Vaxed kids playing with non-vaxed kids

[8circles]

Eh, there are all sorts of unreasonable people out there.  I've had people horrified that I won't do the MMR any more - since my DS contracted Rubella from it which led to encephalitis - thankfully he doesn't seem to have suffered any permanent damage.  Some people seem to think I'm being selfish and uncaring about any children but my own.  Whatever.  I don't like how the unvaxers are always painted as uneducated selfish idiots.  I'm glad that we are still able to choose.  I can't imagine eliminating playmates based on healthcare choices unless my child was of below-average immunity - that I certainly get.

[Tammi K]

I don't know anyone who is vocal about whether or not their kids are vaxed.  I guess I'd be wary of someone like that, because it is weird to go on about a private matter.  But the fact is, there are plenty of kids who are not vaxed (or up to date on vaxes) for a variety of reasons.  Avoiding those who wear it on their sleeve but associating with everyone else is illogical.

 

This.... :iagree: .  I have 6 kids. I can't recall a single time someone came upon us on a playground and asked about vax status before they allowed their kid to play.  That's just weird to consider that an opening line.

 

(For what it's worth, my oldest was one of the 100,000 in 1 who had a neurologiacl reaction to her dPt shot.(almost 30 years ago - old type vaccine)  The 'high pitch wail' the paperwork lists as a side effect seems like nothing until you hear it coming from your 8 week old infants mouth. Follow that up with 48 hours of almost complete catatonia and you will look at immunizations differently!  Later,  DD#2 was severely allergic to eggs. That counter-indicated MMR which is incubated in eggs.  Some people have serious, well thought out, and doctor approved reasons for avoiding immunizations. )

 

[Excelsior! Academy]

The only non vaxing people I have ever met ever are homeschoolers.  They really are the only ones around here who could even get away with that (barring some evidence that the kid had a bad reaction or might have a bad reaction to a vaccination).

 

 

Not really. Every public school and every private school my eldest has attended, has exemptions from vaccinations. Anybody and their mother can claim, for example, that vaccinations are "against their beliefs" and the school can't argue it.

 

 

It is required here for ps, however you can request a waiver.  They aren't allowed to argue.

 

 

 

This.... :iagree: .  I have 6 kids. I can't recall a single time someone came upon us on a playground and asked about vax status before they allowed their kid to play.  That's just weird to consider that an opening line.

 

(For what it's worth, my oldest was one of the 100,000 in 1 who had a neurologiacl reaction to her dPt shot.(almost 30 years ago - old type vaccine)  The 'high pitch wail' the paperwork lists as a side effect seems like nothing until you hear it coming from your 8 week old infants mouth. Follow that up with 48 hours of almost complete catatonia and you will look at immunizations differently!  Later,  DD#2 was severely allergic to eggs. That counter-indicated MMR which is incubated in eggs.  Some people have serious, well thought out, and doctor approved reasons for avoiding immunizations. )

 

This.  My first dd had a reaction to one of her shots and *I* had a reaction to rubella as an adult.  When it happens to you and yours you think much differently about vaccinations.  Not everyone who skips or delays vaccines is ignorant.

[Unicorn.]

This isn't a vaccination thread; it's a "people is dumb" thread.

I'm a lurker on another mommy-type board. There is a discussion about vaccinations. The majority of the women say that they will not allow their fully vaxed children to play with a child that they know is not vaxed because IT COULD BE DANGEROUS to their children!!
I just shake my head.

 

ETA:  I changed the title of this thread because "idiot" isn't a very nice word and I shouldn't have used it.

 

I wonder if we are in the same town, or if this just happens to be the "dumb" topic of the week.  My local mom's board just had this conversation a few days ago.
 

[Butter]

My unvaxed (against chicken pox - they're vaxed against everything else) kids got chicken pox from playing with a recently vaxed kid.

 

We can't do chicken pox vaccine for medical reasons.  I had chicken pox when I was 5.  And 16.  And 29.  My husband also has had chicken pox 3 times.  We're weird.  My titer after two times still showed non-immunity (it showed I had had chicken pox, but I was not immune because of it like most people will be).  The good news is we'll always get mild cases and according to the doctors we can't get shingles (we'll just get chicken pox again apparently).  The bad news is we can still get chicken pox and the way the vaccine is shed we can get it from a recently vaxed person.  At best the vaccine (in one of my kids) would do nothing (the three that had chicken pox - I was pregnant with the fourth at the time - aren't immune after having chicken pox), but most likely would just cause us to all have chicken pox.  Again.

