Would you expect an airlines to compensate you for this?

[Annie G]

I wasn't sure if I could name the airlines here, but I will.  It was Frontier.

 

Crap. I've never flown Frontier before but I'm taking a trip with my sisters next month and we tried to coordinate flights back home at about the same time so none of us are stuck at the airport a long time waiting for our flight.  I ended up with a Frontier flight.   At least it's for the flight home, when I'm not under any time crunch to arrive somewhere. 

Thanks for the heads up about their service. 

[Robin M]

Under the circumstances, once the flight took off, the steward should have made an announcement asking folks if they would move so you all could sit together.  I would have pressed the issue, if they wouldn't.  I have always found southwest employees to be very accommodating and the majority of flyers generally have no problem whatsoever changing seats.   We were once very late for our flight, practically the last to board and my son has aspergers so we have to sit together.  The stewardess asked if anyone was willing to change seats and several people volunteered. 

 

If you asked the stewards to handle the issue after the flight took off and they refused to do anything about it, then yes, you should press the issue and be compensated with at least a voucher for a free flight.   If you didn't t press the issue because you didn't want to split up the elderly couple, or ask the two girls seated with your daughter to move, then you should forget it.  

 

[Stacia]

I would pursue it, especially from the aspect of your dh with a disability. Though what they did may not be against ADA guidelines, it seems pretty crappy on their part to separate your dh from his caregiver when you paid ahead of time to sit next to him in order to care for him. (And, I agree w/ a previous poster that said, in your case, you should not have had to pay extra for that service.) I would contact not only the CEO, but also copy the local media, support organizations for those with disabilities, etc....

 

ETA: If you don't get satisfaction from the airline, you can also file a claim with the Better Business Bureau.

[Lanny]

This comes, gently, from someone who worked for 2 U.S. flag airlines and who spent some years of his life with a woman who was a Flight Attendant for one of those airlines.   I assume that you made your reservations directly on the web site of the airline involved, or, on the web site of an OTA (Online Travel Agency) such as Expedia, Travelocity, etc.    I also assume that by doing that, there was no opportunity to make the special needs of your DH and family known to the airline, in advance of your trip.  If that is the case,  what you should have done, once you had the PNR (Passenger Name Record or Record Locator) available, was call the Reservation Dept. of the airline, asked the agent to bring up your record in the system and ADD to your record that your DH is handicapped and that your family would need to sit together at all times, so you could help him. And, if he has other special requirements, they could have put that information into their system.

 

If you printed out your Boarding Passes, immediately, once the airline made that possible (on our domestic flights in Colombia the airline we fly on permits that within 48 hours of departure and I do it, ASAP...) then you have a bit more standing here.

 

It sounds like there may have been a glitch in the system when you were at the Boarding 
Gate and the flight was in Departure Processing.  At that point, the Reservations department has nothing to do with the flight and it is up to the Agent(s) at the gate to get the people onto the aircraft as best they can.  If you were aware of this problem at that point, you should have requested to speak with the Supervisor on duty, BEFORE boarding the aircraft.

 

All this happens very quickly and is stressful for the passengers, the agents at the boarding gate and the flight attendants.

 

Once you are aboard the aircraft, the idea is to get everyone into a seat, ASAP, to have all of the carry on luggage stowed properly and the overhead bins securely fastened and the seats in an upright position. There is very little patience on the part of the cabin crew at that point, for people who have a problem with their seat assignments. Had you made a big deal about this before Pushback (when the tug begins pushing the aircraft away from the gate) you may have been removed from the aircraft.

 

PRE BOARDING is what your family should have requested, in your reservation record and when you arrived at the Departure Gate..   I haven't flown in the USA recently, but here, Pregnant women, families with young children and others, would be allowed to board the aircraft as soon as it is clean and the flight attendants are ready to receive the passengers.

 

I believe the $ you were offered, a refund of what you paid for your seat assignments that were not honored, is probably the best you are going to get from the carrier involved. I am sorry that your family experienced this and I hope it will not happen to you again.

[Wildcat]

OP, I agree that you need to pursue this as it affected your entire flight. What happened is inexcusable. It's not just a matter of not getting the seats you paid for, but your disabled dh was left alone and your family was spread out.

 

Christopher Elliott is a consumer advocate who has news columns, a radio show, etc. Here is his page: http://elliott.org/. I hear him go off on airlines all the time. He often contacts the companies and gets results for people, but I'm not sure how he chooses his 'cases' and shares the outcomes on his show & in his columns.  I would contact him and tell him your story~there is a link on the front page for you to tell your story, or you can contact him directly. You might find he'll advocate for you.

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

Frontier is not known for being customer friendly. It is talked about on a disabilities forum I read about how they skirt a fine line with compliance.

[Arcadia]

Was your husband in a wheelchair? My mom is in a wheelchair if she needs to take a flight. The airlines would ask whoever is accompanying to board together with her before the business class passengers. Someone needs to help my mom to her seat. My MIL who has trouble walking long distance only gets preferential treatment if she request a wheelchair. However MIL doesn't need help on the plane but my mom does.

I'll kick a fuss if I am free to do so but more likely on yelp and others than through the red tape.

