Do you use an angry voice when you're angry?

[Aspasia]

I babysit three extra kids one day a week. Today one of them took dd's money and refused to give it back, so I calmly asked him to. He said it was his, that he found it. I explained that if he found it at our house then it wasn't his. He refused. Blah, blah, blah, details don't matter. Ultimately, my calm voice turned into a calm but stern voice and I demanded that he give dd her money. Did my voice sound angry? Sure. I think a stern voice generally conveys some sort of displeasure, right?

 

At that point, one of the other boys said to me, "You need to change your tone."

 

Now, I've seen these kids with their moms and from what I've seen, the moms are endlessly sweet, always trying to reason with these 3- and 4-year-olds. And the kids almost never do what mom is asking them to. It takes them15 minutes to get their kids into the car to leave my house, and that is usually because they end up offering them some sort of treat at home. In a situation like the one I was in today (and I've witnessed similar ones), these moms would have had a ten-minute back-and-forth trying to convince this boy that he needed to give the money back. Apparently they never use stern voices??? Is it not good enough sometimes to just tell a kid that he can't have what isn't his and he must return it?

 

Am I a mean old witch? I promise I wasn't yelling. Oh, I do yell sometimes (not proud of it), but I usually save that for my own kids. It was honestly just a stern voice. Am I crazy?

[JustEm]

Not at all!  But don't be surprised if at some point in time one of the moms gets mad at you for the way you speak to their child(not that its not appropriate) but some parents do not think it is and will get mad if someone speaks to their child in a stern voice.

 

BTW, if a child ever told me "You need to change your tone." and they were under my care they would immediately be sent to time out for being disrespectful to me.  If they were not under my care I would cheerfully tell them not to speak to me disrespectfully again. 

[AimeeM]

A 4 year old saying "you need to change your tone" isn't being disrespectful, imo - he's parroting what he's heard. He's likely been told the same, when he's used that tone of voice. Disrespect requires intent, most of the time, and this doesn't sound intentional.

 

 

Yeah, I'm one of those. Lol.

[Amira]

I've had the very same thing happen to me. It's not really my favorite thing to have a 5yo tell me that I'm not being nice because my tone isn't perfectly sweet. But I'm not really a perfectly sweet person, especially if you're driving me up the wall because you ignored me when I asked the first three times.

 

It is extremely rare for my husband to use a stern voice. He is somehow endlessly patient. I figure I'm just exposing my kids to a variety of parenting styles.

[Aspasia]

Not at all! But don't be surprised if at some point in time one of the moms gets mad at you for the way you speak to their child(not that its not appropriate) but some parents do not think it is and will get mad if someone speaks to their child in a stern voice.

 

BTW, if a child ever told me "You need to change your tone." and they were under my care they would immediately be sent to time out for being disrespectful to me. If they were not under my care I would cheerfully tell them not to speak to me disrespectfully again.

I was definitely shocked that he said it. My kids would never tell an adult what to do, especially one that wasn't their parent. And it isn't because we're a "yes, ma'am, no ma'am" kind of family. Not even close. But there's a line between adults and children and they understand it--adults can tell children what to do; children do not tell adults what to do.

[Cinder]

Sounds like you were being reasonable. The kid that told you to change your tone? That was out of line.

[AlmiraGulch]

I have zero poker face.  There is absolutely no question when I'm angry, and yes, my tone is reflective of that.  

[linders]

My stern voice is clearly angry and my really angry voice is loud and sharp, so you are doing better than me. Those moms will reap what the sow as the DC get older.

[craftymama]

I have the mean Mommy voice that makes kids stop dead in their tracks and I use it.  It crosses cultural lines and language barriers.  I've probably angered a few parents who were not that close to me though I've only ever had one parent approach me.  She just asked what happened and then reinforced what I had said to her daughter about taking turns. 

[Aspasia]

I have the mean Mommy voice that makes kids stop dead in their tracks and I use it.

Yep, that's why I use it. If you don't think I'm serious about the instructions I'm giving you, I'll turn on my stern voice and then you'll know. Honestly, I think it's a benefit to my kids. They can definitely tell the difference between a mere suggestion/request and a very serious directive.

[mom2myboys]

Sounds reasonable to me. Nothing wrong with a firm voice when the other request was ignored.