 

But I don't prevent my kids from playing with recently vaxed other kids (mainly because we wouldn't know... we only learned 6 years ago after the fact when we got chicken pox) even though it is a real and actual threat to us rather than a theoretical threat when playing with unvaxed kids.  I've never stopped my kids from playing with non-vaxed kids either.  I know a lot of non-vaxers, though, and most of them do tend to be the type that take their sick kids out and don't inform you first.  That is just rude (no matter what the illness - even if it's a cold I'd like the chance to decide whether or not I want to expose my kids - for one of my kids a cold is never "just" a cold).

[Incognito]

My unvaxed (against chicken pox - they're vaxed against everything else) kids got chicken pox from playing with a recently vaxed kid.

 

We can't do chicken pox vaccine for medical reasons.  I had chicken pox when I was 5.  And 16.  And 29.  My husband also has had chicken pox 3 times.  We're weird.  My titer after two times still showed non-immunity (it showed I had had chicken pox, but I was not immune because of it like most people will be).  The good news is we'll always get mild cases and according to the doctors we can't get shingles (we'll just get chicken pox again apparently).  The bad news is we can still get chicken pox and the way the vaccine is shed we can get it from a recently vaxed person.  At best the vaccine (in one of my kids) would do nothing (the three that had chicken pox - I was pregnant with the fourth at the time - aren't immune after having chicken pox), but most likely would just cause us to all have chicken pox.  Again.

 

But I don't prevent my kids from playing with recently vaxed other kids (mainly because we wouldn't know... we only learned 6 years ago after the fact when we got chicken pox) even though it is a real and actual threat to us rather than a theoretical threat when playing with unvaxed kids.  I've never stopped my kids from playing with non-vaxed kids either.  I know a lot of non-vaxers, though, and most of them do tend to be the type that take their sick kids out and don't inform you first.  That is just rude (no matter what the illness - even if it's a cold I'd like the chance to decide whether or not I want to expose my kids - for one of my kids a cold is never "just" a cold).

Can I just say that one thing really makes me mad about the chicken pox vaccine - the nurses here say you can't get it from a recently vaccinated person, but the thing is an attenuated virus and it causes lesions!  I had all my kids get the vaccine (I'm pretty sure I got that all done ;) ), but I didn't have my older kids get it when my baby was a few months old.  It might have been a weak case, but they sure can catch it.  So anyways, people here believe the nurses and bring their chicken pox children places with these lesions.  I was so annoyed when I was at a splash park when my baby was small and I'd just said I'd wait on the vaccine for the older kids and someone I know brought their lesioned chicken pox kid playing in the water with my kids.  I talked to the person about it and they said it wasn't contagious (because that is what the nurses tell you).

 

ETA: FWIW, I have my guesses that the nurses do this to have increased exposure in the population in order to lower rates of shingles (or that the powers that be above them have fed them this line in order to do that).  Not a particularly bad idea in some ways, but lies are not good.

[Butter]

Can I just say that one thing really makes me mad about the chicken pox vaccine - the nurses here say you can't get it from a recently vaccinated person, but the thing is an attenuated virus and it causes lesions!

 

Yup.  The doctor specifically asked us when he diagnosed Cameron (the first to get chicken pox) if we knew if he had been exposed to someone with "wild" chicken pox OR to someone recently vaxed.  In that state at least chicken pox was a reportable disease and he said something about needing to put that in the report.  We didn't know.  Upon questioning people we'd been around during the time we estimated he was exposed (based on when the pox appeared), we discovered that it was a recently vaxed little kid at church (the mom felt bad, but really, it was not a big deal and her kid didn't even develop spots that she knew of).  Ani was next to be diagnosed and by then we knew where it had started.

[momto10blessings]

They probably really just don't want their children to associate with people ignorant enough not to vaccinate their children.

Yikes

[Amy in NH]

So here's a question.  If your child has known immunity issues with respect to a rather common, normally mild childhood illness against which you KNOW many families do not vax (and you know many vaxed kids still get), is it your responsibility to tell them about your child's vulnerability, or their responsibility to assume this normally benign virus is dangerous to your child?

 

In the case of chickenpox, I'd say it's 50/50.  People should tell you if their kids have it.  BUT you should also tell them if your child is especially vulnerable.

 

My kids had a friend who was immune compromised.  Because her grandma told me this, I canceled many playdates because my kids had the sniffles or whatever - conditions that would not normally stop me from unleashing my kids on the world.
 

 

Not normally benign.  We aren't talking about the common cold, or there wouldn't even be a vax for it. 

 

People whose kids were recently exposed or actually have the virus should not be out in public.

[Catwoman]

They probably really just don't want their children to associate with people ignorant enough not to vaccinate their children.

