Mary Kay Letourneau

[sassenach]

http://abc7news.com/news/preview-student-teacher-pair-who-married-after-famous-affair-speak-out/647483/

 

 

I'm just kind of stunned by this story. I really have no idea how to feel about it. I had a house full of tween boys last week, and the thought of falling in love with one of them is just so... crazy, insane, sick? And yet, I've also been married for a lot of years and staying married for 10 years really isn't a joke. But, yuck.

[sassenach]

I just realized how old this story is. So weird that it just popped up on my news feed. Sorry if this was already discussed a few months ago!

[gardenmom5]

this is a local story, so I've followed it from the beginning.  I'm so disgusted by her.  she. has. a. son. the. same. age. as vili.   all the claims vili wasn't damaged are bogus.  he used drugs and suffers from depression.  read between the lines of what his life has been like.  she robbed his child hood.

Hollywood disgusted me with how they have romanticized this case. (and there has been a explosion of female teachers and male students).  reverse the roles and it wouldn't be considered "romantic".

her ex took their children and moved to Alaska to get them away from her.

[Bluegoat]

I just find it crazy that anyone could possibly find a teen boy attractive, but, I didn't find them  romantically interesting even when I was a teen girl.

 

However - I am a little less likely than most I think to be totally theoretically opposed to the idea of teens in significant relationships, even with older people.  I tend to think of most teens, other than the youngest, as a type of adult rather than an older child, and I don't really have a problem with the fact that historically many cultures have had people marry and have kids during those years.  That is to say, I'm not convinced that aspect of life is developmentally inappropriate for, say, a 15 year old.

 

In our culture, now, there are all kinds of good reasons not to do it that way: 15 year old can't support themselves yet, and people expect to choose their own spouses and teens don't really have that kind of maturity.  And an unfortunate reason is that we tend to infantalize many young people so they don't necessarily even have the maturity to have a family anyway. (Though, perhaps that is an effect rather than a cause.)

 

So - I guess I have mixed feelings if I try to think about it without just picturing grotty teen boys. 

[fairfarmhand]

 

 

. I had a house full of tween boys last week, and the thought of falling in love with one of them is just so... crazy, insane, sick?

 

Yes!

 

I look at teen boys and think...what a difference 10 yrs makes. They go from awkward, self-centered immaturity (and teen girls are the same) to normal adults. And it's ok that they go through those awkward phases. It's all a part of growing up.

 

I don't understand women who find teens (especially the VERY young teens) sexually attractive, or at least enough that they would risk jail to do something about that attraction. Totally doesn't compute.

 

It doesn't seem that the relatioship could ever be between equals.

[LucyStoner]

Vili wasn't yet a teen when this all got started. It's not like he was 17 or even 15 (though that is still not right). He was a child, full stop.

 

She was his second grade teacher, then his 6th grade teacher and they have admitted that there was an "emotional" bond long before they admit it starting when he was 12. She was pregnant when he was 13. Most people call that emotional bond "grooming".

 

The Highline School District paid out a large amount for legal defense when the family sued. He was most certainly damaged and scarred by this. Marrying her doesn't change that.

 

I recall her trying to make the case to get her teaching license back. Lady has no remorse and no self awareness.

[Bluegoat]

Vili wasn't yet a teen when this all got started. It's not like he was 17 or even 15 (though that is still not right). He was a child, full stop.

 

She was his second grade teacher, then his 6th grade teacher and they have admitted that there was an "emotional" bond long before they admit it starting when he was 12. She was pregnant when he was 13. Most people call that emotional bond "grooming".

 

The Highland School District paid out a large amount after the family sued. He was most certainly damaged and scarred by this. Marrying her doesn't change that.

 

I recall her trying to make the case to get her teaching license back. Lady has no remorse and no self awareness.

 

She's clearly creepy, and more than that, there is something very off about her.  That kind of breach of cultural norms seems like it generally points to something significantly off, even if the thing in itself is rather neutral.

 

But - he's an adult now, so I am not sure what we should do with that.

 

Speaking generally though, is it really all that strange for people to marry someone they knew when they were an adult, and the other person was a child?  My great-grandfather married his friend's daughter after his wife died, He had known her since she was born, and I can only imagine he must have decided he liked her at some point, and thought she was attractive, though she was an adult clearly when they married.  They seem to have had a good marriage..  If we were to look at that today though I think people would have been more creeped out, and they might well think there might well have been something inappropriate going on earlier.  At the time, it wasn't seen as so strange or odd. 