[QuirkyKapers]

Sounds like you handled it fine too me.  Did the child give back the money?  I wonder what they will tell their mom and how she will handle it.

[Aspasia]

Sounds like you handled fine too me. Did the child give back the money? I wonder what they will tell their mom and how she will handle it.

He did give it back. Right away.

 

Yeah, I don't know how the moms will/would handle it. I do know that I won't have a problem explaining it, and explaining that I use a stern voice when I mean business and it doesn't seem to be registering with the kids.

[Catwoman]

He did give it back. Right away.

 

Yeah, I don't know how the moms will/would handle it. I do know that I won't have a problem explaining it, and explaining that I use a stern voice when I mean business and it doesn't seem to be registering with the kids.

If you're going to be babysitting these kids, you and the moms have to be on the same page in terms of discipline.

 

That said, it's your house and your rules. If they don't like it, let them find another sitter who will let their children run roughshod over her.

 

I think you handled the situation perfectly.

[Gentlemommy]

I do with my own kids, but I wouldn't with someone else's kids. I'd simply say, "Ok, we will deal with it when your mom comes" and when their parent came, I'd say "little Johnny here has taken my dd's money. I asked several times and he refused to give it back. Can you please handle it?"

I don't think my kids would ever be disrespectful to another adult, however, sometimes they say things they don't even realize is rude. They are also super sensitive to the angry voice, and would be devastated if another adult used it with them. Like I said, they wouldn't be purposefully disrespectful, but some of the things I allow my kids to do (like remind me when my tone is unkind, question a decision, or counter with their own ideas for how to fix a problem) isn't kosher with other adults.

[Mergath]

I have one of those psychotically-quiet crazy eyes angry voices.  Which is, I've been told, much scarier than a normal stern voice. ;)

 

I know a few moms like that.  Fluttering around happily chirping even as their child is trying to stomp on someone's head.  I certainly don't think you did anything wrong.  I'd be more upset if my sitter DIDN'T speak sternly to dd in that kind of situation.

[bolt.]

I have a stern voice, but it's for parenting. I'd only use it in situations where (1) I had positional authority, and (2) the issue was of high importance. Over found/taken money at my house, I'd make a mild attempt, then postpone the issue until the parent could be involved.

 

I don't really put any thought into how other parents choose to do their own thing with their own kids, and if they enjoy putting their time and effort towards reasoning / rewarding -- hey, it's the two of them in that relationship, and it needs to work for them both. It doesn't need to make sense to bystanders.

 

I also don't think that all children need to respect me (though I can earn it) nor speak/act as if they respected me (as some sort of social structure power game disguised as manners). I might be a little ways "outside the box" on that one though.

[SKL]

Sometimes I'm told my voice is louder or sharper than I thought it was.

 

Mostly when I'm "angry," I don't say much at all.  However, when I'm stressed / frustrated with foolishness, I have been known to resort to an "angry" tone.  Like today when I told my kids to stop playing and start eating so they wouldn't be late to school.  They were having too much fun until I raised the volume markedly.  LOL.  I wasn't "angry," just needed cooperation and didn't have time to pussy-foot around until they decided to comply.  Of course they're my own kids.

 

With others' kids, when it gets to a certain point, I will pause and speak in a deep, but not loud, voice.  It gets their attention without me looking like a lunatic.  ;)

[JustEm]

A 4 year old saying "you need to change your tone" isn't being disrespectful, imo - he's parroting what he's heard. He's likely been told the same, when he's used that tone of voice. Disrespect requires intent, most of the time, and this doesn't sound intentional.

 

 

Yeah, I'm one of those. Lol.

 

I suppose it all depends on the 4 year old.  My 4 year old telling that to anyone would be pure disrespect.  He is old enough and mature enough to know you do not speak to adults that way.  Of course not all 4 year olds would.   But in my house they would still be going to time out to teach them you do not tell adults what to do. 

[SKL]

I remember one time when I was at Little Gym and some kids were throwing a beanie toy around in an unused classroom.  A dad was there with his very small infant in a carseat.  I told the kids to watch out for the baby.  Nevertheless, eventually someone whipped the toy within inches of the baby's face.  I automatically said "whoa" in that certain voice.  Everyone, including the adults within earshot, froze and looked at me guiltily.  LOL.  I really don't care who didn't like it.

