Reports that Malaysian passenger jet shot down over Ukraine

[Kathryn]

All 295 on board assumed killed :(

 

Link to google realtime coverage: https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=dhsxxk5Teefka-MsNjiqhmoYeQqvM&authuser=0&ned=us&topic=h&siidp=0f791e5eaf1263d447dee28ee7d8f146c658

[Spryte]

Oh no.  :(

[Camelfeet]

What a tragedy.  :(  

 

I'm due to get on a plane in 4 hours and this doesn't make me feel confident.  :(

[Catwoman]

:(

[Kathryn]

Isn't this the same airline with the plane that went missing?

 

That's crazy.

 

Yes it is.

[TeacherZee]

Shot down? I've heard crashed but as for it being shot down, that is speculation at this point. Maybe we shouldn't add fuel to the fire yet.

[Kathryn]

Shot down? I've heard crashed but as for it being shot down, that is speculation at this point. Maybe we shouldn't add fuel to the fire yet.

 

That's why I said "reports." The advisor to Ukraine's Interior Minister and sources in Russia are both saying it was shot down.

[itsheresomewhere]

Breaking news on the radio says two planes were shot down.

[In The Great White North]

 

Shot down? I've heard crashed but as for it being shot down, that is speculation at this point. Maybe we shouldn't add fuel to the fire yet.

They're now reporting that it was indeed shot down by a SA-11  missile.

[Mergath]

:(

[Carol in Cal.]

Unbelievable!

[redsquirrel]

Ok I am seeing two stories on the front of the NYT

 

One says "Ukraine says Russian plane shot down it's fighter jet"

 

and another says "Plane carrying 295 said to crash over Ukraine"

 

so two planes are down, one was def shot and the other ?

 

But things are in flux and changing quickly so who knows

[In The Great White North]

 

Where?  I can't find that.

That was NBC on TV.

[Kathryn]

Ok I am seeing two stories on the front of the NYT

 

One says "Ukraine says Russian plane shot down it's fighter jet"

 

and another says "Plane carrying 295 said to crash over Ukraine"

 

so two planes are down, one was def shot and the other ?

 

But things are in flux and changing quickly so who knows

 

Several Ukrainian planes have been shot down by separatists in the area recently. From the article SparklyUnicorn posted:

"On Wednesday evening, a Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane, Ukrainian authorities said Thursday, adding to what Kiev says is mounting evidence that Moscow is directly supporting the separatist insurgents in eastern Ukraine. Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said the pilot of the Sukhoi-25 jet hit by the air-to-air missile was forced to bail after his jet was shot down.

Pro-Russia rebels, meanwhile, claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 jets. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but added the pilot was unscathed and managed to land his plane safely."

 

 

[Pawz4me]

Ok I am seeing two stories on the front of the NYT

 

One says "Ukraine says Russian plane shot down it's fighter jet"

 

and another says "Plane carrying 295 said to crash over Ukraine"

 

so two planes are down, one was def shot and the other ?

 

But things are in flux and changing quickly so who knows

 

I *believe* the fighter plane was shot down last night.

 

The Malaysian Airlines plane went down this morning (east coast U.S. time).  And Ukranian officials are saying it was shot down by a missile.

 

[Camelfeet]

nm.

[Kathryn]

What. Why?

 

How terrible oh man.

My guess would be a terrible mistake--someone on either side of the conflict thinking it was related to the other side.

[DawnM]

Horrible and Unbelievable.  I just saw this on CNN.  We have two friends who fly 777s for United.  It just hits closer to home when you hear stories of the 777 all the time.

[nansk]

This is shocking and unbelievable!

[Slartibartfast]

It is just too horrible and sad. :(

 

 I have to wonder why they were using that airspace. :(

[Pawz4me]

It is just too horrible and sad. :(

 

I have to wonder why they were using that airspace. :(

 

Ditto.

 

From what I'm hearing on CNN, the FAA instructed all American-owned air carriers to avoid that air space months ago.

[Arcadia]

Scary and tragic. There should be a no fly zone over all these "warzones".

[OneStepAtATime]

I can't imagine what the families of those on the plane are going through right now.... :(  :(  :(

[Mommy22alyns]

Why?  This is terrible.   :crying:

[TracyP]

This is awful. I am so sad for the families.

 

And so angry.

 

"War. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing."

[Guest emmelia]

So horrible. Lord, have mercy.

[Caroline]

Where is Heather?

 

Never mind. I found a post from her this morning.

 

This is so sad and scary.

[Colleen]

Disturbing beyond belief ~ and potentially akin to an act of war.  Reports are changing by the hour and one wonders if we'll ever really know the real story.   Re air space, the flight was going from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.  We can assume that civilian aircraft between Europe & Asia commonly take that path ~ though they likely won't now (we can hope!).  

 

Btw, BBC reports that there were 23 U.S. citizens aboard.  (Not that a U.S. citizen's life is more important than any other; just noting this in case people are wondering.)

[fraidycat]

Awful. :(

[amyco]

Lord have mercy.

