Question about mandatory parent volunteering for Scouts and other groups

[GeorgiaGirl160]

Hi again,

 

I am the treasurer of a Cub Scout pack at my son's elementary school. Over the year since I began volunteering, I have become the webmaster, the camp card coordinator, and the advancement chair due to attrition of other volunteers.

 

During the first year of our new little pack leadership, we've gone from 10 volunteers to 5. We have 65 Scouts, plus siblings, from about 50 families. So, 90% of the families don't do squat. I'm frustrated and burned out.

 

Before I volunteer for next year's leadership (assuming they straighten out the tax mess I unknowingly inherited as treasurer), I am trying to get the Cubmaster and Committee Chair to consider requiring Scout parents to contribute X amount of volunteer hours to the pack as a condition of signing up their Scout.

 

Clearly 90% of the parents think it's fine to drop and run and let the other 5 of us do it all. I'm tired. Asking them individually to help with various events this year has been met with virtually no response.

 

I've seen that other groups on the web (American Heritage Girls, some Scout troops, etc) do require parents to contribute time in return for the privilege of enrolling their Scout. I'd like to hear from leaders in packs/troops/groups that have this policy how it has worked for them. Has it been helpful? Are there problems I might not anticipate? Does it work?

 

I'm still trying to fix my situation instead of quitting and running away. Overall, I think Scouts has been good for my son, and I'd like to continue with the pack at our school.

 

Thanks,

 

GA Cub Mom

[Soror]

I'm interested to hear more about this as well. It looks like dh will be Asst. Cubmaster next year and our group is in sore need of some reorganization in this area.

[J-rap]

I think that situation is fairly typical across the board. My children have never been in Scouts, but my daughters are in an active choir that has many events that rely on parents helping. When students enroll and commit to this choir, parents have to sign a statement saying that they will either volunteer x amount of hours or enclose a check for $100. Not sure what the $100 does, maybe encourages people to volunteer, or else pay for outside help to assist at events??

[KungFuPanda]

I'd say you HAVE to be emotionally prepared to move your son to another pack if you can't get help. If your policies are adopted, you have to be ready to lose some nice boys because their families don't help out. It's either that, or continue to let people take advantage of you.

 

I led GSs for seven years. If I was single and childless I could have pulled it off with just a co-leader and occasional help. However, I had small children who I homeschooled and a husband who deserved more attention than my volunteer job. Luckily, I was in a co-op scout group. Every parent hosted a meeting or helped with an event and there was STILL tons of Leader work to do.

 

You can be a true believer in the cause and do all of the work until your son ages out of cubs, OR you can make your group a co-op and REQUIRE participation, or you can switch groups. The hardest part is making the decision.

[Amy in TX]

Our cub scout pack is in exactly this position. We've decided to either not allow anyone to sign up their son without choosing a volunteer position, or charge a higher fee to sign up without taking on a volunteer position. A pack cannot function without all parents helping.

[KarenNC]

This is the reality of any volunteer organization---10% of the people do 90% of the work. I am in favor of requiring some level of responsibility on the part of all parents, but it will come with additional issues for those main volunteers (who will remain the main volunteers, don't expect a dramatic difference). Once you institute this rule, someone will have to be responsible for tracking that everyone fulfills their volunteer commitment (and does so adequately), remind those who do volunteer of their jobs and that they need to do them, continually get on a certain percentage who will consistently not fulfill even their minimum commitment to try to get them to do so, and kick out the children of the ones who don't even after much reminding, accommodation, etc. You will also have to deal with the complaints, frustration, and resentment on the part of the majority of the parents over the few who consistently don't comply, especially if the governing body delays kicking out the kid for the parents' failure to follow through. If you aren't willing to kick out the best, most contributing kid in the group or the kid who needs the group most over this, don't institute the policy.

[sassenach]

Not in scouts, but every sports team we've done has a mandatory volunteer requirement. I'm on my phone, so I'll just bullet point it what I've seen that works.

 

•Parents sign up for roles when they sign up their children. Have a list, as specific as you can, of things to sign up for.

 

•Volunteer buy outs. A flat fee to buy out of volunteering. Some parents just won't ever volunteer. The buy out acknowledges that and offers an alternative. Out baseball buy out is $40, swim (which has major volunteer needs) is $400!

 

•Personally recruit. Personally asking a person to fill a role is so much more effective than sending out a mass email. People have a much harder time saying no to your face than just ignoring an email.

 

•Make "Volunteer Coordinator" a role. Choose an organized extrovert, because that will be the person who does a lot of the personal recruiting.

 

•Be honest. Let parents know that the troop can't exsist without volunteers and that you all are burning out.

 

Because the troop is connected to school, my guess is that parents are treating it in the same fashion. Drop off and drive away. PS has no choice, but BS does. You can turn kids away. It sounds harsh, but most parents will rise to the occasion rather than allow their kids to be left out. Good luck!

[jen3kids]

 

One way is to give them an ultimatum - no volunteers, no Scout program. And, if your Pack folds due to no volunteers, you can always start a new one with the stipulation that all parents be involved, and have them sign up immediately for an activity.

 

Gather all the parents at an information meeting and have a list of activities and their dates. Tell them that without their help, no activities. You say, "Who can organize the Pinewood Derby in March? It involves xyz..... No one, ok. Let's cross that off the list. What about roller skating in April?..." And keep going down the list. When you get to the end, thank those who stepped up, and let the others know that if they change their minds to let you know which activity they are willing to take over.

