Joanne Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 And what seems to be her parent's decision to sacrifice their children's futures on their altar of "alternative" and conspiracy theories? https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/when-your-very-identity-is-held-hostage-alecia-pennington-and-identification-abuse/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 How awful. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Have you read the parents' responses? Very weird situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What an odd story. Did you see the parents are denying that they are refusing to help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Have you read the parents' responses? Very weird situation. Do you have a link? i can't seem to find their response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Good grief. I want to slap some parents. It's our job as parents to raise our children to responsible, functioning adults. What are these parents so paranoid about? Not having a birth certificate or a SSN card is crippling. And, really? She's never been to a doctor? Think of the money I could have saved by not taking my kids to the doctor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Do you have a link? i can't seem to find their response. https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/james-and-lisa-pennington-respond-to-identification-abuse-claims/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well, going public like this (I saw her FB appeal before coming here) is surely going to get her some attention, and, with luck, some real help. Unfortunately it gives folks who do not know better about homeschooling more ammo, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ugh. I read the mom's response. Not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There's got to be more to the story that we aren't seeing. If not, then that is just horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There's got to be more to the story that we aren't seeing. If not, then that is just horrendous. You know, I've considered that...but I cannot find a reason for a child to not have a birth certificate. I cannot find a way to justify my child not being able to function in society---those things smacked loudly of over control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You know, I've considered that...but I cannot find a reason for a child to not have a birth certificate. I cannot find a way to justify my child not being able to function in society---those things smacked loudly of over control. I've seen people argue that somehow having a birth certificate was going to enable the government to "register" your child. These people were usually pretty far down the path of paranoia, but they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 the parents say the other children have birth certificates and have gone to college. They also say that Alicia won't talk to them. I have to say, this doesn't strike me as the parents not helping or being overly controlling. It seems that perhaps there is some rift between Alicia and her parents that an intermediary could come in and help resolve. Honestly, I wonder if the parents are just not that in tune with how things work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well, they at least dropped the ball making sure the poor girl had a birth certificate. The mom's response was not impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When the parents file their federal tax, don't they have to include children and the children's SSN in the filing? Won't it be fraud by omission? This news reminds me of the Shadow Children series my older read many years ago even though the context is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well, they at least dropped the ball making sure the poor girl had a birth certificate. The mom's response was not impressive. There is another section where the parents say that Alicia told them not to contact her via email, text, or phone call. I would be interested to hear the other children's responses to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When the parents file their federal tax, don't they have to include children and the children's SSN in the filing? Won't it be fraud by omission? This news reminds me of the Shadow Children series my older read many years ago even though the context is different. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I read the transcribed response of Mom. Who doesn't know if, where, and the need for a birth certificate AND social for their child? Sorry, but the "we aren't blocking her and we love her" is unsufficient for having created, birthed, and raised a child in the US in the 1990's and 2000's and not HAVE those items and know where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 And of course, let's label all homeschoolers. "This situation transcends homeschooling. According to The Independent UK, “Globally, there are an estimated 220 million children under five across the world whose birth is not recorded.†That number is increasingly rapidly, as “51 million babies – almost one in three of all babies born across the world annually – …are not registered each year.†These are called “hidden children.†And the tragedy of these increasing numbers of hidden children is reflected in what can result from not having identification: There is growing evidence that, without a birth certificate, such youngsters are more likely to be poorer than even the most disadvantaged of their peers, struggling to access healthcare, attend school, sit exams, or even get the vaccinations they need to survive… A child without a birth certificate, and therefore unable to prove his or her age, is more at risk of being exploited by being put to work, of being arrested and treated as an adult in the justice system, of being forcibly conscripted into the armed forces or child marriage, or of being trafficked. It is also almost impossible to open a bank account, get a passport, vote, or even gain employment, without a record of your birth. By denying their children documentation of their existence and citizenship, such parents set up their children for future exploitation and abuse, even trafficking. They are forcing their children into jobs that are unsafe and/or lacking basic rights and protections. For example, I have heard from a number of homeschool alumni who were forced into sex work because they had no other ways to stay afloat. Alecia is lucky to be supported and surrounded by caring extended family and friends who have taken her into their care. Not all children or homeschool alumni have such a safety net. They enter the adult world in extremely precarious and dangerous situations and their options for surviving in that world are limited. Sadly, even with all the love and support she has, Alecia faces an uphill battle. And what is tragic about that battle is how unnecessary it is — if only her parents were willing to help her and/or filed the necessary paperwork years ago. Instead, they appear to only value their own “parental rights†to the point of being willing to sacrifice Alecia’s own rights as a person. This is one end result of the parental rights mindsetchampioned by groups like HSLDA and ParentalRights.org, who believe children have no rights and are nothing more than spiritual “weapons†needing to be “carefully crafted†without government interference." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There is another section where the parents say that Alicia told them not to contact her via email, text, or phone call. I would be interested to hear the other children's responses to this. Whether or not that is true doesn't excuse the mom's clueless response. What responsible parent doesn't know if their child's birth was registered and where the certificate is? And she wasn't even their first (not that that's an excuse, either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You know, I've considered that...but I cannot find a reason for a child to not have a birth certificate. I cannot find a way to justify my child not being able to function in society---those things smacked loudly of over control. :iagree: And even if you accept that they just were living in some parallel universe where they thought it was okay not to have that documentation, she left them months ago and has been trying to resolve this since then. It seems pretty clear they're stonewalling her. If it's true that the other children get their identification records, then it may also be true that it's because they've done what the parents want and this daughter has refused. Like, the mom's statement that she just ran away and suddenly cut off contact with zero warning at all seems really suspicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Whether or not that is true doesn't excuse the mom's clueless response. What responsible parent doesn't know if their child's birth was registered and where the certificate is? And she wasn't even their first (not that that's an excuse, either). Yeah, I think she is pretty clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Do her parents not file tax returns? Don't dependents have to have socil security numbers? Even if there is a "rift", there is no reason for the parents not to provide the basics to make it possible for Alecia to function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have to confess that we actually discussed the hypothetical possibility of keeping our children 'under the radar'. Obviously it was never going to be a realistic option in this day and age, so it wasn't something we seriously considered doing. But I can empathize, to a certain extent, with the feelings of ambivalence that some parents might experience. Once a child is 'in the system', there is no way she can ever escape from it. She will be observed and controlled for her entire life. I felt sort of a sense of magical freedom during those first few days of our babies' lives, when our they weren't on record or known to any authorities. Registering their births was like signing the social contract on their behalves: necessary, even good, but still a little pang at the irreversibility of it. I hope this poor young woman and her advisers can manage to get her proof of identity sorted out soon. It must be a horrible place for her to be in. I'm surprised that the parents can't be somehow legally compelled to give her all possible assistance, given that they were so sorely remiss in failing to even get a birth certificate for her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If it's true that the other children get their identification records, then it may also be true that it's because they've done what the parents want and this daughter has refused. Like, the mom's statement that she just ran away and suddenly cut off contact with zero warning at all seems really suspicious. That was what I was suspecting too. Punishment for leaving the fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When the parents file their federal tax, don't they have to include children and the children's SSN in the filing? Won't it be fraud by omission? If you claim your children you need a SSN. However, you don't have to claim you children as dependents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 She left home after she turned 18 to live with her grandparents. Not so scandalous. Descriptions of their family life on the mom's blog seem stifling at best. FreeJinger has a good thread on this **warning-some people on this message board may find FJ offensive**. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dulce Domem Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 One thing I don't understand - if the issue is "identification abuse" and trying to keep her under the radar/not giving government control/whatever, why would the mom have a VERY public blog with tons of pictures of the daughter? (I read the blog for about 6 months a while ago- I personally like her decorating style & ideas.) It seems very inconsistent. We document our children - birth certification, SSN, etc., but I don't think I would feel comfortable with that level of openness about my children on a blog. It just seems so backward. Other than that I have no thoughts or opinion. I can't get to the mom's response on her blog because I keep getting an error message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I just read the last 10 pages of the Free Jinger thread. I won't be posting here tomorrow or the next day, as I'll be too busy enrolling all my children in public school and then calling CPS on all of you. This homeschooling crap has got to stop. Signed, Can't Handle it in February Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 You know, I used to get upset that these cases became "homeschool" associated. People who do stuff like this are abusers. But the more that I've read the HA blog, the more I've come to feel like while these are abuse cases, homeschooled kids are so, so much more vulnerable to it. It's fair to link it to homeschooling, sadly. I also keep thinking that it's incumbent on us as sane homeschoolers to call it out as abuse and not to be apologists for the families who do stuff like this. I think there's an attitude of closing ranks when things like this come out. If more information comes to light in this case that paint the parents as more sympathetic, great. But it's not our job to defend them. It's our job to say, this is wrong. My children own their own information and records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Whoa. That's a lot of look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. When DD was little she had a lot of clothes from Naartjie, it was very similar to those clothes. They were cute on a 5 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well, it's nice her grandparents have been helping her. I am ambivalent over the way these stories become homeschooler stories. They're not about homeschooling, they're about abuse. I am ??!! about why a parent would want to do this. My kids all have birth certificates. It has not led them to being controlled by the state. Sorry, but I have zero empathy. It's nuts. :iagree: Why is it that the focus always seems to be on "those abusive homeschoolers" and not just on "those abusive parents?" I get so tired of homeschoolers being portrayed like something out of a TLC reality show. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of homeschoolers aren't living out in the woods in a shack somewhere, hiding ourselves and our children from the evils of society, but whenever one of these stories gets on the news, it seems like we are portrayed in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Somebody tell those people that Woodstock is over and it's time to start dressing like a grown-up now. That clothing is simply :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Is this company part of the abusive hsing Pearls? If not, unfair to link them this way. And if they are not related, I'm going to order a fluffy top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. Which people? Is the clothing site related to the Penningtons or to the Jinger web site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. It's 1997 on the big green lawn in front of the sociology building all over again! OMG, brought me right back to college. Thank god nobody had a cell phone with a camera on it back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ooh I love hippy clothes! Unfortunately they just don't suit me. But maybe one day, once I have got waist length gray hair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Deadheads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Well, go ahead with your denim jumper bad self, but I am sticking to yoga pants.......yup, you heard that right, YOGA PANTS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I certainly don't agree with denying your child the documents they need to be independent. I also think it's kinda weird that she can't get what she needs as an adult. Further, I do sympathize with the parents. I mean, once you are accused of this kind of thing, even if you refute everything, you still have people who don't believe you. What if there's no abuse? What if the young woman doesn't agree with her parents and is rebelling? Who knows what stories she's told? And who knows what wrongs were really done--maybe it's just something not in the mainstream but still not abusive (and I think the whole "fear of gov't to the point of denying identity stuff" is abusive). I also think they need a mediator, and that the daughter AND the parents AND the grandparents should've gone that route instead of going the "public" route--not because it shouldn't be part of our awareness as a society, but because it's a hell of a lot more productive, and gets rid of that smarmy-looking apparent need for revenge on parents who you now believe raised you in a way that was wrong. So I guess I'm saying I don't know who to believe or what the true motivations are on either side, and that's what's so hard about judging in these cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Of course we don't know who (if anyone) is telling the whole truth, but I could see how the parents could have just put off the birth certificate thing and kind of forgotten about it, especially if they don't file taxes. My grandma changed my dad's name and forgot to change his birth certificate. He never even found this out until he was like 30 and needed the BC to get something done. I am sure there are ways to get a birth certificate now that she's an adult. She probably needs a couple people to sign an affidavit. Most likely she has relatives, neighbors, or family friends who would do that for her. While this is an unusual issue, I am sure it happens and there is a process for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 When the parents file their federal tax, don't they have to include children and the children's SSN in the filing? Won't it be fraud by omission? This news reminds me of the Shadow Children series my older read many years ago even though the context is different. You don't have to claim your children on your taxes, I didn't have a SSN until I was 16 and I got a job, my parents were in a paranoid stage of life (fed and intensified by their church). In fact the government always owed my parents a return so they rarely if ever filed when I was a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Lots of people don't file tax returns. It is not required if you don't have a certain amount of reportable income. And if you do file, you do not have to list your dependents, except to the extent you want to take advantage of tax benefits they bring. (You can also list "applied for," although they IRS will eventually come back and ask for the number if you do that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have no trouble calling parents who don't get their homeschooled kids a birth certificate abusive nutcases. No desire to close ranks with crazy people here. Really? Abusive just because they didn't get a birth certificate? We know several homeschooling families whose kids are "under the radar." They were born at home and don't have birth certificates or SSNs. Yeah, I think they're a little paranoid. I think they're making it difficult for their kids, I think they're wrong, but no way are they abusive. They're loving, caring parents who don't trust the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Really? Abusive just because they didn't get a birth certificate? We know several homeschooling families whose kids are "under the radar." They were born at home and don't have birth certificates or SSNs. Yeah, I think they're a little paranoid. I think they're making it difficult for their kids, I think they're wrong, but no way are they abusive. They're loving, caring parents who don't trust the government. Loving parents who make their child a nonperson who can't get a job, join the military, go to college...lead an independent adult life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On another note, having never heard of these people until now, I'd also never heard of Magnolia Pearl clothing until now. What the actual.... http://shop.magnoliapearl.com/mp/gallery/nov_18th_2014/index.htm if this is the future of homeschool mom attire, I think we should just go back to the denim jumper. NOT RIGHT. Oh, dear me. The mind. It boggles. I, uh, erm, <wanders off in mid-thought befuddled> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There is a document on the FB page that tells what documents they have been able to collect. It isn't enough. I think if they could get an affidavit from the parents , then she could get somewhere with obtaining documentation. However, she says that the parents have refused . My dd is actually online friends with her and one of the other girls from this family. Hopefully it will get worked out soon. On FJ, there was a mention that this is less uncommon than one might think. Someone suggested googling the term "ninja babies" and you could learn about it. People actually make it a point to not get birth certificates or ss numbers for their children. I didn't do the search and read, but I am aware that there are people out there who are like this. I also know a family IRL who was somewhat this was. Some of the children got birth certificates, some didn't. Many didn't get ss numbers. I know at least one of the daughters was having a hard time getting a drivers license because she had no birth certificate or ss number. She was born at home and there were no records. Some of the births were unassisted so there were no records to be gotten from a midwife. I don't know if she was able to get it worked out or not. I will say that in this case, her mom was helping her to try to get what she needed so that was a plus. The way I see it with my own dd is that her birth certificate and ss card belong to her. It is for her identity. I am keeping them while she is a minor and I use them as needed to get her benefits like insurance or whatever else I need them for. When she becomes an adult, they will be given to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Whoa. That's a lot of look. That's a lot of fabric!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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