Farrar Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Most Americans have used corporal punishment, so I don't think that proves anything. Considering how successfully she faked her heritage, I would not be surprised if she could also tell a convincing abuse story to investigators. Maybe even fake some "evidence." Then again, it could be true. I just think she has zero credibility on anything at this point. Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised either way. I just am aware that evangelicals who have lived sort of off the grid and adopted a lot of kids is, sadly, a profile of people who have turned out to be abusers several times in the news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Most Americans have used corporal punishment, so I don't think that proves anything. Considering how successfully she faked her heritage, I would not be surprised if she could also tell a convincing abuse story to investigators. Maybe even fake some "evidence." Then again, it could be true. I just think she has zero credibility on anything at this point. The two I know who absolutely MADE UP stories from their past definitely included tales of abuse and have conned others into believing them. It makes a story far more sell-able to others and gets the storyteller more sympathy and attention. They also cut off a bit of contact from their past (not just relatives, but also close friends) because, of course, those folks know the truth and sometimes have absolute proof. After a while, I'm pretty sure they convince themselves that their daydreams are their reality, but that doesn't make it true. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Regarding the brother she claims custody of, is there more information somewhere? I read that she got custody in 2010, when he would have been 16 (he is 21 now). At that age kids can have quite a bit of leeway themselves in choosing who to live with, I'd be interested to know whether this is a matter of parental rights having been terminated (which would support abuse allegations) or more a matter of the kid himself just choosing to live with his sister. Didn't something like that happen to a board member a few years back, an adopted teenage boy chose to move back in with his birth family? from what I read (and I could be wrong) it sounded like he chose to move in with her and she was given guardianship - it was never stated parental rights were terminated and I don't think they were. if he was a minor, it would make sense for her to have some legal guardianship rights for things like: school, medical, etc. in the locality in which they were living. otherwise, he'd have to be declared an emancipated minor to take care of things like school, medical and other stuff. it also sounded like he became estranged from their parents AFTER he moved in with her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 The two I know who absolutely MADE UP stories from their past definitely included tales of abuse and have conned others into believing them. It makes a story far more sell-able to others and gets the storyteller more sympathy and attention. They also cut off a bit of contact from their past (not just relatives, but also close friends) because, of course, those folks know the truth and sometimes have absolute proof. After a while, I'm pretty sure they convince themselves that their daydreams are their reality, but that doesn't make it true. This, no one ever wants to believe that someone would lie about such awful things about the people who should love them the most, much less that they could do unless their wasn't some truth to it. But it does happen. And yes, sometimes they convince even themselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajag Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 How is she making a mockery? She identifies as an African American. There was a time when "Transsexual" was not a thing either. Men who identified as being a woman (or vice versa) had a mental illness--psychological break. But now we have the federal govt saying that I need to be willing to share a public restroom with a man. She is essentially living her life in blackface and telling stories about nooses in her living room and hate mail in her locked box at the NAACP that was never mailed. This started about the time her parents adopted AA kids. She gives talks about what it's like to be a minority when at any time she could drop the charade and be white. No true minorities have that option. It's like deciding one day to buy a scooter and fake an illness to get handicap accommodations and complaining when things are hard to reach and the sidewalk isn't just so when you are perfectly capable of walking on your own. You don't have to pretend to be a minority or a handicapped person in order to advocate passionately for them. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 We can speculate, but given how much she has apparently made up I don't think we can just accept her accounts of abuse at face value. Boy who cried wolf and all that... Well, at least one of the other siblings also claims abuse and even the siblings supporting the parents acknowledge that they were very "strict" and used "corporal punishment". Most folks don't use the term "corporal punishment" to refer to just spankings. I think being awarded custody of the younger brother bolsters the abuse claim, though I would want to know whether he was removed from the parents' care and placed with her or whether the parents voluntarily gave her guardianship. Either way, they don't sound like stellar parents, and I do think her family-of-origin fits the Christian, adoptive parents abuse stereotype we've seen in recent years. I think the abuse claim appears to be the one thing she says that has some facts to back it up. Crazy, manipulative people with personality disorders can sometimes be telling the truth about their abusive childhoods. In fact, the abusive childhood may have played a role in the development of that personality disorder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This situation also reminds me of many of the recent implosions we've seen w/politicians, reality tv stars, etc. None of this would be a national headline story if she hadn't become so prominent. She could have quietly lived her life pretending to be a black woman and nobody would have been the wiser. Other people have done it. It's seeking attention and wanting the spotlight that brings these things into the light of day. This woman didn't have to seek leadership positions with the NAACP. She didn't have to make a bunch of noise over being the victim of a hate crime. Why would someone with so much to lose and so much to hide do that? (I'm thinking narcissism and/or personality disorder) Folks, if you've got secrets from your past or things you want to hide . . . keep a low profile. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This, no one ever wants to believe that someone would lie about such awful things about the people who should love them the most, much less that they could do unless their wasn't some truth to it. But it does happen. And yes, sometimes they convince even themselves. there is a man of my acquaintance whose daughter attempted to kill him. she nearly sliced off his thumb while he was asleep in bed and she started stabbing him. two other daughters also lived with them - they both say their sister was hanging out with some bad influences and had gone off the rail and that NONE of her accusations were true. however, no criminal charges were ever filed because some "victims rights" group got ahold of her and threatened to file s3xual abuse charges if there were criminal charges against her. I've lost contact - so I don't know if she ever came to her senses - but if she did, that could open her up to attempted murder charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This situation also reminds me of many of the recent implosions we've seen w/politicians, reality tv stars, etc. None of this would be a national headline story if she hadn't become so prominent. She could have quietly lived her life pretending to be a black woman and nobody would have been the wiser. Other people have done it. It's seeking attention and wanting the spotlight that brings these things into the light of day. This woman didn't have to seek leadership positions with the NAACP. She didn't have to make a bunch of noise over being the victim of a hate crime. Why would someone with so much to lose and so much to hide do that? (I'm thinking narcissism and/or personality disorder) Folks, if you've got secrets from your past or things you want to hide . . . keep a low profile. likely histrionic personality disorder in the specific. she has made much effort to change her appearance, and does many things to get attention and sympathy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I find it fascinating how rapidly this progressed to "it must be the conservative Christian parents' fault." I have no idea what her parents were actually like, but I know a number of loving conservative Christian families who have adopted. The stereotypes expressed here are insulting. 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well, at least one of the other siblings also claims abuse and even the siblings supporting the parents acknowledge that they were very "strict" and used "corporal punishment". Most folks don't use the term "corporal punishment" to refer to just spankings. Uh what? Yes, they do. All the time. On the other hand, I don't know anyone who calls getting a beating "corporal punishment". 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 In the interview the brother Ezra gave about his sister, he acknowledges the use of corporal punishment, but he also says that he was adopted out of a situation where there was physical abuse and that his adoptive parents were not physically abusive and that all of the children were treated very well. So you have two siblings both estranged from the parents saying there was abuse and at least one of the other children saying there was not and that the two estranged siblings are making stuff up. Who knows what to believe, but I'm hedging my bets with Ezra since the sister seems to be in a different head space. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 In the interview the brother Ezra gave about his sister, he acknowledges the use of corporal punishment, but he also says that he was adopted out of a situation where there was physical abuse and that his adoptive parents were not physically abusive and that all of the children were treated very well. So you have two siblings both estranged from the parents saying there was abuse and at least one of the other children saying there was not and that the two estranged siblings are making stuff up. Who knows what to believe, but I'm hedging my bets with Ezra since the sister seems to be in a different head space. *snort* "Different head space." There's a polite turn of phrase. :) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 *snort* "Different head space." There's a polite turn of phrase. :) I'm trying to be diplomatic instead of saying crazy nutter. ;) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Either way, they don't sound like stellar parents, and I do think her family-of-origin fits the Christian, adoptive parents abuse stereotype we've seen in recent years. Wow. So Christian adoptive parents are now stereotyped as abusers? Let me run up and let my 15 yo adopted daughter that everyone assumes I am abusing her. She's no Einstein, but she is smart enough to know that's absurd. What an amazing leap this thread has made based on no evidence at all. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Transethnic is a thing, as well as otherkin. Ooh, and transabled, too! "I don't feel as if I'm meant to live with this limb of my body so I had it removed. Now I don't have to live the lie of a fully working body." http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies From the article: As the public begins to embrace people who identify as transgender, the trans people within the disability movement are also seeking their due... But of course. Seeking their DUE. And just why are these people needing psychological care and counseling for wanting to remove limbs when some people want to remove their penis to be their "true self"? Why would we dare say that THEY--transabled--are only changing the outside and not addressing the disorder on the inside? I realize they are a very small minority, but now that people believe identity is so very fluid, I don't see how we can possibly differentiate between some of these "trans" groups. (As far as mental state and worthiness of special status, etc.) **I edited to say that my first quote above is NOT a quote from the article! I'm just giving the general sentiment that is shared by these people. Sorry if that confused anyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Ooh, and transabled, too! "I don't feel as if I'm meant to live with this limb of my body so I had it removed. Now I don't have to live the lie of a fully working body." http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies From the article: As the public begins to embrace people who identify as transgender, the trans people within the disability movement are also seeking their due... But of course. Seeking their DUE. And just why are these people needing psychological care and counseling for wanting to remove limbs when some people want to remove their penis to be their "true self"? Why would we dare say that THEY--transabled--are only changing the outside and not addressing the disorder on the inside? I realize they are a very small minority, but now that people believe identity is so very fluid, I don't see how we can possibly differentiate between some of these "trans" groups. (As far as mental state and worthiness of special status, etc.) Bolded: Ack. I feel this is spitting in the face of those who have lost a limb and now have to learn to live without it. Mental health is a precious thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well, at least one of the other siblings also claims abuse and even the siblings supporting the parents acknowledge that they were very "strict" and used "corporal punishment". Most folks don't use the term "corporal punishment" to refer to just spankings. I think being awarded custody of the younger brother bolsters the abuse claim, though I would want to know whether he was removed from the parents' care and placed with her or whether the parents voluntarily gave her guardianship. Either way, they don't sound like stellar parents, and I do think her family-of-origin fits the Christian, adoptive parents abuse stereotype we've seen in recent years. I think the abuse claim appears to be the one thing she says that has some facts to back it up. Crazy, manipulative people with personality disorders can sometimes be telling the truth about their abusive childhoods. In fact, the abusive childhood may have played a role in the development of that personality disorder. I'm not sure I buy that when someone says corporal punishment--and abuse in this case seems to be what you're looking for--they usually mean something more than spanking or paddling. The public school use of discipline is actually where I have most often heard the term. It CAN mean more than spanking, but it's speculation here, IMO. The bolded in your post is grossly offensive. If there is a stereotype it's because people like you create it in spite of the fact that most logical people are willing to accept that adoptive parents of ANY belief system are capable of abuse because PEOPLE have mental disorders, anger issues, abuse in their own past, etc. Please show me some stats that Christians are more likely to abuse adopted children. Even if, in this case, it ends up being true, does that just automatically erase her willingness to lie to the extent she has? She is unfit for her position, IMO, regardless of race. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Someone pointed out this started after her parents adopted and extreme sibling rivalry could be a factor. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Wow. So Christian adoptive parents are now stereotyped as abusers? Let me run up and let my 15 yo adopted daughter that everyone assumes I am abusing her. She's no Einstein, but she is smart enough to know that's absurd. What an amazing leap this thread has made based on no evidence at all. I gotta agree on this one. Having "strict" parents that use "corporal punishment" is not even on the radar of bad parenting much less "not stellar". Many are excellent parents with wonderful relationships with their children. They might have been awful people, but having a kid with mental illness is not usually the fault of the parents and we have no evidence at all that they were not good parents. More than willing to believe it, bc Christian or not people can be turds, but not based on anything currently provided. It's an interesting conundrum bc from the Christian home school community, she turned out this way bc the parents just didn't do being Christian or home schooling right. If they had, well we all know that's a guarantee kids will turn out rosey God fearing sweet tempered adults. /snark And yet from the non Christian, non homeschool community, the entire problem was they were "strict" Christians doing that crazy home schooling thing that we all know is a sure fire recipe for screwed up kids who rebel against their parent by being crazy. /equal snark Maybe this connundrum is one of the major reasons Christians are so nervous and unwilling to share their struggles, problems, and weaknesses to connect this to another recent thread. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VANURSEPRAC Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 My I interrupt for a moment.... My DD is 1/2 white (mom) and 1/2 Indian (Dad is from India). What would you put down on forms? . I usually just check both boxes of White and Asian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 My I interrupt for a moment.... My DD is 1/2 white (mom) and 1/2 Indian (Dad is from India). What would you put down on forms? . I usually just check both boxes of White and Asian. I let my kids decide but they usually put down white and Asian or "two or more races" (if such a category is on the form) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 That is interesting to me, bc depending on which Native American tribe one uses, it very well might qualify you to check Native American and most NA's wouldn't get angry about it. It's more likely to come down to record keeping than blood tests. And that's probably for the best, bc if they got too picky about blood tests, their tribe would be even further population decimated. ETA: I will add a proviso. I'm sure there are some NA who would get angry about it, bc there is always someone who will get angry about something. But mostly, as long as it is true, they don't. Some will push hard for more tribal involvement and identity, which I think is understandable. I think to qualify for NA, it needs to be at least 6.25% (1/16), which my children are. However, we've never checked it because it would just feel like we were trying to take advantage of a situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I gotta agree on this one. Having "strict" parents that use "corporal punishment" is not even on the radar of bad parenting much less "not stellar". Many are excellent parents with wonderful relationships with their children. They might have been awful people, but having a kid with mental illness is not usually the fault of the parents and we have no evidence at all that they were not good parents. More than willing to believe it, bc Christian or not people can be turds, but not based on anything currently provided. It's an interesting conundrum bc from the Christian home school community, she turned out this way bc the parents just didn't do being Christian or home schooling right. If they had, well we all know that's a guarantee kids will turn out rosey God fearing sweet tempered adults. /snark And yet from the non Christian, non homeschool community, the entire problem was they were "strict" Christians doing that crazy home schooling thing that we all know is a sure fire recipe for screwed up kids who rebel against their parent by being crazy. /equal snark Maybe this connundrum is one of the major reasons Christians are so nervous and unwilling to share their struggles, problems, and weaknesses to connect this to another recent thread. Ha. Yeah. Just a thought, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 All the lying is cut and dry...it's wrong, period. Race is a social construct and identification is a very fluid issue. However, there needs to be some self-awareness and honesty that comes with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have to wonder, though, what made her parents "out" her. Even if I completely disagreed with something my child was doing, I don't know that I'd take it to the media (and effectively end or put a damper on her career and lifestyle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think to qualify for NA, it needs to be at least 6.25% (1/16), which my children are. However, we've never checked it because it would just feel like we were trying to take advantage of a situation. It depends upone the tribe. You can still be NA and not belong to a tribe. Eastern Band Cherokee require 1/16th. Oklahoma Cherokee require a direct ancestor on the Dawes Rolls (and you're screwed if your ancestor had blended into white or black society by then or managed to skip the Rolls...for them though, it was survival). However, many times, if you put NA down, they will then ask you what tribe you have membership with. If you have no tribal affiliation (official membership), they pretty much tick it off as irrelavent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have to wonder, though, what made her parents "out" her. Even if I completely disagreed with something my child was doing, I don't know that I'd take it to the media (and effectively end or put a damper on her career and lifestyle). Because, dangit, their daughter was WHITE and how dare she insult them by not being WHITE. (basically, they got their panties in a twist) I don't agree with her lying, but their discrediting her sounds very personal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 My I interrupt for a moment.... My DD is 1/2 white (mom) and 1/2 Indian (Dad is from India). What would you put down on forms? . I usually just check both boxes of White and Asian. When it comes time for colleges, if there's a choice, I'd stick with white. At many schools Asians get the shaft with the "numbers game." Being an Asian female is the most difficult acceptance percentage-wise at schools where numbers matter. Asian male is second. White female is third. White male is fourth. NOT all schools use race to determine acceptances, and of course, there are differences between male/female with some schools (like RIT or RPI, etc) where there's an overabundance of males, but generally speaking... The article I read about this was from a few years ago (3?), so perhaps stats have changed, but I'll doubt it until I read something official that's more updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 That is interesting to me, bc depending on which Native American tribe one uses, it very well might qualify you to check Native American and most NA's wouldn't get angry about it. It's more likely to come down to record keeping than blood tests. And that's probably for the best, bc if they got too picky about blood tests, their tribe would be even further population decimated. ETA: I will add a proviso. I'm sure there are some NA who would get angry about it, bc there is always someone who will get angry about something. But mostly, as long as it is true, they don't. Some will push hard for more tribal involvement and identity, which I think is understandable. Yes, most Natives are more for record keeping than for blood tests, that I'm aware of from genealogy sites and Native groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Of course, it could be this, but... If I were in their shoes and knew my daughter was carrying out this charade (and possibly fraud), as the parent I would feel like I was an accomplice to the crime if I didn't speak up. An enabler, if you will. I certainly don't blame the parents one bit. Eta: Keep in mind, too, that it's not like their daughter was quietly living this lie, in which case the parents may have turned a blind eye to it. No, she is the leader of a large NAACP chapter, for goodness sake. Quite a difference, imo. It's one thing to lie to yourself, but it's quite another to lie to the public when you are in the public's eye. If I had an issue with it, I think I would have gone to the NAACP with it. I don't think I would have called the media over it. Granted, there could be more to the situation. I know her constant claims of being threatened didn't help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I have to wonder, though, what made her parents "out" her. Even if I completely disagreed with something my child was doing, I don't know that I'd take it to the media (and effectively end or put a damper on her career and lifestyle). my understanding is someone came to them and asked if she was their daughter. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 my understanding is someone came to them and asked if she was their daughter. This is my understanding as well. There were people who were questioning her background, and someone tracked down her parents and asked them. All they did was respond truthfully, and I don't see how they can be criticized for that? 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I wasn't aware that they had been approached. I was under the impression that they went to the media *shrugs*. Entirely understandable then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingiguana Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 So, just out of curiosity, anyone know how she changed her appearance? If she's getting her hair permed, wouldn't her hairdresser know for sure? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I really don't care how she identifies (racially) or how she wants to present her appearance. I don't actually "see" a difference in races anymore than I "see" a difference in my black, pinto, buckskin, or chestnut ponies (or dogs/cats, etc). But the lying? There are issues there. If not, can I claim Bill Gates is my father or that I'm from the Vanderbilt line? In general, can I look around this planet and "pick" the heritage/experiences I "had" even though there's not a shred of truth to it except in my daydreams? To me, that's the mental illness part. I know people IRL who fit that in similar ways (made up parts of their past to "impress" people in a way they want to). They are definitely mentally ill IMO. Yeah, this reminds me more of that German dude that claimed he was a Rockefeller... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 So, just out of curiosity, anyone know how she changed her appearance? If she's getting her hair permed, wouldn't her hairdresser know for sure? Yes, but whose hairdresser questions their hair choices based on race? Even if she thought it was extremely odd, anyone in a service industry like that who wanted to retain their client wouldn't say anything potentially offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I wasn't aware that they had been approached. I was under the impression that they went to the media *shrugs*. Entirely understandable then. I think it is wise to know facts before blasting people. The information about them being approached is not hard to find online. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think it is wise to know facts before blasting people. The information about them being approached is not hard to find online. Based upon what had been stated, it had appeared that the parents had approached the media (belief that this had been the fact). If they approached the media, then I would absolutely believe it was a personal issue and they wanted to broadcast it. If they were approached by the media and simply responded, then that's another story. Does that meet your approval? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I find it fascinating how rapidly this progressed to "it must be the conservative Christian parents' fault." I have no idea what her parents were actually like, but I know a number of loving conservative Christian families who have adopted. The stereotypes expressed here are insulting. Nobody has said that all adoptive Christian families are abusive. However, there have been several high-profile abuse cases in recent years that follow a specific pattern: religious family adopts several high-needs children all at once, family employs "strict" discipline and "corporal punishment" with the adoptive children, followed by accusations of abuse. I think it's fair to say that her family appears follows that pattern without it being taken as an accusation that all Christian adoptive families are abusive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 This is my understanding as well. There were people who were questioning her background, and someone tracked down her parents and asked them. All they did was respond truthfully, and I don't see how they can be criticized for that? I think this was unclear in some of the first articles about the case. Initially it gave the impression that the parents might have gone to the media to out their daughter. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we didn't have to read through multiple articles over the course of several days to get the entire story? Nowadays it's just a race to get the story out there on the internet first even if it's incomplete or incorrect. It makes me long for the good, old days when a reporter gathered all the information and did their fact-checking first before publishing a news article. Wouldn't that be nice? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think the media approached the parents, but I have to say from what I saw that it wasn't 100% clear. In any case, whether the media went to them or they went to the media, it was clear that it was in light of these alleged threats against her being covered in the media. And if those are as false as they appear now, she brought it on herself either way by purposefully putting the spotlight on herself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/13/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-adopted-brother/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 No one is talking about the cervical cancer she had which she didn't tell her brother about it when she was communicating with her and she was supposedly having the problem but suddently mentioned it four years later when her hate crime story is getting attention. In another article I read, it said she had a history of unfounded hate crime accusations she made. Oh and she isn't married anymore. She was only married for a few years, had a son with the man, and has been divorced for more than 10 years now. Maybe he couldn't deal with her delusions either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Nobody has said that all adoptive Christian families are abusive. However, there have been several high-profile abuse cases in recent years that follow a specific pattern: religious family adopts several high-needs children all at once, family employs "strict" discipline and "corporal punishment" with the adoptive children, followed by accusations of abuse. I think it's fair to say that her family appears follows that pattern without it being taken as an accusation that all Christian adoptive families are abusive. Ummm, you said that this fits a "stereotype" of conservative Christian families who adopt kids and then abuse them. A stereotype is a widely-held belief about a group of people, and apparently you've bought into this stereotype, as you referred to incidents "we've seen" of such things. Above, you refer again to "that pattern," obviously implying that there is indeed a pattern. Furthermore, as to the case at hand, I've seen nothing to indicate that the adopted boys were high-needs or even special needs. Maybe they were, but they looked perfectly handsome and healthy in the one picture that's making the rounds. I don't even see that they were all adopted at once. Maybe they were, but this is yet another leap that's been made on this thread. And no, it is NOT fair to say that this family follows "that pattern" based on the extremely scant evidence that is available. Maybe they're not even Christians. Perhaps they homeschooled because they live in sparsely-populated, lily-white Montana, and they didn't want their sons to spend three hours a day on a school bus surrounded by all white kids. Who knows??? What if your original statement said, "This act of violence by Muslims fits a stereotype we've seen of Muslims blowing up non-Muslims"? What if, every time someone is shot, you said, "This follows a pattern of Muslim violence. I'll bet it was Muslims." I marvel that there is still one group that it is okay to stereotype. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Interesting that she felt she was mistreated at Howard. She obviously has issues and has made up a whole lot of crap, but I wouldn't completely discount that allegation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 lol, only posting for my own satisfaction at having finally worked out what I really think. OK, so this is not like Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn is raising awareness of what it is like to be transgender, and her new life as an 'out' woman. Caitlyn is not attempting to deny her history, she is not pretending that she was not a recipient of male privilege for much of her life, she is not attempting to speak for women who have been accepted as female since birth. This other woman is not raising awareness of what it is like to be transracial, how it is to come 'out' as another-culture identified, she is not accepting of her white history or the years of privilege she gained from it, and she is attempting to speak as someone black from birth. One is honest, specific to the person's lived experiences,and does not attempt to co-opt the lived experiences of others. The other is not. I disagree. It seems that your evaluation of one right vs the other wrong boils down to whether someone is making a public advocacy that you approve of. If she hadn't lied, but simply had not corrected assumptions and lived her life as a AA, bc that's what she identified as, would that have been okay? I also disagree that Jenner isn't denying privledge. Jenner's fame and fortune most certainly contribute. He is still using a very privledged status in society to attain what he wants. It's not like he is going to lose his job over it. And it's not like he was ever a particuliarly stellar father to begin with. But he calls himself a spokesperson and that seems to wipe the slate clean and attain hero status. Let me put it this way, why does how they are dressing and wearing makeup need a social explaination to be okay in one case and not the other. You find Jenner's explaination acceptable and her's is not. I don't find either explaination socially or morally acceptable. We can agree to disagree of course. I'm just stating why I think what I do. :) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 Making up hate crimes against you makes me think mental illness. Nobody in their right mind does that. Sure they do. Just like people make up lies about their boyfriend knocking them around and many other things. There's a wide space between normal health right thinking folks and bat guano crazy and a weird over lapping at times too. I wish it was that easy tho. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I'm curious to know how we think our reactions would change if this were: A black person presenting herself as white? A white person presenting as Native American? A Hispanic person presenting as Asian? An American representing themselves as French? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Just a bit of clarification to see if I'm piecing this together correctly. She did her undergrad at Belhaven and, then, her Masters of Fine Arts at Howard, not her undergrad at Howard, right? If she went to Belhaven, it would fit with her parents being Christians, and maybe even with her being homeschooled, as the school is Christian, has been very supportive to homeschoolers, and it has a very, very fine art department. It is the only Christian college in the nation that is nationally accredited in visual arts, theater, dance, and music, and one of only a few dozen colleges total that have all four arts accreditations. Several of us have kids who have looked at or gone to Belhaven. Their common course program that all students take is very classically oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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