 

Part of that was perhaps that in small places, people get used to the idea of matches with those we have other kinds of relations to or relationships with first.

 

I find it hard to think there isn't a strong cultural lens that accounts for the difference we have around such things today, and I find it difficult to come to a conclusion that says that is always or usually a bad thing without making some significant assumptions about the nature of relationships.

[kitten18]

Vili wasn't yet a teen when this all got started. It's not like he was 17 or even 15 (though that is still not right). He was a child, full stop.

 

She was his second grade teacher, then his 6th grade teacher and they have admitted that there was an "emotional" bond long before they admit it starting when he was 12. She was pregnant when he was 13. Most people call that emotional bond "grooming".

 

The Highland School District paid out a large amount after the family sued. He was most certainly damaged and scarred by this. Marrying her doesn't change that.

 

I recall her trying to make the case to get her teaching license back. Lady has no remorse and no self awareness.

Yes. He was 12 when she started raping him.

 

I watched just a few seconds of that interview. She's absolutely clueless and delusional.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think this is creepy, the same way as the girl in my high school class who married our math teacher (ooooolder, way ooooolder) the day after graduation was creepy.  Ugh.  It's to a large extent a role mixing creepiness.

[poppy]

I think she is a pedophile and I worry about her children. 

[Anne in CA]

Marrying your molester and staying in a relationship with them because you don't know real happiness is not that uncommon. Look at Woody Allen and Soon Yi.

[LucyStoner]

Bluegoat- my son is 12. If a 33 year old was raping him, I wouldn't be evaluating the paradigm from which I look at such "relationships". And neither would any other parent here. If that makes me narrow minded, so be it.

 

Kids do not deserve to be used for the sexual gratification of adults. Period. There is some things that are, in my view black and white.

 

He can do what he wants as an adult, including marry his rapist. That is his perogative. It doesn't undo what she did or mean that she should ever be allowed back in a classroom. That her sentence was so light is a bit of gender bias. I would have zero trouble if she was still in prison. The state failed to protect him when they paroled her after 6 months and allowed her to do it again. 7.5 years is not a long enough sentence for child rape. In this state (this is all local to me), I am unaware of any men being paroled after 6 months for child rape.

[Butter]

No.  Just no.  Does he ever look at his daughters and think "You were already (whatever age) when I was your age?"  What would they do if some man had been raping one of those girls since they were 12?

 

FWIW, I knew a couple girls who were sleeping with an English teacher when were were 14/15.  He was very good looking and just out of college, around 22 years old.  It was so many kinds of wrong, but was kind of an open secret.  When Dawson's Creek had the storyline where Pacey was sleeping with the teacher and people were like "That would never happen!" I was like "Oh, yes, yes it does."

[gardenmom5]

I just find it crazy that anyone could possibly find a teen boy attractive, but, I didn't find them  romantically interesting even when I was a teen girl.

 

However - I am a little less likely than most I think to be totally theoretically opposed to the idea of teens in significant relationships, even with older people. 

 

a 12yo isn't a teen. they're a child.  (as Katie pointed out- he was in 2nd grade re:SEVEN, when they "bonded".)

 

and there is a huge difference between 13 and 18,

[gardenmom5]

Bluegoat- my son is 12. If a 33 year old was raping him, I wouldn't be evaluating the paradigm from which I look at such "relationships". And neither would any other parent here. If that makes me narrow minded, so be it.

 

Kids do not deserve to be used for the sexual gratification of adults. Period. There is some things that are, in my view black and white.

 

He can do what he wants as an adult, including marry his rapist. That is his perogative. It doesn't undo what she did or mean that she should ever be allowed back in a classroom. That her sentence was so light is a bit of gender bias. I would have zero trouble if she was still in prison. The state failed to protect him when they paroled her after 6 months and allowed her to do it again. 7.5 years is not a long enough sentence for child rape. In this state (this is all local to me), I am unaware of any men being paroled after 6 months for child rape.

 

 

because liking this  once just isn't enough.

[Guest]

I wonder if her daughters will feel differently about her when they have their own pre-teens?

[marbel]

a 12yo isn't a teen.

 

and there is a huge difference between 13 and 18,

No kidding!  She was a predator.  Maybe still is, for all we know.   I feel sorry for her daughters.  They are growing up thinking that it's OK  for an adult to form a romantic/sexual relationship with a child.  A child under their authority, no less.