Wow, incredibly judgmental much? :glare:

With that in mind, I'm sure there are many people here -- both vaxers and non-vaxers -- who probably wouldn't want their children to associate with people ignorant enough to judge others as ignorant based solely on whether or not they choose to vaccinate their children.

Of course, I don't really mean that, but I wrote it to try to demonstrate just how over-the-top your post came across to me.

I thought your post was outrageous, to the point where I was sure you were joking (until I read your follow-up post.) Now I just think it was very rude and condescending.

[Catwoman]

People whose kids were recently exposed or actually have the virus should not be out in public.

Words to live by. :hurray:

[Loowit]

I have never had anyone ask my children's vaccination status  It is not something I wish to talk about nor do I care to get into an argument about it.  My children have varying degrees of vaccination based on their medical needs.

 

As for vaccination wavers, it has become harder to do in my state.  When my kids were in preschool all I had to do was sign a form stating a personal objection to certain vaccinations.  Now we would be required to get a doctor to sign the form.  It can still be a personal objection (or medical or religious) but the government thinks that we non and/or under vaccinators need a doctor to inform us of all the bad things that can happen if we don't fully vaccinate.

[Joker]

I've never asked anyone, but I did have one friend when dds were little who decided to tell me how they don't vaccinate and are proud of it. Since my dds were toddlers and I already knew of oldest's reaction to the vaccine, we chose not to hang out after that. I've also heard some when out and about discussing how they don't vaccinate. So, I don't ask but some have no problem (and actually seem to like) discussing how they don't. Those I will choose not to hang out with so much, if at all.

[Catwoman]

Yeah I can't say anyone has ever asked me that.

Same here. Who does that???

I would think it was very weird if they did.

[Azalea]

Wow, incredibly judgmental much? :glare:

With that in mind, I'm sure there are many people here -- both vaxers and non-vaxers -- who probably wouldn't want their children to associate with people ignorant enough to judge others as ignorant based solely on whether or not they choose to vaccinate their children.

I think your post was way over-the-top, to the point where I was sure you were joking (until I read your follow-up post.)

 

I have certainly never asked anyone whether they vaccinate. It has never occurred to me. However, it is time to stop mincing words regarding those who choose not to vaccinate for non-known medical reasons. Everyone who can vaccinate should for the good of the community. Those who don't are intentionally jeopardizing the health of the community. 

[Catwoman]

I have certainly never asked anyone whether they vaccinate. It has never occurred to me. However, it is time to stop mincing words regarding those who choose not to vaccinate for non-known medical reasons. Everyone who can vaccinate should for the good of the community. Those who don't are intentionally jeopardizing the health of the community.

And extremist posts like yours are the exact reason why vaccination threads never end well on this forum.

You don't want to have a discussion. You have already appointed yourself judge and jury.

For goodness sake, you're coming right out and calling people ignorant because they disagree with you. Can't you see that some people might be offended by that? :confused:

[Azalea]

Yes and my social pressure here probably won't have any impact.  But social pressure to do the right thing for yourself and the community can move mountains. Perhaps this will plant a seed. Perhaps someone on a playground somewhere will have the guts to speak up about how wrong it is to not vaccinate rather than just smile and nod to get along. 

 

Wow, in 2014 I am being called an extremist for advocating vaccination!!!! I think I have slipped into the twilight zone. 

[Catwoman]

Yes and my social pressure here probably won't have any impact. But social pressure to do the right thing for yourself and the community can move mountains. Perhaps this will plant a seed. Perhaps someone on a playground somewhere will have the guts to speak up about how wrong it is to not vaccinate rather than just smile and nod to get along.

Wow, in 2014 I am being called an extremist for advocating vaccination!!!! I think I have slipped into the twilight zone.

I didn't call you an extremist for advocating vaccination. It was the manner in which you did it that I considered to be extreme.

[Azalea]

What in my post (I think you are referring to #71) was extreme?

[DawnM]

Yeah, I am not in the club either.  I worked full time, bottle and breast fed, put my kids in daycare.

 

We also buy store bought bread and watch TV.

 

:crying:

 

 

Oh crap I guess that leaves me out of your club.  LOL

 

My kids sometimes eat sugary cereals too.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am immuno compromised.  My kids had to be vaccinated for my benefit this year (flu vaccine).  I was not able to vaccinated myself because of my immuno compromised state.  Every day I run the odds.  I am not so bad that I have to live in a bubble or can't go out at all.  But I do wipe down the grocery store carts to limit my exposure to germs.  I wash hands a lot - when I'm out, after I've been out, etc.  I figure those precautions help protect me somewhat from random people germs that are around me that are on surfaces.  At one point when I was really bad, I did wear a mask to protect me from random airborne people germs.  But most of the time I don't need to go that far.  I figure normal American speaking distance is just fine for most normal contact with people.  I do appreciate it if people stay home when they know that they are ill.  It limits the number of more nasty germs that I am exposed to.  I am around children and am exposed to stuff through them but since my kids are older I don't tend to have kids climbing into my lap or getting really close any more.  

