s/o makeup: Who paints their boys' nails? And lets them wear pink? Etc.

[Wheres Toto]

Aside from shirts and maybe swim trunks if you have a boy set on pink you have to hit the "girls side" of the store. After age 6 if you have a boy who wants any bright color at all and doesn't like sport references you often have to hit the girls side of the store. The pink backpack with red and white polka dots my son picked for school was on the girl side of the store for example. As are the pink crocs and fleece jacket he preferred.

 

And yes, at least one person raised the idea that doing anything traditionally seen as female was an indicator of sexuality or gender confusion. And then it got all messed up with gender identity. It got a little confusing at that point. People are naturally going to say hold up and what the what at that sort of remark.

 

I couldn't find purple sweats for ds's Halloween costume without going to the girls department.  The boys had black, grey and a dark maroon color.  That's it.  BOOOORRING!

[Catwoman]

I couldn't find purple sweats for ds's Halloween costume without going to the girls department. The boys had black, grey and a dark maroon color. That's it. BOOOORRING!

Yeah, what's up with that ugly, muddy maroon color? Does anyone look good in that???

[UmMusa]

No, DS never asked for his toes painted.

[Corraleno]

I don't think it's healthy when a child pushes toward something that denies who they are. For instance, when a boy wants to literally be a girl and takes steps to make it happen, I wonder why they can't accept themselves for who they are. It's possible that there's some biological/health reason for this, but I would wonder why they could not accept themselves for who they are. (And yes, I'm directly referencing the transgender issue. As someone mentioned, there is a difference between being gay and being transgender.) So if my child showed strong tendencies toward wanting to be something they aren't, I'd definitely be investigating what's behind that.

 

Gender is more than just chromosomes and genitals. It's possible for someone to have the chromosomes of one gender and the physical traits of the other. It's possible to have both male and female chromosomes (1 in 500 men are born XXY). It's possible for people to have the genitals of one gender but the actual structure of their brains and their biochemistry are much closer to the other gender. 

 

Gender is partly determined by chromosomes, but it is also dependent on various hormonal switches turning on and off in utero (which is partly determined by the mother's hormones, not just the baby's genetics). A baby's genitals are determined by the level of androgens in the first trimester, but the process of "genderizing" the brain happens after that, and sometimes the levels of androgens and other hormones during that process do not "match," so you can end up with a conflict between the child's physical gender and their neurological gender. 

 

For trans people, their bodies do not reflect "who they really are" — they feel like they were born with the wrong body, not the wrong brain. The problem they face is that the biological gender of their bodies is visible, but the biological gender of their brains is not, so people tend to think that they're "really" the gender of their genitals and the rest is just a choice or preference (or the result of trauma or mental illness).

[Rubix]

I have....I will do DS's toe nails in colors, he usually wants blue or green, and only when I do DD's and he is around.  Really, he doesn't understand, and wouldn't understand if she could have hers all pretty and he can't.  I won't do his fingernails with color, but I will use a clear.  He's always ok with having his toes only. 

 

I think it can be hard for little boys with sisters.  They get their hair done, nails done, earrings (if you do that sort of thing), sparkles and fancy body spray as they age.  It's harder to pay special attention to a boy in that way.  I can dress him well, but DD is dressed as well.  I can do his hair with a little gel, but as a little one, he doesn't understand how she can be made so pretty and he doesn't get that sort of attention / primping for special dressing up.  I'm not even sure if I'm making sense!

[HRAAB]

I have never done it and I would never allow that.

I'm not going to actively or passively encourage "girly" behavior in my sons.

It doesn't sit right with me, on an instinctive level so my answer would be No. Never. Nuh-uh.

Fortunately it isn't an issue for us. But if it ever came up:

NO to nail polish

NO to dresses

NO to skirts

NO to tutus

NO to barettes

NO to high-heeled shoes

NO to dressing up and playing "I'm a woman"

and

NO to any other thing that is considered by my American culture overtly "female/girl/women" behavior.

