Do you think...

[shanvan]

being called 'honey' is put-down.  Do you think the person speaking is being condescending?  Is it the equivalent of 'bless your heart'?

[liber]

I guess it depends who is calling you honey and why.

[Cindy in FL.]

For me context and speaker make all the difference!

[Onceuponatime]

Not if you live in rural Virginia. It would only be an insult if the tone of voice indicated that. I've been called sweetie, darlin', honey, etc. by many perfect strangers. I don't care for it, but it would be pointless to take offense.

[poppy]

It is not inherently insulting, no. But any word can be used as an insult.

[shanvan]

Not if you live in rural Virginia. It would only be an insult if the tone of voice indicated that. I've been called sweetie, darlin', honey, etc. by many perfect strangers. I don't care for it, but it would be pointless to take offense.

This is how I look at it.  My mom was seriously offended at being called honey yesterday, but I wasn't there to know if her offense was appropriate or not.

 

I really dislike people calling me honey, but there have been occasions when I realized the speaker was not trying to be offensive.   I do feel like it implies a certain superiority in most some cases, even when offense is not intended.

[magnificent_baby]

It doesn't bother me at all (unless it was someone creepy). 

[bolt.]

Honey can be endearing from someone who loves you and knows you well.

 

Honey can be a 'softening' word, equivalent to a touch on the shoulder, meaning, "I'm not trying to be harsh." -- in an honest way.

 

Honey can be a condescending word, emphasizing that "you" are sweet, but naive and should listen to your elders and/or people wiser than you. It definitely CAN be a put-down, especially if it is followed up with words that are patronizing, or harsh, or both.

 

Honey can be just a nice way to speak to female strangers, the equivalent of 'hey lady!' Or 'excuse me miss'.

[Pawz4me]

I don't like being called "honey" or "dear" or "sweetie" by strangers.  Around here it's usually cashiers and waitresses who do it.  Sometimes receptionists.  When I was younger it didn't really bother me at all, but as I've gotten older it does.  It seems condescending or patronizing when a stranger who is younger than me addresses me with any of those words. It's perfectly okay if it's someone I see frequently, like the cashier at my favorite grocery store, the waitress at our favorite pizza place or our vet's receptionist.  I feel like they know me and I know them and we have a bit of a relationship.  But not total strangers.

 

But as others have said, I truly don't think most people mean any harm by it.  So even though I don't care for it, it's not something I'm going to let bother me.

[mrsrevmeg]

I don't really care for it, but it happens so I just kind of go with it. My husband was called "Sweet Love" by some woman at Jack's when he went to get some biscuits one morning. That one really weirded him out.

[SKL]

It depends on whether I am PMSing or not.  :P

[Onceuponatime]

A few months ago I was going into a convenience store and a guy with a cooler in the back of his pick up yelled, "Hey, sugar, want to buy some fish?" I just laughed and said no thanks. I don't think ripping into him about social conventions would have done either of us any good. But I did get a lot of mileage out of that story. :lol:

[Just Kate]

I was the only female in a business meeting once and one of the guys called me honey. Really ticked me off in that setting.

 

(He was a work colleague and it was totally unnecessary).

[Liz CA]

It is often a regional thing, however even here in CA, my Hispanic hairdresser who is younger than I am, texts me appointment reminders beginning with "Hi Hun."

I just think it's funny. It would never occur to me to take it as condescending.

[Pawz4me]

It is often a regional thing, however even here in CA, my Hispanic hairdresser who is younger than I am, texts me appointment reminders beginning with "Hi Hun."

I just think it's funny. It would never occur to me to take it as condescending.

 

But you have an established relationship with her, yes?  I wouldn't think a thing about it if my hairdresser did that.  I've known her for years.  But IMO it's quite a bit different when a total stranger does it.

[FaithManor]

I think there are micro-cultures in which this type of language, familiar endearments, is normal and not offensive for them. I don't think the speaker recognizes that it might be a bad habit because those outside the micro-culture may be rather offended by the familiarity or the negative connotations that it could have especially in a professional environment from one co-worker to another. So, I really don't prefer it.

