Great essay in WSJ - "To all the Colleges that Rejected me"

[Nan in Mass]

I vote for satire. With an incredibly sad underpinning.

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.

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And sometimes, that brass ring seems very shiny and apparent to everyone but the student for whom it is intended. Not because the kid is selfish, whiny, immature, or any other adjective, but simply because what is going on in *their head* is too overwhelming. The world has been an incredibly frightening place for the last ten years or so - and that is all these kids have memories of. The US has been in two wars concurrently, the housing market has collapsed, people's savings, jobs and sometimes homes disappeared basically overnight - and now kids are being told that there has been a fundamental shift in the economy - that all of those jobs simply won't return. Forget the brass ring - I'm amazed any of these kids can even see the Carousel!

 

We wonder why kids are drowning/losing themselves in social media and escapist television programs. Think about it: if you were 16, would you rather be reading / watching about how the Cypriot banks are taking 60% of their account holder's money, watching the collapse of a major world currency - and then making the logical leap as to what that means to the greater world economy as the first major American city (Stockton, CA) gets the go ahead to declare bankruptcy - or would you prefer to Snapfish your friends a cute pair of shoes?

 

There is a reason "App creation" is so popular.

 

 

A

 

I always say that half the challenge when parenting teens is making them WANT to grow up enough to actually do it. (I think the other half is just plain keeping them alive.) In my opinion, aking them want to do it enough to do it before they are 14 years old, the time at which everything they do starts "counting" for college admissions, is practically impossible even when their own lives are near-idyllic. The near-idyllic-ness becomes a problem in itself. As my son put it (echoing the way I felt at his age), "Why on earth would I want to leave here? Why on earth would I want to be grown-up?" If they have the intelligence and sensitiveness to be aware of and distressed by the plight of many of the non-family adults around them, to say nothing of the people in the rest of the world, they are going to spend a good bit of their teens upset and seeking escape. If you are lucky, they will discover that they can find a bit of comfort in helping someone else occasionally or trying to improve the world, but it takes a good bit of maturity to walk a whole beach of dieing starfish and focus on saving the one you can grab without being overwhelmed by the hopeless plight of the rest and without feeling hopelessly selfish for walking away after saving a few and going back to your own pleasant life.

 

Now we have solved the puzzle of how Suzy wound up in the WSJ. She is in a good position to write this echo of how her classmates are feeling, whether she herself is in that position or not. The more eloquant teenagers usually do resort to satire when faced with the realities of the adult world. It is why adults find them uncomfortable. My hope for Suzy and for teenagers struggling to grow up is that they manage somehow to come to see what is good about the adult world, not just the inevitable inconsistencies and necessary evils that even good adults are forced to resort to sometimes.

 

Most adults lie to children. We try to make a safe, consistent place to keep our babies while they are small and fragile. Then we hope that when they are teenagers and are transitioning to the adult world, they will forgive us.

 

Ug... this is too deep. I just wanted to say that I agree with Asta. I never have liked satire. It is way too sad.

 

I'm off to paint trees.

 

Nan

[asta]

I always say that half the challenge when parenting teens is making them WANT to grow up enough to actually do it. (I think the other half is just plain keeping them alive.) In my opinion, aking them want to do it enough to do it before they are 14 years old, the time at which everything they do starts "counting" for college admissions, is practically impossible even when their own lives are near-idyllic. The near-idyllic-ness becomes a problem in itself. As my son put it (echoing the way I felt at his age), "Why on earth would I want to leave here? Why on earth would I want to be grown-up?" If they have the intelligence and sensitiveness to be aware of and distressed by the plight of many of the non-family adults around them, to say nothing of the people in the rest of the world, they are going to spend a good bit of their teens upset and seeking escape. If you are lucky, they will discover that they can find a bit of comfort in helping someone else occasionally or trying to improve the world, but it takes a good bit of maturity to walk a whole beach of dieing starfish and focus on saving the one you can grab without being overwhelmed by the hopeless plight of the rest and without feeling hopelessly selfish for walking away after saving a few and going back to your own pleasant life.

 

Now we have solved the puzzle of how Suzy wound up in the WSJ. She is in a good position to write this echo of how her classmates are feeling, whether she herself is in that position or not. The more eloquant teenagers usually do resort to satire when faced with the realities of the adult world. It is why adults find them uncomfortable. My hope for Suzy and for teenagers struggling to grow up is that they manage somehow to come to see what is good about the adult world, not just the inevitable inconsistencies and necessary evils that even good adults are forced to resort to sometimes.

 

Most adults lie to children. We try to make a safe, consistent place to keep our babies while they are small and fragile. Then we hope that when they are teenagers and are transitioning to the adult world, they will forgive us.

 

Ug... this is too deep. I just wanted to say that I agree with Asta. I never have liked satire. It is way too sad.

 

I'm off to paint trees.

 

Nan

 

What Nan said.

 

As always.

 

 

A

[Nan in Mass]

... It also teaches a valuable lesson in the process: how badly do you (or anyone) want to chase after an institution that clearly could care less about your existence? While paying for the "privilege"!

