"Flipped" classrooms article

[rose]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5800467--flipped-classroom-sees-kids-do-homework-at-school-after-watching-online-videos/

 

I don't know if this has been discussed yet. What do you all think. I would have loved it when I was a teen and in college. I used skip class and just read the textbook at home in order to learn the material. It seemed like such a nuisance to get up, go to school, listen to a lecture and then travel home when I knew that I could get 90% of the material just from the text. The extra little bit didn't seem worth it to me.

[HSmomof2]

I think it's an interesting concept.....maybe not for all subjects, but I can definitely see the benefit. I, too, skipped many, many of my college classes if attendance wasn't required (like in foreign language classes or science labs). I got more out of reading my books and doing my homework on my own. (I graduated with a 3.8, so it didn't seem to hurt my grades.)

[MistyMountain]

I sounds like a good idea because it is good for both the students that can read or watch something and get it right away and those who do not and need more help. It sounds like there is more time to indentify and help those students that need it.

[Tanaqui]

I had a teacher in high school who taught like this, sans video. We did the work in the book, and then the class was going over the night before's work.

 

Having actually done this, I can say that most of my classmates were fine with it.

 

I was not. I suffered from two not entirely unrelated problems - I had (and still have) serious executive dysfunction, and my previous years of schooling had taught me that homework was utterly superfluous, meaning I had no coping method for handling the homework once I realized that in this class, it wasn't. (This is the fault of the previous 9 years of schooling, and the reason I do not support homework in elementary school, ever.)

 

(Additionally, if the material is primarily done via video, that brings up a third problem I would have had. I can't learn through video. Printed matter is fine, in person is okay, but videos? I can't even watch TV without captioning, and that's for entertainment.)

 

This is a method that's just fine for many students, and probably better than fine for a good number, but for a small number it's really awful.

[tm919]

They have been trying to move toward this at the local schools, and the biggest problem has really been the technology/affordability aspect. Not every model of a flipped classroom works this way, but in the model they were trying to use at the local schools every child needed their own ipad (I think they were pushing last year for this to start in 5th? grade), it needs to be insured, and within a certain range of models. Parents can't always afford them, and even if they can, many people don't like the amount of screen time this method requires -- at one point, they said children could be spending 2 hours of time on their ipads (because most homework time would become ipad time) a day.

[happi duck]

I had a couple math classes with video lessons and as a student I did not like it.

 

As a teacher I prefer face to face checking for understanding as I teach.

 

That said, I love that the education machine is against homeschooling yet the move is toward kids teaching themselves from books and videos and teachers helping when students are stuck. Hmmm.

 

In college my favorite course was one where the prof wrote the text. We read the chapter and then he wonderfully fleshed it out and delved even deeper in his lectures while also answering questions. I could have learned from just reading but I would have missed the passion, personal stories and the extra oomph of the lectures.

[extendedforecast]

My daughter's algebra class was flipped last year. It wasn't as successful as I would have thought. When new lessons were being introduced, the students were to log onto the teacher's website and watch a video of her teacher giving the lesson. I believe they were supposed to do a few problems the same evening. The next day the teacher would go over the problems and work more problems with the students together. That afternoon more problems were sent home for them to practice. I think the trouble for some students is not being able to ask questions directly to the teacher during the teaching phase. It was frustrating to them to have to wait until the next day to get their questions answered. A few times my daughter had to come to me for help on the practice problems given on the first night. Lucky for her, both my husband and I are Math people.

[SparklyUnicorn]

How much time do they usually spend at home doing that I wonder.

 

 

[TKDmom]

Has anyone ever taught a class this way?

 

I'm going to be teaching a high school chemistry class with a co-op and I only get 50 min a week with the students. That's not nearly enough time. I have been thinking that the only way I can possibly teach it is to do a flipped format. I'm not doing videos though--I was just going to have the kids read their books during the week, ask for questions in class, work through some of the more difficult problems, and maybe do a lab every other week. Whew.

 

I'm pretty nervous about this. It helps some that I'm using Conceptual Chemistry, which is pretty light on the math. But still. I've never taught high school level, and even the college classes I helped teach met 3 times a week and someone else had already laid out all the lesson plans...

[Pamela H in Texas]

Bonnie, I just hope your co-op class is more cooperative than mine was.  Even after speaking with the parents, we had significant issues.  The kids were supposed to come to me for lab (and I gladly would have answered some questions) after doing the work at home.  Out of 14 students, I assure you TWO regularly did the work (one being my own, of course).  So my lab time was eaten up with having to teach the lesson they should have done at home, with parents, whatever.

