Is this too esoteric to expect a reference librarian to know?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was looking for a copy of Everyman, the 15 c. morality play. I couldn't find it online at the library so I called a reference librarian. I had to explain to her in detail what the play was before she could help me because she had never heard of it. The play is a common allusion in literature and even modern day movies and t.v. shows. I just heard "The Office" talked about the other day as a modern day "Everyman" show. I wouldn't expect the person down the street to have heard of it necessarily, but a reference librarian? I would expect them to have some basic knowledge of literature, the major works and motifs. What do you say? (She did find me a copy of the play in an anthology, so she did come through for me in the end.)

[Nestof3]

It's standard reading for any intro world lit class in college. I remembered it as soon as you mentioned it. Of course, my high schooler read it too.

[Word Nerd]

We all have gaps in our education. I would just assume this is one of hers and not dwell on it.

[Chris in VA]

But it's a big gap.

 

I can see it on my shelf--it was something ds read.

[LostSurprise]

You do not have to major in literature to become a librarian, nor do you have to take a literature course to become a librarian. Different backgrounds are allowed and even encouraged.

 

If we only had lit. majors/minors then who would know about that odd little physics journal or how to create a better retrieval system for the catalog.

 

Vive la difference.

[LaxMom]

You do not have to major in literature to become a librarian, nor do you have to take a literature course to become a librarian. Different backgrounds are allowed and even encouraged.

 

If we only had lit. majors/minors then who would know about that odd little physics journal or how to create a better retrieval system for the catalog.

 

Vive la difference.

 

:iagree: I'd expect a reference librarian to be able to find it, not be familiar with the work itself.

[stripe]

Each librarian has his or her own strengths. This obviously wasn't hers, but she was still able to help you, so I'd call it a successful encounter. Reference librarians are asked all sorts of stuff. They aren't expected to actually have the answers themselves, but rather to help people find the answers.

[Word Nerd]

:iagree: I'd expect a reference librarian to be able to find it, not be familiar with the work itself.

 

Exactly.

[GailV]

We all have gaps in our education. I would just assume this is one of hers and not dwell on it.

 

:iagree:

 

It could depend on what her undergrad degree is in. I never took a world lit class in college. I've no idea if my sister or brother (both have their MLS) did.

 

It could be that she was having one of those days when she's thinking about her nasty neighbor or crazy brother who just announced he has 2 wives or whatever (you do realize that I'm taking these examples from other posts I just read, correct?), and not on the top of her game.

 

It could be that she isn't actually a reference librarian, but some clerk that has to be at the desk. I did that for years -- I was working at a university library and they needed someone to sit at the reference desk for certain hours in the afternoons. So I did it, answering questions, taking phone calls, whatever. My degree is in horticulture -- believe me, when anyone came in with a question in that field they were QUITE impressed with the "reference librarian's" knowledge. But , say, art history? No, totally clueless. OTOH, my sister's undergrad was in art history, so she could zoom through that stuff.

[EKS]

I would have expected a reference librarian to be familiar enough with the internet to google it while she was talking with you if she didn't immediately know what it was.

[Oakblossoms]

A librarian's job is not to read books or study books. A librarian's job is to categorize, find, retrieve, archive, and all the good stuff that comes with information from the past, present, and the future. She did her job. She asked the correct questions to find it for you.

[Kirch]

ITA about being able to find it vs. necessarily knowing it herself. I've heard "everyman" references, but I had never heard of the play until your post, and I had a pretty decent education. I just always assumed the references were to an idea.

[Twigs]

… I wouldn't expect the person down the street to have heard of it necessarily, but a reference librarian? I would expect them to have some basic knowledge of literature, the major works and motifs. What do you say? …)

 

No, not all librarians are so knowledgable in literature. Some are familiar with lit, or with physics, or with philosophy, …, but they cannot all know all subjects.

 

It's standard reading for any intro world lit class in college. I remembered it as soon as you mentioned it. Of course, my high schooler read it too.

 

The world lit class was much more modern, nothing before the 19th century and mostly focused on 20th century. (Same with the music appreciation class I took. I was very disappointed because I wanted Bach and Handel!)

[momma2three]

I took Intro to World Lit in college (at a school known for its English department), and we didn't read it. I think I've heard of it, but I'm not really familiar with it. I consider myself pretty well educated.

 

I've heard that The Office is a "modern everyman" farce and I just took it to mean that it's about very, very normal people in situations so painfully banal that they are worth mocking. I didn't know it was a reference to a play.

[GailV]

I would have expected a reference librarian to be familiar enough with the internet to google it while she was talking with you if she didn't immediately know what it was.

 

But you can't simply type the term everyman into a google search and come up with anything worthwhile. You need more context.

 

Edit to add: I"m with Kirch -- I never knew it was a play until this thread. I thought it was simply a term used to describe a concept. My first google searches would've bombed out until I got around to phrases like everyman concept reference and then taken the time to actually read the hits while the patron was still talking to me simultaneously (always a good time, especially when someone else is also vying for your attention -- it's like practice for being a homeschool mom).

