At what age should young adults have it together?

[Night Elf]

Dd20 works 2 jobs, and is just okay with both of them. She has worked full time since she was 17 yrs. old and enjoys supporting herself. Well, supporting herself while she lives at home and doesn't have rent and utilities to pay. She needs a roommate and none of her friends are in a position to move in with her. I tried getting her into a 2-yr. college for this semester. I did all of the paperwork while she hemmed and hawed. I explained that it was better to be accepted and then change her mind about going instead of deciding to go at the last minute and not have enough time to do paperwork. Well, it came down to her needing to take the COMPASS math exam and she procrastinated. She didn't go. She has no idea if she wants to go to school. She has no idea what kind of job she wants to work long term. She's currently babysitting an 8 yr old four nights per week, and working as a restaurant server mornings and weekends.

 

I know it's tough to make adult choices. But at what age should I start worrying that she's headed for trouble? At least she's working and likes working. That's a good thing. I guess it's also possible she'll just live with me until she gets married but her love life is very complicated right now. The boyfriend lives in another state and has no direction in life right now either. Egads. She's got financial obligations, including a $200/mo. car payment for another 4 yrs. Her last car was paid off but she was paying for repairs nearly every month. None of us could afford to buy another car outright again. Am I worrying too much? Yes, I'm worrying too much, huh?

[Dobela]

I don't know. I am 42 and my mother says I will never have it all together so I guess some of it is just a matter of opinion. If she isn't interested in college though, I wouldn't push it. It could add more debt, stress, and unhappiness at this point. When she is ready, and motivated, then she can tackle that. I started college, even though I really wasn't ready, and then dropped out. My parents flipped. After a year of working and taking time to discover what I wanted to do, I was a much better student.

[Mandylubug]

stop filling out her school applications, etc. If she wants it bad enough, she can handle it herself. My parents never filled out one form for me once I left high school. Heck, they rarely filled out everything while I was IN high school. I was expected to be competent and independent enough to get it done.

 

At 20, I was married with a baby on the way, going to college and working full time.

 

Life direction? Is there ever a definite life direction? Life comes in seasons.. if she is happy with her season, so be it. My parents rules were always, if you are going to live at home after high school, you will attend college. If you are finished with college or choose to not attend yet, please move out. For the record, me and DH believe in the same rules and have already had discussions as such with my boys that are 9 and 10. There comes a time when they will be expected to be the adult.

 

eta: and I am not stating an 18 year old or 20 year old will "have it all together" but more stating that by that age, they are old enough to learn from their mistakes and move past them.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Mandylubug

[elegantlion]

You're worrying too much.

 

I wanted out of the house and got married at 19 to do it. I did love the guy and got married to stay that way. He apparently got married to win back his old girlfriend. :glare:3 years later and one divorce later I was back at home with my parents with more baggage than I needed. I was happy working and having a life that didn't involve school.

 

She's being productive, right?

 

I know, for me, I needed to not be in school for a while after high school. I didn't go back and probably should have, but I don't regret not going right after high school.

 

The issue arose that I thought once I didn't find myself in education that that path was closed after a certain age.

 

I would rather have my child home and happy than struggling with rent alone, getting married to think that starts a life.

 

Gah, this makes sense in my head, but you're not in there, so hopefully this makes some sort of sense. :lol:

[Chris in VA]

Oh, I hear you.

 

A suggestion--

 

Could you and your hubby sit her down and tell her that you are so pleased with the way she is trying to be responsible, and would like to encourage her to experience the "real world" while having the safety net of living at home, so from Sept 15th on, her rent will be (whatever it would cost to rent a room in someone's house--here, it's around $300). Tell her you will revisit her rent in 6 months.

 

Sometimes, when parents do this, they save half or all of the "rent" money and gift the adult child with it for first/last/security dep when the child moves out. Sometimes they don't. Your call, of course. Either way, don't tell her what you will be doing with the $, because it's not an incentive if she thinks you are just going to give it back to her.

