Are my expectations unrealistic?

[Annie Laurie]

I'm dealing with behavioral problems with my 3 1/2 year old son. We're in a negative cycle that I need to break and the first thing I want to do is check my expectations.

 

Today we went to a show at the library that involved a man from the nature center bringing some reptiles and talking about them. It was about 40 minutes long, which I think is a long time for a 3 1/2 year old to sit still, but that wasn't the problem, we left long before that anyway, and I had already figured that we'd go look at books if he grew restless after awhile.

 

The issue was that from the very beginning he was wiggling so much that he was  disturbing the people in the seats next to us, he was turning around, grabbing his chair's back and wiggling it back and forth, getting down, getting on my lap, going back to his chair, etc. So he couldn't even sit still for the beginning. We got there about 10 minutes early to get seats at the front, and I grabbed a book to read to him while we waited. He sat still during that time because I was reading to him. The man started the show when I was halfway through the book and I explained to ds that it wasn't good manners to talk while the man was speaking, so we'd finish the book after the show. Maybe that abrupt transition was hard for him. I did talk to him beforehand about being quiet during a show. He was so out of control though, with talking, wiggling, yelling "I hate alligators!" when I told him that the alligator was coming next, and being defiant when I corrected his behavior, that about 15 minutes into the show I had to remove him. He continued making a scene in the library so we went outside while he calmed down and we had a talk about why it's not okay to rock your chair when people are sitting next to you, because it shakes their chair too and disturbs them and they don't like that, and it's not okay to talk loudly during a show and that he must listen to mom. He said he wasn't going to do that anymore and that he would listen, and asked me very nicely if he could go back to the show, and then proceeded to start all over again the minute we sat down, so we just left the library for the day.

 

So, is it unrealistic to expect a 3 year old to sit through at least part of a show like this?

[HSMWB]

I think it sounds like normal behavior all around to me.  Sorry. 

[Jilly]

I don't think it is unrealistic for some 3-year-olds, but for others it is. If I had a wiggly one I would probably avoid situations like that until they were older.

[Annie Laurie]

Yes it is unrealistic. 

BTDT and mine both reacted the same way to almost the exact same sort of thing.  And I've seen other kids that age reacting the same way too. 

 

You know, typing that out helped clarify a lot, because it did seem unrealistic, when I read what I had wrote. He was showing me clearly from the beginning that it was just too hard to focus on. I have 4 other kids that are all a lot older than him and I have a feeling that I've been expecting too much from this poor kid for a long time, and that's the cause of a lot of our issues. :(

 

I looked around and it seemed like other little kids were sitting still better than him. They were on the floor though, and he refused to leave me and sit on the floor. I can't sit on the floor due to hip issues. Maybe the other little kids have had more practice at daycare or something. I know I shouldn't compare or let my own pride be a factor in what I'm expecting of him though.

[Chris in VA]

I would expect some ability to sit for a short time, IF the person presenting was engaging, and if the subject was interesting to the child.

 

But not as long as you required. Sorry.

 

He sounds pretty normal. :)

[redsquirrel]

It isn't beyond the pale that a 3 year old would act like that.

 

My kids were always exceptionally well behaved at performances from a very young age. Because of my unusual experience I have asked a lot of kids (via their parents of course) to attend play, restaurant, movies, ballets, concerts etc with us. The vast majority of their friend's parents say their kids can't do it. To be clear, my youngest is 9 and I routinely have friends tell me their kids can't come with us to a performance, movie, whatever. Some of his friends are older, 5th graders, and they cannot tolerate sitting through a high school musical with singing and dancing.

 

Some kids just aren't ready until they are older. But they all get there eventually, really they do.

[Mommyof4ks]

Mine sat fairly still by 3 1/2 for 20-30 minutes, but they had been doing that in church since they were babies, and we worked up to that 20-30 minutes. It takes a lot of work to teach kids to sit still and pay attention. We stopped going to library shows, because even the elementary kids would not sit still and listen which was very distracting.

[Tap]

I think that your son would have been fine if it was a more informal, walk around and touch the animals (even if the touching was just of a piece of alligator skin) and look at them in cages.  Expecting him to sit in chairs and to watch someone talk and show about animals is definitely not your sons forte yet.  

 

Yes, kids can be taught to sit still for longer periods of time, but starting with 5 or 10 minutes is about the expectation I would have for a child who is that young.  Some kids can do it naturally, so don't judge your son by the actions of ofter's kids. Research kinesthetic learning, it sounds like his natural method of learning.

[Arcadia]

. We got there about 10 minutes early to get seats at the front, and I grabbed a book to read to him while we waited. He sat still during that time because I was reading to him. The man started the show when I was halfway through the book and I explained to ds that it wasn't good manners to talk while the man was speaking, so we'd finish the book after the show. Maybe that abrupt transition was hard for him.