Edited September 5, 2012 by GailV

[OrganicAnn]

I was a literature major and have read lots of literature and I've not heard of that specific play. I am familiar with the concept of "everyman" in literature and of course morality plays. I can see a library not being familiar with one of these terms.

[Kathryn]

A librarian's job is not to read books or study books. A librarian's job is to categorize, find, retrieve, archive, and all the good stuff that comes with information from the past, present, and the future. She did her job. She asked the correct questions to find it for you.

 

This. One of my Master's Degrees is in library science. My classmates came from all different backgrounds, not just English majors or even humanities.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Good points about the different majors and backgrounds of reference librarians.

[EKS]

But you can't simply type the term everyman into a google search and come up with anything worthwhile. You need more context.

 

 

I typed in "everyman" and the first two hits (both Wikipedia) were on target.

[Nestof3]

I am mistaken because I thought all degrees required an overview literature course. Everyman always seemed up there with Chaucer and Dante to me. But, it wouldn't bother me.

 

Two librarians hadn't heard of The Night at the Museum today. LOL

[dangermom]

Yes, what LostSurprise said. A librarian is not necessarily a specialist in literature; you want some diversity in there. A librarian, however, is always trained to search for what you're looking for, and that's what she did...so, success!

[LibraryLover]

I have to say that one of my greatest fears is my hsers forgetting something I (thought) I taught them. ;)

 

I remember when one of my children went to middle school after hsing, and came home chatting eagerly about "The Fertile Crescent" and Gilgamesh scattered on various tablets, with huge chunks of text missing. :confused:

 

I said, "We studied that. Remember your maps of Mesopotamia and Iraq?" The child was all, "No. We never learned that." His sisters rolled their eyes.

 

What your kid remembers makes or breaks you as a hsing parent.

 

I agree with people who said it was most important that she had the skills to find what you needed.

 

Learning how to learn, and using available resources, is critical. She was able to do that.

Edited September 5, 2012 by LibraryLover

[ThisIsTheDay]

You do not have to major in literature to become a librarian, nor do you have to take a literature course to become a librarian. Different backgrounds are allowed and even encouraged.

 

And you don't have to be a degreed librarian to work as a reference librarian. My county library has a staff of ~22 for two libraries. One definitely has their MLS, and one more might. That's it.

[dollhouse]

We all have gaps in our education. I would just assume this is one of hers and not dwell on it.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Yep. My mom was a reference librarian, with her Masters degree in library science. But she was never as interested in literature as my English major father--she mostly loved nonfiction, and her favorite job was in a medical library. I'm almost sure she wouldn't know what Everyman is. Also remember that not every professor of lit. chooses that work--I'm an English major myself and have never read it.

[Mrs Mungo]

Is it too esoteric for a research librarian to be expected to know? No, I don't think so.

 

Is it particularly surprising that one did not know it? No, not really.

 

Is it good she found what you asked for? Of course!

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Is it good she found what you asked for? Of course!

 

Yes, I appreciated that very much! :D

[Mrs Mungo]

Also remember that not every professor of lit. chooses that work--I'm an English major myself and have never read it.

 

But, you knew it refers to a specific work, right? I majored in lit and it was a frequent reference across the board. I read it on my own, never for a specific class.

[dollhouse]

But, you knew it refers to a specific work, right? I majored in lit and it was a frequent reference across the board. I read it on my own, never for a specific class.

 

Honestly, at risk of sounding ignorant, unless I had run across this thread and jogged my memory that we're talking about a medieval morality play, I probably would have forgotten about it. :blush5: I don't think, as a previous poster mentioned, that it's quite on the same level as Dante or Chaucer. But I'll cut myself some slack because it's been a while since I've taken a lit class and my brain has been more in "Goodnight Moon" land than anything scholarly.

[dollhouse]

And P.S., Mrs Mungo, I LOVE your signature!

[Mrs Mungo]

Honestly, at risk of sounding ignorant, unless I had run across this thread and jogged my memory that we're talking about a medieval morality play, I probably would have forgotten about it. :blush5: I don't think, as a previous poster mentioned, that it's quite on the same level as Dante or Chaucer. But I'll cut myself some slack because it's been a while since I've taken a lit class and my brain has been more in "Goodnight Moon" land than anything scholarly.

 

Which, is a fair point. My girls are both in high school.

[Mrs Mungo]

And P.S., Mrs Mungo, I LOVE your signature!

 

Me too! Especially the bit about St. Francis. Even SWB told me she liked it one day!! :lol:

[redsquirrel]

My dh is a librarian and he suggests looking at project guttenburg or hathitrust.org if you are looking for an online version. He is an electronic resources librarian, not a reference librarian. He can't help you find it in the library but he can help you find it online. Ok, he could..because he makes the catalogue for the library.

 

But, here's the thing, I do have a degree in lit. and I've never heard of it. It just never came up. Chaucer and Dante, yes. Everyman, nope. DH knows of it only because he once was looking for a play to use with his shadow puppet troupe.

 

But, we can both find it in the library.

 

Librarians aren't people who read books all day, just people who know where to find them. Or, in this day and age, people who know how to build the systems to keep track of them.