 

If she has to budget for rent, she may realize that she either needs to go to school/training so she can get a job that pays enough to afford living on her own, or choose another job she can do now that pays more.

 

I would stop filling out paperwork, looking for jobs online FOR her (I did this for ds, don't know if you do this, too), or in any other way, take action or "help" her.

 

She needs to get brave enough to fly using her own wings.

 

Boy, do I know it's hard on Mama. :grouphug::grouphug:

[Haiku]

At 20 she should have some idea of what she wants to be doing. If "working as a server, babysitting, living with mom, and dating a guy who isn't marriage material" is what she wants, that's fine, if you're fine with her living with you.

 

Beyond that, I'd stay out of it unless she asks for your advice. You should not be filling out college paperwork for your 20 year old. She has to want it enough to do it for herself. It's not enough for you to want it. My dd18 would be happy to let me handle everything and do very little on her own behalf. I have ALWAYS told her that if she doesn't want it enough to do it on her own, she must not want it very much.

 

Tara

[redsquirrel]

My mom didn't require us to go to college, but if we didn't then we had to pay rent. Full time student? No rent. Half time student? Half rent.

 

Your daughter sounds fine, and doing better than some her age. But, I suggest you require her to start contributing to the household. However, along with that you stop filling out her paperwork and keeping track of her coming and going etc.

 

She needs to have a bit more responsibility and you need to have less.

[Night Elf]

Yeah, I can see that I probably shouldn't have done the paperwork for her. I just know that she gets scared and puts things off and then jumps in with both feet. There isn't anything else I do for her. I just wanted this to be an option for the fall. I dropped it all about 3 weeks ago and left the ball in her court. I guess if she changes her mind for next semester she can call the school and ask if they can pull her incomplete file and let her continue with it.

 

I haven't asked for rent because she saves money. She's actually better with money than I am. Besides, I feel really weird about asking her to pay rent. This has always been her home and I just plain don't agree with the concept. I do understand the argument that paying rent makes a person responsible but I think she's already very responsible. I just can't get past the whole idea that family helps not hinders.

[klmama]

It isn't hindering to help her understand adult expenses. If you aren't comfortable having her pay rent, what about contributing to food expenses? The electric bill? Water bill? Having to pay adult expenses, even at a reduced level, may give her the incentive she needs to seek out better employment options.

[Kathryn]

Yeah, I can see that I probably shouldn't have done the paperwork for her. I just know that she gets scared and puts things off and then jumps in with both feet. There isn't anything else I do for her. I just wanted this to be an option for the fall. I dropped it all about 3 weeks ago and left the ball in her court. I guess if she changes her mind for next semester she can call the school and ask if they can pull her incomplete file and let her continue with it.

 

I haven't asked for rent because she saves money. She's actually better with money than I am. Besides, I feel really weird about asking her to pay rent. This has always been her home and I just plain don't agree with the concept. I do understand the argument that paying rent makes a person responsible but I think she's already very responsible. I just can't get past the whole idea that family helps not hinders.

 

If she really is saving, this wouldn't help, but I've heard of famines that require rent for adult children but put it into a savings account for when the child moves out. They're learning responsibility/budgeting, but still saving for the future.

[Georgiana Daniels]

It really depends on what you think having their act together means. My daughter has her act together more so than I did at her age, but that doesn't mean I'm happy with each of her decisions.

 

Generally, I think it's taking young adults longer to start acting like adults than it did a generation ago. Is it the economy and the fact it's harder to make a go of it? Is it the work ethic of today's youth and expecting things to be handed to them? Not sure, but I see a difference from 20 years ago.

[Haiku]

I do understand the argument that paying rent makes a person responsible but I think she's already very responsible. I just can't get past the whole idea that family helps not hinders.

 

I don't know your daughter at all, but hemming and hawing to the point that she loses the opportunity to enroll in school is not responsible.

 

And it doesn't hinder a person to ask them to contribute to the household expenses.

 

Your dd should have some internal motivation, but if you have no expectations that she take on some adult responsibilities, it's easy for that internal motivation to wither.