 

It is a very tough thing to do. You will have to be ruthless.

[sassenach]

One more thing, on a personal note. You need to stop picking up the slack. It seems like you have become the troop's yes person. Start saying no. People will not step up when there's a yes person who is willing to pick up all the slack. Choose 1 thing and do it well. Allow everything else to either not get done, or fall on another person.

 

 

[starwarsmomma]

Our cub scout pack has on average year 80-95 boys. And it's ALWAYS the same parent volunteers every year...

 

I got really fed up a few years ago (we also had about 10+ "jobs" because nobody else was stepping up!)

 

Part of the problem is ME-- I have this tendency that if something isn't getting done, I do it... And I had to stop doing that.

 

We sat down as a committee and figured out the bare minimum the current committee would handle. Everything else we were going to find volunteers for, or it would not get done.

 

At the beginning of the year, we held a parents meeting and laid it all out. These items will NOT happen unless we have a person or group to run it.

 

Adult leaders and co-leaders for needed dens (if no volunteers, we offered/threatened to send them to another pack)

Pinewood derby

Popcorn

Tshirt orders

website (hubby has done this for the last 8 years and NEEDS to pass it on!)

raingutter regatta

committee positions

etc...

 

If we didn't get volunteers, it got cancelled. The boys will suffer.

 

It's really sad, but as we pointed out to the families-- there were 60+ families in our pack, yet less than 10 volunteers that run the pack. It should NOT be that way!

 

I have become very talented at saying NO. I just was getting to that point that I hated it, and it was because I was doing it alone.

 

I have done 3 Blue and Gold banquets BY MYSELF. Those are a BIG deal-- and ALOT of work, and I have never even gotten a simple thank you from anybody... so frustrating.

(and I will probably get conned into doing youngest sons- which I will do just to make sure his crossover is special like his brothers got...)

[sassenach]

Our cub scout pack has on average year 80-95 boys. And it's ALWAYS the same parent volunteers every year...

 

I got really fed up a few years ago (we also had about 10+ "jobs" because nobody else was stepping up!)

 

Part of the problem is ME-- I have this tendency that if something isn't getting done, I do it... And I had to stop doing that.

 

We sat down as a committee and figured out the bare minimum the current committee would handle. Everything else we were going to find volunteers for, or it would not get done.

 

At the beginning of the year, we held a parents meeting and laid it all out. These items will NOT happen unless we have a person or group to run it.

 

Adult leaders and co-leaders for needed dens (if no volunteers, we offered/threatened to send them to another pack)

Pinewood derby

Popcorn

Tshirt orders

website (hubby has done this for the last 8 years and NEEDS to pass it on!)

raingutter regatta

committee positions

etc...

 

If we didn't get volunteers, it got cancelled. The boys will suffer.

 

It's really sad, but as we pointed out to the families-- there were 60+ families in our pack, yet less than 10 volunteers that run the pack. It should NOT be that way!

 

I have become very talented at saying NO. I just was getting to that point that I hated it, and it was because I was doing it alone.

 

I have done 3 Blue and Gold banquets BY MYSELF. Those are a BIG deal-- and ALOT of work, and I have never even gotten a simple thank you from anybody... so frustrating.

(and I will probably get conned into doing youngest sons- which I will do just to make sure his crossover is special like his brothers got...)

 

 

So how did it go? Did people step up?

[NotSoObvious]

This is why I won't take on another GS troop.

 

If people want someone else to do all the work, they need to PAY for it. You don't sign your kid up for a virtually free, volunteer led program and then not help. Not cool people. Not cool.

[vonfirmath]

Our church in Washington did the same thing. To sign your kid up for regular nursery (guests of course did not have to do this), you had to either work in the children's ministry (children's SS teachers were exempt) or sign up for one of their volunteer positions. There were LOTS of positions available. Work in a nursery classroom for one hour, one semester (i think they'd divided the year into two. Might be into 3 parts). Work as a "guard" -- not in a classroom but a floater out in the hall making sure no one should be there who wasn't supposed to be. Take all the linens home every week, wash them and bring back. same for the reusable cups. Volunteer for nursery for the entire AWANA year (this is what I did because I wanted to keep going to sunday school and church). Maybe a few other positions.

[starwarsmomma]

So how did it go? Did people step up?

 

 

It's not perfect. But yes, people are stepping up. The most common excuse I hear is -- I volunteer at school/ sports/ church/ have a job/ don't have time, etc.. Guess what? We're ALL busy. Do you want to hear MY schedule? LOL

 

We have people running the dens (big priority)

We have people who are stepping up for some of the activities-- pinewood, etc...

We got a new person to do awards, etc...

 

A person to do twilight and popcorn are always a struggle, but someone usually steps up at the very last minute if we threaten to cancel. Which we do. every.year. LOL

 

We still dont have a volunteer for the website, but hubby will just hand all the info/passwords/etc over to the cubmaster after youngest crosses over if nobody else has stepped up at that point... The website is helpful but not critical to running a pack.

 

MOST of the jobs are short and involve a few days or up to a week once a year. No biggle at all.

[FaithManor]

I hear ya! 4-H leader here and yeah, if you allow it to happen, many families will use you for babysitting.

