Moxie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 This is an issue between me and my BFF every year--I'm not changing my mind and neither is she! We live in a town that is about 90% Catholic. Of the 90%, probably 80% of those only see the inside of a church on Christmas Eve. It is crazy full! Here's what happens at Christmas Eve Mass--people (including my friend), will get to the church an hour early with a bunch of coats, spread the coats on a pew and "save" the pew for their family. Then, when I get there with my whole family 30 minutes early (which is really pushing it for the amount of time my kids will sit and wait), we have trouble finding a place to sit. About 5 minutes before or after Mass starts, my friends grown children and lots of other young adults swagger in to take their saved seat. I've told my bestie that I think that that is terribly rude. She disagrees and says I could do the same thing. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom2834 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I would not save more than a seat or two. If my whole big family went an hour early I wouldn't feel bad about saving a seat for a grandparent or something but I wouldn't save more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Sorry, I agree with your friend. Send one adult from your family earlier. I think it's incredibly unfair to tell a family that had the presence of mind to send someone early to reserve some seats so they can sit together that they shouldn't be able to do so? It's not super nice in a church setting, but of course families want to be together on Christmas, families have out of town guests, etc. FTR - I have a kid that does theater, and I am known to get to the theater when the doors open and set down coats when the seating is general admission. It's not fun to arrive that early. I'd love to traipse in 10 minutes before the show and get decent seating, but unfortunately, it doesn't often work out when we do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I have saved a seat but not a pew, lol. Really it's the church's issue for allowing one person to take up an entire pew for an hour on Christmas Eve. If they actually enforced that seats cannot be saved that way, it would solve the issue :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I have zero problem with someone saving a few seats, but I do think it's rude when one person shows up and saves a row or more. We just dealt with this at a middle school concert. A few single people showed up and each saved entire rows for people that walked in right before and some even after it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I would lean toward rude but hey if the church allows it... You could suggest the church take a page from synagogues and sell tickets to big masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Are you saying that when they save a pew for their family, that more people could squeeze in, but they wouldn't let them? That would be rude. If their entire family neatly fits into a pew, and they want to save that pew for their family, I don't see how it could be rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 When it's adults or teens saving seats for each other at functions, I think it's incredibly rude. Grow up and all wait in line. But kids are a different story for me and I'm more forgiving of saving seats so kids don't have to all wait without being too squirmy for an extra hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Really it's the church's issue for allowing one person to take up an entire pew for an hour on Christmas Eve. If they actually enforced that seats cannot be saved that way, it would solve the issue :) Since that hasn't been the policy at any church I've ever attended, there's nothing to enforce. It's been customary, and socially acceptable, to save seats at Midnight Mass since at least the 1930's, so it's hard to up and declare it rude now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think it's fine to save seats for your immediate family. Saving an entire pew (unless it's a short one, and just big enough for your family) is obnoxious IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 It's frustrating that it's so logistically difficult to attend Christmas Eve mass. I finally found a little, unknown place that I will take my big kids to after the little ones are in bed, but the Catholic churches in my area (not a particularly Catholic area, so not a lot of churches) are more than overflowing. On more than one occasion, we couldn't even find parking in the surrounding neighborhood, let alone the church parking lot, so with no hope of actually getting into the church even for standing room, we turned around and went home. As for the saving of seats, that's something my mom would do for sure; LOL I'm pretty sure that happened at some point when I was growing up - right up front, too. I'm not a big fan, but then I don't like sitting up front, and I'd feel bad coming in to a seat when all those people who got there first are standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I have never attended a church with noticeable seat savers. A spot or two for older and younger people, yes. A pew? No. It's a church. Isn't it about a larger concept of family and community? Sitting apart from your adult relations isn't a problem. You will see them, presumably, after the service, the next day or even during the peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 It has never occurred to me to do such a thing and I can't say I've seen it done either. I would find it rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathkath Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Welcome to our church! Don't you DARE sit anywhere though. RUDE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Also I took the kids to an open seat play and all the seats were taken, many just saved with coats. So we sat on the floor. Come performance time, no one showed up to sit there and we were stuck sitting on the floor unless we wanted to be disruptive. That is totally unacceptable. People need to release their saved seats just before the event starts or just not save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Since that hasn't been the policy at any church I've ever attended, there's