 

Tara

[Chris in VA]

It isn't hindering to help her understand adult expenses. If you aren't comfortable having her pay rent, what about contributing to food expenses? The electric bill? Water bill? Having to pay adult expenses, even at a reduced level, may give her the incentive she needs to seek out better employment options.

 

:iagree:

 

It may feel like hindering, but it really isn't (just mo, of course).

 

What is she saving for, if not to move out?

 

I really understand the sort of weird transition period--Of course your house is still her home. It will always be, in a way. But there is a time when she will establish her own home. It's just a strange thing, to me, and I really struggled with it with ds. My heart ached as I realized he could no longer live here--but I recently told him,

 

"My heart is always with you. If 'Home is where the heart is,' then, no matter where you go, you will always be Home."

 

Like I said, it's a transition time for her. It's a kind and loving thing for you to help her transition to having a home that SHE makes. It's what adults do--make their OWN home. It doesn't mean she is losing her childhood home, but that's what it is--her CHILDHOOD home. There's a distinction that is a bit hard for some parents (like me) to bear, but it's necessary to do so, so that our adult children can grow and fully realize their adulthood.

 

Said gently, and with much compassion.

[Happy]

Both of my guys had weird times at about that age. They really didn't know who or what they were or what they wanted. It's sooooo hard being the mom, wanting great things for your child, knowing how to go about getting those things in process...it's HARD to sit on your hands and not do those things. ESPECIALLY if you did have it more together at that age!

 

But...like the little butterfly emerging from the cocoon....if you help too much they don't get stronger and the butterfly will die. The struggle IS part of the process of growing.

 

If she is working fulltime, rejoice. She is doing something.

 

The one thing I would do is keep exposing her to all kinds of people. Have interesting and accomplished people into your home if you can. Perhaps hearing them talk (just general conversation, not TALK) will spark something.

 

Keep reminding her that you love her and think she can do anything she puts her mind to!

 

If you decide at some point to start charging rent, give her six months warning. As in, when you turn 21, we expect $200 a month in rent or whatever so you have practice paying rent before you move out. I'd save it up for her and give it to her when she is ready to put a deposit down on an apartment.

 

Good luck to you! It DOES get better, but it may get more discouraging first.

[lea_lpz]

stop filling out her school applications, etc. If she wants it bad enough, she can handle it herself. My parents never filled out one form for me once I left high school. Heck, they rarely filled out everything while I was IN high school. I was expected to be competent and independent enough to get it done.

 

At 20, I was married with a baby on the way, going to college and working full time.

 

Life direction? Is there ever a definite life direction? Life comes in seasons.. if she is happy with her season, so be it. My parents rules were always, if you are going to live at home after high school, you will attend college. If you are finished with college or choose to not attend yet, please move out. For the record, me and DH believe in the same rules and have already had discussions as such with my boys that are 9 and 10. There comes a time when they will be expected to be the adult.

 

eta: and I am not stating an 18 year old or 20 year old will "have it all together" but more stating that by that age, they are old enough to learn from their mistakes and move past them.

 

:iagree:

 

I feel like parents who feel out their kids paperwork and applications are really going to hinder them. If they can't do that themselves they won't possibly be able to handle a college level course load! I am in an educational counseling masters program. I've interned at UC Berkeley and in community college. Young adults pushed into going to school by their parents don't do well, and when they go back, those poor grades will still be there. Even if they start at a different community college, and get all a's, those transcripts from the school they did poorly at must be sent to the 4 year college they apply to and averaged into their over all gpa. If it's discovered that information was withheld, their admission is revoked. That being said, I've met lots of twenty something's getting failing classes and getting mostly D's & C's, because when they aren't ready, don't want to be there, and have no real career or academic goal, they don't succeed :(.

 

Mandylubug:

So much alike! I was married at 19, had my dd at 21, graduated at 23 from UC Berkeley with a 2 year old and was 9 months pregnant. I started grad school the upcoming fall with 2 month old. I had no help. I applied for school, found my own apartment, applied for scholarships on my own. When I got pregnant, I found my own OB, applied for family housing and childcare myself and applied for financial aid myself. I saught my own internships, decided to apply to graduate school and got accepted into a master's program myself.