 

 

[Cinder]

Ds2's pre-calc class was flipped. They reviewed the lesson at home then class time was spent answering questions and going over problems together. It worked well for my ds--he pulled a high A in spite of struggling a little to get a B in Alg 2. He thought it made more sense to get help on the homework before it had to be turned in rather than the old style of lecture in class, doing homework, turning it in, getting graded then trying to get help on concepts that were missed. He thought all the math classes should have been done that way. He hasn't had any other classes that were/are flipped.

[Luckymama]

Dd and I use somewhat of a flipped model for the subjects we do together. She reads from the textbook and/or watches selected videos (not lectures, omg I'd have a revolt!) and/or reads journal articles. The next morning we discuss the reading, do labs or activities, and so on.

 

I figure this will help her in future college classes :)

[rose]

What I like about this trend if it continues is that it means that homeschoolers will probably have new options in the future. I don't see why we couldn't do a partial enrolment where we use the lectures, do the same homework assignments but where the parent is the tutor instead of the teacher. The student could then show up for the test and get credits for the course. 

[KungFuPanda]

It seems like more people would be better served if they could get close captioning and a transcript of the video. This seems an easy enough fix and a nice back-up in case of technological difficulties. I imagine it's nicer for parents who want to help since they don't have to guess about what was said in class.

 

I can see this ending up with canned video lectures from non-local teachers and that could cause some problems but solve others. It sure does suck the fun out of snow days :-)

[anne1456]

Has anyone ever taught a class this way?

 

I'm going to be teaching a high school chemistry class with a co-op and I only get 50 min a week with the students. That's not nearly enough time. I have been thinking that the only way I can possibly teach it is to do a flipped format. I'm not doing videos though--I was just going to have the kids read their books during the week, ask for questions in class, work through some of the more difficult problems, and maybe do a lab every other week. Whew.

 

 

This is how I teach chemistry at our homeschool co-op.  Everything is assigned online, and the kids watch videos, read the text and do homework.  Then during class we go over the homework, answer questions and do labs.  I have 2 hours though, 50 minutes would be tough.  I use both videos (free ones from Georgia Public Broadcasting) and a text, and some kids skip the text and just watch the videos, and I can tell from the test results who that is.

[kiana]

It seems like more people would be better served if they could get close captioning and a transcript of the video. This seems an easy enough fix and a nice back-up in case of technological difficulties. I imagine it's nicer for parents who want to help since they don't have to guess about what was said in class.

 

I can see this ending up with canned video lectures from non-local teachers and that could cause some problems but solve others. It sure does suck the fun out of snow days :-)

 

Oh this is a great addendum. I loathe video lectures and would have done horribly with it as a student, but a transcript I would have read and done well. I think the best transcript would work best in a two-column format with the relevant equations on one side. 

[Butter]

They do a lot of flipped classrooms in our district.  It's been a learning curve.  They are getting better at it.  I think it's a great idea.  Getting the students to watch the videos and be ready for discussion has been a bit of an issue just as it's always been an issue getting kids to do their homework.

[Junie]

A flipped classroom would have helped me tremendously in math.  My algebra 1 teacher went a little too fast for me.  Just when I was starting to "get" the new material, she would say, "Or you could do it this way..."  I was so confused.  If I had been able to watch lectures on a laptop (insert laugh here -- our computer in the late 80's didn't have this capability), I would have been able to rewind the lectures as needed.

 

 

[Word Nerd]

"What I don't like is when they are watching the video (at home) and they have an immediate question, there is no one to ask."

 

Um, what about the parents?

[rose]

"What I don't like is when they are watching the video (at home) and they have an immediate question, there is no one to ask."

 

Um, what about the parents?

There is no way my parents could have helped me with math past grade 9 or science past grade 10 unless they were doing everything with me from the get go which they just weren't interested in doing. Remember this is ps that we're talking about with all comers. Some parents just aren't able or don't want to go to the work of helping their kids and the teacher is all that they have.

[kiana]

There is no way my parents could have helped me with math past grade 9 or science past grade 10 unless they were doing everything with me from the get go which they just weren't interested in doing. Remember this is ps that we're talking about with all comers. Some parents just aren't able or don't want to go to the work of helping their kids and the teacher is all that they have.

 

And furthermore, some parents just aren't around when their kids are trying to do homework. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

There is no way my parents could have helped me with math past grade 9 or science past grade 10 unless they were doing everything with me from the get go which they just weren't interested in doing. Remember this is ps that we're talking about with all comers. Some parents just aren't able or don't want to go to the work of helping their kids and the teacher is all that they have.

