Angry parent says I made her daughter cry in volunteer class..???

[Okra]

I did not read all the replies, but here's my 2 cents. You were probably in the right, but that being said, even still, you (accidentally) offended this other family. Over the years I've come to see the truth in the verse that says, "a soft answer turns away wrath" and I really think that applies in this situation. If it were me, I would simply humble myself, email the mom and say something like, "I'm so sorry I upset you and your daughter. That was never my intention. I hope you'll forgive me." then at the next meeting, I would again just reiterate the same thing. No giving excuses or explaining your side, just apologize and let it go. And in the future, use a softer tone of voice just in case! :) hugs, that is not a fun place to be in!

 

:iagree: 

 

YES, I do actually think you are probably in the right.  But, more importantly than being right is the relationships with this mom and the other mom.  It's also being totally truthful if you say that you had no intention of scaring this child.  Apologies, and don't bring it up again.  Do not apologize and then say, ".....but if you daughter had been cleaning up......."  Think more about the future relationships than whether you are "right"

[QuirkyKapers]

Not true. My dd is far to worried about further embarrassing herself to cry in public. She holds it in--if you do not know her well you would just see a sort of blank stare on her face. The outer expression of her inner crumbling doesn't happen until she is somewhere she feels safe.

Yep!  This is how I was as a kid.  Also, I can still be this way as an adult.  I really don't like crying in front of people.  It happens and I deal, but I still don't like it.  Every kid is so different.  I don't know, maybe if you are introverted you tend to hold it in and if you are extroverted, you let loose more.  Hmm...

[mytwomonkeys]

I have a child (or 3) who would likely cry if she was spoken to sternly as well. That is not the other person's problem! Crying is ok. Learning to bounce back and suck it up is important. I don't know if the child was being a snot or if she's simply sensitive, but she needs to learn how to handle correction- even sharp correction- without crying or complaining, and a class like this is a great time to do it. It's much better to learn this now, when she's 7, than have people tiptoe around her and not learn it until she's 12 or 18. Practice makes perfect. I'm not for meanness, cruelty, or harshness, but a sharp word when you are off task, IMO, shouldn't be surprising.

 

I may sound harsher than I really feel, but I'm surprised that the fact that she cried is seen as somehow the OP's fault or responsibility. She's 7...it's normal.

1,000 likes

[shawthorne44]

 

 

I don't think Mrs. Snowflake is doing her daughter any favors, and I shudder to think what this kid will be like in four short years when she hits her teens.  I

 

I don't like the show, but my parents do, so when I visit them I see Cops on TV.  It is amazing how often the criminals being arrested say the same things that kids with bad parents say to get out of trouble.  Only it doesn't work on the cops.  

[MollyAnn]

I have been a GS leader for 9 years and been in this situation. You did nothing wrong and please do not apologize to anyone for anything.

If I had been the parent in this situation I would have been irritated with my child that her behavior led to the need of her being spoken to.

 

I can see why the parent went the director. Whatever the policy is, human nature is human nature and the parent did not want confrontation. Especially when she knows her daughter was in the wrong.

It is unreasonable to expect that you wouldn't contact the parent over this. When I had a problem parent who complained to council about me, you can be sure I contacted her.

[myfunnybunch]

:grouphug: First, of all, I would be really upset in your shoes.

 

And, I read your post thinking that it doesn't really have to be black or white. I'm not sure either of you needs to characterized as nuts, and the other one in the right. It reads to me more like a misunderstanding that spiraled out of control.

 

The children should all have followed directions the first time. That's frustrating, and the girl really should have stopped coloring and drawing when asked.

 

And, it is possible that the daughter was so absorbed in her drawing that she truly didn't hear the direction or notice the other girls get up. she might have genuinely been startled by your firmness. This is not to excuse her lack of response, simply to point out that her emotional reaction (talking to her mom) might have reflected her very real reaction, and it could very well have seemed completely out of the blue for her if she wasn't aware of the other directions. Or she knew what she was supposed to do and was still startled by your reaction because she's not usually spoken to like that.

 

If the mom was enjoying her conversation with her friend, she may not have realized that there was a need for some backup in the first place, and not have realized that her daughter wasn't complying. If the first thing she heard was your firm command, she may very well have wanted to find out what happened instead of reacting in the moment, which is wise. (Think about this: How might you react if you heard your child spoken to like a 3 y.o. by an adult neither of you know well. And when you ask, your daughter tells how it felt to her, that she was yelled at out of the blue.)

 

She should have brought the matter to you, but because the incident was startling to her daughter, and perhaps to her, and because she doesn't yet know you, she might not have felt comfortable approaching you, not knowing how you'd react. So she approached the director.

 

While I don't believe that you did anything wrong with the email, I can certainly understand the director's desire to help mediate the conflict once it was brought to her, especially if she doesn't know you well. What starts out as a minor misunderstanding has the potential to spiral out of control and fracture organizations.

 

When there's a conflict it's so easy to focus on what others did wrong. It might be more helpful to focus on how to resolve the conflict, assuming good intent on the part of the others. :grouphug: I hope you understand this is said very kindly. I don't blame you, but I'm not sure it's helpful to blame all of the others either.

 

Cat

[bolt.]

I imagine that "when she is is a teen" it might be just as likely that this girl will ( a ) like to finish her work, putting off snacks, meals, recreation or bed time in order to complete assignments to her own satisfaction, ( b ) have tender feelings, and often find a private space to have a good cry after a situation that involved even mild conflict.

 

I don't see why this should horrify anyone, and I don't see why she should be roundly insulted and called a "snowflake" because of a tendency to be both a finisher and a cryer.

 

[Rant:] She's a little girl and deserves better from the adults who spend time in her groups. You'd think people would be trying to bring out the best in children at group like that... instead we see the worst possible interpretation of her behaviour, and prophesies of future difficulty and failure: what's the point of that? Is it mentorship? Discipleship? Friendship? Leadership? Did I miss a memo that redefined these terms? I suppose she might become a terror, but there's no sense in predicting the future at all, and if you must, why not try to be positive? [End rant]

 

Plus, the idea that kids should instantly drop anything (finished or unfinished) and tidy it up immediately upon instruction fades fairly quickly after age 10 or so, when parents start respecting what kids are working on (and therefore begin to respect a child's focus and work ethic towards their projects).

[catz]

I have a child (or 3) who would likely cry if she was spoken to sternly as well. That is not the other person's problem! Crying is ok. Learning to bounce back and suck it up is important. I don't know if the child was being a snot or if she's simply sensitive, but she needs to learn how to handle correction- even sharp correction- without crying or complaining, and a class like this is a great time to do it. It's much better to learn this now, when she's 7, than have people tiptoe around her and not learn it until she's 12 or 18. Practice makes perfect. I'm not for meanness, cruelty, or harshness, but a sharp word when you are off task, IMO, shouldn't be surprising.