 

 

A

 

 

Yes. We are relieved that our sons chose places where the application process was straight forward and realistic, places that when telephoned said things like, "Don't take the SAT2s for our sake" and "Just let me pull up your application and I will tell you right now if we will accept you", places that sent acceptance envelopes that say Congratulations on the OUTSIDE, places that were willing and able to tell me exactly what they needed from me as the guidance counselor.

 

That is a good point about the admissions people knowing whether the fit is a good one or not. All the more reason not to misrepresent yourself on the application. "Just be yourself"...

 

Nan

[Barbara H]

Some may enjoy this response: http://gawker.com/5993140/ Attention Students: 'Just Being Yourself' Isn't a Skill That Should Earn You a Place in College

[creekland]

For skills alone, Suzy is a MUCH more talented writer than Caity. ;)

 

The rest (content, pros & cons, etc) we've already discussed.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Some may enjoy this response: http://gawker.com/5993140/ Attention Students: 'Just Being Yourself' Isn't a Skill That Should Earn You a Place in College

 

I actually found this meaner than the original essay.

 

I don't think there are many students who are owed a spot at a particular college. But I also think we've created a rather odd system where backstory or hook matter more than actual accomplishments. The system has been decades in the making. And I don't see it fading anytime soon.

 

 

[Heather in WI]

I actually found this meaner than the original essay.

 

 

 

I thought it was much meaner. Seriously, who stalks a high school student to the point where they identify online where she lives and to whom she's related? I think that is really creepy.

 

I'm certainly not going to Google Caity in order to expose her online and put her in her place.

[creekland]

 

I thought it was much meaner. Seriously, who stalks a high school student to the point where they identify online where she lives and to whom she's related? I think that is really creepy.

 

I'm certainly not going to Google Caity in order to expose her online and put her in her place.

 

I hadn't thought about doing it, but since you mentioned it, I did just put her name into google - I only had to start and it popped right up, so it seems to be common to do. It appears being mean is her game. IMO she doesn't do it very well though which could be partially why she's still a freelancer in general.

 

Suzy did well for a high schooler. Tidy it up a bit and get rid of a few of the slurs and she'll have a great future writing. Caity - I'd avoid future things from her if I see she's the author before reading.

 

All my two cents. Others are free to disagree.

[Jen in NY]

So, satire or no satire aside (there is a *high* probability that I am just not sophisticated enough to get it....), I still don't know where she's going with the "we've been lied to...." opener. Admissions rates are posted just about everywhere, so the 85-95 percenters getting rejected from the ivies are..... just about everyone, eh? Just about everyone being themselves, not being themselves.... in Harvard's case ... just about everyone.

 

(In my case, Creek and Cath.... I didn't even get the nod from Eastman! :) )

 

Anyway.... maybe tangentially related.....

 

We have a bit of a case study going on right here in my family. My dd1 and dniece are the same age, both getting ready to go away to college next year. My dd has everything that was 'satirized' in the article... a research internship, (at which she works incredibly hard - and BTW, has nothing to do with a family member), a second job (via which she has saved religiously for tuition $), AP Classes (at which she busts her you-know-what), outside interests and friends (that she squeezes in time for whenever she can), impressive test scores (worked so hard for these), and still manages to keep up practicing piano, lately by scheduling it from 10-11 every night. Yes, I am proud, and happy, that so far she has been successful at the things she has tried and eeked into her top choice school. If #1 school had not worked out though, there were others on her list that she would have been genuinely happy to attend. Everyone knows it's a crap shoot to get into the most competitive schools, right? I wouldn’t ever bet my life on getting in, no matter what my stats. We talked a lot about that before decisions came out... and I hope that her self worth wouldn't have been too much affected by a rejection... since she has so many interests that she really cares about and derives satisfaction from.

 

OTOH, there’s my niece. Let me preface this by saying she is an intelligent girl! There’s absolutely no lack of academic ability in this case. She is the poster child for one week of karate, one lap on the swim team. She has tons of potential but has spent all of her free time in the last 2 years at her boyfriend’s house … and applied to most of her schools based on the ones he applied to… NOT caring whether they were known for her major or not. (Oh yeah… he dumped her two weeks ago… wayyyyy too late to reapply. Are you surprised?) She has never held a job, despite her parents offering to drive her. Parents bought a car for her and pay for gas and insurance ... still no job, no attempt to find or make one. Didn't prep at all for standardized tests, and it showed. "Wants" an internship at a local lab, and her method of getting it is saying, "Daaad... you should call there!" "Wants" a Bio BA degree, .... because “the BS degree would mean extra lab classes.†She freely admits that she wants to do what she wants to do... only what she wants to do. When I told her the other day about a local scholarship deadline, she said, "Ugh. I don't write essays. I have too much to do." And her parents are planning on paying for college, even though they are not wealthy people and it will mean taking out lots of loans.

 

OY.