 

Now, I am vaccinated for most things out there including small pox (because of my age).  My kids were on a delayed vaccination schedule.  I did that while weighing the risk of vaccination side effects etc. against the risk of exposure to those diseases.  I was fine with those odds.  I don't appreciate the exposure of myself or my kids to ill children whether we are vaccinated or not or whether they are vaccinated or not.  So if you don't vaccinate your kids, keep them home if they are ill.  If you vaccinate your kids, keep them home if they are ill.  Please.  

[Catwoman]

What in my post (I think you are referring to #71) was extreme?

You didn't think your post (#25) was extreme or judgmental?

You don't think that people might get offended by your assertion in another post that non-vaxers are intentionally jeopardizing the health of the community?

I understand that maybe is a hot-button issue for you, and I know you're a nice person and I always enjoy reading your posts, but it really rubbed me the wrong way when you referred to non-vaxers as ignorant. Maybe I over-reacted and if I did, I apologize.

[Tammi K]

They probably really just don't want their children to associate with people ignorant enough not to vaccinate their children.

 

 

What in my post (I think you are referring to #71) was extreme?

Seriously, you don't think that perhaps you are being extremely rude and insensitive to the people who made the decision to not immunize for medical reasons. There are many people who have had children who reacted badly to a vaccination and chose, with doctor blessing, to forgo future immunizations. You've just painted everyone with the same broad brush and called us all ignorant.

 

Have you ever seen a child react to a dPt shot with temps of a 105 and convulsions? Have you ever heard the 'high pitch wail' the literature mentions? Have you ever had you child scream for 24 hours and then lay, completely unresponsive for days? Have you ever seen your own doctor scared because he never observed a reaction like that?

 

After you have an experience like that, then you can call me ignorant because I chose to follow the doctor's recommendation and not continue.

[Azalea]

Seriously, you don't think that perhaps you are being extremely rude and insensitive to the people who made the decision to not immunize for medical reasons. There are many people who have had children who reacted badly to a vaccination and chose, with doctor blessing, to forgo future immunizations. You've just painted everyone with the same broad brush and called us all ignorant.

 

Have you ever seen a child react to a dPt shot with temps of a 105 and convulsions? Have you ever heard the 'high pitch wail' the literature mentions? Have you ever had you child scream for 24 hours and then lay, completely unresponsive for days? Have you ever seen your own doctor scared because he never observed a reaction like that?

 

After you have an experience like that, then you can call me ignorant because I chose to follow the doctor's recommendation and not continue.

 

I clearly said for non-known medical reasons.

[Tammi K]

I clearly said for non-known medical reasons.

 

Not in post #25 you didn't. I didn't read every post after that, but the post I quoted ( #25 ) offered no exclusions. Perhaps you could edit that post for clarity.

[Joker]

Azalea did say in a follow up post that #25 was partly because of the original OP. The OP herself said her original title wasn't nice so she changed it.

[nmoira]

C'mon, she made it clear what she was talking about.

 

Fwiw, I totally agree with what Azalea has  said, although I don't normally say it - precisely because it gets this kind of finger wagging reaction.

 

If you don't have a genuine medical reason to not vaccinate, you are contributing to a weakening of herd immunity. That immunity protects people with chronic illness, babies, the elderly, children and adults going through cancer treatment, people who can't be immunised...

 

I don't think vaccination is entirely without risk. In the absence of known medical issues that  raise that risk to unacceptable levels in an individual, well...it's your choice whether to contribute to a healthy community via vaccination or not.

 

This. One of the reasons we vax (and as adult get boosters, particularly pertussis) is to help protect those who can't.

[Azalea]

You didn't think your post (#25) was extreme or judgmental?

You don't think that people might get offended by your assertion in another post that non-vaxers are intentionally jeopardizing the health of the community?

I understand that maybe is a hot-button issue for you, and I know you're a nice person and I always enjoy reading your posts, but it really rubbed me the wrong way when you referred to non-vaxers as ignorant. Maybe I over-reacted and if I did, I apologize.

 

I didn't say that I would discriminate against people who don't vaccinate. I was proposing a possible reason why people discriminate. Very plain and very simple and there was no intent beyond that. I really didn't expect this to become heated. 

