Why can't people read? To fix, or not to fix?

[Dmmetler]

I'm coordinating the student art for our local fair-they let each area school and homeschool group enter two pieces per grade level, and since my daughter is entering in other areas that have to be submitted on the same day, I offered to take our group's entries down and to do the paperwork for the group.

 

Well, I got most of the entries yesterday, and I have three that don't meet the contest rules. Things like "pieces must be mounted on posterboard or matted"-and they aren't, or "No identifying information should be on the front of the artwork"-there is. And don't even get me started on "Child's name, name of school, and grade level should be written in BLACK letters on the upper right hand corner of the back of the artwork"-I actually have printed out labels on my computer for this purpose, because over half have missed on that requirement!

 

So...should I go to the effort of trying to fix the entries? Should I submit them as is, knowing that they probably won't be judged and may not be displayed, or should I do something else?

[nukeswife]

I would personally return them to the people that gave them to me stating that they didn't meet the requirements for entry. I would gladly take them back if they fixed what was missing. I guess I see it as an opportunity to reiterate how important it is to read directions. I know the entrants are just kids, but these kids have parent right? Shouldn't the parents at least know how to read directions and follow them before having their kids turn in something like that.

[Princess Peach]

I would contact the three and let them each know how their entries do not meet requirements and give them a time limit to fix them, otherwise they will be submitted as is.

[Mrs Mungo]

I would personally return them to the people that gave them to me stating that they didn't meet the requirements for entry. I would gladly take them back if they fixed what was missing. I guess I see it as an opportunity to reiterate how important it is to read directions. I know the entrants are just kids, but these kids have parent right? Shouldn't the parents at least know how to read directions and follow them before having their kids turn in something like that.

 

I would this. If it failed, then I would probably just fix them. That is just me though.

[SquirrellyMama]

I would also try and return the pieces to get them it fixed. You shouldn't have to but I imagine they will be mad if you don't contact them.

 

Kelly

[Kathryn]

I would contact the three and let them each know how their entries do not meet requirements and give them a time limit to fix them, otherwise they will be submitted as is.

 

This is what I'd do. Or maybe I'd do it myself. Or call them and ask if they wanted me to. I wouldn't submit as is. That seems mean, though, you're right, they should have followed directions. How old are the kids?

[jelbe5]

:(

 

I tend to be harsh in this area. I would submit them as is.

 

I used to work in fundraising and when helping to prepare grants it was important to follow the directions to. the. letter. If the foundation wanted 10 copies of the grant on pink neon paper that was how it should be done. Part of that whole process is weeding out requests.

 

It is unfortunate the kids, and especially their parents, could not follow the instructions. When my oldest dd began entering writing contests I taught her to carefully follow the instructions. They are there for a reason.

 

ETA You could try to return the works if you feel so inclined . . . but what a bunch of hassle for you, and will a lesson be learned?

Edited August 22, 2012 by jelbe5

[Ellie]

Contact the parents and tell them to get it right. If they don't, submit as is. It would not be ethical for you to make any changes/corrections.

I hate that kind of stuff, too. :glare:

[Dmmetler]

My concern is that I need to take the art to the fair Saturday-and it's Wednesday. One reason why I wanted to collect them at the Tuesday co-op was specifically SO I wouldn't be getting work at 9:00 PM on Friday night and have to make sure I had all the student information on the appropriate form at that point (don't get me started on the number of people who do not have their full name/address/phone number in the group directory, either...Uh...if I have to have your child's contact information, I have to have your child's contact information!). I don't really feel like I have time to have parents come, pick up the work, change the mat and bring it back. Every single situation is something that can be fixed by changing the matting.

[Parrothead]

:(

 

I tend to be harsh in this area. I would submit them as is.

 

I used to work in fundraising and when helping to prepare grants it was important to follow the directions to. the. letter. If the foundation wanted 10 copies of the grant on pink neon paper that was how it should be done. Part of that whole process is weeding out requests.