 

 

Growing up I hated dresses, tutus, barettes, high-heeled shoes and all girly stuff.  If I played dress-up, I was usually Batman and never Cinderella.  I didn't like dolls or playing house.  I liked outside, dirty, rough and tumble play.  I was usually dressed in jeans or cutoffs.  As an adult, I still dislike dresses, high heeled shoes, nail polish.  I avoid make-up - you might catch me in it once a year.  I usually keep my hair short so I don't have to deal with it.  I've never had a manicure/pedicure and hate going to a beauty salon.  Torture would be having a manicure, facial, makeup, etc.  I don't like jewelry except my wedding ring.  I hate clothes shopping.  I'm still usually in jeans or cutoffs.  I still don't do feminine stuff well.

 

So, according to you, my behavior was inappropriate as a child since you consider the reverse behavior in a male child inappropriate?  I wonder if I'm still inappropriate.  Or if you don't, why not?  Is it okay for a girl to exhibit boyish behavior while it is inappropriate for a boy to exhibit any girlish behavior?  Boyish behavior = superior; girlish behavior = inferior.  Would it bother you if your son ended up with a boyish girl.  Should I be concerned because three of my daughters exhibit boyish behavior.  The other two are extremely girlish and love all things girly.

 

By the way, I'm all woman in every other way as my dh would willingly attest to.

[Audrey]

I am not bothered by boys with painted fingernails or wearing pink or dresses or make-up or... whatever it is they want to wear.  I think it is a good thing to allow children a bit of freedom in expressing themselves through their personal adornments.  I have limits on that, of course, mostly regarding appropriate dress to the weather.  No matter how much a kid wants to wear shorts to play outside when it is -40°, there is no way I'm letting that happen.  I also think permanent things like piercing and tattoos are adult decisions and should wait until they are adults.

 

That said, something that does bother me is when parents push unconventional adornment choices on kids who aren't interested in it.  I have seen that happen almost as often as I have seen parents who enforce strictly conservative/modest dress upon their kids.  Both are not okay, IMHO.

[mamaraby]

What I'm trying to say is that choosing to reject someone's gender can be the indication of other things, like abuse, and I would want to know if there was something else going on. I would not just assume that my son was born wanting to be a girl, or vice versa. That is totally different to me than kids playing with things traditionally associated with the opposite gender.

 

Boys playing with dolls and girls playing with swords are pretty common and perfectly natural, IMO. But a child NOT wanting to be a boy, when he is a boy, can be a warning sign, so I would treat it completely different. And unfortunately, it seems that abuse is more statistically likely than actually being born transgender. That's all.

 

I guess it's like when a kids gets the sniffles. All kids gets sniffles. No biggie. You treat it. You move one. But a 104 degree temp could be the same sniffles manifested differently in a particular child....or it could be the sign of something more serious. So I would definitely be watching and caring for the kid with the high fever differently than the one with just the sniffles. *Sigh* It's just a comparison...please, don't take it too literally. I'm not saying that kids who are born transgender are sick. I'm just saying it merits a different reaction in me as a parent.

[citation needed]

[IsabelC]

Yes, my son wears pink sometimes. Yes, he wore dresses when he was a toddler. Yes, he sometimes has long hair. Yes, he can paint his nails (he generally chooses not to, but that is because he has an issue with the nasty smell of the stuff). My husband wore painted toenails when we all did rainbow nails at Beltane, but he didn't do his fingernails as he thought (probably rightly) that this would be frowned on by some of his clients. 

 

We encourage the children to reject any restrictions society attempts to impose as a result of gender stereotyping. But we also encourage them to make their own informed decisions.

 

We have talked about this kind of thing quite a bit, and the kids regularly identify when people are "pinkified" (ie, buying into stereotypes).

[IsabelC]

As Audrey said, I have known people who strongly encouraged their boys to be "girly" and discouraged their girls from being "girly". I agree that using your kid as some kind of statement (of whatever ilk) is not OK, and that's what I meant by letting them make the decision. I don't want my daughter in pink from head to toe because that's what girls "should" wear, but I'm fine with her understanding that she could wear khaki and nevertheless choosing pink. 

