NAACP - Dolezals - Fraud AA allegations

[Farrar]

I guess it would depend on whether checking the ethnic box "AA" is enough to say she was representing herself as black even if her hair and skin wasn't as ethnic as it is now?

 

That sure seems flimsy reasoning tho, yes?

 

But I don't think we know that she was doing that then. We know that she has been checking that box more recently. But she may have checked "Caucasian" or just "Refuse to answer" when she applied to Howard. I don't really know for sure.

[.Michelle.]

I don't think it's apples and apples.

 

One is a purely cultural construct. The other isn't.

Isn't gender a social construct?

[Liz CA]

"If a person can mentally and emotionally not be in agreement with their gender, why not their race/ethnicity? Why is one acceptable and not the other? Why is one a mental illness and the other not?"

 

Martha, I've been wondering the same thing, though too afraid to say anything, figuring that I'm obviously missing some important piece of the puzzle that everyone else sees that I don't. The way I see it, if we accept one, then we must accept the other.

 

Eta: I mean no disrespect, honestly. I'm just trying to understand why one mental disconnect is okay, but the other isn't. What am I missing here?

 

And this is where it's headed, I think. We can be anybody we choose to be - nothing is predetermined anymore.

 

BTW, her childhood pictures look like mine (and I am of Czech/Norwegian/German descent) and I am flabbergasted that she thought it would not come out and become an issue. Am I missing something here? Did she really think this would pass?

 

ETA: I was just reminded of a man in our former hometown who strongly identified with the Native Americans. He looked the part until I became his mother's caregiver and she laughed and said to me: ""Joe" is no more Native American than you or I." I don't know that he committed fraud to avail himself of benefits earmarked for Native Americans, though.

[Murphy101]

It's nothing too new, though apparently what matters is whether they are off their rocker or just liars. What happens when someone starts to believe their own lies? And why would that be more acceptable?

 

*headache*

 

From Slate, whites impersonating AA in history.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/12/other_white_americans_have_pretended_to_be_black_rachel_dolezal_s_predecessors.html?wpisrc=burger_bar

[Liz CA]

But they can't draw their own conclusions? Bc someone could be AA and look very much like a white person. Even a very white person with blond hair and light eyes.

 

If someone is in fact of some level of AA genetics, 1/8th? Idk. Pick a number. And they decided to claim their AA ethnicity even though they don't look the part so to speak, are you saying the school should then require proof of genetic heritage? And if so, how much?

 

I am certain there are a LOT of white folks who have more AA or NA than they think they do.

And likewise, I'm certain there are plenty of AA kids who look very dark even though they have very little AA relations in their family tree.

 

Oh...this brings up other issues as well. The Native American Aleuts for example have some kind of minimum percentage a person has to have in order to qualify for some benefits (they used to anyway - haven't researched recently). What percentage is going to be the cut off for qualifying supposing she can somehow prove she has an iota of Black in her?

 

I really only take issue with the defrauding of the system (lying) or supposed defrauding - I don't care if the spokesperson and advocate for NAACP is white, black or something else.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I guess it would depend on whether checking the ethnic box "AA" is enough to say she was representing herself as black even if her hair and skin wasn't as ethnic as it is now?

 

That sure seems flimsy reasoning tho, yes?

There is no particular legal implication to checking a box on a survey etc.  The only implication of fraud is when that box comes with financial benefits.  So - a job set aside for minorities for example.  The NAACP says there is no race criteria for working for them or being chair.  So she did not defraud them.  She may not have defrauded Howard either.  But the Wash. Post implied it.  If they implied incorrectly them I would assume that they could be sued for libel.  

 

My own kids could check three different boxes on forms - four, if you count "other".  All legitimately.  

[Farrar]

There is no particular legal implication to checking a box on a survey etc.  The only implication of fraud is when that box comes with financial benefits.  So - a job set aside for minorities for example.  The NAACP says there is no race criteria for working for them or being chair.  So she did not defraud them.  She may not have defrauded Howard either.  But the Wash. Post implied it.  If they implied incorrectly them I would assume that they could be sued for libel.  

