WWYD? Difficult situation

[FaithManor]

If they show up at the house I would call the police. This is not good.

 

They test drove the car and did not get it inspected though it is a high mileage vehicle. Their loss, their problem. The fact that this guy keeps escalating concerns me.

[Pink and Green Mom]

I would definitely call the police nonemergency line and ask what to do if the son shows up after you said no.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Pink and Green Mom

[blessedx5]

he was actually being decent and he hasn't technically threatened us.... but maybe that is so there is no proof via texts..kwim?  The only reason he wanted to send the son to our house was to pick up what he thought of was our "half" or "our contribution" to the repairs.   We live on a small cul de sac with only about 15 houses..my neighbor almost lives directly across the road from us and he is a deputy sheriff for our county.  I don't know him super well but I can go over and talk to him today.  We also have a friend on the police force of our town.  I can have DH get in contact with him today.  I researched all about private sells in our state and everything that I came up with said it's an "as is" transaction UNLESS it can be proved we somehow scammed him which we didn't.  I also looked up the small claims court process.  It's fairly cheap to do but he would have to do so in our county and would again have to prove something.  Yes a judge could side with him since it happened so soon after the car was bought/sold but I also would argue i have no idea what happened when the car left here.  

 

btw...we do have a fairly good sized dog...and the dog would go after someone trying to harm us.  I don't want to use that though because in our county anyone that comes in to our yard and is bitten can have our dog taken no matter the circumstances.  

Edited May 18, 2016 by blessedx5

[barnwife]

To sue here, he'd have to file on one day, a couple weeks later show up to say here, and a couple weeks after that get to present his case to a judge.  Not going to happen, obviously he's not the brightest and probably couldn't stand to walk into a court house voluntarily.  

[flyingiguana]

You're right -- you have no idea what happened to that car while it was in their possession.  You aren't responsible for anything that happened during that period.  Either legally or morally.

 

*IF* you were convinced that it was a developing problem from your ownership of the car, and if you should have known about it, then I can see some sense of responsibility.  But that doesn't appear to be the situation from what you describe.

[Alessandra]

he was actually being decent and he hasn't technically threatened us.... but maybe that is so there is no proof via texts..kwim? The only reason he wanted to send the son to our house was to pick up what he thought of was our "half" or "our contribution" to the repairs. We live on a small cul de sac with only about 15 houses..my neighbor almost lives directly across the road from us and he is a deputy sheriff for our county. I don't know him super well but I can go over and talk to him today. We also have a friend on the police force of our town. I can have DH get in contact with him today. I researched all about private sells in our state and everything that I came up with said it's an "as is" transaction UNLESS it can be proved we somehow scammed him which we didn't. I also looked up the small claims court process. It's fairly cheap to do but he would have to do so in our county and would again have to prove something. Yes a judge could side with him since it happened so soon after the car was bought/sold but I also would argue i have no idea what happened when the car left here.

 

btw...we do have a fairly good sized dog...and the dog would go after someone trying to harm us. I don't want to use that though because in our county anyone that comes in to our yard and is bitten can have our dog taken no matter the circumstances.

I am glad you have the big dog and the police contacts!

 

However, imho, I see it as threatening that someone would come to my house to collect money that I have not agreed to pay. Ymmv, obviously, but 'decent' is not the word I'd use to describe his behavior. Sorry, I don't mean this as criticism, just as a different point of view. But I don't have a dog or Sheriff neighbor, lol, so would tend to see threats differently.

 

I am getting a funny picture of Judge Judy saying, 'You bought a 2000,000 mile car and did not have it checked? Dismissed!"

 

ETA

What constitutes a threat varies by states. In some states, an action that causes another person to be fearful or terrified may constitute a threat, even if specific criminal behavior is not mentioned. There are also laws about phony debt collection. I think coming to someone's house to collect a debt may be problematic, especially if the son is acting as the agent for the dad/car's owner. Perhaps a WTMer with legal expertise can weigh in.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Alessandra

[QueenCat]

he was actually being decent and he hasn't technically threatened us.... but maybe that is so there is no proof via texts..kwim?  The only reason he wanted to send the son to our house was to pick up what he thought of was our "half" or "our contribution" to the repairs.   We live on a small cul de sac with only about 15 houses..my neighbor almost lives directly across the road from us and he is a deputy sheriff for our county.  I don't know him super well but I can go over and talk to him today.  We also have a friend on the police force of our town.  I can have DH get in contact with him today.  I researched all about private sells in our state and everything that I came up with said it's an "as is" transaction UNLESS it can be proved we somehow scammed him which we didn't.  I also looked up the small claims court process.  It's fairly cheap to do but he would have to do so in our county and would again have to prove something.  Yes a judge could side with him since it happened so soon after the car was bought/sold but I also would argue i have no idea what happened when the car left here.  

