Bathroom privileges at school

[happypamama]

How ridiculous! I remember our school locking a lot of the bathrooms, and it was annoying. I remember timing bathroom trips according to what teachers would be nice about it. I think in the OP's DD's situation, I'd see what letters to the principal, etc. yielded, and if that wasn't satisfactory, I think I'd start going to the media. Getting her to ask for a pass to the nurse solves her problem but doesn't fix the overall issue, which is the poor treatment of young people. I really think we're not going to fix a lot of the stupid issues in our country these days until we collectively stand up and say, "NO." And I think getting news stations, etc. on board might be the way to go. Go to school board meetings and bring up the issue, frequently. Write to the people running your town/state/etc. And so on.

[SKL]

I'm glad you sent a nastygram. When I was in high school, [TMI alert->] I used to use two super-plus tampons at a time rather than have to explain to a male teacher why I needed a restroom break. And they wonder why kids drop out of school?

 

My sister got a detention for combing her hair in the bathroom before the morning school bell rang. How dare a 13yo girl comb her hair without prior permission? (My mom informed the teacher that she'd forbidden my sister from serving the detention.)

 

ETA: but things really got bad after I left high school. They took the doors off the toilet stalls, to discourage smoking. How gross can you be?

[TranquilMind]

AdventureMoms: We had that same situation in highschool. It was a three-story school with very congested stairways and we had 2 minutes exactly to get from class to class. This included visits to the locker if needed and attending to any restroom needs. During lunch (20 minutes) we could go only if we had already eaten and only if someone else wasn't gone

 

Oh my gosh. That is just horrifying. I just can't wrap my head around it. I went to school back in the dark ages in a one floor facility and nothing was too terribly far away. We had TEN minutes between classes. Just about right.

 

I'm sorry you had to do this. It's just ridiculous.

 

 

(they allowed one boy and one girl out at a time, the lunchroom contained about 150 students). In gym class we were usually "dismissed" from the outdoor fields as the bell rang, so we had 2 minutes to run back in, get "cleaned up", changed, and get to our next class.

 

Wow. We had shower time, and probably ten minutes after that. Short showers though. Unbelievable.

 

 

I'm 31 years old, have been menstruating for 20 years, and sometimes I need 5 or 10 minutes in the bathroom when I have female needs to attend to. It's blood folks, it gets messy sometimes.

 

Oh boy. Just wait until your late 40's. :tongue_smilie: Sometimes it takes 20 minutes on those heavy second or third days. There were a couple of times I didn't really leave the bathroom for a long time. I know...just what you wanted to hear. But yeah, I've had gee, over 40 years experience now and could do it in my sleep, but you can't control the particular messiness of the heavy days (especially when you birthed 10 pound children...enough said).

 

Once when I was a Jr in HS, a young man walked out because he had to use the bathroom and the teacher was being an idiot about it. As he left he said something to the effect of "I refuse to apologize for attending to basic human needs". At the time we all thought he was a bit nutty. In retrospect, I think it was an awesome thing!

 

Yes, awesome.

[TranquilMind]

SKL: I'm glad you sent a nastygram. When I was in high school, [TMI alert->] I used to use two super-plus tampons at a time rather than have to explain to a male teacher why I needed a restroom break.

 

Still hung up here on how you managed that as a teen! Today, I could do it. But then....that would have been tough.

 

 

My sister got a detention for combing her hair in the bathroom before the morning school bell rang. How dare a 13yo girl comb her hair without prior permission? (My mom informed the teacher that she'd forbidden my sister from serving the detention.)

 

 

You can't comb your hair in the bathroom? Crazy.

 

ETA: but things really got bad after I left high school. They took the doors off the toilet stalls, to discourage smoking. How gross can you be

 

 

Yeah, I heard that happened. Yuck.

[TranquilMind]

How ridiculous! I remember our school locking a lot of the bathrooms, and it was annoying. I remember timing bathroom trips according to what teachers would be nice about it. I think in the OP's DD's situation, I'd see what letters to the principal, etc. yielded, and if that wasn't satisfactory, I think I'd start going to the media. Getting her to ask for a pass to the nurse solves her problem but doesn't fix the overall issue, which is the poor treatment of young people. I really think we're not going to fix a lot of the stupid issues in our country these days until we collectively stand up and say, "NO." And I think getting news stations, etc. on board might be the way to go. Go to school board meetings and bring up the issue, frequently. Write to the people running your town/state/etc. And so on.

