Would you punish for this teenage behavior? If so, how?

[ChristusG]

Deleted, as I mentioned I would do. Thanks for all of the advice!

[Lily_Grace]

No, I wouldn't punish for that. The punishment becomes solely reactive and without merit. I don't punish feelings. I don't punish the expression of those feelings UNLESS it violates the rights of another. If a kid wants to scream in his room, fine. Tell his friends he's mad at me, fine. Stomp and sulk, fine.

 

I think you need to dig deep to figure out what, exactly, you're punishing for and what you expect to get out of it besides dancing on free speech.

 

ETA: in my house, I think I'd simply be setting ground rules for communication. Especially for the adults who seem to be dismissive to make it clear that a second side can be stated, listened to with a "that's an interesting point" and refuted with a simple "however, it needs to be done" or whatnot to end the conversation.

[beaners]

I would make it clear that if he is making that type of statement to people online, that could result in trouble with the law. Seriously.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't think I would punish for that. However, I would have a talk about how to behave appropriately, including how to disagree respectfully and how to use and not use social media. Once it is out there, it may not always be taken back.

[ktgrok]

If this is the first time this has happened I'd not punish. I would tell him that if he has something to say he needs to say it to your face. If not, leave it unsaid. Oftentimes things are better off left unsaid, or said later after cooling off. Teach him that, and you will have accomplished something. If this was a constant problem, Id' take away social media for a while.

[prairiewindmomma]

I wouldn't. Kid needs to learn how to control his feelings but still feel safe to express legitimate ones in a socially appropriate way.

 

If he kept repeatedly using social media in an inappropriate way, then we'd remove the social media....but from what you share, it just sounds like the guy needs some practice in handling frustration in a healthy way.

[Murphy101]

Nm

[Jan in SC]

I wouldn't punish for it. When he is calm and in a good mood, which it sounds like he is - most of the time, I would have a conversation about being careful with how you use social media.

 

This was not asked, so feel free to ignore, but I would be really careful about having a one-sided conversation with a 17year old. He is well past the -you do it because I say so- and don't you dare argue stage. Once again, I know you didn't ask, and I may have not understood the dialogue correctly.

[elfgivas]

a utah soccer coach just died having been punched in the face by a teen who didn't like one of his calls a week ago.

i'd have him read the article.

 

then i'd say something like, feelings are legitimate; violence is not. threatening violence is not okay, either. if what you meant was that you were really, really angry, then that's okay. if you really meant you want to physically hurt someone who loves you and houses you, then you need to leave. your call.

 

meanwhile, here are some tools you can use to help you work thru the anger. its tough being 17 in someone else's house.

 

fwiw,

ann

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Who does he talk to when he feels he can't communicate well with his uncle or you?

[jelbe5]

That is a hard one because you have several dynamics here: the fact that this young man will soon be a legal adult (though not a mature one) and the fact that he is not your child but a nephew to whom you have taken in.

 

Not knowing all the details of the disagreement makes it difficult to give advice, but this is what I would like to offer. My dd is almost 18. At this time I find discussing and negotiating with her, because of her almost adult status, is more effective than simply telling her not to argue with me. Don't get me wrong . . . the decision of the parents is still the main path here. However, giving her a voice and an opportunity to present her side has helped us greatly.

 

Now, you were on your way to church, so there probably was not a chance for discussion. So a statement such as the following would be good: "I'm sorry you are frustrated now. But it is time for us to leave. Later today I will be happy to discuss this with you." Follow-up would be critical as promised.

 

It may also be time for a real good heart to heart with this young man. He will soon be 18. He might be trying to stretch a bit here. What are your expectations for him? What are your rules should he decide to continue to live with you? Now would be the time to sit down and address these issues.

 

While I would not necessarily punish for the social media thing I would want to discuss this and encourage the airing of disagreements in a face to face way. I would expect and demand that from someone living in my home. I would also make it clear that, while you obviously love your nephew, he is free to leave and/or return to his mother if the current situation no longer suits him. That might sound harsh, but I think it may be necessary to make it clear that there are choices in this situation for everyone involved. If he chooses to stay with you he must give you the respect you deserve.