 

My own kids could check three different boxes on forms - four, if you count "other".  All legitimately.  

 

Well, the way they put it seemed open to interpretation. I think she probably did take a scholarship intended for a black student, but I'm genuinely not positive. I don't think WaPo could be sued for libel for something so vague. I can't imagine that would go anywhere assuming the basic facts - she went to Howard on a full scholarship - are correct.

[mom2hunangirls]

I have some friends that went to college with her in MS, they said she came in obviously white, but became very involved in Jackson (MS) civil rights and by the end people wondered if she was biracial but it was never discussed. She never confirmed or denied it. She apparently is a great artist with mostly African American themes. Her works are displayed around town.

Her behavior seems to say that she really feels she's African American. What about transgendered males getting sports scholarships meant for females? Is it DNA that matters or how they genuinely feel?

Right or wrong I think it's just the sort of things that are going to start coming up a lot.

[Slojo]

So, my take on it is that "something's up." It's just bizarre. The NAACP has a long history of white people in its leadership, so it's not like she's traversing uncharted territory as a white person. In fact, the national NAACP President was not an African American until 1975. The founding members were a multi-racial group. Many white Jewish individuals, seeing common cause with the history and social plight of African Americans were heavily involved in the leadership. Albert Einstein was a member of his local NAACP. Seems like a local NAACP president would know and embrace that rich history. While it is true that most NAACP presidents are black (and, I think there's nothing wrong with promoting black leadership within organizations focused on black people just as there is nothing wrong with the vast majority of women's organizations being run by women), there have always been white presidents of local NAACP chapters.  I think a(n acknowledging/embracing of her identity) white NAACP president would have been powerful. Even I knew that history growing up - my grandparents were lifelong members, and I was a member (it was a requirement) as a kid.

 

It doesn't quite sit well with me to just claim being black, and I don't think transracial is a thing. Unless it gets to work the other way around. I'm African American. Can I claim to be white and get a better deal on my next car loan?  It's disingenuous. Be really comfortable around black people, love black people and black culture, be really culturally adept in and around black communities, but the double-speak, and the scholarship and the "maybe this is my black father/maybe this is some random black dude" but I'm not telling is bizarre. If she fully respects the black experience, then she must respect that there are some aspects of that that aren't really hers to claim. Now she's created a distraction for the organization and a credibility issue for herself.

[ondreeuh]

But they can't draw their own conclusions? Bc someone could be AA and look very much like a white person. Even a very white person with blond hair and light eyes.

 

If someone is in fact of some level of AA genetics, 1/8th? Idk. Pick a number. And they decided to claim their AA ethnicity even though they don't look the part so to speak, are you saying the school should then require proof of genetic heritage? And if so, how much?

 

I am certain there are a LOT of white folks who have more AA or NA than they think they do.

And likewise, I'm certain there are plenty of AA kids who look very dark even though they have very little AA relations in their family tree.

 

These are such excellent points.

 

Isn't sometimes the purpose of defining race to identify people who have endured discrimination or institutional roadblocks? Seems like that is kind of the point of a race-based scholarship - to offset the disadvantages of being a certain race. So then someone who is biracial but looks "white" would seem less deserving than someone who was darker complected even if everything else was equal.

 

Sometimes race is used to identify the ability to understand or relate to a culture - such as when it's used for preferential hiring You can have a ethnically African person who was raised in a Caucasian family and identifies with "white culture" and have an ethnically Caucasian person who was raised in a Black family and identifies with "black culture." Using race as a criteria of need or cultural understanding is meaningless in some cases.