[JustEm]

I was definitely shocked that he said it. My kids would never tell an adult what to do, especially one that wasn't their parent. And it isn't because we're a "yes, ma'am, no ma'am" kind of family. Not even close. But there's a line between adults and children and they understand it--adults can tell children what to do; children do not tell adults what to do.

 

Same with my kids.  Of course they slip up at times and get a time out for doing so and an explanation as to why they were put in time out.  We are not a yes ma'am, no ma'am kind of family either.  But kids telling adults what to do is not tolerated.

[Joker]

I do only rarely. I've been lucky with easy children and it rarely requires me using an angry voice to get them to do what they need to do. I definitely don't use it on those not my own.

 

I don't think kids telling adults that something is wrong, or that they shouldn't do something, is way out of line either. I want my dds to speak up if they think someone is out of line and their age shouldn't matter. Of course, I had an adult take advantage of me as a child and I wish I felt it was okay to tell them what to do. My girls have no problem with adults and follow instructions well (they're both in public school for middle school and loved by their teachers) but they also don't have a problem saying they think someone is out of line and that includes adults.

[redsquirrel]

I have a friend who never raises her voice and the more frustrated she gets the sweeter she sounds. It is just how she operates. Her kids are very well behaved. She is firm and clear and her kids are great. When her kid was at my house I did what to my kids is a very normal life "hey, stop doing that!" sort of thing in an annoyed tone of voice and her poor kid almost cried. I scared him. He's just not used to hearing angry voices and it really shook him. I felt badly and I apologized.

 

If a 4 year old told you to change your tone, then that is what that 4 year old hears at home. I don't think there was anything disrespectful in that. My guess is that they have a family that pays a lot of attention to things being said in a kind manner. I wish I was that sort of mom. I switch to my 'don't mess with me' voice a lot more often than I mean to, and honestly, a lot more often than is necessary.

[Aspasia]

I have a stern voice, but it's for parenting. I'd only use it in situations where (1) I had positional authority, and (2) the issue was of high importance. Over found/taken money at my house, I'd make a mild attempt, then postpone the issue until the parent could be involved.

 

I don't really put any thought into how other parents choose to do their own thing with their own kids, and if they enjoy putting their time and effort towards reasoning / rewarding -- hey, it's the two of them in that relationship, and it needs to work for them both. It doesn't need to make sense to bystanders.

 

I also don't think that all children need to respect me (though I can earn it) nor speak/act as if they respected me (as some sort of social structure power game disguised as manners). I might be a little ways "outside the box" on that one though.

See, I feel like when someone entrusts the care of their child to me, that gives me positional authority over said child, for that time. That's why parents are selective about caregivers, so they can choose someone whose style isn't offensive to them.

 

I don't care how other parents do their thing either...until it affects me. And again, when I'm in charge of a bunch of kids, I don't consider myself a bystander. The way their parents handle their misbehavior is kind of my business, to a point, because I am in a position for several hours at a time where I am responsible for handling their misbehavior. I can't reasonably table all the misbehavior until mom comes and then have her deal with it. These kids fight, hit, call names, take things from each other, and on and on, all day long. If their moms showed up and I presented them with a list of offenses to address, that would be ridiculous. And if I was paying someone to care for my kids and then I showed up to a list of offenses to address, I would wonder why on earth I was paying them. I obviously can't just ignore all of this behavior, so I have to do something about it.

 

Also, I don't agree with the idea of earning respect. People deserve respect because they are people. Children deserve respect because they are people, and adults deserve respect because they are people. I respect a kid's opinions and right to make certain choices, and they should respect my duty to teach/discipline them when they're in my care. I do also believe that certain positions deserve extra respect simply by virtue of position, and that is because those positions usually come with a great deal of responsibility toward the people who owe them extra respect, and/or they often entail greater knowledge/experience than the people who owe them respect (whether or not those people always agree with them). We respect the office of the President because whoever is in it is working his tail off for a relatively small paycheck, trying to do what he thinks is best for us. We respect police officers because they are putting their lives on the line to make our society an orderly and safe place. We respect our parents because...I don't think I need to go into detail on that one. Children respect adults because they do have more experience than kids do, and they're often in a position where they are working FOR the child's benefit. That doesn't mean adults always know more or have more wisdom, but it does mean that you respect people who are older than you are, especially when they are working/sacrificing to fulfill a responsibility toward you. I don't think it's a bad way for society to be structured. We should absolutely respect children, too--their autonomy, their opinions, their feelings--but that doesn't mean they get to treat us as if THEY are the authority/teacher/disciplinarian. There are people in charge and there are people who aren't. If we all treated each other the same way, it would be chaos.