 

On the other hand, depending on where it is said and the perceived intent would depend on how I handle it. If I'm in  McDonald's and someone says, "Can I take your order hon?" I'm going to assume general friendliness because I think that my perception whenever I've traveled through that area is they are just far less formal and more friendly than we are here. I imagine that this is common and no offense is meant. Getting my fries at McDonald's is not important enough to warrant an "education" in professionalism or whatever. But, the male school teacher who said, "Don't sweat it sweetheart!" when as a fellow teacher I confronted him about the bullying behavior of one of his female students due to an incident in the hallway, received an EARFULLLLLL and then got it again from my female principal, and the 8th grade physical science and algebra teacher who was male. We just simply were not going to tolerate that. Not only were we equals in a professional setting, but it was clearly said in a put-down manner. If you'd heard his tone of voice the sweetheart part had a "Don't get your knickers in a twist you pretty little headed thing you" kind of feel to it.

 

He didn't last long.

[Tap]

Tone of voice and intent when saying it make all the difference.

 

I work with someone who calls just about everyone 'hon'.   We are not in the south.  The people who like it, Love her and think she is the sweetest person at work (she is not LOL).  Since it isn't a common thing to do here in the PNW, I think the people who she calls 'hon' feel that she has a special bond with them.  They don't realize it is just a place filler like 'hum', or 'oh'. 

 

I have never had anyone complain, but I am sure it grates on some peoples nerves.  

[LucyStoner]

You need to married to me to call me honey or similar. Since I am pretty darn sure the roster of who I am married to is a pretty exclusive club, it's safe to say people don't get to call me honey or chickadee or whatever.

[zoobie]

Depends on context! I don't mind waitresses or cashiers using it because it's a sub for ma'am or sir. They don't know your name and want to call you something. I haven't heard it used condescendingly in that context.

 

Definitely can be used bless your heart and creepily, but I'd rather hear "honey" than some alternatives. ;)

[Stacia]

I'm in the south, but don't generally hear it except from older folks. Usually (as I've encountered it) it is not said or meant in offense, it is just a way of speaking & generally addressing others.

 

It can be rude & condescending & entirely inappropriate in some cases, but I have not encountered that very often.

 

So, I'd say that usually it's fine & there are rare times that it is not fine, in my own experience.

[alisoncooks]

I often hear it from elderly women (I'm in the South).  In that context, I do not mind.

Now, from waitresses or random men... blah.  No thank you.

[ErinE]

I was the only female in a business meeting once and one of the guys called me honey. Really ticked me off in that setting.

 

(He was a work colleague and it was totally unnecessary).

 

That would have set me off. Excuse me?

[4ofus]

Sorry this is off topic ~ but having been born & raised in a small town in the deep south, I think "bless your heart" has gotten a bad rap.  Like, maybe it's been used in books & movies condescendingly so often that folks have picked up on it & kind of ran away with it having a negative connotation.  More often than not, 'bless your heart', used in the south, means just that.  There are b****y people, & people who just happen to be having a b****y moment who use it nastily, but then, anything can be used nastily.  It's not a general thing.  Well, maybe in a younger generation that's been influenced by the media, but seriously, it's not usually meant to be condescending any more than 'I'm sorry to hear that' or some such thing.

 

Back to the topic ~ I dislike being called pet names in general, but I don't expect everyone to know my personal preferences.  If I know them well enough, they know.  If I don't, I just rolls off my back.  Pet names are used liberally where I'm from (not where I am now) & honestly, they are generally kind, well-meaning folks.  They just don't remember your name ;).  If I decided to get all offended everytime I went home to visit I'd stay in a bunch.  I definately think it's regional at least.  Maybe even more pocketed that that.

[Megbo]

I use it both (lightheartedly) condescendingly and genuinely, but only with my immediate family and a few close friends. 

 

In my hometown, it's common for middle-aged or older people to call strangers honey, hon, love, duckie, my dear, my duck, etc., but it is not meant condescendingly. It's just a filler. Younger people tend to stick with miss or sir. 

[Just Kate]

I was the only female in a business meeting once and one of the guys called me honey. Really ticked me off in that setting.

 

(He was a work colleague and it was totally unnecessary).

 

 

That's NOT cool.

 

You should have replied back, "Ok sugarbuns." 

 

 

That would have set me off. Excuse me?

 

Yeah, I was pretty irate. Given the setting, it would have been inappropriate to say anything at that moment. But later that day I called the guy up and told him that I didn't appreciate it at all. He was taken aback by my phone call and he never called me that again. 