 

How would these parents feel if one of their daughters formed a relationship with a teacher 20 years older than her?  I guess it would be OK with them.  Just a normal thing.

 

So disgusting.

[PrairieSong]

I remember being sickened by this story when it first broke decades ago. What is the point of putting them in the spotlight now? So that they can show the world that they have a normal relationship?

[gardenmom5]

I remember being sickened by this story when it first broke decades ago. What is the point of putting them in the spotlight now? So that they can show the world that they have a normal relationship?

 

it's part of her pr campaign to get her teaching license back.  no. way. in. "h". "e". double. hockysticks!

[texasmama]

I have a 12 year old son.  He is a child.

[LucyStoner]

I have a high school classmate who, years later, married one of our teachers. That's a different situation though as not only was the former student an adult (and not just 18 either), the teacher was no longer teaching. Last I heard they had a baby and live in another state. May December romances aren't new but most of them don't start in February either.

[Kiara.I]

I have a high school classmate who, years later, married one of our teachers. That's a different situation though as not only was the former student an adult (and not 18), the teacher was no longer teaching. Last I heard they had a baby and live in another state. May December romances aren't new but most of them don't start in February either.

 

Yes.  My dad's friend years ago was teaching at a high school, and after one of the students graduated, they got married--he'd been waiting for her.

But that's the thing: he WAITED for her to be an appropriate age for a romance!  They weren't having a sexual relationship while waiting.

And when they did marry, she was out of the school and no longer a student, and so there was no longer a power imbalance, nor was it illegal or a violation of his teaching contract.

 

Suppose this woman had "bonded" with a student.  Fine.  Suppose they kept in touch a bit while he was in high school.  Suppose they then married when he was a legal adult.  Fine.  Society would still view it oddly because of the large age gap, but at least it would mostly meet societal norms.

The problem is that, bond or not, she chose to act unethically and illegally.  And regardless of (her) arguments about whether or not he was consenting, the problem is that she was breaking very clearly stated rules and regulations.  Both civil laws and, I'm sure, teacher contracts!  When you begin a relationship so unethically, how long the relationship goes on does not remove the fact that it was begun in an inappropriate way.

[marbel]

I remember being sickened by this story when it first broke decades ago. What is the point of putting them in the spotlight now? So that they can show the world that they have a normal relationship?

 

 

it's part of her pr campaign to get her teaching license back.  no. way. in. "h". "e". double. hockysticks!

 

But why is there news coverage?    Why did ABC decide this was worth news coverage and an interview?  Why not just let them disappear into obscurity, as they should? 

 

(Disappear, but keep her status as a sex offender so she can't ever teach again.)

 

I guess I am asking: why is the media giving her a platform to show how normal her life is?

 

Does that sound conspiracy-theory-ish?  Like, ABC news is out to normalize child rape?  Don't mean to.  But I do wonder why it's come up again.

[Kiara.I]

But why is there news coverage?    Why did decide this was worth news coverage and an interview?  Why not just let them disappear into obscurity, as they should? 

 

Because news is about interest.  If it garners interest, the news company will air it, because that's what they want: viewers.  And look, it worked.  We're all talking about it.  Whoops.

[marbel]

Because news is about interest.  If it garners interest, the news company will air it, because that's what they want: viewers.  And look, it worked.  We're all talking about it.  Whoops.

 

That is a good point.  Ratings. And, I guess they knew it would get ratings, eh? 

 

ETA: But wait.  The article (I didn't watch the interview) made the family seem all nice and normal.  But we're all sitting here going "ewww."  Maybe we are not an indicator of culture at large, of course, and maybe there are a lot of people saying "yeah, this family seems to be fine, what's the big deal?"    But, hard to imagine.

 

Anyway, how would all this help her to get her teaching license back (as a pp said)?   

[poppy]

This was news because Barbara Walters was hyping her interview.  I'm sure she was interviewing them for the freak show factor.  Why they would be on TV on purpose is a mystery to me.

