Obama's upcoming community college plan

[Word Nerd]

I'm finding it funny that people are acting like this hasn't ever happened before. Aside from the K-12 system here, which has been going on for quite some time without leading to damnation, there are all the other countries that already have tuition free college. They haven't crumbled into a pit of despair either.

Damnation? Crumbling into a pit of despair? What are you even talking about?

[The Girls' Mom]

This is modeled after a program in Tennessee (I think). Does anyone have experience with it there?

 

I think it's a good idea. I just don't know the logistics. The fact is we have a lot of people graduating high school prepared to do nothing. CCs provide technical training in a lot of areas. Our economy needs people who can do things besides run a cash register.

My oldest is one of the first walking through this grand experiment.  

 

First, TN Promise is funded through the state lottery.  So, obviously a federal program will have to be funded differently.  

 

Second, although it promises access for ALL residents, there are restrictions.  There are minimum GPAs, community service requirements, mandatory mentoring and a lot of deadlines and such.  It is only available to apply for the year you graduate high school, beginning in 2015.  Miss a deadline and you are out.  

 

Third, it fills in after all other grants, etc. 

 

I'm thrilled the program is in place here in TN, as it has potential and was in place on a small scale for years before it was implemented state-wide.  (In Knoxville)  I have a lot of questions about what a federal program would look like.  I do NOT want the content of the education federally controlled.  

 

What I find sad and frustrating is reading comments on news sources and such that are so unbelievably hateful and ignorant about the whole thing.  (Not here, the general public)  People are already freaking out about it, and he hasn't even said anything specific.  I'm not a fan of the current government, but I am at least going to reserve judgement until I find out what the facts are.  

[J-rap]

When I grew up in California, community colleges were free.  Most of my friends went to one for one or two years while living at home, got many of their basic, required courses out of the way, and then transferred to a 4-year college or university.  This was a huge help to families.  I wonder when California stopped doing this, and why.

 

 

[Runningmom80]

When I grew up in California, community colleges were free.  Most of my friends went to one for one or two years while living at home, got many of their basic, required courses out of the way, and then transferred to a 4-year college or university.  This was a huge help to families.  I wonder when California stopped doing this, and why.

 

I moved to CA fro Ohio and worked for a year to establish residency so I could take advantage of their in state tuition.  While not free, it was damn near close.  I still had loans that I had from paying for my CC in Ohio. (Which was higher than the 4 year state school I graduated from in CA.)

[Amy in NH]

It costs $17,000+/- for a two-year degree at our local community college (including books and fees, but not transportation or living expenses).  That's quite a lot.

[DawnM]

When I grew up in California, community colleges were free.  Most of my friends went to one for one or two years while living at home, got many of their basic, required courses out of the way, and then transferred to a 4-year college or university.  This was a huge help to families.  I wonder when California stopped doing this, and why.

 

I would be interested in seeing the history of this as well.  When I took some CC classes in CA the tuition was $13 per semester credit hour.  I thought that was dirt cheap.  It looks like now it is around $35/credit.  Still half of what NC CC is and I think NC is cheap.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well on the one hand I'd be for it, but then I've lived in states that require community colleges to provide classes that are an equivalent to university courses.

 

If I lived in the states where community colleges are a joke, I might have a whole different opinion.

 

I would rather pay for community college than preschool and full day kindergarten.

 

I'd rather get rid of fluff and busywork in high schools, have kids work towards a mastery of the material and take an AP-like exam when they have mastered it.

 

I'm all for vocational programs being free though.  We've swung way too far into "everyone needs college."  Vocational programs generally lead to good jobs that can't be outsourced.

 

This is what crossed my mind.  How good are CC courses and the certificates one can obtain by graduating from them?  Do they open doors for people?  I feel like our local CCs are not bad and much better than I remember of the CCs in the area I am originally from.  However, I notice that a large number of their offerings are high school level courses and remedial courses.  Which is not bad.  But like I said, will this help a lot of people?  I don't know.

 

Heck I wish they would make college either a heck of a lot more affordable or free.  Now THAT would be awesome.  I know, that's a total pipe dream. 

[ktgrok]

$13 a credit hour? $30 a credit hour? Wow. Here it's over $100 per credit hour. 

