Am I asking too much?

[strange_girl]

I am second-guessing myself as a parent at the moment, and wanted your opinions :crying:

 

My DD5 has a positive allergy to work of any kind. Okay, I know she's young. But I'm not asking her to take over the housework, for goodness' sake!

 

She was told after getting up from quiet time to clean her room. She's been up there ever since just moping and not doing anything. :glare:  She insists she will not clean her room without my help, and I insist she will not come down and join us until it's pretty decently done.

 

The last few times it's been cleaned I've helped her, simply because she seems clueless about the whole process. So I worked with her and made sure she understood what I was asking her. Now, she's demanding I keep helping her. I'm sorry, but living in a family means pullng your weight, not getting a free pass!

 

All I expect her to do is throw her dirty laundry down the stairs so I can wash it, put her books on the bookshelf, pick up her toys, throw away the trash that she finds on her floor, and make her bed. She is capable and knows how to do it. But she's acting like I'm the world's worst mother.

 

Help! Am I asking her to do too much or is she just hedging because she doesn't want to do it? :confused1:

[bolt.]

Wow, yes! That's a giant mountain of tasks for a 5 year old -- and depriving her of relational support for the entire duration is really really dis-empowering.

 

You need to slowly transition this to 'her job' over the course of, like, half a year.

 

The first part if that is what you were doing: the fully assisted walk through -- but you don't just jump from that to "come down when you're done". Instead, transition to frequently visiting her and giving her one task at a time, with lots if encouragement, such as starting together, and her finishing alone (for EACH task) or visiting at the half-way point of longer tasks (in case she looses focus). Give he a high five at every sign of progress. Spend more time with her than away from her (for now) then in a while you can start shifting that balance.

 

She likely won't get past the need for individual task assignments until another stage if development (like 7?) and I don't know if/when they get past the need for high fives of accomplishment.

[Arcadia]

All I expect her to do is throw her dirty laundry down the stairs so I can wash it, put her books on the bookshelf, pick up her toys, throw away the trash that she finds on her floor, and make her bed.

She is 5 and it is a long list.  It would take me forever to get your above list done.

 

1)  throw her dirty laundry down the stairs so I can wash it - could you give her a basket or container to put all her dirty laundry in?  that would speed things up and make it more manageable

2) put her books on the bookshelf - how long it takes depends on how many books were on the floor. 2-3 books and my kids would do it. more and they freeze before they start doing the cleanup

3) pick up her toys - depending on the mess, it can take 5 minutes or forever

4)  throw away the trash that she finds on her floor - does she has a trash can in her room or she would need to make trips to the trash can. if she has a trash can in her room, that would be a reasonably fast task.

5) make her bed. - that will take my kids 5-10 minutes depending on how pretty they want their beds to look.

[Catwoman]

You are asking for WAY too much.

 

She's only 5.

 

I'm pretty sure there are quite a few teenagers who would mess up if asked to do all those tasks.

 

And FWIW, I really object to the attitude that a 5yo shouldn't "get a free pass." You're raising a child, not a slave. And you're banishing the kid to her room until she does all of those chores??? I'm sorry, but that is mean, mean, mean!!! You need to be right there with her, for the entire time, working with her on every task.

 

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but I think you really need to lighten up on the poor kid.

[Harriet Vane]

I agree with Bolt. This is too much for a 5yo. Of course she is capable, but she needs more guidance.

 

Give her one task at a time. Tell her "good job" when she has done that task.

 

This will take a long time. Helping her once and then expecting her to complete this perfectly is too much. She is behaving in just the way an overwhelmed child would be expected to behave. Housework should be an ongoing process together, over the long haul.

 

FWIW I have done this with my children. Both of them were trained and able to do their own laundry from a very young age. Both can clean the entire house if need be (though my 12yo would need me to at least write him a list). I have terrible tendonitis and a sprained thumb right now, and my 16yo is able (and willing, bless her sweet heart) to cook a full family meal every night. She's been doing it for most of the summer. My kids are no slouches when it comes to work, but it took time and incremental training to get there.

[TammyinTN]

If it were me...I would be in there helping and giving her directions....sort of training her to do it all when she's older.  