 

It's all part and parcel of the retraining of Americans to give up their freedoms, and it is happening at every single level. Early indoctrination is best, of course. Really, really sad.

[Photo Ninja]

I agree with those who believe that going to the bathroom is a basic need, not a privilege to be earned or taken away. I understand that teachers don't want to be interrupted during class, but if a student does not have a history of abusing the need to go to the bathroom, then the student should not be denied when the need arises - especially if there is not enough time scheduled into the school day for students to use the bathroom.

 

I don't understand why parents don't speak up against rules that deny students the ability to use the bathroom. What adult would submit to a workplace rule that he may not use the bathroom when he needs to, and has less than two minutes every hour or so to use the bathroom, but only if he can get to his next meeting on the other side of the building or parking lot before the two minutes are up. That is crazy. If an adult would not accept this policy in the workplace, then a child should not be subjected to it at school.

[SKL]

I don't understand why parents don't speak up against rules that deny students the ability to use the bathroom. What adult would submit to a workplace rule that he may not use the bathroom when he needs to, and has less than two minutes every hour or so to use the bathroom, but only if he can get to his next meeting on the other side of the building or parking lot before the two minutes are up. That is crazy. If an adult would not accept this policy in the workplace, then a child should not be subjected to it at school.

 

When I was in school, we had 3 minutes to switch classes including gathering our books, walking sometimes from one corner of the school to the other, etc. We complained because some of the teachers gave us a hard time about asking for a potty pass during class time. The principal was so kind as to respond to our complaints. "I walked all the way from one corner of the school to the other and it only took me 2.5 minutes. I don't want to hear another word about this." I pointed out that he was 6' tall and unlikely to be blocked in the halls by horseplaying, fighting, dawdling, or hugging/smooching students, but he wasn't hearing it. Same principal argued that it couldn't be true that students' lockers were being burgled, since nobody had dared to do that to his sons'.

 

I'm sure the menstruation issue was brought up with a female administrator at some point. The solution was simple: tell your 25-year-old good-looking male teacher that you need to go change your rag, and surely he'll be generous with the hall pass. Give educators some credit. :glare:

[Arcadia]

We didn't have rules like that.

 

It was the 70's. I think they were just glad that we showed up at all. :D

 

I went to middle and high school in the 80's and we did not need to ask permission. We would just politely slip out of our seat and go to the restroom. Our lectures tend to run into overtime and no way could we make it to the next class on time and still visit the restroom.

[tex-mex]

 

Call a meeting and remind them of her blood stats. If they don't respond, all you can do at this point is count down the days, count down the days. Hang in there. You're nearly done. She will graduate soon!

A letter wriitten with a law firm's letterhead would also get attention. Legally, she has the right to an IEP or 504 Plan for this under the law (OTI = Other Health Issue) for accomodation in this area. I sense staff training is in the future?

Edited October 19, 2012 by tex-mex

[Greenmama2]

I'm curious, too, considering that my child has not one but two blood-borne infectious diseases ...

 

Tara

 

:001_huh: wow, was the teacher aware of this? Perhaps he or she may have changed their tune? But I guess your child has a right to privacy regarding this information too.

[Zebra]

I didn't read all the threads.

 

I don't care if kids are in the bathroom wasting time. So what. Going to the bathroom is a basic human right. I'm pretty sure even prisoners are allowed to use the bathroom when they want to. Or at least there is a toilet in their cell, which is better than having an accident of some sort I guess.

[dirty ethel rackham]

This is my problem with blanket policies like this - no tolerance on down to little things like this.

 

Some kids use the bathroom as an excuse to ditch for a few minutes. It's disruptive. It's annoying. It can be an actual problem. But when you try to take that and turn it into a policy - one bathroom pass per week - then you can't apply common sense. You can't say, hey, here's a student who doesn't usually have this issue or is a good student, or who has a class across campus or whatever.

 

Of course, some teachers never want to apply common sense. There's that too. :glare:

 

My friend's sister kept getting detention for skipping class "hanging out in the bathroom". She kept insisting that she didn't feel well. They told her that she was lying. Her mother didn't stand up for her because she was upset that her daughter had taken up smoking and assumed the worst of her. Well, after class, another student found her passed out on the floor. The school assumed it was drugs and told the paramedics so. Her appendix had burst. She nearly died.