 

It is unfortunate the kids, and especially their parents, could not follow the instructions. When my oldest dd began entering writing contests I taught her to carefully follow the instructions. They are there for a reason.

 

ETA You could try to return the works if you feel so inclined . . . but what a bunch of hassle for you, and will a lesson be learned?

:iagree:I'm weird that way.

 

If you hadn't been the one to turn them in, chances are the other person to do it wouldn't have noticed. Let the chips fall. Personal responsibility and all that.

[Parrothead]

Contact the parents and tell them to get it right. If they don't, submit as is. It would not be ethical for you to make any changes/corrections.

I hate that kind of stuff, too. :glare:

There is this too.

[shanvan]

My concern is that I need to take the art to the fair Saturday-and it's Wednesday. One reason why I wanted to collect them at the Tuesday co-op was specifically SO I wouldn't be getting work at 9:00 PM on Friday night and have to make sure I had all the student information on the appropriate form at that point (don't get me started on the number of people who do not have their full name/address/phone number in the group directory, either...Uh...if I have to have your child's contact information, I have to have your child's contact information!). I don't really feel like I have time to have parents come, pick up the work, change the mat and bring it back. Every single situation is something that can be fixed by changing the matting.

 

I would not be offering my services next year. I'd also let the group know that directions were not followed giving examples of what you encountered. This kind of thing drives me batty. I like that each parent is responsible for entering submissions to our local fair. Making sure my own kids' entries are done correctly and getting them there on time is difficult enough for me.

[Ellie]

My concern is that I need to take the art to the fair Saturday-and it's Wednesday. One reason why I wanted to collect them at the Tuesday co-op was specifically SO I wouldn't be getting work at 9:00 PM on Friday night and have to make sure I had all the student information on the appropriate form at that point (don't get me started on the number of people who do not have their full name/address/phone number in the group directory, either...Uh...if I have to have your child's contact information, I have to have your child's contact information!). I don't really feel like I have time to have parents come, pick up the work, change the mat and bring it back. Every single situation is something that can be fixed by changing the matting.

Then submit the projects just the way they are.

 

If you do this next year, maybe you could do a more comprehensive presentation at the beginning, and repeat the phrase, "If you don't do it just this way, your child's work will have no chance of winning" multiple times. Also repeatedly point out that if you do not have correct contact information, well, you cannot contact people. Or have them turn in the contact information to you *at that time* so you can review it and make them do it over right there.

[Impish]

i'd call the parents, tell them what's wrong, and offer to have them pick it up for corrections...letting them know that regardless of if they get it back to you or not, you'll be submitting on ____. They can drive it up themselves if they so choose, or tell you to go ahead and submit as is.

 

I wouldn't do anything to the submissions myself. Personal responsibility and natural consequences...I'm a fan. :D

[Dmmetler]

i'd call the parents, tell them what's wrong, and offer to have them pick it up for corrections...letting them know that regardless of if they get it back to you or not, you'll be submitting on ____. They can drive it up themselves if they so choose, or tell you to go ahead and submit as is.

 

I wouldn't do anything to the submissions myself. Personal responsibility and natural consequences...I'm a fan. :D

 

 

Actually, they can't drive up and submit it themselves-all work must be submitted AS A SCHOOL, although it's judged separately. I can understand why the fair does it this way-it will be a good sized building filled with movable dividers covered in student art by the time it's through, literally hundreds of pictures per grade level, thousands total.

 

Which is one reason why my DD decided to do crafts this year. She's more than capable of realizing that there are typically 10 or so entries in "Animal made of clay, ages 6-8", while there are likely to be 300+ in "Student visual art, 2nd grade"-and that 10:3 is a lot more favorable ratio than 300:6 when it comes to taking home a ribbon.

 

OK-I'm going to e-mail parents, and give them the choice of fixing their child's work or entering it as-is. Regardless, if I don't have it in my hands Saturday morning, it's not getting entered.