[CAMom]

In the past month, I've been on 4 SW flights too............... on each of them, they preboarded first people with disabilities (and companions) , second the A group, third families with children aged 4 & under, then B group, and then C group. I fly SW quite often, and this is how I've always seen it.

This is my experience as well and I fly Southwest a lot. I fly frequently up and down the west coast but I have also gone cross country and to the Midwest.

 

When I fly with my 9 year old, we pre-board so I can wipe everything down since he has a peanut allergy.

 

I'd be really peeved if I were the original poster. I'd probably push it further.

[Ali in OR]

We have a daughter in a wheelchair. We always gate-check her chair (wheel her all the way down the jetway) and my dh carries her on. If you have a disabled person in your party, it's up to you to get to the gate early, identify yourself to the agents, get a gate-check tag if you need one for a wheelchair, and board early. We have always been boarded before the regular travelers (perhaps first class and business class go before us--can't remember). It's only dh and dd who get to board early--I follow later with the other two girls. And we were guilty of trying to save seats the one time we flew an airline that didn't have assigned seats. We knew it was quite possible dh might not be able to save for us and the girls and I could have sat elsewhere. But I appreciate the kindness of fellow travelers who graciously accommodated us. Air travel is difficult and stressful for us and takes a lot of energy.

 

I would definitely write and complain, but I don't think you did everything you could up front to ensure your needs would be met. And I would have put my dh in the seat originally assigned to our party and explained to the people in the other two seats that you were supposed to be seated there (show your tickets) and that you would be coming by frequently to help him. They would probably have offered to move.

[meena]

I would expect a refund of your seat preselect fees, an apology, and an acknowledgement of how they plan to improve these types of issues for future disabled passengers. Anything beyond that would be great customer service. I doubt you will get further monetary compensation, but you might be able to get credit toward future flights.

 

I hate to say it, but flying on what is considered in the airline industry to be an ultra-low-cost carrier such as Frontier you oftentimes get what you pay for. One of the ways they keep flight costs low is by having quick turns where they are trying to get passengers on and off as quickly as possible. There is a lot of pressure on the crews and gate agents to meet time constraints. That doesn't make what they did excusable, though.

[creekland]

Frontier is not known for being customer friendly. It is talked about on a disabilities forum I read about how they skirt a fine line with compliance.

 

This, to me, would be both another reason to pursue it (nothing will ever change if people don't) AND a reason to avoid the airline altogether.  Bad service that is not an anomaly doesn't get my business no matter how cheap the cost.

 

I wonder about contacting an ADA contact person and asking their recommendation.

[KungFuPanda]

This happened to my sister just yesterday on a US Air flight out of Seattle. Why is seating suddenly a logistical impossibility??? They can keep planes from colliding, but reserving seats is somehow complicated???

 

This may be a GoToThe Media situation. Airlines should be embarrassed by this lack of professionalism. The fact that the flights cost less shouldn't mean anything when it comes to orderly seating policies. It's not cold fusion. Copy the policy of competent airlines.

 

Also, you sometimes have to be uncomfortably aggressive to advocate for your family. Arrive early, pre-board, and sit down in that 'saved' seat and don't move. It may be uncomfortable, but if they're making it survival of the fittest you've got to be fit.

[Annie G]

This happened to my sister just yesterday on a US Air flight out of Seattle. Why is seating suddenly a logistical impossibility??? They can keep planes from colliding, but reserving seats is somehow complicated???

 

This may be a GoToThe Media situation. Airlines should be embarrassed by this lack of professionalism. The fact that the flights cost less shouldn't mean anything when it comes to orderly seating policies. It's not cold fusion. Copy the policy of competent airlines.

 

Also, you sometimes have to be uncomfortably aggressive to advocate for your family. Arrive early, pre-board, and sit down in that 'saved' seat and don't move. It may be uncomfortable, but if they're making it survival of the fittest you've got to be fit.

 

 

:iagree:

 

It seems that assigned seating would make boarding FASTER than open seating where people are having to ask other passengers whether the seat is open or asking people to move because a family wants to sit together.   I also thought they assigned seating so if there was an issue they knew who was sitting where, and stuff like that.  I just don't understand open seating.

[mamaraby]

I would pursue it. I wouldn't be going through the general customer service route at this point, however. Head on over to Consumerist's website (www.consumerist.com) and follow the guidelines/suggestions they have there for an Executive email Carpet Bomb - http://consumerist.com/2007/05/11/how-to-launch-an-executive-email-carpet-bomb/. The key is going to be writing a good letter.

 

You can try contacting Consumerist as well. Sometimes they get involved and can get results. I'd start with the EECB first.

[J-rap]

Hmmm.... I am siding with the airlines. You needed to make a fuss with the steward on board....

 

I flew very regularly with my wheelchair bound dd. I always had a notation made on our reservation and we always had a steward meet us at the gate so that we preboarded well before all of the other preboards. Often we had two or three people helping us on. Of all of our flights, we had a glitch twice and it was all resolved by early pre-checking conversations.

 

There is a protocol to traveling with lesser abled passengers. I think this is a hard way to learn it, and I am sorry. The airline should want to do more, but they aren't obligated to do so.