Not being able to finish the book before the show start would have been the deal breaker for my older at that age. He would have cried.

The wiggling and playing with the chair would have been normal.

[bolt.]

I think it was fine for you to see if he could handle it. I also think it was fine for him to show you he wasn't ready. It was a good learning experience. Another time you might be able to use this experience to prepare him for something similar in the future.

 

As for expectations, I suggest you tell yourself their you are going to 'try' these experiences and 'watch and see' how he reacts. Have a plan either way. Don't be disappointed or angry to learn that you needed to remove him: that was always one of the plans.

[Desert Strawberry]

Some of mine can and some can't. I have a clingy 3yo. I have found it best to have him sit on the floor in front of my legs in these situations. Sitting on the floor is easier for little bodies than sitting in a big chair, and I am still in touching distance.

[LucyStoner]

What was the age range for the program?

[maize]

Totally depends on the 3 year old. Some will, some won't.

 

Now you know which category yours is in :D He's perfectly normal.

[Walking-Iris]

I always have my little ones on the floor of library programs. I don't think what you described is unusual though. BTDT.

 

Don't feel bad because you had to leave. You're not the first or the last Mom to have to leave in the middle of a situation.

 

Maybe just practice. Keep going to any library thing for his age range, or any other community thing. Take him to as many different places as you can, even things not necessarily for kids. Those skills are learned with practice and a lot of swallowing your own embarrassment and pride  ;)

 

It gets better!

[Caroline]

You know, typing that out helped clarify a lot, because it did seem unrealistic, when I read what I had wrote. He was showing me clearly from the beginning that it was just too hard to focus on. I have 4 other kids that are all a lot older than him and I have a feeling that I've been expecting too much from this poor kid for a long time, and that's the cause of a lot of our issues. :(

 

I sometimes do this with my youngest, too. He is 12 years younger than his oldest brother. So I have one starting his second year of college, and one starting second grade. It is sometimes hard to remember that he is only 7. It doesn't help that his next oldest sibling is a girl who is an old soul.

[KRG]

My youngest is about the same age--sounds very typical to me.  He has yet to make it through a 45 storytime at the library.  Some kiddos are just wired differently.

[applethyme]

Some children mature earlier than others.  Dd could have sat still for most of it.  Ds is now 6 and can just now sit still for more than 20 minutes. 

[City Mouse]

It sounds unrealistic for him.

My two kids were complete opposites in that my dd would have sat transfixed for something like that at 3 yrs old. My DS is now 12 and still would not think something like that was enjoyable even though he has learned how to sit and be quiet and non disruptive. Even now, he prefers things were he can be an active participant and move around.

[texasmama]

This depends very much on the individual child, but wiggly three year olds are very much within the norm.  I had one three year old that I could have taken to an opera safely.  I had one that couldn't be contained at a short basketball game for older brothers.  The other two fell somewhere in between.  I swear my 8 year old is still amazingly wiggly.

[ThisIsTheDay]

You know, typing that out helped clarify a lot, because it did seem unrealistic, when I read what I had wrote. He was showing me clearly from the beginning that it was just too hard to focus on. I have 4 other kids that are all a lot older than him and I have a feeling that I've been expecting too much from this poor kid for a long time, and that's the cause of a lot of our issues. :(

 

I looked around and it seemed like other little kids were sitting still better than him. They were on the floor though, and he refused to leave me and sit on the floor. I can't sit on the floor due to hip issues. Maybe the other little kids have had more practice at daycare or something. I know I shouldn't compare or let my own pride be a factor in what I'm expecting of him though.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  I think you've nailed it with many of your comments here.  Just because some kids can sit through, it's obviously not as easy for your wiggleworm.  I'm sure there are plenty of other things he can do better that most 3 year olds, this just isn't one of them. 

 

The "terrible twos" never fazed me, but with both of my kids, I struggled when they were four.  With my second, I found myself yelling so much that I would have a sore throat at the end of almost every day. I made the rest of us miserable. (It didn't seem to bother him, he wouldn't listen whether I whispered or yelled.)  At that same time, I noticed a parenting class using the methodology of someone I'd been familiar with.  I took the class, which lasted several weeks, not because I needed to be a "better" parent, but because I needed to learn to work with my son the way he was. 

 

You don't sound like you are at that extreme, but I'm sharing to encourage you further in your comments here.

[Melissa in Australia]

all kids are diferent. My kids could sit still for a long time from a very young age. But my kids are very quiet naturally - even as older teens they don't talk all that much

[SKL]

I think he's within the range of normal as others said.  I also suggest that the way you are explaining expectations to him is a little over his head.  Keep it short and simple.  Instead of saying what "not" to do, tell him what to do (listen; butt on the seat).  Also, model the behavior you want from him.  If you were talking to him during the performance, he was not getting the message that we don't talk during performances.