[unsinkable]

I'm not reading any replies.

 

I call EVERYONE honey, sugar, sweetie, dear, etc. Male, female, old, young, doesn't matter.

 

I've done it for years, decades even. I never meant it as a put down.

[HRAAB]

My mom called everyone (female) honey, dear or kid.  It was not a put down coming from her.  In fact, it meant you were very special to her.  I've never felt comfortable calling people by those names (except dh or dds).  It used to bother me when someone would call me honey.  It's not that I thought they were putting me down but more that they didn't know me well enough to call me honey.  I'm a fairly private person.  Now that I'm older, it doesn't bother.  Life is too short for me to get bothered over being called honey.  I would think I could tell if someone were using it in a condescending manner.  I've never had that happen, or maybe I'm a little clueless.  Oh well.

 

eta:  just thought of something.  If a man called me honey, that would be different and I don't think I'd like it.  Dh is the only man who can have pet names for me.

[Dmmetler]

I had to have a lesson for my DD that when an older woman (server in a restaurant, etc) calls her {the baby} it's not an insult-these are usually the same people who will tell you "My baby is a doctor in Atlanta!" and similar statements about her adult children (I've had an older woman comment that her baby retired from the school system at age 65). But for a 9 yr old who feels VERY grown up, having a woman ask "And what will the baby be having?", really bothers her.

 

 

[Danestress]

It's not a put down, but it can be condescending.

 

When my father was ill and needed care, I really hated it when the aides called him "honey" or "sweetie," and I know he hated it.  It sort of diminished him. He had been "Mr X" for years, and now, because he was frail, was called these little terms of endearment by women half his age, none of whom meant any harm at all - they were perfectly nice women. 

 

So yes, based on that, I do think that calling a person something overly familiar can be condescending.   One tries not to take offense where none was meant, but I think there is a subtle statement being made.  And in a workplace, I think a woman who is called "Honey" is often going to take that as being condescended too if the men are being called by name.

 

Incidentally, I just want to clarify about the "bless her heart" thing.  Southerners say, "Bless her heart" or "Bless your heart" all the time, and it's almost never in a context of gossip or criticism.  It's just something we say.  If a child falls and scrapes his knee, someone will say, "Oh, bless his heart."  If a woman tells her friend about being stranded on the side of the road, the friend might say, "Oh, bless your heart, you must have been scared." 

 

I see this on the board a lot as a sort of way to insult someone, and of course saying, "Look at that girl dressed so sl@tty, bless her heart" is a way of being ugly and then covering what perhaps is an implication that she's too dumb/badly raised to know any different.  But most of the time, "Bless her/your heart" is just like saying, "Poor thing" or "I'm so sorry for you" and is innocent of any duplicity. 

 

ETA:  Thinking more about this, I guess, "Bless you heart" does have a familiarity that would be inappropriate in some situations.  A child wouldn't normally say, "Bless your heart" to an adult, and you wouldn't normally say, "Bless his heart" about a Senator testifying before a Senate ethics committee.  There is something vaguely condescending about doing so.  If someone does something stupid or makes a critical fashion error, saying, "Bless her heart" does carry a feeling that the person didn't know any better, even if you weren't being petty in thought or word.  But generally speaking, if it would be appropriate to express sympathy in a familiar way, it would be Okay to say, "Bless her heart" and it's something I say all the time, but more to women and children then men, so I guess I should think about that.  If it would be okay to say, "Oh you poor thing" it would probably be ok to say, "bless your heart," but I probably wouldn't say, "Oh you poor thing" to a man who was a good bit older than me or who I didn't feel very familiar and comfortable with.

 

So hmm, maybe I wouldn't appreciate someone saying, "Oh you poor thing" or "bless your heart" or "sweetie" to my elderly Dad.  But in the work place, I would expect someone might say, "Bless your heart" when I spill coffee on my keyboard, but it would be sort of familiar.  So maybe in a way you are right - the kind of situation in which someone might say, "bless your heart" appropriately might also be the kind of situation in which someone might say, "Oh, honey, you are spilling coffee on your silk shirt, let me help you."  And perhaps I wouldn't say either of these things to a man I didn't know, and would be more likely to a woman I didn't know unless I could see she really outranked me.  So see?  Another situation where maybe we have different language toward females than males without even really thinking about it. 