 

I may sound harsher than I really feel, but I'm surprised that the fact that she cried is seen as somehow the OP's fault or responsibility. She's 7...it's normal.

I kind of feel this way. I tell my kids if you're old enough to want to be part of an organized activity, you need to roll with the personality of the leader assuming this is a reasonable, trusted adult. I've reminded my kids sometimes adults make mistakes and get crabby too. It happens to everyone. Young kids do cry. It happens. I don't think making a huge deal of it is at all helpful.

 

This fall a TEEN (like 15) had his mommy make a huge stink at our co-op because he was reprimanded by a volunteer adult for breaking rules (that he evidently didn't know existed - parents responsibility for letting kids understand how a drop off co-op work). At 15, I will feel like I've failed if my kids think I need to save them from something like this. This family dropped out of co-op. I feel like if you never want your child corrected by another adult, and in particular a volunteer adult, don't put your kids in drop off activities.

 

I totally usually take the sweetness and light approach to these kind of situations, but a parent that was standing right there that immediately went over my head, I would not take kindly to. If she would have pulled you aside and said something like "I want you to know Suzy if just very sensitive to raised voices", I would apologize and say thank you for letting me know! It's unfair to assume a new volunteer is going to magically understand every personality in the room. If her child has a real issue with raised voices or noise, the OP should have been notified ahead of time. And I also think it's extremely rude she was chatting with another parent while you were trying to finish up.

 

Anyway, can't say what the right thing is. I definitely wouldn't be scared away from this group. Throwing a bible verse back at them likely wasn't helpful either. If this family comes back, I would probably try to connect with the mom and the kid. But assuming you're a volunteer, I can totally see why you would be turned off. Stuff like this is the exact reason I've become extremely picky about what i will volunteer for.

 

I have been volunteering in Sunday school forever and I have found it helpful in groups of kids to tell them at the beginning of every week the order of events. I've also found it helpful to have a very simple set of rules on the wall about expectations. Our rules are something like 1 - respect whoever is speaking. Raise hand if you have something to say 2 - respect the space. We use things as they are intended to be use and we clean up our space at the end. 3 - you are free to make your own choices as long as they don't negatively affect the group. And then I point repeatedly at those rules. It helps me from losing it too. :D

[Soror]

I try to teach my kids to be flexible and get along with outside leaders and teachers but when I am a teacher myself I try to be respectful of the different personalities in my group as well. I don't think it has to be either but both.

[poppy]

I imagine that "when she is is a teen" it might be just as likely that this girl will ( a ) like to finish her work, putting off snacks, meals, recreation or bed time in order to complete assignments to her own satisfaction, ( b ) have tender feelings, and often find a private space to have a good cry after a situation that involved even mild conflict.

 

I don't see why this should horrify anyone, and I don't see why she should be roundly insulted and called a "snowflake" because of a tendency to be both a finisher and a cryer.

 

[Rant:] She's a little girl and deserves better from the adults who spend time in her groups. You'd think people would be trying to bring out the best in children at group like that... instead we see the worst possible interpretation of her behaviour, and prophesies of future difficulty and failure: what's the point of that? Is it mentorship? Discipleship? Friendship? Leadership? Did I miss a memo that redefined these terms? I suppose she might become a terror, but there's no sense in predicting the future at all, and if you must, why not try to be positive? [End rant]

 

Plus, the idea that kids should instantly drop anything (finished or unfinished) and tidy it up immediately upon instruction fades fairly quickly after age 10 or so, when parents start respecting what kids are working on (and therefore begin to respect a child's focus and work ethic towards their projects).

 

It's not really about the girl, it's about how her mom responded to the girl. "Snowflake" is not an insult aimed a a child, it is a criticism of a parenting technique.

 

I'll also add, I'm a Scout leader too, and we really don't have the luxury to let all the kids finish at their own pace.  It's not about work ethic, it's also about finishing up so we can move on to the next activity and be finished in time for parent pickup (and sometimes being kicked out of our meeting space for the next group).

[8circles]

Bolt, I really appreciate your explanations. I was this girl (although my parents were never at mtgs nor would they have supported me in this or any other scenario). I feel bad for the giro who is being so (unfairly,IMO) criticized. I think the other mom handled it poorly but it so did the OP.

 

I imagine that "when she is is a teen" it might be just as likely that this girl will ( a ) like to finish her work, putting off snacks, meals, recreation or bed time in order to complete assignments to her own satisfaction, ( b ) have tender feelings, and often find a private space to have a good cry after a situation that involved even mild conflict.

 

I don't see why this should horrify anyone, and I don't see why she should be roundly insulted and called a "snowflake" because of a tendency to be both a finisher and a cryer.

 

[Rant:] She's a little girl and deserves better from the adults who spend time in her groups. You'd think people would be trying to bring out the best in children at group like that... instead we see the worst possible interpretation of her behaviour, and prophesies of future difficulty and failure: what's the point of that? Is it mentorship? Discipleship? Friendship? Leadership? Did I miss a memo that redefined these terms? I suppose she might become a terror, but there's no sense in predicting the future at all, and if you must, why not try to be positive? [End rant]

 

Plus, the idea that kids should instantly drop anything (finished or unfinished) and tidy it up immediately upon instruction fades fairly quickly after age 10 or so, when parents start respecting what kids are working on (and therefore begin to respect a child's focus and work ethic towards their projects).

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

My Second Grade teacher was throwing an eraser ( Board eraser) at a boy and he ducked so guess who got hit in the head!!  Do you even think my mom came to the school to complain?  She was a militant teacher but guess what?  She taught me alot and I am so glad I had her.                                                                                            

 

I do understand that some girls and boys are drama fiends... so I hope you can let it go and find your place.  You do need support too.  You may need a "helper". :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

I tend to agree with the OP that the girl was probably testing the OP for two reasons, one the OP knows the girl can follow directions when she wants to, also the age on 9 is often when I see real testing of authority in SS and in coop. For both boys and girls and I notice that kids with parents who will back them up tend to push harder. That is just a developmental issue and I don't get offended over it with a child. But I do not tolerate adults treating a volunteer like a paid servant. An adult should do nothing but respect a volunteer who is serving their children unless the volunteer is doing something genuinely wrong. Getting a child to clean up in a timely manner is just not wrong.

 

Part of the experience of attending something like this if for a child to get used to different leadership styles. The fact that the mother did not talk to the dd, but complained is not cool in my book. I didn't like lots of scout leadership that my ds had. Only once did I complain (a case of serious dishonesty by a paid scout leader who possibly had some seriously ugly motives) other than that I talked my ds though some tough interactions, a few that were really unfair, but that he needed to learn to deal with. A side effect of that is that although my ds is an Eagle scout with two years of college at the age of 18 he does not want to join the military because he knows that you are at the mercy of your leadership and must do what they want even when you feel they are wrong. I am glad he is able to make a good choice for himself based on personal experience. I do feel sorry for a child that will have to learn about different leadership styles when they are on their own without a parent to cushion them.