[LostSurprise]

I think that's a difficult age to sit in the front of the room. I generally stayed near the back where we could make a hasty getaway or wander and come back wander and come back a few times. 

 

Some kids can not sit still. 

 

Some kids can sit still in some instances but get really excited by being in a crowd. 

 

Some kids can sit still until the subject outlasts their interest. 

 

Really, even if you have a fairly quiet child, it's hard to say what will come. Definitely inhabit the back a bit. Allow him to get a feel for what is expected in a theater. Be prepared to leave when you see things aren't working out. 

[Annie Laurie]

What was the age range for the program?

 

There isn't a suggested age range, they just have these programs during the summer that anyone can come to. My 10 year old wanted to see the reptiles, I wouldn't have attended for my 3 year old alone.

 

Around that age I took my son to the library where they did a dance to music (maybe they do it all the time. The kids seemed to know what to do. We were lost) and then did a craft. Well, my ds ran away from me when we first arrived and wouldn't come to me. He was trying to check out all the things in the play area and even tossed some stuffed animals if I recall correctly. I was so embarrassed. I barely got him to sit in my lap for the craft. I can't remember the ages of the other kids but mine definitely stuck out behavior-wise. I decided not to return to another library event for quite some time. Since then we have gone to other events at various times (a few years have passed) and only recently has he agreed to sit on the floor with the other kids. He always insisted on sitting in my lap or next to me.

 

Give it time.

 

Oh, running away. This ds is the king of that. I forgot to mention that he did that in the library when I removed him to another part, and it *is* embrarrassing. But I have to work on separating my pride from what he needs when it comes to dealing with his behavior, because I'm sorry to say that I've dealt with it all wrong many times due to my own embarrassment. I look like a fool regularly when out with him, parenting him has been very humbling.

 

I sometimes do this with my youngest, too. He is 12 years younger than his oldest brother. So I have one starting his second year of college, and one starting second grade. It is sometimes hard to remember that he is only 7. It doesn't help that his next oldest sibling is a girl who is an old soul.

 

Yes, I'm just now realizing how much I was doing this without realizing it. His next oldest sibling is 10.

 

It sounds unrealistic for him.

My two kids were complete opposites in that my dd would have sat transfixed for something like that at 3 yrs old. My DS is now 12 and still would not think something like that was enjoyable even though he has learned how to sit and be quiet and non disruptive. Even now, he prefers things were he can be an active participant and move around.

 

This child is so completely different from my other kids. You would think after 4 kids I would have a clue as to how to parent him, but no, he's teaching me all new things.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  I think you've nailed it with many of your comments here.  Just because some kids can sit through, it's obviously not as easy for your wiggleworm.  I'm sure there are plenty of other things he can do better that most 3 year olds, this just isn't one of them. 

 

The "terrible twos" never fazed me, but with both of my kids, I struggled when they were four.  With my second, I found myself yelling so much that I would have a sore throat at the end of almost every day. I made the rest of us miserable. (It didn't seem to bother him, he wouldn't listen whether I whispered or yelled.)  At that same time, I noticed a parenting class using the methodology of someone I'd been familiar with.  I took the class, which lasted several weeks, not because I needed to be a "better" parent, but because I needed to learn to work with my son the way he was. 

 

You don't sound like you are at that extreme, but I'm sharing to encourage you further in your comments here.

 

I do need to find some new strategies. I've spent many days crying because I feel so out of my league with him, and I know I'm doing a lot wrong with him.

 

I think he's within the range of normal as others said.  I also suggest that the way you are explaining expectations to him is a little over his head.  Keep it short and simple.  Instead of saying what "not" to do, tell him what to do (listen; butt on the seat).  Also, model the behavior you want from him.  If you were talking to him during the performance, he was not getting the message that we don't talk during performances.

 

I don't think I was talking during the performance, other than to remind him to be quiet, which seems reasonable to me. But, I agree that I'm too used to talking to my older kids and I like what you said about keeping it short and simple.

 

I don't know if you have done the story time stuff at the library (assuming you have that).  When we did it, it lasted about 30 minutes.  But this was a mix of songs, one short book, getting up and dancing, and then ended with playing with toys.  That is the sort of thing that often catches the attention of 3 year olds.  And yet I do recall some of them weren't into that and would randomly wander around the room.

 

We have done it in the past, but he was always very clingy and not that interested, he often insisted on leaving. This is the kind of thing we should probably revisit before making the leap to something like the reptile show.

 

I think that's a difficult age to sit in the front of the room. I generally stayed near the back where we could make a hasty getaway or wander and come back wander and come back a few times. 

 

Some kids can not sit still. 

 

Some kids can sit still in some instances but get really excited by being in a crowd. 

 

Some kids can sit still until the subject outlasts their interest. 

 

Really, even if you have a fairly quiet child, it's hard to say what will come. Definitely inhabit the back a bit. Allow him to get a feel for what is expected in a theater. Be prepared to leave when you see things aren't working out. 

