You're being a pill

[Farrar]

I'm just upset because I thought we had this conversation a couple months ago.... and then I found out it's from two YEARS ago!   :willy_nilly:  :svengo:

 

I thought it was last year when I linked it... come to find out it was longer...

[Runningmom80]

I look at this thread all the time! I'm glad it got bumped. My 10 year old is getting pill-y. It's been pretty manageable thanks to me looking up this thread on the regular.

[Heathermomster]

Hard exercise seems to be the next step after sandwich and a nap.

[Scarlett]

My pill is 17 now and although still an intense high strung kid he is a real joy these days.

[fairfarmhand]

I might should update on mine.

 

She;s 19 and in college now.

 

Much easier to be around.

 

Several things that helped her:

 

Getting a job. That was a huge step in her personal growth. And she wasn't sitting at home thinking about how awful her life was.

 

Learning to drive. She started going to her own activities and got a little independence, which was very good for her.

 

Those two above meant that she started paying for her own expenses. And for awhile, she bucked against this, thinkinig it was unfair because none of her friends had to. But now she;s in college and she feels grown up after working so long, paying her bills, saving up and paying cash for her car. And she looks at many of the other students who don't know how to manage their time and take responsibility for their lives and she thinks. "I'm not like that and I'm glad!" (not that all students who don't pay for everything are irresponsible, but it is a place of growth to do so)

 

Most of the time, she's pleasant to be around. I even like hanging out with her most days.

 

Who knew?

[ScoutTN]

Bumping this excellent thread for those of us just entering the tween craziness.

Life with my ds is not fun lately and It helps me keep perspective to read good advice from veteran moms who have btdt. 

 

[kathy_overman]

 

Thank you for the reminder that many of my kids' behaviors are age appropriate (and especially frustrating).

They are supposed to push boundaries in the teen years - that is what I keep telling myself.  At times, I feel like I have failed because they keep pushing and pushing, but it is normal.  It is my job to stand strong and hold firm while also being open to discussions with them.  It is not easy, at all!

[BlsdMama]

I'd have him restate.

Exactly what you said: "Hey - do you hear yourself right now?  Say it again kindly." 

Honestly, I would expect you wouldn't see a lot of improvement right away.  Generally parenting is like gardening - immediate results just don't happen.  But they do get a little sick of repeating themselves eventually.  

I also wouldn't make it a big deal unless he was *really* out of line - like name calling, yelling, etc.  For example, let's say he wants his brother to get out of his way, if he's just impolite, "Move."  Instead of, "Excuse me, please," then that's when I'd insist on a restate.  If you're talking about, "Move Turd," then that calls for a different plan.

[Farrar]

Ha! This thread is still one of my all time favorites.

Three years on (OMG), this particular pill still struggles with growly behavior a lot. But some of this is that he's also my anxious kid. I required both my kids to do an 8th grade "internship" where they shadow someone for a day or two in a job that they find interesting. This kid had a panic attack half a block away from his internship and I had to get him through it then just leave him there. Poor kid. But it was all fine. He got to spend the day at a small advertising agency and learn about how they work and create branding designs. I think it's all part of one of the things that we talked about in this thread back in the day - about creating meaningful work. So many ways to do it, but I guess my hope is that helping middle schoolers see the connection to life beyond school is a positive thing for buy in to school life generally. A lot of the small private schools around here do a similar project. One of their schooled friends worked at a cheese shop for a week for her 8th grade internship. My other son is doing a month of one morning a week with a local business owner. "I got to see him talk to the health inspector!" he crowed when he got home yesterday.

There's been a lot of drama for my grumpy kid around whether or not he'll homeschool for high school. He wanted (wants, really) to go to school, but then he was not happy with any of his options and refused to take any of them or apply for more options. He has a pretty decent slot on the waitlist for the tiny expeditionary charter and a bad slot for the classical charter. He refused to go down for any of the other options (though most of them weren't right for him anyway... even these aren't the best fit). Regardless of if he gets in, he says he won't go. I told him he could go to his base school - it's new (or reopened after a long closure) and still shiny and the stats are low, but don't really mean much yet. It's my guess that it'll be the next city high school to gentrify based on some other trends and he can be first wave on that and have an interesting experience if he wants. But he was like no way. So he closed his own doors. So hard when kids do that.