 

This is what we did. We issued a parent mandatory attendance and volunteerism component. We have a list of things that have to be done throughout the year, they have to volunteer to do it, find a family member who will, or pay another parent if they can't. End.of.discussion. In addition, we have to have four parents at every meeting for the duration. So, the parents can duke it out amongst themselves about who is staying and who gets to go. There is a parent sign in sheet and if we notice that one family routinely NEVER volunteers and RARELY or NEVER stays for the meeting, then they are notified that next year, they will be taken off our membership rolls. They are of course welcome to find another 4-H club to join, but not ours. Dh and I meet 8 times per year, sometimes multiple times per month to complete very high end science projects with these kids. We got tired of being taken advantage of by people who would think it's okay to leave us with 20 kids, chemicals and test tubes, and take off! So, every parent that inquires about having their child join our club is given a copy of the policy so they know ahead of time. We of course have no problem with anyone who has an emergency. Due to the policy, we always have enough adults on hand now to get things accomplished if someone needs to leave. That is not an issue. But, because every parent knows they have to carve out the time to help, then we know we have enough assistance that if someone has to go pick up their husband from work because the car won't start, or dad gets a call that his wife is stuck in the driveway (yes, we live in rural Michigan), having them leave a child behind to finish a project is not an issue because we aren't going to have 20 kids and no hands.

 

We also publish a "these are the jobs that must be done if our club is going to participate in the county fair, or science fair X" or whatever list each year and since we've been tough with the other policy, we always get enough help to keep us from losing our minds. We also make it known that we don't have a problem with an aunt, uncle, grandparent, sibling 18 and older, etc. being the "family representative" who does some volunteer work. Just.so.long.as.it.gets.done.

 

Get tough about it. Every family is busy. Every family would like to not have another responsibility. But, extracurriculars are just that. EXTRA. No one has a right to expect others to work like dogs on their kids' behalfs to produce these extras and NOT contribute. If the family schedule is so tight that NO able bodied adult can help within the greater family unit, then they need to cut some things out in my opinion.

 

:D A few years of working in 4-H leadership has definitely toughened me up a bit!

 

Faith

[LisaKinVA]

double post. Sorry.

Edited April 17, 2013 by LisaK in VA

[NorthwestMom]

I could have posted a "like" to nearly every post on this thread. My GS troop of 6 years is folding this year due to burn out from lack of help. It's gotten to the point where we often don't get any reply at all to emails asking for help from the parents, however, I DID receive an email from a parent who blew off site sales completely asking if we would take the girls to Great Wolf Lodge using cookie money. :glare: Ha, NO! I'm not taking other people's kids to a water park for the weekend.

 

I understand that everyone is busy, has younger kids, etc. I am in the same position. When we said we needed help or it was going to fold, the parents passively chose folding. Luckily my DD is ready to move on so she is supportive of the change. I feel regret for some of the girls - I REALLY like all my Scouts and will miss seeing them.

[LisaKinVA]

Like PP stated, you either need to be willing to lose a lot of families, or willing to just not "do" certain stuff. Our AHG troop has required service (outpost duty, special activities), and honestly, I see the same people doing everything. They made this requirement this past year, and about half the families left. Let me tell you, It's still exhausting. I run the Pi/Pa (7-12 grade) unit, handled the spaghetti dinner (was at the church at 9am to get dinner started, homemade rolls going, and we made lots of cake), worked at the yard sale/car wash fundraiser from 6am until 4pm, planned one major camping trip (a trip that I inherited), among many other things...most of the parents of my girls are leading younger girls...everyone is volunteering, but because there are fewer of us, we are all still doing a lot. We canceled one activity due to lack of help -- someone almost canceled the mother-daughter tea for lack of interest, but no sign-ups had even been put out (I think everyone is suffering from burn out right now...but my group will also go right through the summer, so no break for me!) If we can get to at least 60 girls, with parents who volunteer I think we'll have a better balance).

 

My son's BS troop doesn't require volunteers, but we do -- the boys are supposed to run most of the events (adults consult :D). My son's cub scout troop also doesn't require service, and it's done pretty well...however a bunch of leaders will be leaving next spring (which is why my husband didn't volunteer for the treasurer position that's open), so it needs new families to step up. We volunteer for things when we *know* that something needs to be done, but honestly, I never hear about most of the stuff that is getting done. Make sure people ASK, and then eliminate activities to keep yourself sane. Best wishes.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

One way is to give them an ultimatum - no volunteers, no Scout program. And, if your Pack folds due to no volunteers, you can always start a new one with the stipulation that all parents be involved, and have them sign up immediately for an activity.

 

Gather all the parents at an information meeting and have a list of activities and their dates. Tell them that without their help, no activities. You say, "Who can organize the Pinewood Derby in March? It involves xyz..... No one, ok. Let's cross that off the list. What about roller skating in April?..." And keep going down the list. When you get to the end, thank those who stepped up, and let the others know that if they change their minds to let you know which activity they are willing to take over.

 

It is a very tough thing to do. You will have to be ruthless.

 

 

This is what needs to happen. This is what our Cub group does. Yes, this means sometimes things are not organized very well. It is *very* hard for me to do this in our AHG group. There have been times that we let someone lead something and they completely dropped the ball. That is hard for the type of people who tend to be in charge. But, it is a necessary part of the growth process.

[bettyandbob]

When I was a swim team manager, we discussed having a buyout option. However, the truth is we couldn't come up with a fee that would be high enough for perpetual slackers. Sure we could have a buyout and get money, but we still needs bodies to run the meets.

 

One idea I've thought of is serious tracking of volunteer commitments, with the requirement that if a parent does not volunteer or provide a volunteer for his/her duties, the child cannot sign up again. We did not follow through with that idea because it punishes the child.