[Whereneverever]

I think when your oldest is five it feels big enough to really help. It's a big job and it's a bigger job to do alone. I don't think wanting help around the home is a bad thing but I also don't think a five year old needs to worry about pulling their weight.

[bolt.]

I forgot to say: hugs to you! Patenting 5 year olds (or anybody) isn't easy. I know how it feels in those moments of, "Why can't she just be capable of xyz!?! I feel like I have to handle everybody's issues and stuff and everything, and I'm only one person!!! Can't ANYthing just be someone else's job for 3 seconds????"

 

Those moments feel terrible -- and I want you to know it does get better. I answered your question, but I want you to feel supported too. I'm sorry it's one if those days for you.

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

She probably feels overwhelmed.  If I look at a messy room, I sometimes feel overwhelmed by the prospect of doing it all myself, and I've got decades of experience.  5 really is too young to be able to complete all those things without frequent "suggestions" of what comes next and some side-by-side encouragement.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Are all of these in one large block or smaller blocks throughout the day?  If you broke the blocks into more manageable chunks, she might balk less.  Plus, make it fun.  5 year olds love games!

 

*First thing AM:  Make bed and toss toys into large toy box or basket

 

The bed making can be easier if she just has a bottom sheet and blanket that can be pulled up.  No tucking.  Put pillow and one stuffed animal on top.  You can even post a photograph of her made bed and toy basket.  Tell her to just make it match the photos.

 

*After school time pick up books and replace on bookshelf.  Pick up trash. 

 

You both can race to see who can fill their can or sack first.  This can precede snack time or lunch for extra motivation.  ;)

 

*PM: When changing for bed toss clothing down stairs or into laundry basket placed in changing area.  In the am pj's can be stashed under pillow or placed in designated area.

 

 

 

 

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

And, yes, it can be frustrating when you feel like you have a mountain of stuff to get done.  :grouphug:

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

Try to keep in mind, too, that confining her to her room, probably feels like a punishment and you don't want her to equate doing chores with being punished---I like Excelsior's idea of making it a game.  We can all find some fun in the mundane things---even if it just means singing a silly song while we do them.

[Skadi]

For what it's worth, I don't think you're asking too much. That list of things is standard for our household at ages 4 +, with the only difference being that they must wash their own clothes. (For safety's sake, I should note that we do not keep bleach within arm's reach or anything like that.) They get consequences for whining or dawdling. We're not a "military" household, either. I think it's just a matter of what expectations you have for your children influencing what they are truly capable of. Even as little as half a century ago, children helped around the house a lot more than they do today.

 

If I were you, I'd try to pinpoint the real issue going on. Is it that she can't remember all those things she's supposed to do? If so, a visual checklist could help. But I suspect that it has more to do with laziness, since you've always helped her in the past. In that case, I would tell her she has half an hour (or whatever time you think reasonable) to complete these tasks and if she decides to be disobedient and lazy, then she will face serious consequences. What that looks like exactly depends on your parenting style--for us, it could mean taking away anything you have to pick up for her (any clothes on the floor, toys, etc.) for a month. If you're not responsible enough to take care of your things and keep them clean, then you shouldn't have them to begin with.

[aggieamy]

I've started expecting that of my 9 year old but only this year.  Before that she would have needed my help to have it done to my standards and I've got a fairly tidy kid.  At that age I would either help or break it into smaller tasks. I also have a very low tolerance for whining about work so any time anyone whines about what I've asked them to do I offer to exchange to-do lists with them.  I have never been taken up on it.  It turns out taking your own laundry to the basement to be washed is a heckuva lot easier than mopping all the floors in the house AND scrubbing the bathrooms AND washing the laundry AND fixing three meals a day.  :glare:

[dirty ethel rackham]

Yes, you are expecting too much.  She's 5.  She needs supervision and guidance on how to do it. "Clean your room" is a very nebulous concept to a small child.  More concrete direct instructions are more helpful ("Pick up those clothes on the floor and put them in the hamper."  "Pick up all the Lego pieces and put them in this box."  "Put your shoes in the closet.")  Some kids struggle with that even at 10 years old. 