Edited August 22, 2012 by dmmetler

[angela in ohio]

I wouldn't turn them in as they are. That will give homeschoolers a reputation for not following the rules and may endanger future participation for the this homeschool group (or others.)

 

I would call and tell the people to bring the materials they need to fix them to your home, or you won't be able to turn them in. Give them a window of time.

[marbel]

In your situation, I'd call the parents with the problematic art work and tell them they can come get it and fix it by [your deadline] or you can't submit the artwork because it doesn't follow the guidelines given for submission. I would not offer to fix it or do anything else but allow them to get it from you, fix it, and return it.

 

Yes, it's late, and it'll be a hassle. I hope it doesn't become a hassle for you, but for the parents.

 

If they don't come through, you will have enough good ones to submit, won't you?

 

This kind of thing drives me nuts. So often homeschoolers joke about being late to everything ("we're on homeschool time!" gah) or otherwise being casual about requirements because, you know, we're so countercultural and cool. OK, I'm ranting and that's not your issue. But it does give homeschoolers a bad reputation and parents/kids need to know that no one is going to pick up the slack for them if they refuse to pay attention to rules like this.

 

ETA: whoops, I see you are calling the parents. But are you sure you want to submit entries that don't follow the rules?

Edited August 22, 2012 by marbel

[shanvan]

I wouldn't turn them in as they are. That will give homeschoolers a reputation for not following the rules and may endanger future participation for the this homeschool group (or others.)

 

Sadly, it would be an earned reputation.

I would call and tell the people to bring the materials they need to fix them to your home, or you won't be able to turn them in. Give them a window of time.

 

:iagree:

[MamaAkins]

I would personally return them to the people that gave them to me stating that they didn't meet the requirements for entry. I would gladly take them back if they fixed what was missing. I guess I see it as an opportunity to reiterate how important it is to read directions. I know the entrants are just kids, but these kids have parent right? Shouldn't the parents at least know how to read directions and follow them before having their kids turn in something like that.

 

:iagree:

[BrookValley.]

Yep, I'd do what it looks like you've decided to do--contact the parents and let them know they do not meet requirements, and put the responsibility on them to fix or not fix.

 

Good luck. I have no patience for such things! :tongue_smilie:

[QueenCat]

I wouldn't turn them in as they are. That will give homeschoolers a reputation for not following the rules and may endanger future participation for the this homeschool group (or others.)

 

I would call and tell the people to bring the materials they need to fix them to your home, or you won't be able to turn them in. Give them a window of time.

 

:iagree:I wouldn't turn anything in that didn't meet the requirements. Makes your group look bad.

[celticmom]

I would personally return them to the people that gave them to me stating that they didn't meet the requirements for entry. I would gladly take them back if they fixed what was missing. I guess I see it as an opportunity to reiterate how important it is to read directions. I know the entrants are just kids, but these kids have parent right? Shouldn't the parents at least know how to read directions and follow them before having their kids turn in something like that.

 

 

:iagree:This is exactly what I was thinking.

[Tammyla]

I know you are in a time crunch, but I'd call or e-mail the parents to fix them or submit them as is.

[justasque]

I would email, etc. and give folks an opportunity to fix it, since 1) we are all busy moms and any time I can prop someone else up, it's a nice thing to do, 'cause goodness knows sometimes it's me messing up, and 2) if I'm the "face" of the homeschooling group, I want to give the impression of competence.

 

However, next year I'd give them in-person, spoken instructions in advance, and I'd double-check each entry before accepting it.

 

I would NOT fix anything on the entries myself. It's not worth my time, and it's unethical.

[Soror]

Oh, that would be tough. I can see myself being in the same situation. I wouldn't want to turn them in because it makes the group look bad and I wouldn't fix them myself either. I guess I'd call and let them know what needed to be done by the deadline or let them know that they cannot be turned in.

[Truscifi]

I would contact the three and let them each know how their entries do not meet requirements and give them a time limit to fix them, otherwise they will be submitted as is.