It's an ongoing process! But the teenage years already seem a little better. And even though ds is a grumpy kid, he still hugs me! He still comes in and says goodnight to me every night. He went to the movies with me the other day just us. He is really very sweet most of the time.

Today on my blog, I wrote about how much they change throughout middle school:
https://farrarwilliams.wordpress.com/2018/04/24/middle-schoolers/

[Critterfixer]

My two at fourteen are pretty good monsters most of the time. They have their moments, but I really like them both and we have fun together. The current plan is to homeschool high school. Both of them value their free time and even with an increased workload, they both preferred to continue school at home. Might change by fall--but I don't expect it to. 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My update is that I've now seen my fourth (and youngest) boy survive this stage and come out the other side! He will be fourteen this summer. After sulking, muttering, and mostly either sobbing or slamming for two years, he is the teen version of himself now and we are so relieved that he's okay. He is a slim 6'2 with a giant mane of sproingy curly hair, who is known for his art and music and his hilarious gift with words. I'm advancing him a year in school, because he really has matured that much and belongs in college as soon as he can go. 

So these four little boys of mine have become four young men. If I ever sounded like I know everything and should write a book or something, I'm over it...I know nothing except to be thankful that my two adult children are happy, healthy, and successful, and the younger two seem to be on track to a happy life. Nothing but thankful. As we've discussed in this very thread, part of it is halfway decent parenting, but the rest is up to the kids, isn't it? So we shouldn't take too much credit or blame, and just hang in there and keep loving them.

 

 

[birchbark]

My pill is now 17. I can't believe I didn't post on this thread! I would have been in the thick of it.   It's been a rough ride all the way through, but we've navigated it and are almost done! Just one semester next fall, mostly at the CC. There's no way I could have done it without advice from Auntie Leila, Cindy Rollins, and many of the experienced moms here. Just in the past few months DS FINALLY has connected current schoolwork with future college and career and is showing spurts of motivation. 

Simplifying, outsourcing, and Dad have been key. As well as focusing on relationship outside of school. Oh, and money. Someone above mentioned having kids pay for expenses after getting a job. So many conflicts have been resolved just by directing DS to financial realities. 

High school with my type-A guy has looked a bit different than my glowing, Charlotte-Mason-y dreams did. It has been so important to remain flexible and keep the big picture, and whole child, in mind.

[deerforest]

21 hours ago, Farrar said:

 

Today on my blog, I wrote about how much they change throughout middle school:
https://farrarwilliams.wordpress.com/2018/04/24/middle-schoolers/

Your blog post made me cry! I'm clearly still adjusting, but it was so, so right. DD has blossomed into this amazing young woman, and I'm just kinda sad that she only has 4 more years at home now!

[ktgrok]

On 2/9/2015 at 1:20 PM, LaughingCat said:

 

So how do you actually do this one?  This seems like it is where things fall apart the worst around here lately -- I can only take the whining/complaining with a good attitude (from me!) for so long - and then I have to walk away but my walking away pretty much precipitates a complete meltdown.    So clearly I'm not "gently teaching" ( :zombiechase:  <-- this is more what it feels like - with me being the person running away screaming )

 

This is then you send them to go have a sandwich/shower/nap on their own. Away from you. 

Or make it into a joke, if they can handle it. "Oh, so we are arguing now. that's what we are doing. Want to thumb wrestle too?"

[Janeway]

I have had to hand home schooling over to a completely online program. My 13 yr old whines and complains and melts down through everything. But the moment he doesn't have school work, he is fine and chirpy. Drives me insane!

[historically accurate]

On 2/9/2015 at 3:46 PM, Farrar said:

Yes, I love the visual of the hormone-meter! That's so perfect.

 

My tween is in counseling, and this is actually what her therapist did with her yesterday. She drew a thermometer and labeled it low, medium and high. They talked about what tween felt at each point of stress physically and emotionally (IE: sweaty palms, heart races, thoughts keep floating, catastrophizing, etc). Then, they discussed what would be the ideal way for tween to act at each level as well as what tween wants others to do at each level. 

[cintinative]

I was just thinking of this thread today and I figure it needs a bump for the start of the new year.