[Carrie12345]

$13 a credit hour? $30 a credit hour? Wow. Here it's over $100 per credit hour. 

 

$212/credit for me!

[EKS]

Like a lot of Obama's plans, I don't think this one goes far enough.  Not only should community college be free, public 4 year schools should also be free or close to it.  

[mommytobees]

WAS attainable. It's physically impossible to work enough hours to pay for college today unless you stretch it to a 6-8 year gig or supplement with loans. Also, some degrees demand much more of the student, so available hours become an issue.

 

I get it. DH and I put ourselves through school with no parental help. That's just not an option for our daughter. It's so much more expensive in just one generation.

 

Thank you!!!!!!

 

I divorced last year after an 18-month separation. I am currently full-time at University and part-time at CC (because it is down the street from my house).

 

The current cost of school is OUTRAGEOUS!!!  I *SO* wish I had finished school when I was a young adult, rather than now as a middle-adult.

 

My CC account runs me about $1000 a term, part-time. Full-time it would cost about $3000 a term (including books). 

 

University costs me $5500 a term (Fall/Spring) plus books and commute. 

 

Pell is only worth $5645 a year.

I can only take $5500 a year ($3500 first year and $4500 second year) in subsidized loans.

I have applied for HUNDREDS of scholarships and grants over the past 2 years. = $0

I could NOT get an unsubsidized loan or a private loan without a co-signer. My CS and alimony monies are not considered income eligible for 2 years (in another 18 months from today).

 

The numbers just don't work. It isn't the educational world we lived in 10-20 years ago. Just because "you did it" when you were a kid does not mean it is possible for everyone now. 

 

Education is becoming a benefit for the very high and very low and very lucky.

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

I only went to community college and this was in 2004-2006. I have nothing to say about 4 year universities as I'm ignorant on the subject.

 

College is a privilege, not a right. This country doesn't need more dept or higher taxes.

 

I understand why people think that college is a privilege....and to a point I agree.

 

But, have you tried to get a job lately without a degree?

 

 

Upper education is no longer a luxury. It has become a necessity. 

 

Kris

[SparklyUnicorn]

$13 a credit hour? $30 a credit hour? Wow. Here it's over $100 per credit hour. 

 

Where?!  I think our local CC has one of the most affordable prices I've seen, but it's not THAT cheap.

 

And of course don't forget the fees, books, and transportation costs.  It can add up. 

 

I had a weird dream last night.  My older son told me he wanted to take 10 classes at the CC a year and I said there is no way I can afford that.  LOL

[SparklyUnicorn]

So college is a privlage?  Does that mean only the privileged get to go?  What makes someone privileged and some not?  Circumstances of birth? 

 

[redsquirrel]

Well on the one hand I'd be for it, but then I've lived in states that require community colleges to provide classes that are an equivalent to university courses.

 

If I lived in the states where community colleges are a joke, I might have a whole different opinion.

 

I would rather pay for community college than preschool and full day kindergarten.

 

I'd rather get rid of fluff and busywork in high schools, have kids work towards a mastery of the material and take an AP-like exam when they have mastered it.

 

I'm all for vocational programs being free though.  We've swung way too far into "everyone needs college."  Vocational programs generally lead to good jobs that can't be outsourced.

 

Lol, should we have standards for community college? What could we call it..common... common... oh, I don't know.

 

I actually think that making community colleges better and free could do a whole lot of good. Look, not everyone is cut out or wants 4 years of college. I went to a state school and there were plenty of kids there who would have done so much better at a CC. They weren't interested in the upper level classes. Once they got to that level they lost interest or couldn't cut it academically. At the same time, they felt they needed that degree to get a job. I saw a lot of them drop out after incurring a lot of debt. A few were friends of mine. They all ended up at the local CC where they got degrees such as lab tech or paralegal, or childcare/business (to open their own daycare) and that is a good thing. But they were all carrying the debt from the 2 or 3  years they 'wasted' at their 4 year school. Plus, in this state a CC isn't much cheaper than going to the state colleges, so it really adds up.

 

[Serenade]

I did pay for it. I worked full time the entire time. I'm just saying it was attainable.

 

 

Yes.  Kids can still work their way through community college if they want it badly enough.   It's still in the affordable range for most with a little bit of hard work.  