 

Yeah same here.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

it should be an option for students who are interested in that type of learning. I don't think it should be the only option. 

 

Yeah I think it might be better if the school day were a bit shorter too.  I mean by the time you get home, maybe you had some after school activity, you eat dinner, etc. so now you sit down to watch what 2 hours of video?  I don't know how well that would work for everyone.  It would seem to me that it would make more sense for older kids too. 

 

I don't particularly like learning via video.  I wanted to take some math courses at the CC and of course I can always opt to do on-line.  In a way that would probably be more convenient, but I just think I'll learn better from being there.

[Word Nerd]

There is no way my parents could have helped me with math past grade 9 or science past grade 10 unless they were doing everything with me from the get go which they just weren't interested in doing. Remember this is ps that we're talking about with all comers. Some parents just aren't able or don't want to go to the work of helping their kids and the teacher is all that they have.

My kids attend PS, so I haven't forgotten that point at all. I still think it's hooey that there's no one except a teacher who can answer a question about a video lesson. If the parent can't help, the student could ask the teacher, but the default assumption shouldn't be that parents can't or won't help.

[athomeontheprairie]

"What I don't like is when they are watching the video (at home) and they have an immediate question, there is no one to ask."

 

Um, what about the parents?

Not all parents will know the answer. Or are home. Or will care. Some will. And I'm sure those kids will ask.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Although I can clearly see how much some students would benefit from flipped classrooms (some of my own kids included), for too many it would surely spell disaster.

 

I would have dropped out of school if my education had relied upon my own efforts at home. I did zero homework at home, ever. I learned all I needed to pass the tests from half-heartedly listening to the teacher during class and skimming the book during study hall.

 

I couldn't have changed my home dynamic simply by needing to, in response to new education policies and practices. I'd have needed a different home.

 

We all know that this would be true for a million kids. After school is about survival, not about cozying up to a video lesson and workbook after being in school all day. The self-motivation isn't there, but also the time, space, and safety are frequently not there. These kids NEED teachers.

[Tanaqui]

"What I don't like is when they are watching the video (at home) and they have an immediate question, there is no one to ask."

 

Um, what about the parents?

 

If the parents aren't good at that level of math, then it may be best if they don't try to help.

 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

My dd's AP Calculus was flipped.  She watched her teacher's lecture on YouTube each evening, then class time was dedicated to the assignments.  The idea was supposed to be for the kids, who sat four to a table, to work together, help each other as needed, and come to the teacher if they couldn't figure it out.  My dd self-reported that she never worked with the other kids at her table, and the other kids didn't do much of that either.  The teacher did help as needed, and dd learned the subject very well.  

 

[BooksandBoys]

I would have lost my mind if I had to watch videos in order to keep up in class. I do not learn from videos. It just doesn't work for me (and it's so much slower for me than reading). When I was in 6th grade, I briefly attended a private school that used Abeka's video school. It was absolute torture. I figured out how to unplug my headphones just enough to cut the sound without being caught and learned to read discretely. I earned 100s the entire year, but I could have learned so much more if I hadn't had to be so sneaky about learning my way.

[Debbi in Texas]

As a college student I have mixed feelings about flipped classrooms. It seems that I spend many hours doing outside work, including videos. The videos we were required to watch and write papers on were in addition to the lecture/classroom that only met once every two weeks. In other words, they were not the professor's lecture. The professor was teaching other classes as well.

 

It seemed to me, that the concept of the flipped class was being abused. I pay nearly $1000 per class. I would appreciate it if I didn't have the majority of my work to do outside of class.

[fdrinca]

As a college student I have mixed feelings about flipped classrooms. It seems that I spend many hours doing outside work, including videos. The videos we were required to watch and write papers on were in addition to the lecture/classroom that only met once every two weeks. In other words, they were not the professor's lecture. The professor was teaching other classes as well.

 

It seemed to me, that the concept of the flipped class was being abused. I pay nearly $1000 per class. I would appreciate it if I didn't have the majority of my work to do outside of class.

 

DH teaches some sections of his statistics courses in a flipped model. He has to overcome significant resistance from the students, for many of the issues raised above (not just the quoted post). Poor study habits is at the top of the list. The notion of homework as something to blow off has been difficult to overcome. When students do not prepare, he ends up lecturing by default as problems are worked in class, which alienates the students who do prepare. 

 

In his experience, students are more conditioned to use videos for learning than he'd expected. While students can't ask questions in class, he points out that during lecture many students *don't* ask questions in class. With this model, students have both the text and a hard copy of an oral lecture to refer to when studying. 