 

This is what I used to do, sit away from everyone so we could wander off when he wanted to and not disturb other people. The hard thing is that since all of his siblings are so much older, he very much wants to do what they do. I was taking my 10 year old to see it and 3 year old wanted to sit up front by him. Now I know that he's just not ready for that. Tomorrow there's another show with a police dog, he really wants to see the dog because he loves the book Officer Buckle and Gloria, but I will insist we sit away from things and will repeat about being quiet beforehand. We've been to other shows he did better at, and we sat on the floor for those, I have hip problems that make that painful for me though.

[Jenny in Florida]

And, you know, kids are just different about how they react to and handle those situations.

 

My son has a friend who is almost a year older. They are teens now, but they have known each other since they were preschool-aged. Ever since he was little, I've taken my son to all kinds of events. He started attending full-length Shakespeare plays when he was about seven, for example. He happily sat through operas and ballets when not much older. He was always very active (and loud, oh my goodness, so loud), but he would settle down for those kinds of events.

 

Meanwhile, his friend's mom was constantly frustrated that her son just would not sit still even for abbreviated, kid-friendly performances. I remember telling her about an opportunity for cheap or free tickets to an opera dress rehearsal once, and her sighing and saying how she looked forward to doing those things with her son when he was a little older "and didn't WIGGLE so."

 

But, you know, within a few years, it all worked out. Her son is now a serious classical singer hoping to study vocal performance in college. He composes his own music. He ended up performing in a couple of operas with my son when their children's choir was recruited to participate with our local opera company. The fact that he didn't like to sit still and pay attention when he was four didn't indicate anything about his personality or behavior other than that he wasn't ready to sit still and pay attention when he was four.

 

I think your son's behavior is absolutely normal. He wasn't interested and/or wasn't in the mood to stop listening to the book and pay attention to something else.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

There isn't a suggested age range, they just have these programs during the summer that anyone can come to. My 10 year old wanted to see the reptiles, I wouldn't have attended for my 3 year old alone.

That's tricky. I so understand. My sons have a wide age gap and I find myself in this situation a lot. Program is only suitable for one of them. Often, I have parked my 11 year old in a chair with a book while we do a program with the preschool set or sent my 11 year old into the program and read on a chair outside the room with the little guy.

 

My library has a big glass wall between the collections and the program room though, so that made it easier.

 

It will get easier- now that my younger son is 5, he is able to sit for many more things.

[LMD]

my son is nearly 4 and has done pretty much word for word similar behaviour... We only recently started going back to the library after a few famous meltdowns! I think some kids could do it at that age, but many couldn't. I know it would be overwhelming for mine, even just a big group of strangers could have done it..

[Annie Laurie]

I opened my July library calendar and saw that they're having big vehicle day, fire trucks, a dump truck, a helicopter, and all kinds of vehicles will be in the parking lot for the kids to explore. This seems so much more appropriate for him, and I'm excited to take him to this. I need to remember to focus on the things that he loves and we can enjoy together, and then look on the other shows as opportunities to practice and keep my expectations very low.

[wendyroo]

Since you left the library, does that mean your ten year old had to miss the end of the show?  I would have tried very hard not to let that happen.  If the three year old could not sit for the presentation then I would have sat with him outside the door and read books.

 

I find three to be a tricky age.  They are so young, almost babies still, but they are getting wilier.  They know what they want and are able to start thinking outside the box as to how to achieve their goals.  We were recently at the pediatrician for Spencer's 9 month appointment and Elliot didn't want to be there.  Eventually, after whining and a tantrum weren't getting him his way he started stripping in the exam room.  I don't know what he thought would happen; maybe he thought I would be forced to whisk him off to the car and he would get to go home.  I ignored him, the pediatrician ignored him, and when he refused to get dressed after the appointment I just shimmied him into his underpants and took him home that way.

 

I'm all for having reasonable expectations of three year olds, but I'm also all for setting firm boundaries to ensure they don't think they rule the roost.

 

Wendy

[Annie Laurie]

Since you left the library, does that mean your ten year old had to miss the end of the show?  I would have tried very hard not to let that happen.  If the three year old could not sit for the presentation then I would have sat with him outside the door and read books.

 

I find three to be a tricky age.  They are so young, almost babies still, but they are getting wilier.  They know what they want and are able to start thinking outside the box as to how to achieve their goals.  We were recently at the pediatrician for Spencer's 9 month appointment and Elliot didn't want to be there.  Eventually, after whining and a tantrum weren't getting him his way he started stripping in the exam room.  I don't know what he thought would happen; maybe he thought I would be forced to whisk him off to the car and he would get to go home.  I ignored him, the pediatrician ignored him, and when he refused to get dressed after the appointment I just shimmied him into his underpants and took him home that way.