 

I'm not in favor of essentially lengthening the years of public school from 13 to 15.  

 

I'm also curious as to whether Obama's plan is to make it "free" for everyone, or just certain segments of the population.  I'd be surprised if it remains an equal benefit for all citizens, regardless of income and assets,  over time.   

[ksr5377]

I'm finding it funny that people are acting like this hasn't ever happened before. Aside from the K-12 system here, which has been going on for quite some time without leading to damnation, there are all the other countries that already have tuition free college. They haven't crumbled into a pit of despair either. 

 

I'm not an expert on this at all, but it's my understanding that the entrance process in countries that have free advanced education is very different than ours.  I know my friend from Germany had to test into her major before even beginning college, and that was all she took.  She couldn't switch majors around, take classes just to see if they were interesting to her etc.  Granted that was over 10 years ago and things may have changed.   

[SparklyUnicorn]

Lol, should we have standards for community college? What could we call it..common... common... oh, I don't know.

 

I kid you not, I dreamt about this topic all night long for some reason and one thing that came out in my dream was what about the standards of CC?  Are we going to start having standards?

 

LOL 

 

Along the same lines were if so many people will then go to CC, will it become a requirement?  Will it also decrease the value of it?   If everyone does it, won't that become like everyone can graduate from highschool if they mostly show up?  (Although that seems to be changing, but not everywhere.)

 

I didn't have a very restful night.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm not an expert on this at all, but it's my understanding that the entrance process in countries that have free advanced education is very different than ours.  I know my friend from Germany had to test into her major before even beginning college, and that was all she took.  She couldn't switch majors around, take classes just to see if they were interesting to her etc.  Granted that was over 10 years ago and things may have changed.   

 

That wasn't my husband's experience.  I'll have to ask him again, but if I recall correctly you can pretty much get into many programs without any sort of entrance exam.  That the high school diploma means something in Germany (unlike here).  But it's then that people get weeded out when they don't pass exams for their courses.  I'm sure there some types of majors that would require an entrance exam, but I don't think this is true for all majors.  My BIL wanted to be a music teacher.  He entered a program with that intention, but could not pass some of the exams.  So he changed directions and went into teaching something else.  He did not have to do any entrance exams.

[Serenade]

I'm not an expert on this at all, but it's my understanding that the entrance process in countries that have free advanced education is very different than ours.  I know my friend from Germany had to test into her major before even beginning college, and that was all she took.  She couldn't switch majors around, take classes just to see if they were interesting to her etc.  Granted that was over 10 years ago and things may have changed.   

 

 

This is true.  It's much more competitive there, and the entrance process is largely determined by academics, not demographics.  At least it used to be that way.   And as you said, it's not easy to switch majors, or take extra courses.  One of my German friends, who did not go to the gymnasium, but instead trained as a nurse after she graduated her version of high school at 16, later wanted to study music therapy, but she was not able to because she had not gone to gymnasium,  even though by then she was a well-trained nurse and a musician for fun on the side.  But the academic door was closed to her forever.  Again, this was a long time ago, so I don't know how much this has changed, but I remember being astonished when she told us this.    

 

ETA:  My German cousin said that to graduate from gymnasium alone, a student had to defend two topics before a panel of teachers.  Serious stuff.  Although I wouldn't be surprised if Germany is dumbing down their system, either.  I'll have to ask her next time I see her.

[athomeontheprairie]

Lol, should we have standards for community college? What could we call it..common... common... oh, I don't know.

Ok... not what you"mean"

My Dh teaches at the local technical college. His department is being required to conform with every other similar technical college in the state. There are state committees, of which he is a part, that are trying to align every program of study at the technical college. it is non-optional. the college my husband teaches at is recognized as the leader in the state for his course of study. It is frustrating to him that he has to align with colleges that do not have the same rigor. We require an additional 24 credit hours over other colleges with similar programs. Those credits, and skills, will have to be dropped, or become optional.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes.  Kids can still work their way through community college if they want it badly enough.   It's still in the affordable range for most with a little bit of hard work.  

 

I'm not in favor of essentially lengthening the years of public school from 13 to 15.  