[GeorgiaGirl160]

I imagine that "when she is is a teen" it might be just as likely that this girl will ( a ) like to finish her work, putting off snacks, meals, recreation or bed time in order to complete assignments to her own satisfaction, ( b ) have tender feelings, and often find a private space to have a good cry after a situation that involved even mild conflict.

 

I don't see why this should horrify anyone, and I don't see why she should be roundly insulted and called a "snowflake" because of a tendency to be both a finisher and a cryer.

 

[Rant:] She's a little girl and deserves better from the adults who spend time in her groups. You'd think people would be trying to bring out the best in children at group like that... instead we see the worst possible interpretation of her behaviour, and prophesies of future difficulty and failure: what's the point of that? Is it mentorship? Discipleship? Friendship? Leadership? Did I miss a memo that redefined these terms? I suppose she might become a terror, but there's no sense in predicting the future at all, and if you must, why not try to be positive? [End rant]

 

Plus, the idea that kids should instantly drop anything (finished or unfinished) and tidy it up immediately upon instruction fades fairly quickly after age 10 or so, when parents start respecting what kids are working on (and therefore begin to respect a child's focus and work ethic towards their projects).

 

I imagine that when I am a middle-aged woman (oh wait, I am), I will ( a ) need a glass of wine after I finally get everyone home and into bed, ( b ) aspire to read a book that is not written for or about my children, and ( c ) find a private space, affectionately referred to as the bathroom, to get 5 quiet minutes by myself.

 

I don't see why this should horrify anyone, and I don't see why I should be roundly insulted because of a tendency to treat all kids as well as I treat my own (and that includes telling them to clean up after themselves) as well as a tendency to feel hurt when I am told I'm a big meanie to innocent young maidens.

 

[Rant:]I am a tired mother who volunteered to teach a group of little girls until 7:45 at night.  I also teach at AWANA from time to time, help in Cub Scouts, take both my kids to basketball practices and games, take my daughter to ballet, work in chess class every week so my child can go for free, spend several hours each week with a team of 8 wonderful and Heaven-sent professionals at my school who help my child with hearing issues and Aspergers, cook, clean, drive everywhere, run a business, and sleep at least 3 nights a week.  Occasionally, I even sleep with and talk to my husband.  I think his name is Dave. 

 

I'm a tired grown up who deserves better from kids and their parents when I stay late to teach them something.  Unlike some of the drop and run parents, I do feel a responsibility to step up in my child's volunteer run group, and I want to pull my weight as a leader.  You'd think Snowflake and Mrs. Snowflake would realize that I have other things with which to fill my time.  Did they miss a memo?  What happened to respect?  Gratitude? Consideration?  Instead of complaining about the parent who balked at cleaning up your 9 year old's trash, why not try to be positive and appreciate the time she put together writing and shopping for a zoology lesson for your child.  [End rant]

 

 

Bolt, honey, if you want to stay at church into the wee hours with Snowflake until she gets the glitter on her poster just right, you feel free.  Whatever floats your boat.  I gotta dash at 8 PM so I can get my kids home by 8:30 and into bed by 9 (which is an hour past their usual bedtime) so they can get a good night's sleep before the 6 am alarm for the school bus.

 

You and Snowflake have fun until the bars close.  I turn into a pumpkin at 9 PM, so I'd better go get my long awaited glass of red wine while I can.

 

Plus, the idea that other parents should take any crap your kid dishes out (intentionally or unintentionally) fades fairly quickly after age 40 or so, when most other parents realize that all the parents are busy, all our kids are special, and we should appreciate anybody who spends any of their time on our child and treat them with the basic civility and consideration all people deserve.

 

GA Mom

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Gee whiz.

The acronym here for when you want to be bolstered and agreed with instead of potentially considering other perspectives is "JAWM."

It means, "Just Agree With Me," and it saves us all a lot of time. You still get pats on the back and everything, but those who take time to craft something thoughtful know to move on.

[GeorgiaGirl160]

I feel *so* much better.  My dear friend some of the best behaved kids I know was nice enough to fill in for me tonight as a teacher at AHG so I could take my own kids to their end of season basketball banquet. 

 

She reminded me that she had helped a few months ago, and clearly remembered how "insolent" the 3rd grade clique was.  They rolled their eyes and pretended not to hear her either when she asked them to clean up after themselves.   She couldn't do anything with them either, and she's a certified 5th grade teacher and homeschooling mom. 

 

Thank God they're moving up into a different room after April.   Their mothers can deal with them.  Karma!

 

Thank God for good friends,

 

GA Mom

[KRG]

This child ignored instructions what three times and is then apparently scared to death because OP asked her again in a firm tone to clean up.  Again I doubt she was scared to death or held in emotion until she was out of there.  I was a super sensitive child.    If someone hurt my feelings as a child I was unable to wait until I left a room.  

[poppy]

Gee whiz.

 

The acronym here for when you want to be bolstered and agreed with instead of potentially considering other perspectives is "JAWM."

 

It means, "Just Agree With Me," and it saves us all a lot of time. You still get pats on the back and everything, but those who take time to craft something thoughtful know to move on.

 

I'm getting a tired of any pushback against criticism being responded to with "well you should have said JAWM".

It's not like all the posters were patting her on the back. There was  a whole range of thoughtful opinions.

[Catwoman]

Plus, the idea that kids should instantly drop anything (finished or unfinished) and tidy it up immediately upon instruction fades fairly quickly after age 10 or so, when parents start respecting what kids are working on (and therefore begin to respect a child's focus and work ethic towards their projects).

Class schedules are there for a reason. Class starts at a certain time and ends at a certain time.

 

A volunteer teacher is not the parent, so I think it's ridiculous to assume that she should "respect what the kids are working on" and let them keep working on a project until they are finished with it.

 

When class is over, it's time to go. Period. The teacher shouldn't be expected to hang around indefinitely so a kid can keep working on her project. And additionally, if there is another class scheduled immediately afterward in the same room, should that teacher and her students have to wait around for a few children to get tired of working on their artwork and finally clean up and leave the room?

[8circles]

HOLY COW.

 

I think you should stop volunteering with this group. It doesn't sound like its your thing.

 

I imagine that when I am a middle-aged woman (oh wait, I am), I will ( a ) need a glass of wine after I finally get everyone home and into bed, ( b ) aspire to read a book that is not written for or about my children, and ( c ) find a private space, affectionately referred to as the bathroom, to get 5 quiet minutes by myself.