 

It all comes back to: what is the purpose of defining race? And is there a better way to identify who you are trying to reach? Scholarships for people who graduated from certain schools? Preferential hiring for people who live in certain neighborhoods or who hold certain types of jobs? Asking for a 1000-word essay on the value of diversity? ;)

 

I had my genotype done via 23andme and the results were a little surprising. I am something like 96% Northern European and 99.9% broadly European, yet my family tree shows several branches of Native American ancestry that do not show up in my genotype. I give credit to the NA people for some of my ancestry even though it's not quantifiable on a blood test, but I wouldn't feel right claiming scholarships or benefits because my NA ancestry did not negatively impact me in any way.

[indigomama]

It's nothing too new, though apparently what matters is whether they are off their rocker or just liars. What happens when someone starts to believe their own lies? And why would that be more acceptable?

 

*headache*

 

From Slate, whites impersonating AA in history.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/12/other_white_americans_have_pretended_to_be_black_rachel_dolezal_s_predecessors.html?wpisrc=burger_bar

 

 

That article referenced Clarence King, he was a famous geographer. I read a book about him, Passing Strange, it was really interesting. He basically lived a double life, one as a white bachelor geographer, and one as a married black man who worked as a pullman. 

[mamajag]

It's so bizarre! I really wonder if there's more to it. It sounds like the parents are estranged from at least 2 of their adult kids, which makes me a little suspicious of their story.

How can one be suspicious of parents' assertions of their child's race? There are pictures of her as a pasty blonde child. She's never been to Africa, and almost every part of her life is a lie.

 

Being white shouldn't disqualify her from advocating for minorities, but her lies have done a disservice to every cause she's been involved with. She needs a competent mental evaluation and lots of compassionate care.

[mamajag]

I hope the focus of this whole issue will be based on the content of her character rather than the color of her skin.

What does it say about her character if she built a life on lies?

[Farrar]

What does it say about her character if she built a life on lies?

 

I think that was Cinder's point - that her character is what's at question (and doesn't come out looking so good at this point), not the color of her skin because some people who are much more legitimately of African-American descent have light skin tones.

[Rivka]

There are sound biological and psychological reasons to believe that gender is a fundamental aspect of the way we understand ourselves and identify ourselves as human beings. Because so much of that happens in the brain, it is meaningful to say that someone can "be" the gender their brain tells them they are, even in the absence of gonadal confirmation.

 

Race, on the other hand, is a social construct. Racial identity is a fundamental part of our self-concept if we're living in a multiracial society in which race matters (and all of us are), but it's easy to imagine situations in which race would not figure into someone's self-concept at all. Taking a historical view, we see that "races" are created and disappear (there used to be plenty of official scientific documents which referenced "the Italian race," for example) and that they change in definition (for example, the "one drop" rule of African-American heritage). It is much, much harder to imagine situations in which someone might never think twice about whether they are male or female, or situations in which certain genders are recognized for a while and then aren't recognized anymore. Race just isn't a biological thing the way gender is.

 

My problem is not that she identifies with African-American culture. It's that she systematically presented herself as a person who should be paid special attention and given special credence because of her "race." She didn't just live a quiet, ordinary life somewhere as a black person. She spoke out about African-Americans as an insider expert. She called attention to the "hate crimes" she supposedly suffered. And her takeover of the spotlight lessened the opportunity for real African-American women's experiences to be heard.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The commentator on the news tonight was saying that her race didn't matter  but her lying went to her credibility as a leader.  

[mamajag]

I don't agree or support the lying...however...Why can't she be "Transracial?" I don't really see this as any different.

Because she's unwittingly making a mockery of minorities and took scholarships and opportunities intended for actual minorities.

 

There's no such thing as transracial...just a woman who seems to have had a psychological break around the time her parents adopted AA kids. She needs care.

[rebbyribs]

How can one be suspicious of parents' assertions of their child's race? There are pictures of her as a pasty blonde child. She's never been to Africa, and almost every part of her life is a lie.

 

Being white shouldn't disqualify her from advocating for minorities, but her lies have done a disservice to every cause she's been involved with. She needs a competent mental evaluation and lots of compassionate care.

