Slipper Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'm curious. The middle school my daughter attends has a baseball team holding a fund-raiser. My SIL is in charge of the fund-raiser and decided to raffle off a Remington Shotgun. I know very little about guns, so I may be blowing this out of proportion, but it seems to be an odd (and somewhat insensitive) fund-raiser for a public school. The same school recently updated all of the security measures including locking all doors after 9:00 am due to recent school-related tragedies involving guns. They are posting on facebook asking for people to let them know if they want a ticket, but I see nothing about how old a person needs to be to buy a ticket or signing a waiver releasing the school from being sued if something bad happens, etc. My SIL and I do not always get along and if I criticize this, I know she will be thoroughly angry (she has 'sensitive' emotions and angers quickly and takes it out on facebook - lol). I am tempted to speak to the principal (who is fair and reasonable) and at least make sure the school is protected from lawsuit should something go wrong. I am also against it because it's an inappropriate fund-raiser for a public school. (I am probably prudish in my thinking though). We are a rural area and hunting is common. My niece and nephews all hunt so I'm sure it's never occurred to them that this would be an unusual fund-raiser. It's never been done before here. I would love some feedback and your thoughts. (Not a gun control debate - please. Just debating the issue at hand). Editing - For Clarification - I am NOT trying to stop the raffle. I'm curious about the legality (and worried for the school's sake - they don't often think things through). I don't plan to buy a raffle ticket but will probably make a donation to the team. I'm also not against rifle raffles in general, but think it's inappropriate for a school to do it. Editing again - the team is selling tickets to anyone, regardless of age and right now they have not said that the winner must be over 18. They also are not doing any paperwork to prevent liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Don't see the problem. People raffle all sorts of things - like boats or massages and I don't see those as being specifically tied to the school or what they do there. It's something that a certain segment of the local population might be interested in bidding on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'd be kind of annoyed. If a school is going to have a fundraiser, it should be something that's more universally useful, you know? Also, I'd be worried about liability issues for the school. If someone wins it and commits a crime with it, is the school going to be held liable for not completing a background check or whatever? I don't know. It's not necessarily wrong, but there are so many better options for a school raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 probably acceptable to the local culture . .. obviously no background checks will be done :scared: . . . i think talking to the principal is reasonable, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 It seems a bit insensitive given recent events. *shrug* You said yourself, though, that you're in a rural area with a lot of hunters. Culturally, it probably is something that would sell quite a few tickets. If it were me, I'd speak to the principal and offer some alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think it's kind of presumptuous to assume the school hasn't already verified the legalities of doing a gun raffle, but of course you're welcome to confirm that with the principal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenangelcat Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think it's in bad taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoObvious Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think it's totally inappropriate, especially given recent events. I'd be making a stink! Flame away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think it's a poor choice in light of recent events. That would never happen where I live, but I know other places are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Nobody would bat an eye around here. We live among lots of hunters and the like. It probably would be a pretty successful raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susann Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I also live in an area with guns and have no problem with them. But in light of recent events, I find the choice in bad taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Meh. I think I would let it go. I would love such a raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't see the problem, especially if it will raise money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't think it's a big deal, especially in an area with a lot of hunters. We don't hunt, but my sons are sport shooters and one of my teens won a shotgun in a raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If it's legal, I wouldn't complain about it. I don't think it would be legal here. There are very specific laws about how firearms can be bought and sold in this state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (she has 'sensitive' emotions Seems to me like your emotions are pretty "sensitive", since you are making an object somehow "inappropriate" because another object in the same class was involved in something bad seems extremely emotional and irrational to me. Why not just make a list of all objects that are involved in something bad, then distribute it in your community? Knives, baseball bats (deadliest item in the US, so says the FBI), cars, belts.... I'm sure you could come up with more. We can't attach "bad juju" to something, someone, or someplace every time something happens. Eventually everything will be off limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Seems to me like your emotions are pretty "sensitive", since you are making an object somehow "inappropriate" because another object in the same class was