 

[Porridge]

Thanks for bumping, @cintinative. It’s been really hard over here. I can’t decide whether my child is especially difficult, or whether I am especially bad at parenting and coaching the child / organizing our life. Probably the latter…

[cintinative]

12 minutes ago, WTM said:

Thanks for bumping, @cintinative. It’s been really hard over here. I can’t decide whether my child is especially difficult, or whether I am especially bad at parenting and coaching the child / organizing our life. Probably the latter…

Hang in there! I think most of us have weathered some really hard spells with our kids, especially around 13. There is some great advice in the first page or so of this thread (and probably pages after too!). Later on in the thread there is a "check-in" post pill stage. It might encourage you to know that all the moms involved survived and hear how the kids are doing.  

It really is tough being the teacher and the mom sometimes.  We need to show ourselves grace in those moments when we struggle to hold both in tension. 

[Farrar]

Oh my heart. This old thread.

For anyone curious for an update on my pill, he's a graduating senior this year applying to a bunch of colleges for game design, industrial design, and other related areas. He's taking three AP courses, dual enrollment, and has some cool self-study stuff on his schedule. He's had paying jobs. He's stage managed professionally. He does some activist stuff. He's super organized. He likes to be lazy and hide under the covers and watch liberal Twitch political streamers, but he also hugs me spontaneously (well, usually if I feed him things he likes) and mostly has his act together across the board.

He is STILL a pill sometimes.

A couple of years ago, just before the pandemic, we had to seek more intensive treatment for his anxiety and growing depression. I won't go into details, but that's much more managed now. The pandemic has chilled him out in some ways. He can be incredibly sweet and I'd even say we're close now - closer than we were a couple of years ago. But when he gets upset, he lashes out and manifests his anxiety as anger and has been known to say some truly cruel things. I am trying to keep taking a breath and showing him grace when he does that. He typically comes back and apologizes on his own.

Basically, he's still a bit of a grouch because that's his personality. But having jobs and leadership roles and growing into a decent young man has helped him a TON. Dual enrollment helped him get some confidence in high school. So did stage management. Honestly, every kid should have to learn to stage manage. It's like magic the skills they learn - note taking, organization, leadership... While I think we did some things right, a lot of it was just time and patience. Which I totally knew when I started this thread, but still. 

[Quarter Note]

7 hours ago, cintinative said:

I was just thinking of this thread today and I figure it needs a bump for the start of the new year.

 

Cintinative, what a coincidence because I've been thinking that I should find it and read it again, because my two have been such pills themselves.  I know intellectually that when my kids are angry at the world that they think Mom should pay.  No amount of talking to them about logic, appropriate expression of frustration, or even kindness or respect gets into them when they're the mood to lash out at me.  It still hurts no matter how much I know that they are just being illogical with their words.  I spent some time today - before reading this thread - crying on my husband's shoulder.  Parenting is tough.

Thanks for bring back this thread!

Edited August 30, 2021 by Quarter Note
typo

[Quarter Note]

7 hours ago, WTM said:

Thanks for bumping, @cintinative. It’s been really hard over here. I can’t decide whether my child is especially difficult, or whether I am especially bad at parenting and coaching the child / organizing our life. Probably the latter…

WTM, I am completely with you, but don't sell yourself short.  Your kids have no reason to care what I think, but from all the thoughtful posts you've made on this forum, and your generosity with sharing some of your syllabi, you are obviously a very caring, dedicated mom to pour so much into crafting an education for your children.  

[Eos]

So nice to read through this again, thank you for a non-zombie bump!  Dd16 still has flashes of Pill, but is a whole lot more sociable now.  This is weird, but we realized in retrospect that she was on-the-edge-of-bullied by the homeschool group we had attached ourselves to during her tween years.  I knew it wasn't great, but thought I was doing the right thing by helping this extrovert socialize.  Ugh, talk about parenting regrets.  I'm thankful she can recognize and talk about it now.  One of the kids recently apologized to her (she is in college now) and all the others went off to the high school and dd can avoid them.

Calcium, magnesium, exercise, and protein.  Calcium, magnesium, exercise, and protein.

[maize]

10 hours ago, Farrar said:

Oh my heart. This old thread.