 

Non-paternity is more common than people like to admit.  

 

Growing up, I went to school with girls whose hair was permed and dyed blonde throughout their childhood.  Their natural hair was brown and straight.  

 

I don't know what the truth is here. However, it seems possible that she does have some African American ancestry that her parents denied and that they played up her Caucasian appearance somewhat.

[SKL]

Race may be a social construct, but when you are given checkboxes and one of the boxes is "black / African-American," we all know that is a matter of biology.  True, you can identify as black if you have a lot of other colors mixed with black.  But I couldn't check "black" without knowing I'm lying.  Also, my dark-skinned daughters and many of my dark-skinned friends could not check "black" without knowing it is a lie.

 

I don't like a lot of things about the social construct that we call race.  Like, why is a person automatically "black" (or "biracial") if he has any amount of African blood and features?  Why does anyone care if a person with African and European blood wants to identify as white?  What about those twins who are biracial and one looks totally white while the other looks totally black?  Which box do they check?  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/feat-black-white-twins/index.html http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=15247.0  But none of that applies to a person who doesn't have a drop of African blood.

[WagsWife]

Because she's unwittingly making a mockery of minorities and took scholarships and opportunities intended for actual minorities.

 

There's no such thing as transracial...just a woman who seems to have had a psychological break around the time her parents adopted AA kids. She needs care.

How is she making a mockery? She identifies as an African American. There was a time when "Transsexual" was not a thing either. Men who identified as being a woman (or vice versa) had a mental illness--psychological break. But now we have the federal govt saying that I need to be willing to share a public restroom with a man.

[Guest]

How is she making a mockery? She identifies as an African American. There was a time when "Transsexual" was not a thing either. Men who identified as being a woman (or vice versa) had a mental illness--psychological break. But now we have the federal govt saying that I need to be willing to share a public restroom with a man.

And you need to *like it*, or you're a total bigot ;)

[Sneezyone]

She is making a mockery with her dishonesty. It's like putting on a costume. She has not only chosen to self-identify as black but also take off that 'true' identity when convenient (at your wedding?). She has chosen to create a completely fictitious family and background to support her chosen identity and tried to force others to lie about themselves and their own identities. Unlike a transgendered individual, she has essentially tried to erase her entire history. Denying the ethnicity of your birthparents is not living in truth. Claiming some random guy in a photo is your father is not living in truth. That is living a lie. How can you argue truthfully and earnestly for this identity group you like so much when you cannot even be honest about yourself and your relationship to the group? Do you trust the group so little? This would be like Caitlyn Jenner claiming Kendall sprung from her very own loins and she'd never been married.

 

Self-identify however you want but BE HONEST.

[Tiberia]

I'm in Spokane, where this is happening. What is most disconcerting to me is that she has been the target of "hate crime" threats for the past year or so (threatening letters, pictures, etc.), and it is looking more and more like she may have fabricated some of these. That seems to be the greater issue here, but is not getting the news coverage around the country. The NAACP stands by her record of advocacy, and that's appropriate, I think, because she has been active and effective on many levels. But the deception may run deeper than we realize right now.

[Jean in Newcastle]

TV news interviews of her are strange, in my opinion.  She seems disjointed and not like the type of person I would expect a chair of an organization like the NAACP would be - someone who can still communicate while under fire.  I mean, how can you respond "I don't understand the question" when asked directly if you are African American?  It really isn't a hard question.  

[LucyStoner]

Also, this is horrible, but she has alleged that the parents abused her and the brother/son. I hate to say it, but evangelicals who adopt a lot of kids... I've just read too many stories where the abuse has turned out to be true of these families, who, for whatever reason, also tend to be followers of the Pearls. I think there's a lot of layers to this onion.

 

ETA: I hope that's all untrue though. I mean, obviously many people fit that profile who are great people too.