 

 

[Slartibartfast]

Disturbing beyond belief ~ and potentially akin to an act of war.  Reports are changing by the hour and one wonders if we'll ever really know the real story.   Re air space, the flight was going from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.  We can assume that civilian aircraft between Europe & Asia commonly take that path ~ though they likely won't now (we can hope!).  

 

Btw, BBC reports that there were 23 U.S. citizens aboard.  (Not that a U.S. citizen's life is more important than any other; just noting this in case people are wondering.)

 

I usually hate it when people say things like "why didn't they X or Y!" after a tragedy occurs since things cannot always be foreseen and it is too easy to judge via hindsight but I really think they ought to have been going around and I am shocked they were not. I realize we are talking about an area not much smaller than Texas but I don't know how they could not have anticipated this. 

 

With all that is going on in the world  what other airspace is also supposed to be avoided according to the FAA? What do the flight paths look like if they are avoiding it all?

 

I have to wonder if the person who fired the missile realized they were firing on a civilian airliner until it was too late. 

 

It is horribly sad. :(

[Colleen]

I usually hate it when people say things like "why didn't they X or Y!" after a tragedy occurs since things cannot always be foreseen and it is too easy to judge via hindsight but I really think they ought to have been going around and I am shocked they were not. I realize we are talking about an area not much smaller than Texas but I don't know how they could not have anticipated this. 

 

That a civilian aircraft carrying hundreds of passengers of diverse nationalities, flying at ~35,000 feet, would be shot down with a surface-to-air missile?  No, I don't agree that such an act should have been anticipated.   On the contrary, most wouldn't believe it probable, which is why the majority of airlines did use that air space.  Even when this plane was (presumably) taken down, several other aircraft were in the area, too.  There but for the grace of God, go I, you'd no doubt think upon landing & learning of the incident.  (((Shudder)))

[Cricket]

My guess would be a terrible mistake--someone on either side of the conflict thinking it was related to the other side.

 

That was my first thought but who knows what someone was thinking.  :(

 

[Slartibartfast]

That a civilian aircraft carrying hundreds of passengers of diverse nationalities, flying at ~35,000 feet, would be shot down with a surface-to-air missile?  No, I don't agree that such an act should have been anticipated.   On the contrary, most wouldn't believe it probable, which is why the majority of airlines did use that air space.  Even when this plane was (presumably) taken down, several other aircraft were in the area, too.  There but for the grace of God, go I, you'd no doubt think upon landing & learning of the incident.  (((Shudder)))

 

I did see this on the BBC

 

 

 

Italy's Alitalia has joined the growing list of airlines to announce it is diverting flights away from eastern Ukraine in the wake of the incident. The list also includes: Lufthansa, Air France, British Airways, Russia's Aeroflot, Turkish Airlines.

 

 

and that there were four other planes in the area at the time.

 

 

With all the other closed off airspace I can see how airliners might be hard pressed to just go around it all.

 

It is a terrible tragedy.

[regentrude]

I have to wonder if the person who fired the missile realized they were firing on a civilian airliner until it was too late.

Possibly not. Of course, this is mere speculation, but it is highly unlikely any official military is involved, because they would have been trained to recognize a civilian flight, and intentionally shooting down a passenger plane would serve no side. It is much more likely that these were rebel fighters who are finding themselves in possession of anti-aircraft missiles (possibly courtesy of Russian sponsors) and who are trigger-happy but don't really know what they are doing. Which makes it not any better, but rather worse.

 

The coincidence of an unrelated accident is too unlikely for me to believe in, especially since there is evidence that the aircraft disintegrated already in the air, and not upon landing.

[Pawz4me]

That a civilian aircraft carrying hundreds of passengers of diverse nationalities, flying at ~35,000 feet, would be shot down with a surface-to-air missile?  No, I don't agree that such an act should have been anticipated.   On the contrary, most wouldn't believe it probable, which is why the majority of airlines did use that air space.  Even when this plane was (presumably) taken down, several other aircraft were in the area, too.  There but for the grace of God, go I, you'd no doubt think upon landing & learning of the incident.  (((Shudder)))

 

Why wouldn't or shouldn't it have been anticipated?  It's not like it hasn't happened before.  Pay particular attention to Iran Air Flight 655.  The U.S., with all our technology (so we should have easily been able to identify a commercial passenger plane), has done it.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Possibly not. Of course, this is mere speculation, but it is highly unlikely any official military is involved, because they would have been trained to recognize a civilian flight, and intentionally shooting down a passenger plane would serve no side. It is much more likely that these were rebel fighters who are finding themselves in possession of anti-aircraft missiles (possibly courtesy of Russian sponsors) and who are trigger-happy but don't really know what they are doing. Which makes it not any better, but rather worse.

 

The coincidence of an unrelated accident is too unlikely for me to believe in, especially since there is evidence that the aircraft disintegrated already in the air, and not upon landing.