 

I don't see why this should horrify anyone, and I don't see why I should be roundly insulted because of a tendency to treat all kids as well as I treat my own (and that includes telling them to clean up after themselves) as well as a tendency to feel hurt when I am told I'm a big meanie to innocent young maidens.

 

[Rant:]I am a tired mother who volunteered to teach a group of little girls until 7:45 at night. I also teach at AWANA from time to time, help in Cub Scouts, take both my kids to basketball practices and games, take my daughter to ballet, work in chess class every week so my child can go for free, spend several hours each week with a team of 8 wonderful and Heaven-sent professionals at my school who help my child with hearing issues and Aspergers, cook, clean, drive everywhere, run a business, and sleep at least 3 nights a week. Occasionally, I even sleep with and talk to my husband. I think his name is Dave.

 

I'm a tired grown up who deserves better from kids and their parents when I stay late to teach them something. Unlike some of the drop and run parents, I do feel a responsibility to step up in my child's volunteer run group, and I want to pull my weight as a leader. You'd think Snowflake and Mrs. Snowflake would realize that I have other things with which to fill my time. Did they miss a memo? What happened to respect? Gratitude? Consideration? Instead of complaining about the parent who balked at cleaning up your 9 year old's trash, why not try to be positive and appreciate the time she put together writing and shopping for a zoology lesson for your child. [End rant]

 

 

Bolt, honey, if you want to stay at church into the wee hours with Snowflake until she gets the glitter on her poster just right, you feel free. Whatever floats your boat. I gotta dash at 8 PM so I can get my kids home by 8:30 and into bed by 9 (which is an hour past their usual bedtime) so they can get a good night's sleep before the 6 am alarm for the school bus.

 

You and Snowflake have fun until the bars close. I turn into a pumpkin at 9 PM, so I'd better go get my long awaited glass of red wine while I can.

 

Plus, the idea that other parents should take any crap your kid dishes out (intentionally or unintentionally) fades fairly quickly after age 40 or so, when most other parents realize that all the parents are busy, all our kids are special, and we should appreciate anybody who spends any of their time on our child and treat them with the basic civility and consideration all people deserve.

 

GA Mom

 

[bolt.]

I'm sorry my post seemed to imply the child would be allowed to finish at her own pace. (Poor communication -- my bad.) I only meant to imply that her *desire* to do so isn't some kind of deep character flaw -- worth predicting doom and gloom for her teenage future.

 

I fully agree that she has to exit the class on time, with her supplies tidied away. There are a lot of ways for a children's leader to accomplish that. Some of them make sensitive children cry. Others don't.

 

Hon, you sound over burdened and its no wonder you ran out of patience with a child at the end of a long day. That happens to me all the time, and I don't do 50% of as much work as you listed. I have great respect for you. I don't think you were out of line.

 

I just think that sometimes kids cry -- and that it's worth knowing when-and-how "my" conduct leads to that result.

 

((I know I can't treat all kids like I treat my own. A lot if my patenting is incompatible with leading children in recreational activities. It's just no fun and has no place among children who might have the luxury of quieter, gentler, calmer parents. I'm on my best behaviour for "other kids" -- and I do my best to carry that demeanour home when I can.))

 

I also just think that good people don't insult children: even in their absence. They are so vulnerable to the perceptions of others, and it makes me sad to see them disparaged for displaying really normal childish behaviour. I think it was the term "snowflake" that activated my rant. I've heard that term used with such casual cruelty... It's just plain name-calling. Maybe in your circles it has a lighter-toned implications... I can give the benefit if that doubt... It just really struck me.

 

By the way: well written, and you certainly deserve your wine, your book and your privacy tonight!

 

(And maybe you also deserve some greater freedom and flexibility? Your standards for yourself and volunteering seem really high... Are you sure you like how these things are going for you? Some people thrive with this stuff... Other people push themselves really hard and just don't thrive. I don't have any way to know which type you are... But... Maybe worth thinking about?)

[Catwoman]

I'm sorry my post seemed to imply the child would be allowed to finish at her own pace. (Poor communication -- my bad.) I only meant to imply that her *desire* to do so isn't some kind of deep character flaw -- worth predicting doom and gloom for her teenage future.

 

I fully agree that she has to exit the class on time, with her supplies tidied away. There are a lot of ways for a children's leader to accomplish that. Some of them make sensitive children cry. Others don't.

 

Hon, you sound over burdened and its no wonder you ran out of patience with a child at the end of a long day. That happens to me all the time, and I don't do 50% of as much work as you listed. I have great respect for you. I don't think you were out of line.

 

I just think that sometimes kids cry -- and that it's worth knowing when-and-how "my" conduct leads to that result.

 

((I know I can't treat all kids like I treat my own. A lot if my patenting is incompatible with leading children in recreational activities. It's just no fun and has no place among children who might have the luxury of quieter, gentler, calmer parents. I'm on my best behaviour for "other kids" -- and I do my best to carry that demeanour home when I can.))

 

I also just think that good people don't insult children: even in their absence. They are so vulnerable to the perceptions of others, and it makes me sad to see them disparaged for displaying really normal childish behaviour. I think it was the term "snowflake" that activated my rant. I've heard that term used with such casual cruelty... It's just plain name-calling. Maybe in your circles it has a lighter-toned implications... I can give the benefit if that doubt... It just really struck me.

 

By the way: well written, and you certainly deserve your wine, your book and your privacy tonight!

 

(And maybe you also deserve some greater freedom and flexibility? Your standards for yourself and volunteering seem really high... Are you sure you like how these things are going for you? Some people thrive with this stuff... Other people push themselves really hard and just don't thrive. I don't have any way to know which type you are... But... Maybe worth thinking about?)

Sorry, bolt -- I completely misunderstood you!!! :blush:

[Lisbeth]

I don't think it is this mom and child's fault that you are overburdened and taking on too much. It sounds to me like you have a bit of a chip if you are referring to these people as special snowflakes. I think you are approaching this with an unkind spirit because you are shouldering too much.

I am sensitive to the "special snowflake" derision because my severely food allergic and SPD kids sometimes are accused of that. I think it is really telling about YOU that you are using that title for a kid.

Yuck. Kids can pick up when you feel that way.

[Catwoman]

The "special snowflake" comment didn't bother me, because I figured the OP was very upset and that she was just venting.

 

I can understand viewing it differently if your own child had ever been called that, though.

[GeorgiaGirl160]

Ga Mom here:
 

 

Bolt: I'm sorry my post seemed to imply the child would be allowed to finish at her own pace. (Poor communication -- my bad.) I only meant to imply that her *desire* to do so isn't some kind of deep character flaw -- worth predicting doom and gloom for her teenage future.