 

I'm also curious as to whether Obama's plan is to make it "free" for everyone, or just certain segments of the population.  I'd be surprised if it remains an equal benefit for all citizens, regardless of income and assets,  over time.   

 

I think this depends on the cost of living in one's area.  Where I grew up it was brutally difficult to work one's way through college.  I went to college, but I went into debt doing it.  And I worked the entire time (usually full time).  The amount of money I made was not enough to pay rent, buy a car, buy insurance, pay for college, pay for fees, pay for books, pay for gas.  I made enough to buy books and buy absolute necessities (which did not include a car or place to live). 

 

Where I live now it seems more doable.  There is some public transportation.  I live close to the bus line.  Getting on the bus I can get to several areas where I'd be able to get a job in a store or restaurant and the same bus also goes to more than one CC.  Rents are much less expensive.  Cost of living is much lower. 

I really think some people don't understand what it is like to live in some places in the country.  Don't assume that because you can imagine how someone can do something in the area you live that it is like that everywhere. 

[Hikin' Mama]

It costs $17,000+/- for a two-year degree at our local community college (including books and fees, but not transportation or living expenses). That's quite a lot.

Wow! That's what it costs for two years at our state universities. Our local CC is 3500 per year, which includes tuition and books. (Obviously, book prices may vary a bit, but this is what it cost my oldest who attended the CC for two years). They offer some great scholarships there and my son didn't pay a dime.

[Serenade]

 

 

 

Upper education is no longer a luxury. It has become a necessity. 

 

 

 

 

The problem is, that education has become so watered down as everyone has been allowed entrance.

 

My mom recently taught at one of our state universities, and she was shocked at the calibre of many students -- many could not write or communicate very well at all.  It was pretty clear they were admitted for reasons other than academics.

[Serenade]

I think this depends on the cost of living in one's area.  Where I grew up it was brutally difficult to work one's way through college.  I went to college, but I went into debt doing it.  And I worked the entire time (usually full time).  The amount of money I made was not enough to pay rent, buy a car, buy insurance, pay for college, pay for fees, pay for books, pay for gas.  I made enough to buy books and buy absolute necessities (which did not include a car or place to live). 

 

Where I live now it seems more doable.  There is some public transportation.  I live close to the bus line.  Getting on the bus I can get to several areas where I'd be able to get a job in a store or restaurant and the same bus also goes to more than one CC.  Rents are much less expensive.  Cost of living is much lower. 

I really think some people don't understand what it is like to live in some places in the country.  Don't assume that because you can imagine how someone can do something in the area you live that it is like that everywhere. 

 

 

I don't think a 4 year college degree is doable by working one's way through, but I think most community college programs still are.  

[TheReader]

I don't know. After the promised free healthcare, and what that's turned into, I'm loathe to believe anything this President offers up as free and for our benefit. 

 

Four years ago I would have loved this idea. Having seen the health care issue play out  (which I also thought was a good idea.....), I'd rather not have my taxes now also pay for everyone else's ability to go to college, especially when those taxes are/will be eating into my ability to then pay for my boys to get full 4 year degrees (or more), save for retirement, afford necessary therapies for my youngest, etc. 

[Serenade]

This is what crossed my mind.  How good are CC courses and the certificates one can obtain by graduating from them?  Do they open doors for people?  I feel like our local CCs are not bad and much better than I remember of the CCs in the area I am originally from.  However, I notice that a large number of their offerings are high school level courses and remedial courses.  Which is not bad.  But like I said, will this help a lot of people?  I don't know.

 

Heck I wish they would make college either a heck of a lot more affordable or free.  Now THAT would be awesome.  I know, that's a total pipe dream. 

 

 

One way community colleges help is by providing a bridge to a 4 year college.

 

I was recently speaking with a community college instructor, and one thing stood out.  He said that if students finish community college with decent grades, they can easily transfer into the state college system.  I asked if this held true for even the flagship or highest rated state schools, and he said yes.  He said that colleges are very happy to get community college students with a track record as many of their own students are flunking out after a couple of years.  

 

In many states, state universities are required to accept community college students with a track record.

FWIW, we are probably going to send at least one of our kids to the community college.  It's the path my husband took, too.  He ended up graduating with honors from a well-respected engineering program at a state flagship university and has been working in that field ever since.  