[Amy in NH]

 

Help! Am I asking her to do too much or is she just hedging because she doesn't want to do it? :confused1:

 

Yes, I think you are asking too much.   Having a big mess to clean is overwhelming to anyone, especially someone too inexperienced to know where to start.  When my kids were 5 years old, I sat down on the bed when the room needed cleaning and instructed each step of the process.  Then I learned that cleaning the room in the middle of the night when a sick kid vomits all over the stuff on the floor is no fun, and I started making them keep it picked up by putting things away each night before bed.  Constant frequent practice with small messes made it much easier and they got the hang of it much more quickly than the periodic cleaning of a big mess.

[strange_girl]

Ack! Okay, okay, I'm a horrible mother :crying:

 

 

:sad:

[Hypatia.]

When my girls are cleaning their room my 5 year old needs specific directions.  I'll break it down into small jobs for her.  "Put all the dirty clothes in the laundry basket."  "Now put all the stuffies up in the net."  "Put all the toys back in the toy bins."  "Look around the edges of the room, see if there's anything up against the walls before we vacuum."  Otherwise, she just is at a loss for where to start and gets easily distracted by pretty butterflies.

[Harriet Vane]

Ack! Okay, okay, I'm a horrible mother :crying:

 

 

:sad:

 

No, absolutely not. You saw that things were not going well and took the time to stop and re-analyze. You are willing to change your approach. Good for you.

[PrairieSong]

None of my kids cleaned their entire rooms at age 5, all by themselves, not even the most responsible, hard-working ones.  You need to work alongside her, and you need to break up the tasks.  It's just too overwhelming for a child that age.  As someone else said, make it a game!  Put on some upbeat music and see if she can pick up all her stuffed animals and put them away before the song ends.  Then work on another task.  

 

She'll get there, but not at age 5.  It will take lots and lots of practice, you showing her exactly how to do things, and a few years to mature.  

[PrairieSong]

Ack! Okay, okay, I'm a horrible mother :crying:

 

 

:sad:

 

 

No way are you a horrible mother!!!  You are trying to figure out the best way to do things, and what to expect from a 5-year-old.  We've been there.  We get it.

 

You'll be fine mama.     :grouphug:   Just read through the posts and readjust what you are doing until it works for you and your little girl.

[Heatherwith4]

No you're not a horrible mother! I used to expect some crazy stuff out of my oldest, because I had no knowledge of child development whatsoever. (I'm not saying that's what you're doing - I'm just commiserating.)

 

I definitely agree about breaking it up into individual tasks, and you probably do need to stay with the child while they're doing the work. It stinks I know, but they are learning and they will get it eventually.

 

:grouphug:

[Joanne]

Ack! Okay, okay, I'm a horrible mother :crying:

 

 

:sad:

 

Nah. Just in a cohort with mothers who are old enough to be grandmothers to your oldest. :)

 

I'm glad you asked for feedback! It's common to expect bright and seemingly able kids to be able to perform duties such as you described.

 

But, typically, they can't and need companionshp and encouragement for years longer than we think the first pass through the stages.

It's not unilke a 2 year old who cognitively udnerstands "no" but can't access the impulse control to honor "no" consistently.

[idnib]

Those are the exact things I ask my 5 yo to do and she does them with some whining at first. But she is capable.

 

I would not list all of the things at once, however. Give her one task at a time. If that task is too big, break it down for her in parts of 5 (pick up 5 pieces of clothing first, then another 5, etc.)

 

So guide her verbally, support and encourage her, but let her to the physical tasks.

 

Unless it's a mountain of work, in which case help her get it done and make her do the tasks often enough it doesn't get like that again. Declutter if she has too much stuff to manage.

[Trish]

Five-year-old bodies can do all that, but 5-year-old brains are easily overwhelmed. It wasn't that long ago she was a fetus.

 

:grouphug:

[Excelsior! Academy]

You are NOT a horrible mother.  We expect that and more out of our 5 year olds.  Most people would cringe at our dc's chore lists.  You live here you contribute.  Many hands make light work.  I refuse to fall into the let children be children mentality.  My parents were divorced.  At one household we had reasonable chores and expectations at the other we did not.  The children from the first have gone on to lead fairly productive lives, at the latter they most decidedly have not.  While that is not the deciding factor of how well you do in life I see specific correlations in their particular lives.  Keep up the good work!  While I guarantee you and I are in the minority here, I personally believe you are doing the right thing.  You are new here, please remember the hive is a wonderful place for varied opinions and life choices.  Most probably don't wholly believe with one another.  If you ask for an opinion you are sure to get one, but it will stretch, challenge and change you for the better.  If you get advice you don't care for you are not obligated to follow it.  Blessings! :)

[bolt.]

