NAACP - Dolezals - Fraud AA allegations

[Murphy101]

I'm surprised this isn't already being discussed here.

 

Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/12/spokane-naacp-president-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/

 

USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/12/spokane-naacp-president-ethnicity-questions/71110110/

[Guest]

I know. Crazy stuff.

 

Now, I don't think her being white should disallow her advocacy for the group, especially if it is a cause she feels passionately about. But the whole lying thing is bizarre.

[unsinkable]

NAACP official, college professor accused of pretending to be black...

 

Is the title of the article by Slate.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/12/rachel_dolezal_naacp_official_college_professor_accused_of_pretending_to.html

 

She's being *accused* by her white birth parents.

 

:confused: I'd think they'd know.

[Butter]

Now, I don't think her being white should disallow her advocacy for the group, especially if it is a cause she feels passionately about. But the whole lying thing is bizarre.

 

This.  She clearly is very passionate about African American rights.  Perhaps she felt she either wouldn't be taken seriously if she presented herself as white or wouldn't be allowed/welcome in the positions she's ended up in.  Perhaps she is right.

[Slartibartfast]

That's insane.

[.Michelle.]

How bizarre.

[unsinkable]

How bizarre.

And now, that song is in my head. :lol:

[.Michelle.]

It's the song I hum while perusing most of the news.

[.Michelle.]

From the second link:

 

 

 

In addressing public sentiment that she misrepresented her race, Dolezal said, "I can understand that. And like I said, it's more important to me to clarify that to the black community, and with my executive board, than it really is for me to explain it to a community that I quite frankly don't think understands the definitions of race and ethnicity."

 

Hmmm.

[Murmer]

In a small way I can understand maybe sorta why she did it???  As the white mom of black kids at times I feel like I have a small window on being black and at times I feel like my experiences is filtered through the lens of my black child...so occasionally when I am asked about race I will say black and white when that would make sense but when I am asked specifically about MY race I am white...so perhaps as the sister of black siblings she was viewing the world through their lens but if it is as claimed she is white with a perspective on being black via her siblings, (spouse and children even perhaps??).

[Chelli]

I read the other article linked from the Slate article and she appears to be mentally ill to me.

 

This article talks about how she claimed that her adopted brother (who is African-American) was actually her son and that an African-American man that she was photographed with was her father when he is actually a former co-worker. She apparently filed a lot of false police reports about being harassed and threatened because she was black or involved in civil rights groups. 

 

I was proud that the NAACP said that it didn't matter to them if she was white because race is not a requirement to be in leadership positions in the NAACP. We'll see if it matters to them that she lied repeatedly about her family and her race.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was raised in an Asian country and speak the language and culture fluently.  I can strongly identify with that culture.  However, I am not Japanese.  I used to get a kick out of my young (at the time) children telling people that I was Japanese but I always explained that while I was born and raised there, that I was not Japanese.  There is nothing wrong with Dolezal identifying with black culture and advocating for it but lying is crossing boundaries big time.  She's also benefited financially from at least lying by omission in letting people think she was AA in college.  

[rebbyribs]

It's so bizarre!  I really wonder if there's more to it.  It sounds like the parents are estranged from at least 2 of their adult kids, which makes me a little suspicious of their story.

[Guest]

It almost seems like a Munchausen type issue, complete with delusions and attention seeking. Regardless of the fallout I hope she gets some help.

[.Michelle.]

I think the kids they're estranged from are Rachel and the brother she claims is her son.

 

ETA: Also, the birth certificate and family photos they've released certainly show the truth of their claims.  

Edited June 12, 2015 by .Michelle.

[SKL]

Very strange.  I do think she did it in part to qualify for employment/benefits.  But still, it is pretty extreme.

 

The article I read said she hasn't had contact with her parents for many years.  Something isn't right and it goes back a ways.

[Cinder]

I hope the focus of this whole issue will be based on the content of her character rather than the color of her skin.

[Lady Florida.]

I hope the focus of this whole issue will be based on the content of her character rather than the color of her skin.

 

Exactly! I also hope people won't start badmouthing civil rights activists as a whole and the continued civil rights movement because of her bizarre actions.