 

But really my point is not to compare the girls, except to give you the backstory. Let's just say that I truly hope they both go on to happy futures. :)

 

Sooooo ..... despite obvious differences, dn was admitted to a couple of the schools that my dd would have been thrilled to go to. They both have ~60% admit rates. So --- I don't get it. *shrug* Sometimes it seems like there are plenty of spots for anyone willing/able to pony up at least some of the money. Maybe not at super competitive schools, but…. these aren’t shabby schools! (Did I mention that dn got a grant to the private one? $21,000 free money/year!)

 

I hope this doesn't sound snarky in any way. I am smiling. :) I am genuinely happy that something worked out for her, and the two schools that she has to decide between are both excellent. (We know a lot about them b/c they were on my dd’s list!) We love them both, and if she takes it seriously when she is at either one she will have lots of amazing opportunities.

 

Sometimes I think I *get* the process, and hope that it is as fair as possible. But sometimes I get really, really cynical and think that some (most?) schools figure out your EFC, and if you are financially attractive to them at all and they think you have any chance at all of succeeding there they offer you a finaidpackage just enough above what you can actually afford so you think, “Well, if we cancel cable, the cell phones, take no vacation for the rest of our lives AND eat mac-and-cheese forever we’ll be OK.†In the end, both girls ended up with almost identical EFC’s and almost identical ultimate offers.

 

So my question is, does this have anything to do with the girls at all, or is it entirely financial? Our families are very similarly situated financially.

 

Also, -- Dd's #1 school - really competitive 100%EFC meeting school. Dd's #2 school - not as competitive, not 100%EFC meeting school. Financial Aid/ Merit Offers: almost identical.

 

I almost wish my dd had not applied ED to her #1 so I could have compared offers from those two schools to which they both applied. Maybe that would have quieted my cynicism – if dd had gotten an offer even a tiny bit better than dn from either one of those schools. But I’ll never know….. once you are accepted ED you have to withdraw your applications from everywhere else.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Disclaimer: It seems like every time I post on this board I offend someone. Truly, truly it is not my intent. I am just trying to think through all of this stuff. :)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So, satire or no satire aside (there is a *high* probability that I am just not sophisticated enough to get it....), I still don't know where she's going with the "we've been lied to...." opener. Admissions rates are posted just about everywhere, so the 85-95 percenters getting rejected from the ivies are..... just about everyone, eh? Just about everyone being themselves, not being themselves.... in Harvard's case ... just about everyone.

 

 

 

I took the "we've been lied to" line to refer to the way that kids are often told that they are special snowflakes. No need to keep score at soccer; everyone gets a trophy. It's not that you aren't as smart or aren't working as hard; it's just that you have a different (maybe even undiscovered) multiple intelligence.

 

Even the president says that every student should go to college. (Does he mention that there will be rejection letters from many of them?)

 

As for the admissions rates being clearly posted, as a USNA Admissions Information Liaison doing candidate interviews, I've talked to students who are 50% or more done with their application who have not caught on to the fact that they would have to wear a uniform every day, would be already sworn into the military, would be attending college classes and that said classes are pretty demanding or that they would have to spend several years in the military after graduation. To me, this is pretty fundamental stuff. I asked a few months ago how many people here had kids who had read the catalog for the schools they applied to or had spent significant time on the school website. Many (most?) said that they hadn't. I was listening in to a conversation at a swim meet where a couple moms were discussing the fact that one's daughter had only applied to schools with owls as mascots because she liked owls, while the other's daughter had applied based on school colors, because she wanted to look good in the school spirit wear. And these were rather well educated moms, who were presumably college grads themselves. I could only shake my head, because I know the effect that NCAA basketball and football have on college application numbers. So I do think there are a lot of kids out there that have put more time into selecting their iTunes playlists than into some of their college plans.

 

An article today caught my eye today. MIT Dean Weighs in on Admissions Theories. In particular this paragraph.

 

Schmill, an MIT graduate who has led the admissions office since 2007, acknowledged that applicants are often bewildered when they are turned down.

 

“The college admissions process is for many students the first time in their lives when they have done all the right things and not gotten the reward they expected,†he said. “We adults know this happens all the time. What we realize is, we just keep at it.â€

 

This is indeed, part of growing up. I think the author of the original essay has learned something important. Maybe something that the peers selected to those more select schools will still have to learn the hard way down the road.

[TravelingChris]

I have gone through this twice. My older and my middle had similar scores, though middle was one point higher on ACT. They both had great GPAs. The younger had more accomplishments in her extracurriculars. Here is what happened= both got into most of their schools, however, younger did not get into some schools she should have, based on GPA, scores, and other things. What was the difference? Where we were living at the time of application and gender of child. My son was living in Europe. My daughter was living in one of the most competitive counties in the US- with lots of kids all applying to top schools. As a high scoring male with great scores in both math and English, he was already a bit unusual. Then he was applying to schools where they don't get many kids applying from overseas who aren't foreigners. On the other hand, dd while having okay math and science scores, was really good in English and Reading, just like many other girls are. Furthermore, she was just one of many from the DC area applying to those schools.