 

I'm all for having reasonable expectations of three year olds, but I'm also all for setting firm boundaries to ensure they don't think they rule the roost.

 

Wendy

 

No, my 10 year old didn't miss it. I took my 3 year old outside and told my 10 year old to meet us at the car after.

 

Yes, I'm all for those things too. I have parented four other 3 year olds, trust me when I say that this one is much harder than the average 3 year old, and I do work to set firm boundaries. Your example of the doctor's office would have had my 3 yr old running out the door after he stripped.

[Dory]

When my oldest was that age he would've sat through the entire thing. Same for my dd. For my youngest though it would've never happened. He's a wiggler with a short attention span an active mind. If I need him to sit still (like in church) I make sure I take some little thing to keep his hands busy. If his hands are busy I have a MUCH higher chance of him at least not disrupting the people around him. It's not a guarantee though. He's 7 now and could sit for that. But even at this age, he will fidget and have a hard time. Expecting him to sit properly is just setting him up for failure. He honestly can't do it and is getting old enough he even gets angry with himself when his mind wanders and he acts without remembering that he can't act right then. I try to make sure I set him up for success by giving him fidgets and little things. If his hands can keep busy he finds it easier to control the rest of his body.

 

At that age my youngest was still having meltdowns that had me at the end of my rope. I thought I was a failure as a mother because I couldn't get that little fireball under control at all. It would seem that even the wild ones do settle with persistence and consistency. So long as the bar is set within their reach, they'll keep reaching for it and growing.

[redsquirrel]

There isn't a suggested age range, they just have these programs during the summer that anyone can come to. My 10 year old wanted to see the reptiles, I wouldn't have attended for my 3 year old alone.

 

 

Oh, running away. This ds is the king of that. I forgot to mention that he did that in the library when I removed him to another part, and it *is* embrarrassing. But I have to work on separating my pride from what he needs when it comes to dealing with his behavior, because I'm sorry to say that I've dealt with it all wrong many times due to my own embarrassment. I look like a fool regularly when out with him, parenting him has been very humbling.

 

 

Yes, I'm just now realizing how much I was doing this without realizing it. His next oldest sibling is 10.

 

 

This child is so completely different from my other kids. You would think after 4 kids I would have a clue as to how to parent him, but no, he's teaching me all new things.

 

 

I do need to find some new strategies. I've spent many days crying because I feel so out of my league with him, and I know I'm doing a lot wrong with him.

 

 

I don't think I was talking during the performance, other than to remind him to be quiet, which seems reasonable to me. But, I agree that I'm too used to talking to my older kids and I like what you said about keeping it short and simple.

 

 

We have done it in the past, but he was always very clingy and not that interested, he often insisted on leaving. This is the kind of thing we should probably revisit before making the leap to something like the reptile show.

 

 

This is what I used to do, sit away from everyone so we could wander off when he wanted to and not disturb other people. The hard thing is that since all of his siblings are so much older, he very much wants to do what they do. I was taking my 10 year old to see it and 3 year old wanted to sit up front by him. Now I know that he's just not ready for that. Tomorrow there's another show with a police dog, he really wants to see the dog because he loves the book Officer Buckle and Gloria, but I will insist we sit away from things and will repeat about being quiet beforehand. We've been to other shows he did better at, and we sat on the floor for those, I have hip problems that make that painful for me though.

 

 

 

You are working really hard to make things better with him. I can see that so clearly.

 

On thing about seeing the police dog (he has GREAT taste in books, btw) is talk to him about it before. Remind him you have trouble sitting on the floor because of your owie hip.  Ask him to help you problem solve. Ask him what would help him to be a little bit quieter? Ask him why it was better when you sit on the floor and what can you do instead because mommy has an owie that makes it difficult to sit on the floor.

 

And he might just not be ready for a while. He might need to do different things for a bit.  A very good friend once said, "thank goodness for my hard kids. Without them I would be insufferable. But they teach me every day and they keep me humble"  And I can promise you one of her kids was THE most difficult kid I have ever met. She shed tears, heck, I shed tears and he wasn't even my kid. He was just a huge challenge.  Not mean, not bad, just MOREMOREMORE of every thing. If it could break he broke it. If it could be messed up he messed it. If it could be smeared on the walls he smeared it. If it didn't need saying he said it. If it could be climbed he climbed it. If it could be set on fire....  But, you know what? He is a college student, a good guy, he is.... just a normal dude, you know?

 

 

[idnib]

I skimmed the replies, but...

 

I don't think it's unrealistic for some kids that age to sit that long. Others, not so much.

 

What I do find unrealistic is that you try to give detailed reasons to a 3.5 year old. It's nice to try, but if it doesn't resonate with them, a sharp "no" and quick removal will usually get the message across. At that age I think it's more realistic for them to learn through cause and effect than through explanations of disturbing people by rocking your chair, etc. 

