD get to a healthy weight?"  She got this shocked expression on her face and said that DD was only 12 (yes, thank you, I'm aware of her age) and there's no way she (NP) would suggest weight loss surgery at her age.  Um.... who said anything about surgery?  Not me!  I just want to know what's going on.

 

Later, an endo (aka "real doctor who went to medical school") ran the full thyroid panel, including thyroid antibodies (all normal), but had no answers as to DD's glacier-slow weight loss. So she referred us to yet another nutritionist who was clearly more qualified than the others, looked at the examples of DD's eating and had no answers.  She actually taught me how to figure out how many calories DD needs to lose weight and suggested some healthy recipe sites.  So, slightly more helpful.  At least she believed DD.  That's a step in the right direction.

 

Hardly anyone locally accepts our health insurance (it's the Medi-Cal expansion program), so it's nigh impossible to find someone else locally, but I've heard rumors that Stanford does.  So, off we go...

[LucyStoner]

Yes, that is true, and I did get the impression that her daughter in particular seems to not be growing.

 

Although - I am just under 160 at 5'6, and whatever the BMI charts say, I am not overweight.

 

I think though the reasons to be very gentle about weight loss at that age are really strong, there is still a lot going on that nneeds a lot of different nutrients, and you don't want to reduce their access to energy for activities either.

 

And really, even for adult dieters, I suspect very slow loss may often be more permanent than more dramatic results.

I agree about slow loss for sure. More likely to maintain. I was just making the point that this girl's final adult height could be under 5'4". Unless she has very tall parents I wouldn't expect her to add that much more height. So she's most likely not going to be able to just grow into it. And with a 40 pound gain in a single year, something is going on medically which it sounds like most everyone here, including you and I, agree on.

[umsami]

Facing this with my eldest who is of a similar, age, height, and weight.  I haven't found a solution, though.  As somebody who went through two bariatric surgeries and was morbidly obese as an adult, and obese as a kid.... I'm really struggling to not encourage dieting too much, because I know I probably would have remained "just" obese had I not started on the dieting roller coaster at the age of 10.  Yet, being a fat kid is horrible. 

 

One thing we are trying is to increase the variety of fruits, vegetables, nuts, grains, etc. that he eats in hoping to increase the diversity of his gut microbiome.  There's a really good book called "The Diet Myth" by Tim Spector which talks more about this.

[Laurie4b]

It's not as easy as you think.  We've been pushing for a medical diagnosis for YEARS.  Her former pediatrician: just eat whole foods, no fast food, no junk food (good advice in general, but ... not enough).  

 

Her current health care provider (a nurse practitioner) : see the nutritionist, she has to be eating more than you're saying.  Followed by the nutritionist.  "If she's not getting a fruit or veg with every meal and exercising one full hour a day, that's probably why she's overweight."  Oh my gosh, the last time we saw the NP, I was like, "We need help!  Is there anything else we can do to help DD get to a healthy weight?"  She got this shocked expression on her face and said that DD was only 12 (yes, thank you, I'm aware of her age) and there's no way she (NP) would suggest weight loss surgery at her age.  Um.... who said anything about surgery?  Not me!  I just want to know what's going on.

 

Later, an endo (aka "real doctor who went to medical school") ran the full thyroid panel, including thyroid antibodies (all normal), but had no answers as to DD's glacier-slow weight loss. So she referred us to yet another nutritionist who was clearly more qualified than the others, looked at the examples of DD's eating and had no answers.  She actually taught me how to figure out how many calories DD needs to lose weight and suggested some healthy recipe sites.  So, slightly more helpful.  At least she believed DD.  That's a step in the right direction.

 

Hardly anyone locally accepts our health insurance (it's the Medi-Cal expansion program), so it's nigh impossible to find someone else locally, but I've heard rumors that Stanford does.  So, off we go...

 

Oh, I am so sorry! I didn't mean at all to imply it would be "easy" and was not in any way implying criticism of your efforts. I know that some docs just don't press on if what they see doesn't fit into a neat box. Additionally, there is so much prejudice against the overweight, including by their doctors. I think that it's not unlikely that a medical person might choose to believe that the food logs weren't accurate, rather than proceed as if they were and attempt to solve the mystery.  I have a family member who is morbidly obese; he went to a gp for meds for ADHD. The doc refused to prescribe the meds until family member had lost some weight. Huh? Shees! 

 

I am very sorry if my post added at all to your burden. That was not my intention at all! I think your situation sounds very difficult. 

[LucyStoner]

Unless a doctor specializes in this area of practice, being a doctor doesn't mean they have any special knowledge about nutrition, fitness and underlying causes of obesity. It's really hard to get a lot HCPs to take this seriously.