[katilac]

 <snip>Speaking generally though, is it really all that strange for people to marry someone they knew when they were an adult, and the other person was a child?  My great-grandfather married his friend's daughter after his wife died, He had known her since she was born, and I can only imagine he must have decided he liked her at some point, and thought she was attractive, though she was an adult clearly when they married.  They seem to have had a good marriage..  If we were to look at that today though I think people would have been more creeped out, and they might well think there might well have been something inappropriate going on earlier.  At the time, it wasn't seen as so strange or odd. <snip>

 

I think it is looked upon as strange today when the two people were extremely close when the child was growing up, with perhaps some kind of fatherly or uncle-type relationship (and vice versa). If I have literally watched someone grow up, then yes, that pretty much kills the sexy thoughts in my mind, lol. 

 

My teen daughters are absolutely squicked by the guardian/ward romances that are fairly common in earlier literature. Even Mr. Knightley and Emma earned an "Eww, that's gross!" (both for the age difference and the fact that he watched her grow up)

 

In my version of a civilized world, a modern adult removes themselves from the situation if romantic feelings start to develop with a minor (on either side), and they don't swoop back in the day the minor turns 18 - they give the younger person a chance to have their freedom and grow as an adult before going down that road. 

[LucyStoner]

Mary Kay considers the fact that Vili had girlfriends and sex partners while she was in prison to mean that he was "cheating on her".

 

She.is.a.nutter.

[gardenmom5]

Mary Kay considers the fact that Vili had girlfriends and sex partners while she was in prison to mean that he was "cheating on her".

 

She.is.a.nutter.

I've thought emotionally she's still a vacuous teen.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have a 12 year old son.  He is a child.

 

^^^This.

 

We had a houseful of 12yo football players recently.  Some of them looked older than 12, but they were still babies (and I mean that in a good way).

 

[Guest]

I wonder if the climate has changed to the point that, if this happened today, she'd get a longer sentence??

[Tsuga]

She is disgusting and I can't believe there was no restraining order. I had no idea this was going on. How disgusting. 16 is one thing. Statutory rape, bad, still is criminal and still should be punished, but not... insane. Just wrong. This was always so wrong. He was a child. Did they get a marriage license? I can't bear to read it!!!

[Tsuga]

I wonder if the climate has changed to the point that, if this happened today, she'd get a longer sentence??

 

Jesus Christ I hope so.

[MrsMommy]

It's just...what's the technical term? That's right...icky.

[Jean in Newcastle]

She is disgusting and I can't believe there was no restraining order. I had no idea this was going on. How disgusting. 16 is one thing. Statutory rape, bad, still is criminal and still should be punished, but not... insane. Just wrong. This was always so wrong. He was a child. Did they get a marriage license? I can't bear to read it!!!

There was a restraining order.  She ignored it and got pregnant by him a second time.  When he turned 18, he asked for the order to be removed and since he was an adult, the judge complied.  And yes, now they are married.  

[LucyStoner]

She is disgusting and I can't believe there was no restraining order. I had no idea this was going on. How disgusting. 16 is one thing. Statutory rape, bad, still is criminal and still should be punished, but not... insane. Just wrong. This was always so wrong. He was a child. Did they get a marriage license? I can't bear to read it!!!

How long have you lived here? :P

 

There was a restraining order. After serving a short time in jail, she was released on parole with a no contact order in place. She walked right through it and got knocked up again and went to prison. She gave birth to their second child while incarcerated. The restraining order remained in place. He sucessfully appealed to have it lifted shortly after her release. Not too much later they married. I assume with a license because he was 21 by then.

 

If ever a thread needed a vomit smilie.

[Farrar]

If ever a thread needed a vomit smilie.

:ack2: That one looks like he's about to vomit. As we all are after reading and thinking about this whole thing. 

[gardenmom5]

I wonder if the climate has changed to the point that, if this happened today, she'd get a longer sentence??

 

I've seen quite a few similar cases of late - young female teacher (frequently *married*) having an inappropriate relationship teen student (or even mother's with their son's friend). usually high school age - but sometimes younger.  I dont' remember any as young as vili.  only the most recent case got a reasonable sentence.  (dont' remember what).  most have been nothing more than a slap on the wrist.  very much a double standard.  if men had done this with a student, people would be demanding lightening bolts and dismembering with sporks.

 

not long afterwards, Hollywood made a movie and presented this case as though it was "romantic".  and that does make some circles think "it must be okay".   but Hollywood doesn't have a problem with roman Polanski.

[happypamama]

I'm with everyone else. Yuck. I'd say I'm glad they're at least still together and providing a stable home for their girls, but I'm sure there are an awful lot of issues.