 

btw...we do have a fairly good sized dog...and the dog would go after someone trying to harm us.  I don't want to use that though because in our county anyone that comes in to our yard and is bitten can have our dog taken no matter the circumstances.  

 

I'd say he's threatening you in a passive aggressive manner. He's "acting" decent but no decent person tells you he's sending his son to get the money when you haven't agreed to it.

[Scarlett]

Creepy for sure but I seriously doubt he will show up.  He is just trying to scam you and if you don't bite he will move on.

 

But if he does show up call the police.

[Pippen]

We had a Ford van transmission die suddenly without warning signs, at least none that we recognized. The problem was widespread, and about a year later Ford issued a recall and reimbursed the full cost of the replacement, which I believe was about $3500. I don't remember the mileage on our van at the time but I believe it was around 100,000. 

 

My transmission died in the middle of an intersection, and I lost the ability to do anything except steer and brake. Very scary but at least the intersection wasn't busy at the time. It was very dangerous and scary for those it happened to on the highway and/or in busy traffic.

 

That said, if someone showed up to collect on money I hadn't agreed to reimburse, I agree to consider it a threat and call the police. 

[plansrme]

he was actually being decent 

 

No, no he wasn't being decent.  Saying, "I'm going to show up and take money you haven't agreed to pay" is not being decent; it's extortion or theft or something, but it's not decent.

[clementine]

My hubby said 'NO WAY' to paying a cent to any repairs.  He knows vehicles & a private sale without having a mechanic looking at it & from honest sellers.....there is a 'taillight warranty'.  Once the taillights disappear, the sale is completed.  

[blessedx5]

well I said decent... can't remember his exact words but it was more like "I can send my son" which I didn't really consider a threat.  BTW..anyone know what happens on other end when you block someone from texting and calling on an iPhone? I know the texts won't go through but I read the calls go instantly to voicemail?

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

well I said decent... can't remember his exact words but it was more like "I can send my son" which I didn't really consider a threat.  BTW..anyone know what happens on other end when you block someone from texting and calling on an iPhone? I know the texts won't go through but I read the calls go instantly to voicemail?

 

It may not be threatening but it is pressuring.  And pressuring done often enough and relentlessly enough can turn into threatening. 

[Plink]

Sometimes it is okay to feel sorry for someone, yet do nothing to fix their problem.

 

We sold a nicely restored 120 year old house to a woman who knew nothing about the constant tinkering that owning an older house requires.  She called a week after closing in a panic because she "needed" (wanted) a new bathroom faucet and couldn't change it because the plumbing didn't match anything sold at Lowes.  

 

DH could have easily gone over and changed the faucet for her, but decided not to.  We sold the house.  She bought it.  Things break.  As heartless as it sounds, helping once would have opened a can of worms that we didn't want to deal with, so we bluntly told her no.

 

I still feel sorry for her though.  She was in way over her head.

 

 

 

ETA:  Umm... how could you possibly pay half of a sum he hasn't actually received a bill for yet?  His need for immediate payment is making his instant-transmission-failure story sound fishier by the second.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Plink

[emmaluv+2more]

well I said decent... can't remember his exact words but it was more like "I can send my son" which I didn't really consider a threat.  BTW..anyone know what happens on other end when you block someone from texting and calling on an iPhone? I know the texts won't go through but I read the calls go instantly to voicemail?

 

Texts vanish into oblivion; you will never know he sent any.  Calls go straight to voicemail.  You can access blocked voicemails at the bottom of the voicemail screen where it says "Blocked Messages".  He will never know he is blocked.

 

Good luck in all of this.  PSA: never complete a sale at your home.  Always meet in a neutral, public area. 

[Tap]

Texts vanish into oblivion; you will never know he sent any.  Calls go straight to voicemail.  You can access blocked voicemails at the bottom of the voicemail screen where it says "Blocked Messages".  He will never know he is blocked.

 

Good luck in all of this.  PSA: never complete a sale at your home.  Always meet in a neutral, public area. 

Generally a good idea.....but with a car sale, the sellers name and the address is generally on the title.

 If not there, then it is on the bill of sale.

 

Or..They can simply google the sellers name to get the address (or even the cell number you talked to them on).

Or...With about 5 minutes of work, they can look on the tax websites and find the home address that way. 

Or...If they really wanted to find the person, they can run the license plates in the state system for a small fee to get the address..

 

 

 

I do all of my normal Craigslist sales at Starbucks. but with a car, it isn't as private.