 

Now with the last one, she will have an easier time once again. She will be applying for engineering or science, with higher math and science scores but good reading and English scores (a plus). Then she is a female going into either engineering or physics. Then she will be from a state that doesn't send many to colleges out of state and hardly any to out of the South. So she will have an easier time getting into schools further away, particularly if my dh is retired and in a new career by the time she is applying.

[readwithem]

I have gone through this twice. My older and my middle had similar scores, though middle was one point higher on ACT. They both had great GPAs. The younger had more accomplishments in her extracurriculars. Here is what happened= both got into most of their schools, however, younger did not get into some schools she should have, based on GPA, scores, and other things. What was the difference? Where we were living at the time of application and gender of child. My son was living in Europe. My daughter was living in one of the most competitive counties in the US- with lots of kids all applying to top schools. As a high scoring male with great scores in both math and English, he was already a bit unusual. Then he was applying to schools where they don't get many kids applying from overseas who aren't foreigners. On the other hand, dd while having okay math and science scores, was really good in English and Reading, just like many other girls are. Furthermore, she was just one of many from the DC area applying to those schools.

 

Now with the last one, she will have an easier time once again. She will be applying for engineering or science, with higher math and science scores but good reading and English scores (a plus). Then she is a female going into either engineering or physics. Then she will be from a state that doesn't send many to colleges out of state and hardly any to out of the South. So she will have an easier time getting into schools further away, particularly if my dh is retired and in a new career by the time she is applying.

 

 

 

Maybe you can convince your dh to retire to Wyoming or the Dakotas. ;)

[Barbara H]

 

 

So my question is, does this have anything to do with the girls at all, or is it entirely financial? Our families are very similarly situated financially.

 

Also, -- Dd's #1 school - really competitive 100%EFC meeting school. Dd's #2 school - not as competitive, not 100%EFC meeting school. Financial Aid/ Merit Offers: almost identical.

 

 

 

Lots of interesting observations and thoughts in your post and I wanted to comment on just this part... As a person who sees the range of offers of many students I don't think they are all identical, often they are widely ranging even for the same student. Here's an example from last week... A student applied to nine colleges and was accepted to seven of them. The school that ended up being the least expensive for him will run about $5,000 a year including room and board. The most expensive school gave him no merit aid and will be about $50,000 a year including room and board. And, then there was the whole middle of the list. His list included several different types of school (in state public, out of state public, private). This student does not have high financial need but had high merit potential so it is a wider range than some students see, but it is not at all uncommon for students to have a $20,000 difference between options. That's why it is important to put some research and effort into putting together a balanced college list.

[creekland]

 

So my question is, does this have anything to do with the girls at all, or is it entirely financial? Our families are very similarly situated financially.

 

Also, -- Dd's #1 school - really competitive 100%EFC meeting school. Dd's #2 school - not as competitive, not 100%EFC meeting school. Financial Aid/ Merit Offers: almost identical.

 

 

At many schools acceptances and financial aid are in two different areas. Admissions does acceptances. Financial aid does need-based aid. (Merit aid can come from many places,) Admission works off applications, stats, and interviews. Financial aid only sees FAFSA (or CSS) numbers, merit aid, and (sometimes) stats (pending if the school uses them with regards to aid - most "meets need" schools do not).

 

It is not surprising to me to see (same gender/race) kids with similar incomes get similar offers from the same school. That's why Net Price Calculators can work.

[Jen in NY]

I've talked to students who are 50% or more done with their application who have not caught on to the fact that they would have to wear a uniform every day, would be already sworn into the military, would be attending college classes and that said classes are pretty demanding or that they would have to spend several years in the military after graduation. To me, this is pretty fundamental stuff.

 

owls as mascots because she liked owls, while the other's daughter had applied based on school colors

 

Wow!

 

And the parents are ok with the whole mascot thing .... just, wow.

[Jen in NY]

my first double post. :)

[Serenade]

This is one reason I always write UNC-CH. It seems that people forget there are other schools in the system!

 

Good tip. I'll keep that in mind.

 

Each school has its mission and, while there is some overlap, there are distinctive programs on each campus. One of the issues with UNC-CH or NCSU (non-engineering programs) is the magnitude of the schools. Some kids do fine but unfortunately some fall through the cracks.

 

See, my oldest would not do well at a large school. At least based on his personality right now. Now my younger son, I do hope he can go to NCSU. He's an engineer through-and-through, very focused and determined, and he would not be overwhelmed by a large campus.

 

State university budgets have been hit hard over the last few years. Much of the construction you see is funded by outside sources but there is a shifting of the burden of tuition and fees from the state's general fund to the student. I think that both UNC-CH and NCSU would like to admit more out of state and international students for the sake of the income stream.

 

While I think it's good to admit out-of-state and international students, I do think that the numbers should be limited and the primary focus of schools in the UNC system should be on the students of NC. With the population of NC growing so rapidly, I don't know how our universities will keep up as it is.