For anyone curious for an update on my pill, he's a graduating senior this year applying to a bunch of colleges for game design, industrial design, and other related areas. He's taking three AP courses, dual enrollment, and has some cool self-study stuff on his schedule. He's had paying jobs. He's stage managed professionally. He does some activist stuff. He's super organized. He likes to be lazy and hide under the covers and watch liberal Twitch political streamers, but he also hugs me spontaneously (well, usually if I feed him things he likes) and mostly has his act together across the board.

He is STILL a pill sometimes.

A couple of years ago, just before the pandemic, we had to seek more intensive treatment for his anxiety and growing depression. I won't go into details, but that's much more managed now. The pandemic has chilled him out in some ways. He can be incredibly sweet and I'd even say we're close now - closer than we were a couple of years ago. But when he gets upset, he lashes out and manifests his anxiety as anger and has been known to say some truly cruel things. I am trying to keep taking a breath and showing him grace when he does that. He typically comes back and apologizes on his own.

Basically, he's still a bit of a grouch because that's his personality. But having jobs and leadership roles and growing into a decent young man has helped him a TON. Dual enrollment helped him get some confidence in high school. So did stage management. Honestly, every kid should have to learn to stage manage. It's like magic the skills they learn - note taking, organization, leadership... While I think we did some things right, a lot of it was just time and patience. Which I totally knew when I started this thread, but still. 

What a wonderful update!

On the mental health front, if depression management is a challenge in the future definitely have him look into TMS treatment. My husband's inclination towards depression started when he was in junior high, and he fought it for almost three decades--tried all the standard treatments--before finally finding a treatment that seems to have actually healed his brain. The difference TMS has made for him is nothing short of miraculous. His first treatment series carried him through about a year, then he started having symptoms of depression again and went back for another series. We are several months out from that and he is doing even better than after the first treatment. Putting this out there because mental health struggles are hard and TMS is a newer treatment that isn't well known yet, though I'm seeing more and more psychiatrists recommending it.

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, Harpymom said:

Calcium, magnesium, exercise, and protein.  Calcium, magnesium, exercise, and protein.

Oh yes. My version of this, which I definitely formed while this thread was happening was:

A nap, a snack, and some exercise.

It's triage. If that doesn't work (but it DOES so often), then you think about changing curricula, school, activities, household systems, social scene, finding therapy.

[Not_a_Number]

Fun thread! It's really interesting to read through.

I'm sort of terrified of what DD9 is going to be like as a teen 😕 . She's ALREADY a pill. She's totally missing the people-pleasing gene and always wants to do exactly what she wants. And she's terrible at knowing what she is and isn't able to do (this sadly comes from DH, which has also been an issue), so it's also quite hard to troubleshoot with her. 

[Porridge]

Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone.

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, WTM said:

Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone.

Is everything all right with you guys? You sound uncharacteristically discouraged. 

[kiwik]

I am just so intimately grateful that they are not as unhinged as I was that I am not too upset.  I am going to try that "did you mean to be rude?" As ds12 has ASD and like me doesn 't realise how his time of voice sounds.

[Porridge]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:35 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Is everything all right with you guys? You sound uncharacteristically discouraged. 

Thanks @Not_a_Number.

Yeah. It's been rough here. Like multiple days where I'm hiding from my kids, in my room crying rough. I've thought about it a lot and there are a couple of things - my kid is 2E and likely entering puberty, and there has been a lot more emotional volatility on top of a lot of baseline emotional volatility. The emotions and anxiety get so big, and he just doesn't know (sometimes isn't willing, but mostly I think he doesn't know) how to handle them.   

We talk about size of problem vs size of reaction (like, multiple times a day...), I'm trying to coach him on learning how to manage his anxiety. I bought a pass to the talks from the TEFOS conference and am slowly working throguh them. I'm looking for a local counselor / thearpist / parent coach to help me learn how to better parent him...

Sometimes I'm totally on my A game and I can totally roll with it. I can remain calm and gentle, compassionate but firm. I can see past his anxiety and have compassion for the problems that he can't articulate.  I can be an awesome coach.  I can set boundaries without blaming or sarcasm or indignation.  I can be the wall to withstand the storm of his emotions, then super-fast-switch to being the mother hen to give him hugs. But lately I find myself emotionally tapped out and really unable to function the way I'd like to as a parent. Then out comes the sarcasm or defensiveness or impatience - not okay.