She was also homeschooled with CLE and her parents were missionaries so perhaps they were really conservative. And the abuse allegations culminated in her getting custody of her (much younger) adopted brother so there's probably some "there" there. I am wondering if this self delusion started as a way to royally piss off a set of parents she couldn't stand.

 

Being white doesn't bar her from being an NAACP leader but the lying is not ok and seems be part of a pathology.

 

I've known people from black families who were very pale (and vice versa) but this doesn't appear to be an instance of that at all. She's clearly taken specific steps to alter her appearance.

 

My husband grew up in a small town near Spokane and never had a black classmate until 6th grade. He says he doesn't recall seeing a black person except on TV until then. Spokane and the surrounding county has a *very* small number of black people. I went to school in the area for a year and a close friend who transfered there at the same time is black and she always said she'd never moved somewhere where she couldn't find black people before that. The downtown core was decimated at the time with empty buildings because of the collapse of the banking, manufacturing, natural resources and farm based commerce functions traditionally sited in Spokane. My friend compared it to Detroit but without any black people. I teased my husband today that we now know just how white Spokane really is- even their NAACP president is white.

[Mergath]

Race may be a social construct, but when you are given checkboxes and one of the boxes is "black / African-American," we all know that is a matter of biology.  True, you can identify as black if you have a lot of other colors mixed with black.  But I couldn't check "black" without knowing I'm lying.  Also, my dark-skinned daughters and many of my dark-skinned friends could not check "black" without knowing it is a lie.

 

I don't like a lot of things about the social construct that we call race.  Like, why is a person automatically "black" (or "biracial") if he has any amount of African blood and features?  Why does anyone care if a person with African and European blood wants to identify as white?  What about those twins who are biracial and one looks totally white while the other looks totally black?  Which box do they check?  http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/feat-black-white-twins/index.html http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=15247.0  But none of that applies to a person who doesn't have a drop of African blood.

 

None of us can know whether or not she has any African ancestry without giving her a DNA test.

[Rivka]

How is she making a mockery? She identifies as an African American. There was a time when "Transsexual" was not a thing either. Men who identified as being a woman (or vice versa) had a mental illness--psychological break. But now we have the federal govt saying that I need to be willing to share a public restroom with a man.

 

Now I feel silly for answering the "why is this different from Caitlyn Jenner" question as if it were asked out of genuine curiosity.

[unsinkable]

The minute I read this I could hear Steve Martin saying, " I was born a poor black child." From The Jerk.

I'm picking out a thermos for yoooooooooouuuuuu. Not an ordinary thermos for yoooooooouuuuu...

[creekland]

I really don't care how she identifies (racially) or how she wants to present her appearance.  I don't actually "see" a difference in races anymore than I "see" a difference in my black, pinto, buckskin, or chestnut ponies (or dogs/cats, etc).

 

But the lying?  There are issues there.  If not, can I claim Bill Gates is my father or that I'm from the Vanderbilt line?  In general, can I look around this planet and "pick" the heritage/experiences I "had" even though there's not a shred of truth to it except in my daydreams?   

 

To me, that's the mental illness part.  I know people IRL who fit that in similar ways (made up parts of their past to "impress" people in a way they want to).  They are definitely mentally ill IMO.

[El...]

Maybe I'm not very informed on modern beauty techniques, but when I saw her photos, my first thought was, "That looks like a lot of work!"  How would one maintain that degree of change consistently?  How would skin tone be even enough that folks around you wouldn't notice?  I mean, under your hair there would be much paler skin, right? 

 

Wouldn't your hairdresser know exactly what was going on? 

 

My dd is bi-racial and her skin, while middle-range, is consistent over her body.  She is darker where the sun reaches, but in general, she is consistent. 

 

What a strange story.

[gardenmom5]

TV news interviews of her are strange, in my opinion.  She seems disjointed and not like the type of person I would expect a chair of an organization like the NAACP would be - someone who can still communicate while under fire.  I mean, how can you respond "I don't understand the question" when asked directly if you are African American?  It really isn't a hard question.  