[Jen in NY]

Lots of interesting observations and thoughts in your post and I wanted to comment on just this part... As a person who sees the range of offers of many students I don't think they are all identical, often they are widely ranging even for the same student. Here's an example from last week... A student applied to nine colleges and was accepted to seven of them. The school that ended up being the least expensive for him will run about $5,000 a year including room and board. The most expensive school gave him no merit aid and will be about $50,000 a year including room and board. And, then there was the whole middle of the list. His list included several different types of school (in state public, out of state public, private). This student does not have high financial need but had high merit potential so it is a wider range than some students see, but it is not at all uncommon for students to have a $20,000 difference between options. That's why it is important to put some research and effort into putting together a balanced college list.

 

 

Barbara,

 

Your post makes me feel a little bit better.... like things are actually more like I had hoped than our very small sample size lets on. I am very glad to hear it!!

 

I know the fact that dd applied ED has everything to do with her outcome there, and the net price calculator in that case was very accurate. Choice #2 offered EA, (brilliantly, IMO) to catch the kids that don't get their ED schools very early in the process. Something like, "Oh, Harvard says no? C'mon over here! We love you! Start picturing yourself here and planning now.... 3 months ahead of everywhere else!" Very smart 'marketing,' right?

 

Your expertise lets me know that there's actually hope for dd2 and ds to find places that are both great fits and somewhat affordable for them - that there really can be a range of financial options.

 

Thank you!

[Acorn]

Follow up interview

http://todaynews.tod...udent-says?lite

 

An excerpt:

 

Weiss said she penned her essay after getting numerous rejection letters in a single day. Despite a 4.5 GPA, an SAT score of 2120 and a stint as a U.S. Senate page, Weiss was rejected by Princeton, Yale, Vanderbilt and the University of Pennsylvania.

“Like millions of teenagers out there, I was crying to my mom and she said ‘I cannot hear about this any more, just go talk to someone else,’ so I called my sister,†she said. “I was crying, but she was hysterically laughing, and she said, ‘Go write this down.’ So I did, and this is what came out of it.â€

[creekland]

Follow up interview

http://todaynews.tod...udent-says?lite

 

An excerpt:

 

Weiss said she penned her essay after getting numerous rejection letters in a single day. Despite a 4.5 GPA, an SAT score of 2120 and a stint as a U.S. Senate page, Weiss was rejected by Princeton, Yale, Vanderbilt and the University of Pennsylvania.

“Like millions of teenagers out there, I was crying to my mom and she said ‘I cannot hear about this any more, just go talk to someone else,’ so I called my sister,†she said. “I was crying, but she was hysterically laughing, and she said, ‘Go write this down.’ So I did, and this is what came out of it.â€

 

 

Thanks for posting. I liked that follow up as there is definitely a bit of truth in what she had the "nerve" to say. She definitely sounds like a nice young lady who will be going places in her life (and certainly has talent writing). She was just one of many who applied and most are not successful. It's nice for those "others" to know they aren't the only one in the boat - and you can go on and still be successful elsewhere just as she will.

[Muttichen]

Despite an SAT score of 2120? Someone needs to tell her that's not all that high if you're expecting to get into schools like Princeton and Yale.

[Barbara H]

Despite an SAT score of 2120? Someone needs to tell her that's not all that high if you're expecting to get into schools like Princeton and Yale.

 

It is a 25%tile score at Princeton last year - in other words 3 of every 4 applicants who were accepted had a higher score. Given they accept about 8% of applicants and reject many perfect scorers, someone should have advised her 2120 is not great odds.

[Belacqua]

 

It is a 25%tile score at Princeton last year - in other words 3 of every 4 applicants who were accepted had a higher score. Given they accept about 8% of applicants and reject many perfect scorers, someone should have advised her 2120 is not great odds.

 

 

And coupling that with a 4.5 GPA might suggest grade inflation. I'm not saying that isn't an excellent score, but it's hardly an automatic admit to Princeton.

[Candid]

Despite an SAT score of 2120? Someone needs to tell her that's not all that high if you're expecting to get into schools like Princeton and Yale.

 

 

It would be better to know her class rank. Most ivies want the top 10% and don't really care about GPA. I'm guessing she wasn't top 10% either.

[8filltheheart]

Here is another article on admissions. This one for Lehigh. http://articles.philly.com/2013-04-01/news/38165511_1_admissions-placement-courses-high-school-students

 

[In The Great White North]

As for the admissions rates being clearly posted, as a USNA Admissions Information Liaison doing candidate interviews, I've talked to students who are 50% or more done with their application who have not caught on to the fact that they would have to wear a uniform every day, would be already sworn into the military, would be attending college classes and that said classes are pretty demanding or that they would have to spend several years in the military after graduation. To me, this is pretty fundamental stuff.

 

I was hoping that the situation had improved over the years. Apparently not.

 

 

while the other's daughter had applied based on school colors,

 

Youngest tried this on me. "I want to go to a school whose colors are blue and gold . . ." :eek:

[snowbeltmom]

And coupling that with a 4.5 GPA might suggest grade inflation.

An SAT score of 2120 places her within the top three percent of all test takers. I think scoring above the 97% more than supports her 4.5 GPA.