 

I know I could have made more of a fuss once on board.  But, they did tell me to be seated and then they'd help me, and I wanted to give them a chance to do that.  Then the plane took off.  It's difficult for me to be pushy sometimes.     It would never have occurred to me to make any other special arrangements than what I did.  I'm still getting used to traveling with a disabled husband.  I thought all was good to go until we were actually standing in line boarding the plane, handing our boarding passes with the original seat assignments on them to the stewardess.  She took them, said there was a problem, ripped them up, and gave me new ones in about 30 seconds.

 

Live and learn I guess.

[J-rap]

I would not expect compensation. I would have pursued the issue with the steward. I wonder that the girls were younger than they looked, and were traveling as unaccompanied minors.

 

No, they were in college.  They chatted a bit with our daughter.

 

[creekland]

I know I could have made more of a fuss once on board.  But, they did tell me to be seated and then they'd help me, and I wanted to give them a chance to do that.  Then the plane took off.  It's difficult for me to be pushy sometimes.     It would never have occurred to me to make any other special arrangements than what I did.  I'm still getting used to traveling with a disabled husband.  I thought all was good to go until we were actually standing in line boarding the plane, handing our boarding passes with the original seat assignments on them to the stewardess.  She took them, said there was a problem, ripped them up, and gave me new ones in about 30 seconds.

 

Live and learn I guess.

 

All more facts to add in your official e-mails and/or letters.

 

This is NOT in any way, shape, or fashion, your fault.  It is theirs and they should make it up to you AND change their policy for the future IMO.

 

There's no way I'd be letting them get away with it without the incident becoming public knowledge in as wide a circle as I could get.

[catz]

I know I could have made more of a fuss once on board.  But, they did tell me to be seated and then they'd help me, and I wanted to give them a chance to do that.  Then the plane took off.  It's difficult for me to be pushy sometimes.     It would never have occurred to me to make any other special arrangements than what I did.  I'm still getting used to traveling with a disabled husband.  I thought all was good to go until we were actually standing in line boarding the plane, handing our boarding passes with the original seat assignments on them to the stewardess.  She took them, said there was a problem, ripped them up, and gave me new ones in about 30 seconds.

 

Live and learn I guess.

 

I strongly disagree that you should need to know a secret handshake to get decent customer service in a case like this.  Not everyone flies 6 times a year and knows the ins and outs of travelling with someone who is disabled.  Like I said, I would not have high expectations for further compensation.  I would however have no problem escalating it further through social media and writing corporate.

[Amira]

Paid reserved seating is complicated though because it cuts down on an airline's flexibility.  There are lots of good reasons why people who need to be seated next to each other have to book flights late, or at least too late to reserve seating together.  If a lot of the seats were reserved by passengers paying extra, it makes it really difficult to seat families together.  Sometimes passengers just aren't experienced fliers either and don't realize they have to get seats sorted out early (or the in the case of the OP, that she should have called the airline to let them know of the disability and arrived early so they could board early).  

 

I wouldn't want to be a flight attendant dealing with all of this.  There are plenty of passengers willing to pay a little extra to reserve a seat at the front of the plane, but then you get a person traveling with two small children who must sit next to them and there is no available seating together and no one wants to trade because they paid extra for their better seat. A disabled passenger arrives who needs accommodation that the airline didn't know about.  I don't see how flight attendants can win, especially when they're the ones dealing with the actual problems because they can't pass it on to someone else like everyone else at the airline can.  Sometimes I think it's flight attendants who should be the main ones protesting all of these problems because they're the ones who get stuck with the fallout on every single flight.

 

I haven't flown on Southwest in a long time, but the seat saving stories are bugging me.  Sure, you can sit in a saved seat and that's totally legitimate because you paid to board earlier, but then you're stuck sitting next to the person you annoyed.  That doesn't make for a fun flight.  I also know that you're not supposed to sit down on any airline till your seats are sorted out to your satisfaction, but that's awfully hard to do sometimes.

[J-rap]

I would write to the CEO of the airline. It's not so much the monetary compensation but the way it was handled and the resulting inconvenience. They need to know how it was handled so they can improve their processes. When you write, be very specific about what flight you were on and when.

 

One time an airline switched my 7yo daughter to a completely different flight (different from the one she was booked on with the rest of the family) about an hour before we were set to board. It got sorted out before the flight but it was a stressful time at a busy airport and the airline was not exactly helpful. Afterward I wrote to the CEO and they sent me a $100 voucher for each person in my party (for future flights).

 

Good advice.  Thanks.  Absurd about your daughter, but glad it all worked out!

[J-rap]

I would pursue it, but not for reimbursement. I would send an email, including a picture of my family, explaining what happened. Make it very clear that your dh has a disability, and rather than troubling the staff, you chose to pay extra for the seat assignments. Let them know that your dh was embarrassed that you had to traverse other passengers to assist him. Ask the rep for a recommendation of better dealing with this. Explain that you know that flight times are very important to everyone, but disabilities should be treated respectfully, as well.

 

If you make it about education, you will probably be happy with their response. I think they treated you terribly, but I think you will have better results with an educating email, rather than a monetary one.

 

Thanks.  Good advice. 

 

(Sorry about all of my separate replies everyone!  Sometimes the multi-quote function works for me, and sometimes it doesn't -- I must be doing something wrong...)