 

I hope the next doctor is better for your daughter and more helpful.

Edited June 2, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Noreen Claire]

Does that include part-skim mozzarella?  That's the only lower fat cheese she eats.  She doesn't eat other dairy because she's become lactose intolerant, I think.  A little cheese doesn't make her sick, but milk or ice cream (poor kid) does.  Thank goodness for coconut milk ice cream :)  It's definitely not low-fat, but it's an awesome treat.

 

If the only dairy she eats is  part-skim mozz, then I don't think it will hurt her. My main protein source was dairy, so switching to whole milk/full-fat was a *big* deal for me. (But, I would try to find whole milk mozz, just because I think low-fat dairy=devil. But that's just me.)

 

Is she getting enough good fats to keep her full? I hate to be one of those "I just started this great diet, here let me tell you why you should, too" people, but I have always been STARVING, especially on WW, until recently when I upped my good fats and protein. But, anecdote=/=science, so take that for what you will.

 

She sounds very strong & healthy, with her dance and exercise. You are doing a great job advocating for her. Stay strong - you will figure this out.

[alisoncooks]

((hugs)) OP and for your DD.  I'm sorry she has to deal with this at such a young age.

 

(My youngest is on the heavy side, at about 95 pounds and just about to turn 8 in a few days.  I struggle with how to approach her health and food and exercise, without letting my own issues/baggage show.)

[umsami]

Oh, one thing we spoke about with DS1's pediatric endocrinologist is metformin.  There have been some studies done with pediatric patients that show a modest decrease in BMI, although the bigger benefit was no increase in BMI.   If PCOS is an underlier for your DD, it may help that as well.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

........

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[ktgrok]

 

I would tell my DD: You are doing everything right. You are exercising, eating well, and making smart choices. This isn't your fault. We are going to find someone who can figure out what is going on, but there's nothing you can do right now, so just relax and be happy.

 

THIS! Let her know she isn't doing anything wrong, this is a medical issue. NOT a psychological one, and she is not bad, weak willed, lazy, etc. 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

 

......

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[Roadrunner]

If she isn't pre diabetic, she is insulin resistant. PCOS is tied to it. Low carb higher dat will be an ideal diet for a pre diabetic and her weight should come off. Why was it unsustainable?

[eternalsummer]

Scientifically, fasting is absolutely beneficial, although some evidence suggests fasting is less beneficial for women than men.  However... it is one thing to understand this intellectually and another to convince a child (CHILD!!!) who already feels hungry constantly to binge and fast for a while just to see what might happen.  Note that religious fasting usually excludes children, elderly, pregnant women, the sick...  

 

 

Islamic fasting seems to indicate it should start at age 10 or 12 (says google) and I am fairly certain that Jewish fasting starts at the age of Bar or Bat Mitzvah (12 or 13).

[ktgrok]

I will say that bariatric doctors DO know about low carb diets, and do advocate them. Duke Medical school's lifestyle medicine clinic advocates it, as does my own bariatric doctor. That said, I'd wait to do anything until you get her to Stanford's clinic.

[eternalsummer]

I am not diabetic, but I do test my own blood sugar regularly through the last few months of every pregnancy (because I am paranoid, and I feel like crap).  It is so easy to do, and not that expensive even buying supplies at Target.  

 

I don't know if that would give you any clues as to insulin resistance but maybe?  If you did get a good 3 weeks of regular monitoring info (with a food log, I assume) and took it to her doctor, would they be more likely to recognize a blood sugar problem if there is one?

[LucyStoner]

To the bolded. This is part of the problem. MOST doctors have NO. FREAKING. CLUE. about nutrition. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. They all say the same thing- eat less, exercise more. Track your calories. Calories in vs. calories out! Everything in moderation. Eats lots of fruit and whole grains! Make sure everything you eat is low fat!

 

*It's all bullshit*

 

I have had gestational diabetes twice, and I have been pre-diabetic and even full on diabetic (for a few months). I have seen tons of doctors and mainstream nutritionists about it. (I could go on and on about these interactions, and how full of crap they were.) They have NEVER been able to help me. Ever. They all give you the same outdated, one size fits all, BAD advice. The only professional who was ever able to help me was the Holistic Nutritionist I saw who told me all about low carb high fat. And I am so thankful that I learned about it, because I would be completely diabetic, and probably on insulin if it wasn't for her. I have never in my adult life felt as good as I have while on a LCHF diet. It's not an unhealthy lifestyle diet to follow either. It would not hurt her at all to follow LCHF until they figure all this out.