I'm sorry if I took your post too seriously. I think my loopy stab at humor was taken too seriously by some, too. I probably should have skipped the internet and gone straight for the glass of wine and bed after the basketball banquet.
 

 

Bolt: Hon, you sound over burdened and its no wonder you ran out of patience with a child at the end of a long day. That happens to me all the time, and I don't do 50% of as much work as you listed. I have great respect for you. I don't think you were out of line.

I think you make a good point. Reading my schedule made *me* tired. My commitments made sense at the beginning of the year, but multiplied by 2-3 times in November when my son was diagnosed with Asperger's and Auditory Processing Disorder. We were caught way off guard when his new 3rd grade teacher told us he was failing in class despite achievement test scores in the high 90's and an IQ of 125. After many, many hours of testing we discovered he can't understand what his teacher is saying. Well, no wonder. Poor kid!

So, we put my son in chess because it's good for him, and we keep him in basketball because it's good for him, etc. I can't exactly tell my daughter to drop AHG and ballet mid-year because mommy's tired. :-)

It is fair to say that I had no margin left for patience when a mother complained to the head of the program that I had "frightened" her child. Making a formal complaint against a teacher is a big deal.

Besides that, I had an abusive father myself, and the charge that I would ever yell at a child as I was screamed at (daily) cuts deep. I didn't, and I wouldn't, and I can't tolerate anyone believing that I would. Glad for two deep leadership in the class. I do have a good adult witness that I did no such thing.

 

 

Bolt: ((I know I can't treat all kids like I treat my own. A lot if my patenting is incompatible with leading children in recreational activities. It's just no fun and has no place among children who might have the luxury of quieter, gentler, calmer parents. I'm on my best behaviour for "other kids" -- and I do my best to carry that demeanour home when I can.))

As a parent, I am actually calm, and firm, and fun. We have a lot of fun time with our kids. We just don't think there's anything kind or helpful about letting them misbehave. We do insist they respect us, each other, our home, and the rest of the world.
 

 

Bolt: I also just think that good people don't insult children: even in their absence. They are so vulnerable to the perceptions of others, and it makes me sad to see them disparaged for displaying really normal childish behaviour. I think it was the term "snowflake" that activated my rant. I've heard that term used with such casual cruelty... It's just plain name-calling. Maybe in your circles it has a lighter-toned implications... I can give the benefit if that doubt... It just really struck me.

I get that the term hit a nerve due to past experience for you. I am sorry for that. It was unintentional. It was my belief that a little harmless anonymous venting was ok in this forum. I didn't intend to hurt you with my comment, and for that, I am sorry. I do think we all need a place to harmlessly verbalize frustrations without fear of hurt feelings, which I thought this was.

I don't consider this 9 year old's behavior in my class to be normal, or healthy for her. I think her mother is doing her a disservice.

 

 

By the way: well written, and you certainly deserve your wine, your book and your privacy tonight!

Thanks. My day job is writing. I'm glad you enjoyed my attempt at humor.

 

 

Bolt: (And maybe you also deserve some greater freedom and flexibility? Your standards for yourself and volunteering seem really high... Are you sure you like how these things are going for you? Some people thrive with this stuff... Other people push themselves really hard and just don't thrive. I don't have any way to know which type you are... But... Maybe worth thinking about?)

It is well worth considering, and I appreciate the kind suggestion.

I am sadly considering whether I should stick with volunteer run activities, particularly Cub Scouts and American Heritage Girls. In both cases, 5% of the parents do all the work, 85% of the parents drop and run, and 10% of the parents drop, run, and complain about the 5% who are actually helping.  It's exhausting!

Add to that a really snotty parent last week who not only doesn't appreciate you, rarely helps, mostly just drops and runs, but is quick to take a formal complaint over your head to the top of the organization when her child is reprimanded for not following very basic expectations for a child her age -- and it all gets very frustrating.

I do wonder if it is truly worth it. The main point of taking my kids to both organizations is to provide social contact and character modeling in addition to learning. The learning I can get at any area college here, or at home, for the same $$ or less and no volunteer time invested.

The main purpose of joining a volunteer run group is so that my children can interact with other good kids. But if the percentage of entitled kids and parents outweighs the ones with good character, then maybe this isn't for us. I don't know. I am considering. Maybe I *should* take my Tuesday evenings back.

Thanks for the encouragement,

GA Mom

[GeorgiaGirl160]

I don't think it is this mom and child's fault that you are overburdened and taking on too much. It sounds to me like you have a bit of a chip if you are referring to these people as special snowflakes. I think you are approaching this with an unkind spirit because you are shouldering too much.

I am sensitive to the "special snowflake" derision because my severely food allergic and SPD kids sometimes are accused of that. I think it is really telling about YOU that you are using that title for a kid.

Yuck. Kids can pick up when you feel that way.

 

I would never use "Snowflake" as a title for a child with a medical problem.  I have a hearing impaired son with Aspergers.

 

The only time I have ever used the term "Snowflake" is for a healthy, unimpaired brat.  The only thing impairing this child is a lack of appropriate discipline from her mother.

 

That's quite a leap.  Wow.  Check your own shoulder there.

 

GA Mom

[Caroline]

I am sadly considering whether I should stick with volunteer run activities, particularly Cub Scouts and American Heritage Girls. In both cases, 5% of the parents do all the work, 85% of the parents drop and run, and 10% of the parents drop, run, and complain about the 5% who are actually helping.  It's exhausting!

 

GA Mom

Considering this is your third thread venting about volunteering--Cub Scouts and AWANA and American Heritage Girls--perhaps you should rethink things.

 

What you wrote was not funny. You were obnoxious about the child and her mother. You only have managed to see things from your own point of view. You don't know what is going on in that child's life. How are you absolutely sure that she is nerotypical? You aren't.

 

And you aren't the new mom on the block. You have said several times in this thread that you have been at this for a year. That doesn't make you new.

[CaffeineDiary]

 

So, I told her in a stern and authoritative voice: "________, stop coloring now, you can finish your poster at home.  Please clean up your trash and put away your supplies right now."  It is the voice I used to use with my daughter when she was about...three...and not listening.

 

 

I really can't say who is in the right in this situation, not having been there and all, but in the abstract I'll observe that being talked to like that by your parents is fine and normal, and being talked to like that by a creepy stranger who you don't really know is scary and creepy.  So if it was me in this situation, I would absolutely assume that I came off as scary and creepy, and just apologize already.

 

You're a mom. Fine.  You're not her mom.  So don't act like it.

[catz]

Ga Mom here:

 

 

The main purpose of joining a volunteer run group is so that my children can interact with other good kids. But if the percentage of entitled kids and parents outweighs the ones with good character, then maybe this isn't for us. I don't know. I am considering. Maybe I *should* take my Tuesday evenings back.