[Night Elf]

What is she saving for, if not to move out?

 

Oh it is. It's for her future. She's even started buying things for an apartment like cookware, shower curtain, towels, etc. She knows she wants to move, she just doesn't have anywhere to go. Rents here are about $1,000. She simply cannot pay that much on her own especially since she has the rest of her bills and the fact that she has to eat. Her tentative plan is to move in with her boyfriend and one of their good friends in about a year. They are all saving money. It's just that the guys keep switching jobs. My dd is the only one who holds a steady job.

 

Said gently, and with much compassion.

 

No, that's cool. I do understand. I guess it's just hard when I know so much more than I can express in words here. Dd20 is very responsible. Just because she dragged her feet on the college thing that she isn't even sure she wants to do doesn't make her irresponsible. *I* was the one pushing that, not her. As for money, she really doesn't take a dime from me. I had to drag her to Kohls the other day and the only reason she went is because I had Kohls cash and wasn't spending any of my own money. I don't know how she became so fiercely financially independent. I'm just worried about her job prospects. She isn't happy being a server but she feels she isn't skilled in anything else. I suggested retail but she's afraid they'll pay minimum wage and her serving job with tips pays much better than that. She's making decent money right now, just not enough to afford a $1K apartment. She looked at all the possibilities and the only one that could really work is to move an hour away where there is a college with people living in off campus housing. But it would mean leaving her job and all of her friends. She's just not ready to do that yet. If she has to move that far, she really wants a friend to go with her.

 

I started the thread because I'm curious about what people think about the ages or stages of young adulthood. For me, I'm hoping she's settled down by the time she's 25. Until then, things are just iffy and scary. Heck, I was already in a bad marriage with a baby and in debt at that age because I had made a series of bad choices. She's already light years ahead of me at that age in common sense. :tongue_smilie:

[momto10blessings]

It's hard to say.. I was married, working full time, going to college part time and due with my first child when I was 20. We were young and stupid and had no idea what we were doing, but we were doing it.

 

I think you should be supportive of her, but not too overbearing. She's an adult now and needs to make her own decisions. She will mess up. You live and learn. You should have clear expectations of her when she's living in your house. She should contribute towards food, household responsibilities, etc

[kroe1]

47 years of age

 

:)

[AnneBlessedx4]

My oldest ds is almost 19. He just started a course at the local tec college, and is working full time. We have always told our kids that as long as they are being productive (college, schooling, work in some combo) that they are welcome to live here. I have a hard time deciding what I should do for him and what I shouldn't. He knows how to do laundry, but I do everyone else's, so I'd prefer to just do his, too. When he's here, he helps w chores, etc. He contributes by picking up milk or other things when I need him to. He likes to take us all out to eat.

[Haiku]

I don't know how she became so fiercely financially independent. I'm just worried about her job prospects. She isn't happy being a server but she feels she isn't skilled in anything else.

 

I'm not trying to harp on your dd, just sharing my thoughts as the mom of a newly minted 18 year old. First, if she's living at home and not paying a dime, she's not fiercely financially independent. She is, in fact, completely dependent on you. Not allowing you to buy her something at Kohl's is not the same as being financially independent.

 

And second, if she's not happy being a server, feels she is not skilled to do anything else, and still drags her feet about enrolling in a community college (where she doesn't even have to pick a program or a major yet), I would call that rather immature.

 

Mature people don't complain about the situation they are in but do nothing. Mature people take action. I'm not saying your dd is complaining, but if she's not happy about her current circumstances but is not pursuing steps to change them, then she is not as mature (imo) as you or she may think she is.

 

Again, just my opinion.

 

Were it me, I would mention what I just told you to my dd. In fact, my dd and I have had many discussions about what it actually means to be mature, responsible, and independent. In our family, living at home rent-free with a mediocre job that's not self-supporting and no plans for higher training/education would not meet the criteria.