[Annabel Lee]

My dd is 18 and a senior in high school. She gets good grades and is not a problem student.

 

Her teacher would not let her use the bathroom today. Even after she told the teacher that she also needed to attend to feminine hygiene, she was still denied permission. Apparently the new school rule (never in effect before) is that each student gets one bathroom pass per class per week. Dd had already used hers. (And she says the teachers are not consistent in enforcing this.)

 

She was told, however, that she could trade a visit to the bathroom for a detention!!! :angry:

 

I already sent a nasty-gram to the teacher, and I will be meeting with the principal as well. How dare they treat needing to use the toilet like a discipline problem!!

 

Dd said she learned nothing that class because all her energy was focused on trying not to wet her pants.

 

(And the reason that she didn't go between classes is that they only get 2 1/2 minutes, and she had to go from one side of the school to another, and dd figured it would be better for her to go to class and get the teacher's permission than to be tardy to class, which earns her a demerit.)

 

:willy_nilly: :cursing: :banghead:

 

That just stinks! Unfortunately it's the norm in school rules. Your dd might get a kick out of what my 16 yo dd did when faced with this. She told her teacher she would go right in her (the teacher's) trash can because she really couldn't hold it anymore. The teacher then let her go. It's maddening, isn't it?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I remember at the beginning of every year my mom would tell us if we had to use the bathroom and the teacher said no we could walk out and go anyway, not to worry about the consequences.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

No problem with bathroom breaks while homeschooling...once ds called me from the bathroom, he was working on school while using the restroom and needed help, he actually expected me to hold class right outside the bathroom door. I told him to just wait till he comes out but he complained, he only brought the one subject in with him so what was he suppose to do now with his time while in there.

[Parrothead]

It's all part and parcel of the retraining of Americans to give up their freedoms, and it is happening at every single level. Early indoctrination is best, of course. Really, really sad.

This I do agree with.

 

I was in high school in the early 80s. It was so bad in the bathrooms that if the door to the bathroom was unlocked, one would be lucky if there was a door on the stall and TP available to use.

 

I learned rather quickly not to use the facilities at all during school.

[In The Great White North]

Back in the day, they simply locked most of the bathroom doors - leaving 6 stalls for about 1000 girls.

 

Why doesn't OSHA apply?

[Parrothead]

Maybe I'm over-emotional tonight, but reading this has me STUNNED and sooooo sad..... schools really believe they have the right to control the most basic of bodily needs?? How will teens ever be able to step up and be responsible adults when treated worse than animals are?? Soo stunned......

And school admins all over the country wonder why they and the teachers get no respect from the students. :glare:;)

[AdventureMoms]

We had the same 2 minutes between classes, 20 minutes for lunch, and a huge building. I basically had to carry all of my books all day long just to make it to class on time.

 

Luckily I never had a teacher who told me I couldn't use the bathroom.

 

I generally could get teachers to let me go too, because I was a top student with no behavior issues. However, the kids who struggled with school or had behavior issues needed to use the bathroom sometimes too! While I support taking away privileges for kids who misbehave, peeing is not a privilege!

 

Oh and also one of the lunch periods at that school was from 10:20am-10:40am. School went until 3:30 with sports immediately following. ABSOLUTELY NO FOOD was allowed in classrooms or lockers. So students who were in sports and had that lunch block had to go from a rushed meal at 10:30 (and by the time you got through the line to buy your lunch you had 5-10 minutes to eat it) all the way until 5 or later with no food. For some of the boys who were growing 6" or more a year and participating in multiple sports (and thus probably needed 3000+ calories a day) this was a really big problem!

[SKL]

I forgot to mention my 6yo. She takes forever to do #2. Always has. It's a royal inconvenience, but it's one of those things you just have to deal with.

 

One day, she came home with her lunch barely touched. I of course asked why. Her sister supplied: "she took too long in the restroom." So I guess if you are a slow pooper, you get to starve. I think she is now afraid to poop at school (which is fine, as long as she does it at home! Preferably in the evenings!)