 

Thanks for the encouragement,

 

GA Mom

This is the problem with volunteer run activities. My reaction to a situation like this may have been very different to this situation had this been a professionally run and paid program. When my kids have been in volunteer run activities, I am usually right in the mix. And if I'm not in the mix and I don't like how it's run, I either get involved or I pull out. These situations should feel more like a co-operative to me. I just think having a freak out on an adult VOLUNTEER is a good way to end the programming and create bad blood.

 

I also don't understand why (normal) kids should get an unlimited pass on ignoring a group leader, but if an adult is having a bad day and raises a voice, why we can't have some grace for that happening now and again too? I've IDed adults to my kids that have inappropriately raised their voice and I shrug it off with them and say, "Mr. Brown must be having a bad day. I wonder what else is going on with him?". I don't think it's probably a good precedent that we have to go WAY over board every time someone around us is having a rough go of it, and I think it's ok for kids to see that adults are human and make mistakes. If a volunteer was constantly yelling/angry/frustrated, that would be a different situation of course.

 

Obviously none of us were there with the OP. I'm just speaking generally.

[Harriet Vane]

 

Posted by Caroline: And you aren't the new mom on the block. You have said several times in this thread that you have been at this for a year. That doesn't make you new.

 

 

I beg to differ. I moved to a new state last summer, and it is emphatically clear in every setting in which I am engaged that I am "new." It is clear because of the disconnect I feel with those around me and it is clear because so many people at church or homeschool groups or robotics or Boy Scouts still say things like, "Oh, you're the new family from Chicago . . ." or "You're new here . . . ." This isn't a small town, either. Being the "new" is a condition that persists far longer than you might think.

[itsheresomewhere]

I would never use "Snowflake" as a title for a child with a medical problem.  I have a hearing impaired son with Aspergers.

 

The only time I have ever used the term "Snowflake" is for a healthy, unimpaired brat.  The only thing impairing this child is a lack of appropriate discipline from her mother.

 

That's quite a leap.  Wow.  Check your own shoulder there.

 

GA Mom

 

Just something to think about- not all parents reveal if their child has a disability.  Some are in denial and some don't talk about it for fear of being talked about or just don't acknowledge it.  Especially anything that is related to mental health.  Disabilities are not always visible.  One of my kids has severe APD and another has several disabilities and yet sometimes we are the only ones who reveal them.  I have a kid in one of my groups whose parents do not talk about the kid having Aspergers so to many he is a rude brat  The other leader and I have both know only because we have a child on the spectrum.  To his parents his diagnosis's is for school only not activities. 

 

Take a break from volunteering.  Sit down as a family and discuss what activities are the most important for them.  Then figure out which one activity they are want to do.  Some volunteer organizations allow volunteers to take a few weeks off to give you a mental health break.  

[clarkacademy]

There is a little boy down the street anytime I have to say something to him he runs to his mom with it blown way out of proportion. He does this with everything he goes to therapy for it. His mom knows she ignores him. The therapists said it was most likely a kinda of make the adult out really bad to his parents so when the adult tells on him he won't look all bad kind of thing. If it were my kid I would be angry someone had to tell them twice. It don't happen very much here. They may pull it with me but NEVER another adult.

[FaithManor]

In 4-H, we try not to confront the child. If we do, we are calm and cool, and bring another aid or at least a responsible teen with us to witness the conversation. With the mother standing right there, I would interrupted their conversation, told the mother point blank that she needed to supervise her child because she was not listening, and walked away. If there was a mess left at the table, the mother would have been confronted the next week.

 

Also, be sure you have a code of conduct and meeting rules that each parent signs. This way, the moms can't stand in the corner and refuse to make their kids comply with the guidelines. We do this and it's an automatic loss of membership if the parents refuse to comply. It takes the pressure off us to be the enforcers with the kids. We have definitely booted a couple of kids who wouldn't do what they were told who also had parents that would not make them do what they were told. It works. The other kids see this and think, "hmmm...I think I'd like to comply so I can continue to be a part of this club." No emotions.

 

Always be Mr. Spock of Star Trek. Make eye contact with the parent, use very little inflection in your voice. Same with the kids. If you have to speak to a kid directly on a disciplinary issue, always, always have someone else present or let it go unless it's a safety issue and you must absolutely intervene. Unfortunately, you can't just use your stern mommy voice with everyone else's kids. That said, I doubt you did anything wrong per se. Plus, some kids NEVER here a stern voice at home. My aunt was one of those beg kids to behave, sing song baby talk voice (even when her kids were teens and she refused to allow her husband to talk to them in a more authoritative manner) so at 3rd or 4th grade, they probably would have been taken aback and maybe cried especially if their teacher at school never spoke that way. It's not bad that you did, but differences in family cultures are so large now, you can't count on other families thinking it's appropriate for you to use that tone of voice.

 

So, again....no emotion, always firm, but not stern, very little inflection in the voice...matter of fact with parents, have a witness present, confront parents if at all possible instead of the offender.

 

I don't know about boy scouts but in 4-H, you'd be within your rights to demand the parent and child attend a 4-H Council meeting to resolve the issue. Failure to comply is an automatic one year suspension from membership. Now, I'm not saying you'd come out on top at the meeting since you didn't have an adult or older, responsible teen as a witness to the event, but usually the mediation tends to calm emotions a bit and in this case, the one thing Council would do is sternly right there johnny on the spot, remind the parent and child that they have to obey the rules and listen to the leader, period.

 

It sounds like something that should be able to just blow over in a few weeks unless this is a particularly snowflakish type mother.

[bolt.]

I'm still sure I must be missing the point.

 

It's obvious to me that children that age occasionally ignore instructions. Not that it is "good behaviour" but it is a normal, expectable, commonplace style if misbehaviour isn't it?

 

Is it possible that the opposite statement is really true in your experience: "All nerotypical children, 9 or 10 years old, always and immediatly follow 100% of the instructions given to them." (?)

 

I may be inexperienced with children and groups (my oldest is that age, and I'm not that deep into it) but that just doesn't match my experience. My experience says, "Most nerotypical children, age 9 and 10, occasionally fail to follow instructions."

 

When children fails to follow instructions, its not a surprise, and a leader has a variety of choices... A firm reprimand is one option, but; honest: there are other courses of action that are softer, but still effective.

 

I personally (even though I employ firm reprimands in my parenting) would expect something more like "cheerful shepherding" from a teacher/leader in the scenario you described.

 

Plus if "I" indeed made a child cry, I would absolutely need and want to hear that "complaint" -- how else would I come to know the negative outcomes if my choices.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I think the mom and daughter are a touch sensitive and maybe a bit over-dramatic. I have a friend like this and you have to harness her "outrage" really quick or she goes postal.