[ElizabethB]

When I was at the Air Force Academy, a female officer was berating a male cadet for calling a female cadet honey. He tried to explain himself a few times but she kept cutting him off. Eventually she stooped for a second and the female cadet piped up, "Ma'am, my given name is Honey."

 

She liked her name even if it caused a situation like this every nice in a while. She actually got a good laugh out of the situation along with the rest of us once the officer ran off. (She basically was dumbfounded and speechless and ran off.)

[shanvan]

I thought there was a thread once asking southerners about 'bless your heart', and I could have sworn a lot of posters responded by saying that much of the time it really is meant to be a slam, but isn't picked up on by newcomers?  Maybe I'm dreaming.  Or, maybe the respondents were not really southerners and were only thinking of the online connotation.  Or, maybe my memory is showing signs of aging.  Could be that. 

[Onceuponatime]

I'm not reading any replies.

 

I call EVERYONE honey, sugar, sweetie, dear, etc. Male, female, old, young, doesn't matter.

 

I've done it for years, decades even. I never meant it as a put down.

Go ahead and read it. It's not that bad. :)

[candicane]

Anyone that I don't know (strangers basically) calling me honey, baby, etc just makes me feel awkward. I'll let them say it, but I still flinch anyways.

[Halftime Hope]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to second us4jones.  In all my life, a significant portion of which was spent either in the south or in the company of southern relatives, I have never personally heard "bless your heart" used condescendingly, in fact that first time I heard of people using it that way was on this board, and it was news to me.  Then again, the people I was surrounded by were not unkind, rude, or intensely competitive social-climbing people, so anything along those lines coming from them would have been a rarity--and that's in spite of the women in my family being spicy, feisty women.

 

Since that time, I have read it in print, but again, never heard it in real life, except when used humorously in mock condescension. It is usually used with real sincerity and heartfelt compassion or even dismay. 

 

The most recent time I heard someone say, "Well, bless her heart!" was after my dd's graduation.  A girl in front of her was wearing very, very high heels, and combined with the steep downward slope of the auditorium, she had a really difficult time walking to her seat, to the point of holding up the line.  (I would have reached down and taken off the stooopid heels, but I'm like that...)  The adults commenting on it afterward used the phrase, but it was with genuine compassion, as in, "Poor girl, she was afraid she'd fall!"

 

 

 

 

  

[73349]

I don't mind if the speaker is a lady obviously older than I am. For everyone else, there's "ma'am" or my name.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I keep thinking of something, maybe a scene in a TV show, where it could be used as part of a putdown in a sense. For example, someone comes out of a dressing room in an awful outfit, and a clerk/friend says "Oh honey, no." So not inherently insulting, but said as part of an insult (or maybe being too honest). 

[mrsrevmeg]

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, I just want to clarify about the "bless her heart" thing.  Southerners say, "Bless her heart" or "Bless your heart" all the time, and it's almost never in a context of gossip or criticism.  It's just something we say.  If a child falls and scrapes his knee, someone will say, "Oh, bless his heart."  If a woman tells her friend about being stranded on the side of the road, the friend might say, "Oh, bless your heart, you must have been scared." 

 

 

I am glad other people have brought this up. I have never heard anyone in my life use that as an insult. The only time I have seen it used that way is on the internet. Maybe it is something that is used different ways in different parts of the the south.

[Pawz4me]

It's not a put down, but it can be condescending.

 

When my father was ill and needed care, I really hated it when the aides called him "honey" or "sweetie," and I know he hated it.  It sort of diminished him. He had been "Mr X" for years, and now, because he was frail, was called these little terms of endearment by women half his age, none of whom meant any harm at all - they were perfectly nice women. 

 

So yes, based on that, I do think that calling a person something overly familiar can be condescending.   One tries not to take offense where none was meant, but I think there is a subtle statement being made.

 

Exactly.

 

I first noticed "honey" and similar words being used inappropriately (IMO) when my tiny, frail mother was elderly.  The young hostesses at a restaurant I occasionally took my mom to would inevitably refer to her as "honey" or "sweetie."  I always wondered if they would use those words to address a tall, distinguished man the same age as my mother. I tended to think not.  Thus IMO it was condescending and patronizing and inappropriate.