[unsinkable]

I hope the focus of this whole issue will be based on the content of her character rather than the color of her skin.

I'm not following you.

 

Her character is the problem bc she allegedly lied about her race, which colloquially is usually identified as skin color.

 

What part don't you want the focus on?

[zoobie]

The Twitter #askrachel search has some pretty entertaining stuff. Of course it's not as funny if she's mentally ill.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm not following you.

 

Her character is the problem bc she allegedly lied about her race, which colloquially is usually identified as skin color.

 

What part don't you want the focus on?

Except that if she were truly biracial (which she isn't) then some people can "pass as white".  There the focus would be on ethnic/genetic background.  And hers is European.  

 

I agree with you 100% on the problem being with her character as a liar.  

 

 

Did anyone catch where she said that "we're all from the continent of Africa?"  If you want to go back that far, then there would be no  racial distinctions at all.  

[Sneezyone]

Black Americans come in all colors and hair textures. I have several biracial cousins who looked very much like this woman as kids and who, unless they self-identify, are not known to be black. Ms. Dolezal's color is of no import but her inability to be honest is sad. I find it funny that she's tried so hard to put on a mantle that others find burdensome and wish to discard. She really didn't have to abandon her own to embrace something new. It's more indicative, to me, of insecurity than malicious intent or mental illness.

[gardenmom5]

I read the other article linked from the Slate article and she appears to be mentally ill to me.

 

This article talks about how she claimed that her adopted brother (who is African-American) was actually her son and that an African-American man that she was photographed with was her father when he is actually a former co-worker. She apparently filed a lot of false police reports about being harassed and threatened because she was black or involved in civil rights groups.

 

I was proud that the NAACP said that it didn't matter to them if she was white because race is not a requirement to be in leadership positions in the NAACP. We'll see if it matters to them that she lied repeatedly about her family and her race.

Histrionic personality disorder was suggested by someone. We've discussed personality disorders before. She does sound mentally ill and attention seeking.

[Farrar]

This is the weirdest story ever. I liked the Jezebel article on it where they basically just kept asking wtf over and over.

 

It may make my head explode it's so... weird.

 

She lied and obviously that's uncool to say the least. And she may have also been fabricating threats against her, which is also terrible and a waste of police resources. But I feel like it does raise a ton of issues about what is race. I mean, she has been living a life and walking around with a look that reads as African-American for the last decade or more. Does she have any claim to cultural blackness? Or not? Or is DNA more important? And, actually, DNA is so weird. Like, sometimes those things tell people they have ancestry that they have zero documentation of or cultural connection with. Which matters more? Would we have more sympathy for her if she was passing as white and lying? And if so, what does that say?

[MinivanMom]

. . .

[poppy]

On the other hand, since race is completely a social construct, who cares? The only thing that makes a person black is identifying as black or being identified by others as black (see: the president). Not genetics or the old 1% rule.

 

Lying about sons isn't ok. But " passing " by itself is not a crime or immoral act.

[Sneezyone]

Personally, I don't have any sympathy for anyone passing as anything. You are who you are, own it. There are many people who are embraced by and become immersed in other cultures, be they Native or African or Chinese, whatever. That doesn't make you Native or Asian or a descendant of black Africans. None of that requires the rejection of self that she, apparently, engaged in. I see her need to assume certain physical characteristics as pathetic because appearance does not define cultural blackness. Never has, never will.

[Farrar]

On the other hand, since race is completely a social construct, who cares? The only thing that makes a person black is identifying as black or being identified by others as black (see: the president). Not genetics or the old 1% rule.

 

Lying about sons isn't ok. But " passing " by itself is not a crime or immoral act.

 

Well, she didn't lie about her son exactly. She has custody of him and acts as his mother and it's not like she's young and he's a teen. I'm not sure exactly, but it seems they're far enough apart that she could be his mother. He's a tiny kid in that wedding photo of hers. I think saying she's his "mom" isn't so out of line exactly.

 

She did lie about her father. She said the man who is her father is her step-father and that a man in a photo that her mother says she never met is her father.