Also, if you *can* think of this as something done helpfully, not something done punitively -- it might indeed be true that her quantity of belongings currently exceeds her capacity to care for her belongings.

 

One of my daughters positively thrives on an empty room that is therefore always tidy and never requires thought or attention. She got that empty room because she consistently stated that she'd prefer things to be removed rather than need to put them away. Which means, that, yes, I did follow up the idea that, "If you can't keep it tidy, you have too much stuff, and some of it should be gone, at least temporarily." -- but there is a difference between a threat-consequence and collaboratively finding a point of comfort. I didn't exactly expect her to say, "Yes, please, take it all away. That would be really nice. Can I go outside now?" -- but (I guess) that's the kind of co-operation you get when kids stop expecting you to punish them and start actually believing you are trying to help, and might be offering an actual solution for them to actually seriously consider.

[unsinkable]

She's five and you consider her a second grader?

 

If she is bright and doing second grade work, perhaps you're seeing an intellectual capacity that's not matched with a social and emotional capacity.

[Soror]

My dd at 5 could do this BUT I did a lot of training with her, help her keep her room decluttered and also have her do her room at least 1-2x a day so it is never overwhelming. I figured out with my daughter as well that she likes me to declutter. She is a crafter and she gets emotionally attached to everything she makes but she also really likes it to be nice and tidy. She likes me to help her clear things out.

[Catwoman]

She's five and you consider her a second grader?

 

If she is bright and doing second grade work, perhaps you're seeing an intellectual capacity that's not matched with a social and emotional capacity.

I hadn't noticed that -- and I agree with your assessment.

 

When you have a very bright child, it's so easy to have lofty expectations, and when that child is also the oldest, she seems "older" than she really is, even though she's really just a little kid.

[Garga]

I concur with the others about removing things from the room if it is truely too much for her to maintain. My boys were unable to keep the playroom clean. I asked them if they wanted me to store most if the toys in the attic andmthey said Yes. Wha...? I was shocked. I didn't think they'd take me up on it! So they picked which ones and we stored them in the attic and they thanked me. Thanked me! For putting their toys in the attic where they couldn't get to them!

 

Of course, that might not be the OP's issue. It sounds like she need to train her dd a little more before sending her off alone. When my kids were smaller I'd give them one job or one surface to handle at a time. (Surface = desk top, or bed, or part of the floor.). Now I will give them a written list of the job duties and they do them one by one.

[Catwoman]

Ack! Okay, okay, I'm a horrible mother :crying:

 

 

:sad:

No, you're not!!!

 

This is your oldest child, so she seems more grown up than she really is, and you're trying to teach her how to be helpful around the house. There's nothing wrong with that, and so what if you got a little overzealous? Your dd isn't scarred for life -- she will forget all about this in a few days (or less!)

 

Seriously, the fact that you wanted to know if you were expecting too much is the main thing here -- it shows that you're a loving and concerned mom.

 

Don't beat yourself up over this. Just try to remember that a 5 year old is still a very young child, and you'll do just fine. :grouphug:

[skeeterbug]

My just-turned-6yo thinks a clean floor=clean room. If I send him to do it by himself everything ends up under the bed, piled on the table, and pushed against the wall. ;) He definitely needs specific instructions, despite repeated 'training' we've done. It's just too big of a task, he doesn't remember how to break it down into smaller steps on his own. My 8yo, on the other hand, keeps his room perfect nearly all the time.

 

We expect so much from our oldest. It can be so frustrating. I don't think you are a horrible mom. :grouphug:

[strange_girl]

You are NOT a horrible mother.  We expect that and more out of our 5 year olds.  Most people would cringe at our dc's chore lists.  You live here you contribute.  Many hands make light work.  I refuse to fall into the let children be children mentality.