[Annie Laurie]

When my oldest was that age he would've sat through the entire thing. Same for my dd. For my youngest though it would've never happened. He's a wiggler with a short attention span an active mind. If I need him to sit still (like in church) I make sure I take some little thing to keep his hands busy. If his hands are busy I have a MUCH higher chance of him at least not disrupting the people around him. It's not a guarantee though. He's 7 now and could sit for that. But even at this age, he will fidget and have a hard time. Expecting him to sit properly is just setting him up for failure. He honestly can't do it and is getting old enough he even gets angry with himself when his mind wanders and he acts without remembering that he can't act right then. I try to make sure I set him up for success by giving him fidgets and little things. If his hands can keep busy he finds it easier to control the rest of his body.

 

At that age my youngest was still having meltdowns that had me at the end of my rope. I thought I was a failure as a mother because I couldn't get that little fireball under control at all. It would seem that even the wild ones do settle with persistence and consistency. So long as the bar is set within their reach, they'll keep reaching for it and growing.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking about today- that I've been setting him up to fail even though it wasn't conscious, and I worry about how he feels about himself due to that. I need to set him up for success. Thank you for the encouragement!

 

 

You are working really hard to make things better with him. I can see that so clearly.

 

On thing about seeing the police dog (he has GREAT taste in books, btw) is talk to him about it before. Remind him you have trouble sitting on the floor because of your owie hip.  Ask him to help you problem solve. Ask him what would help him to be a little bit quieter? Ask him why it was better when you sit on the floor and what can you do instead because mommy has an owie that makes it difficult to sit on the floor.

 

And he might just not be ready for a while. He might need to do different things for a bit.  A very good friend once said, "thank goodness for my hard kids. Without them I would be insufferable. But they teach me every day and they keep me humble"  And I can promise you one of her kids was THE most difficult kid I have ever met. She shed tears, heck, I shed tears and he wasn't even my kid. He was just a huge challenge.  Not mean, not bad, just MOREMOREMORE of every thing. If it could break he broke it. If it could be messed up he messed it. If it could be smeared on the walls he smeared it. If it didn't need saying he said it. If it could be climbed he climbed it. If it could be set on fire....  But, you know what? He is a college student, a good guy, he is.... just a normal dude, you know?

 

 

 

Thank you, thank you, I needed this encouragement tonight.

 

He has such a great imagination and is such an interesting kid. This morning, he had a jump rope and was on our stairs with it wrapped around his waist the best he could get it, pretending he was climbing a mountain. He was acting it out, using so much pretend effort to get up the mountain, telling me he had to get through the mountain pass. His play time is always very active and imaginative, and I love how creative he is. But, he challenges everything, all day long.

 

And some days I'm just tired. Completing a grocery trip with him is hard, taking him to places I'd love to aovid until he's older but can't because it wouldn't be fair to my older kids is hard, and I'm alone with him a lot because my dh travels for work quite often and works long hours when he's home.

 

I know how quickly they grow and change due to my older kids, but it's hard to remember that it's temporary when you're in the trenches.

[Annie Laurie]

I skimmed the replies, but...

 

I don't think it's unrealistic for some kids that age to sit that long. Others, not so much.

 

What I do find unrealistic is that you try to give detailed reasons to a 3.5 year old. It's nice to try, but if it doesn't resonate with them, a sharp "no" and quick removal will usually get the message across. At that age I think it's more realistic for them to learn through cause and effect than through explanations of disturbing people by rocking your chair, etc. 

 

This is something I will definitely be giving some thought to.

 

My explanations are because I do think even little kids understand a lot, and it's been my habit to talk to my kids about everything since birth. I think I thought it would help if he knew why he shouldn't rock his chair or why we have to be quiet during a show. But, I think you've hit on something, that a swift response would get the point across better than all the talking I do. Especially for his personality type, my explanations have not worked.

 

Your point, and something someone else said about telling him what to do instead of what not to do, I think might help a lot. Thank you.

[Aiden]

This is something I will definitely be giving some thought to.

 

My explanations are because I do think even little kids understand a lot, and it's been my habit to talk to my kids about everything since birth. I think I thought it would help if he knew why he shouldn't rock his chair or why we have to be quiet during a show. But, I think you've hit on something, that a swift response would get the point across better than all the talking I do. Especially for his personality type, my explanations have not worked.

 

Your point, and something someone else said about telling him what to do instead of what not to do, I think might help a lot. Thank you.

