maize Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I just noticed that Maize is following this topic..... Indeed, it is a matter of great personal interest ;) 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Those of you who didn't know that 'corn' was a generic word meaning 'grain'- where did you think the word came from? If the settlers didn't apply a familiar word to an unfamiliar crop, how did you think it was coined? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 This thread is really interesting. I'm all ears. I see what you did there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SporkUK Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Those of you who didn't know that 'corn' was a generic word meaning 'grain'- where did you think the word came from? If the settlers didn't apply a familiar word to an unfamiliar crop, how did you think it was coined? Well, tomato is a Spanish take of a Nahuatl word and chili is a Nahuatl word. There are plenty of foods from the Americas which still use names either from or derived from actual American nation's words for foods that colonizers used and we still use. I guess they coined these terms by communicating with locals like most of us now would probably do for things we found unfamiliar things in a strange place. It would explain why so many died from unprepared maize... I asked my British husband, who is trained as an archaeological scientist who made displays in museums, and he says he would assume any modern text using the word corn would mean maize or sweetcorn unless it was a direct quote from someone in the appropriate time and then they would put the modern term in brackets if in a museum or education piece for clarity. Putting forward something that presumes knowledge of archaic use of language would not work. He is also the type who will tell off the TV regularly if there is history programme on that is wrong and/or putting forth the most sensational and usually least supported choice out of a range of choices so I imagine many others are more flexible than him about this ;) 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Has this thread gone to seed or what? (Best I could come up with...) 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Those of you who didn't know that 'corn' was a generic word meaning 'grain'- where did you think the word came from? If the settlers didn't apply a familiar word to an unfamiliar crop, how did you think it was coined? The same place any other word comes from? Invented, or adopted from the people who gave it to them, or borrowed from an old language for a new use. I wouldn't assume that potato was a generic word for root veg. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I said Einkorn but I've been binge watching TGC's History of Food and that's what the Professor/lecturer called it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I think that's confusing terminology for an American audience. Most Americans don't know "corn" can mean anything but "maize." I know that... but the way I know it was reading statements like that in history books, getting confused, and seeking out a clarification. So now, years down the road, I know. But I think to 90% or more of Americans that would be misleading. My understanding is that Brits and other English speakers may use the broader definition more often. This fall as I've been reading Robinson Crusoe to my dd is the first time I had ever heard "corn" used to mean something other than "maize!" It was obvious from the context that he didn't mean maize (he talked about harvesting rice), but I assumed it was a word that had changed over time--and not that it might still be used in a broader sense elsewhere. Learned something new! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Maybe that is a weird question, and a bit off a tangent... I grew up Christian, and even though there were modern Bible German translations, people are familiar with the most important stories in the words of the Luther bible, since that was the first German translation. It plays a big role for the language. Luther's, to the modern ear slightly archaic, German is intimately associated with the feeling of biblical language. So does the King James Bible not play a comparable role in the English speaking world? Are American Christians exposed to it? If so, do people then imagine Joseph actually seeing ears of maize in his dream, since the word "corn" is used there? I mean, it's one of those important stories every child who is exposed to the Bible encounters - so most people must have images in their minds. I know about the illustration Maize encountered, so there must be at least one clueless illustrator, but is that actually the prevailing image? Just curious, since this was one of my favorite childhood bible stories. ETA: And archaic bible translations are extremely vocabulary enriching.. I learned words that I have never heard in any other text. Edited December 31, 2015 by regentrude 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Grain of some kind, probably barley or wheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Maybe that is a weird question, and a bit off a tangent... I grew up Christian, and even though there were modern Bible German translations, people are familiar with the most important stories in the words of the Luther bible, since that was the first German translation. It plays a big role for the language. Luther's, to the modern ear slightly archaic, German is intimately associated with the feeling of biblical language. So does the King James Bible not play a comparable role in the English speaking world? Are American Christians exposed to it? If so, do people then imagine Joseph actually seeing ears of maize in his dream, since the word "corn" is used there? I mean, it's one of those important stories every child who is exposed to the Bible encounters - so most people must have images in their minds. I know about the illustration Maize encountered, so there must be at least one clueless illustrator, but is that actually the prevailing image? Just curious, since this was one of my favorite childhood bible stories. ETA: And archaic bible translations are extremely vocabulary enriching.. I learned words that I have never heard in any other text. I am fairly certain that it was in Sunday School that I learned corn = grain and that what we call "corn" in the U.S. is called maize in other countries. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I'm another person that learned that corn=grain from Bible study. It is stuff like this that leads my athiest son to say the most important part of his education was Family Worship. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) yes. Botanically, fresh corn kernels are fruit. Corn isn't a vegetable because vegetables are the parts of plants that do not contain the seed bearing structures. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-blog/fruit-vegetable-difference/bgp-20056141 I only meant that here at least, many parents of stubborn toddlers may say "yes, my johny ate a vegetable for supper. He ate corn." My older parents were taught that corn is a vegetable, and it is about the only "vegetable" they eat Edited December 31, 2015 by athomeontheprairie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yes - only in American English. Merriam Webster's second definition gives 'corn' to mean whatever is the dominant grain crop in an area, including oats in Scotland: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/corn Interestingly, Merriam Webster seems to imply that Scotland is not part of Britain.... The second definition, pfft, who reads that? Seriously though, this is all very interesting. I knew other countries called it maize but I had no idea "corn" was so widely used to mean grain. Today I learned! Also, the midwife told me that corn gets counted as a half fruit/vegetable, half grain, as do potatoes. They did that to be nice. "But," she clarified, "It's not really. We just don't want to discourage people from eating real food." I had the best midwife in the world. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 The second definition, pfft, who reads that? Seriously though, this is all very interesting. I knew other countries called it maize but I had no idea "corn" was so widely used to mean grain. Today I learned! Also, the midwife told me that corn gets counted as a half fruit/vegetable, half grain, as do potatoes. They did that to be nice. "But," she clarified, "It's not really. We just don't want to discourage people from eating real food." I had the best midwife in the world. :) Sweet corn actually has a pretty decent nutritional profile, different from that of grain corn. http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/sweet-corn.html 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Well, tomato is a Spanish take of a Nahuatl word and chili is a Nahuatl word. There are plenty of foods from the Americas which still use names either from or derived from actual American nation's words for foods that colonizers used and we still use. I guess they coined these terms by communicating with locals like most of us now would probably do for things we found unfamiliar things in a strange place. It would explain why so many died from unprepared maize... That makes sense: 'corn' just sounds like such an Old English one-syllable word to me that I wouldn't think beyond that, I suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 That makes sense: 'corn' just sounds like such an Old English one-syllable word to me that I wouldn't think beyond that, I suppose. We do use an awful lot of Native American derived words in the US, they make up a significant proportion of our place names alone. We probably don't differentiate as easily between native English and loan words. Squash doesn't sound particularly less English than corn to me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 My children's Bible showed corn stalks. I specifically remember counting them. I don't believe I've read that story in the Bible though, but I think I'm going to now. For the purposes of ensuring a nutritional meal, we only count green veggies as vegetables which discludes potatoes, corn, carrots, squashes. A lot of time dinner guests will question why we have two or three vegetables with the meal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 And, after having been MIA for a few days, and having gotten further in SWB's book, I can say that in chapter 18 she writes that the Mesopotamians grew wheat (I'm assuming ancient versions like einkorn and emmer), and over time switched to barley. The switch from wheat to barley occurred because barley can handle more salty soils, and due to centuries of irrigation, the land in Mesopotamia was getting saltier and saltier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Because corn means grain (and the two words are cognates, in fact). Consider corned beef. Is that made with yellow corn? No, it's made with corns (grains) of salt. Corned beef is named for the pepper corns that give it flavor. If it were just salt, it would be salt beef- like salt pork. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRobinson Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I just caught this thread on Tuesday and had an interesting conversation with dd about grains, did she think corn was a vegetable, etc. Yesterday, we were listening to music while doing chores and a line in the song was "each head of grain" and she shouts "or corn!!!" :D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Corned beef is named for the pepper corns that give it flavor. If it were just salt, it would be salt beef- like salt pork. You are incorrect. It is corned beef because it has been "corned", that is, preserved with corns (grains) of salt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I voted einkorn because I studied domestication of wheat, Neolithic revolution, and so on, in college. I love this poll, because it reassured me that at least part of my brain can still remember things, lol. I also have a more recent memory of reading my kids Corn Is Maize, in the Let's Read and Find Out series, emphasizes American origin. I have the Science in Ancient Mesopotamia book too, don't remember the corn part, but would probably double check that the book was English. But corn can be a confusing word, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2Es Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Apparently I'm the only person on this thread whose pantry has einkorn flour. It makes lovely pancakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Maybe that is a weird question, and a bit off a tangent... I grew up Christian, and even though there were modern Bible German translations, people are familiar with the most important stories in the words of the Luther bible, since that was the first German translation. It plays a big role for the language. Luther's, to the modern ear slightly archaic, German is intimately associated with the feeling of biblical language. So does the King James Bible not play a comparable role in the English speaking world? Are American Christians exposed to it? If so, do people then imagine Joseph actually seeing ears of maize in his dream, since the word "corn" is used there? I mean, it's one of those important stories every child who is exposed to the Bible encounters - so most people must have images in their minds. I know about the illustration Maize encountered, so there must be at least one clueless illustrator, but is that actually the prevailing image? Just curious, since this was one of my favorite childhood bible stories. ETA: And archaic bible translations are extremely vocabulary enriching.. I learned words that I have never heard in any other text. I remember seeing it illustrated the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I voted other because i knew it couldn't be maize or sweetcorn. But my kid's bible shows bright yellow sweetcorn and I never picked it up.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 ZOMBIE CORN ALERT -- old thread resurrected by a first-time poster. 🧟♂️🌽 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Although this *is* the perfect place to bring up that at just a few months ago I saw somebody claiming that the Bible must be literally true because Pharoah dreamed of seven ears of "corn", and since corn is not a Eurasian plant it must therefore have been a really long-term prophecy, therefore God. If your brain hurts trying to work that one out, I get it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Oh my goodness. Apologies to everyone for the very belated likes and hahas. I enjoy puns, and never looked at the dates! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 On 12/31/2015 at 12:05 PM, Laura Corin said: Those of you who didn't know that 'corn' was a generic word meaning 'grain'- where did you think the word came from? If the settlers didn't apply a familiar word to an unfamiliar crop, how did you think it was coined? I am not in the US and I knew but I still think maize or pepper when corn is mentioned. I them have to make an adjustment for time and place. It happened with something I read recently.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenecho Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) Susan Wise Bower made a similar "pre-Columbian Exchange" mistake in Story of the World volume 1, but unlike Mesopotamia and corn, it wasn't something where she was just using an antiquated word. Someone else on these forums caught this mistake in a previous post. nmoira said "native North Americans ate wheat, a grain which was not actually introduced to North American until after 1600 A.C.E. This is a big deal because it's a high protein crop that helped make denser population and labour specialization possible in Europe, and for which there was no North American equivalent. I'm surprised this wasn't caught before the second edition." (Previous Post: Story of the World Errors: ) Edited October 22, 2021 by goldenecho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiche Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I miss nmoira. 😢 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madteaparty Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 On 12/30/2015 at 11:04 AM, regentrude said: Really? I read "corn" in its meaning as a synonym for "grain". I would think most people would know that it cannot refer to what Americans call "corn", i.e. maize. No way the Mesopotamians could have had that - no trade with the Americas yet. No I do not see corn as synonym for grain. Maybe bc my husband is from Indiana, lol. Corn is decidedly, well corn, what you’re all referring to as maize. now I do understand the world “grain” encompass a range of things, millet, wheat, oats, etc but “grain” is the generic term to me, not corn. Hmph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 hours ago, madteaparty said: No I do not see corn as synonym for grain. Maybe bc my husband is from Indiana, lol. Corn is decidedly, well corn, what you’re all referring to as maize. now I do understand the world “grain” encompass a range of things, millet, wheat, oats, etc but “grain” is the generic term to me, not corn. Hmph. I can see that in American English but it's different in other forms of English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eos Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) Here's a riddle with a similar cadence to the title: If you have a bee in your hand, what do you have in your eye? Can you even derail a Zombie Thread? I will go start a new thread. Edited October 25, 2021 by Eos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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