 

:iagree: I would give them a second chance to do it properly, and if they didn't I would just enter them as is.

[happi duck]

...This kind of thing drives me nuts. So often homeschoolers joke about being late to everything ("we're on homeschool time!" gah) or otherwise being casual about requirements because, you know, we're so countercultural and cool. OK, I'm ranting and that's not your issue. But it does give homeschoolers a bad reputation and parents/kids need to know that no one is going to pick up the slack for them if they refuse to pay attention to rules like this...

 

:iagree: This sort of stuff makes me nuts too. I've learned that it also is not looked kindly upon to insist that the group be on time and follow the rules...people literally get angry and come up with all kinds of impossible scenarios that would make it okay to be late etc.

 

In 'real life', there are things that can be relaxed and there are other things that must be done correctly and on-time! Besides, it's just polite and respectful to be on-time and follow guidelines for events etc.

 

Btw, the bolded cracks me up. I do think this is a common attitude. :tongue_smilie:

[Word Nerd]

I'd let the entrants know and give them a deadline for fixing the problems; otherwise, I would submit the entries as is. I would not make the corrections myself, as it would be unfair to all those who did follow directions.

[Lady Florida.]

OK-I'm going to e-mail parents, and give them the choice of fixing their child's work or entering it as-is. Regardless, if I don't have it in my hands Saturday morning, it's not getting entered.

 

I would also make sure that they do this at a time and place that's convenient for YOU. They come to your house, meet you someplace where you already plan to be, etc. Do not go out of your way. The responsibility should be on them.

[Word Nerd]

I would also make sure that they do this at a time and place that's convenient for YOU. They come to your house, meet you someplace where you already plan to be, etc. Do not go out of your way. The responsibility should be on them.

 

:iagree:

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, the changes that need to be made are things that, in my DD's former school setting, we're done by the art teacher (and volunteer parents) like matting the art and putting names on the back in the correct format-so I don't think it's unethical for me to do it since I'm the "teacher of record" for the group. I just don't want to do so, since I posted the rules and requested that entries comply with them.

[LaxMom]

In your situation, I'd call the parents with the problematic art work and tell them they can come get it and fix it by [your deadline] or you can't submit the artwork because it doesn't follow the guidelines given for submission. I would not offer to fix it or do anything else but allow them to get it from you, fix it, and return it.

 

Yes, it's late, and it'll be a hassle. I hope it doesn't become a hassle for you, but for the parents.

 

If they don't come through, you will have enough good ones to submit, won't you?

 

This kind of thing drives me nuts. So often homeschoolers joke about being late to everything ("we're on homeschool time!" gah) or otherwise being casual about requirements because, you know, we're so countercultural and cool. OK, I'm ranting and that's not your issue. But it does give homeschoolers a bad reputation and parents/kids need to know that no one is going to pick up the slack for them if they refuse to pay attention to rules like this.

 

ETA: whoops, I see you are calling the parents. But are you sure you want to submit entries that don't follow the rules?

 

I agree with all of this. If a teacher sent this out as an extra-curricular and they were offered for submission like that, I have no doubt that s/he would send it back. Science fair projects would not be accepted without adherence to the suission rules, either.

 

And the attitude marbel describes is a pervasive one here, and one that grates on me, as well. If you don't want to follow rules, don't participate. /end rant

 

Eta: I'm sure there are many art teachers who do the mounting, since they would generally solicit entries from student projects in class. However, you didn't ask students if you could enter a piece of their art from your class. Science fairs, writing contests and other art contests all require that the submission follow specific format guidelines, and they are generally not formatted by anyone but the individual. It is not an unreasonable request on your part.

Edited August 22, 2012 by MyCrazyHouse

[elfgivas]

fwiw, i'd fix it this time.

 

for us, fair is fun, not serious, so if it became "not fun" i would bail. is it possible that some participants just want their kids to see their work at the fair and really aren't that concerned with following rules and regs in this area. ie. is it a nice "extra" for them?