[emmaluv+2more]

Generally a good idea.....but with a car sale, the sellers name and the address is generally on the title.

 If not there, then it is on the bill of sale.

 

Or..They can simply google the sellers name to get the address (or even the cell number you talked to them on).

Or...With about 5 minutes of work, they can look on the tax websites and find the home address that way. 

Or...If they really wanted to find the person, they can run the license plates in the state system for a small fee to get the address..

 

 

 

I do all of my normal Craigslist sales at Starbucks. but with a car, it isn't as private.

 

Truce, my friend, truce.  It was a simple recommendation; not looking to derail and not looking to argue.  It's just always a good idea.  People can find people in any given transaction.  No need to make it easier for them.

[blessedx5]

yes normally we do transactions at a public location...with a car it's different.  Our address was on the bill of sale and title so..

[Alicia64]

well I said decent... can't remember his exact words but it was more like "I can send my son" which I didn't really consider a threat.  BTW..anyone know what happens on other end when you block someone from texting and calling on an iPhone? I know the texts won't go through but I read the calls go instantly to voicemail?

 

Please keep in mind that people who are good at scams come across as decent, hard working people.

 

Ted Bundy got away with such evil because he was so good at playing the sweet, boy-next-door type. Often the awful people aren't wearing horns.

 

Let's say for a moment that everything happened the way this guy said. . . he still doesn't understand the risk we all take on when buying a used car. If I buy a car from you: I'm assuming a certain level of risk.

 

You've done nothing wrong.

 

I'd flat out tell him on the phone that the cops will be called if you see him or the son in your neighborhood.

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

 

ETA:  Umm... how could you possibly pay half of a sum he hasn't actually received a bill for yet?  His need for immediate payment is making his instant-transmission-failure story sound fishier by the second.

 

Yeah, that hurry-and-pay-me-now!! thing is a scam giveaway.

 

The scammer is trying to trip you up while you're in panic mode -- before you have a chance to calm down and be logical.

 

Alley

[GinaPagnato]

You also want to make sure you've given him no indication that you're willing to pay any money for anything. Depending on the conversations that have taken place, he may think you're amenable to contributing funds of some amount. Be very clear and in no uncertain terms, let him know you won't be paying anything.

 

Good luck! How stressful.

[flyingiguana]

If the son does come by, check to see if he's driving your old car that still needs to be "fixed"

[flyingiguana]

A scam my husband fell for: a guy is driving around and around in a parking lot, begging money off people because he's out of gas.

 

It took some time to make my husband understand that someone who was out of gas wouldn't have the engine running.

[blessedx5]

well as it stands now we have no idea what will transpire.  I am preparing for him to take us to small claims court and if so we will deal with it then.  This is just so stressful for DH and him trying to do his job.  That is mainly why he blocked the guy... he just didn't want the constant interruption all day at work.  

[FaithManor]

well as it stands now we have no idea what will transpire.  I am preparing for him to take us to small claims court and if so we will deal with it then.  This is just so stressful for DH and him trying to do his job.  That is mainly why he blocked the guy... he just didn't want the constant interruption all day at work.  

Try not to worry. While it is unnerving to be taken to court, the law is on your side. It is statistically unlikely that he would be awarded anything, and he has to pay the court costs.

[TranquilMind]

We drive an old van, the transmission is limping along but we know it's going to go out eventually--it slips and is not smooth. I'm not an expert on cars but I think if the transmission were that far gone the person who drove the car regularly would have been aware of something.

 

I had tiny hesitations before kicking into gear once with a Honda, years ago. Hondas were known at that time for losing their transmissions.  I didn't really recognize what they were, as it was just a little hesitation.  When it finally died, I was in the garage and not going anywhere.

 

It also happened with a Ford a few years ago.  Little but noticeable slips, though this time I was wondering what was happening and making plans to take it in.  Then suddenly, while driving my son home, as I was sitting stopped at a red light, the transmission gave way.  I accelerated, got up to maybe 10 mph, and then nothing. It would rev up but not move.   I had a huge line of traffic backed up behind me.  Men got out and pushed me out of the way.  That was it.  I had to call a tow truck. $1000 right there. 

So, it is possible to not really know that transmission death is imminent.  The signs can be pretty subtle if you don't really know what you are looking for.  They were different with both my cars, and almost undetectable on the Honda. 

[Murphy101]

well as it stands now we have no idea what will transpire. I am preparing for him to take us to small claims court and if so we will deal with it then. This is just so stressful for DH and him trying to do his job. That is mainly why he blocked the guy... he just didn't want the constant interruption all day at work.