 

I didn't watch the interview or anything, but I was curious: who took care of their babies while she was incarcerated? Did he care for them as a teenager? If so, good for him. It's got to be hard enough to be a teen parent, but especially a teen dad.

[Tsuga]

How long have you lived here? :p

 

There was a restraining order. After serving a short time in jail, she was released on parole with a no contact order in place. She walked right through it and got knocked up again and went to prison. She gave birth to their second child while incarcerated. The restraining order remained in place. He sucessfully appealed to have it lifted shortly after her release. Not too much later they married. I assume with a license because he was 21 by then.

 

If ever a thread needed a vomit smilie.

 

I have never been able to read it. I lived here my whole life but just could not stand it. I didn't read the details of the Duggar stuff either! I feel like... sex with a kid. How many more details do I need to know.

[Kerileanne99]

I'm with everyone else. Yuck. I'd say I'm glad they're at least still together and providing a stable home for their girls, but I'm sure there are an awful lot of issues.

 

I didn't watch the interview or anything, but I was curious: who took care of their babies while she was incarcerated? Did he care for them as a teenager? If so, good for him. It's got to be hard enough to be a teen parent, but especially a teen dad.

His parents raised them, after suing the school district, until the happy couple could be reunited:(

Mary Kay and Villi even benefitted from the proceeds of a book, a movie, and granting ET the rights to their wedding. Soooo wrong.

[Laurie]

 

 

She.is.a.nutter.

 

She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.  

 

I think schools should do some psychological screening before hiring teachers.

 

I would never let her back in a classroom.    And it made me sick that a local bar would let this woman and her DJ husband preside over a "Hot for Teacher" night. 

 

[gardenmom5]

His parents raised them, after suing the school district, until the happy couple could be reunited:(

Mary Kay and Villi even benefitted from the proceeds of a book, a movie, and granting ET the rights to their wedding. Soooo wrong.

And all these shows care about is ratings. Ratings = money.

Disgusting.

[LucyStoner]

She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

 

I think schools should do some psychological screening before hiring teachers.

 

I would never let her back in a classroom. And it made me sick that a local bar would let this woman and her DJ husband preside over a "Hot for Teacher" night.

 

I think bipolar people can be good, sucessful teachers. Screening people out of employment due to their health is a dicey proposition.

 

Her being mentally ill doesn't really explain her being a pedophile.

[gardenmom5]

I think bipolar people can be good, sucessful teachers. Screening people out of employment due to their health is a dicey proposition.

 

Her being mentally ill doesn't really explain her being a pedophile.

 

 

I know people who are bipolar.  NONE of them are pedophiles.

[LucyStoner]

I have never been able to read it. I lived here my whole life but just could not stand it. I didn't read the details of the Duggar stuff either! I feel like... sex with a kid. How many more details do I need to know.

Wise woman.

 

Pretty much everything I know about them came from people who knew them or the news back then. One of my high school friends lived very close to where she was arrested when on parole. Also, I recall following the lawsuit because I know the judge and was interested in if the district and the police would be found liable or not. They weren't. Which I can see both ways but geez, if that were my son and no one told me what was going on, suing would be the least dangerous possible reaction!

[SparklyUnicorn]

I know people who are bipolar.  NONE of them are pedophiles.

 

Same here.

[Scarlett]

Vili wasn't yet a teen when this all got started. It's not like he was 17 or even 15 (though that is still not right). He was a child, full stop.

 

She was his second grade teacher, then his 6th grade teacher and they have admitted that there was an "emotional" bond long before they admit it starting when he was 12. She was pregnant when he was 13. Most people call that emotional bond "grooming".

 

The Highline School District paid out a large amount for legal defense when the family sued. He was most certainly damaged and scarred by this. Marrying her doesn't change that.

 

I recall her trying to make the case to get her teaching license back. Lady has no remorse and no self awareness.

QFT

[Scarlett]

I just posted a picture on my FB page of my son with his dog when my son was 11. The thought of someone raping him and then claiming they are soul mates makes my blood boil. Even now, my son is 15 1/2. He is very close to some of his friends mothers....if one of them began a sexual relationship with him there would be heck to pay. I can't even imagine what I might do.

[Guest]

How much of the blame goes to his parents? Putting myself in their shoes, I would have left town with my son immediately. I'm not sure I would have stepped in to raise the child because that keeps the crazy lady in my son's life. I feel like they have enabled this situation.