[dollhouse]

Me too! Especially the bit about St. Francis. Even SWB told me she liked it one day!! :lol:

 

Ha! So cool!

[Mrs Mungo]

Librarians aren't people who read books all day, just people who know where to find them.

 

Which, is why I am not a librarian. :lol:

[AndyJoy]

Librarians aren't people who read books all day, just people who know where to find them. Or, in this day and age, people who know how to build the systems to keep track of them.

 

Which, is why I am not a librarian. :lol:

 

:iagree:Seriously! It's like being diabetic and working in a donut shop--torture!

[dangermom]

:iagree:Seriously! It's like being diabetic and working in a donut shop--torture!

 

Ha! It just means we have piles of books sitting around at home to read. After all, we do get first crack at the new books...

 

My co-worker and I once agreed that the stacks (where the books are shelved) are the best place to be. It's our favorite place. Everything is better in the stacks.

[Audrey]

:iagree: I'd expect a reference librarian to be able to find it, not be familiar with the work itself.

 

 

Exactly. They are expected to find information on any given subject. They are not expected to be the stores of information for any given subject.

[Library Momma]

And you don't have to be a degreed librarian to work as a reference librarian. My county library has a staff of ~22 for two libraries. One definitely has their MLS, and one more might. That's it.

 

Actually in order to hold a job as a librarian in most parts of the country you do need that masters degree. Libraries may have other staff members that do not have a MLS, but I doubt any would have the title librarian.

[stripe]

But the person you get on the phone might not actually be the librarian. For some reason, in my local library, whic is otherwise very good, most of the reference work is not done by librarians.

[redsquirrel]

But the person you get on the phone might not actually be the librarian. For some reason, in my local library, whic is otherwise very good, most of the reference work is not done by librarians.

 

Increasingly it is not, especially in public libraries. To be a librarian one must have an MLS. That is a lot of debt and work only to earn what many public libraries pay. In my city, only the director of the library system is an actual librarian. It never even entered my dh's mind that he would work in a public library or a school library. We met one librarian who worked for a city that had fired all of its school librarians, due to the financial downturn.

 

So many people don't know all that librarians can do, and think they can all be replaced with Google.

[angela in ohio]

This. One of my Master's Degrees is in library science. My classmates came from all different backgrounds, not just English majors or even humanities.

 

Yep. My "friend" in college was a history major who went on to get his MLS.

 

If her undergrad was in English or literature, I would agree that it would be very suprising if she didn't know of it, but if she went on to her MLS from another field, it wouldn't suprise me.

 

It could be worse. I'm sitting in the library for our tiny town, and the librarian has said "I seen" three times to the person she is talking to on the phone. :eek:

Edited September 5, 2012 by angela in ohio

[Harriet Vane]

I have found that many librarians have never heard of many classic titles.

 

Just fyi, Everyman is available as a free download on Project Gutenberg. When I taught it a couple years ago I printed it out and put it in a binder. It was nice because I wrote my teaching notes all over it.

[katilac]

Even lit majors are not going to be familiar with every single 'great' work every written. There is a huge variance in what is taught in an overview course, and I definitely would consider this a second tier work - as in, it may be very worthwhile to be included in the course, but eyebrows won't be raised if it isn't included.

 

No, I would not think it strange for a librarian, a teacher, or any other well read person to not be familiar with it (I'd be surprised if they weren't at all familiar with the phrase, but that's about it).

 

fwiw, I would recognize Everyman as a literary reference, but I would not be nodding and saying, "Ah, of course, the 15th century morality play." Without looking it up, I couldn't even tell you for sure if I read it or not. Not every work resonates with every person, and university was nearly 25 years ago.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Chiming back in.

 

I happen to know that in our very large and good library system that there is a reference librarian assigned to every branch library. When I called, I asked if this person was in and asked to speak to them. She gave me her name and I know who she is. So the person I talked to was indeed a reference librarian.

 

I do appreciate those who reminded me about librarians having different degrees prior to their MLS. I did know that but had forgotten about it.

 

I also appreciate those who have English degrees who mentioned that they were not familiar with the work. We studied it in Junior high and did our own simplified versions of an Everyman play. Later in high school drama club we put on the actual 15th century play for a drama competition. I was well aware of the work but knew that some might consider it more esoteric knowledge, thus my title and basic question in this thread as to just how esoteric it might be in this specific context.

 

I have utmost respect for the librarians in our library system. I know the ones in our branch very well. I worked for 11 years in libraries in my younger years, though not as an actual librarian and have a lot of respect for the profession in general. I am very happy that she found me what I needed. :001_smile:

[momma2three]

Wow, it sounds like you went to an excellent school system. In junior high, the plays we read we Man of La Mancha and Romeo and Juliet.

[AnnaM]

Didnt read the other replies, but I have taken 2 world lit classes and have never heard of it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wow, it sounds like you went to an excellent school system. In junior high, the plays we read we Man of La Mancha and Romeo and Juliet.

 

I went to a college prep boarding school overseas. I know that my schooling is not typical.