nothing to enforce. It's been customary, and socially acceptable, to save seats at Midnight Mass since at least the 1930's, so it's hard to up and declare it rude now. Not in any church I've attended. Why would that be ok? If a group wants to sit together and have a good seat, come early. How is that so hard? If my family comes early and can't sit in an empty pew because someone else who is home relaxing gets to waltz in later and take it...that would really annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upward Journey Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't see the problem if they're actually using all the seats that they saved. I mean everyone else has the same exact option, they could also send someone ahead of time to save seats {shrug}. I only think it's rude if you save seats and then they go empty, that makes me mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't think it's rude to save seats for family members that you know are going to come. It seems to me that it's much nicer for families to sit together. I'm one of those people who come at the last minute and sometimes have to stand. It never occurred to me to be irked at family saving seats for family. Why would I want to sit with someone who clearly wanted to sit with someone else? The idea of getting between family in that way would make me feel terrible. I'd rather stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in SJ Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 This is how we deal on regular Sundays. Our family arrives early and I park my behind in the pew with all of our stuff. Dh takes the kids to the bathroom, they get drinks, and he lets them run around on the lawn if the weather is nice or the gym if it is not nice. They socialize with their friends in the foyer because I prefer they don't socialize in the chapel. I get some peace in the chapel to pray, think, read etc. I guess it looks rude when people come in and I am holding down a pew space that fits our family but my family isn't in it yet. Now, since having teenagers who can drive I have had the lovely experience of having one or both of my teenagers careen through the door with one second to spare and plop down in our pew but it is very rare & I am just glad they have chosen to attend with the family. On Sundays that are special meetings and there could conceivably be many, many more times the usual attendance, I always volunteer to go early (an hour to 90 minutes) and save us seats. Usually I have a choir performer who has to be there early anyway. When we know it is going to be very full we even save seats for the elderly couple in our congregation who can not get there early. They are 92 & 87 years old and they take forever to get ready & go anywhere. I have no problem saving a nice cushy pew space if they are brave enough to sit with my crazy family. Amber in SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I agree with those who said it's ok to save a few seats for immediate family but not a whole pew for a bunch of people. Our parish will make an announcement about 10-15 minutes before mass starts that they are going to have ushers start seating people in those saved seats. On Christmas Eve we get to church about 1.5 hours before mass starts and we aren't even close to being the first ones there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Rude. If they all want to sit together, they should all arrive on time and together to do so. I think seat saving in a Church is very tacky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Rude, rude, rude. And tacky. Saving a couple of seats for your young family members who are in the bathroom or coming in from the car is one thing. Saving a whole bunch of seats for adult people who could be on time if they bothered to...yeah, that's not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Not in any church I've attended. Why would that be ok? If a group wants to sit together and have a good seat, come early. How is that so hard? If my family comes early and can't sit in an empty pew because someone else who is home relaxing gets to waltz in later and take it...that would really annoy me. not an official rule per se, but a courtesy. my church has announced on many sundays for people to squeeze in & make room for people coming in. they have also announced that 1st and 3rd service have more room than the second service - if anyone was willing to switch services in the future to open up seats it would be greatly appreciated. if people were coming in and couldn't find a place to sit (especially on christmas eve when everyone knows it's going to be swamped), yet there is an entire empty pew saved, it doesn't make sense. at that point, family should be there. it's unfair to be looking for a place to sit with an entire line of coats telling you "no room here". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 To me the thing is, that line of coats is not behavior I'd expect in a church. Go away, not welcome, MINE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 poppy, i'm sorry. i quoted you when i was meaning to quote someone else (that had quoted me). i don't know how to change it now though :o i agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Gee, that's a toughie. If they are saving for the very young and/or very old, then I wouldn't mind. Teens and able bodied adults can come early enough to get a good seat if they want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 When I had a theater kid, extended family members always seemed to expect me to save them a seat. Then they would arrive just as the show started, or even late. I felt rude and it was rather embarrassing and even nerve wracking as there were times I thought they might no show and leave me sitting surrounded by a bunch of saved empty seats. So I just stopped saving seats. They learned to arrive earlier. I won't go so far as to accuse others of being rude to save seats, but I can tell you that I felt rude whenever I did it. I will now save a seat for my dh if he is late arriving from a work commitment, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelotmom Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Saving a reasonable number of seats when it isn't practical for all people to arrive simultaneously isn't rude. Saving a