[IsabelC]

And at risk of stating the obvious, gender and s3x aren't the same.

S3x is what you physically are. Most people are male or female, a tiny number are inters3x.

Gender is a social construction that is assigned, taken on, interpreted and and may be reinterpreted over time. It is not the same as s3x or s3xuality. Most people are masculine or feminine to correspond with male and female, and according to some these are the only possibilities. However there have been examples of 3rd, 4th and even 5th genders in many traditional societies. In modern society there are various flavors of gender-queer and for some people, the entire notion of gender is outdated and limiting. Just sayin'.

 

 

Now that's out of the way, may I respectfully ask, to anybody who is not comfortable with their son(s) dressing or acting like girls/women:

What exactly do you think might be the results of this? 

 

I ask because the reason I have most often read is that "it might confuse them" and I genuinely don't understand the concern.

 

My son knows he is a boy. If he puts on a dress and pretends to be a woman, he still knows he is really a boy. He knows that society differentiates between boys and girls, and he knows that boys aren't expected to wear dresses (except in specific circumstances, like if they grow up to be priests). He knows that he can choose to conform to expectations or not, and that there may be consequences if he exercises his right not to conform. So how exactly is he confused?

 

I think that boys who hear that everyone is equal but also hear "girl" used as an insult (eg "you throw like a girl" or "stop crying like a girl") are more likely to be confused.

[Luanne]

This is just my perspective, but it seems to me like boys (especially ones beyond preschool age) wanting to dress in any way like a girl started with rebellion... wanting to do something as far from the societal norm as possible.  I think certain girls (women) are more masculine and certain boys (men) are more feminine, but that doesn't make a man a woman or vice versa.  People like to see what kind of reactions they can get from other people, whether it be just society in general or their family.  My nephew loved the color pink and playing with dolls when he was young.  Now he is almost 21 and very much a male.  I'm so glad his parents didn't take his behavior as a young child and try to raise him as a girl because of it.  A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl.  I like somethings that guys like.  I am not a guy.

[Ravin]

This is just my perspective, but it seems to me like boys (especially ones beyond preschool age) wanting to dress in any way like a girl started with rebellion... wanting to do something as far from the societal norm as possible. I think certain girls (women) are more masculine and certain boys (men) are more feminine, but that doesn't make a man a woman or vice versa. People like to see what kind of reactions they can get from other people, whether it be just society in general or their family. My nephew loved the color pink and playing with dolls when he was young. Now he is almost 21 and very much a male. I'm so glad his parents didn't take his behavior as a young child and try to raise him as a girl because of it. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl. I like somethings that guys like. I am not a guy.

It's not necessarily about rebellion. Sometimes it's about liking what you like, or being who you are, regardless of what others/society say you're supposed to.

[Tammi K]

I've never painted my boys' nails. But, their sisters certainly have! Pink, blue, you name it. They've both worn dresses at the hands of their sisters as well. And, I dare say, we've seen a ponytail or two on their young manly heads. :lol:

[Carrie12345]

My favorite words with regard to this subject, courtesy of Madonna.

 

Girls can wear jeans

And cut their hair short

Wear shirts and boots

'Cause it's OK to be a boy

But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading

'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading

But secretly you'd love to know what it's like

Wouldn't you

What it feels like for a girl

 

THIS is what gets me. Few people balk at the idea of raising girls to be "just as good as" boys.  It's practically our national mantra. But the idea of boys being "just as good as" girls? It flips more people's lids than the reverse.

 

There's nothing wrong with femininity. In either gender.

[sunflowerlady]

Yes, that is what confuses me. I don't seem to be able to quote on my tablet but I am agreeing with Carrie's post.

 

Girls who behave and dress in a manner considered to be boyish even have a cute nickname-tomboys. Most of the time I see no negative reactions to this. She wants baseball shirts from the boys department and to play sports. Great. She isn't into dolls-fine.