 

[J-rap]

This comes, gently, from someone who worked for 2 U.S. flag airlines and who spent some years of his life with a woman who was a Flight Attendant for one of those airlines.   I assume that you made your reservations directly on the web site of the airline involved, or, on the web site of an OTA (Online Travel Agency) such as Expedia, Travelocity, etc.    I also assume that by doing that, there was no opportunity to make the special needs of your DH and family known to the airline, in advance of your trip.  If that is the case,  what you should have done, once you had the PNR (Passenger Name Record or Record Locator) available, was call the Reservation Dept. of the airline, asked the agent to bring up your record in the system and ADD to your record that your DH is handicapped and that your family would need to sit together at all times, so you could help him. And, if he has other special requirements, they could have put that information into their system.

 

If you printed out your Boarding Passes, immediately, once the airline made that possible (on our domestic flights in Colombia the airline we fly on permits that within 48 hours of departure and I do it, ASAP...) then you have a bit more standing here.

 

It sounds like there may have been a glitch in the system when you were at the Boarding 

Gate and the flight was in Departure Processing.  At that point, the Reservations department has nothing to do with the flight and it is up to the Agent(s) at the gate to get the people onto the aircraft as best they can.  If you were aware of this problem at that point, you should have requested to speak with the Supervisor on duty, BEFORE boarding the aircraft.

 

All this happens very quickly and is stressful for the passengers, the agents at the boarding gate and the flight attendants.

 

Once you are aboard the aircraft, the idea is to get everyone into a seat, ASAP, to have all of the carry on luggage stowed properly and the overhead bins securely fastened and the seats in an upright position. There is very little patience on the part of the cabin crew at that point, for people who have a problem with their seat assignments. Had you made a big deal about this before Pushback (when the tug begins pushing the aircraft away from the gate) you may have been removed from the aircraft.

 

PRE BOARDING is what your family should have requested, in your reservation record and when you arrived at the Departure Gate..   I haven't flown in the USA recently, but here, Pregnant women, families with young children and others, would be allowed to board the aircraft as soon as it is clean and the flight attendants are ready to receive the passengers.

 

I believe the $ you were offered, a refund of what you paid for your seat assignments that were not honored, is probably the best you are going to get from the carrier involved. I am sorry that your family experienced this and I hope it will not happen to you again.

 

Thanks for the insight.  This is what the airlines told me too, that I should have called the airlines ahead of time and requested that our seats not be separated.  That never would have occurred to me though.  I had thought that paying extra to get seats together was guaranteeing that.  I did have the boarding passes ahead of time, with the original seat assignments on them.   And you're right, it happened right at the boarding gate and all happened very quickly. 

 

[J-rap]

 

Also, you sometimes have to be uncomfortably aggressive to advocate for your family. Arrive early, pre-board, and sit down in that 'saved' seat and don't move. It may be uncomfortable, but if they're making it survival of the fittest you've got to be fit.

 

I'm slowly learning how to be more "uncomfortably aggressive."  It's not my nature.  My husband was always the pushy one!

[Catwoman]

Thanks. Good advice.

 

(Sorry about all of my separate replies everyone! Sometimes the multi-quote function works for me, and sometimes it doesn't -- I must be doing something wrong...)

 

It's not just you -- it hasn't been working for me, either.

[Erica in OR]

I'd pursue it for the principle of the thing, so that in the future those with disabilities may not get treated as poorly. I'd at least get it out there, so that those who choose the airline know that it might be an issue.

 

That aside, if the airline has such poor service, I can't say trying to get a voucher or free ticket out of them so I could be subjected to their service again would be my main goal. :)

 

Erica in OR

[Guest]

:iagree:

 

It seems that assigned seating would make boarding FASTER than open seating where people are having to ask other passengers whether the seat is open or asking people to move because a family wants to sit together. I also thought they assigned seating so if there was an issue they knew who was sitting where, and stuff like that. I just don't understand open seating.

There was a Mythbusters episode about airplane seating. If memory serves, they found that assigned seats was the slowest way to board. I think.

[Annie G]

There was a Mythbusters episode about airplane seating. If memory serves, they found that assigned seats was the slowest way to board. I think.

 

I looked that episode up- interesting info!  So even though the no seat assignment method was faster by one minute, it had a NEGATIVE satisfaction score.  The other methods mostly added a minute or two to the boarding time but the satisfaction rate was much, much higher.   I wouldn't want to be a flight attendant that started with a negative satisfaction rating before the flight even pulled away from the terminal.    I think it's short sighted for airlines to save that minute at the expense of customer satisfaction.  Some things are worth the effort, and customer service is a big deal in the service industry.  Or it should be, anyway. 

[KungFuPanda]

I'm slowly learning how to be more "uncomfortably aggressive." It's not my nature. My husband was always the pushy one!

I understand completely. IRL I have always been polite and diplomatic. However, as my son becomes increasingly disabled I am forced to be more aggressive. I can't lift him. His power chair won't levitate. I HAVE to confront the passenger in the idling car blocking the grocery store door. It's horrible that people don't think and would rather ignore you than try to fix the situation. From this thread I've learned to NOT sit down in a seat I'm not prepared to stay in for the duration of the flight. If they can move the plane they have no incentive to help you.