Yeah, that's how I am and that's where I'm coming from. I wasn't trying to convey that I treat my kids like slaves. :ohmy:  But I do expect them to do more than watch cartoons.

 

 

She's five and you consider her a second grader?

 

If she is bright and doing second grade work, perhaps you're seeing an intellectual capacity that's not matched with a social and emotional capacity.

Yes. She basically taught herself to read before she was four (I just helped her with some of the trickier phonograms), and ever since then I've been playing a frantic game of catch-up as she gobbles up curriculum faster than I can buy it. Oldest child syndrome, I guess. I think you may be onto something with how I see her menatl capacity and expect everything else to be just as advanced. :001_smile:

 

 

No, you're not!!!

 

This is your oldest child, so she seems more grown up than she really is, and you're trying to teach her how to be helpful around the house. There's nothing wrong with that, and so what if you got a little overzealous? Your dd isn't scarred for life -- she will forget all about this in a few days (or less!)

 

Seriously, the fact that you wanted to know if you were expecting too much is the main thing here -- it shows that you're a loving and concerned mom.

 

Don't beat yourself up over this. Just try to remember that a 5 year old is still a very young child, and you'll do just fine. :grouphug:

Thank you :o  You ladies have been great at supporting me even though I'm still a newbie. Guess today was just one of those bad PMS days...this evening DD was sweet as pie and told me how much she loves her room being clean :001_rolleyes:

[strange_girl]

My just-turned-6yo thinks a clean floor=clean room. If I send him to do it by himself everything ends up under the bed, piled on the table, and pushed against the wall. ;) He definitely needs specific instructions, despite repeated 'training' we've done. It's just too big of a task, he doesn't remember how to break it down into smaller steps on his own. My 8yo, on the other hand, keeps his room perfect nearly all the time.

 

We expect so much from our oldest. It can be so frustrating. I don't think you are a horrible mom. :grouphug:

 

Thank you :001_wub:  I'm feeling better now. I had something of a meltdown earlier (frustrating day) but I just needed to :chillpill: ...and maybe :nopity:  a little. Thanks for everyone's support :001_smile:

[fairfarmhand]

Tell her to do one thing at a time.

 

"Hey! Run upstairs and throw all the laundry down the stairs while I fix your cereal."

 

After breakfast, "I bet I can get these dishes put away before you get the books back on the shelf....1,2, 3 go!"

 

Later on, "Okay, I will set up the movie that you want, and while I am doing that, you go throw all the trash in the floor of the room in the can."

 

Break it up and try to make it fun.

 

BTW, we;ve all had those moments. It's okay!

[Isabella]

You're doing a great job!  It's a fantastic thing when you can re-assess your parenting methods, and ask yourself (or others) if you are expecting too much.  I think most parents will tell you it's a common trap to fall into to expect much more of your oldest than your youngest!  In fact, it's only when your youngest is that age that you realize that you were quite tough on your oldest. 

 

That said - I agree that they need, by this age, to start learning and being taught to fend for themselves, after all, it's only 13 yrs till she could be on her own, and training takes LOTS of time!  But unless you want to set her up for a lifetime of dread of housework (and it easily could when they are left with a large task and little encouragement), you need to give her lots of instruction, encouragement, and opportunities to help and imitate.  Even if you sat in her room for the beginning (you don't need to actually help), and give her the tasks broken down into chunks....eg..now pick up all the books..YAY...now pick up all the dirty clothes...YAY, good job! etc, etc. 

 

Then you can progress to going about your own chores elsewhere, and getting her to run down and report to you when each chunk is accomplished.  I agree with the other poster, that will probably never be a time when encouragement (high fives, great jobs, whatever) is not going to make it much more...well..encouraging..for your child! :-)  After all, we all still thrive on being encouraged in the same way, even on this board!

 

Good job! :-)

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ack! Okay, okay, I'm a horrible mother :crying:

 

 

:sad:

Nobody said that.  If you truly think that we are saying that or feel that as a response to the suggestions that have been made, then it is an over-reaction.  All most people have said is that if you want her to do all of that it's better to break it down into smaller tasks instead of telling her to "clean her room".  And that you don't isolate her while doing it.  Just a tweak that might make the difference between frustration for her and thus for you or success for the both of you.