 

next year, i would set aside time at coop to go over the art submissions with the checklist there for the participants to check their work against before turning it in to me. ie. at coop fair art turn in time, i wouldn't take work that didn't match the requirements from the participants.

 

or, if you discover that their needs and yours aren't in line, perhaps have another mom take them next year?

 

fwiw,

ann

[Oak Knoll Mom]

:(

 

I tend to be harsh in this area. I would submit them as is.

 

Same here. You're just the courier service. Let the judges decide whether or not to allow the incorrectly done entries. Not your job.

[Love_to_Read]

I have a question. I think she signed her first name on the front of her art. Is that "identifying information"?

 

Unfortunately....most likely, yes.

[Murphy101]

I wouldn't turn them in as is because I wouldn't want to bashe yet another example of the home schooling stereotype or return them for correction unless I just happened to have lots of extra time, which is unlikely.

 

Yes. (insert activity) is supposed to be fun, but it's really not much fun to spend more time correcting other families screw ups or making exceptions for them than helping my own kids. Odd how everyone is worried about how busy they are and how they want it to be fun, but they never seem to make the connection to why volunteers are in short supply in their group.:glare:

 

And yeah, when they say they are just so busy, I quietly remind them I have 10 kids and no husband around to help (he is traveling lots these days) and we aren't exactly swimming in cash and time here either.

 

I just don't have the patience for this stuff.

[Dmmetler]

Unfortunately....most likely, yes.

 

 

I feel pretty good about that one-she did sign it, but it's in orange oil pastel in a section of the picture that's in orange oil pastel, and it's really not visible unless you're looking for it (and she has lots of other curves and swooshes so cursive blends right in)-I'd missed it entirely when I went through the entries earlier.

[Ellie]

FWIW, the changes that need to be made are things that, in my DD's former school setting, were done by the art teacher (and volunteer parents) like matting the art and putting names on the back in the correct format-so I don't think it's unethical for me to do it since I'm the "teacher of record" for the group. I just don't want to do so, since I posted the rules and requested that entries comply with them.

Then don't do it. The parents received clear, precise instructions. This may be the moment when they learn how their own lack of follow-through causes problems for their children.

[Murphy101]

School teachers doing it doesn't make it right either.

 

Ug. That is so very annoying.

 

Thou shalt not perpetuate bad behavior.;)

[Ellie]

School teachers doing it doesn't make it right either.

 

Ug. That is so very annoying.

 

Thou shalt not perpetuate bad behavior.;)

:iagree:

[Soror]

I feel like such a loser. :crying:

 

No need for that, we all make mistakes. I'm sure you won't miss the instructions next time. I know I've done bonehead things myself. I wouldn't turn the work in if it was not done right but there is no reason to feel horrible or such.

[Dmmetler]

:blushing: That's OK-I'd forgotten that there were people who were entered locally who were on the hive :). I didn't intend to make anyone feel bad-only get some ideas about what to do next and get a little less annoyed BEFORE I started calling/e-mailing folks!

[Murphy101]

I feel like such a loser. :crying:

 

You aren't a loser for having a bad or hectic day. We have all btdt.:grouphug:

 

You aren't a loser for not reading the directions or not having done it ahead of time. We have all slipped and btdt too.:grouphug:

 

If you are understanding and accepting that it means the entry doesn't qualify, then there is certainly no quarrel there either.:grouphug:

 

I don't think anyone has an issue with any of those three things.:grouphug:

 

However, usually where I see the thorn is when it seems the first two things are the norm to be expected and the third never happens. Iow, when I mess up, I don't get mad at other people for not rearranging their plans to suit me or because they don't stop and do it for me or because they didn't remind me multiple times or or ... I just figure I'll do better next time and move on.

 

So. If you are the first three examples, then hugs and it's just a lesson to note for future contests participation. And please thank her for making the extra effort to extend some extra time towards you so the entry can make it.:grouphug:

 

If however, you are one of the moms who calls furious and demanding that exceptions be made or that they do it for you or insisting how unreasonable the requirement were? Yeahhhh. That's not nice.