 

I also prefer to give explanations to my little one, about to turn 4. I've found, though, that explanations given beforehand may or may not help her understand what behavior is appropriate. I still tell her beforehand what to do and why, when I know an unfamiliar situation is coming up. During the actual situation when she behaves inappropriately, I correct it like the poster above suggested--a sharp "no," and removal from the situation if necessary. Then, once we're out of the situation, I get on her level, look her in the eye, and go over what just happened. "Do you know why we had to leave the show? It's because you were moving around and distracting people, and that's not ok. I'm not mad at you, but I can't let you do things that are rude, so we had to leave." Then before we go into another similar situation, I first ask her if she wants to do it (not always because she  has a choice, but so I know how to approach it), then remind her of appropriate behaviors and what happened last time when she didn't behave appropriately (if she wants to be there--if she doesn't, I try not to remind her how to get out of it; I switch to a more bribery-oriented tactic of "if you behave appropriately here, then we can stop at the park on the way home/read an extra book/spend extra time doing something you like/in an extreme case get ice cream after").

[MomatHWTK]

http://sizzlebop.com/what-is-sizzle-bop/  :)

[Chris in VA]

If you'd still like to see the police dog today, perhaps you could catch the police officer just before or after the show, say that you don't think your little one will be able to attend, but could you pls pet the dog (or see it, or whatever)? Just a quick visit without a "show" would be developmentally appropriate for your little guy.

 

Also, have you read the book, Raising Your Spirited Child? It's good for making some positives out of a situation where it's easy to see negatives.

 

[Laura Corin]

Explanations to a young kid falls under the "Little Adult Assumption" in the book 1-2-3 Magic. Here's a link with some info. if you're curious: http://www.123magic.com/Newsletter/Newsletter-May-2013

 

I read the article.  I certainly wouldn't use explanations instead of expecting the child to behave, but I am glad to have explained things to small children:

 

'We don't throw food on the floor because they they make a big mess that someone needs to clear up, otherwise we'd be sliding all over the place.  You've finished your lunch, so here's a cloth so that we can clear up together.'

 

ETA:

 

Next day:

 

'No, we don't throw food.  Do you remember..... Let's clean up'

 

Following Day:

 

'No.....'

 

Until it works.

 

L

[Carrie12345]

I take my 3.5yo to my 7yo's 60 minute nature classes all the time. Parents are required to stay, so I don't have much choice.

 

Some days I have him in the back of the room, where he can squirm around and play with toys. Some days he'll sit quietly and listen to about half of the class. Some days he'll sit in with the class for the full hour with great interest. Once in a while, he's extra fussy and I have to take him out in the hall for a bit.

 

3.5 is rough, ime. Some days they're "big kids" and some days they're "toddlers".

Even the kids (4-7) enrolled in the class have their fidgety days. They're not bad or developmentally behind, they're working on growing up. Growing up is hard!

[TheApprentice]

Some kids are ready to sit, others are not. My oldest, who is now 16 and sits alot :001_smile: , was not able to sit for long periods of time.

 

Maybe he had no interest in the show from the beginning.

[Annie Laurie]

I also prefer to give explanations to my little one, about to turn 4. I've found, though, that explanations given beforehand may or may not help her understand what behavior is appropriate. I still tell her beforehand what to do and why, when I know an unfamiliar situation is coming up. During the actual situation when she behaves inappropriately, I correct it like the poster above suggested--a sharp "no," and removal from the situation if necessary. Then, once we're out of the situation, I get on her level, look her in the eye, and go over what just happened. "Do you know why we had to leave the show? It's because you were moving around and distracting people, and that's not ok. I'm not mad at you, but I can't let you do things that are rude, so we had to leave." Then before we go into another similar situation, I first ask her if she wants to do it (not always because she  has a choice, but so I know how to approach it), then remind her of appropriate behaviors and what happened last time when she didn't behave appropriately (if she wants to be there--if she doesn't, I try not to remind her how to get out of it; I switch to a more bribery-oriented tactic of "if you behave appropriately here, then we can stop at the park on the way home/read an extra book/spend extra time doing something you like/in an extreme case get ice cream after").

 

Well, I'm still thinking over the explaining issue and how to be more concise, but when you put it this way, this is what I did. I explained beforehand about being quiet, during the show I did keep it brief, "No talking", or "Sit still". I didn't explain until I had removed him and we were discussing it. But all of my discussing never seems to make a difference. I've tried bribery in the past too, the if you behave you can do this afterwards, it doesn't work with this child.

[Annie Laurie]

 

 

Maybe he had no interest in the show from the beginning.

 

Yes, I think this is the biggest thing. From his point of view, I can see how it wouldn't be that interesting to listen to a man talk and see an occassional reptile that was kind of far away.

[Annie Laurie]

http://sizzlebop.com/what-is-sizzle-bop/  :)

 

Love it, thanks!