[Butter]

It could be a good idea.  Or it could be an incredibly terrible one.  At this point, it's completely impossible to tell because it really is just "community college would be free" with no details or anything about how it would work.  And then there are the unintended consequences.  There always seem to be unintended consequences.

 

[Hikin' Mama]

Well on the one hand I'd be for it, but then I've lived in states that require community colleges to provide classes that are an equivalent to university courses.

 

If I lived in the states where community colleges are a joke, I might have a whole different opinion.

 

I would rather pay for community college than preschool and full day kindergarten.

 

I'd rather get rid of fluff and busywork in high schools, have kids work towards a mastery of the material and take an AP-like exam when they have mastered it.

 

I'm all for vocational programs being free though. We've swung way too far into "everyone needs college." Vocational programs generally lead to good jobs that can't be outsourced.

I agree with this. I read an article about this last night. It sounds like a good idea, but my first questions were how will it be funded, will this drive up the price of education overall, and what "work" will students have to do for free CC? The article I read said it would be free for students willing to work for it, but did not specify at all what the "work" would be. I also thought that we already have a program that pays for an education for those willing to work for it. It's called the military. :)

[flyingiguana]

CC was free in CA when I lived there.  It was great.  People could continue their education without huge debt.  There was lots of vocational training, and the academic classes weren't drivel.  I took a number of CC classes as a high school student because there was nothing left for me in high school (which was a good school).  When I went to UC, the CC classes compared pretty favorably. 

 

You paid books and parking and that was it.  If you didn't drive, you didn't even have the parking fee.

 

AND the high schools provided a much better education at the time.  So CC wasn't all remedial stuff the high schools should have done.  So it is possible for high schools to provide a good education that feeds into a free CC.  If CC classes are not as good now, it's not because the classes are free  -- back when they were free they were fine classes.

 

Course, back then, the UC system was essentially free.  And this didn't make a UC education the equivalent of a high school degree.

 

Maybe, the states would take on the task of subsidizing their citizens college education again with this policy leading the way?  There are very good economic and humanitarian reasons to do it.

[Serenade]

Well on the one hand I'd be for it, but then I've lived in states that require community colleges to provide classes that are an equivalent to university courses.

 

If I lived in the states where community colleges are a joke, I might have a whole different opinion.

 

I would rather pay for community college than preschool and full day kindergarten.

 

I'd rather get rid of fluff and busywork in high schools, have kids work towards a mastery of the material and take an AP-like exam when they have mastered it.

 

I'm all for vocational programs being free though.  We've swung way too far into "everyone needs college."  Vocational programs generally lead to good jobs that can't be outsourced.

 

 

Good points, here.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The problem is, that education has become so watered down as everyone has been allowed entrance.

 

My mom recently taught at one of our state universities, and she was shocked at the calibre of many students -- many could not write or communicate very well at all. It was pretty clear they were admitted for reasons other than academics.

And what do you believe those reasons were?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't think a 4 year college degree is doable by working one's way through, but I think most community college programs still are.  

 

I don't know.  I looked at our local CC.  For the year with fees and books and some consideration for things like transportation it costs at least $11K.  Minimum wage is $8.  Calculating one working 40 hours per week and 50 weeks a year one would make 16K before taxes.  It's hard to get a full time minimum wage job.  A lot of those places don't give full time hours.  That would be tight and this would assume the kid is living with parents and that parents are paying most of their expenses for stuff like clothing, medical, if they need eye glasses, etc.  It's certainly closer to doable than a 4 year school, but it's still likely to be not doable for many. 

[elegantlion]

I'm cautiously optimistic, but it won't help my family. Having 2 years of school free would be helpful because then if you transfer, you'll only have 2 years to consider. 

 

Lots of trades have programs, plus I think anyone going into the trades needs to have some business or communications classes - because physical jobs only last a person for so long. They either need to manage money well enough to retire when their body is done or have the ability to transition out of the work to ownership or another industry. 

 

Our state has a program that covers some tuition for CC, but it's only for public school students. Dual-enrollment is not free, sometimes discounted, but not free. 

 

I think having a more educated general populace would be a good thing. 