 

A few weeks ago when the teacher was telling me about some discipline problems, she mentioned that both of my kids go to the bathroom too often. Now, this is a fair assessment. My 6yo is a camel and definitely does not need more than 1 bathroom break during each half day (unless she's sick). Both of my kids tend to think bathrooms are cool places to hang out (especially if they can go together). The teacher said "I hate to tell kids not to go, but . . . " so I talked to my kids and told them to stop that. You go to the bathroom when your bladder is full, not because you would like a break from the classroom. I know it can feel like a sanctuary when you're stressed out, and I've felt that way myself lots of times. But you're missing stuff and taking a lower grade because of it. Supposedly they have stopped making unnecessary potty runs.

 

When I was a kid, though, I didn't like using the school bathrooms. In elementary school, some girls were too curious and lacked manners. In high school, it was just dirty and gross. (Why are some kids such pigs?) I generally went all day without a restroom break, or I'd go once at lunchtime when I could clean the area up before using it.

 

I realize that disrespect of school property is an issue, as is drug use. And I also think it's a good practice to encourage kids to take care of their needs outside of class time. Maybe they should have one longer break every 2-3 hours and have monitors in the restroom at those times. But a person shouldn't have to kiss someone's butt for the "privilege" of taking a leak.

[Murphy101]

What amazes me is that the students don't just go anyways. It's like some weird form of learned helplessness? I never understood my fellow classmates. I never felt that...idk what to call it...reverence?? For school authority or peer conformity.

 

I had no problem whatsoever telling my teachers I thought they were being stupid or refusing to do whatever petty silly thing they dictated. I usually wasn't actually rude per se. I just said no and did my own thing.

 

I'm always astonished at how rare it is for it to occur to kids that noncompliance is an option. Happy when it's mine and me teaching them! Still astonished though. ;p

[oceanseve]

And btw, not all schools are so ridiculous. A local high school here is what is called "open". Kids are free to come and go on the campus during the day. Meaning, if they have a study hall, they can opt to just take a walk instead. They can leave for lunch. I love that. I think sometimes fewer restrictions are more effective than more.

 

I am not an advocate of open campus. Here is why - around here there is only ONE school with open campus. I lived in that town for 8 years, my husband grew up there, went to that school. Every other year at least one kid (one year my husband went there it was three in one car) from that high school died during school hours. Most of the time it was in a traffic accident, twice involving a train while I lived there. Could this stuff have happened after school hours – yes. However the train schedule doesn't change and it went through every day during lunch when nearly all the kids left campus.... there were four intersections with the train in that town. The decision to continue open campus was a poor one IMO.

On the other hand, where I went to school the last two years they put a HUGE chain link fence around the entire campus and you felt like you were in prison. It sucked, but I still managed to leave campus regularly and at my discretion :) After Columbine we had threats called in every week, some weeks daily, so we were hardly in class in the morning the year after that happened. I was a great student, straight A, AP classes, but I was still on that list of possible suspects simply because I didn't agree with treating us like prisoners and did what I felt was my right to do. I was threatened with suspension a couple of times, I was interrogated by teachers. Being a good student doesn't always absolve you from suspicion.

OP - I hope the school listens to you! Good luck! Things started to go way south while I was in school. I would HATE to be in ps these days.

[Joker]

What amazes me is that the students don't just go anyways. It's like some weird form of learned helplessness? I never understood my fellow classmates. I never felt that...idk what to call it...reverence?? For school authority or peer conformity.

 

I had no problem whatsoever telling my teachers I thought they were being stupid or refusing to do whatever petty silly thing they dictated. I usually wasn't actually rude per se. I just said no and did my own thing.

 

I'm always astonished at how rare it is for it to occur to kids that noncompliance is an option. Happy when it's mine and me teaching them! Still astonished though. ;p

 

Part of the problem may be the way schools handle even the smallest infractions today. We live in a great area and have very few problems, but there is still a police officer at every school including elementary.

 

Dds middle school has a weird policy that's rarely enforced. Instead teachers give bathroom tokens and however many are left at the end of the quarter are used for extra grade points. I don't like it, but I haven't told dd to just ignore the teachers because I don't know what would happen then. Schools today seem to overreact and I honestly don't want my dd to push those buttons to see what happens. If she ends up having a problem with getting to the bathroom, her dad and I would fight it from here.

[MBM]

And btw, not all schools are so ridiculous. A local high school here is what is called "open". Kids are free to come and go on the campus during the day. Meaning, if they have a study hall, they can opt to just take a walk instead. They can leave for lunch. I love that. I think sometimes fewer restrictions are more effective than more.