 

 

 

Exactly!!!! OP, I have been there. Please, look into the things I have told you. It sounds like your daughter is going through the same things I did, but at a younger age.

Yes, it's not an area of expertise for most doctors. Which is why I think most people are recommending specialists.

[shinyhappypeople]

To the bolded. This is part of the problem. MOST doctors have NO. FREAKING. CLUE. about nutrition. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. They all say the same thing- eat less, exercise more. Track your calories. Calories in vs. calories out! Everything in moderation. Eats lots of fruit and whole grains! Make sure everything you eat is low fat!

 

*It's all bullshit*

 

I have had gestational diabetes twice, and I have been pre-diabetic and even full on diabetic (for a few months). I have seen tons of doctors and mainstream nutritionists about it. (I could go on and on about these interactions, and how full of crap they were.) They have NEVER been able to help me. Ever. They all give you the same outdated, one size fits all, BAD advice. The only professional who was ever able to help me was the Holistic Nutritionist I saw who told me all about low carb high fat. And I am so thankful that I learned about it, because I would be completely diabetic, and probably on insulin if it wasn't for her. I have never in my adult life felt as good as I have while on a LCHF diet. It's not an unhealthy lifestyle diet to follow either. It would not hurt her at all to follow LCHF until they figure all this out.

 

 

Exactly!!!! OP, I have been there. Please, look into the things I have told you. It sounds like your daughter is going through the same things I did, but at a younger age.

:cheers2:

[SeaConquest]

Be aware that some of the most knowledgeable physicians for PCOS are reproductive endocrinologists. I was originally diagnosed with PCOS by seeing a reproductive endocrinologist, even though I wasn't interested in conceiving at the time. You might also consider going to the University of California at San Francisco. They also have top-notch physicians: http://coe.ucsf.edu/pcos/pcos_about.html

 

Edited to add: I know that my mother thought I was sitting around eating bon-bons after I gained a lot of weight. She put a lot of pressure on me to lose weight, and it wasn't until she spent time with me, and saw how much I was exercising and what I was eating, that she realized that there must be an underlying medical condition. She was actually the one that encouraged me to see a doctor. The first doctor I saw told me, "There's just a lot we don't know about obesity, Monique," and sent me on my merry little way. It wasn't until I saw endocrinologist that my life changed.

Edited June 2, 2016 by SeaConquest

[*lifeoftheparty*]

....

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[happypamama]

I agree with the suggestion to get her to a specialist, particularly an endocrinologist.  It sounds to me like PCOS and/or hypothyroid (even if the numbers were "normal"); the two often go together.  Thyroid meds and/or Metformin might really help her.  And YES, PCOS can cause pre-diabetic numbers.  And PCOS comes in different manifestations too.  Are her cycles at all unpredictable or variable?

 

You could inquire about self paying for an endocrinologist visit if you can't find one on your insurance.  The thyroid bloodwork can be expensive, but you can also see if there is somewhere near you that will let you use a sheet from DirectLabs.com, which lowers the cost considerably.

 

Also, you could try getting out-of-network authorization for someone not on your insurance, if you can't find someone suitable who does take your insurance, but I don't know if that's likely or not.

[hornblower]

 and more natural, and more healthy <snip>

 

Why in the world would someone advocate for someone to keep poisoning their bodies, until they get a doctors clearance to stop? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

because the statements you're making (that it's natural & healthy) are controversial (for instance, I'm a high carb vegan & don't believe your plan is evidence based) and because this is a young child who is still growing and developing.

[BooksandBoys]

Since you are planning to go to Stanford, I would be hesitant to change her over to a low carb diet before you begin working with them. Part of the diagnostic process will be taking an A1C, which is a measure of her average blood glucose level over the last 3 months. If you change her diet to low carb (which sounds like it would help her greatly after reading your descriptions of symptoms), her A1C will drop, possibly a lot, in the months it takes to get in to see a Stanford specialist.

 

For what it's worth, I'm another who has inexplicable weight despite doing everything "perfectly." It's not calories in, calories out. I'm mildly insulin resistant. After much experimentation, I now know that I need my eat low carb. 100-150g of carbs daily has me maintaining weight, I lose weight at 50g of carbs or lower. I gain weight rapidly if I eat over 150g daily. A warning: the switch to low carb usually comes with intense hunger for the first week or so. Let her eat as much low carb food as she can during that period of time (remember, it's not calories in, calories out) until her body adjusts.

 

Consider reading "Why We Get Fat" or "Good Calories, Bad Calories" for a bit of info on why calories in, calories out isn't the whole story. It's not the most scientific book, but it's easy to understand and will give you a jumping off point to research further.

 

Edited for autocorrect.