 

By the way I love cats and I don't have any due to my daughters allergies. However, there are breeds of cats (including Siberian) that apparently produce far less allergens. I hope to be a cat woman someday. 

 

As far as my own personal experience recently regarding vaccinations. My husband was intending to have extensive overseas travel and went to his physician for a physical and to see if he needed vaccines. The physician did not suggest Tdap (I think that's the correct acronym for the adult version of the vaccine that includes pertussis - whooping cough). We did not know at that time that adults need booster shots  - and to repeat my husband had specifically asked his physician about vaccines. My husband went on his travels and worked with a lady who was later diagnosed with whooping cough. My husband contracted what we think was whooping cough, as he broke a rib from coughing, however the test to determine this is quite invasive and the docs don't like to administer the procedure. And also they say that results from the tests can be inconclusive after the patient has started treatment. I also got a bad case of this cough. My two youngest got milder cases. My oldest did not get this as she had recently had her booster. We feel very bad that my husband flew on a plane with this illness and can only hope that no one was hurt.

[JustEm]

But what of the people who don't want to risk their own child's health for the greater good. Vaccines can ruins your life, ask the people who received the swine flu vaccine a few years back who are now narcoleptic. There is also enough anecdotal evidence for people to be hesitant to risk their child's life or well being. My first responsibility is to my family not my community and I can certainly make an educated decision to not vaccinate. It would be my responsibility to my community to take extra precaution if my child caught something or if a known outbreak was in the area but not my responsibility to the community to vaccinate.

Disclaimer: all my children are fully vaccinated.

C'mon, she made it clear what she was talking about.

Fwiw, I totally agree with what Azalea has said, although I don't normally say it - precisely because it gets this kind of finger wagging reaction.

If you don't have a genuine medical reason to not vaccinate, you are contributing to a weakening of herd immunity. That immunity protects people with chronic illness, babies, the elderly, children and adults going through cancer treatment, people who can't be immunised...

I don't think vaccination is entirely without risk. In the absence of known medical issues that raise that risk to unacceptable levels in an individual, well...it's your choice whether to contribute to a healthy community via vaccination or not.

[Dory]

I think that many people are scared of the vaccines from seeing what it does to other people that they know. If you have watched your friends kid get his first shot and end up convulsing and screaming, would you really feel calm about trying it out yourself? They might not have any real reason to avoid it, but fear is a strong motivator. What if that happens to be your kid too? How can you be sure before hand that you aren't going to damage your baby?

 

They might be over reacting, but I don't really blame them. I don't think it's fair to judge someone elses decisions unless you really know all their reasons. There will be a few nut cases in every batch of people on the globe and on ever side of every single argument, but you can't just brush everyone with a broad brush. You don't know what is going on in their lives. Calling them ignorant, without all the facts, is pretty nasty.

 

[Ameena]

FWIW, We are a non-vax family. Due to my immune system issues, it's contraindicated for either DD or I to get anything live virus {or even inactivated virus}. Add in no gelatin / pork products {religious issues}, metal allergies {they use nickel / alumimum to help vaxes work better}, Family issues with the DPT shot {I too, was one of  the "rare" cases of the DPT wail in the 80's. And so were both my neice & nephew in 2002 & 2004 respectively so it's not just the "old DPT" shot that does it} and grain allergies {did you know that most vaccines contain Brewers yeast grown on either Oat or Wheat?} - it was just easier to not do any. My dd has one of the strongest immune systems I've ever seen, even though genetically hers should be cr*p.

 

What ticks me off is folks who will bring their just vaxed kid {as in either straight from the Dr's office, or up to a week afterwards} to the park/playgroun/mcdonalds/homeschool group WITHOUT saying anything. 99% of the time I spot the bandaid & ask and folks are like oh yeah they just had them yesterday. Geez folks - read the side effects. Most of the live virus stuff {and even some of the inactiveated} SHED. Especially true here in military city - I have friends who are reserves. Every single time I have to ask - did you get any shots while on training for the past couple of weeks. Half the time the answer is "oh yeah I got a bunch but I dunno what they were". Most of the military stuff sheds like crazy. Even if we did vax, I still don't want to expose my family to that.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

But what of the people who don't want to risk their own child's health for the greater good. Vaccines can ruins your life, ask the people who received the swine flu vaccine a few years back who are now narcoleptic. There is also enough anecdotal evidence for people to be hesitant to risk their child's life or well being. My first responsibility is to my family not my community and I can certainly make an educated decision to not vaccinate. It would be my responsibility to my community to take extra precaution if my child caught something or if a known outbreak was in the area but not my responsibility to the community to vaccinate.

Disclaimer: all my children are fully vaccinated.
 