 

And she kept saying things that implied she was black. Like, over and over and over.

[unsinkable]

I read an article about this case earlier this morning and thought, "Wow, she sounds mentally ill." Then I read the linked articles with the photos of her as a teen and was a little rattled by how much she resembles me back in the 80's. I guess when I read the first article, I was imagining someone who could easily pass as a woman of color. I wasn't expecting the red hair and freckles, though I have known biracial kids with that kind of coloring. Having grown up as a minority white in a poorer community of color, I have a few thoughts.

 

It's hard to be the only white kid in the school. I had the roughest time at the high school I attended my sophomore year. I knew one boy there who was trying to pass as Hispanic even though he was 100% Caucasian. He didn't straight up lie to people, but one of his uncles had a wife who was Mexican so he had Hispanic cousins, included a popular girl in the same grade as us. This boy aggressively made sure that everyone knew this popular Latina girl was his cousin. He talked about it constantly, and he had dark enough coloring that people just assumed that he must be Hispanic also. He didn't lie, but his intention was obvious and he didn't correct people. It was a rough school, and it was hard to be white there.

 

It's easy to start identifying with a subculture when members of your immediate family belong to that subculture. My ex-stepsister strongly identified with African-American culture growing up. She had a black stepfather during her entire childhood and a younger biracial sibling (child of her mother & the stepfather). She may not have been biracial, but she grew up in a biracial family and was very close to her stepfather, who was her primary father figure. She never told anyone she was black (she was a blonde), but she gravitated toward black friends and was quick to assert the fact that she lived in a biracial family. It was a very strong part of her identity. She is now the principal of a predominantly black school in a poorer neighborhood and her partner is black.

 

It is not at all surprising to me that a woman who grew up in a family where all her siblings were black, lived in a community that was predominantly black, and attended a school that was predominantly black would begin to identify strongly with African-American culture. I understand why she wanted to go to Howard. I can even imagine that she didn't mean to deceive anyone at first. Maybe it started with changing her hair so that she fit in better with her peers. Then people started assuming she was biracial, and she simply didn't correct them. Eventually she was awarded custody of the younger African-American brother and started to refer to him as her 'son'. That doesn't seem too out there to me either. I have known people who have adopted or taken legal guardianship of siblings, nieces, nephews, or grandchildren who began referring to them as their 'child'. In a legal sense, they are their child. Even with a normal person, I can see how it could happen. It would just start to pile up over time and then begin to spiral out of control.

 

Now, I'm not trying to make excuses for her, and obviously there's some crazy going on here if the accusations about faking hate crimes are true. I don't know if she's mentally ill or has a personality disorder or just loved her new identity so much that she let it all spiral out of control. I do know that there's something wrong with her parents if they lost custody of their adopted son to their estranged daughter. There's something wrong with any parent that would so publicly out their daughter in the media for something that isn't actually a crime. She may be a little crazy, but it doesn't sound like she could have had a very stable upbringing either. I'm wondering whether the faking of hate crimes led the media to her family or whether her family going to the media led to the discovery that she faked hate crimes.

I agree with your conclusions but I don't think they all apply to this woman's circumstances. I think she grew up in Monatna or Idaho, not somewhere where she was the ethnic minority. I also think her siblings were adopted when she was older, like an older teen.

[MinivanMom]

I agree with your conclusions but I don't think they apply to this woman's circumstances. I think she grew up in Monatna or Idaho, not somewhere where she was the ethnic minority. I also think her siblings were adopted when she was older, like an older teen.

 

I thought I read in one of the articles that she grew up in Mississippi.

[Cinder]

I'm not following you.

 

Her character is the problem bc she allegedly lied about her race, which colloquially is usually identified as skin color.

 

What part don't you want the focus on?

 

When I first read this I thought there were 2 questions, one being whether she could be an effective advocate because she is white. And I thought that the other question of her integrity should be the primary focus. But I see that in this case it's all tied together as one question.

[ErinE]

I thought I read in one of the articles that she grew up in Mississippi.

I think she was married in Mississippi. Her birth certificate is Montana.