 

I am sure you are a nice person,:D but some of us have had plenty of not nice experiences to base our opinions on. Which really sucks for everyone.:grouphug:

[Murphy101]

No need for that, we all make mistakes. I'm sure you won't miss the instructions next time. I know I've done bonehead things myself. I wouldn't turn the work in if it was not done right but there is no reason to feel horrible or such.

 

:iagree:

[marbel]

 

 

So. If you are the first three examples, then hugs and it's just a lesson to note for future contests participation. And please thank her for making the extra effort to extend some extra time towards you so the entry can make it.:grouphug:

 

If however, you are one of the moms who calls furious and demanding that exceptions be made or that they do it for you or insisting how unreasonable the requirement were? Yeahhhh. That's not nice.

 

I am sure you are a nice person,:D but some of us have had plenty of not nice experiences to base our opinions on. Which really sucks for everyone.:grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree: Perfect!

[TranquilMind]

I would personally return them to the people that gave them to me stating that they didn't meet the requirements for entry. I would gladly take them back if they fixed what was missing. I guess I see it as an opportunity to reiterate how important it is to read directions. I know the entrants are just kids, but these kids have parent right? Shouldn't the parents at least know how to read directions and follow them before having their kids turn in something like that.

 

This. They need to learn to follow direction. College and bosses later are not so forgiving. Make it a habit now. The ones who care or made inadvertent mistakes -and we all do that - will fix them quickly.

[Soror]

You aren't a loser for having a bad or hectic day. We have all btdt.:grouphug:

 

You aren't a loser for not reading the directions or not having done it ahead of time. We have all slipped and btdt too.:grouphug:

 

If you are understanding and accepting that it means the entry doesn't qualify, then there is certainly no quarrel there either.

 

I don't think anyone has an issue with any of those three things.

 

However, usually where I see the thorn is when it seems the first two things are the norm to be expected and the third never happens. Iow, when I mess up, I don't get mad at other people for not rearranging their plans to suit me or because they don't stop and do it for me or because they didn't remind me multiple times or or ... I just figure I'll do better next time and move on.

 

So. If you are the first three examples, then hugs and it's just a lesson to note for future contests participation. And please thank her for making the extra effort to extend some extra time towards you so the entry can make it.

 

If however, you are one of the moms who calls furious and demanding that exceptions be made or that they do it for you or insisting how unreasonable the requirement were? Yeahhhh. That's not nice.

 

I am sure you are a nice person,:D but some of us have had plenty of not nice experiences to base our opinions on. Which really sucks for everyone.

 

:iagree: with you as well. :)

[TranquilMind]

ETA You could try to return the works if you feel so inclined . . . but what a bunch of hassle for you, and will a lesson be learned?

 

Well, maybe. I would not immediately assume that all of them routinely screw up unless I already knew this from previous dealings. It actually could be an honest, one-time mistake.

[Soror]

Well, maybe. I would not immediately assume that all of them routinely screw up unless I already knew this from previous dealings. It actually could be an honest, one-time mistake.

It could be, who knows, but either way it is not the OP's responsibility to fix the mistake. The consequence should be put where it is due. I'm sure there are those who just missed the instructions, forgot, etc. I'm sure there are others that just didn't care. Unfortunately the consequence is the same for both. For those who just had an oversight they likely won't again. No big deal, this isn't life or death.

[Dmmetler]

In fairness, this was very much a case of "Everything coming in at one time". In my case, I taught a co-op class yesterday, so I didn't even LOOK at the art entries until I got them home. If I had, I could have handed them back to parents then-and I should have done exactly that. And so far, the parents that I've contacted have been more than willing to make changes and haven't complained to me about it. I think in some cases, it was that the parent put the responsibility on the child and didn't check what they'd done, especially for families with multiple kids.