 

I doubt that her "low" SAT score was a factor in her rejections- she simply didn't have a hook. For an unhooked applicant, the admittance rate is much lower than 8%. Once you give the legacies, recruited athletes and URMs a seat, there are not many seats left.

 

I thought the girl's essay was great satire.

[Heather in WI]

Here is another article on admissions. This one for Lehigh. http://articles.phil...school-students

 

See, to me, this article seems to make the case for what the girl in the WSJ essay was arguing. She had a 4.5 and 2120 SAT, which apparently are not competitive, yet people in the article with much, much lower stats were admitted to a competitive program because they had some sort of hook.

 

Student with 1300 SAT V/M, one AP class, and a couple of C's -- admitted

 

Student with SAT of 1220 and class valedictorian - admitted

 

Student with 640 math/ 460 reading - admitted

[snowbeltmom]

See, to me, this article seems to make the case for what the girl in the WSJ essay was arguing. She had a 4.5 and 2120 SAT, which apparently are not competitive, yet people in the article with much, much lower stats were admitted to a competitive program because they had some sort of hook.

 

I agree. This quote from the article '8 posted sums it up:

 

"It's really a human process in the end," Washington said. "It's not just a down-and-dirty number kind of thing. We look at human beings and consider the human situation."

 

Just go onto College Confidential this time of year and look at the "Results" thread for one of the highly selective schools. Those posts illustrate how random the whole process is.

[Belacqua]

That Lehigh article is fascinating (kind of a condensed version of The Gatekeepers). I never knew adcoms kept track of how often a student opened his portal. Interesting...

 

Also a good reminder were the points about visiting. We've been told that the super-selective schools don't care all that much about demonstrated interest (probably figuring everybody is interested), but the others want to see the love.

[8filltheheart]

 

 

I agree. This quote from the article '8 posted sums it up:

 

"It's really a human process in the end," Washington said. "It's not just a down-and-dirty number kind of thing. We look at human beings and consider the human situation."

 

Just go onto College Confidential this time of year and look at the "Results" thread for one of the highly selective schools. Those posts illustrate how random the whole process is.

 

When I originally posted the link, I had included commentary, but I deleted it b/c I am exhausted and non-functioning today and didn't want to have to discuss it.

 

[regentrude]

Student with 640 math/ 460 reading - admitted

 

And this is where it gets ridiculous, in my opinion.

"He does fine in his English courses and his writing is good," she said.

The teen had a 3.95 GPA. He's a legacy; his grandfather attended. And he started his own business. He purchases sweatshirts, cuts them up, and sews differently colored pieces together. He sells 10 to 20 of the sweatshirts per month, cutting and sewing on his own.

"The question is," DeSantis said, "do we let the critical reading decide this or do we let the other aspects counterbalance it?"

 

I would find it more important that a college student can read than that he sews and sells sweatshirts. Unless he is majoring in fashion design.

This is about the legacy. The alumnus grandfather is a potential donor.

[Barbara H]

Does anyone here think it should be strictly a formula? GPA + Test scores= admissions decision.

 

Knowing we are all homeschoolers, I'm guessing most of us don't think that should be the full sum of the information considered because we recognize the limitations of both of those measures. I understand when more is considered it can start to look random but that doesn't mean it is really is random. It means that other stuff matters. Some kids have traits - brilliant writing ability, wonderful character even through adversity, maturity and perspective - that don't come through in that GPA + test scores formula.

 

The point that admissions officers at highly selective schools make again and again is that a very large percentage of their applicants have what it takes to be successful at the school. If they really did it as a random process of just picking out 8% of the applicant pile, probably most would do just fine and would graduate because there is already a lot of self selection in the process of where students choose to apply. It is in a way a lot like creating fantasy baseball teams from a stack of major league baseball players. You would try to choose a combination of players that would play together and give you the representation you need for fielding and batting (why did I choose a baseball analogy when I know nothing aboiut baseball?) The real issue is that there are just very few slots available this very small segment of highly selective colleges).

[regentrude]

Does anyone here think it should be strictly a formula? GPA + Test scores= admissions decision.

 

Knowing we are all homeschoolers, I'm guessing most of us don't think that should be the full sum of the information considered because we recognize the limitations of both of those measures. I understand when more is considered it can start to look random but that doesn't mean it is really is random. It means that other stuff matters. Some kids have traits - brilliant writing ability, wonderful character even through adversity, maturity and perspective - that don't come through in that GPA + test scores formula.

 

 

Some things should not matter, in my opinion.

Race. Gender. State of residence. Parents' income. Whether one of the ancestors attended the school.

None of these have anything to do with the student's ability and should not have any bearing on the admissions process. Yes, I can dream.

[Kareni]

Here is another article on admissions. This one for Lehigh. http://articles.phil...school-students

 

Thanks for linking the article, 8FillTheHeart; it was interesting to get an inside look at the admission process.

 

Regards,

Kareni

Thanks for the article about Lehigh. One quote really ticks me off:

 

"She [the High School guidance counselor] told me he [the applicant] was basically rude to her for four years. She did say she has never before in her career given a student below average on anything."