 

Boys who do similar things don't have a cute nickname. There are certainly names but they are far from cute and are meant as insults. The reaction is quite different if Johnny wants to behave in a manner considered feminine.

 

Why? And as for confusion, do people worry about the tomboy girls becoming confused? If not why? If so, why is it acceptable if it is not acceptable for boys?

 

I find these questions very interesting.

[LucyStoner]

Yes, that is what confuses me. I don't seem to be able to quote on my tablet but I am agreeing with Carrie's post.

 

Girls who behave and dress in a manner considered to be boyish even have a cute nickname-tomboys. Most of the time I see no negative reactions to this. She wants baseball shirts from the boys department and to play sports. Great. She isn't into dolls-fine.

 

Boys who do similar things don't have a cute nickname. There are certainly names but they are far from cute and are meant as insults. The reaction is quite different if Johnny wants to behave in a manner considered feminine.

 

Why? And as for confusion, do people worry about the tomboy girls becoming confused? If not why? If so, why is it acceptable if it is not acceptable for boys?

 

I find these questions very interesting.

 

I think it is driven by a mix of fear of homosexuality and by misogyny. 

 

As for the bolded, IME after a certain age yes, tomboys get flack and pressure.  Less than boys who exhibit feminine choices (be that as part of being a straight or gay) but still some flack and pressure.  What was ok at 8 becomes less acceptable at 12.  People would ask me things like "do you EVER wear dresses?"  and "Don't you want boys to like you?"  I received so many passive aggressive comments and even gifts, like a Caboodle and makeup kit from a church family who knew I wasn't into makeup etc.  As if HAVING makeup would turn me on to it.  Sometimes I wore dresses and as for boys liking me, I had plenty of admirers.  But if a boy wasn't going to like my rough and tumble self they were clearly not a boy I was meant to be friends with.  So my answer was no I don't want boys like THAT to like me.  :)  I was the girl who got ready for a big, regular school senior prom right after a softball game in a public bathroom.  I sponged off and changed, sorta combed my hair and voila!  My date arrived to pick me up.  It was that or skip the game and that so, so, so wasn't going to happen.  Team before dates!  Duh!  :)

[LucyStoner]

This is just my perspective, but it seems to me like boys (especially ones beyond preschool age) wanting to dress in any way like a girl started with rebellion... wanting to do something as far from the societal norm as possible.  I think certain girls (women) are more masculine and certain boys (men) are more feminine, but that doesn't make a man a woman or vice versa.  People like to see what kind of reactions they can get from other people, whether it be just society in general or their family.  My nephew loved the color pink and playing with dolls when he was young.  Now he is almost 21 and very much a male.  I'm so glad his parents didn't take his behavior as a young child and try to raise him as a girl because of it.  A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl.  I like somethings that guys like.  I am not a guy.

 

My trans brother was the opposite of rebellious.  He tried so freaking hard to be a girl.  Rebellion had zero, and I mean zero to do with it.  Certainly no one should assume their child is trans because of non-conforming color choices.  It's not that simple at all. 

 

 

ETA:  Honestly it was often like he was trying TOO HARD to be a girl and just had no freaking idea what he was supposed to be doing.  We were both mega "tomboys" but I was fine being the sporty girl.  My brother was just not fine, because he just wasn't a girl.  I only keep out pictures of him as a child where his gender is ambiguous out of respect for him and I keep an envelope of other pictures private.  There's this wincingly painful picture of him as a kindergartener at a princess makeover party where he's decked out in a ballerina suit and tiara and makeup and he's got this impossibly large grin on his face but his eyes are miserable.   

 

It's not necessarily about rebellion. Sometimes it's about liking what you like, or being who you are, regardless of what others/society say you're supposed to.

 

:iagree:

[catz]

My trans brother was the opposite of rebellious.  He tried so freaking hard to be a girl.  Rebellion had zero, and I mean zero to do with it.  Certainly no one should assume their child is trans because of non-conforming color choices.  It's not that simple at all. 

 

 

:iagree:

I know many homosexuals and a couple transgendered people (including a family raising a transgender child). I could not agree with this more. Many of these people struggled to fit society's expectations for years and years.