 

During each meet we would have to find parents who had not signed up and had not done any work previously and put them to work.

[In The Great White North]

Out baseball buy out is $40, swim (which has major volunteer needs) is $400!

 

 

When I was a swim team manager, we discussed having a buyout option. However, the truth is we couldn't come up with a fee that would be high enough for perpetual slackers. Sure we could have a buyout and get money, but we still needs bodies to run the meets.

 

Would you be kind enough to send me your team's website? Our USA Swimming team, of course, has the same problem, however, we have a potential solution for the bodies needed. Our high school team offered, as a fundraiser, to work a session of the latest meet for a donation ($30 per session) . Only 16 families took that option. However, if the USA team had a buyout option that allowed them to hire the high school team, it could work. $400 per family per year would allow them to hire a lot of high school timers. And the high school team would be able to afford to rent pool time.

 

Back to the OP, I'm not sure Scouts allows charging extra to families that don't volunteer.

[Murphy101]

You gotta do what you gotta do and I support you in doing it.

 

But I'd gladly pay more rather than volunteer. I HATE volunteering for more than snacks. And honestly, I think it's nuts that we expect every dadblum thing to have a snack every cotton picking 2 hours or less. but that is a whole other topic.

 

I LOVE those who do volunteer to keep these things running.

 

They do a job I don't want to do and would suck at doing and frankly my kids don't participate in these things unless these volunteers make it happen. I LOVE that my girls are enjoying AHG bc it is 100% NOT in my realm of ability to make happen.

 

I used to do everything and volunteer for lots of things and always step forward to do something.

Burnt out worn out done with that.

 

 

 

[Callie]

This is the reality of any volunteer organization---10% of the people do 90% of the work. I am in favor of requiring some level of responsibility on the part of all parents, but it will come with additional issues for those main volunteers (who will remain the main volunteers, don't expect a dramatic difference). Once you institute this rule, someone will have to be responsible for tracking that everyone fulfills their volunteer commitment (and does so adequately), remind those who do volunteer of their jobs and that they need to do them, continually get on a certain percentage who will consistently not fulfill even their minimum commitment to try to get them to do so, and kick out the children of the ones who don't even after much reminding, accommodation, etc. You will also have to deal with the complaints, frustration, and resentment on the part of the majority of the parents over the few who consistently don't comply, especially if the governing body delays kicking out the kid for the parents' failure to follow through. If you aren't willing to kick out the best, most contributing kid in the group or the kid who needs the group most over this, don't institute the policy.

 

 

This!

[Murphy101]

 

Indeed! That's exactly my experience too.

 

This is the reality of any volunteer organization---10% of the people do 90% of the work. I am in favor of requiring some level of responsibility on the part of all parents, but it will come with additional issues for those main volunteers (who will remain the main volunteers, don't expect a dramatic difference). Once you institute this rule, someone will have to be responsible for tracking that everyone fulfills their volunteer commitment (and does so adequately), remind those who do volunteer of their jobs and that they need to do them, continually get on a certain percentage who will consistently not fulfill even their minimum commitment to try to get them to do so, and kick out the children of the ones who don't even after much reminding, accommodation, etc. You will also have to deal with the complaints, frustration, and resentment on the part of the majority of the parents over the few who consistently don't comply, especially if the governing body delays kicking out the kid for the parents' failure to follow through. If you aren't willing to kick out the best, most contributing kid in the group or the kid who needs the group most over this, don't institute the policy.

 

[Seasider]

So many good suggestions, so much info, maybe someone else said this and I didn't catch it...

 

What about setting a quota? Your troop can only handle a certain number of members in ratio to the number of adult volunteers. Active volunteers have enrollment privileges. When you can't handle any more, you simply can't take them into your troop. If there's space, a volunteer buyout option could be included AFTER the kids of adult leaders are placed.

 

A smaller troop is better than a folded troop.

 

The only exception I could see to this would be if you are personally committed to serving an underprivileged community. In that situation, I'd think a troop could tern [ETA - haha! obviously i meant tUrn - can ya tell we've been birding today?] to the school or council for additional support and creative problem solving.

[ocelotmom]

From a reluctant volunteer perspective...

 

The more you can break things down to manageable specific bites, the more people are likely to volunteer.

 

To someone who has not done it before and doesn't have much experience with project management, "Organize the Pinewood Derby" sound incredibly daunting - personally, I'll stare at you like a deer in the headlights if asked that. But if you ask me to show up for a few hours the day before to help set up, I will. And someone who might be willing to step into a leadership role is more likely to sign up if they can see that they already have a group of people willing to help, especially if those people have committed to specific jobs.

 

I'm also unlikely to sign up for a nebulous committee with unspecified time commitment to help organize the Blue and Gold dinner, but I will sign up to show up 2 hours early and cook spaghetti.

 

Have some sort of point/hour system with a certain number of participation points needed, and then assign points based on expected time contribution (adjusted appropriately if actual contribution ends up being significantly higher). Someone who volunteers to organize the Blue and Gold dinner might fulfil their entire requirement, while the person who cooks the spaghetti might have to do some other similar small job at several events.

 

Have parents list their occupation, talents, certifications, interests, and so forth. Maybe have a checklist of interests. Then match them up with things that need doing. I am not a good person to organize the Pinewood Derby. I am a good person to serve as camp nurse at day camp.

 

Break things down in such a way that there are things that introverts, people with disabilities, people who work 60 hours weeks, people who are seriously struggling financially, and other challenges will feel that they can help with.