 

And I agree with others here that the threat of violence through social networking is inappropriate. It might be time for this young man to speak with a counselor and work on interpersonal and relationship skills. If he is living with you because his mother is unstable there may be issues he needs to address and work on if he has not already done so.

[poppy]

I'd let it go, it was an outlet he may have really needed. To obey a command and be really frustrated and angry is totally OK. I think it may even be better than "saying it to his face" in other words continuing the argument.

 

To have texted that message to a friend would have even been OK in my book..... it's not a threat of violence, it is an expression of frustration.

 

But it's worth talking to him about it just to let him know you are watching his tweets. He should know that, because, knowing you care about him and watch out for him is something he deserves to really understand and let sink in (even though it will really piss him off in the short term).

 

I would punish or threaten with consequences if you notice any sort of pattern with inappropriate use of social media, especially related to violence.

[swellmomma]

You don't punish for him tweeting his feelings. How many times have people on here vented on fb or on the hive about their feelings about someone including that urge to punch someone for how they made them felt. Instead I think your dh and nephew need to have man to man talk and get to the heart of the matter. Nephew is feeling dismissed when your dh says something like that. Punishing for feeling that way will only drive that wedge further. His mother may not have been the best parent, but honestly punishing for something like this (in fact dismissing a nearly grown man the way your dh did) is not great parenting either imo

[Forget-Me-Not]

 

ETA: in my house, I think I'd simply be setting ground rules for communication. Especially for the adults who seem to be dismissive to make it clear that a second side can be stated, listened to with a "that's an interesting point" and refuted with a simple "however, it needs to be done" or whatnot to end the conversation.

 

 

I very much agree with this. I think that kids need to be able to speak their piece and feel heard, even if the outcome is something like, "I see your point, however I need you to do X." I don't have teens yet, but when I do let my kids make their case, I'm often surprised to find that they have a relatively good argument or a point I hadn't considered :)

[Laurie4b]

When my oldest had hit adolescence, I asked an older (late teen/early 20s) homeschooled kid whom I respected for advice about what parenting practices were and weren't helpful. I have remembered and used his advice often. He spoke about no longer being an extension of his parents' thinking, but of realizing that he had his own thoughts and his desire to be affirmed in that.He said, "It really helped when my parents would concede that I had a point. Even if it wasn't "the" point, even if there was a better point, it just helped to be affirmed that I could think thoughts that were worth something."

 

I don't always put this into practice, but I do try. It is remarkable the effect it has when I do.

 

I totally understand (really, 3 teen boys at home, one not at home) that teen boy arguing can get on your last nerve and sometimes there is a time to just say, "Stop arguing."

 

But we've made the decision to just get through it, that if all of us survive, we've done reasonably well! We don't punish every single disrespectful thing. We just try to stay engaged, heart-to-heart. This, too, shall pass.

 

We would probably say that we had read it and that it hurt and leave it at that. No punishment.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I think tweeting it made him able to stay calm and not fight with his uncle, even verbally, right then. Safety valve.

 

Don't punish for a safety valve. Teach other options, discuss why saying that reflected badly on him, apologize for not listening better, tell him that you're human and cannot possibly always react with 100% fairness and attention, sometimes it's just time to stop talking for awhile but that doesn't mean you want to shut him down...

 

We have three teenage boys and one more in the wings. It's hard. Mine have learned that "We can't discuss this any more right this minute, this is how it stands for now" is code for "stop arguing, srsly, now's not the time and that's not negotiable, but you know I will bring it up again when we're alone later and you can tell me what you wanted to say."

 

But it takes years to get there, even with our own kids that we've raised from birth to know they can trust us to listen. I don't always indicate it patiently, they don't always respond perfectly, but that mutual respect is there. You've said dnephew is mostly a really good kid, sounds like he understands what you're trying to do for him, so please just continue to try. No punishments for safety valves, no "lines in the sand" that look arbitrary to him. My two cents.