Even though I'm a pretty introverted and generally don't need tons of interaction with other adults, it feels like a lonely time. DH's work is craa-zzzy right now. And our community has shifted dramatically so that the supports we had pre-COVID have largely dispersed.  We're working on rebuilding  / finding new community, but that takes time. 

I write all that to say that for us as parents, part of managing the kids in this "pill" stage is taking care of ourselves as well - finding connection and support, getting enough sleep, exercise, etc.  I know that if I am better rested and feel more connected, I will be able to have more compassion, patience, and resilience for the kids. 

We're going to start a new family routine where the kids and I walk to the corner store once or twice a week at lunch time to make a small impulse purchase - a pack of gum, or a loaf of bread to eat with lunch, etc. I think it will help give the kids something to look forward to, so my 2E one isn't so focused on the anxiety all the time. Novelty helps 🙂

Please don't quote, as I may delete parts later for privacy

 

[cintinative]

@WTM sending up prayers for you. That sounds really, really hard.  Have you considered pursuing counseling for yourself or getting a Stephen Minister? Counseling has been the best self-care decision I have ever made. It has really helped me through rough seasons.  You are carrying a lot.  I just want to encourage you that you don't have to white knuckle it through.  It's so easy to fall into that role of being the strong one, the together one, the reliable one--and in the process of trying to keep that up, inside we are unraveling.  I am praying that you can get some support in this very hard season, and that you will have some close friends that will walk with you through this. It's so very hard to feel like you don't have those supports. I have been there. You are not alone. You are important and your hurts and struggles are real.  Please PM me whenever you need prayer.  

[Not_a_Number]

@WTM — I won’t quote, but I have nothing but empathy. I’ve also been finding myself taking care of everyone but myself, and paradoxically, that of course absolutely means that I can’t take care of others.

I think part of dealing with difficult kids has to be figuring out how to make sure to give ourselves enough space to function, even if it means feeling like shortchanging our kids… because it really isn’t. Making sure we can function is important.

I don’t think my kids are anywhere near as difficult as your 2E kid, but it’s not easy to get either of them to do things without whining or sulking or pushing back. And DD9 is both totally missing the “parent pleasing” chip and WANTS me at her beck and call without putting in any kind of minimal effort to make working with her viable (like literally the effort to hear what I said and respond to it instead of refusing and saying whatever she feels like), so it’s been a bit rough. 

A big part of this year for us has involved me figuring out that it’s not the case that if I just get better control of my emotions, I’ll manage… I actually CAN’T manage under these conditions, and it’s OK to walk away. But it’s so hard to have limits, because it feels mean to the kids.

I don’t know if any of this is relevant. I just wanted to say that I empathize.

[Janeway]

On 2/9/2015 at 10:30 AM, Farrar said:

Seriously, I knew this would happen. I was prepared. Sort of. But what strategies have gentle discipline folks found most useful for helping kids not turn into complete crabby jerks during the tween years?

 

If you solve this, you will get a Nobel prize. 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Janeway said:

If you solve this, you will get a Nobel prize. 

I HAVE solved it! I waited six years and it got better! 😂

[Porridge]

Thanks @Not_a_Number and @cintinative

I had not heard of Stephen Ministers, but last year I met (virtually) with a spiritual director regularly. I think it really helped us as a family (even though it was just me) get through the pandemic craziness.  I definitely think I could use a parent-coach with knowledge / expertise specific to my child's differences, and am actively looking for one. DS might benefit from counseling as well, but I plan to start with myself and see how things go (so he won't feel stigmatized as the one who "needs" intervention). Maybe if I can grow, I can help him grow. 

On 8/31/2021 at 6:04 PM, Not_a_Number said:

 

I think part of dealing with difficult kids has to be figuring out how to make sure to give ourselves enough space to function, even if it means feeling like shortchanging our kids… because it really isn’t. Making sure we can function is important.

A big part of this year for us has involved me figuring out that it’s not the case that if I just get better control of my emotions, I’ll manage… I actually CAN’T manage under these conditions, and it’s OK to walk away. But it’s so hard to have limits, because it feels mean to the kids.