[Farrar]

Some of the life experiences things are muddy. She says she lived in S.A. as a kid. But that's not true - the parents did go there as missionaries, but when she was in college, I think. But some of the things the mother said did imply that she grew up in a community that was really multi-racial. But maybe I was misunderstanding that.

[Farrar]

Also, this is horrible, but she has alleged that the parents abused her and the brother/son. I hate to say it, but evangelicals who adopt a lot of kids... I've just read too many stories where the abuse has turned out to be true of these families, who, for whatever reason, also tend to be followers of the Pearls. I think there's a lot of layers to this onion.

 

ETA: I hope that's all untrue though. I mean, obviously many people fit that profile who are great people too.

[Kathryn]

Are the parents evangelicals? The article I read this morning said that she claimed she lived in a teepee and the parents said that was a lie, that they did that before she was born. I was imagining some hippie-type parents.

 

Also, what I read said that the four AA siblings were adopted when she was in high school. From her wedding picture, they must have been babies or very small children. It's not like they grew up together.

[Anne in CA]

This whole thing is so weird. The only people I have known IRL who like on this level are diagnosed with genuine mental illness. Sadly I have known two. But I find it really, really offensive that she misused a scholarship like that. I consider that fraud, and I think Harvard should make her pay for it.

[Murphy101]

This whole thing is so weird. The only people I have known IRL who like on this level are diagnosed with genuine mental illness. Sadly I have known two. But I find it really, really offensive that she misused a scholarship like that. I consider that fraud, and I think Harvard should make her pay for it.

It's not illegal though and there's no way to make her pay it back unless they require everyone who requests it to submit DNA and insist the DNA must show a certain level of a race within it.

 

The Jenner correlation is coming up a few times in my FB feed and is why I came here to see what the hive was discussing. Interesting to me it hasn't come up here.

 

If a person can mentally and emotionally not be in agreement with their gender, why not their race/ethnicity? Why is one acceptable and not the other? Why is one a mental illness and the other not?

[Guest]

It's not illegal though and there's no way to make her pay it back unless they require everyone who requests it to submit DNA and insist the DNA must show a certain level of a race within it.

 

The Jenner correlation is coming up a few times in my FB feed and is why I came here to see what the hive was discussing. Interesting to me it hasn't come up here.

 

If a person can mentally and emotionally not be in agreement with their gender, why not their race/ethnicity? Why is one acceptable and not the other? Why is one a mental illness and the other not?

I decided that wasn't a productive kettle of fish to fry on a forum like this. But suffice to say it makes me wonder where the line is between okay and mentally ill, and who decides?

 

I don't think this has any bearing on the NAACP as a whole - the fraudulent identity, conduct, and lies are my concern.

[.Michelle.]

Transethnic is a thing, as well as otherkin.

[.Michelle.]

People who believe they are non-human.

[Murphy101]

I don't think transrace disorder is even a thing ?

 

My thinking on transgender issues evolved over a decade or so as I learned more, so I suppose if this exists as a real thing, it's possible my thinking could evolve on it as well.

 

My objection is to the dishonesty. If she had been speaking as a person with a 'transrace' identity, then I would have fewer problems with her presentation.

But doesnt that require her to accept someone else's definition of her?

What's more, does that mean people must justify or qualify their claimed ethnicity?

[Farrar]

Are the parents evangelicals? The article I read this morning said that she claimed she lived in a teepee and the parents said that was a lie, that they did that before she was born. I was imagining some hippie-type parents.

 

Also, what I read said that the four AA siblings were adopted when she was in high school. From her wedding picture, they must have been babies or very small children. It's not like they grew up together.

 

The parents worked for something called Creation Ministries as missionaries and there was some other thing the mom said in one of the articles that made me think they were evangelicals. I thought maybe the teepee thing was a bit of an off the grid sort of thing. But if I'm wrong, forgive me. I don't actually know anything about the mission work they apparently did.