[Parrothead]

Was the young man arguing or expressing his own point of view. I think arguing with children is a pointless exercise. But allowing a17-year old to express his opinion in a calm deliberate manner is good.

 

If the young man is shut down at every expression then I think his frustration may be warranted.

[ChristusG]

Deleted.

[Laurie4b]

 

 

It's hard parenting someone's child whom you didn't raise....and whose mother gave him no boundaries at all. Thankfully, he's really a good kid in most ways. Just extremely immature.

 

 

It's hard parenting a kiddo that age period, let alone someone else's kiddo. Kuddos to you and your dh for doing it!

[albeto]

I would agree that talking with him about the dangers of sharing threatening thoughts and fantasies on social media is problematic. It can invite unwanted attention and bring unforeseen consequences that can damage a future career.

 

Having said that, had someone turned to me and said, "Don't argue with me," I'd be livid. I interpret that comment to be condescending and arrogant, and I suspect your nephew does as well. Perhaps your husband wants to rethink how he treats the young man, because that kind of behavior is hurtful, which is probably the last thing your husband wants to be.

[texasmama]

There is much more at stake for this young man than his social media impulsiveness. This, IMO, is not a discipline issue. It is an opportunity to talk to him about his anger, the relationship you have, the loss of his parents as primary caregivers, the fact that he is relying on an aunt and uncle to essentially launch him into adulthood. What a mixed up place for a young man to be. I would sprinkle some grace liberally on this situation and use it as an opening for discussion.

 

If this were my own biological child, I would likely still not see it as a discipline issue, btw. (And I have a 17 year old.)

 

In the interest of full disclosure, my professional experience as a therapist drives me to always be conscious of the story under the story, but it doesn't take a therapist to see that his young man is carrying a whole lot of baggage behind him.

[Anne in CA]

No, I would not punish for that, although I would expect the post to be removed (if you can remove from Twitter, you can from facebook). You cannot make a young person remorseful, not through punishment. Remorse is a condition of the heart. My ds was very disrespectful to my dh a couple of weeks ago and he felt AWFUL, after he had all night to think about it without being hassled. Teenagers do not know better than to argue when you are on your way somewhere and the car is full of people. They don't have the "right time and place setting". It is hard for me to hold my temper with an ill timed teen myself. 17 is a very hard age for a young person. They can almost taste being on their own.

[zoobie]

Are there any seminars on social media awareness in your area? If he's not going to listen to you, maybe an "expert" would get the importance across to him? Making threats and publishing them is not smart. Young adults use twitter as a diary of sorts and don't seem to realize the ramifications. Not only for the immediacy of their actions, but future impact on jobs, etc.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

How is, "It makes me want to" a threat? Wouldn't a threat be more like, "I'm going to"?

 

Edited to add: I don't think what he tweeted was smart, kind, mature, or wise, but I'm not sure I'd classify it as a threat.

[Farrar]

Having said that, had someone turned to me and said, "Don't argue with me," I'd be livid. I interpret that comment to be condescending and arrogant, and I suspect your nephew does as well. Perhaps your husband wants to rethink how he treats the young man, because that kind of behavior is hurtful, which is probably the last thing your husband wants to be.

 

 

That was my first thought too. "Don't argue" is just so rude. It's like saying, "I don't care what you think" or "Because I say so." To a teenager, ack... It's just asking for trouble. I think parents (or, in this case, uncles) can be strict but also respectful. Your nephew inserted himself into a conversation when he shouldn't have. I would just tell him that. Saying, "This isn't the right time to talk about this" or "This decision/topic doesn't pertain to you" are more like what I would say.

[JFSinIL]

I wouldn't punish for it. When he is calm and in a good mood, which it sounds like he is - most of the time, I would have a conversation about being careful with how you use social media.