Edited June 2, 2016 by BooksandBoys

[LucyStoner]

But they are also acting like eating a low carb/high fat diet is some dangerous fad that shouldn't be done without a doctors supervision. When in fact, there are lots of cultures, both historical and modern, who have thrived on a naturally low carb/high fat diet. It's less of a fad than eating a standard American diet, and more natural, and more healthy.

 

It's cutting out sugar and grains, neither of which are eaten in their natural states in this country.... even "whole grains" in the American diet are highly processed and modified.

 

And it's limiting the amount of fruit, while adding in fresh vegetables, lean meats, and wholesome fats.

 

What is so dangerous about that? Why should it be treated with caution?? I would treat Weight Watchers and the standard American diet with WAY more caution, and think them WAY more dangerous than low carb/high fat.

 

Why in the world would someone advocate for someone to keep poisoning their bodies, until they get a doctors clearance to stop? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

I've seen up close and personal the stress of switching from diet to diet at a young age. I can't even count the number of people I know who dealt with eating disorders from stressing about weight at a young age. For many of the women I know, it tended to start a lifetime of yo yo dieting.

 

While low carb/high fat works for you and others it absolutely doesn't work for all and can not be a blanket reccomendation for a growing, developing child via interwebz dx.

 

I wouldn't recommend weight watchers, the SAD or any diet be it intermittent fasting, extremely low carb, low or high fat or whatnot until she gets a diagnosis.

 

Relax, stay active, eat what she wants to eat in moderation. None of us can diagnose or prognosticate that it for sure would be helped by x, y or z over the internet. Neither can I be sure that she's at risk for the sort of diet fueled eating disorders I and others are worried about but it's also not really uncommon and it sounds like this is causing mom and daughter a lot of stress right now.

 

A few weeks or a month or so without specifically dieting is not going to "poison her" but it might take the pressure off a bit. She's 12. The less stress the better.

Edited June 2, 2016 by LucyStoner

[*lifeoftheparty*]

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Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[LucyStoner]

?????????????????????????????

 

It's controversial to say that a diet of fresh vegetables and lean protein is healthy and will help combat insulin issues?

You do realize that many many people throughout history have survived and thrived on lean meat and vegetables, with minimal grains, right? You do realize that people in Blue Zones, who live longer and healthier lives than most people, eat diets that are high in vegetables and healthy fats, and moderate in lean protein, right? I don't know of any blue zones that are populated by high carb vegans.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree because I can't even come close to an understanding of your thinking, sorry, feel free to ignore me.

 

 

I think what is controversial is to diagnose a child over the Internet as having what you have just because the symptoms are similar. There is actually more than one thing that could be going on. She could very well have insulin resistance. She could also have a binge eating disorder (yes, I've known tweens to binge privately), Turners, PCOS, or a host of other issues. For the most accurate diagnosis she shouldn't be on any diets when they run the blood panels etc. Edited June 3, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Katy]

So back in the 90's hypoglycemia was a trendy diagnosis.  Being one with blood sugar problems, I got it.  The best diet that helped me was the HAI diet.  http://users.fred.net/slowup/haidiet.txt 

 

It's moderate carbs, the main rule is to limit carb consumption so that you're always eating more protein and fat calories than carb calories at any time.  I would have her try that for six weeks and then reevaluate.  If it lowers her insulin so much she starts forgetting about food, great.  If it helps a little but she's still hungry all the time, I'd cut out the snacks and only eat 2-3 meals a day.  If that doesn't improve her symptoms dramatically, I'd encourage one meal per day.  I would not do dramatic, eat every- other day type things for a 12 year old, but I am certain one meal a day would be completely safe for a month or even six weeks.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

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Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[hornblower]

?????????????????????????????

 

It's controversial to say that a diet of fresh vegetables and lean protein is healthy and will help combat insulin issues?

You do realize that many many people throughout history have survived and thrived on lean meat and vegetables, with minimal grains, right? You do realize that people in Blue Zones, who live longer and healthier lives than most people, eat diets that are high in vegetables and healthy fats, and moderate in lean protein, right? I don't know of any blue zones that are populated by high carb vegans.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree because I can't even come close to an understanding of your thinking, sorry, feel free to ignore me.

 

 

I think perhaps we're talking past each other. A high carb vegan is not eating oreos (which are vegan, btw).

 

 

Vegetables, legumes, whole grains, small amounts of vegetable fats -  I eat essentially a blue zone diet. The blue zone diet has very low amounts of meat or fish. I have none. 

 

 

In the studies of Blue Zones, one of the groups is actually the 7th day adventists from Loma LInda California & they are vegans. 