[swellmomma]

I think you handled it just fine.  I would have done the same.  I have a stern voice when needed and do use it, even in the daycare, though it is generally reserved for dangerous behaviours or when kids are not stopping a behaviour when initially asked/told that could cause injury to another(like roughhousing).  Stealing in my home is never tolerated so I would have used it then, in fact I have used that voice a few times over the years with children who failed to respect the rules of my home (and most of them were simply visiting children who refused to listen to a stop), In those cases the stern voice included the warning that if they could not follow our rules they could not play there.  Now as for the comment, I would not be one to discipline a child that wasn't mine for that(though if one of my own said it, it would be considered back talk and be punished) I would however remind them that it was rude to speak to me in such a way and that they needed to worry about their own selves and not the situation with another child.  

[KrissiK]

Yes, I do. I used to be a teacher, so a some of my "voices" are loud, commanding and authoritative, but not angry. I don't usually get angry with kids other than my own. Then, they know it. And I don't think there's anything wrong with letting children know you're angry with them, if there's a good reason. I mean, as long as you're not being verbally abusive or out of control.... Good grief, the kid acts like a jerk then he needs to know someone is going to get mad.i'm not afraid to show my displeasure by my tone...

[Scarlett]

I have zero poker face. There is absolutely no question when I'm angry, and yes, my tone is reflective of that.

Yep. Just happened tonight. My 13 yo had me so mad I wanted to strangle him. Dh said my voiced was raised but not angry sounding.

 

Over all I am very expressive. As dh says he never has to worry what I am thinking.

[Megbo]

I can't make myself use an angry or stern voice, with kids or adults. I honestly wish I could. I worked as a camp counselor for five summers and encountered a several kids who just didn't listen to me, no matter how stern I tried to be. They really needed to see/hear that someone was mad for their behavior to change. Thankfully, none of our kids have turned out that way, or I'd be in big trouble! 

 

That said, if my 3yo stole money from your house and refused to give it back, I wouldn't have a problem with the way you handled it. I would also be okay with you disciplining for "You need to change your tone", because my kids know that children don't speak that way to adults. 

 

[happi duck]

That was your "teacher voice" kicking in...you have authority over them when they are at your house.  It's nice that it obviously was surprising for them to hear the stern voice.

 

The kid saying change your tone cracks me up...I might have laughed in his face at how absurd it was.  "You talkin' to me?"

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

The kid saying change your tone cracks me up...I might have laughed in his face at how absurd it was.  "You talkin' to me?"

I have an "I beg your pardon?" that is done with a startled look that works quite well.  

[SKL]

Honestly, I don't expect too much from a 3yo / 4yo.  But I agree that a smarta$$ comment about my tone would probably receive a reply such as "excuse me?  You are not the boss of me; I'm the boss of you right now.  You may not talk to me that way."

[ByGrace3]

I think you handled it fine. I have a 3yo that says sassy "disrespectful" things all the time. I can totally see her saying change your tone or something similar to an adult. She may not have know it was disrespectful before she said it, but she would have after! ;)

 

I also have a super sensitive 8 yo that cries when Grandma says things like "don't climb on the back of the couch." So I get the sensitive child thing...but it's the real world and adults are going to tell her what to do so I hug her and tell her, it's ok just don't climb on he couch. ;)

[mytwomonkeys]

I'm like you. I start off totally calm, but if I'm getting a lot of kickback from my kids, I absolutely will use a stern "don't mess with me" tone. I'm 42. I'm not going to endlessly debate with my 9 year old over something that has no room for negotiation.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Well, my regular tone isn't very sweet and when I'm angry....well....  I dislike that syrupy sweet, let's all be reasonable tone.  It just grates on me.  Let's be honest about our feelings.  If I'm angry you'll know.  Now I'm not talking about screaming or abusive language but stern.  If my kids EVER deemed to say something about my tone I would blow my stack.  For the record I don't mind if they  use an angry tone if they are angry.  Not shouting at me but anger is ok.