@Not_a_Number, I don't know exactly where I saw this, but I ran across a blog post at some point that basically said that self care is hard work. It is not bubble bath and a glass of wine or a chocolate dessert or a new purchase. It is making the hard decisions to say no to people, or to be more disciplined with food or exercise, or to turn down what might look like a good opportunity, or to do things differently from others and be the odd one out, etc. You're right, it is really hard to have limits! To discern what kind of limits are needed, to set them, and to maintain them  - it all takes energy!

I'm holding on to @Farrar's experience of waiting 6 years 🙂  - the tincture of time...

 

 

[BlsdMama]

On 2/9/2015 at 10:30 AM, Farrar said:

Seriously, I knew this would happen. I was prepared. Sort of. But what strategies have gentle discipline folks found most useful for helping kids not turn into complete crabby jerks during the tween years?

 

Generally, I've just been calling him on it. Like, "Hey, you're being a pill right now. Do you hear yourself?" But this has resulted in a lot of teary, clingy apologies and not much change overall. Sigh. That's probably some anxiety interfering. I'd love to get some more tools in my toolbox for this. Especially for schoolwork and other tasks that he's committed to but suddenly wants to whine about. Like, the other day he moaned and gave me weird snarky comments about practicing piano. He's never done that. Or about learning lines. He adores being on stage. Or... and this was the real kicker... about math. This is the child that the night before the math sass had come downstairs at 10 pm and begged me to do some algebra to calm himself down from being too wound up. I know it's an age of contradictions, but... oyvay.

I think you’re handling it correctly - having conversations, correcting it. Sometimes it feels like we should be doing more, but really, that repetition creates a pause of behavior for thought. Some of us “think out loud,” so it’s not that I don’t want to do something as much as I don’t want to do it NOW. 

I’d teach that we can literally change our thoughts by the way we talk to ourselves. If we’re loan and groan, eventually we “train” our brain to dislike an activity that previously gave us joy. On the other hand we can also create pleasure by making a list and getting it done because accomplishing things of our “to do” list is satisfying. It helps us to feel capable and strong to do real activities. Are you seeing an increased correlation of screen time? That wold be my one concern - getting “lost” in screens vs. real life. 

[Farrar]

8 hours ago, WTM said:

I'm holding on to @Farrar's experience of waiting 6 years 🙂  - the tincture of time...

Note that the pill also had interventions at various points in the last six years. It's okay to look for help. All kids need to grow. Some kids need more help to get there. Hugs. It will change and hopefully get better.

[maize]

10 hours ago, Farrar said:

I HAVE solved it! I waited six years and it got better! 😂

It is amazing how many issues resolve with time! 

My experience has been that a lot of the "problems" parents think they need to fix in children's behavior just need time and support and maturity to improve. Looking back at your original post, you were asking about gentle parenting strategies. Time really is the best I have found for most behaviors that are tied to immature brains.

I know intimately the other side as well, where mental health needs extra support and should not be neglected, but I think most parents can benefit from the insight that time and continued support and love will be the biggest factor in immature behaviors resolving. A far bigger factor than application of consequences or other coercive attempts to alter behavior can be.

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, maize said:

It is amazing how many issues resolve with time! 

My experience has been that a lot of the "problems" parents think they need to fix in children's behavior just need time and support and maturity to improve. Looking back at your original post, you were asking about gentle parenting strategies. Time really is the best I have found for most behaviors that are tied to immature brains.

I know intimately the other side as well, where mental health needs extra support and should not be neglected, but I think most parents can benefit from the insight that time and continued support and love will be the biggest factor in immature behaviors resolving. A far bigger factor than application of consequences or other coercive attempts to alter behavior can be.

 

But I think sometimes that message isn’t helpful. I know that I have a LOT of anxiety about imposing consequences, personally, and sometimes the idea that one needs to “wait it out” makes people less likely to seek help. It’s the same as with babies sleeping badly — yes, you can almost certainly wait it out, but not sleeping for 2 years isn’t actually a zero cost thing.

So, I’m sure than my kids’ sulking and inability to listen are temporary, but realistically, part of self-care for me has been to realize that it’s OK to admit that they don’t work for ME, and that it works best for all of us to have consequences for them. Because otherwise, what happens is that I suppress my feelings about them and then I eventually explode. And that’s much worse than having more rigid boundaries that help us function.