[Lanny]

I know I could have made more of a fuss once on board.  But, they did tell me to be seated and then they'd help me, and I wanted to give them a chance to do that.  Then the plane took off.  It's difficult for me to be pushy sometimes.     It would never have occurred to me to make any other special arrangements than what I did.  I'm still getting used to traveling with a disabled husband.  I thought all was good to go until we were actually standing in line boarding the plane, handing our boarding passes with the original seat assignments on them to the stewardess.  She took them, said there was a problem, ripped them up, and gave me new ones in about 30 seconds.

 

Live and learn I guess.

 

 

OP: I always print two (2) copies of our Boarding Passes . One, I hand  to the Gate Agent at the Boarding Gate, as we are preparing to go to the aircraft. The other, I have in my Carry On, in case there is an issue. I suggest you do the same in the future.

 

Stewardesses went out long ago. Look up the definitions of Steward and Hostess and you will see why the airlines who called them stewardesses changed their title.

 

If, in the future, you make the airline aware of your special needs, when or immediately after you make your reservations, and, again, at the Departure Gate, they will have a much better chance of treating you properly. The way you want to be treated. Last minute surprises don't work out well with airline passengers who have special needs.

 

Making a fuss once on board could easily have resulted in your family being told to leave the aircraft. 

 

When the Gate Agent told you there was a problem, and tore up your Boarding Passes, you should have asked, immediately, to speak with the Supervisor on Duty.

[Word Nerd]

Making a fuss once on board could easily have resulted in your family being told to leave the aircraft. 

 

That was my first thought when a PP suggested it. What that means is open to interpretation, but if the steward or another airline rep decides your "fuss" on board is over the line—even if their reasoning isn't valid—you could end up with a more serious problem on your hands than not being seated together. I would have reminded the steward about what I had been told about handling the problem later and asked again to be seated together, but if that didn't get the problem resolved I would have dropped it and made a complaint afterward.

[Lanny]

When you are in a Civil Turbojet aircraft you must comply with the orders of the crew members. That is covered by F.A.A. regulations in the USA, by the Aeronautica Civil here in Colombia,. and by the laws of all civilized countries.

 

If a flight attendant tells you to sit down, you must obey them, immediately.

 

Issues like the OP and her family experienced, and others,  must be resolved before boarding the aircraft.

 

I'm sure the flight was not enjoyable for the OP and her family and especially not for her DH and hopefully with advance notification to the airline, there will never be a repeat of this when they fly in the future.

 

[Little Nyssa]

I would keep calling and asking for compensation. If someone refuses, just ask for a supervisor. I'll tell you how I did this, getting compensation from Travelodge one time-- long story-- I called and wrote multiple times and got nowhere. Then I was talking with a lady on the phone and she said with finality "you aren't getting your money back from this office." I was mad and I answered sarcastically "then what office AM I going to get my money back from???" And she said "Oh! Call this number." I called and they had a whole file on my case and refunded the money right away. So this leads me to believe there is always another level if you keep asking. Or else, I somehow I hit on the magic words--? :)

[Lanny]

That was my first thought when a PP suggested it. What that means is open to interpretation, but if the steward or another airline rep decides your "fuss" on board is over the line—even if the reason isn't valid—you could end up with a more serious problem on your hands than not being seated together. I would have reminded the steward about what I had been told about handling the problem later and asked again to be seated together, but if that didn't get the problem resolved I would have dropped it and made a complaint afterward.

 

If passengers become unruly, the best thing the Flight Attendants can do is to order them off the aircraft. If the passenger complies and cools off, hopefully the airline will accommodate them on a later flight.

 

Interference with crew members is a crime in the USA and most countries.

 

If the passenger is obnoxious or physical, then calling the Police is the safest solution for the airline.

 

Problems need to be resolved inside the airport, not inside the aircraft.

[meena]

I looked that episode up- interesting info! So even though the no seat assignment method was faster by one minute, it had a NEGATIVE satisfaction score. The other methods mostly added a minute or two to the boarding time but the satisfaction rate was much, much higher. I wouldn't want to be a flight attendant that started with a negative satisfaction rating before the flight even pulled away from the terminal. I think it's short sighted for airlines to save that minute at the expense of customer satisfaction. Some things are worth the effort, and customer service is a big deal in the service industry. Or it should be, anyway.

Unfortunately, airlines, like other businesses, often prioritize profitability over customer service. Ultra-low-cost carriers especially ride a fine line, providing low enough fares to make most passengers overlook service issues and still come back for more. Google ultra low cost carrier satisfaction and you will find plenty of articles that showing increased profitability for ULCCs despite their dismal customer satisfaction ratings. As long as their stock prices stay high and they are filling planes, customer service will take a backseat.

[meena]

If passengers become unruly, the best thing the Flight Attendants can do is to order them off the aircraft. If the passenger complies and cools off, hopefully the airline will accommodate them on a later flight.

 

Interference with crew members is a crime in the USA and most countries.

 

If the passenger is obnoxious or physical, then calling the Police is the safest solution for the airline.

 

Problems need to be resolved inside the airport, not inside the aircraft.

There is a big difference between firmly but politely stating your case regarding a seat change to a FA vs. being unruly enough to get kicked off a flight.