 

If you have a buy-out amount, can it be used to hire people (esp. a teen or young adult - someone who will work for low-cost and needs resume-building) to serve in those roles, or would that be against the rules/too much of a pain?

[Harriet Vane]

Definitely require parental involvement. It's only fair.

 

One pitfall to avoid though, is trying to require BOTH parents to be involved. I was really angry when ds' troop instituted a new requirement for 2-parent involvement. In our case, dh goes on almost all the campouts and attends almost all the meetings. Dh is super-involved and super-helpful. We have also willingly driven to almost all the campouts--that's seven kids plus dh driving. We have been involved and generous. As such, the expectation that I should also contribute time was unrealistic. I think that would be the case for most families who have more than one child--there are many things to give time to, and we cannot give disproportionately to one thing without compromising things for the other kid in our family.

[Ellie]

 

 

One way is to give them an ultimatum - no volunteers, no Scout program. And, if your Pack folds due to no volunteers, you can always start a new one with the stipulation that all parents be involved, and have them sign up immediately for an activity.

 

Gather all the parents at an information meeting and have a list of activities and their dates. Tell them that without their help, no activities. You say, "Who can organize the Pinewood Derby in March? It involves xyz..... No one, ok. Let's cross that off the list. What about roller skating in April?..." And keep going down the list. When you get to the end, thank those who stepped up, and let the others know that if they change their minds to let you know which activity they are willing to take over.

 

It is a very tough thing to do. You will have to be ruthless.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: ...especially with the part about being ruthless.

 

FTR, I feel the same way about Sunday school--no one to teach the 2nd graders? They can go sit with their parents--and nursery--only one person in there with those six babies? No more babies until someone volunteers. Possibly this is why God has never let me be the person in charge of either, lol.

[Mrs Mungo]

You gotta do what you gotta do and I support you in doing it.

 

But I'd gladly pay more rather than volunteer. I HATE volunteering for more than snacks. And honestly, I think it's nuts that we expect every dadblum thing to have a snack every cotton picking 2 hours or less. but that is a whole other topic.

 

I LOVE those who do volunteer to keep these things running.

 

They do a job I don't want to do and would suck at doing and frankly my kids don't participate in these things unless these volunteers make it happen. I LOVE that my girls are enjoying AHG bc it is 100% NOT in my realm of ability to make happen.

 

I used to do everything and volunteer for lots of things and always step forward to do something.

Burnt out worn out done with that.

 

 

But people burn out due to all of the people who insist that it isn't in them to volunteer. Everyone can do something-collect fundraiser forms and money, make sure they match, fill our the forms for the troop; help register girls into Troopmaster; run the website; go shopping for a camping trip. Many hands make light work. I have done *all* of the things above and much more over the last few years. If every parent took just one job or one piece of a job, then it would make things much easier.

[Ellie]

One more thing, on a personal note. You need to stop picking up the slack. It seems like you have become the troop's yes person. Start saying no. People will not step up when there's a yes person who is willing to pick up all the slack. Choose 1 thing and do it well. Allow everything else to either not get done, or fall on another person.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[Laurie4b]

Mass emails are nearly 100% ineffective in hustling up volunteers, mainly because everyone assumes everyone else will do it.

Give some thought to training people to tasks, because as a pp said, some things seem daunting. So think about the big tasks and have a system where you have one person in charge and an assistant, who knows they are being trained to either lead or co-lead the next year.

I don't see anything wrong with requiring a certain amount of volunteerism from parents. It's an extra-curricular activity; if they don't have time, they don't have time. Their kiddo misses out on something. It just helps them make the choice between available options. My kids have always missed out on something because we couldn't do everything.

When you do require volunteerism, think of what it takes to get the job done and make sure there are jobs for people who aren't natural leader/organizers and aren't campers. There are still things they can do such as board of review, bringing snacks, etc. For something big like the Pinewood Derby, have the leader divide it into specific smaller tasks and delegate.

Planning out what the troop is going to do at the beginning of the year contingent on volunteering is a good idea. I think it would work best if the troop can give the basic plan to parents ahead of time, with very specific, truthful aspects of the jobs specified. That gives them time to figure out what they can and can't do. Then the meeting will be realistic and positive and not punitive-feeling. "Okay, we've got the resources do do abcd, but not xyz."

[vonfirmath]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: ...especially with the part about being ruthless.

 

FTR, I feel the same way about Sunday school--no one to teach the 2nd graders? They can go sit with their parents--and nursery--only one person in there with those six babies? No more babies until someone volunteers. Possibly this is why God has never let me be the person in charge of either, lol.

 

 

This is how our church ran. They had ratios. When there were X number of adults you could only have 3x number of kids (or whatever). When you reached that number of kids you couldn't accept ANY more. -- but you could suggest their parent come volunteer that day. then that child plus two more could come to class!

[Tess in the Burbs]

I will be honest...I would rather volunteer with less help around me than to volunteer with people who don't want to be there.

 

You could basically appeal to them to find a spot on the volunteer 'list'. Offer up choices to fit them best. I know when we joined Cub Scouts the leaders were so tight even when we stuck around to help it wasn't noticed. Heck, Dh was ass't den leader this year and did more than one award with the boys but award night they didn't bother to mention him. You don't go in wanting recognition but to completely ignore he helped at all really pissed us off.

 

We just joined Boy Scouts and I see the same faces at committee meetings. Honestly, the ones who want to be there are there and have fun. If you put an adult who really doesn't want to be there it isn't helpful at all.