[QuirkyKapers]

I might have said something like, "I'll change my tone after you give me back the money".   I realize that could just create a standoff but sometimes these things just slip out of my mouth. 

[SKL]

In defense of parents who publicly keep an even tone when their kids are being bratty.  I always assume that nobody wants to hear me yelling or nagging at my kids.  I try to keep it to a minimum even though I can be quite expressive in our private spaces.  ;)  I will leave public places quickly if it is getting too ridiculous.  Thankfully that rarely happens.

[Guest]

I don't mind sounding like a Drill Sergeant when I mean business, because you know what? I mean business. Ballistic, wild screaming would be another matter (although I can't say that has never happened), but "I mean business" voice is a tool I have no problem using, with any child. And if a little kid told me he didn't like my tone, I would tell him he is not speaking respectfully to me. That would be firm-tone, too. 

[bolt.]

See, I feel like when someone entrusts the care of their child to me, that gives me positional authority over said child, for that time. That's why parents are selective about caregivers, so they can choose someone whose style isn't offensive to them.

 

Bolt: I agree that being a babysitter gives a person positional authority.

 

I don't care how other parents do their thing either...until it affects me. And again, when I'm in charge of a bunch of kids, I don't consider myself a bystander. The way their parents handle their misbehavior is kind of my business, to a point, because I am in a position for several hours at a time where I am responsible for handling their misbehavior.

 

Bolt: I'm a bystander when both me and the parent are present, so any time I'm observing their techniques, I'm bystanding, not evaluating -- unless I'm evaluating whether or not I consider myself capable of providing babysitting. I might also be learning 'what works for them' but if it's not working for them, or if it just wouldn't work for me, I don't really do any further analysis of their methods.

 

I can't reasonably table all the misbehavior until mom comes and then have her deal with it.

 

Certianly not. I was just thinking about whether I would pull out my stern voice in the situation you described, with the details you provided. In that situation, I'd put it on hold for the parents, rather than pushing the issue.

 

These kids fight, hit, call names, take things from each other, and on and on, all day long. If their moms showed up and I presented them with a list of offenses to address, that would be ridiculous. And if I was paying someone to care for my kids and then I showed up to a list of offenses to address, I would wonder why on earth I was paying them. I obviously can't just ignore all of this behavior, so I have to do something about it.

 

I'd do things about it, but if I couldn't be successful without using an angry/serious/stern tone frequently, I'd probably step away from the job.

 

Also, I don't agree with the idea of earning respect. People deserve respect because they are people. Children deserve respect because they are people, and adults deserve respect because they are people.

 

This kind of mutual respect I thing is very important, and I expect children to be learning and growing towards it in their preschool years. However, that's not the kind of "respect" that requires 'person A' to not tell 'person B' to try another tone. With mutual respect, the kind of respect that people get 'just for being a person' that would mean that anything 'person A' is free to do, 'person B' is also free to do. If there are things that 'person A' (an adult) can say to 'person B' (a child) that 'person B' (the child) is not permitted to say -- that's a different definition of respect. It's respect for authority, an indication of situation where one person has more power in the relationship than the other person.

 

Of course, with children, when one is in authority, there is a power dynamic, and there should be -- because the adult is empowered with the authority needed to care for the child.

 

I just don't think it is necessary for the child's words and tone to always reflect that with adults other than their own parents. Authority shifts and the role of non-parent adults can be confusing to children. I don't think it's a good idea to teach children to regard all adults as inherently authorotative.

 

I respect a kid's opinions and right to make certain choices, and they should respect my duty to teach/discipline them when they're in my care. I do also believe that certain positions deserve extra respect simply by virtue of position, and that is because those positions usually come with a great deal of responsibility toward the people who owe them extra respect, and/or they often entail greater knowledge/experience than the people who owe them respect (whether or not those people always agree with them).