[Guest]

I'm anxious to see the details of his plan. We can't afford college, so this would be a huge blessing for us.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The last race for the local mayor here one of the proposals from one of the candidates (he did not get elected), was to offer free CC to those who buy houses here.  How arse backwards is that?  How do you get a good enough paying job to buy a house without a college education?  I'm not saying it is impossible, but that idea was quite bizarre to me.

 

 

[flyingiguana]

I and my husband really benefited from being able to go to state universities essentially for free (except living expenses).

 

I don't think it would be too much to ask for the generation I'm from to pay a minimal amount more in taxes so the next generation can get the same benefit.  If that could start with at least the cc's being free, well, it's a start. 

 

It's just aggravating that our kids were in the time when they were expected to go into debt for the next 20 yrs just to go to college -- and that loans are expected to make it "doable". 

 

At the least, it might be a great jobs program for all those PhD's out there who can't get real work.

 

The cc near us is about 5000-6000/yr.  I'm not really seeing how someone with only a high school diploma could be expected to find a job to pay that AND go to school full time AND live.  Maybe, if they're living at home and their parents are supporting them it would work.  But that's still kind of tight.  At 10/hr, 10 hrs/week someone would make 5000 a yr.  Before taxes.  Working more than 10 hrs/week would really compromise the ability to do well in school.  And I don't know how many jobs are available out there (part time) that pay 10/hr.

 

As a parent, that 5-6K wouldn't seem like too much, but it would be hard for someone just starting out to pay that.  And books besides.

 

However, I will wait to see what this plan actually entails before I pass judgement.

 

[Word Nerd]

It could be a good idea.  Or it could be an incredibly terrible one.  At this point, it's completely impossible to tell because it really is just "community college would be free" with no details or anything about how it would work.  And then there are the unintended consequences.  There always seem to be unintended consequences.

 

And many times, those unintended consequences could have been (or were) predicted with a bit of forethought.

[SparklyUnicorn]

We all pay taxes so all kids can go to school.  Yet, not only do some not graduate, many graduate without skills they need.  And the high school diploma is pretty much good for nothing (other than possibly going onto some other training or higher education).  So all that money for what doesn't feel like much in the end, but we don't want to pay for something that will open more doors for people?

 

I guess I don't understand that attitude and reasoning. 

[mommytobees]

The problem is, that education has become so watered down as everyone has been allowed entrance.

 

My mom recently taught at one of our state universities, and she was shocked at the calibre of many students -- many could not write or communicate very well at all.  It was pretty clear they were admitted for reasons other than academics.

 

You have a point and maybe that is one of the reasons things have changed.

 

I wrote a paper last term for a non-writing heavy class.  The instructor called me into her office to go over the paper.  She couldn't prove that I plagiarized, but she couldn't believe a student wrote it.  I walked into her office with my 50/50 grey/brown hair and her jaw dropped, no joke.  This class had about 93 students in it. I received the only perfect grade on all the papers (3 total).  She said it was one of the best written papers she had ever seen from an undergrad student.

 

This was a 300 level class.

 

 

My 16-year-old son had to defend one of his papers last year. The teacher thought a parent wrote it.

 

The education my children are now getting in public school SUCKS (pardon the French). 

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

I don't know. After the promised free healthcare, and what that's turned into, I'm loathe to believe anything this President offers up as free and for our benefit. 

 

Four years ago I would have loved this idea. Having seen the health care issue play out  (which I also thought was a good idea.....), I'd rather not have my taxes now also pay for everyone else's ability to go to college, especially when those taxes are/will be eating into my ability to then pay for my boys to get full 4 year degrees (or more), save for retirement, afford necessary therapies for my youngest, etc. 

 

Oh!  Reader (I had to edit your real name out LOL!) I TOTALLY agree with you.

 

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE free CC offers, but I am also a practical person and I think this administration has to keep their grubby little paws off IF it were to work. It is a nice discussion and I love the idea....but I don't think it is going to happen.

Kris

[SparklyUnicorn]

You have a point and maybe that is one of the reasons things have changed.

 

I wrote a paper last term for a non-writing heavy class.  The instructor called me into her office to go over the paper.  She couldn't prove that I plagiarized, but she couldn't believe a student wrote it.  I walked into her office with my 50/50 grey/brown hair and her jaw dropped, no joke.  This class had about 93 students in it. I received the only perfect grade on all the papers (3 total).  She said it was one of the best written papers she had ever seen from an undergrad student.