 

Editing to add: I should have added emphasis to polite. Flight crews (and gate agents too) hear so much negativity that a firm but humble and polite appeal works much better. From my observations the more aggressive you get, typically the less receptive the employee will be.

[Word Nerd]

There is a big difference between firmly but politely stating your case regarding a seat change to a FA vs. being unruly enough to get kicked off a flight.

 

Editing to add: I should have added emphasis to polite. Flight crews (and gate agents too) hear so much negativity that a firm but humble and polite appeal works much better. From my observations the more aggressive you get, typically the less receptive the employee will be.

 

The point is that it's the flight attendant's call as to where to draw that line—not the passenger's. You might be surprised at some of the reasons people have been booted off planes.

[Katy]

If you want more than the reservation fee, put your experience on every single social media site you can find, starting with facebook, and make it public and name the airline and specifically say "NEVER FLY  _____ AIRLINE IF YOU HAVE A DISABLED FAMILY MEMBER."  Then go on and on about discrimination and ask your friends to share.  It will go viral and in less than 48 hours someone from the airline's PR department will contact you and do whatever is in their power for you to take the statement down.

 

 

No company cares about anything more than bad PR.  Bad customer service? Who cares.  Bad PR scares the living daylights out of them.

[meena]

The point is that it's the flight attendant's call as to where to draw that line—not the passenger's. You might be surprised at some of the reasons people have been booted off planes.

Without specific details, let's just say I'm very familiar with the airline industry... I probably wouldn't be surprised. I think it is highly unlikely for a FA to eject someone if that person is not hostile or escalating toward hostile. On the other side, the passenger making the request, such as the OP in this case, needs to pay attention to how the request is being received. Maybe the flight crew is having the worst day ever and is at a zero tolerance level. The passenger needs to know when to be firm and alternately when to accept a "no" and move on.

[meena]

I would never make a fuss with the steward these days. How many planes have been turned around bc of "unruly" passengers?

 

I think the airline has you over a barrel. Take your money back and run.

In 2012-2013 in the U.S. there were around 643,000,000 total passengers and roughly 17,000 ejections.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204778604577239411606291588

 

http://www.transtats.bts.gov

 

I think a lot of people perceive there to be more incidences because the media loves to publicize drama. You don't hear about the millions of flights that depart and arrive without a problem.

[StephanieZ]

Here is our situation.  Several months earlier, I bought air tickets for an air flight that didn't allow seat reservations unless you paid extra ahead of time.  Which I did.  It was three of us -- my husband, daughter, and I.  I booked the flight early and made sure to pay for and reserve our seats together because my husband is handicapped and needs our help.  His disability is very obvious. 

 

When we checked in, our seats were together, but as we were actually boarding the plane, the woman told us our seats had to be changed last minute due to some kink in the system.  (?  Whatever that means.)  I explained that we needed to be together, that I had paid for this, and that clearly my husband would need our help.  Well, the plane was already late and this woman was obviously not wanting to take the time to deal with it.  She told us to just please board the plane and the stewards would fix it.

 

After getting on the plane, I explained the situation to the steward, and he asked that we sit down in our new assigned seats, assuring us that once everyone was seated, he would changes things around so we could be together.

 

That didn't happen.  Within minutes after everyone was seated, the plane was moving.  (Again, it was late, everyone was hurrying, they were trying to move fast with everything.)

 

It was a long, overnight flight, and I had to get up several times to help my husband (the three of us were scattered throughout the plane).  I felt badly that my husband didn't have the help that would have made his flight more comfortable.  My daughter was actually in the original assigned seat, and the two people who took our seats were two college-aged girls who hadn't even had a seat reservation.  (They were just assigned them at the gate.)

 

I wrote the airlines, and told them I expected some kind of a flight reimbursement.  In all honesty, I would never have flown on that airlines unless I knew we could sit together. 

 

The airlines got back to me and said they would refund our seat reservation fee.  ($10 each.)  Well, that wasn't exactly what I had in mind!  I emailed them back and told them I expected more compensation than that, explained the situation again, etc.  They were adamant that they had done nothing against regulations, and that we should have personally called the airlines ahead of time and told them that our seats couldn't be separated.

 

That just seems so dumb!  I feel mad about this, and would like to fight it (talk to a superior?).  But maybe I'd just be wasting my time. 

 

What awful service. I certainly think they owe you much, much more than the seat reservation fees.

 

Goes to show that being nice and letting them shuffle you on board got you totally screwed. And they wonder why people don't just go along with the flow. They totally abused your niceness.

 

Next time, refuse to be seated until/unless you have acceptable seats. Tell them you can't be seated unless you are all together, and that you can get off the plane and be reticketed on different flights if that's what it takes, but that you must have your seats together, as you paid for. Be calm, be firm. It works most of the time. In that case, I'd imagine that they'd have moved someone ELSE in order to get you in seats, as that was obviously all they cared about.

 

If you're so inclined, make a big stink about it, complaining . . . I think they owe you complete refunds on your tickets or at least vouchers for 3 first class tickets on your next trip. Jerks. Makes me mad for you. 