 

I would keep asking and make it clear that without leaders the group will die off.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I was reading about how to get volunteers a few months ago (maybe in the book "Switch"). A study was done on getting college students to donate food to a food drive. Half the study participants got a generic "bring food to room x in building y on XYZ date." The other group was asked to bring a can of beans and given a map of the campus with the building clearly labeled. The second group had about 10 times as many people donate food (I think it was about 4% vs 40%). The author of the book says specific requests like "bring a can of beans" get better results than generic ones like "bring food." Including the map also took away the mental barrier of "I don't know where that building is."

 

When I signed Tigger up for soccer through the town, they were recruiting coaches. Only 2 teams out of 12 had coaches lined up before the game schedules were handed out. Here is why I didn't sign up ahead of time:

 

1. I didn't know when the season started. I had heard rumors of March or April. Did that mean March 1? Did that mean April 25?

2. I didn't know how long the season would be. The town hadn't decided whether to have 6 or 8 games yet. The season could be over by May or drag into July.

3. They wanted people to commit to coaching without knowing what day their team's weekly practice would be.

 

The whole process was way too vague. In the survey after basketball, they asked what could be improved and I mentioned all the above. I told them they need to be specific with the season start and end dates and let potential coaches check off which days they are available for coaching.

 

In the end, I signed up for coaching after the schedules were released. Tigger had been assigned to a team that practiced the one day per week we are all busy. I knew they needed coaches so I emailed and said I would coach if they switched him to a team that met on a different night.

[violamama]

I like the above post about being specific.

 

I'm just researching cub scouts, just starting swim team, etc. A lot of requests are put out for volunteers but there is no specific schedule and no exact description of hours. This fills me with anxiety for two reasons: 1. I am very busy and plan my time carefully and worry that I'm committing to more than I realize at first AND 2. It feels like everybody else knows what is going on and the new moms are given a trial by fire to figure out which jobs will actually work for our schedules.

 

I'm not saying you're not clear in your group, just contributing a reason why I often hang back at the initial call for volunteers until I can get a dialogue going about exactly what is expected of each role. I even prefer to do that by email so I have it in writing because I've had things balloon up before and squish out my schedule margins, which is not acceptable at this season in my life. With an email I can go back and gently point out what I'm signed up for, and explain why I can't do 5 more hours every Saturday or what have you...

[ocelotmom]

I totally agree. I will do anything for anyone pretty much, but you need to tell me what you need or what you want done. I'm not a jump in and take charge sort of person. Need me to pick something up? Fine. Need me to watch kids at XYZ time. Ok. But I'm not a planner. I'm not good at public speaking. I'm not good at motivating people to do anything.

Yep, same with me.

 

And really, until this post I had no clue that data entry and so forth were needed jobs. The only things I've ever been asked to help with when DS was in scouts were things like chaperoning events. Not really my thing. But I'd be all over data entry and be really happy to feel like I was really contributing in a way that I enjoyed and was good at. I don't want to be a freeloader, but when it feels like the only ways of helping are things that I don't particularly enjoy, it's tough to find motivation.

[Murphy101]

But people burn out due to all of the people who insist that it isn't in them to volunteer. Everyone can do something-collect fundraiser forms and money, make sure they match, fill our the forms for the troop; help register girls into Troopmaster; run the website; go shopping for a camping trip. Many hands make light work. I have done *all* of the things above and much more over the last few years. If every parent took just one job or one piece of a job, then it would make things much easier.

 

 

They chose to burn out. Harsh reality is they are doing what they want to do. No one is making them. I fully support the OP and anyone else is saying, "No. I am at my limit and will not do this, that and the other. If X wants it done, then they will need to step up and make it happen. Sorry."

 

Because no, not everyone can do something. And the biggest problem with that is every group thinks they are the something that should be getting something done for them. If a mom has a couple kids and church and school and one or two outside activities, that can easily be 5+ places that think she should volunteer to do something and it adds up to a lot of somethings.

 

Aside from that, I have mixed feelings about specificity. If someone told me to bring a can of bean, I'd think ok I don't have any beans in the cabinet so I guess I don't need to bring anything. But I do agree that very clear directives are usually helpful. I've had the same reaction as a pp about vague signups. No date. No location. No time. But hey! Sign up?! Um. No. I can't sign up promising that when they get things organized I can rearrange my entire life to make it.

[Soror]

I've been in leadership positions in a few different groups, even with specific requests for help people don't want to step up. One recent request for help in one of these was to pass out papers, which would literally take maybe 5 minutes. Nobody stepped up until the very last moment. One group where I in a leadership position has moved to 2x a month meetings instead of weekly due to the lack of help. That is all I'm willing to give and until time when others step up it won't be anymore than that. My dh and I were both leaders this year, he in Cub Scouts and I in AHG. Neither he or I are well-suited for these tasks but stepped up to make sure our children could participate in a quality program. I was leading a class a few weeks back, while nursing my baby, all the while the parents where out there chatting up a storm. My dh has repeatedly asked people in person for help directly and they say yes and then disappear It is always asked for people to stay after an event to help with clean-up yet 90% of the people scoot out as soon as possible. My dh was vacuuming the floor while holding a crying baby after our last banquet. I'm really hoping that we can establish some rules in our group to alleviate some of this pressure. I seriously doubt I will be returning to lead AHG, especially as I will be needed for a group I have no children in while the moms of those children in that level could very well take on that job themselves.