 

If someone is basing their decisions on anecdotal evidence, then no, I doubt they are informed enough to be making an "educated" decision about vaccinations.

[Dmmetler]

My DD has vaccine titers done regularly because she's often with a non-vaccinated for medical reasons child. By checking DD's immunity levels and revaccinating her based on her immunities, not the number of years, it protects both kids-her friend, because DD is less likely to pick up a low grade infection without realizing it due to her immunity dropping, and DD, because that way if her friend is exposed, but not symptomatic yet, DD is protected. It's actually led, for DD, to a longer, more spread out immunization schedule, because she didn't need all the ones expected at age 5 at the same time, but instead was reimmunized for them between 5-7, but had the paperwork to indicate that she was immune.

We don't see her friend for several weeks after any immunization-too much risk to the other child,

[HS Mom in NC]

I had a neighbor whose kid was fully vaccinated for Rubella and then came down with it at about age 8 or 9.  She couldn't walk for a few days because of it and the pediatrican told her mom not to worry because odds were slim it would do her permenant damage and generations ago people came down with it all the time and survived.  I always wonder what that same ped would've said about it if the child was younger, had no symptoms and the mother said she was considering not vaccinating her.

[lovinmyboys]

My third child was exposed to whooping cough when he was born. His unvaxed cousins were diagnosed with it when he was 6 days old...after they had visited him several times. Thankfully he didn't get it. It really worried me though. So, when I had my 4th, we did not do any homeschooling activity and we didn't go to church for his first year. I don't know any IRL homeschoolers who I know are vaccinated. I am sure there is no herd immunity in the homeschooling groups here (or the church we attended at the time). I wasn't vocal about it-we just took a year off from socializing with them. No, I didn't ask any random person, but I do know the ones we were close to were vaxxed. All the adults close to us got flu and pertussis vaccines that year. I no longer worry about it as my youngest is two, all are fully vaccinated, and all are healthy. My husband and I stay up to date on vaccines to protect newborns and others who are most at risk.

I do think it is sad that diseases that were once wiped out will likely come back in our children's lifetimes. It seems more and more people are choosing to not vaccinate (not for medical reasons) and nothing will change their minds.

[FaithManor]

I think the bigger issue than lower vaccine rates is the mutation of viruses...in the very near future, I think that these vaccines will have much lower effectiveness rates due the uncanny ability of microbes to pursue self preservation. Research is currently unable to stay ahead of that game!

That said, immune disease, and allergies are on the rise so vaccine producers need to adapt the formulas at a much faster pace then they currently are. In my itty, bitty community of 200 people, I know nine kids who can't be vaccinated for a variety of diseases due to egg and grain allergies. Hypollergenic formulas are desperately needed and they need to be cheap enough that the taxpayers can afford to provide them. New formulations always cost an absolute bundle so you know therewill be doctors and health departments thatdo not stock them, insurance companies thatwon't pay for them, and parents that can't afford them.

Shoot, when ds had a tetnus shot in the pediatician's office, not dtap just tetnus, they billed our insurance $750.00 plus the office call! So something will need to be done about getting the price down on vaccines fo children with multiple allergies.

[nmoira]

I had a neighbor whose kid was fully vaccinated for Rubella and then came down with it at about age 8 or 9.  She couldn't walk for a few days because of it and the pediatrican told her mom not to worry because odds were slim it would do her permenant damage and generations ago people came down with it all the time and survived.  I always wonder what that same ped would've said about it if the child was younger, had no symptoms and the mother said she was considering not vaccinating her.

 

Rubella is usually a mild disease, except for fetuses. It can cause spontaneous abortion and birth defects. Congenital Rubella Syndrome affects somewhere between 50-90% of first trimester infections, a not inconsiderable number.

 

From: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/rubella

 

 

From 1964-1965, before the development of a vaccine against the disease, a rubella epidemic swept the United States. During that short period there were 12.5 million cases of rubella. Twenty thousand children were born with CRS: 11,000 were deaf, 3,500 blind, and 1,800 mentally retarded. There were 2,100 neonatal deaths and more than 11,000 abortions – some a spontaneous result of rubella infection in the mother, and others performed surgically after women were informed of the serious risks of rubella exposure during their pregnancy.

 

[Catwoman]

As far as my own personal experience recently regarding vaccinations. My husband was intending to have extensive overseas travel and went to his physician for a physical and to see if he needed vaccines. The physician did not suggest Tdap (I think that's the correct acronym for the adult version of the vaccine that includes pertussis - whooping cough). We did not know at that time that adults need booster shots - and to repeat my husband had specifically asked his physician about vaccines. My husband went on his travels and worked with a lady who was later diagnosed with whooping cough. My husband contracted what we think was whooping cough, as he broke a rib from coughing, however the test to determine this is quite invasive and the docs don't like to administer the procedure. And also they say that results from the tests can be inconclusive after the patient has started treatment. I also got a bad case of this cough. My two youngest got milder cases. My oldest did not get this as she had recently had her booster. We feel very bad that my husband flew on a plane with this illness and can only hope that no one was hurt.