 

All of the high schools I attended in Montana were open. We were free to leave during lunch and go off campus as long as we came back. AFAIK, there were no problems.

 

At my son's high school, seniors are free to go to the nearby beach on Lake Michigan during free periods, and all students beginning sophomore year may wander the entire campus during free periods. My son's last period is free, so he usually just comes home then.

 

Don't teachers need longer breaks in between classes to use the bathroom, too? Two to three minutes wouldn't cut it for me.

 

 

ETA: The problem with many schools is that they do not respect kids nor do they know how to treat them so as to gain their respect.

Edited October 19, 2012 by MBM

[AlmiraGulch]

Every year I have been in school at least one student died. And I've never gone to a school with an open campus. My point being, things happen. I don't believe in wrapping everyone in bubble wrap and not allowing them to leave the house though. KWIM?

 

I do realize there could be problems with it. But I still think it's a good idea.

 

:iagree: I went to a public high school in the St. Louis public school district. We had an open campus. We also had the highest test scores and graduation rate in the entire state of Missouri (it's the top school in the state to this day). There were very high expectations, and we met them. We were also treated as intelligent, capable human beings, and felt respected by our teachers. It was a great place for school. If more were like that, I would be a bigger fan of public schools (or any type of institutional schooling, actually) today.

[oceanseve]

Every year I have been in school at least one student died. And I've never gone to a school with an open campus. My point being, things happen. I don't believe in wrapping everyone in bubble wrap and not allowing them to leave the house though. KWIM?

 

I do realize there could be problems with it. But I still think it's a good idea.

 

We had kids die every year too, usually during spring break. Doesn't mean cancel spring break, things happen in life. However there is a sense of responsibility when it comes to children in school during school hours. In the case of this town the smart thing to do would have been to close campus or move lunches around the train schedule. They did neither. The mother of the last boy that died in the train wreck tried desperately to get them to change their policies, but they wouldn't. It's just like others are saying about common sense. There was obviously a danger to their open campus lunches, but apply some common sense, of course not!

[Night Elf]

I did have a job right after high school (1986) that did require employees to ask the supervisor for bathroom privileges. I am not sure if it was my department only though, because that supervisor lorded over us in every way possible. When I quit that job, I told her several things that I thought were horrid about that job. She acted surprised that I felt that way. I was working with ladies much older than me and they never said anything. It was crazy.

[Alphabetika]

I am in the process of reading this book:

The Case Against Adolescence: Rediscovering the Adult in Every Teen by Robert Epstein PhD

 

 

The author is making exactly the same point.

 

 

 

:iagree: My dd18 loves that book. This is the same dd who used to brag when she was six that she could go a whole day in first grade without using the bathroom so she wouldn't have to spend her "classroom money" to go during class.

 

That was her last year in school. For many reasons, but the undignifying treatment was part of the package.

[jujsky]

My mom was a secretary at my high school. I was a good student and didn't get in trouble. I had this horribly mean geometry teacher who refused to let me go down to see my mom in the office so I could get Aspirin for a splitting headache I had. I sat there with my head down on the desk the whole rest of the class (we had block scheduling by that time, so class was 90 minutes long). She told me to lift my head off the desk, and said, "Can't. I have a headache." This same teacher refused to let a friend of mine go down to the office to call home. He waited to ask her until after she was done lecturing and the students were quietly doing their work. Again, this was a good student, never caused trouble (though he DID have an explosive temper, and we all saw it that day!). He explained to her that his mom had broken her arm right before he left for school that day (she did -- he called us for a ride to school and was beside himself) and he wanted to see how she was doing and find out how serious her injury was. She absolutely, unreasonably refused. He exploded!

 

Our school had no set policy about breaks and leaving the class, other than you needed a hall pass. This teacher was just a jerk.

[Haiku]

I spent over 20 minutes on the phone with the teacher this morning. The first thing she did was apologize for not understanding the severity of the issue. I appreciated the apology, but later in the conversation I reminded her that I don't believe anyone should be denied the right to use the bathroom when necessary and that it wasn't the severity that was at issue; it was the school's new policy on bathroom use.

 

The teacher explained to me why this (as well as many other new rules) have gone into effect and admitted to me that many students have complained about them.