[Impish]

So far, 2 of my 4 sons have had painted nail at one point or another.

 

Considering the 2 that haven't are 2 yo and almost 8 mths old, I'd say there's time for that to change ;)

[TravelingChris]

I am with Johns Hopkins University on this issue (transgender).  They were the ones who pioneered the treatment and techniques.  A number of years ago, they completely stopped the program because they considered it a failure and no longer thought that chemistry and surgery were the appropriate ways to treat the underlying issues. 

[Mrs Mungo]

I really don't understand what gay or transgender issues have to do with the thread. Some guys like stuff that is widely considered today to be more on the feminine end of things. It *hasn't always been true* that those things were considered feminine. These are NOT universal ideas. Plenty of woman loving men who are comfortable with being men like some things that other people would say, "nope, that is for women." Besides which, we are talking about young men! If the worst way they "rebel" (if that is true, which I don't think it necessarily is) is by wearing nail polish, then I would consider that a win for parenting.

 

I have a female friend who never wears dresses, has short hair, doesn't wear makeup, loves sports and so forth. She has been happily married to one of my dh's best friends for 15 years. Liking sports and not dresses doesn't make her transgendered or gay. These are completely and totally separate issues.

[Tangerine]

My husband likes boxing.  And musicals. My son has beautiful long blonde hair.  And is obsessed with weaponry.  My daughter has loved horror themes her entire life.  And everything is purple and animal print.  I love domesticity.  And cars.  How boring our house would be if someone dictated to us our approved interests.

[Χά�ων]

Children should not have to get caught up in adult politics of sex, gender, and sexual orientation.

[Ravin]

Johns Hopkins' 360 on trans issues (which I had to go look up because I hadn't heard of it) is led by the religious-based agenda of one person. It is backed by one very weak study which claims the opposite of many, many studies elsewhere, and the Johns Hopkins agenda set back the state of medicine for transgender people quite a bit because of their influence. The U.S. has a worse track record on medical treatment of trans people than Iran.

 

The overwhelming, evidence-based opinion in medicine is that gender dysphoria (a mismatch between one's gender and one's apparent biology) is not a mental disorder but a physical one. 

 

How did we get started on this? Nail polish?

 

Not everyone who is gender creative as a child (or an adult) is in need of medical intervention. Fewer probably would need it if our society was more tolerant and accepting of people who blur or cross gender lines, whether at age six or sixty. Fewer would die.

 

Here's food for thought: The transgender community doesn't have a Pride Day. Instead, we have a Day of Remembrance for those who have died by suicide or by violence because they are transgender.

 

Transgender and otherwise gender creative kids are mentally healthier and less likely to commit suicide if they are accepted for who they are and not forced into boxes that don't fit them. That alone should be reason enough to not base "the nail polish question" on whether the child is a boy or a girl.

[BrookValley.]

I am with Johns Hopkins University on this issue (transgender). They were the ones who pioneered the treatment and techniques. A number of years ago, they completely stopped the program because they considered it a failure and no longer thought that chemistry and surgery were the appropriate ways to treat the underlying issues.

The Gender Identity Clinic at Johns Hopkins was closed decades ago for a few reasons, notably the unethical practices of one of its pioneering physicians. The study that furthered the decision only consisted of 50 individuals--hardly a great sample size. In short, I don't think those decisions (made in the 70s, I think?) really speak to current medical guidance.

[Mrs Mungo]

Not everyone who is gender creative as a child (or an adult) is in need of medical intervention. Fewer probably would need it if our society was more tolerant and accepting of people who blur or cross gender lines, whether at age six or sixty. Fewer would die.

Transgender and otherwise gender creative kids are mentally healthier and less likely to commit suicide if they are accepted for who they are and not forced into boxes that don't fit them. That alone should be reason enough to not base "the nail polish question" on whether the child is a boy or a girl.