[Mrs Mungo]

Because no, not everyone can do something. And the biggest problem with that is every group thinks they are the something that should be getting something done for them. If a mom has a couple kids and church and school and one or two outside activities, that can easily be 5+ places that think she should volunteer to do something and it adds up to a lot of somethings.

 

I don't sign my kids up for so many volunteer-run groups that I would be expected to volunteer for 5+ groups. If I don't have time to help volunteer in *some* way or other, then we don't have time for it. I pay a teacher for those things I don't have time for.

 

Our scouting group (cubs, boys and AHG) has considered a membership limit next year due to the huge number of kids and relatively small number of volunteers.

[DawnM]

We have mandatory volunteering. You have to do SOMETHING and when you join our pack you have to sign a form that says you will be involved.

 

Now, some parents do very little. Many of us do the bulk of the work.

 

Thankfully we have done ok for the most part and have many families very involved.

[ocelotmom]

They chose to burn out. Harsh reality is they are doing what they want to do. No one is making them.

 

I'm not sure that not knowing how to set limits is quite the same as doing what they want to do and choosing to burn out. Yes, when it comes down to it, it is ultimately their choice. But some people are brought up to not look out for their own needs, and people who are organizing tend to find that they have someone reliable and intentionally or unintentionally take advantage of it.

 

Burnout can also sneak up on you. You feel like you can handle things just fine until they suddenly fall apart.

[Murphy101]

I don't sign my kids up for so many volunteer-run groups that I would be expected to volunteer for 5+ groups. If I don't have time to help volunteer in *some* way or other, then we don't have time for it. I pay a teacher for those things I don't have time for.

Our scouting group (cubs, boys and AHG) has considered a membership limit next year due to the huge number of kids and relatively small number of volunteers.

 

 

Okay. That's a choice you've made and that's fine by me. When I sign my kid's up for something, I do not view it as signing myself up for it too. I have zero interest in camping. Ever. But hey my girl wants to go camping? Sure I'll pay for her to do that if I can afford it.

 

Sure, if something comes up and I can fit it in, I'll do it. Usually it's snacks. Or a ride for someone. But no, I can't commit to any more than I already have on my plate. Anything more I do is purely because the clouds just happened to clear during a convienent moment to do it. :)

 

And personally, I think scouts is really expensive. And it tends to take over the entire family's life. I can easily see why a family might forget it's a volunteer program.

[Murphy101]

I am well aware of all your points having been there and done that myself.

But in the end? It's still their choice.

And in that choice is their key to freedom.

If its truely important to them, then suddenly the burden won't be so awful.

If it isn't, then either others will step up to help fill the need or they will know they need to move on.

 

I'm not sure that not knowing how to set limits is quite the same as doing what they want to do and choosing to burn out. Yes, when it comes down to it, it is ultimately their choice. But some people are brought up to not look out for their own needs, and people who are organizing tend to find that they have someone reliable and intentionally or unintentionally take advantage of it.

 

Burnout can also sneak up on you. You feel like you can handle things just fine until they suddenly fall apart.

 

[bettyandbob]

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Would you be kind enough to send me your team's website? Our USA Swimming team, of course, has the same problem, however, we have a potential solution for the bodies needed. Our high school team offered, as a fundraiser, to work a session of the latest meet for a donation ($30 per session) . Only 16 families took that option. However, if the USA team had a buyout option that allowed them to hire the high school team, it could work. $400 per family per year would allow them to hire a lot of high school timers. And the high school team would be able to afford to rent pool time.

 

Back to the OP, I'm not sure Scouts allows charging extra to families that don't volunteer.

 

 

 

The team I managed was summer league for my town. 9 teams, not USA swimming, just summer rec.

[FaithManor]

I do think people tend to sign their kids up for things that are run by volunteers and forget that it takes a LOT of work to pull these off. I love our 4-H club, but when it became apparent that people were willing to run us ragged and expect us to put up with it so they didn't have to contribute, then well, our tune changed.

 

If one really can't help in any meaningful way, then I think the parents should only sign their children up for "for profit" extracurriculars such as music lessons, or basketball camp, or whatever. This way there is no one being taken advantage of...the parent is paying for a service.

 

4-H is $10.00 per year, per child, with a maximum of $30.00 per family. That's it! The magnitude of what is accomplished is done by mom and dad volunteers who are just as busy as everyone else, and they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. So, families that are not in a position to assist or at least make sure they don't make the job that much more difficult, need to not participate. That may sound cold, but honestly, dh and I work our hind ends off for these kids, and we do not need to be babysitting everyone else's...this includes the mom whose child we kicked out of the club because she thought nothing of dropping her eligible child to a meeting WITH her 3 year old, and taking off before anyone could confront her. She wanted her "me time". I didn't volunteer to be a 4-H leader to give some other parent "me time". Hire a babysitter or send the child to grandma's house.

 

But, I think this concept of pitching in and NOT making a burden of yourself is lost on many people in our culture. We have a very me, myself, and I, oriented culture who feels entitled to have their cake and eat it too at everyone else's expense.

 

Once we made our expectations VERY clear, leading the club became a joy, not a burden. Sometimes the parents choose to rotate in and out, but we always have enough adults to make sure we get a LOT accomplished in our 2.5 hours and we don't get burned out.

 

That said, it is a lot even with help. Our youngest is 13 and we've been doing this for four years. I have to wonder if we'll be doing this when he graduates from high school. It would be a loss for the younger members of the club - we have several, new, nine year olds that are pretty enthusiastic and I know their parents hope we'll be doing this for a very long time to come - but, I have to admit that maybe we will quit when "A" ages out.