 

This is the main line of thought I'm seeing from US and international news sources online. And it does make it worse. :(

[Slartibartfast]

Why wouldn't or shouldn't it have been anticipated?  It's not like it hasn't happened before.  Pay particular attention to Iran Air Flight 655.  The U.S., with all our technology (so we should have easily been able to identify a commercial passenger plane), has done it.

The vast majority of those were either shot down by fighter planes or were shot down while the plane was flying at a lower altitude when it was taking off or landing. There are very few where a plane was shot down at cruising altitude.

 

When the US shot down the Iranian plane they claimed they thought it was a fighter.

[Slartibartfast]

Possibly not. Of course, this is mere speculation, but it is highly unlikely any official military is involved, because they would have been trained to recognize a civilian flight, and intentionally shooting down a passenger plane would serve no side. It is much more likely that these were rebel fighters who are finding themselves in possession of anti-aircraft missiles (possibly courtesy of Russian sponsors) and who are trigger-happy but don't really know what they are doing. Which makes it not any better, but rather worse.

 

The coincidence of an unrelated accident is too unlikely for me to believe in, especially since there is evidence that the aircraft disintegrated already in the air, and not upon landing.

The BBC reported

 

 

19:00: A tweet (in Russian) from a key Twitter account used by pro-Russian separatists, in which they claim to have captured a Buk surface-to-air missile system, has now been deleted, BBC Monitoring observes. Ukrainians say the Malaysian plane could have been downed with a Buk, but pro-Russian rebels have now denied they have it.

[trulycrabby]

What an utter tragedy. 295 souls. :( :( :(

[Mrs Mungo]

Why wouldn't or shouldn't it have been anticipated? It's not like it hasn't happened before. Pay particular attention to Iran Air Flight 655. The U.S., with all our technology (so we should have easily been able to identify a commercial passenger plane), has done it.

 

The tragedy involving Flight 655 was nearly 20 years ago. Technology is a world away. We have vastly different ways of recognizing aircraft now.

 

But, I agree that it was likely an unknowledgable rebel group with limited technology involved in this crash.

[Colleen]

Why wouldn't or shouldn't it have been anticipated?  It's not like it hasn't happened before.  Pay particular attention to Iran Air Flight 655.  The U.S., with all our technology (so we should have easily been able to identify a commercial passenger plane), has done it.

 

 

Apples & oranges ~ the details & points in history/technological developments are rather dissimilar.  

[Colleen]

Possibly not. Of course, this is mere speculation, but it is highly unlikely any official military is involved, because they would have been trained to recognize a civilian flight, and intentionally shooting down a passenger plane would serve no side. It is much more likely that these were rebel fighters who are finding themselves in possession of anti-aircraft missiles (possibly courtesy of Russian sponsors) and who are trigger-happy but don't really know what they are doing. Which makes it not any better, but rather worse.

 

Agreed ~ though I'd substitute "in all probability" for "possibly" in that bolded bit.  Ultimately, Russia is sponsoring the separatists and that once again brings us back to Putin.  He's a thug.  Period.

[bettyandbob]

My first though when I saw the news several hours ago was Lusitania. Large numbers of innocent people killed may expand this conflict to other parties who were not already involved. Maybe not. Just a thought.

 

Why was the pilot in that airspace? He was at cruising altitude. That's not a space one would expect aircraft in a hostile position. It is a common route from the Netherlands to Malaysia. It's probably the shortest route, saving time and fuel. I don't it was completely unreasonable for a commercial flight to fly through there at that altitude.

[Excelsior! Academy]

:(

[Ausmumof3]

Incredible... That is too sad. My mind just doesn't want to believe that this morning.

[Mandylubug]

Am I the only one that at first thought this was the MISSING flight? That it had been a cover up the entire time..... took me a while to figure out it was a second plane down :(

[creekland]

Having a son who is flying overseas today, my heart goes out to all the loved ones even more than normal (and normal is high).

 

It's one thing (and still sad) when it's an accident.  It's totally another when it's man's inhumanity to man - even IF they thought they were hitting a different target (highly likely I would think - I suspect untrained rebels... and I HOPE they feel the guilt of all 295 innocents).

 

:sad:  :mad:  :banghead:

 

 

[*Lulu*]

Am I the only one that at first thought this was the MISSING flight? That it had been a cover up the entire time..... took me a while to figure out it was a second plane down :(

I read it that way too.

 

So tragic.

[AnnE-girl]

My first though when I saw the news several hours ago was Lusitania. Large numbers of innocent people killed may expand this conflict to other parties who were not already involved. Maybe not. Just a thought.

 

Why was the pilot in that airspace? He was at cruising altitude. That's not a space one would expect aircraft in a hostile position. It is a common route from the Netherlands to Malaysia. It's probably the shortest route, saving time and fuel. I don't it was completely unreasonable for a commercial flight to fly through there at that altitude.

 

I don't want to speculate too much until there is more information, but it's hard not to think of things like this.  Between this and the disintegration of the situation in Gaza, among all the other bad news in the world, my heart hurts today.