Right. I believe (and you may disagree, Ravin, you obviously have a very different experience than my own) that we might not even need terms like "transgender" as much, if society was more accepting that some boys (even some who like girls) like sparkles and being fabulous while some girls (even some who like boys) like to wear jeans and play sports. Forcing people into boxes is the thing causing the issue. Allowing kids to wear nail polish or the color pink is not the hint actually causing it to be an issue.

[Corraleno]

The program at Johns Hopkins was shut down when Paul McHugh, an advisor to the Vatican, was made head of psychiatry there. He has stated that he believes that gender is not something that can or should be changed, that he believes male-to-female transgendered people are basically just mentally ill homosexuals, and that their mental illness should not be "supported" with hormones and surgery.  Even though he admits that the majority of the patients who were treated there expressed satisfaction with their surgery, and very few regretted it, he cites the fact that the surgery didn't solve all their problems as evidence that it wasn't worth it and should not have been done. He used his position there to further his own agenda.

 

[BrookValley.]

I really don't understand what gay or transgender issues have to do with the thread. Some guys like stuff that is widely considered today to be more on the feminine end of things. It *hasn't always been true* that those things were considered feminine. These are NOT universal ideas. Plenty of woman loving men who are comfortable with being men like some things that other people would say, "nope, that is for women." Besides which, we are talking about young men! If the worst way they "rebel" (if that is true, which I don't think it necessarily is) is by wearing nail polish, then I would consider that a win for parenting.

 

I have a female friend who never wears dresses, has short hair, doesn't wear makeup, loves sports and so forth. She has been happily married to one of my dh's best friends for 15 years. Liking sports and not dresses doesn't make her transgendered or gay. These are completely and totally separate issues.

(sorry for multiple posts, can't multi-quote on phone)

 

I agree. Gay or trans shouldn't have anything to do with this thread.

 

I've seen my husband in a skirt. Dude loves a maxi skirt. I assure you he is all man, no questions in either of our minds there. No, he is not a cross-dresser and no, he has no gender identity issues.

 

I think we put ourselves in very small boxes when something like nail polish or clothing choices can illicit such negativity, even hate. It's unfortunate that others force themselves into small boxes to avoid that negativity.

[LucyStoner]

The reason that transgender issues came up in this thread is that a couple of posters have made remarks that conflate the original topic with either being gay or trans or even conflate being gay with being trans and people have responded to those ideas.

 

I think the reason that some people react so strongly against non-normative choices is rooted in the idea that it does have something to do with gender and sexuality, when for most people it does not.

[Corraleno]

I really don't understand what gay or transgender issues have to do with the thread. Some guys like stuff that is widely considered today to be more on the feminine end of things. It *hasn't always been true* that those things were considered feminine. These are NOT universal ideas. Plenty of woman loving men who are comfortable with being men like some things that other people would say, "nope, that is for women." Besides which, we are talking about young men! If the worst way they "rebel" (if that is true, which I don't think it necessarily is) is by wearing nail polish, then I would consider that a win for parenting.

 

I have a female friend who never wears dresses, has short hair, doesn't wear makeup, loves sports and so forth. She has been happily married to one of my dh's best friends for 15 years. Liking sports and not dresses doesn't make her transgendered or gay. These are completely and totally separate issues.

 

They're separate issues to those who genuinely understand the issues, but I think the whole reason that boys wearing pink or nail polish or whatever is an issue in our society is because many people don't understand that they're separate. Far too many people assume that (1) if a boy wears pink or nail polish or a skirt (that isn't obviously Scottish, lol) he must be gay and (2) being gay is a horrible thing. For many boys and men in this country, being called a faggot is just about the worst insult possible. It's become increasingly acceptable for women to wear traditionally male clothes and to exhibit "masculine" traits, but boys are still bullied mercilessly for any traits that are seen as "weak" or feminine. I hope that will change someday, but I think there will always be a large segment of the population (at least in this country) that will never accept it.

[LucyStoner]

Correleno, I agree. When my older son picked a red and pink Seattle Mariners cap out, I was literally asked why I would allow him to do that because "won't people think he's gay?" Um, he's (at the time) 5.