[creekland]

I looked that episode up- interesting info!  So even though the no seat assignment method was faster by one minute, it had a NEGATIVE satisfaction score.  The other methods mostly added a minute or two to the boarding time but the satisfaction rate was much, much higher.   I wouldn't want to be a flight attendant that started with a negative satisfaction rating before the flight even pulled away from the terminal.    I think it's short sighted for airlines to save that minute at the expense of customer satisfaction.  Some things are worth the effort, and customer service is a big deal in the service industry.  Or it should be, anyway. 

 

I'm not sure everyone is upset with no seat assignment.  I know I like it better and choose it over other airlines if the cost is similar.  In general I like Southwest better than other airlines.  There have certainly been enough times I've had seats pre-selected on other airlines, then not gotten those seats anyway for one reason or another - and of course - paying extra to change a seat if one doesn't like the one auto-assigned.

 

I suspect it's pretty self-selecting.  Those who like open assignments choose it and those who don't choose other airlines.  My mom just had her first Southwest flight ever a couple of weeks ago and told us she really liked it too.  To each our own.

[Barb_]

We showed up for a flight with our two cats in one carrier, per us air policy listed on their website: http://www.usairways.com/en-US/traveltools/specialneeds/pets.html?re=1They would not allow us to keep them in the same carrier (they've been together since kittenhood and often sleep curled up together) and said we'd have to forfeit our seven airline tickets if we couldn't figure out a solution. Luckily, southwest has carriers for sale right at the airport, so for a mere $300 extra round trip we were allowed to board our flight. Not incidentally, we only fly Southwest now.

 

Wish I would have thought to ask the hive for advice back then.

[duckens]

How to get what you want from complaining:
 

1) Keep VERY good records.  Documentation is your friend.
 

Keep ONE notebook or sheet of paper of

--who you are talking to

--their title

--date/time

--any promises or information given like, "The check is in the mail," or " You need to talk to _______ in _________ about that."
 

2) Keep moving up the chain of command.  DO NOT get stuck at one level, wasting 5 phone calls talking to the 5 customer service reps when you need to be talking to a customer service rep, and his boss, and the boss' boss, and the boss' boss' boss, etc.
 

3) When you get on the phone with a new person, recap who and when you have spoken to in the past.
"On January 15th, I spoke with Julie in Customer Service about compensation for our trip.   Then I spoke with Arthur in Claims on January 23rd....."

It lets them know that YOU AREN'T GOING AWAY.  It scares them because their name will be the next one on that list.
 

4) Be unafraid of social media.  Do they have a FB page?

 

Post that
--you paid an extra fee to be seated with your disabled husband on your flight, but that financial contract was not honored. 
--you spoken with 3+ of their customer service employees, and this has "not been settled to your satisfaction."
ETA: I'm sure that you know to  not post employee names on FB, but  you could say, "On January 15, at 1:14pm, I spoke with a customer service rep......on January 23, I spoke with a Managing Representative at 10:47am....."
--you are concerned that this is standard practice for their airline to treat families with disabled members. 
--you are disappointed that paying for guaranteed seats together was a contract that the airline felt was unimportant to honor.  What other contracts do they fail to honor?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't take any %$@& about "you should have told them when you checked in at the airport." 
 

--You didn't know.   Was there a big, flashing neon sign at check in?  To get your boarding pass, did you have to tap a screen that asked if you had paid for seats together?

 

--If the failing was that the tickets were booked through a 3rd party, then ask what the airline is going to do to improve communication with this third party so this doesn't happen to anyone else. 

 

The airline makes $$$ from through sales from this 3rd party entity.  There is no excuse for a lack of communication.  The airline made extra $$ when you reserved the "seats together."  This should be a flag to them for "seats together" when they receive this order (and the accompanying $$$).  They can't say they didn't know. A third grader could look at the ticket prices and say, "See, these tickets have an extra fee paid.  It must be the 'seats together' fee!"
 

--It is the job of the airline staff to help you through this process of flying.  They are the professionals.
 

They will direct you to your gate or the nearest bathroom.  They will make it clear what is unacceptable for storage in the overhead bins, and they will help you find alternative storage.  They will let you know when the right time to board is.  They know first aid, and they have dealt with all sorts of emergencies. They are the professionals.
 

You paid for extra help to be seated together.  It is the airline employee's  job to fix these problems on the ground and in short notice.  (And, quite honestly, they often solve amazing problems with grace and agility!  They  must have very stressful jobs!)  In this case, they did not, and they don't really have a good reason for not doing so.

[J-rap]

How to get what you want from complaining:

 

1) Keep VERY good records.  Documentation is your friend.

 

Keep ONE notebook or sheet of paper of

--who you are talking to

--their title

--date/time

--any promises or information given like, "The check is in the mail," or " You need to talk to _______ in _________ about that."

 

2) Keep moving up the chain of command.  DO NOT get stuck at one level, wasting 5 phone calls talking to the 5 customer service reps when you need to be talking to a customer service rep, and his boss, and the boss' boss, and the boss' boss' boss, etc.

 

3) When you get on the phone with a new person, recap who and when you have spoken to in the past.

"On January 15th, I spoke with Julie in Customer Service about compensation for our trip.   Then I spoke with Arthur in Claims on January 23rd....."

 

It lets them know that YOU AREN'T GOING AWAY.  It scares them because their name will be the next one on that list.