 

To the quoted post, I'd just say that at DH's university, students are expected to work 2-3 hours per credit hours outside of class. For his 4-credit hour classes, he plans 8-12 hours of at home work for his students. I believe this is the norm. The bulk of a student's work has to be done outside of the classroom. I'd hate this to be the standard opinion of most students.

[kiwik]

It will work with disciplined students with good resources and extra disciplined bright kids without resources. It wont work for kids who are expected to care for siblings, cook, clean or earn after school - most of them struggle to get homework done as it is. I could actually see it working well for accelerated kids and would be quite happy for my kids to do it PROVIDED the school day was reduced to 3 hours or so to allow for all that learn at home stuff. It would be home schooling with 3 hours a day tutoring thrown in.

 

But in real life i can see a lot of kids coming to class unprepared and the teacher either having to waste time instructing them or just let them fail. Maybe just as a priveledge for those who do the work?

[Elfknitter.#]

I can see a lot of "my internet connection failed" "the video kept buffering" type excuses. Even if they are legit, I could see that messing someone up the next day in class.

Or "I went to the library and their computers weren't working."

[Tanaqui]

Or - and this probably IS legit - "I went to the library, and then I ran out of time before I could watch all required videos".

[MBM]

It can work well for some but only if the teacher is willing to do some level of clarifying what the student has studied. My son's AP Physics BC course was flipped and his teacher did not go over the material much at all. During class he'd have students do homework but didn't bother helping them if they got stuck. Most of the kids were overwhelmed trying to teach themselves and each other the material. My son spent as many as five hours per night finding other sources and attempting to teach himself. Some weekends were spent studying physics almost exclusively. He managed to get two 5s on the AP exams but it took an awful lot of time.

 

The algebra class I took in seventh grade was also flipped but was very well taught. Our teacher handed out the entire year's worth of assignments and we were allowed to go at our own pace at home. Everyone had to finish assignments by a certain date, though. During class he'd wheel around the class in his chair and work individually with us. If he noticed that students were not understanding certain concepts, he'd have us gather around and flesh out the concept and make us think through the problem aloud usually at the chalkboard. We could also come in before and after school to work with him individually.

 

[KungFuPanda]

As a college student I have mixed feelings about flipped classrooms. It seems that I spend many hours doing outside work, including videos. The videos we were required to watch and write papers on were in addition to the lecture/classroom that only met once every two weeks. In other words, they were not the professor's lecture. The professor was teaching other classes as well.

 

It seemed to me, that the concept of the flipped class was being abused. I pay nearly $1000 per class. I would appreciate it if I didn't have the majority of my work to do outside of class.

Every college class ever has more work outside of class. I think I might be misunderstanding what you mean.

[KungFuPanda]

It will work with disciplined students with good resources and extra disciplined bright kids without resources. It wont work for kids who are expected to care for siblings, cook, clean or earn after school - most of them struggle to get homework done as it is. I could actually see it working well for accelerated kids and would be quite happy for my kids to do it PROVIDED the school day was reduced to 3 hours or so to allow for all that learn at home stuff. It would be home schooling with 3 hours a day tutoring thrown in.

 

But in real life i can see a lot of kids coming to class unprepared and the teacher either having to waste time instructing them or just let them fail. Maybe just as a priveledge for those who do the work?

Those kids will have trouble either way. I've watched my daughter go through public high school and the homework load was oppressive. I don't see how anyone who doesn't do the homework could graduate. I know it happened 'back in the day' but it seems nearly impossible these days to get by on class absorption and tests. She didn't have ANY classes where she was tested only on in-class material. I imagine this could vary considerably by school system.

 

I'm wondering if the kids doing the lectures at home would lead to a reality check with homework hours? There seems to be a disconnect between how long something 'should' take and how long it takes in real life. If they're doing less than three hours of lectures at home, then some of these kids will come out ahead time wise.

[Debbi in Texas]

DH teaches some sections of his statistics courses in a flipped model. He has to overcome significant resistance from the students, for many of the issues raised above (not just the quoted post). Poor study habits is at the top of the list. The notion of homework as something to blow off has been difficult to overcome. When students do not prepare, he ends up lecturing by default as problems are worked in class, which alienates the students who do prepare. 

 

In his experience, students are more conditioned to use videos for learning than he'd expected. While students can't ask questions in class, he points out that during lecture many students *don't* ask questions in class. With this model, students have both the text and a hard copy of an oral lecture to refer to when studying. 