I seriously doubt anything at all will happen. It takes money to go to court, probably more than just paying for fixing it himself. And it's doubtful he would be awarded even if he did.

 

If he shows up, I wouldn't even answer the door. Just say through it, the cops have been called and let the cops do their job. But really I doubt he will come by. It was most likely just a hot air pressure scare tactic.

[blessedx5]

we had a van once.... I left my house and not 2 minutes down the road I realized it was acting funny....turned around came back to the house.... dh came home and it wouldn't go anywhere.  So yes it can happen suddenly.    Will wait and see what happens though... he was pretty angry with the first couple phone calls to my husband and not very happy with our final texts to him.

 

 I was in the house with our children when they guy and his 2 sons came to look at the car.... I thought the man drove the car farther than he did when he test drove it..however DH said he drove literally 2 minutes down the road, came back wanted to buy it...that quick.  DH handed him the keys to drive to get title notarized and the man declined and told my DH to drive since he knew where he was going.  Even after the man gave my husband the cash he still didn't not want to drive the car back to our house to drop my husband off.  Now I'm sitting here thinking..... is this cash this man gave me that we still have COUNTEFEIT?????? Yikes.  The way this whole story has gone.... it makes me wonder...

 

Deb

Edited May 19, 2016 by blessedx5

[TX Native]

we had a van once.... I left my house and not 2 minutes down the road I realized it was acting funny....turned around came back to the house.... dh came home and it wouldn't go anywhere. So yes it can happen suddenly. Will wait and see what happens though... he was pretty angry with the first couple phone calls to my husband and not very happy with our final texts to him.

 

I was in the house with our children when they guy and his 2 sons came to look at the car.... I thought the man drove the car farther than he did when he test drove it..however DH said he drove literally 2 minutes down the road, came back wanted to buy it...that quick. DH handed him the keys to drive to get it notarized and the man declined and told my DH to drive since he knew where he was going. Even after the man gave my husband the cash he still didn't not want to drive the car back to our house to drop my husband off. Now I'm sitting here thinking..... is this cash this man gave me that we still have COUNTEFEIT?????? Yikes. The way this whole story has gone.... it makes me wonder...

 

Deb

Well if it is counterfeit, you have his name and contact info to report it.

 

I don't care how guilty you feel and how many post that their transmission problems showed up suddenly, this man's problem IS NOT your moral or financial responsibility. Even if he is being honest, you are not obligated to do a thing. You are not obligated to respond to his calls or door knocks no matter what.

 

ETA: I don't understand how you said he was decent to you on the phone earlier and now you are saying he was very angry with you. Being angry in phone calls and in response to messages with someone who did nothing wrong is not decent.

Edited May 19, 2016 by TX native

[blessedx5]

Yes..thank you all so much for your responses....it has helped to hear from others that we shouldn't feel guilty or responsible.  This has been so stressful for both DH and I.  We are both very compassionate and caring people and it's difficult to be that way in a situation like this where you have to be "all business" 

 

I have to remind myself the law wouldn't be this way if there wasn't a good reason for it.... these used car deals need to be "as is" because there is too much that can go wrong unexpectedly with a car.

Edited May 19, 2016 by blessedx5

[TX Native]

Yes..thank you all so much for your responses....it has helped to hear from others that we shouldn't feel guilty or responsible. This has been so stressful for both DH and I. We are both very compassionate and caring people and it's difficult to be that way in a situation like this where you have to be "all business"

 

I have to remind myself the law wouldn't be this way if there wasn't a good reason for it.... these used car deals need to be "as is" because there is too much that can go wrong unexpectedly with a car.

I can tell you are very compassionate and caring, but I do think this has also made you vulnerable in this situation. I hate dealing with crooked people. Hate it. I would likely feel the same as you and I would worry unnecessarily. That is why in my heart I really want you to feel released emotionally from this situation. Looking from the outside it is easier to call the kettle black. Continue to be honest and caring. If this man's action didn't scream scam artist, I would have a less cold response about someone who is in the situation he claims to be in. Keep remembering the likelihood of his story being true is minimal. Edited May 19, 2016 by TX native

[Guest]

Any update?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I am glad you have the big dog and the police contacts!

 

However, imho, I see it as threatening that someone would come to my house to collect money that I have not agreed to pay. Ymmv, obviously, but 'decent' is not the word I'd use to describe his behavior. Sorry, I don't mean this as criticism, just as a different point of view. But I don't have a dog or Sheriff neighbor, lol, so would tend to see threats differently.

 

I am getting a funny picture of Judge Judy saying, 'You bought a 2000,000 mile car and did not have it checked? Dismissed!"