 

 I would not have sent the email, instead I would have showed up to the next meeting happy and chipper being especially (over the top) considerate to the particular mother.  I would even make a point of strongly encouraging her to stay for the entire class.  See if she complains over imagined slights again when I kindly ask her to be in charge of clean-up.  I'm kind of sneaky and mean though.  

 

Otherwise if I felt the need to address it personally I would have informed the director and then either called (not my first choice) or spoke to the mother before class.  The "keep it a secret" thing would be a big no way with me too.  

[poppy]

I'm still sure I must be missing the point.

 

It's obvious to me that children that age occasionally ignore instructions. Not that it is "good behaviour" but it is a normal, expectable, commonplace style if misbehaviour isn't it?

 

Is it possible that the opposite statement is really true in your experience: "All nerotypical children, 9 or 10 years old, always and immediatly follow 100% of the instructions given to them." (?)

 

I may be inexperienced with children and groups (my oldest is that age, and I'm not that deep into it) but that just doesn't match my experience. My experience says, "Most nerotypical children, age 9 and 10, occasionally fail to follow instructions."

 

When children fails to follow instructions, its not a surprise, and a leader has a variety of choices... A firm reprimand is one option, but; honest: there are other courses of action that are softer, but still effective.

 

I personally (even though I employ firm reprimands in my parenting) would expect something more like "cheerful shepherding" from a teacher/leader in the scenario you described.

 

Plus if "I" indeed made a child cry, I would absolutely need and want to hear that "complaint" -- how else would I come to know the negative outcomes if my choices.

 

Do you think the way it played out was appropriate?

Volunteer inadvertently upset a child.

Child complained to mom.

Mom complained to a level above the volunteer.

Volunteer gets a call investigating the complaint.

Volunteer send a note of explanation to the mom.

Head of organization chastises her for reaching out because the complaint was (theoretically) confidential.

 

Given that chain of events, I personally would have a hard time with just being grateful for all the useful feedback.

I think a lot of people screwed up a little bit each, honestly.

But being reasonable with volunteers is a virtue that is not being met here, IMO.

 

[elfgivas]

well, fwiw, i find the expression "how would you like to proceed?"  to be very, very useful.

to the head of the organization: how would you like to proceed?  would you like to sit in on a meeting?  would you like the mother invovled to sit in on a meeting?  would you like me to resign?

to the mother:  how would you like to proceed?  would you like to sit in on a meeting?  would you like to volunteer to work with me?  would you like me to resign?

 

this situation looks possible for this approach, as you aren't sure whether you wish to continue volunteering or not.

 

fwiw,

ann

[myfunnybunch]

Maybe I *should* take my Tuesday evenings back.

 

 

That might be a good choice for you and your family. You sound tired. :grouphug: An evening at home sounds like heaven to me too. As a matter of fact, our family set aside one night a week for "at home" night and does not sign anyone up for any activity that takes place on Tuesdays. (Except now, as they move closer to their musical theater opening. But we'll get our Tuesdays back soon.) And I'm super sensitive to criticism, and in your shoes I would be extremely upset by the report.

 

I volunteer a lot. A LOT. I know how tiring it can be, and how frustrating it is to see (and be) the same people stepping up time and time again. It is one reason why organizations have difficulty finding and keeping volunteers, because people get so burnt out. To me, reading your posts, it sounds like this one incident has become loaded with a lot of general frustration and resentment, and you're having a hard time shaking it off and moving forward.

 

I do agree with bolt about the "cheerful shepherding." There are other ways to deal with compliance issues. Using positive strategies might be more in keeping with the (presumable) positive messages and values of the organization. As my boys' choir parent, I use those kinds of strategies all the time, and the positive strategies effectively stop the behavior, build a positive relationship with the child so that they're more likely to comply in the future, and the kids go away feeling like they've had a positive experience. That's my goal: To serve all of the children in the group.

 

This is not to say the child was right. This is not to say that the mom was right, either for being unaware of what was going on or for reporting you. Nor am I saying that your use of a stern voice was wrong, I promise. I hope you can hear that. I don't want to make you feel jumped on or criticized. My intent is to think about moving into the future if you choose to stay involved--what can you learn from the situation? 

 

Cat

[Juniper]

I have read the whole thread an really have nothing to add (bolt said everything I would have).

 

I will say the one take away I have received is that HG would never work for our family. Any organization that places customers (parents and children) in the position of having to confront a superior (official volunteer) when there is an offense is inherently unhealthy IMHO.

 

Would I be comfortable, yes, but I am always stunned when Matthew 18 is used in this way.

[poppy]

I have read the whole thread an really have nothing to add (bolt said everything I would have).

 

I will say the one take away I have received is that HG would never work for our family. Any organization that places customers (parents and children) in the position of having to confront a superior (official volunteer) when there is an offense is inherently unhealthy IMHO.

 

Would I be comfortable, yes, but I am always stunned when Matthew 18 is used in this way.

 

In the case of serious offenses, I absolutely agree.  No one who feels bullied or abused should have no recourse other than to talk to the attacker.

 

But "that lady said something once that hurt my feelings" doesn't have to be treated as a go-to-the-principal situation.  These are parents working together to create a  program for their girls.  "Official volunteer"- I am guessing the other mom was an official volunteer, or at least CORIed, if she was in the room too. It's not a hierarchy. It should be a team effort. 

[Juniper]

I don't know how to quite from my phone. :(

 

I get what you are saying completely. In my own life I have no issues speaking directly with a teacher, but I thought the parent just walked into a room =not a volunteer, and I thought it was posted that the Matt 18 model was some sort of posted policy with HG. That is where I have to draw the line for my own family.

 

Again, not saying anything in the opposite extreme where people should just talk willy billy behind backs and jump ranks, but having a written policy of Matt 18 confrontation model is a major no no in my book. I was really surprised to learn HG has it and hope there is some misunderstanding. :(

[Alicia64]

Something very similar happened with me in our co-op with two kids. I mean, come on, those moms with their "not my child" garbage. Give me a break.

 

Stand your ground. I was bullied by the parents and I still regret not speaking up.

 

Alley

[bolt.]

Do you think the way it played out was appropriate?

Volunteer inadvertently upset a child.

Child complained to mom.

Mom complained to a level above the volunteer.

Volunteer gets a call investigating the complaint.

Volunteer send a note of explanation to the mom.

Head of organization chastises her for reaching out because the complaint was (theoretically) confidential.

 

Given that chain of events, I personally would have a hard time with just being grateful for all the useful feedback.

I think a lot of people screwed up a little bit each, honestly.

But being reasonable with volunteers is a virtue that is not being met here, IMO.

To me, the situation would be different. I would see it differently, characterize it differently, and end it much sooner.

 

Volunteer inadvertently upset a child.

Child told her mom about her feelings (as children should do).