 

This was not asked, so feel free to ignore, but I would be really careful about having a one-sided conversation with a 17year old. He is well past the -you do it because I say so- and don't you dare argue stage. Once again, I know you didn't ask, and I may have not understood the dialogue correctly.

 

 

I am with Jan here - you can't just tell an older teen to in effect "hush don't argue I'm the grown-up". What the adult hears as a kid just arguing the kid may have thought was a discussion in which they were not being heard. Does this make sense?

[zoobie]

How is, "It makes me want to" a threat? Wouldn't a threat be more like, "I'm going to"?

 

Edited to add: I don't think what he tweeted was smart, kind, mature, or wise, but I'm not sure I'd classify it as a threat.

I misremembered his exact tweet. You are correct, it's not a threat. If it were to another brash young person, it could easily escalate. If I were a teenaged girl, that tweet would not impress me. And now, as an employer who googles potential employees, seeing that on his twitter feed would not impress me.

[regentrude]

No, I would not punish him. I'd be mad, but I am not sure what I should punish him for. For getting angry and venting his anger? He did not become physical, but controlled his anger.

He is 17, almost an adult. If I was told "don't argue with me", I sure would be angry, too.

[Joyofsixreboot]

No punishment. Kids need to vent too. I'd have called my best friend to say it but I'm old. I would probably alk about how not private social media is though.

[dbmamaz]

I think i would discuss why the 'want to punch you in the face' part is not appropriate, and that in the future that kind of communication might result in being banned from electronics for a period of time. Explain that esp posts about violence, or posts that are threatening or cruel, are not ok with you.

 

but its also important to acknowledge that your husband is expecting very quick obedience and its not something he has had experience before.

 

honestly, i sometimes stop my husband from disciplining my son - i feel like my husband jumps on him for nothing . .. he gets upset if my son says "Thats INSANE!" too often, goes berserk if he kicks the wall repetitively (its a tic) - instead of responding with a gentle reminder or trying to find a solution, my husband just raises his voice. is it possible that they need to sit down and talk about how to deal with issues so they both feel heard and respected?

[Lady Florida.]

I think tweeting it made him able to stay calm and not fight with his uncle, even verbally, right then. Safety valve.

 

 

I agree. If what you posted was exactly what he tweeted, then he didn't name names or give details. You and your dh knew what it was about, but others likely didn't. It seems like a reasonable way for him to vent.

[QueenCat]

This was not asked, so feel free to ignore, but I would be really careful about having a one-sided conversation with a 17year old. He is well past the -you do it because I say so- and don't you dare argue stage. Once again, I know you didn't ask, and I may have not understood the dialogue correctly.

 

:iagree: One sided conversations at that age are counterproductive. The "because I said so" and "you can't argue" is for young kids and primarily for safety issues. No, I would not punish for that but we would talk about consequences and what could have happened if someone feels threatened by his words.

[QueenCat]

 

So....glad that we didn't punish. I'm not sure exactly what DH said to him when they talked (I was at the grocery store), but I'll ask him more about that tonight. He just said that nephew seemed unconcerned and even seemed to smirk about it. We just want him to learn the proper way to use social media and to know how to vent his feelings in a good way. It's hard parenting someone's child whom you didn't raise....and whose mother gave him no boundaries at all. Thankfully, he's really a good kid in most ways. Just extremely immature.

 

To me, what I would need to know in your shoes is if they actually discussed it or my dh lectured. Two very different things.

[Remudamom]

nope.

[LostSurprise]

I think your approach was right but this caught my attention.

 

In my opinion, if you won't say it to their face (which he'd never say this to DH), then it shouldn't be put onto social media sites either. End of story. You can vent without vague status updates, name calling, and threats.

 

Your nephew is not in a stable, permanent place or respected as an equal adult. He can't be straight here, in the moment, without disobeying and possibly putting his current situation with you in jeopardy.