 

She also said she has taught my dd for three years and hopes that my dd knows that she is a reasonable person. I told the teacher that this incident was, for my dd, sort of the proverbial straw and that my dd feels that the school this year is a completely different place, one where teachers are ever-vigilant for possible rule infractions and seem to be particularly inflexible and devoid of common sense. I told her that dd told me last night that she now hates being at school.

 

The teacher told me that if dd speaks to her privately about a need to go to the bathroom, she will accommodate it. Apparently part of the problem was that after dd was told no, she said very loudly, "I have to change my tampon!" and the teacher felt that this was my dd's attempt to embarrass the her and so she didn't respond in an understanding manner.

 

Dd did tell me that she had said this and that she did have an attitude with the teacher.

 

I think that the teacher feels constrained by the school's new rules and, as I mentioned, felt that my dd was trying to embarrass her. I'm still angry about the situation but am not so much mad at the teacher anymore.

 

The teacher did promise me that she would speak with other teachers about this rule and their handling of it, and she said that it is something that is under review anyway because so many students have complained about it. She also told me that she used to allow students to just take a bathroom pass and go but that it ended up that this policy was being abused.

 

I know that this is part of a larger issue with the school being lax for several years and suddenly realizing that they had lost control over having a stable environment, hence this year's flurry of new rules.

 

Tara

[AdventureMoms]

Same here. I was a top student, never got in trouble, etc. But yeah once you had a reputation, good luck.

 

Our lunch periods were equally ridiculous. Did we go to the same school? LOL

 

I'm starting to wonder! Certainlly they were cut from the same cloth!! My DW went to an open campus school and always gets all :001_huh: when I complain about stuff like food - if she didn't like the food she just went off campus and got something else. I have a hard time even imagining!

[SKL]

This thread reminds me of when I was in 3rd grade and my teacher (with whom I did not get along) taught us the "proper" terms "urinate" and "bowel movement." The next time I asked to use the washroom, the teacher demanded (in front of the class) to know exactly what I wanted to do in there - i.e., "urinate" or "have a bowel movement"? Taken aback, I said, "I want to go to the john!" She tried to be funny: "Do you want to go to the "Jane"? At this point I mouthed off a little. Since when is it anyone's business what my private parts are going to be busy doing in the restroom???? Even at 8 that felt like too much.

 

So I can understand your daughter's frustration. WHY should she have to explain what she's going to do in the toilet? It's not as if providing an explanation is going to make any difference. If she were planning to smoke a joint in there, she could whisper "I need to attend to feminine hygiene" and still go smoke a joint. :glare:

 

The teacher put her in an uncomfortable situation where she would be embarrassed no matter what she did. Naturally she felt irritated.

[TranquilMind]

Oh and also one of the lunch periods at that school was from 10:20am-10:40am. School went until 3:30 with sports immediately following. ABSOLUTELY NO FOOD was allowed in classrooms or lockers. So students who were in sports and had that lunch block had to go from a rushed meal at 10:30 (and by the time you got through the line to buy your lunch you had 5-10 minutes to eat it) all the way until 5 or later with no food. For some of the boys who were growing 6" or more a year and participating in multiple sports (and thus probably needed 3000+ calories a day) this was a really big problem!

 

Don't even get me started on this one. My daughter had 10 a.m. lunch, after arriving at school at 9 am! I had to get special permission for her to eat sometime during the day, as she couldn't make it until 4:30 when she got home. She was about 5'8" and 100 pounds at the time...

[Laurie4b]

This is my problem with blanket policies like this - no tolerance on down to little things like this.

 

Some kids use the bathroom as an excuse to ditch for a few minutes. It's disruptive. It's annoying. It can be an actual problem. But when you try to take that and turn it into a policy - one bathroom pass per week - then you can't apply common sense. You can't say, hey, here's a student who doesn't usually have this issue or is a good student, or who has a class across campus or whatever.

 

Of course, some teachers never want to apply common sense. There's that too. :glare:

 

:iagree: There is a very good reason that teachers don't willy nilly allow kids to use the bathroom, but it MUST be exercised with judgment. With all of our zero-tolerance policies, we've gotten afraid to use judgment/common sense, lest we (the adults) suffer consequences. Black and white is easier for the adults in charge.