Mom infirmed a comfortable contact person about what had happened, perhaps inquiring if the child could be shifted to another group to avoid confrontation -- or some other type of solution that involved the coordinator.

Coordinater decides she could use more information. She wants to fully understand the event.

Volunteer gets a call from a comfortable contact person, such as a coordinator, letting her know what seems to have happened with the upset child, and wondering about the volunteer's perspective, indicating full 'benefit of the doubt' and acting as a good listener.

Volunteer thanks the contact person for letting her know, expresses regret for unintended fall out, tells her own perspective, which sounds perfectly reasonable.

Coordinater makes decisions about which class members are a good fit with this volunteer (or not).

Volunteer makes decisions about softer styles of child-leadership, longer clean up windows with more personal contact, longer creativity windows, less creative projects, better time frames for continuing to volunteer (or not), better self-care and attitude adjustments that might increase her happiness... Etc.

[poppy]

To me, the situation would be different. I would see it differently, characterize it differently, and end it much sooner.

 

Volunteer inadvertently upset a child.

Child told her mom about her feelings (as children should do).

Mom infirmed a comfortable contact person about what had happened, perhaps inquiring if the child could be shifted to another group to avoid confrontation -- or some other type of solution that involved the coordinator.

Coordinater decides she could use more information. She wants to fully understand the event.

Volunteer gets a call from a comfortable contact person, such as a coordinator, letting her know what seems to have happened with the upset child, and wondering about the volunteer's perspective, indicating full 'benefit of the doubt' and acting as a good listener.

Volunteer thanks the contact person for letting her know, expresses regret for unintended fall out, tells her own perspective, which sounds perfectly reasonable.

Coordinater makes decisions about which class members are a good fit with this volunteer (or not).

Volunteer makes decisions about softer styles of child-leadership, longer clean up windows with more personal contact, longer creativity windows, less creative projects, better time frames for continuing to volunteer (or not), better self-care and attitude adjustments that might increase her happiness... Etc.

 

This is kind of confusing because you reframe some of it (fine) and then completely change the ending (I think agreeing it wasn't handled well?)

[*Alyssa*]

Does your troop not have a Troop Shepherd?  A TS is meant to mediate situations like these.  If they are worth their salt, they could handle this situation with ease.

[bolt.]

This is kind of confusing because you reframe some of it (fine) and then completely change the ending (I think agreeing it wasn't handled well?)

I changed the ending because "I" would have changed the ending. "I" wouldn't have done the next listed step, therefore none of the following steps would have occurred.

 

I guess I did assume that a co-ordinater would do some co-ordination, but that didn't seem like stretching the situation -- just a natural assumption about a competent person.

[shanvan]

Gee whiz.

 

The acronym here for when you want to be bolstered and agreed with instead of potentially considering other perspectives is "JAWM."

 

It means, "Just Agree With Me," and it saves us all a lot of time. You still get pats on the back and everything, but those who take time to craft something thoughtful know to move on.

In fairness, I've tried JAWM a time or two.  It doesn't always work.

[poppy]

I changed the ending because "I" would have changed the ending. "I" wouldn't have done the next listed step, therefore none of the following steps would have occurred.

 

I guess I did assume that a co-ordinater would do some co-ordination, but that didn't seem like stretching the situation -- just a natural assumption about a competent person.

 

If we get to re-write the situation so things get done without mistakes, let's start at the first step so the poor kid doesn't cry!! (<-- lighthearted comment)

 

I think the OP is mostly upset at having to go back into a situation where she's already been put through  the wringer.  It seems like the whole thing was pretty much resolved after her conversation with the head of the group, and she wrote an email to the mom, presumably for some closure and to prevent confusion/hurt feelings at the next meeting.  Instead she got reprimanded, and had an argument with the head of the group about THAT, and that pushed the situation in a "should I just give up" direction.

 

So I guess in your ideal scenario she does NOT write to the mom, and perhaps is not permitted to volunteer with that child anymore.

 

 

 

Volunteer thanks the contact person for letting her know, expresses regret for unintended fall out, tells her own perspective, which sounds perfectly reasonable.

Coordinater makes decisions about which class members are a good fit with this volunteer (or not).

Volunteer makes decisions about softer styles of child-leadership, longer clean up windows with more personal contact, longer creativity windows, less creative projects, better time frames for continuing to volunteer (or not), better self-care and attitude adjustments that might increase her happiness... Etc.

 

If this group is like Girl Scouts (which it seems to be), you can't really segregated one volunteer from an individual scout. We're a troop! (Or team, or whatever term this group uses).  AND you're going to be with these kids for as long as they remain in the group - could be several years.  I do think it's safe to assume the OP would not do things the exact same way again, especially with that particular child.

[Hikin' Mama]

GA Mom, not that it matters what I think, but I don't think you did anything wrong. You asked 3 or 4 times for the girl to clean up and she didn't. Everyone else was cleaning up, but she failed to help. OP handed her a trash can, but she kept working on her project. So OP got stern with her. In my opinion her mom should have been paying attention and telling her to clean up, as she obviously knew that the time was coming to a close.

 

And to whomever said the OPs behavior was scary and creepy...really?! Being stern is not creepy. Maybe it scared this kittle girl because someone actually made her do something she didn't want to do. Being stern is much better than using that sweety sweet voice that goes up an octave every time a request has to be repeated. That voice irritates the heck out of me and I would rather people be stern with my kid than use that.

 

If you can't get stern with those in your charge when they are clearly not listening, why bother?

[Sun]

GA Mom, not that it matters what I think, but I don't think you did anything wrong. You asked 3 or 4 times for the girl to clean up and she didn't. Everyone else was cleaning up, but she failed to help. OP handed her a trash can, but she kept working on her project. So OP got stern with her. In my opinion her mom should have been paying attention and telling her to clean up, as she obviously knew that the time was coming to a close.

 

And to whomever said the OPs behavior was scary and creepy...really?! Being stern is not creepy. Maybe it scared this kittle girl because someone actually made her do something she didn't want to do. Being stern is much better than using that sweety sweet voice that goes up an octave every time a request has to be repeated. That voice irritates the heck out of me and I would rather people be stern with my kid than use that.

 

If you can't get stern with those in your charge when they are clearly not listening, why bother?

 

Sing it, sister. I get very tired of parents who jump in for every tiny problem their children have. If my child told me that a volunteer in her class had snapped at her (for not doing what she was supposed to do!), I'd point out that she could have avoided that little problem by doing what she was supposed to be doing. Where is the parent's sense of embarrassment that her child wasn't following directions?

 

Frankly, I'm pretty shocked that on a homeschooling board with lots of people who believe in much more draconian discipline than I that there would be so much criticism of how the OP handled the situation. Speaking sternly to a child who's ignoring you is not abusive.