 

 

it depends what the definition of "African American" is.

does it mean do you identify as aa?

does it mean you have lived as an aa?

does it mean other people think you're aa?

does it mean you have an aa parent/grandparent? (no - her parents are both of white European ancestry.   if you have to do a DNA test to "prove" you have African ancestry - it's too far in the past to matter in this type of case.)

 

 

and you can bet your bloomers she won't admit she's white.  being honest is hard.  ;/

the pp who suggested this may have started as a way to irk her parents may be on to something.  I also think she's mentally off.  she gets more attention this way than if she were white and estranged from her parents.

[GailV]

 

My problem is not that she identifies with African-American culture. It's that she systematically presented herself as a person who should be paid special attention and given special credence because of her "race." She didn't just live a quiet, ordinary life somewhere as a black person. She spoke out about African-Americans as an insider expert. She called attention to the "hate crimes" she supposedly suffered. And her takeover of the spotlight lessened the opportunity for real African-American women's experiences to be heard.

 

Thank you for stating this so eloquently. 

 

Also, I had the impression from an article I read somewhere that her parents hadn't really "outed" her deliberately, but that someone directly asked them a few months ago and they admitted she was their daughter.

[gardenmom5]

Maybe I'm not very informed on modern beauty techniques, but when I saw her photos, my first thought was, "That looks like a lot of work!"  How would one maintain that degree of change consistently?  How would skin tone be even enough that folks around you wouldn't notice?  I mean, under your hair there would be much paler skin, right? 

 

Wouldn't your hairdresser know exactly what was going on? 

 

My dd is bi-racial and her skin, while middle-range, is consistent over her body.  She is darker where the sun reaches, but in general, she is consistent. 

 

What a strange story.

 

she'd be constantly having to touch-up her roots.  I can't imagine the damage to her hair from doing an uber tight spiral all the time - so the roots are spiraled too.

 

and either tanning (I have a cousin with Spanish/italian ancestry on her father's side who can get *very* dark with tanning - me? I freckle or go straight to lobster), diy or professional fake tan (the quality of them have improved over the years), bronzer on her face every day,

 

and the cost of upkeep!   and yes, the person doing the perm would know she doesn't have curly hair.  if she goes to a tanning salon or a spray on tan place, they'd know she was trying to make herself darker.

[Farrar]

I want to hear from her husband and the adopted brother she got custody of about what they think of all this. I mean, they must love and have some understanding of her. I don't know that anything they could say would change my take that she was deeply wrong if the facts are what they seem to be, but I'm curious to hear from them.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

My problem is not that she identifies with African-American culture. It's that she systematically presented herself as a person who should be paid special attention and given special credence because of her "race." She didn't just live a quiet, ordinary life somewhere as a black person. She spoke out about African-Americans as an insider expert. She called attention to the "hate crimes" she supposedly suffered. And her takeover of the spotlight lessened the opportunity for real African-American women's experiences to be heard.

 

this could suggest histrionic personality disorder.  she has gone to extensive effort - and expense - to change her appearance in order to garner attention and even sympathy  of others. (her claims of being a victim of hate crimes where no evidence was discovered i.e. the mail box to which only she and the post office had a key) .

and almost everything she does it aimed at getting attention for "being aa".

[Farrar]

BTW, this interview with one of the other adopted brothers strongly implies the opposite of what the WaPo piece implied about her scholarship to Howard. He says that she faced racism there as a minority white woman and didn't like it, which implies that she was clear to everyone around her that she was white. That implies that any scholarship money she got wasn't earmarked for black students. A lot of the pieces coming out now are saying that she began this charade some time in the last decade, after her time at Howard.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/rachel-dolezals-brother-says-she-warned-dont-blow-my-cover#.otlrq4qG0e

[SKL]

None of us can know whether or not she has any African ancestry without giving her a DNA test.