[NicAnn]

Don't even get me started on this one. My daughter had 10 a.m. lunch, after arriving at school at 9 am! I had to get special permission for her to eat sometime during the day, as she couldn't make it until 4:30 when she got home. She was about 5'8" and 100 pounds at the time...

 

Yep. I had 10:30 lunch period. I remember not even able to pay attention in last period because I was so hungry.

 

This was less than 10 years ago too! Schools need a change.

[TranquilMind]

Martha: What amazes me is that the students don't just go anyways. It's like some weird form of learned helplessness?

 

Yes, that's it!

 

 

I'm always astonished at how rare it is for it to occur to kids that noncompliance is an option. Happy when it's mine and me teaching them!

 

 

Yes, you really are right here. But compliance is taught from an early age, so most are indoctrinated that way. I am sure I was too, though now, I am definitely not the most compliant of individuals.

[TranquilMind]

Dds middle school has a weird policy that's rarely enforced. Instead teachers give bathroom tokens and however many are left at the end of the quarter are used for extra grade points. I don't like it, but I haven't told dd to just ignore the teachers because I don't know what would happen then.

 

Why is not going to the bathroom rewarded by a higher grade? That makes no logical sense.

[LibraryLover]

You know, back in the day when children worked 14 hours in factories...and we now consider that horrible and inhumane....things haven't really changed much have they?! What adult would like a job where he had to have his 20 minute lunch at 10 am? Even in the crappiest places I've worked it hasn't been like that.

 

 

The first lunch shift at our high school is at 10:45, which could make the afternoon miserable for those stuck with that shift. The school does have a 10 minute 'refreshment break' where kids are able to snack on food brought from home, or snacks picked up at lunch from the cafeteria. It's can be a bit of a madhouse in the caf at that time, so the smart ones bring something from home, or grab fruit, rather than wait in line for french fries. ;) There are vending machines with lots of junk, but also trail mix (probably junk) and yogurt (also probably junk).

Edited October 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[justLisa]

This is disgusting. The high school I went to was decent. We had more than 2 minutes between classes. I seem to remember a sort of policy we were always told about regarding the bathroom. It was not in writing but all the teachers just sort of adopted it and reminded us at the beginning of the year. You can use the bathroom. Try to make it as quick as possible and don't make a scene in leaving. Try to sort of creep out quietly and try to make sure it is not at the most important part of class. Something like that.

 

The horrible thing I remember was PE. I once had it last period. Well I lived in an area where it was dry and 100 degrees most days in the early fall and late spring. There was just no way I could run outside on the track in that heat. I would almost pass out.

 

ETA: We also had open campus. We could leave for lunch. There were 3 security guards. I liked them. They were mean and scary but nice and fair at the same time. They would catch anyone trying to skip out on class or assembly.

[Joker]

Why is not going to the bathroom rewarded by a higher grade? That makes no logical sense.

 

My guess is they want to curb unnecessary bathroom breaks. I think those that take unnecessary breaks aren't really going to care about a higher grade though.

[boscopup]

:iagree: There is a very good reason that teachers don't willy nilly allow kids to use the bathroom, but it MUST be exercised with judgment. With all of our zero-tolerance policies, we've gotten afraid to use judgment/common sense, lest we (the adults) suffer consequences. Black and white is easier for the adults in charge.

 

Another zero-tolerance policy that was stupid was the no fighting policy. I remember when my school in the early 90s instituted a no fighting policy where both parties automatically went to jail for any fighting at all, plus there were suspensions involved. Well, one guy I know, who was a good student and not involved in gangs or anything like that, had a guy come up and start beating him. He couldn't get away, so he had to defend himself. Everyone saw it and said he was just exercising self-defense. Both kids were arrested AND suspended. It was ridiculous. The other kid should have been punished, but not the kid getting beat up!

[TranquilMind]

TaraTheLiberator: Apparently part of the problem was that after dd was told no, she said very loudly, "I have to change my tampon!" and the teacher felt that this was my dd's attempt to embarrass the her and so she didn't respond in an understanding manner.

It doesn't matter that the teacher felt disrespected. That doesn't change the fact that the girl still had to go to the bathroom. This is not a reasonable place at which to take a stand.

 

 

Dd did tell me that she had said this and that she did have an attitude with the teacher.

 

 

Well, of course she did. This was patently unreasonable on its face. It really doesn't matter who your daughter is.