 

Explanations to a young kid falls under the "Little Adult Assumption" in the book 1-2-3 Magic. Here's a link with some info. if you're curious: http://www.123magic.com/Newsletter/Newsletter-May-2013

 

I expected to like the article a lot more than I did, but once I read it, I feel like it isn't relevant to this at all. I explain to my kid, I don't beg him, I don't repeat it over and over hoping he will behave. There are consequences. I did remove him from the show. I also do not start yelling or hitting. I never hit and yelling is actually rare. The article actually made me feel better about what I've been doing, I'm a perfectionist, and I tend to be hard on myself and focus on all the things I'm doing wrong, but you know what, I'm doing a lot right too. I feel like my biggest issue is focusing on the negative with him too much and he and I seem to be in a power struggle too often, and I need to adjust my expectations a bit, but nothing is happening like in that article.

[MomatHWTK]

The key to ending my own frustrations is to deal with the child as he is at that moment in time.  Maybe on another day, another time thing could go better, but I have to deal with the situation as is.  I still forget this step. But if I can avoid having expectations and just deal with what is right in front of me, I stay calmer.  It does get hard though when you've loaded a whole passle of kids to do something and then there's a misstep.  (Someone is too hot, someone's shoe just broke, or worse-it broke  two days ago but he forgot to tell me...)  Embarassment about public displays of "bad" behavior, not acting like the other kids, frustration over what should have been a fun trip turning into a mess, it happens. 

[Annie Laurie]

The key to ending my own frustrations is to deal with the child as he is at that moment in time.  Maybe on another day, another time thing could go better, but I have to deal with the situation as is.  I still forget this step. But if I can avoid having expectations and just deal with what is right in front of me, I stay calmer.  It does get hard though when you've loaded a whole passle of kids to do something and then there's a misstep.  (Someone is too hot, someone's shoe just broke, or worse-it broke  two days ago but he forgot to tell me...)  Embarassment about public displays of "bad" behavior, not acting like the other kids, frustration over what should have been a fun trip turning into a mess, it happens. 

 

This is excelent advice! I tend to overthink everything, and I just breathed a sigh of relief that it can be this simple- focus on him right now and deal with what's happening now, don't have any expectations for things to be a certain way. And I've realized how hands on and active this kid is, so knowing that, I will do my best to set him up for success.

 

This thread has helped me clarify so much, thanks!

[idnib]

This is something I will definitely be giving some thought to.

 

My explanations are because I do think even little kids understand a lot, and it's been my habit to talk to my kids about everything since birth. I think I thought it would help if he knew why he shouldn't rock his chair or why we have to be quiet during a show. But, I think you've hit on something, that a swift response would get the point across better than all the talking I do. Especially for his personality type, my explanations have not worked.

 

Your point, and something someone else said about telling him what to do instead of what not to do, I think might help a lot. Thank you.

 

 

I'm an explainer too.  :)

 

It just doesn't always resonate in the moment with a 3.5 year old. It seems sometimes they absorb it and it firms up in their minds over time.

[Annie Laurie]

I didn't expect the whole article to be relevant to you. I was thinking of this part:

 

"But many parents have the idea that kids are just smaller versions of adults: reasonable and unselfish. This is the 'Little Adult Assumption.' Moms and Dads who embrace this myth often prefer the 'modern method' of discipline -- talking and reasoning. Unfortunately, many times words and reasons alone prove unsuccessful. Somethings they have no impact at all."

 

I just wanted you to know that you can explain til you are blue in the face but it might get you no where and that's because it's just the way things are with kids. Forcefully holding the chair still and simply saying, "stop" might get you further. Sorry if this was not helpful to you.

 

I appreciate your intentions and that you took the time to share it. I did actually hold the chair still and tell him no, which turned into a ridiculous power struggle, and I then just removed him. All the explaining was when we were outside.

 

[RoundAbout]

I looked around and it seemed like other little kids were sitting still better than him. They were on the floor though, and he refused to leave me and sit on the floor. I can't sit on the floor due to hip issues. Maybe the other little kids have had more practice at daycare or something. I know I shouldn't compare or let my own pride be a factor in what I'm expecting of him though.

When you compare you kid to others in a group like this remember that it is a *self-selected* group. Likely, many other 3 year olds could not have handled this performance and their parents knew this and stayed home. His behavior sounds completely normal to me.

[LucyStoner]

Explanations to a young kid falls under the "Little Adult Assumption" in the book 1-2-3 Magic. Here's a link with some info. if you're curious: http://www.123magic.com/Newsletter/Newsletter-May-2013

This doesn't sound like what the OP is doing at all. What 1-2-3 Magic cautions against is reasoning, pleading, convincing etc. What this sounds like is the OP narratating what is happening. I narrate, when I calmly can. This is an approach learned and honed with my exceptionally challenging child (2e with an autism diagnosis) because it reminds him of the expectations and the consequences. It also teaches over time the norms of this family. An example from my youngest son today. He wakes me up, nose to nose asking for help finishing picking up his Hero Factory pieces because he wants to get ready to get out his Legos in the living room. He had 90% of the HF stuff in the bin and he repeated something I have narrated to him over and over "we put away one thing before we bring the next thing into the living room." So there is a method to the madness.