I'm sorry to hear about your family's experience with whooping cough. My ds's best friend's family had it last year, and it seemed to take forever to finally go away -- and everyone in the family had been vaccinated. The oldest boy, in particular, was really miserable.

Please don't feel badly that your dh was on a plane with the illness -- at the time, he had no way of knowing that he was contagious with whooping cough!

After an experience like that, I can understand being adamant about vaccines.

[Harriet Vane]

I have certainly never asked anyone whether they vaccinate. It has never occurred to me. However, it is time to stop mincing words regarding those who choose not to vaccinate for non-known medical reasons. Everyone who can vaccinate should for the good of the community. Those who don't are intentionally jeopardizing the health of the community. 

 

This, as well as your other posts, are unbelievably insensitive and rude. It is truly offensive that you would assume that those who have a different opinion than yours are ignorant or intentionally hurting others.

 

I have chosen to vaccinate my children for only certain diseases and not others.

 

I made my choices based on extensive research. Real research. Not anecdotes. I read medical journals and books from the library. I interviewed two (2) pro-vaccination doctors extensively, for more than an hour each. I also spent more than an hour discussing the subject with the wife of one of those doctors--she has a Ph.D. in Immunology. I chewed over this issue, reading and researching, for more than a year. There is nothing ignorant about the process I used to come to my decisions.

[Amy in NH]

Rubella is usually a mild disease, except for fetuses. It can cause spontaneous abortion and birth defects. Congenital Rubella Syndrome affects somewhere between 50-90% of first trimester infections, a not inconsiderable number.

 

From: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/rubella

 

My sister used to work with an adult who was affected by congenital rubella.  He was like a giant walking infant.

[IfIOnly]

But what of the people who don't want to risk their own child's health for the greater good. Vaccines can ruins your life, ask the people who received the swine flu vaccine a few years back who are now narcoleptic. There is also enough anecdotal evidence for people to be hesitant to risk their child's life or well being. My first responsibility is to my family not my community and I can certainly make an educated decision to not vaccinate. It would be my responsibility to my community to take extra precaution if my child caught something or if a known outbreak was in the area but not my responsibility to the community to vaccinate.

Disclaimer: all my children are fully vaccinated.
 

Yes

 

The DTP vaccine insert itself lists Autism and SIDS as frequently reported and serious side effects.  

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura,SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. 

 

Page 11: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm101580.pdf

 

 

Whilst the mainstream medical profession deny the link between autism and the triple shot of measles, mumps and rubella, there have been many who have argued to the contrary. Statistics show the increases in autism correlate alarmingly with the introduction and uptake of the MMR vaccine. And Now in an Italian court, there has been a landmark ruling for a child whose parents claim that his autism was triggered by MMR.

 

The parents of Valentino Bocca have been awarded 112,000 Euro to be paid by the Italian ministry of health. They are now seeking a further 800,000 Euro in a civil case. The story is a tragic one, Valentino, developing normally, was given the shot at 14 months and started to suffer from diarrhea, lost interest in food and within a few days lost the ability to use his spoon. Worse was soon to come when he began to be restless at night, screaming in pain for hours. It was later found that he was suffering from a painful bowel condition that is common in autistic children. With an adjusted diet of no wheat or milk, he was able to sleep but the autism symptoms continued, and even at the age of nine, he still does not speak.

The case featured three expert witnesses that concurred that "barring preexisting conditions there was a reasonable scientific probability that the MMR jab had triggered Valantino's condition." Judge Lucio Ardigo agreed that it was "conclusively established" that Valentino had suffered from an "autistic disorder associated with medium cognitive delay" and his illness, was linked to receiving the shot. The Italian shot has the same ingredients as the one used in the UK and US.

 

In the US over 5000 families are known to the mainstream media as believing that the MMR shot has triggered autism in their children, and the real figure could be much higher. Court rulings against the MMR include a 90,000 GBP (Great British Pound) payout for brain damage to a boy called Robert Fletcher, and a $1.5 million payout for Hannah Poling who received MMR and six other vaccinations in one day and then developed autism.

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/036255_MMR_autism_court_case.html

 

[SKL]

So I have a question.  Those of you who don't want your kids playing with kids of parents who don't vax for ideological reasons:  what about kids who are not vaxed for medical reasons?  Are they somehow safer to hang out with because they have a "good excuse" to be unvaxed?