whole pew after it starts to get crowded so that other people can arrive at the last minute when there's no pressing reason to do so is rude. Though honestly, if I'm going to get there early, I'd rather be there with a handful of seat-savers than jam-packed in for the full time until it starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Ha! I save an entire pew. And it's all for my immediate family. If I don't get there an hour early, there's no where a mother with 10 kids can sit with all her kids. And it's midnight. I'm spoiled bc I absolutely want a pew with all the kids instead of finding myself chasing little ones the entire time. Now if a few minutes before things start up there are gaps, usually an usher will come through with the pregnant couples, babies and old folks and politely ask if there's any way you could please move a few coats for them. Some people do and some don't. I haven't seen people do it and insist on leaving it empty even when a few minutes in no one has shown up. That's just mean IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 So explain to me again, why saving seats would be rude? And I mean just saving the seats in itself. Seating "wide" and not letting others seat next to you, or arriving late for those saved seats is obviously rude. But saving the seats, so that the rest of the family could arrive closer to the start, can't possibly be rude? What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I'm surprised at how many people think it's "on time" to be an hour or more early. I would never come that early, even alone, let alone drag my whole family. I'd rather stand for an hour than sit for 2.5 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 So explain to me again, why saving seats would be rude? And I mean just saving the seats in itself. Seating "wide" and not letting others seat next to you, or arriving late for those saved seats is obviously rude. But saving the seats, so that the rest of the family could arrive closer to the start, can't possibly be rude? What am I missing? In this situation, I think it is rude to keep people who are there from finding a seat because your adult child, who doesn't want to be there anyway, can't be bothered to get there early or even on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 No comment on whether it's rude or not, but I remember at least two Christmases where our priest told people they would not be allowed to save seats for people that weren't yet there. We had huge problems with almost a third of the church being saved, and people not able to find any place sit and standing while there were empty seats. I would only save a seat for my father when he was living. Other than that, I won't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Yeah, when I talk about seat saving being rude it's not for kids or the elderly. It's also not for those who are just outside the doors hanging out. I'm talking about people who show up way early and stake out seats for who show up just before the whole thing starts. I've saved a seat for dh because his work schedule doesn't allow him to get somewhere too early, but that's one seat. I've never even thought of saving seats for grandma, grandpa, aunt, uncle, cousin, and all their kids which is what I see often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 In this situation, I think it is rude to keep people who are there from finding a seat because your adult child, who doesn't want to be there anyway, can't be bothered to get there early or even on time. So if the adult child was there 2 hour earlier, preventing people from taking that seat, that is okay. But if he or she is not there, but someone is saving a seat for them, it is rude. I still don't get it. One has to personally suffer in order to be considered polite in church? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just socially inept, and I can't figure out how to see the above scenario as rude. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I've never seen anyone save seats an hour in advance at church. Theaters, yes. Concerts, yes. Church - no never. Either you all arrive early and sit together, or you get there late, divide up, and enjoy visiting with friends. I don't know that it is rude, but it has a bit of a weird feel to me. Then again, I guess we should all be thrilled that people want to be in church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megbo Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 At our church, it would be considered very rude. Saving a seat for Dad while he parks the car or Grandma who's arriving separately is fine, but saving more than one or two seats would not be okay. We have some very old, very cranky ushers who handle this type of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I just feel the whole point is going to church as a family on what I consider a family holiday. What is the problem? As long as the butts eventually fill the seat before the service starts, it hasn't caused more people to stand than would otherwise be standing. If folks don't necessarily care to sit together as a family, then fine, presumably nobody would bother to save a seat then. It would be irritating for someone to save a seat that eventually does not get used. That I do not understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Random thought - I wonder if people who attend regularly see this entire thing differently from people who only attend on holidays. (I'd start a poll if I had any clue how to do such a thing) Speculation only, based on nothing other than my own musings: Perhaps those of us who are in church every week don't feel as compelled to get "good" seats. Maybe we don't consider arriving early because we are used to our usual arrival time. Maybe we are so used to the relaxed feel of every other service that the sudden urgency for something available all the time seems odd. Okay, I'm going to bed now, obviously I'm thinking about this a bit too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 If they show up late it's rude not to move the coats. If they show up on time there is nothing wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 So explain to me again, why saving seats would be rude? And I mean just saving the seats in itself. Seating "wide" and not letting others