 

Martha, we don't serve snacks. We don't believe that every single meeting or event calls for food and I certainly think it's crazy to have to consider cleaning up a food mess after also putting away science supplies for 20 kids. NUTS! I'm with you...the obsession with eating all the time, everywhere, is crazy. Kids do not have to have snacks everywhere they go.

 

Faith

[mom2scouts]

I agree with the person who said to be very specific about your needs. My dh and I have been leading a Cub Scout pack for 4 years and we are getting burnt out. There are always the same few parents who are willing to help. One thing that we are doing to help our next leader is taking notes about each activity. For example, for the Pinewood Derby, we have a copy of the rules we've used, we note that we buy extra cars that can be purchased for siblings, we write what kind of awards we usually get and where we get them, we take note of how many pizzas we ordered and how many people they fed, and on and on. Next year's new Cubmaster will be able to ask people to "make X number of copies of the rules", or "order the awards through this company by this date" or possibly just hand the information over to a volunteer who will know exactly what needs to be done.

 

My youngest son hung around Scout activities since he was a baby and looked forward to becoming a Scout. The main reason dh and I volunteered was because it was important to our son and we wanted to make sure he had a great experience. The other boys benefit from our experience and our goal to give our own son a great start in Scouting. I realize that not every parent is going to be as committed as we are, but i don't think there is anything wrong with asking every parent to take at least one or two small jobs when they sign up.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Kids do not have to have snacks everywhere they go.

 

 

I've had two moms ask me if I needed them to bring snacks for after the teams' soccer games. The games are Saturday mornings, not long after most people eat breakfast. I told them that I wasn't planning on doing team snacks.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I've learned from this thread that I definitely don't want to get involved in Scouts. I had already decided that, after reading other threads here over the last year about what a time suck it is. This just reinforces it.

 

It sounds like one of the problems is with groups that have a cost, but don't charge enough to pay all the people involved. In my town, sports leagues are $40, which means they rely heavily on volunteers. I don't know if they pay the refs and they don't pay the coaches, score keepers, etc. I bet many parents feel like they don't need to help out, since they are paying something. (If wonder if more of them would feel guilty about not helping if it were free?) On the other hand, the cost would go way up if everyone involved were paid.

[Tita Gidge]

I greatly understand but tend to disfavor mandatory volunteering. I've seen it work and not work, so I know it can go either way. My preferred way to handle it is along the lines of a suggestion upthread: lay it all out on the table, and let the parents decide if they're willing to ante up. No one to run the Pinewood Derby? Fine, it's a no-go this year. Etc.

 

I've found that it's hard to get a single parent volunteer whereas I have an easier time soliciting for COMMITTEES. I don't know if it feels less overwhelming, or what, but where I've struggled before to find a parent volunteer for one job I am able to easily find three parents willing to form a committee for the same one role. Go figure. That may be an option, OP.

 

When parents register their children, let them know what committees exist (Blue & Gold, Advancement, Pinewood & Regatta, Outings, Service/Fundraising, etc.) and have them select a committee. Then it's out of your hands. At the first pack meeting you give printouts to everyone that include which committees are made up of whom, along with contact information. Then it's up to them to figure out the delegating of work, etc. The cubmaster can be the liason to keep everyone on track calendar-wise, but the bulk of work will be in the committee's hands.

 

My husband and I both travel for work, and our schedules change monthly. It's always been difficult for us to volunteer in a hands-on position but we're always willing to help behind-the-scenes (registration, fundraising, etc.) and it's easier with a committee because we can do the bulk of the work and have our committee members handle the hands-on stuff at meetings when we're both out of town for work. You have to "sell" volunteer work to people, so counter their objections before they have a chance to offer them: "These three committees are great for those of you who prefer to work behind-the-scenes ..." or "These two committees are perfect for someone who is good with people ...." or "This committee is excellent for the busy family because it's flexible .." and so forth.

 

This is the first I've heard of a ratio, scouts to volunteers; I like that idea. Filed under long-term ;) thanks for the suggestion!

 

I also like the mentioned idea of breaking down the volunteer jobs into simple bites so they seem less overwhelming. When we first crossed over into boy scouts they asked for volunteers for a bunch of stuff I hadn't ever heard of before. It was intimidating, and though I went ahead and asked for specifics on what each job entailed... I was the only one who did. When I saw, I realized it was totally doable, even for a newb like me. Now that I'm in charge of parent involvement and new scout registration, I make sure it's all spelled out so people don't need to feel overwhelmed or in the dark about what they're committing to. I've had great luck being specific and having committees.

 

Good luck!

[JumpyTheFrog]

You have to "sell" volunteer work to people, so counter their objections before they have a chance to offer them: "These three committees are great for those of you who prefer to work behind-the-scenes ..." or "These two committees are perfect for someone who is good with people ...." or "This committee is excellent for the busy family because it's flexible .." and so forth.

 

 

Great idea! I would add to it:

 

"Here are jobs that can be done from home on your own schedule..." - Good for busy families or those with unpredictable schedules.

 

"Here are jobs you can bring younger siblings to..." - Good for those who can't get a babysitter.

 

"Here are jobs that just take one day..." - Good for those who'd rather spend 6 hours one day helping than 1 hour six days helping.

 

"Here are jobs that require no planning..."

 

"Here are jobs you can work on while talking to other parents..." - Good for those who like to socialize.

 

"Here are jobs you can do by yourself..." - Good for introverts.