 

ETA: Well, assuming it's this same Creation Ministries, I looked it up and it's apparently a YEC group that's related to Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis. So, yeah, I'm thinking they're evangelicals.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If a minority is a protected class, and you represent yourself falsely as part of that protected class, then it goes beyond simply how  you self identify.  I don't see any problem with her identifying with the AA culture as such.  The implication in the Wash. Post article was that the scholarship she got was one for AA students.  (Because it said "the university took her for a black woman and gave her a full scholarship." )  As a white woman, even if she self identifies as black, she hasn't had to deal with some of the roadblocks set in the way of black people.  

[Farrar]

If a minority is a protected class, and you represent yourself falsely as part of that protected class, then it goes beyond simply how  you self identify.  I don't see any problem with her identifying with the AA culture as such.  The implication in the Wash. Post article was that the scholarship she got was one for AA students.  (Because it said "the university took her for a black woman and gave her a full scholarship." )  As a white woman, even if she self identifies as black, she hasn't had to deal with some of the roadblocks set in the way of black people.  

 

That was so unclear. I wondered about that too. But I'm pretty sure she was at Howard before she was married and in the wedding photo she's much more obviously white in her hair and skin tone. I mean, I can only assume she showed up at Howard and they met her and could draw their own conclusions.

[Murphy101]

That was so unclear. I wondered about that too. But I'm pretty sure she was at Howard before she was married and in the wedding photo she's much more obviously white in her hair and skin tone. I mean, I can only assume she showed up at Howard and they met her and could draw their own conclusions.

But they can't draw their own conclusions? Bc someone could be AA and look very much like a white person. Even a very white person with blond hair and light eyes.

 

If someone is in fact of some level of AA genetics, 1/8th? Idk. Pick a number. And they decided to claim their AA ethnicity even though they don't look the part so to speak, are you saying the school should then require proof of genetic heritage? And if so, how much?

 

I am certain there are a LOT of white folks who have more AA or NA than they think they do.

And likewise, I'm certain there are plenty of AA kids who look very dark even though they have very little AA relations in their family tree.

[WagsWife]

I don't agree or support the lying...however...Why can't she be "Transracial?"  I don't really see this as any different.

[Farrar]

I do think that she ought to return the money from the full scholarship to Howard. She took away money that was earmarked for someone who is not her. That is unethical.

 

If that's true, then she should. But I'm not sure that's true. It wasn't clear to me that the scholarship was marked as only for black students, for example. The article isn't clear on that. Howard is just such a black institution - I wouldn't be surprised if the application was race blind. And they admitted her on her body of work, which was African-American portraits. If the scholarship was race blind then shouldn't she be judged on her work?

 

Martha, you may be right. I don't know. I mostly just meant that I don't think she was representing herself as "black" at that point, though I could be wrong. 

[unsinkable]

The birth certificate doesn't really prove anything, since if her mother had had an affair resulting in pregnancy the mother's husband's name would be on the birth certificate unless she 'fessed up or he challenged it. It could be that she found out that her biological father is someone other than her legal father but her parents were upset that she didn't keep that a secret and are lying to cover up the affair. Or she might have identified so strongly with being black that she convinced herself that she was the product of an affair and her "real father" was black.

 

The equivocating around "if you go back far enough we're all from Africa" makes me think the second option is more likely, but the birth certificate would look the same either way.

Kind of like when I was 5, and mad at my mom about something and I was convinced that Wonder Woman was my real mom?

 

Or not...

[Murphy101]

If that's true, then she should. But I'm not sure that's true. It wasn't clear to me that the scholarship was marked as only for black students, for example. The article isn't clear on that. Howard is just such a black institution - I wouldn't be surprised if the application was race blind. And they admitted her on her body of work, which was African-American portraits. If the scholarship was race blind then shouldn't she be judged on her work?

 

Martha, you may be right. I don't know. I mostly just meant that I don't think she was representing herself as "black" at that point, though I could be wrong.

I guess it would depend on whether checking the ethnic box "AA" is enough to say she was representing herself as black even if her hair and skin wasn't as ethnic as it is now?

 

That sure seems flimsy reasoning tho, yes?

[.Michelle.]

The scholarship issue keeps reminding me of that particular bit of awfulness which is the movie Soul Man.