 

To the quoted post, I'd just say that at DH's university, students are expected to work 2-3 hours per credit hours outside of class. For his 4-credit hour classes, he plans 8-12 hours of at home work for his students. I believe this is the norm. The bulk of a student's work has to be done outside of the classroom. I'd hate this to be the standard opinion of most students.

 

I agree with you and I spend many hours outside of class. I just don't like the idea of the flipped class just so professors are free to teach more classes at one time. I had two classes last semester where we only met once every two weeks. I think we should have met at least weekly.

[Debbi in Texas]

Every college class ever has more work outside of class. I think I might be misunderstanding what you mean.

 

The problem I had with it was that for two of my classes, we only met once every two weeks. I think we should have class a minimum of once a week.

 

It felt like the teacher was spreading herself too thin.

[Joanne]

As an Administrator in a school, I am familiar. One of my jobs in my (very traditional) school is to increase the use of technology to aid learning.

That said, I find the "flipped classroom" a bit too gimmicky and trendy.

 

I think videos (my younger 2 have made very productive use of YouTube in getting material from other teachers to supplement their in personal teacher) are helpful. But I don't think they are the best use of foundational resources for learning.

The therapist in me screams (yes, I realize that's ironic ;)) that *relationship* and *interaction* are necessary components to quality learning.

 

Do I think there is a time and place for "flipping" as an educational tool? Yes. Do I think it should be the prevailing style? No.

 

 

[shawthorne44]

The biggest problem I can see is that the kids not actually doing the homework. 

The biggest advantage I can see is that the videos don't have to be by the same teacher.  An exceptional teacher could do the videos. 

I can also see it being really easy for a kid to accelerate. 

 

I would have loved this.  I did do it once in a college class and it was wonderful.  It was a 5 hour Engineering track Math class.  The same teacher had been teaching it for forever and there were videos on VCR tapes.   I would spend all day Saturday on the class.  I'd watch a video, do the homework then watch the question session, repeat.   I stayed a week ahead so that if I ever needed to go to a live question session I could, but I never had to. 

I never really gave a flip about the interaction aspect.  But, then I was Physics and Engineering so maybe if I'd done more humanities it would have mattered. 

[Susan in KY]

Has anyone ever taught a class this way?

 

I'm going to be teaching a high school chemistry class with a co-op and I only get 50 min a week with the students. That's not nearly enough time. I have been thinking that the only way I can possibly teach it is to do a flipped format. I'm not doing videos though--I was just going to have the kids read their books during the week, ask for questions in class, work through some of the more difficult problems, and maybe do a lab every other week. Whew.

 

I'm pretty nervous about this. It helps some that I'm using Conceptual Chemistry, which is pretty light on the math. But still. I've never taught high school level, and even the college classes I helped teach met 3 times a week and someone else had already laid out all the lesson plans...

Hi, TDKmom, I taught Math in the same set up, an hour a week and the rest online. It wasn't as successful as I would have liked for reasons some others mentioned. We used Google hangouts so kids could ask questions, but it still wasn't the best. I wish I could tell you otherwise because it was a ton of work for me. :mellow:

[TKDmom]

Hi, TDKmom, I taught Math in the same set up, an hour a week and the rest online. It wasn't as successful as I would have liked for reasons some others mentioned. We used Google hangouts so kids could ask questions, but it still wasn't the best. I wish I could tell you otherwise because it was a ton of work for me. :mellow:

Well, I'm still one student short of minimum enrollment. We will see if it even happens... :001_huh:

I found out this week that the author of my text has put free videos online! That was happy discovery. And if the class does happen, I have the classroom free for tutoring an hour after my class. I may be able to spill over into that hour. Registration ends tomorrow, and then I feel like I can know what I've gotten myself into this year.  :blink:

[luuknam]

in the model they were trying to use at the local schools every child needed their own ipad (I think they were pushing last year for this to start in 5th? grade), it needs to be insured, and within a certain range of models. Parents can't always afford them

 

What the what? Why on earth would the school require the ipad be insured? Are the kids supposed to bring their own ipads to school and the school is worried about the ipads being broken/stolen/etc on school property? Regardless, it should be my own business on whether I want to insure my property or not, especially it's stuff I can afford to replace (as opposed to e.g. a house that's still under mortgage, in which case it's not *really* my property anyway). Insurance on cheaper items is so often a rip-off...

 

Our local elementary is starting an ipad-for-every-student thing this school year. It's my understanding the kids will be allowed to take the ipads home for homework, but I didn't inquire because I'll be homeschooling my kids this year.