 

 

I don't care about the rudeness of the applicant, and how that effected his application. I'm more upset about this guidance counselor who, in all her years, has never met a kid below average in anything! Talk about grade inflation! I'm not sure she knows what average means.

See, to me, this article seems to make the case for what the girl in the WSJ essay was arguing. She had a 4.5 and 2120 SAT, which apparently are not competitive, yet people in the article with much, much lower stats were admitted to a competitive program because they had some sort of hook.

 

The story is about Lehigh, which isn't in the same ballpark as the Princetons and Yales which did not admit our satirist.

[Marylou]

She's on video here

 

scroll down

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304083/Suzy-Lee-Weiss-Entitled-high-school-senior-sparks-firestorm-writing-biting-open-letter-Ivy-League-schools-rejected-her.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[AMJ]

 

Yes, I know that a Caucasian girl from a middle school background can be at a disadvantage when it comes to "diversity".

But that does not mean one can not have interests, extracurriculars, passions, volunteer or work experience (and good test scores)- any or all of the above.

 

No, she can't always have those extras and outside involvement. For some it just isn't an available option.

 

I have just deleted the very long and emotional rant I wrote, so please, just believe me -- I know from direct experience just how hard it can be to get (or stay) in college when you lack such "extras". And I had STELLAR test scores.

 

It isn't always a case of a whiny, self-centered teen complaining.

[mamajudy]

Despite an SAT score of 2120? Someone needs to tell her that's not all that high if you're expecting to get into schools like Princeton and Yale.

 

She seems like a well informed, intelligent young lady. I'm sure she is well aware of the credentials of students accepted to Princeton and Yale. But you don't have any chance if you don't try, do you? She did say in an interview that she was accepted to college. And as for the sister having worked for the WSJ, so what? She may have been using her resources. She's learning how to network. She took a discouraging moment and made the best of it. She's been published in the Wall Street Journal! This girl is going places!

[creekland]

Here is another article on admissions. This one for Lehigh. http://articles.phil...school-students

 

Great article. A good number of colleges do things similarly - and it is sad for the kids who are on the bubble and get denied for no reason other than too many from their school/region, too many in their major, too many of their race or gender, no sob story in their life, or other things they really can't change.

 

It happens all the time. High scores definitely help, but they aren't the whole answer - and yes, the 2120 was low for Ivies or similar, but 1/4 of the students had the hook (whichever hook) and made it in. She did not. The satire is very real and happens to many. One is fortunate if they are on the other end with the hooks. If their hook is a sob story, most wouldn't likely want to trade places. But if it's just regional... (or perhaps some others...)

 

Homeschooling may be a hook for many on here. ;)

[QueenCat]

She most likely either is not as good a catch as she thought - or she only applied to Yale, Vanderbilt, Harvard etc., without trying for any back-up schools.

 

 

That's what I was thinking!

[cathmom]

I vote for satire. With an incredibly sad underpinning.

 

Saltine Cracker / White Bread / Caucasian. Assuming that a modern teenager even knows the racist epithet "cracker" is a bit of a reach, no? And if the writer *is* caucasian, why would he/she be using it as an epithet?

 

We wonder why kids are drowning/losing themselves in social media and escapist television programs. Think about it: if you were 16, would you rather be reading / watching about how the Cypriot banks are taking 60% of their account holder's money, watching the collapse of a major world currency - and then making the logical leap as to what that means to the greater world economy as the first major American city (Stockton, CA) gets the go ahead to declare bankruptcy - or would you prefer to Snapfish your friends a cute pair of shoes?

 

There is a reason "App creation" is so popular.

 

 

A

 

 

I agree. I grew up in NJ, in a nice suburb. I remember learning the word "coon" as a racial epithet when I was 16 or 17. I had never heard it before. I certainly did not know the word "cracker."

 

I remember in freshman English writing a paper about teen suicide, where I claimed that one factor was the hopelessness caused by the constant threat of nuclear annihilation in the Cold War. My teaching assistant, an MA student in her mid thirties, ridiculed me. She had NO IDEA what it had been like as a teen with that world situation.

[MorningGlory]

Homeschooling may be a hook for many on here. ;)

 

:iagree:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks for the article about Lehigh. One quote really ticks me off:

 

"She [the High School guidance counselor] told me he [the applicant] was basically rude to her for four years. She did say she has never before in her career given a student below average on anything."

 

 

I don't care about the rudeness of the applicant, and how that effected his application. I'm more upset about this guidance counselor who, in all her years, has never met a kid below average in anything! Talk about grade inflation! I'm not sure she knows what average means.

 

I think that the below average has to be considered in the context of all students vs students who apply to college. And average is pretty average. In this context it is similar to a not recommended.

[at the beach]

Some things should not matter, in my opinion.

Race. Gender. State of residence. Parents' income. Whether one of the ancestors attended the school.

None of these have anything to do with the student's ability and should not have any bearing on the admissions process. Yes, I can dream.

 

Can the admissions process ever really be fair to everyone? What's ever fair? How do you determine who has the most promise when most kids who apply look very much like they have promise?