 

ETA

What constitutes a threat varies by states. In some states, an action that causes another person to be fearful or terrified may constitute a threat, even if specific criminal behavior is not mentioned. There are also laws about phony debt collection. I think coming to someone's house to collect a debt may be problematic, especially if the son is acting as the agent for the dad/car's owner. Perhaps a WTMer with legal expertise can weigh in.

As presented by the OP, nothing said by there son via text would constitute a threat, or even be close to one. Trying to get a restraining order would get her laughed out of court.

[Lanny]

When we buy something "Brand New", I assume that 50% of the cost is for the warranty.  If someone buys something used (in this case a car) it is "let the buyer beware".  If the car was not abused, after the buyer took delivery, I would join you in feeling bad for the buyer, but you have no way of knowing how it was driven after the buyer took delivery and IMO you have *NO* legal responsibility to give the buyer a partial refund.  I suspect doing so could expose you to eventual legal problems, where the buyer wants *more* money to be refunded.  

 

We have great luck (normally) with Samsung products.  4 TVs, a large washing machine, and my Android phone.  3 days ago, my wife went to a superstore and she bought a Samsung Microwave Oven.  It doesn't behave the way we think it should.  I told her a few minutes ago, "I have the box, etc., you have the receipt, I suggest you take it back tomorrow and exchange it for another brand".    That's a Brand New product and we have the Warranty and the superstore to stand behind it, and we paid for that. If we'd purchased a Used Microwave Oven and it had issues, I would consider that to be our problem.

 

 

[blessedx5]

No update.....nothing else has transpired.... at this point just going on with life and if anything shall arise we will deal with it.  However our neighbors are aware and are keeping their eyes open to any potential issues.  

[blessedx5]

No update.....nothing else has transpired.... at this point just going on with life and if anything shall arise we will deal with it.  However our neighbors are aware and are keeping their eyes open to any potential issues.  

[Alicia64]

No update.....nothing else has transpired.... at this point just going on with life and if anything shall arise we will deal with it.  However our neighbors are aware and are keeping their eyes open to any potential issues.  

 

This is what I figured would happen. He tried to scare you, it didn't work, and he's moved onto someone else.

 

I don't agree about the restraining order. I think you could have made a case. (The guy was acting really creepy and the courts know what a scam artist is all about.)

 

That said, restraining orders don't usually work -- they're known for doing nothing against abusive husbands. I think Nicole Simpson had one on OJ. Abusive people don't let a piece of paper stop them. Sadly.

 

Hang in there. We had something happen w/ a guy in March who we thought was completely normal. When things didn't go his way he started acting off-kilter. Freaked us out. He knew where we lived too. He even got to keep our money. Thankfully we ignored him and he went away. Scary people are scary, right?

 

Alley

[Pen]

I didn't think transmissions tended to totally die suddenly without prior warning. Were there transmission issue signs?

[Tsuga]

As a used car buyer, I agree with those who say scam. I mean really, tranny dies just boom, no warning? No check engine, nothing? No, sorry.

 

Also, you buy as-is. If he wanted a reliable car with a warranty he could go to a dealer and buy certified pre-owned.

 

That said, if I ever sell my car used it will be to a dealer. Let them drop pennies on the dollar for it, because I can sell it to them with a 100% clear conscience. Transmission drops out of nowhere, no problem. They were going to part it out anyway.

 

Sorry you are facing this, OP.

[heartlikealion]

Maybe get one of those special pens to check the money or take to bank to have them check the cash? Actually, you don't need the pen. Just hold up to the light and look for the strip down inside the bill and also the tiny red/blue hairs on money. At least, that is what I did at my last cashier job.

[Alessandra]

This is what I figured would happen. He tried to scare you, it didn't work, and he's moved onto someone else.

 

I don't agree about the restraining order. I think you could have made a case. (The guy was acting really creepy and the courts know what a scam artist is all about.)

 

That said, restraining orders don't usually work -- they're known for doing nothing against abusive husbands. I think Nicole Simpson had one on OJ. Abusive people don't let a piece of paper stop them. Sadly.

 

Hang in there. We had something happen w/ a guy in March who we thought was completely normal. When things didn't go his way he started acting off-kilter. Freaked us out. He knew where we lived too. He even got to keep our money. Thankfully we ignored him and he went away. Scary people are scary, right?

 

Alley

Totally agree that restraining orders don't protect in and of themselves. But I think of calling the police to say that someone is on a public road outside my house versus restraining order call. RO makes it easier for police to do something. But op's dog and neighbor sound as though they could discourage a visitor as effectively as police, lol.

 

Thank goodness, the situation has cooled down. But it must have been very alarming at the time.

 

I hope the nasty guy just fades away. Good luck, op!