involved in something bad seems extremely emotional and irrational to me. Why not just make a list of all objects that are involved in something bad, then distribute it in your community? Knives, baseball bats (deadliest item in the US, so says the FBI), cars, belts.... I'm sure you could come up with more. We can't attach "bad juju" to something, someone, or someplace every time something happens. Eventually everything will be off limits. I was using 'sensitive' trying to be nice. :) If I ask questions about it from her, she will have a shrieking fit on facebook, call all our relatives to complain that I'm trying to close down the baseball team, accuse me of being in league with the devil and will take a while to calm down. My emotions on guns? I own 2 handguns and we plan to purchase shotguns for the girls when they are older. I don't think a rifle raffle is appropriate for a school. Kiwanis? sure. Shooting clubs? be my guest. Schools? No. The issue at hand is whether it's appropriate for a school to hold this type of raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Seems to me like your emotions are pretty "sensitive", since you are making an object somehow "inappropriate" because another object in the same class was involved in something bad seems extremely emotional and irrational to me. Why not just make a list of all objects that are involved in something bad, then distribute it in your community? Knives, baseball bats (deadliest item in the US, so says the FBI), cars, belts.... I'm sure you could come up with more. We can't attach "bad juju" to something, someone, or someplace every time something happens. Eventually everything will be off limits. I have no idea what you're trying to say here. People think of guns negatively because guns have been used to murder young children quite recently. It's not like somebody used a belt and we're all anti-gun by association. If the raffle happened here, I'd probably just roll my eyes and not buy a ticket, but I certainly don't think it's overreacting to think that schools shouldn't be giving away guns to anyone who has five bucks to buy a raffle ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Don't see the problem. People raffle all sorts of things - like boats or massages and I don't see those as being specifically tied to the school or what they do there. It's something that a certain segment of the local population might be interested in bidding on. :iagree: Nobody would bat an eye around here. We live among lots of hunters and the like. It probably would be a pretty successful raffle. :iagree: Here, too. When I was in High School, we could win rifles and knives in Ag class, for selling enough turkeys and fruit baskets for our fundraisers. Most of us carried knives, and had guns in our vehicles half the time. No biggie. We can't attach "bad juju" to something, someone, or someplace every time something happens. Eventually everything will be off limits. :iagree: This is why we don't have any cool playground equipment anymore- no metal slides, no merry-go-rounds, no see-saws, etc. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'd be kind of annoyed. If a school is going to have a fundraiser, it should be something that's more universally useful, you know? Also, I'd be worried about liability issues for the school. If someone wins it and commits a crime with it, is the school going to be held liable for not completing a background check or whatever? I don't know. It's not necessarily wrong, but there are so many better options for a school raffle. Around here, it absolutely would be more universally useful! Lots of people hunt and/or shoot for fun. I don't see it as any worse than raffling off a really nice set of kitchen knives if you live in an area with a lot of foodies (someone could commit a crime with those too), or a fur coat, or a boat, or a cord of firewood, or a gift certificate to a fancy restaurant, or whatever -- whatever appeals to the people who are buying raffle tickets. Until/unless an item is used to commit a crime, it's just an object. If it's legal to raffle it, and people are interested -- more power to the school! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Around here, it absolutely would be more universally useful! Lots of people hunt and/or shoot for fun. I don't see it as any worse than raffling off a really nice set of kitchen knives if you live in an area with a lot of foodies (someone could commit a crime with those too), or a fur coat, or a boat, or a cord of firewood, or a gift certificate to a fancy restaurant, or whatever -- whatever appeals to the people who are buying raffle tickets. Until/unless an item is used to commit a crime, it's just an object. If it's legal to raffle it, and people are interested -- more power to the school! It does depend on the location. Where I live now, something like half the families might have a use for it, but the rest would be completely out of luck. There are items that basically everyone would find useful, though. Gift certificate to a grocery store, a tank of gas, computer... I do think a rifle is certainly an odd choice. And I grew up in a house with tons of rifles and deer meat every year, and I was in the Army. I'm no stranger to the culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 OK where I live there are rules about the objects that are permitted on school grounds even after hours. By law guns and knives are not permitted--so no kitchen knives either. Obviously the police assigned to the building are permitted (one in every middle and high school) and there is some exception for the guns used by the JROTC program. I am not hostile to guns, but really we just had a major tragedy where 20 six year olds died. So, it really seems a poor choice. Honestly in light of national events, it seems a political choice too--like a group of people on the committee want to make a point by having a gun as the major raffle item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Personally I find it to be in bad taste considering the current climate. But depending on the local culture