 

As for those who take their kids out to expose others after a vaccination: how are they supposed to know that is unsafe?  I've never had a doctor or any PSA tell me that.  The only place I ever hear that is in discussions about why vaccinations are bad.  If you're going to be angry at someone about exposure to kids who just got vaccinated, it makes more sense to direct the anger at the professionals who have decided that ignorance is better (because more people will vaccinate if they don't know about the risks).

[Ameena]

*snip*

 

As for those who take their kids out to expose others after a vaccination: how are they supposed to know that is unsafe?  I've never had a doctor or any PSA tell me that.  The only place I ever hear that is in discussions about why vaccinations are bad.  If you're going to be angry at someone about exposure to kids who just got vaccinated, it makes more sense to direct the anger at the professionals who have decided that ignorance is better (because more people will vaccinate if they don't know about the risks).

 

Well, in a perfect world Dr's would tell you. However, I'm pretty sure avoiding those with suppressed immune systems, etc is listed on the handout for most vaccines that is supposed to be given PRIOR to getting the shot. However since we don't vax, I don't know for sure. I've heard a lot of Dr's don't give the handouts as all, even though it is recommended / required by law.

 

To me it's also common sense too, but maybe that's just me.
 

[StaceyinLA]

Because they work for most people, just not all, and you can't be sure whether or not our child is one of the few where they don't. That's the idea behind herd immunity.

You also can't be sure whether your child is one that will have a bad reaction to vaccines either. It can and does happen, and I just don't know how it's fair for my (meaning anyone's) child to have a potentially deadly vaccine reaction to protect someone else's child from an illness.

If they were 100% without risk it would be one thing, but for some the vaccine itself is more harmful than the possibility of catching the disease (especially since there's a 25% chance you'll catch it anyway).

And btw, my kids were selectively vaccinated as teens, and we have ALL been given Tdap because of the grandkids, but I am wary of the sheer volume of vaccines given to infants.

[FaithManor]

Well, in a perfect world Dr's would tell you. However, I'm pretty sure avoiding those with suppressed immune systems, etc is listed on the handout for most vaccines that is supposed to be given PRIOR to getting the shot. However since we don't vax, I don't know for sure. I've heard a lot of Dr's don't give the handouts as all, even though it is recommended / required by law.

To me it's also common sense too, but maybe that's just me.

Yah, the require by law thing is a joke. I've had both heath department nurses and pediatricians get very perturbe with me for not only asking forthe handouts when they were nowhere to be found, but....now wait for it people....actually refusing to sign the authorization until I had read them! Boy, if looks could kill, I'd be dead over that! But, ds's endocrinologist thinks ii am an a.okay. mom for first wnting to read the literature before committing to treatment. I like that guy a lot!!! Lol

[StaceyinLA]

Yes and my social pressure here probably won't have any impact. But social pressure to do the right thing for yourself and the community can move mountains. Perhaps this will plant a seed. Perhaps someone on a playground somewhere will have the guts to speak up about how wrong it is to not vaccinate rather than just smile and nod to get along.

Wow, in 2014 I am being called an extremist for advocating vaccination!!!! I think I have slipped into the twilight zone.

Your social pressure wouldn't affect my decisions. I don't think any parent has to put the community's needs above the needs of their own child. Until vaccines are proven to be 100% safe, I'll not judge a person's choice to forego any or all of them. Reactions are real, and can be just as life-threatening or life-altering as the diseases themselves.

[SKL]

Yeah, in my experience, the standard procedure is to give the shots first and then *maybe* give out the small print, which probably most people don't read unless they see their kid having a reaction to the shot.  If you're lucky they wait for the parent's OK before they give the shot.

[Joker]

Yeah, in my experience, the standard procedure is to give the shots first and then *maybe* give out the small print, which probably most people don't read unless they see their kid having a reaction to the shot.  If you're lucky they wait for the parent's OK before they give the shot.

 

My dds have had vaccines in four different states spread out all over the country and it has always been the same. They have given us the handouts, I have signed a form, and then the shots. It has never been any different. I'm not discounting what you are saying, but from what I've seen it is not the norm for them not to follow procedures.

[StaceyinLA]

I have been with my stepson and his son for multiple vax visits; they were never given the handouts. Dsgs was also given a rotavirus vax when he had a stomach bug, and wound up with bloody diarrhea for THREE WEEKS. Handout specifically states NOT to give the vax if a child has any loose stool. The doctors do NOT always follow the guidelines.

[SKL]

I have never been asked to sign anything at the doc's office except for the credit card receipt.  :/