 

In our area of the country "ma'am" and "sir" are considered the polite and respectful way to address elders and strangers, which IMO makes it doubly unacceptable when people address someone significantly older than them with honey/dear/sweetie.  It's not like they don't have an acceptable alternative.

 

Regarding "bless his/her heart" -- I usually only hear it used sincerely. The rare times it's used in another way is usually in good humor to point out some minor failing.  Something along the lines of "He didn't think to take his umbrella even though there was a 100% chance of rain.  Bless his heart." to indicate the person isn't organized in his thoughts/tends to be scatterbrained, etc. But it's said with affection or at least the (unspoken) acknowledgement that we all have our failings.  It seems to be mostly an Internet thing to use it in a truly snide, hurtful way.  The people who do it probably don't really understand southern culture.  Similarly, there's a man on another board I belong to who insists that "y'all" is singular.  He's not from the south.  But he thinks he's right.  Bless his heart. ;)

[zoobie]

I thought there was a thread once asking southerners about 'bless your heart', and I could have sworn a lot of posters responded by saying that much of the time it really is meant to be a slam, but isn't picked up on by newcomers? Maybe I'm dreaming. Or, maybe the respondents were not really southerners and were only thinking of the online connotation. Or, maybe my memory is showing signs of aging. Could be that.

It is a nuanced phrase. ;)

 

I tend to use it in two ways: 1) You're being a jacka$$ or moron and there's nothing nice I can say so bless your heart. 2) Sort of a cross between affection and wanting to bash your head against the wall in frustration. Example: one of my cats is a sweet boy and tries hard but is as dumb as a bag of hammers, bless his heart. I don't kick my cat as I'm saying it, but if we have to pull out the washer and dryer because he falls and disconnects the vent hose again, I may snap. Bless his heart. Or the assistant at work who is a really nice lady but totally incompetent. She screws up everything she touches but is sooo nice no one wants to fire her so they keep trying to find things she can do that don't matter... Bless her heart can be used as a sigh or as an under-breath mantra to keep from throttling her.

 

Some people use it meaning oh you poor thing! Genuine verbal hug. All sweet and everything.

 

Some people do both.

[Liz CA]

But you have an established relationship with her, yes?  I wouldn't think a thing about it if my hairdresser did that.  I've known her for years.  But IMO it's quite a bit different when a total stranger does it.

 

Well...I have seen her exactly three times. I recently had to switch hairdressers. I still don't mind. I am fairly certain she is not trying to demean me in any way.

[sunflowerlady]

Doesn't bother me. I am in the South so it is fairly common.

[4ofus]

I've seen those vids before & they're hilarious ;).  But they're caricatures.  They're not documentary evidence of anything.  

 

There's condescending *people* everywhere you go, & everyone can be condescending *sometimes*, but to suspect every usage of 'Bless your heart' & 'honey' & the like is a tragedy.  It's like, assuming the worst of people :(.  I don't get it.  Why would anyone assume the worst of a perfectly nice phrase?  If I hear someone using it in a derogatory fashion, I might make a mental note that this *might* not be someone I would enjoy spending a lot of time with.  But, there's lots of behaviours that might make me think that.  It's not the phrase that's a problem.  It's the person delivering & devaluing it.  

 

In my part of the south, if I'm at a social gathering, I'm going to be polite.  Even if I don't really like you.  I'm still going to speak to you & smile.  You will do the same.  Most everybody there will know we don't really like each other, but we know how to be nice.  

 

I think that's where southern woman 'duplicity' gets it's roots.  But, really, we were just taught to get along in public & deal with our differences in private.  

 

Miranda Lambert got it pretty right. ;)

[Rebel]

In a professional work setting as in being called honey by a colleague, yes, I would be offended.  In every day life though, it is fairly common for my neck of the woods (central Texas), especially in smaller towns, and I am not bothered at all.

[chelsmm]

I'm a nurse, and my older patients (and some younger ones) sometimes call me "honey" or "sweetie".  It doesn't bother me.  I live in the north.

 

I don't call my patients honey.  I think that could be condescending. 

[MrsJewelsRae]

It all depends on tone. Or if I'm in the South. ;) I call my dh and kids honey all the time.