 

Her parents say she doesn't, and she is blonde and blue-eyed, so if by some odd circumstance she does have a tiny bit of African ancestry, how would she even know it?  She could have done a DNA test (23 and me supposedly provides this info), but then why doesn't she say she did that?

 

I could have African blood too (in fact I've wondered sometimes based on physical characteristics of myself and others).  But it is still dishonest for me to declare that I do, without any evidence.

[MinivanMom]

So, I was bored this morning and went poking around Howard's website. As far as I can tell, Howard has race-blind admissions and their current student body is 92% African-American. It appears that their standard scholarships for incoming freshman are reserved for first-generation college students. They are awarded on a first come-first served basis with academic cut-offs based on gpa and test scores. I'm having trouble finding any indication that scholarships are reserved only for African-American applicants. It sounds like maybe Dolezal had an art scholarship (based on the stories of her submitting a portfolio of art when she applied to Howard), so I think it's unlikely that she stole a scholarship meant only for black applicants.

 

If the accusations about faking hate crimes are true, then she has done something illegal. I don't think any of the rest of it is illegal . . . unethical, yes . . . but not illegal.

 

I think the accusations of abuse by her parents are interesting and may provide the missing puzzle piece. To a normal person, it seems like why can't you be a part of black culture and NAACP as a white person? Why lie? Why pretend? But if we're talking about someone who suffers from mental illness or a personality disorder to begin with . . . and then her white family abuses her . . . and they abuse the black children they adopted . . . then we have a situation where pretending to have a different background is more than just deception or a deep desire to connect with other black people. It may be a way to hurt the parents who abused her. It may be a fantasy to help her cope with the abuse. Those white people who hurt me aren't my real family; this other community that has loved me is my real family. She sounds like she may need some serious help.

[maize]

Her parents say she doesn't, and she is blonde and blue-eyed, so if by some odd circumstance she does have a tiny bit of African ancestry, how would she even know it?  She could have done a DNA test (23 and me supposedly provides this info), but then why doesn't she say she did that?

 

I could have African blood too (in fact I've wondered sometimes based on physical characteristics of myself and others).  But it is still dishonest for me to declare that I do, without any evidence.

 

23andMe says my DNA is approximately 2% West African.

 

That would indicate an ancestor maybe 5 or 6 generations back.

 

Interesting to know, but I don't think it would qualify me as AA.

[Farrar]

Does anyone else keep returning to the opening scene from The Jerk in their minds?

[maize]

 

I think the accusations of abuse by her parents are interesting and may provide the missing puzzle piece. To a normal person, it seems like why can't you be a part of black culture and NAACP as a white person? Why lie? Why pretend? But if we're talking about someone who suffers from mental illness or a personality disorder to begin with . . . and then her white family abuses her . . . and they abuse the black children they adopted . . . then we have a situation where pretending to have a different background is more than just deception or a deep desire to connect with other black people. It may be a way to hurt the parents who abused her. It may be a fantasy to help her cope with the abuse. Those white people who hurt me aren't my real family; this other community that has loved me is my real family. She sounds like she may need some serious help.

 

We can speculate, but given how much she has apparently made up I don't think we can just accept her accounts of abuse at face value. Boy who cried wolf and all that...

[MinivanMom]

BTW, this interview with one of the other adopted brothers strongly implies the opposite of what the WaPo piece implied about her scholarship to Howard. He says that she faced racism there as a minority white woman and didn't like it, which implies that she was clear to everyone around her that she was white. That implies that any scholarship money she got wasn't earmarked for black students. A lot of the pieces coming out now are saying that she began this charade some time in the last decade, after her time at Howard.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/rachel-dolezals-brother-says-she-warned-dont-blow-my-cover#.otlrq4qG0e

 

Interesting that she felt she was mistreated at Howard.

[SKL]

I haven't read about the abuse allegations, but I have to wonder if she is that big of a storyteller, or is that confused about reality, whether the abuse was also a fantasy.  So I would be reluctant to believe her issues were caused/aggravated by abuse.  (Though, when I was growing up, telling a lot of whoppers could get you a whipping.)