seat next to you, or arriving late for those saved seats is obviously rude. But saving the seats, so that the rest of the family could arrive closer to the start, can't possibly be rude? What am I missing? Arriving an hour early to save seats--as in a whole pew--for adult people who could get themselves up and to church but can't be bothered, while people who are already there have to stand in the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Interesting point. I am a fairly regular churchgoer. I do not have a particular seat I care to sit in. It is rare that I have trouble finding someplace to sit, even if I arrive after the service begins. I don't think of getting a "good seat," whatever that means. Though there are times I try to sit on the end so I can see my petite girls when they are singing or performing in church. One Christmas I had such a seat (chosen in a pew that was otherwise mostly full), and then the pastors told everyone to slide closer together so latecomers could sit. So I could not even see the tops of my kids' heads as they did their thing up front. That was no fun. But if I were just visiting and we were not otherwise involved in the church, why not just sit wherever? Everyone can see and hear the pastor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I think people should follow the policy of the venue. If there isn't one, then it seems fair to save seats, though I think it's possible to go overboard and don't think people should be inconsiderate about it. If you know it will be like this, why don't you go to the church earlier? I was at my DD's recent concert earlier than I would have preferred and DH couldn't be there until closer to the starting time, but that's just how it works there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Random thought - I wonder if people who attend regularly see this entire thing differently from people who only attend on holidays. I used to attend my cousin's church for Christmas mass. The thing is for her weekly church service, she picks a time that does not have many people attending so if I were to tag along, there is no need for seat saving. For Christmas mass, everyone attends at the same time so she would have to save a seat for me and any other cousins that would like to attend too. For her church, the youth group would be the ones volunteering at the special/holiday mass so I won't be surprised if seats were saved for the teenagers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 So if the adult child was there 2 hour earlier, preventing people from taking that seat, that is okay. But if he or she is not there, but someone is saving a seat for them, it is rude. I still don't get it. One has to personally suffer in order to be considered polite in church? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just socially inept, and I can't figure out how to see the above scenario as rude. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. For people who are not yet even in the parking lot, it violates a basic habit that many people take for granted- first come, first serve. Wait your turn. Don't cut in line. Not first person there with a bunch of coats wins. Try and do this on opening night of a sold out movie like Star Wars or Harry Potter. Or save a dozen plus people a place in the entrance line. Ha ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Arriving an hour early to save seats--as in a whole pew--for adult people who could get themselves up and to church but can't be bothered, while people who are already there have to stand in the back? How do you know they can't be bothered? Maybe they have their own good reasons. If no one arrives for the saved seat at the service is about to start, then it is certainly rude not to remove the coats. My impression was that the question was about saving seats / pews prior to the service, not hogging them after the service starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 For people who are not yet even in the parking lot, it violates a basic habit that many people take for granted- first come, first serve. Wait your turn. Don't cut in line. Not first person there with a bunch of coats wins. Try and do this on opening night of a sold out movie like Star Wars or Harry Potter. Or save a dozen plus people a place in the entrance line. Ha ha ha. This reminds me why I hate going to the movies, and never go on an opening night. :D I haven't been in a situation where I had any impulse to save seats, or had a chance to observe others saving seats, in years. Aaaaaaaah, life is good. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 In a number of New York City churches, when it is a big holiday and seating is at a premium, saving is not allowed. The ushers patrol the aisles. It's fine to save a seat for someone who has left a coat and gone to the restroom, that sort of thing. But someone throwing a cost across a bunch of seats would not have success - the ushers would conduct other people into those seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Someone asked a question about how regular attenders feel when we walk in 15 minutes early and can't get a seat easily. To be honest pretty thrilled people came to the special service. We eventually get to sit somewhere, usually with other displaced regulars. I am always happy to see the church full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 We don't go to church, but I see this happen at other community events where I live, and I think it's incredibly rude. If you want a good seat, make the effort to sit your butt in it. Some of us make the effort to arrive early at events specifically to get a decent seat (or any kind of seat at all, in some cases) and it's aggravating when we still can't sit anywhere close because the seats are being taken up by one person and fourteen pairs of mittens or whatever. If you need to save a seat for Grandma, fine. But able-bodied adults, no. Like someone else mentioned, it's akin to cutting in line. It's rude for the same reason that you don't save a place for ten of your closest friends when you're waiting in line for a movie or at an amusement park. Though I imagine some people see nothing wrong with that, either. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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