 

I think all of that respect must be taught, instilled, demonstrated or earned. It's not the "duty" of a child to automatically intuit when and where deferential behaviour is required. Plus, the words and tone with which a child under my care responds to me are the last things on my mind if they don't respect me. If I believe they don't respect me, then I don't think they are likely to follow my instructions, and if they won't follow my instructions they are at some risk of danger until they learn to do so. Therefore, I'd focus my teaching there, and not worry about a bit of tone and poor wording in the way they express themselves during an argument.

 

We respect the office of the President because whoever is in it is working his tail off for a relatively small paycheck, trying to do what he thinks is best for us.

 

Yeah, I pretty much don't. I know it's something Americans do towards their/your president, but it's just not something that all cultures do towards their head of state.

 

We respect police officers because they are putting their lives on the line to make our society an orderly and safe place.

 

I respect police officers who *are* doing that, but I have no reason to believe that every person wearing the uniform is doing so.

 

We respect our parents because...I don't think I need to go into detail on that one.

 

You might want to. If you can't articulate it, it's hard to teach it to small children with concrete minds.

 

Children respect adults because they do have more experience than kids do, and they're often in a position where they are working FOR the child's benefit. That doesn't mean adults always know more or have more wisdom, but it does mean that you respect people who are older than you are, especially when they are working/sacrificing to fulfill a responsibility toward you. I don't think it's a bad way for society to be structured.

 

Respect them as people? Sure.

 

Use good manners? Fine.

 

Work on learning how to say what you need to say without being a little snot? Absolutely, but it's probably going to take more than the preschool years to get the hang of the skill.

 

But to actually teach the child to be deferential to every adult they meet? No, thanks. It's nothing but a social affectation in most kids who do it anyways.

 

We should absolutely respect children, too--their autonomy, their opinions, their feelings--but that doesn't mean they get to treat us as if THEY are the authority/teacher/disciplinarian. There are people in charge and there are people who aren't. If we all treated each other the same way, it would be chaos.

 

I just don't think so. I think if we all treated each other with true respect, there would be no need for additional verbal courtesies to emphasize which person has the most power in this relationship. Chaos is a pretty strong word for everyone just being nice all the time. (Says the Canadian!)

[KRG]

I think we do children a disservice if all they ever see is happy, cheerful.  I'm not nor do I think mom's should be crazy, screaming and hollering at their children.  Mine definitely know the 'mom' voice.  They've seen me happy, sad, tickled, mad, angry, silly...  How many people are just cheery all the time--I don't know anyone like that and I'm not going to pretend that I am.

[lorisuewho]

I have raised my voice, but I feel my most scary voice is when I get at the child's eye level and whisper sternly. The quiet voice is the one where they know they have crossed the line.

[Anne in CA]

I love kids and enjoy spending time around other people's kids. That said,  I don't bend over backward to "reason" with a child who just wants their own way. It doesn't teach the child to live in the real world.  I would be concerned to watch the children of people who have to give them a reward to get them in the car to leave daycare. I am surprised that this is the first time you have had to speak sternly to a child so used to getting what they want.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have raised my voice, but I feel my most scary voice is when I get at the child's eye level and whisper sternly. The quiet voice is the one where they know they have crossed the line.

I get very quiet and very precise.  My kids were nagging at me one night when I was speaking like that and my dh said to them, "You guys need to get a clue.  She's gotten very quiet.  That means she's about to blow!"  They listened to him.  

[Liz CA]

I get very quiet and very precise.  My kids were nagging at me one night when I was speaking like that and my dh said to them, "You guys need to get a clue.  She's gotten very quiet.  That means she's about to blow!"  They listened to him.  

 

Yup ,this. Worked like a charm here. :)

[Soror]

I can see this response being really rude and disrespectful or acceptable depending on your tone and theirs. I really don't like the idea of being told what to do by a child but I also want my child to know that they deserve to be treated nice and respectfully, even when they make a mistake, I think that is a more important lesson in the long term. I want my child to have healthy relationships w/ appropriate boundaries and you can be firm and nice.  *I'm just really sensitive about this right now though so I may be projecting. Only you were there and know about hte appropriateness and respectfulness of your behavior. 

[SKL]

Well, who am I to talk ... when my kids were 3, one of them was getting told off by the teacher, and the other one stepped up and said, "you know, my grandpa has a gun!"  LOL.