[IsabelC]

Correleno, I agree. When my older son picked a red and pink Seattle Mariners cap out, I was literally asked why I would allow him to do that because "won't people think he's gay?" Um, he's (at the time) 5.

 

Did you point out that 

A. It's OK if he turns out to be gay;

B. It doesn't matter what people think; and

C. HE IS FIVE YEARS OLD.

 

Or was it a "Pass the bean dip" moment?

 

Ps - Why does it have to be bean dip specifically?

[IsabelC]

They're separate issues to those who genuinely understand the issues, but I think the whole reason that boys wearing pink or nail polish or whatever is an issue in our society is because many people don't understand that they're separate. Far too many people assume that (1) if a boy wears pink or nail polish or a skirt (that isn't obviously Scottish, lol) he must be gay and (2) being gay is a horrible thing. For many boys and men in this country, being called a faggot is just about the worst insult possible.

 

I have wondered whether the whole "boys should be boys, girls should be girls" attitude was nothing more than thinly disguised homophobia and/or misogyny. But I think there is more to it than that. 

 

 

I found the case of the "genderless child' to be fascinating in that regard. (I am aware that this has happened more than once - the one I'm thinking of happened a few years ago.) I do not particularly advocate raising genderless children, but I thought it was quite instructive to observe the level of consternation caused by not revealing the s3x of the child to random strangers. Reactions ranged from bewilderment to outright disgust, anger, almost panic. "Help! We can't put this kid in the blue box or the pink box! The sky is falling!" Allegations of "child abuse" were flying. 

[mommymilkies]

I have in the past, but he doesn't like that now.  My oldest dd doesn't, either. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

The reason that transgender issues came up in this thread is that a couple of posters have made remarks that conflate the original topic with either being gay or trans or even conflate being gay with being trans and people have responded to those ideas.

 

I agree that is why. I am just rejecting that notion.

 

I think the reason that some people react so strongly against non-normative choices is rooted in the idea that it does have something to do with gender and sexuality, when for most people it does not.

Meh, ultimately, I guess it is a good thing I don't understand that mindset.

[LucyStoner]

I have wondered whether the whole "boys should be boys, girls should be girls" attitude was nothing more than thinly disguised homophobia and/or misogyny. But I think there is more to it than that.

 

 

Honestly I don't even consider it even thinly disguised.  Saying that a boy wearing pink makes him gay or what not is both an anti-gay and misogynistic statement.  Maybe that is not all that is there, but it is the bulk of what is there IME. 

[LucyStoner]

I agree that is why. I am just rejecting that notion.

 

 

Meh, ultimately, I guess it is a good thing I don't understand that mindset.

 

 

I don't agree with that mindset but I do understand it because I've seen it up close and personal so often.  I think understanding it is key to undoing it honestly.  I know a lot of people who have radically changed their opinions and become more accepting of things like boys wearing pink.  Certainly no one can say I don't reject gender strictures. 

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

DS liked to have his nails painted when he was younger, usually electric blue.  He prefers dark clothes.... doesn't even like bright blues or reds but if he did then NP.  My nephew (same age as DS) will only wear bright colors his favorite is hot pink (he's a ginger) I love that about him.  He plays football is on the swim team and has had several "girlfriends", honestly he's the kind of kid who just doesn't care about what's acceptable.  If he likes it he wears it, including nail polish, skinny jeans, and earrings.  He got his school to change their dress code over several different policies that were sexist.  It helps that he's a good kid with a extremely high IQ, everyone adores him.

[kiwik]

 

No really it is a color. Not a colour!

 

Not here definately colour, and neighbour and plough.

 

Anyway I don't wear nail polish but my boys like it and have come home from kindy (preschool here) and other peoples house with it on. I am trying to get ds4 out of pink girls underwear before he starts school and I am hoping he will choose a colour that is not bright pink or lurid purple gumboots this winter. On the whole I don't care very much. Both boys did preschool ballet but ds4 only did one term then decided not to go on (he loved it until the teacher was away one week) but they are very active physically brave kids.