 

4) Be unafraid of social media.  Do they have a FB page?

 

Post that

--you paid an extra fee to be seated with your disabled husband on your flight, but that financial contract was not honored. 

--you spoken with 3+ of their customer service employees, and this has "not been settled to your satisfaction."

ETA: I'm sure that you know to  not post employee names on FB, but  you could say, "On January 15, at 1:14pm, I spoke with a customer service rep......on January 23, I spoke with a Managing Representative at 10:47am....."

--you are concerned that this is standard practice for their airline to treat families with disabled members. 

--you are disappointed that paying for guaranteed seats together was a contract that the airline felt was unimportant to honor.  What other contracts do they fail to honor?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't take any %$@& about "you should have told them when you checked in at the airport." 

 

--You didn't know.   Was there a big, flashing neon sign at check in?  To get your boarding pass, did you have to tap a screen that asked if you had paid for seats together?

 

--If the failing was that the tickets were booked through a 3rd party, then ask what the airline is going to do to improve communication with this third party so this doesn't happen to anyone else. 

 

The airline makes $$$ from through sales from this 3rd party entity.  There is no excuse for a lack of communication.  The airline made extra $$ when you reserved the "seats together."  This should be a flag to them for "seats together" when they receive this order (and the accompanying $$$).  They can't say they didn't know. A third grader could look at the ticket prices and say, "See, these tickets have an extra fee paid.  It must be the 'seats together' fee!"

 

--It is the job of the airline staff to help you through this process of flying.  They are the professionals.

 

They will direct you to your gate or the nearest bathroom.  They will make it clear what is unacceptable for storage in the overhead bins, and they will help you find alternative storage.  They will let you know when the right time to board is.  They know first aid, and they have dealt with all sorts of emergencies. They are the professionals.

 

You paid for extra help to be seated together.  It is the airline employee's  job to fix these problems on the ground and in short notice.  (And, quite honestly, they often solve amazing problems with grace and agility!  They  must have very stressful jobs!)  In this case, they did not, and they don't really have a good reason for not doing so.

 

All great advice.  Thanks!

 

[creekland]

How to get what you want from complaining:

 

1) Keep VERY good records.  Documentation is your friend.

 

Keep ONE notebook or sheet of paper of

--who you are talking to

--their title

--date/time

--any promises or information given like, "The check is in the mail," or " You need to talk to _______ in _________ about that."

 

2) Keep moving up the chain of command.  DO NOT get stuck at one level, wasting 5 phone calls talking to the 5 customer service reps when you need to be talking to a customer service rep, and his boss, and the boss' boss, and the boss' boss' boss, etc.

 

3) When you get on the phone with a new person, recap who and when you have spoken to in the past.

"On January 15th, I spoke with Julie in Customer Service about compensation for our trip.   Then I spoke with Arthur in Claims on January 23rd....."

 

It lets them know that YOU AREN'T GOING AWAY.  It scares them because their name will be the next one on that list.

 

 

Hubby is the one in our family who is super good at solving problems both with his job (often dealing with levels of gov't) and when our family needs it.  He does all of these things and is like a Pit Bull sticking with it.  He usually doesn't have problems more than once with the same entity.  Many of his clients (and competitors) are impressed with his ability to get answers or call backs.

 

And he's always polite - but still firm - he will not back down.  The rare occasion when I attempt something of the sort he gets frustrated as I can lose my temper fairly easily and that accomplishes next to nothing.  I've almost totally conceded that area of our relationship to him.

[shawthorne44]

Hindsight is wonderful, but because I've flown a lot, I'd have refused to sit down anywhere except with my family.  If there were three seats together when I'd boarded I would have just taken them.  

 

At that point the airline has two options, either sit you together, or arrest you.  That would have been all over the news if they'd arrested you because of your situation.  

But the moment you sat down, you were no longer their problem and there was nothing you could do.  

[mommymilkies]

As for being handled before you boarded-when dh and I flew last April, we had two flights on SW where more than one person was reserved for the same seat.  It was total craziness.  However, the attendants were very good at making sure people sat together when they asked and moving people around.  And on our last long flight, a very kind frequent flier gave his seat next to me to dh (sat way back) and took a free double seat in the aisle to sleep.  :lol:   Without asking! Though he may have gotten the better deal there ;)  Some people are very helpful and I really don't get stubbornly rude people.  I'm sorry, OP. 

[Haiku]

I think the best that you can hope for is that they refund the reservation fee. Beyond that, I would let them know that you will not be flying their airline again and that you will let your friends, family, and social media universe know why.

[Haiku]

When we boarded (with the A boarding), there were so many people saving seats for their C boarding friends and family that we couldn't sit together anyway.  I was so angry.  I actually spoke to a college age kid and told him we needed to sit together and he was SO RUDE and told me to go find another seat because he was saving seats for his friends.

 

I would have plopped my butt right on down and told that rude little SOB that if his friends wanted priority seats, they could pay extra for priority boarding. The nerve of some people!

[Tammyla]

Op, I would waste my time and make a call; do so not only to complain, but to find out what you need to do to ensure your next flight doesn't repeat this experience.

 

I'm sorry it was such a mess. :grouphug:  I think human contact vs. on-line stuff might be the only way.