As @WTM said, self-care is trickier than it sounds. And for me, it has involved realizing that I can’t simply wait things out without modification, because I will go batshit crazy trying to homeschool kids who insist on interaction, can’t listen to me at all, and do lots of passive and active resistance even if I pare down the work to only things that they like.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[cintinative]

Oh boy. We were one of those families getting no sleep with infants, and absolutely, your adrenaline runs out and you start running into walls and seeing things!

Similar to @Not_a_Number I had that experience of "something has to give."  It was not necessarily a "pill" situation, but my youngest son had untreated ADHD.  I had read books and gone to talks, and I had tried my hardest to work on his executive skills. Our school day involved me sitting next to him and constantly redirecting, dealing with his fits of anger and anxiety because he was overwhelmed, and feeling very defeated in trying to help him. I was totally exhausted.  In the midst of this, there were days when my son would say "I hate you" and I would reply, "That's nice. Keep working on your math."  Other days, I would say that, but inwardly struggle that I was failing him.  Sometimes I had to walk away because I was so upset with him and my impatience was building up to overflowing.  We ended up seeing a psychologist and getting him medicated, and it made a world of difference.  He still has ADHD (inattentive) but the anxiety aspect is (largely) under control because of the medication. Basically the ADHD was driving the anxiety, and the longer it went untreated,  the more of a spiral we were in.

I also ended up years later seeking counseling for myself.  I had done all the "right" things--time with God, exercise, good diet, time with friends, but I was taking on responsibility for others that wasn't mine.  One of my close friendships was very unhealthy, my relationship with my mom caused pain and conflict, and I was still plagued by all the doubts and negative self-talk from my high school years.  Later that same year I presented with an autoimmune disease.  Counseling helped me deal with a very, very hard year personally (and for my husband who had his own health care rabbit hole that year).  Self-care for me has been exercise, a good amount of sleep (probably more than most people), counseling (now about every three months), and investing in healthy, life-giving friendships.  Self-care is definitely not all bath bombs, chocolate, and wine. And, the pandemic has made all of this harder for so many people.

[Eilonwy]

@WTM, it sounds like you are taking lots of positive steps, and I really hope this will start to bear fruit for you.  Best wishes for improving your family situation  successfully in the longer term. The pandemic seems to me too to have been really hard on support relationships, so I hope this will also get easier.  

I had a time a few years ago when everything parenting seemed insurmountable, but it has gotten a lot better since and my kids' development seems to help enormously in that, as well as talking to myself differently and making more time for self-care (not baths, chocolate or wine, but daily gratitude exercises, physical exercises, and more sleep).  

 

On 8/30/2021 at 1:57 PM, Not_a_Number said:

I'm sort of terrified of what DD9 is going to be like as a teen 😕 . She's ALREADY a pill. She's totally missing the people-pleasing gene and always wants to do exactly what she wants. And she's terrible at knowing what she is and isn't able to do (this sadly comes from DH, which has also been an issue), so it's also quite hard to troubleshoot with her. 

@Not_a_Number, don't lose hope at this point!  With one of my kids, 9 was the worst year of all, and she too is not a people pleaser and at that time was very prickly and just pushing against everything all the time.  I've seen amazing development in her over the past 4 years, as she works out what she needs or wants and now makes realistic plans to do it.  The increased ability for her to do the things she wants to has really helped, and now we get along quite well.  That doesn't mean we won't have another period of difficulty in her teen years, but 4 years have done wonders and we are solid for now.  You've got some time before 13 and yours could follow a similar path.  At least, I hope this will get easier for you too! 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Eilonwy

[Eilonwy]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

So, I’m sure than my kids’ sulking and inability to listen are temporary, but realistically, part of self-care for me has been to realize that it’s OK to admit that they don’t work for ME, and that it works best for all of us to have consequences for them. Because otherwise, what happens is that I suppress my feelings about them and then I eventually explode. And that’s much worse than having more rigid boundaries that help us function.

In my previous post, in addition to time, I have found so far that it takes putting in limits & consequences, enforced as supportively and calmly as possible at that time, over and over again over that time while their brains sloooowly mature and then over time it gets better, not that it is simply a matter of waiting. It's just that the limits don't immediately become internalized by kids, so it also takes time.  It's especially not a matter of just waiting when you are sacrificing your own self-care to the point that you can no longer do things supportively.