 

As for family income, if a student's parents are in poverty and have never went beyond high school diplomas or have no diplomas and live in a high-poverty rural area with poor schools and that child has an SAT score that breaks 2000, that potentially seems to says something significant. Does the child with a 2300 who lives in Manhattan and attends a top tier private prep school show more promise/ability?

 

My questions are purely rhetorical, of course.

[plansrme]

Can the admissions process ever really be fair to everyone? What's ever fair? How do you determine who has the most promise when most kids who apply look very much like they have promise?

 

Someone on this board recently noted on the college admissions process that colleges are looking for a well-rounded student body, not necessarily a bunch of well-rounded students. And I think it is helpful to think of the the fairness of college admissions like this. Is the admissions process at Yale or Stanford "fair"? Probably not, taken in isolation. But is it fair across the entire universe of schools where one can get an acceptable and affordable education? Probably yes. The Yales and Stanfords and MITs of the world are inundated with applications from truly wonderful students, and they all have promise. But when they throw those application files down the stairs to see whose hits bottom first, it may never be yours. But the student from the impoverished background and school with the mediocre SAT scores does not need to go to Yale. No one "needs" to go to Yale. He can go to Big State U, excel there and do just fine in life.

 

The essay's author's application did not hit the ground first at Vandy or an Ivy. So what? She, too, can have a fulfilling life with a degree from Big State U, and in 10 years no one will care where her undergraduate degree is from.

 

Terri

[Matryoshka]

She most likely either is not as good a catch as she thought - or she only applied to Yale, Vanderbilt, Harvard etc., without trying for any back-up schools.

 

She applied and was accepted at many back-up schools; she only didn't get into the Ivies. From reading the transcript of the Today interview as well, it does seem like original article was a satirical rant meant to channel the collective frustration of a lot of kids like her, not as a true statement on her personal situation.

 

From her Today interview:

Although Weiss didn’t get into the Ivy League schools she sought, she was accepted into numerous other prestigious schools including Pennsylvania State, Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin.

“All of which I’m ecstatic about. I couldn’t be more happy,†she said.

[SarahW]

 

Someone on this board recently noted on the college admissions process that colleges are looking for a well-rounded student body, not necessarily a bunch of well-rounded students. And I think it is helpful to think of the the fairness of college admissions like this. Is the admissions process at Yale or Stanford "fair"? Probably not, taken in isolation. But is it fair across the entire universe of schools where one can get an acceptable and affordable education? Probably yes. The Yales and Stanfords and MITs of the world are inundated with applications from truly wonderful students, and they all have promise. But when they throw those application files down the stairs to see whose hits bottom first, it may never be yours. But the student from the impoverished background and school with the mediocre SAT scores does not need to go to Yale. No one "needs" to go to Yale. He can go to Big State U, excel there and do just fine in life.

 

The essay's author's application did not hit the ground first at Vandy or an Ivy. So what? She, too, can have a fulfilling life with a degree from Big State U, and in 10 years no one will care where her undergraduate degree is from.

 

Terri

 

 

The other part to remember is that not every wonderful student will thrive at Yale or Stanford or MIT, and the admissions folks have the job of keeping these people from enrolling in the first place.

 

I remember talking to a girl who went to Harvard and majored in an area very similar to mine. She described her classes and teachers, and it seemed that they took a very whole-to-parts approach, or, rather, more of a "here's the whole, figure it out" approach. I'm not that way at all, I am a "show me the parts, and I'll construct the whole" person. Harvard would have been a very bad place for me.

 

Likewise, my comp sci brother looked at going to MIT. He was a few years removed from high school at that point (long story) so he just contacted them and said, "this is me, this is what I want to do, would we work out?" They talked, and they thought he was interesting, he thought they were interesting, but ultimately they both decided that he shouldn't go there. He went to a different school instead (someone at MIT may have even recommended it to him), thrived there, and is now doing exactly what he wants to do.

 

High school students can get stars in their eyes about going to a school with worldwide name recognition, like the school is the equivalent of making it big in Hollywood. This is where someone with maturity needs to step in and say, "yes, but would the school work for you?" If someone doesn't do that before they put in an application (maybe because the parents have stars in their own eyes about their kid going to MIT) then it's up to the admissions office to make that judgment.

[Χά�ων]

This thread is interesting. I kept thinking about how when DS wanted to play hockey and I waiting until he was 7 (per my belief in waiting for a team sport until age 7) and I enrolled him in the learn to play classes. The first parent I met wanted to know who is private coach was, how many hours a week we were getting of private lessons and told me that if I wanted DS to play U8 travel he needed to get in with a coach now to get his shooting up to par. This is the type of parent DS's peers have and if they take U8 hockey this seriously I cannot imagine how they view college. I think I will have DS start a charity. Maybe a sports program that has a focus on FUN not making a travel team before a child is out of diapers. Or raising money for therapy for children raised by parents demanding a professional sports contract by age 12.

 

 

(DS does speed skating now and thankfully the parents are awesome, even the parents of the girl we will be cheering for in the olympics in a few years.)