 

This was a 300 level class.

 

 

My 16-year-old son had to defend one of his papers last year. The teacher thought a parent wrote it.

 

The education my children are now getting in public school SUCKS (pardon the French). 

 

Kris

 

Tee hee...that's awesome. 

[mommytobees]

In many states, state universities are required to accept community college students with a track record.

FWIW, we are probably going to send at least one of our kids to the community college.  It's the path my husband took, too.  He ended up graduating with honors from a well-respected engineering program at a state flagship university and has been working in that field ever since.  

 

This is how it is in my state.

 

Two years ago, I applied and was REJECTED from the university I attend now.  I went to CC for a year first and with my 3.89 GPA the university was required to accept me. The only consideration was if there was space in my program (there was and is).

 

Kris

[cbollin]

My oldest is one of the first walking through this grand experiment.  

 

First, TN Promise is funded through the state lottery.  So, obviously a federal program will have to be funded differently.  

 

Second, although it promises access for ALL residents, there are restrictions.  There are minimum GPAs, community service requirements, mandatory mentoring and a lot of deadlines and such.  It is only available to apply for the year you graduate high school, beginning in 2015.  Miss a deadline and you are out.  

 

Third, it fills in after all other grants, etc. 

 

 

 

Another aspect of TN program that may be interesting to others is that this program can be used for what is called TN Colleges of Applied Technology.  aka Trade Schools.  (and even a few 4 year schools that also offer an associates degree)

 

Those (trade schools, applied technology colleges) tend to offer diploma paths and certificates, but not a lot of associates degrees the same way CC do.  

[Reefgazer]

I think it's a bunch of bunk.

 

[Serenade]

You have a point and maybe that is one of the reasons things have changed.

 

I wrote a paper last term for a non-writing heavy class.  The instructor called me into her office to go over the paper.  She couldn't prove that I plagiarized, but she couldn't believe a student wrote it.  I walked into her office with my 50/50 grey/brown hair and her jaw dropped, no joke.  This class had about 93 students in it. I received the only perfect grade on all the papers (3 total).  She said it was one of the best written papers she had ever seen from an undergrad student.

 

This was a 300 level class.

 

 

My 16-year-old son had to defend one of his papers last year. The teacher thought a parent wrote it.

 

The education my children are now getting in public school SUCKS (pardon the French). 

 

Kris

 

 

Congrats on your paper!  That is awesome.  

[Word Nerd]

 

I wrote a paper last term for a non-writing heavy class.  The instructor called me into her office to go over the paper.  She couldn't prove that I plagiarized, but she couldn't believe a student wrote it.  I walked into her office with my 50/50 grey/brown hair and her jaw dropped, no joke.  This class had about 93 students in it. I received the only perfect grade on all the papers (3 total).  She said it was one of the best written papers she had ever seen from an undergrad student.

 

This was a 300 level class.

 

 

My 16-year-old son had to defend one of his papers last year. The teacher thought a parent wrote it.

 

The education my children are now getting in public school SUCKS (pardon the French). 

 

Kris

 

 

How depressing that a well-written paper is so far outside the norm—even at the college level—that it's assumed to be the result of cheating.

[SparklyUnicorn]

How depressing that a well-written paper is so far outside the norm, even at the college level, that it's assumed to be the result of cheating.

 

Yeah really.  That is pretty ridiculous. 

[Reefgazer]

I agree because 1) the federal government can't pay its bills now and can't afford it. 2) education is not the right/responsibility of the federal government, and 3) without high admission standards, it just turns into 13th and 14th grade.  Disaster and money pit all around...

I think it's a bunch of bunk.

 

[Serenade]

This is how it is in my state.

 

Two years ago, I applied and was REJECTED from the university I attend now.  I went to CC for a year first and with my 3.89 GPA the university was required to accept me. The only consideration was if there was space in my program (there was and is).

 

Kris

 

Kris, off topic just because I'm curious, I remember you from years back on the Sonlight boards.  Do you think what you learned homeschooling your kids has significantly helped you in your own quest for a college degree?