[Farrar]

We can speculate, but given how much she has apparently made up I don't think we can just accept her accounts of abuse at face value. Boy who cried wolf and all that...

 

I agree that it's very unclear, but the profile of the family is sadly familiar to us, I think. And even the kids who aren't estranged from them say they used "corporal punishment." I would not be surprised if this allegation turned out to be true. The fact that she got custody of her brother says a lot, I think.

[gardenmom5]

there is a quote attributed to her "I don't like the term African-American - I prefer black and yes, I consider myself black."

 

 

We can speculate, but given how much she has apparently made up I don't think we can just accept her accounts of abuse at face value. Boy who cried wolf and all that...

 

this - absolutely!  she has made up claims of being the victim of multiple hate crimes - but no evidence was ever found in any of them.  the more that comes out, the more it appears she just really wants to get attention.

[Farrar]

Interesting that she felt she was mistreated at Howard.

 

Yes. Though... it's the account of the brother who is speaking against her. She has quotes out there saying she loved her time at Howard and loved the diversity of living on the east coast. Who knows what the truth is.

 

I attended an historically black college for a short time. It's definitely an interesting experience to be the minority when you're used to be the majority. I appreciated having that experience though. And I certainly didn't feel discriminated against while I was there.

[Murphy101]

I don't know that I agree that gender and race/ethnicity have such core identity disparity as some are claiming here.

 

I don't approve of her lies by any stretch, but it's not like Jenner was a saint either.

 

Both are putting on costume of who they want to be, not who they actually are, is Jenner making a mockery of women?

 

Is it a costume if they feel like it is more real than their natural biological state? (I think it is, but obviously many don't.)

 

Yes, concepts of what makes a race or ethnicity does change over time, but so does gender. Women wear pants now, men change diapers, and so forth. And really it hasn't been as black and white as many people think throughout history either. And what was acceptable of a gender most certainly varies in different race/ethnicities/cultures in history.

 

In some circumstances one might be able to argue it is easier for me to participate and blend into a culture of men than a different ethnicity. Still hard and likely to feel excluded, but same principle situation.

[SKL]

I agree that it's very unclear, but the profile of the family is sadly familiar to us, I think. And even the kids who aren't estranged from them say they used "corporal punishment." I would not be surprised if this allegation turned out to be true. The fact that she got custody of her brother says a lot, I think.

 

Most Americans have used corporal punishment, so I don't think that proves anything.

 

Considering how successfully she faked her heritage, I would not be surprised if she could also tell a convincing abuse story to investigators.  Maybe even fake some "evidence."

 

Then again, it could be true.  I just think she has zero credibility on anything at this point.

 

[maize]

Regarding the brother she claims custody of, is there more information somewhere? I read that she got custody in 2010, when he would have been 16 (he is 21 now). At that age kids can have quite a bit of leeway themselves in choosing who to live with, I'd be interested to know whether this is a matter of parental rights having been terminated (which would support abuse allegations) or more a matter of the kid himself just choosing to live with his sister. Didn't something like that happen to a board member a few years back, an adopted teenage boy chose to move back in with his birth family? 

[Murphy101]

23andMe says my DNA is approximately 2% West African.

 

That would indicate an ancestor maybe 5 or 6 generations back.

 

Interesting to know, but I don't think it would qualify me as AA.

That is interesting to me, bc depending on which Native American tribe one uses, it very well might qualify you to check Native American and most NA's wouldn't get angry about it. It's more likely to come down to record keeping than blood tests. And that's probably for the best, bc if they got too picky about blood tests, their tribe would be even further population decimated.

 

ETA: I will add a proviso. I'm sure there are some NA who would get angry about it, bc there is always someone who will get angry about something. But mostly, as long as it is true, they don't. Some will push hard for more tribal involvement and identity, which I think is understandable.