 

Most vegans are high carb by definition if you consider the 3 *major* macronutrients to be carb, protein & fat. 100% of your calories have to come from those 3 macronutrients. The vast majority of calories for most vegans will come from carbs. 

 

 

p.s. also, can you please down the incredulity a bit? 

Edited June 2, 2016 by hornblower

[Jean in Newcastle]

No, low carb/high fat doesn't work for everyone- that's because everyone is different. But if myself and all these other women recognize the struggles that this girl is having, because we have been there, and we know what works for us- why in the world would we not share that? No one ever said it was a blanket recommendation.

 

This poor girl is going through the same issues we all had. We know how much it sucks. We know how crappy it makes you feel. And we ALSO know what makes it feel better, and what makes it easier.

 

It will not hurt one bit for the OP to slowly make small changes towards a healthier lifestyle, not temporary diet, if it means that it will make her daughter healthier and happier.

 

Excuse me for trying to help people out. Next time I come across someone drowning, I'll stand there and tell them to wait for the professionals to show up.

 

Really?  We've all gained 40 pounds in one year (not including pregnancy)? 

 

She already has a healthy lifestyle which includes a nutritionist approved healthy diet and lots of exercise. 

 

This is a medical problem.  Let me say it again.  It is a medical problem.  You help out people with medical problems by referring them to where they can get medical advice. 

 

OP - I know how very frustrating it is to get medical advice on this topic even from medical professionals.  I hope that you can go to Stanford because they are specialists in helping children like your daughter get age appropriate treatment. 

 

[Ellie]

 

 

Later, an endo (aka "real doctor who went to medical school") ran the full thyroid panel, including thyroid antibodies (all normal), but had no answers as to DD's glacier-slow weight loss. So she referred us to yet another nutritionist who was clearly more qualified than the others, looked at the examples of DD's eating and had no answers.  She actually taught me how to figure out how many calories DD needs to lose weight and suggested some healthy recipe sites.  So, slightly more helpful.  At least she believed DD.  That's a step in the right direction.

 

 

 

Just because it was an endo does not mean that (1) she ordered the labs that really meant anything, and (2) that she actually understands lab results. The only lab tests that mean anything are Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3. (Testing for antibodies is important, but it doesn't negate the need for FT3, FT4, and RT3). Free T3 levels should be in the upper fourth of the lab's ranges, FT4 in the upper half, and RT3 above 20. "Normal" means "most people's levels are between *here* and *here*; it does NOT mean "all people whose levels fall anywhere on the scale between *here* and *here* have great thyroid function."

 

Among thyroid sufferers, endos have a terrible rep, because they generally do a really bad job of diagnosing and treating thyroid disease. Sad but true.

 

Ask for those labs: Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3. Throw in TSH if you must. If she will not order those, find a doctor who will. Or see about ordering them yourself. Check out this page on the Stop the Thyroid Madness site.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Ellie

[LucyStoner]

No, low carb/high fat doesn't work for everyone- that's because everyone is different. But if myself and all these other women recognize the struggles that this girl is having, because we have been there, and we know what works for us- why in the world would we not share that? No one ever said it was a blanket recommendation.

 

This poor girl is going through the same issues we all had. We know how much it sucks. We know how crappy it makes you feel. And we ALSO know what makes it feel better, and what makes it easier.

 

It will not hurt one bit for the OP to slowly make small changes towards a healthier lifestyle, not temporary diet, if it means that it will make her daughter healthier and happier.

 

Excuse me for trying to help people out. Next time I come across someone drowning, I'll stand there and tell them to wait for the professionals to show up.

You seem to be taking this really personally. There's no need for snark and sarcasm. Or calling diets that aren't low carb "poison"

 

I'm betting low carb high fat is what works for a lot of posters on this thread advocating caution around dieting for a 12 year old without a specific, confirmed diagnosis of what is going on.

 

It seems from the first post that the girl has tried many diets including low carb and has had the same 5-7 pound loss and then stall out on each one. I'm guessing trying low carb isn't a new idea for them.

 

At 12, the first thing to worry about is not how fast she loses weight. There's a 12 year old girl who might really benefit from getting appropriate specialist care and knowing that this is not her fault. Unless the waitlist to see someone is months and months, I don't see what could possibly be ill advised about just letting her relax, stay active and look forwards to the appointment. I'm assuming that doctors at a top university childhood obesity clinic have seen it all and are competent to help her in a way other HCPs have not and mostly can not.

Edited June 2, 2016 by LucyStoner

[*lifeoftheparty*]

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Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*

[*lifeoftheparty*]

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Edited December 18, 2016 by *lifeoftheparty*