it may be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Since it's a rural area I don't see anything unusual with it. Boys in my HS used to come to school with rifles in gun racks in their trucks. It was just another part of the local culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I have no idea what you're trying to say here. People think of guns negatively because guns have been used to murder young children quite recently. It's not like somebody used a belt and we're all anti-gun by association. If the raffle happened here, I'd probably just roll my eyes and not buy a ticket, but I certainly don't think it's overreacting to think that schools shouldn't be giving away guns to anyone who has five bucks to buy a raffle ticket. Knives, baseball bats, cars, and belts (and who knows what else) have all been used to murder young people, too. Items aren't actions or the people that commit them. There is no use in attaching emotion to them. It's irrational and it helps nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 OK where I live there are rules about the objects that are permitted on school grounds even after hours. By law guns and knives are not permitted--so no kitchen knives either. Do the schools not have kitchens? How do they cut anything up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Not a problem from my POV and we dont own guns or hunt. I hear shotguns daily from hunters and Im surrounded by dairy farms and cattle farms. Guns, hunting, processing your own meat-- its all so common here. I wouldnt blink an eye at that type of raffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Well here they don't serve real food. So they don't need to cut stuff up. :laugh: I was actually thinking the same thing. ;) I love the cafeteria staff, they are very kind to my daughter, but I'm not sure on what they would use a sharp knife. They do have a box-cutter, but only the kitchen manager is allowed to have it out - it's kept under lock and key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Knives, baseball bats, cars, and belts (and who knows what else) have all been used to murder young people, too. Items aren't actions or the people that commit them. There is no use in attaching emotion to them. It's irrational and it helps nothing. I do see your point, but it just isn't that black and white. Of course people are going to attach emotions to something like guns. We're human beings. Everyone knows that the primary and only purpose of a gun is to hurt or kill another living creature. It's impossible not to have some kind of feeling about that, whether good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I shall call it thoughtless, although my opinions of the choice are far less charitable. It would make sense -- (legal sense?) -- that no ticket may be sold to a person of less than whatever be the legal age in your state to purchase and possess firearms. A raffle ticket is a "purchase". I'm sure the item was donated by someone thinking of the area's strong interest in hunting. I can't imagine that someone would be making a sick joke. Surely it was intended well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I don't think it's a big deal, but I would worry about the liability issues. And what about bad publicity for the school if someone gets hurt with the gun? It's probably not a wisely-thought-out move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Do the schools not have kitchens? How do they cut anything up? They do not cook anything on campus. Everything is premade and reheated. If it needs to be cut, it's cut ahead in portions. My dd brings her lunch because she has celiac disease. Before winter holidays I made a gluten free buche de noel for dd's French class. The teacher had to cut it with one of those short plastic knives. They don't have those short plastic knives in the cafeteria for students so the teacher must have brought it in or known there was a stash in the faculty lounge. The district is actually doing a pilot program on cooking the food at school at a couple of high schools next year. They have to renovate the kitchens at the pilot schools. There was an article in the paper a couple days ago about it. Apparently, they want the food to actually be good not just meet Dept of Agriculture school lunch requirements. Reading that, just made me shake my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I don't think it's a big deal, but I would worry about the liability issues. And what about bad publicity for the school if someone gets hurt with the gun? It's probably not a wisely-thought-out move. Yup! OP, we must be local, because I recall dh telling me the local schools were doing the same thing. It was right after the last school shooting. Not so soon they couldn't raffle something else or change it (it was announced a few days later), but it just seemed in VERY poor taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'll probably edit my original post (again lol). I spoke with another parent on the team (who confirmed that yes, it was my SIL's idea and SIL put up the money for the purchase although she'll be paid back out of the money raised). The other parent said they were told to sell tickets and no, they do not have to check the age of the person buying the ticket (nor is it printed on it that the winner must be over 18) and they are not having them sign any release forms for liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 The fire departments around here have hugely succesful gun raffles. Legally, the guns are through a licensed dealer, and the winner is still subject to a background check before the dealer before he or she can collect the gun. All the same rules apply to the winner. The fire depts make a lot of money on these raffles. It is usually $20 a ticket and they are raffling off 15-20 guns. But this is big hunting and sport shooting country here. The person who doesn't own a weapon is the odd one around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 The fire departments around here have hugely succesful gun raffles. Legally, the guns are through a licensed dealer, and the winner is still subject to a background check before the dealer before he or she can collect the gun. All the same rules apply to the winner. That, I would have absolutely no problem with. A school giving a gun to whichever Joe wins without having any idea if he's sane or a criminal... that irks me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 That, I would have absolutely no problem with. A school giving a gun to whichever Joe wins without having any idea if he's sane or a criminal... that irks me. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 That, I would have absolutely no problem with. A school giving a gun to whichever Joe wins without having any idea if he's sane or a criminal... that irks me. Wouldn't the state monitor something like this? I mean, if there are laws in place for a background check or whatever, I can't quite imagine them turning a blind eye to a public raffle that ignores those laws. And at least in our area, if it did ignore the law, I can't imagine someone not reporting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 :scared: :eek: :ack2: no, they do not have to check the age of the person buying the ticket (nor is it printed on it that the winner must be over 18) and they are not having them sign any release forms for liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 A lot of times you don't need a background check to buy a shotgun. I could go out and buy one right now, no questions asked, in my state, but this is something the school should look into. A club at my university did a few gun raffles while I was there. Because of state or local laws (can't remember which anymore), they had to give away a gift certificate to a gun store, rather than a gun itself. That's something you could suggest to the school. The plus side is that the winner could choose whatever type of gun they want. Edited because I meant shotgun instead of rifle. Shotguns can be bought without a background check depending on the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 You can buy rifles here at auctions, we're rural in a pro-hunting area. I'm not against gun ownership, I still think a weapon at a school raffle falls into the poor taste category. At least for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Wouldn't the state monitor something like this? I mean, if there are laws in place for a background check or whatever, I can't quite imagine them turning a blind eye to a public raffle that ignores those laws. And at least in our area, if it did ignore the law, I can't imagine someone not reporting it. You do not for gun shows, etc. in many areas, so no you would not need one for the raffle if you were in one of the many areas that does not require such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Have they given any thought to what they would do once the winner is decided? Presumably laws would apply as far as who is allowed to take title to a gun, and if that involves parental permission, licensing, whatever, then so be it. Is this really any different from a grandpa giving his grandkid a gun for a birthday present? I see nothing wrong with it from a cultural perspective. And it does not sound like the kind of gun that would lend itself to mass killings of humans. In a community where people and guns coexist peacefully, I would not rock the boat. I would just want to make sure the transfer was done legally. Where I went to high school, it was very typical for the art show to have drawings of a pretty rifle/shotgun displayed on the wall at home. Today, in some places, that would get a kid suspended/expelled. It's crazy in my opinion. Guns exist; schools are under no obligation to cover up this fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Given the recent school shootings, I think it's a little bizarre even if it IS in a rural area where everyone hunts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'm curious. The middle school my daughter attends has a baseball team holding a fund-raiser. My SIL is in charge of the fund-raiser and decided to raffle off a Remington Shotgun. I know very little about guns, so I may be blowing this out of proportion, but it seems to be an odd (and somewhat insensitive) fund-raiser for a public school. The same school recently updated all of the security measures including locking all doors after 9:00 am due to recent school-related tragedies involving guns. They are posting on facebook asking for people to let them know if they want a ticket, but I see nothing about how old a person needs to be to buy a ticket or signing a waiver releasing the school from being sued if something bad happens, etc. My SIL and I do not always get along and if I criticize this, I know she will be thoroughly angry (she has 'sensitive' emotions and angers quickly and takes it out on facebook - lol). I am tempted to speak to the principal (who is fair and reasonable) and at least make sure the school is protected from lawsuit should something go wrong. I am also against it because it's an inappropriate fund-raiser for a public school. (I am probably prudish in my thinking though). We are a rural area and hunting is common. My niece and nephews all hunt so I'm sure it's never occurred to them that this would be an unusual fund-raiser. It's never been done before here. I would love some feedback and your thoughts. (Not a gun control debate - please. Just debating the issue at hand). Editing - For Clarification - I am NOT trying to stop the raffle. I'm curious about the legality (and worried for the school's sake - they don't often think things through). I don't plan to buy a raffle ticket but will probably make a donation to the team. I'm also not against rifle raffles in general, but think it's inappropriate for a school to do it. Editing again - the team is selling tickets to anyone, regardless of age and right now they have not said that the winner must be over 18. They also are not doing any paperwork to prevent liability. Are they raffling a rifle or a shotgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.