 

He obeyed your husband, but continued the conversation and told your husband how he felt through social media. He didn't include names to embarrass you. He wrote in first person because he was trying to face your husband directly (the only person who would understand the statement). He doesn't have the status to continue the conversation with your husband after he told him to get out of the conversation (that would be considered arguing), and he either respects your husband enough or likes his current situation enough to obey.

 

Subjects to bring up:

 

*how he can react respectfully in this kind of situation and get your attention

*does he feel he can express frustrations to you directly?

*the dangers of threatening people on social media--even indirectly

*the permanence of social media

*positive reinforcement that he knew when to back off

*positive reinforcement that he can express his frustration with situations

*redirection on how to express this better, in a way that you will hear him

 

Your dh needs to think about starting to show some of the respect adults show each other verbally to this young man. You may be parenting him but 17 is almost a man. There needs to be a transition in how he is treated, from teen control to adult boundaries. A big part of this is verbal. Adults don't cut each other off sharply with obedience statements. They allow each other the space of their thoughts and speech. An adult would say to another adult, "this doesn't concern you. Please let us have our private conversation and we can talk about your concerns later." An adult would say to another adult, "I don't have time to discuss this with you right now." Your nephew needs to start learning how to get respect verbally, and to give respect verbally. In my opinion, your husband treated him like a child and your nephew then acted like a sulky teen. If your husband showed respect, he would be modeling to this teen how to respect...and would get it in return.

 

I wish you the best. I really respect what you and your family are doing for this young man.

[Harriet Vane]

 

 

Your dh needs to think about starting to show some of the respect adults show each other verbally to this young man. You may be parenting him but 17 is almost a man. There needs to be a transition in how he is treated, from teen control to adult boundaries. A big part of this is verbal. Adults don't cut each other off sharply with obedience statements. They allow each other the space of their thoughts and speech. An adult would say to another adult, "this doesn't concern you. Please let us have our private conversation and we can talk about your concerns later." An adult would say to another adult, "I don't have time to discuss this with you right now." Your nephew needs to start learning how to get respect verbally, and to give respect verbally. In my opinion, your husband treated him like a child and your nephew then acted like a sulky teen. If your husband showed respect, he would be modeling to this teen how to respect...and would get it in return.

 

I wish you the best. I really respect what you and your family are doing for this young man.

:iagree: I especially agree with the bolded, but the whole paragraph is spot on.

 

He is not a child, like it or not. He probably feels doubly adult if he has had a rough life and more independence than a more gently raised child would. Acting in an authoritarian way will undermine what you are trying to accomplish with him.

[MusicMama]

After your DH talked with him, you mentioned that your nephew appeared unconcerned, without remorse, and that he smirked. Those sound like defense mechanisms. I truly doubt he is as unaffected as he seems. I had many, many head butting sessions with parents as the oldest child, and that was my "shield" of choice. By appearing uncaring, you show the other more dominating person that they can control some of your actions, but they can't control how you feel. I'll bet the message was received with more thought than he showed. It sounds like you and your dh are doing him a great service, and I hope that you all find a peaceful resolution.

[LucyStoner]

I agree with those that said that this was not a threat. I personally think the disrespect here was going both ways, perhaps unintentionally, on both sides.

 

As for people who think that any less than angelic social media use will bar you from employment. Please. Tweets have a fairly short shelf life and any savvy user can lock down their feed/switch to approving followers before anyone can read their feed or they can choose to use an alias on twitter. I agree that social media can give people a bad reputation or be an overshare but this sort of tweet is not what will hurt a kid online or follow you forever. It lacks the traits of anything which would become infamous. Most likely no one will even see it outside of a small circle.

 

All that said, if this young man does not have a counselor, it sounds like he could use one. As someone who left home (on my own) before 18 and whose brothers did the same, family dysfunction and lack of protection from your parents can really leave a young person with a lot pain and guilt/shame. What you are doing for him is great but it can't erase the pain that he is likely feeling from not being able to be with his mom and from not having been taken care of by his mom.