 

. She also told me that she used to allow students to just take a bathroom pass and go but that it ended up that this policy was being abused.

 

 

This happened in my daughter's school as well. They need to ditch the abusers, not treat everyone like a criminal.

[Dmmetler]

When I was a music teacher in PS, I had an open bathroom policy with the only caveat that if I found out you were playing, wandering around campus, or otherwise abusing the privilege, I'd take it away, and that no more than one person could be out of the room at a time unless it was a complete and utter emergency-if you're going to risk spewing bodily fluids, for heaven's sake, GO!

 

 

Invariably, the first couple of days of the year, I might as well have put a revolving door on my classroom-and after that point, it was a non-issue. In 9 years, I only had one student who proved that he couldn't be trusted with free bathroom access-and I taught 800 kids a year since I only had them for a period a week.

 

I will say that I was lucky-I had two classrooms while in that school, and both were right next to the bathrooms, so no one ever noticed that I wasn't bothering to follow the bathroom pass policies that were in the official handbook-or if they did, they didn't comment on it.

[nertsmommy]

While I was in high school the new principal tried to stop smoking in the bathrooms by locking them. All bathrooms were locked. One bot and one girl bathroom was unlocked during lunch time for use. There was a big uproar over it. It was on the news and in the paper and the principal gave up that rule fairly quickly.

[In The Great White North]

if you're going to risk spewing bodily fluids, for heaven's sake, GO!

 

I wish. I puked in the classroom after the teacher wouldn't let me leave. We were making baskets and had the straw soaking. The whole place smelled nasty. I'm sure it smelled much better after that. :tongue_smilie:

[Luanne]

When my daughter was in kindergarten at a private Christian school she asked to go to the bathroom and the teacher wouldn't let her. She did end up wetting her pants, but she was only 5. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if a 5 year old needs to go to the bathroom, you let them go. Really this applies to any age. It is so stupid.

[Murphy101]

My guess is they want to curb unnecessary bathroom breaks. I think those that take unnecessary breaks aren't really going to care about a higher grade though.

 

It's just stupid. If they need to go then they to go. If they don't need to go and don't want to be in the seat, better they be in the bathroom than disrupting the entire class. Sure little kids need help developing those attention spans, but TEENS? If they don't want to learn, give them the boot. Don't make stupid rules for everyone that doesn't actually help anyone.

[Haiku]

They need to ditch the abusers, not treat everyone like a criminal.

 

My two suggestions for the school, which I share with them every opportunity I get, are:

 

1) Enforce the dress code. It's sad to see how the students dress.

 

2) Kick out the kids who won't do the work. The school is by application only. It requires a lot of work and a huge time commitment. Students know going in that their high school experience will be different from other kids'. Some kids want that. Many are there because their parents forced them to be. There are seniors who have completed only one of the 6 projects you have to complete to graduate. The projects take at least 45 school days each. Why are those kids still there??

 

Tara

[SKL]

I wish. I puked in the classroom after the teacher wouldn't let me leave. We were making baskets and had the straw soaking. The whole place smelled nasty. I'm sure it smelled much better after that. :tongue_smilie:

 

This happened to my sister. She used to get sick to her stomach because she wasn't getting the math lesson (telling time) in 2nd grade. Teacher let her go initially, then decided she was faking. So my sister "faked" all over the classroom. She had much more liberal bathroom policies after that. However, this is a lifelong negative memory and it didn't have to be that way. How about addressing the cause of the "faking" - the child's need for a different teaching approach for telling time? I mean, if a kid is that desperate to get out of the classroom at math time, something isn't right.

[Lady Marmalade]

While I was in high school the new principal tried to stop smoking in the bathrooms by locking them. All bathrooms were locked. One bot and one girl bathroom was unlocked during lunch time for use. There was a big uproar over it. It was on the news and in the paper and the principal gave up that rule fairly quickly.

 

Hmm... You didn't go to high school in small town Wisconsin did you? In our case, I think it was the assistant principal at the time who caused the uproar. One student went to the local newspaper and they did a huge write up about the health concerns over holding ones bladder all day long. The rule quickly disappeared, though after that, the poor teachers had to take turns monitoring the bathrooms during passing time and lunch time.

 

I really felt bad for those teachers who had to pass their time simply standing in the bathroom watching and smelling for smoke.