 

I do realize that every family is different. Just sharing my thoughts.

 

Tara

[Night Elf]

I'm not trying to harp on your dd, just sharing my thoughts as the mom of a newly minted 18 year old. First, if she's living at home and not paying a dime, she's not fiercely financially independent. She is, in fact, completely dependent on you. Not allowing you to buy her something at Kohl's is not the same as being financially independent.

 

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. She pays for everything she does or uses including tylenol. She buys groceries for the household even when she rarely eats at home. She takes her little sister to go have her nails done. I really don't contribute to her life monetarily. The only thing we do is not charge her rent. I just don't see how that isn't financially independent. Okay, if she can't afford to rent an apartment solo, then she isn't financially independent. I'll give you that point. But there are lots of adults in this economy who are living with family and surely they don't consider themselves to be financially dependent on the homeowners, do they? or is it just different because she's my dd and not a neice or cousin or something? or someone who is much older?

 

And just fwiw, by your definition, I'm not mature either. Really. I am not an outspoken, take action type of person in the least. And yet I'm doing okay in life. :)

[J-rap]

Twenty is not very old; a lot of young adults don't have it together at that age! Our 20 year-old did various things including studying at a university for two years, and now... is back home with us. :) She just doesn't know what she wants to do. The main thing I DON'T want her to do though is to choose a path that is not in her best interest just because she feels pressured to make some sort of a decision.

 

Can you try and encourage your daughter to take on a project to expand her horizons a bit -- a community project, a community ed course, an art class, even blogging about a special interest? Sometimes being exposed to different things sparks an interest that motivates them to keep going. I also liked someone else's idea of exposing her to different people. Other people might have an interesting job or idea that sparks her curiosity.

 

Is she content and peaceful, or does she seem frustrated and bored? That would drive my involvement in her life.

 

I must say that I agree with others that MOST of the time a 20 year-old needs to take responsibility for filling out her own forms and planning her own future, but I also think that once in awhile -- in certain circumstances -- it's okay to step in as the parent and take the bull by the horns.

 

I have one child who dragged her feet and didn't want to do anything after high school, and it seemed that she was just allowing herself to glide down paths that led nowhere. I DID fill out her school application, and it seemed to be just the boost she needed to get going. From then on, she was motivated to keep going on her own, and that was the last time I ever had to fill out anything for her. :)

 

Some kids just lack the drive to get started or make a change. If it means you need to walk them through it this time, I think it's okay to do it as a learning experience. Hopefully she would learn from it, and next time she will take initiative on her own.

 

As far as charging her rent: if you are uncomfortable doing that, is she involved in helping around the house?

[myfunnybunch]

:grouphug:When young adults should have it together and when they actually do get it together are apples and oranges for many young adults.

 

I have a 19 y.o. who's always been on her own schedule. She's never really followed the same trajectory as other people her age. I try to remind myself now the same things I told myself when the children were toddlers: Every child (or young person) develops in their own time frame.

 

We're seeing glimmers of independence and responsibility, so we're not as worried as we used to be. I look at our young adult neighbor, who is moving out of his house to finish college and work in another town. He's 24? 25? Five years ago we would not have missed him one little bit. Today we're sad he's moving. He's grown up into a fine young man. It's reassuring to see that.

 

I agree with your assessment of your dd's independence, btw, that she's quite independent even though she lives in your home. She's happy with what she's doing right now. She's looking to her future. You've said she's ahead of where you were at her age. She'll figure things out, and her regrets and her victories will be her own. :)

 

Of course you're worrying! And you're encouraging her and you're seeing all of the bright spots and possible pitfalls. That's our job. :grouphug:

 

Cat

[Haiku]

But there are lots of adults in this economy who are living with family and surely they don't consider themselves to be financially dependent on the homeowners, do they?

 

I don't know whether this was rhetorical question or not, and I can't speculate on how other people feel about their situations, but I will say that if my dh lost his job and we had to move into someone else's home and we were not paying them rent, then yes, I would feel financially dependent on them. If I can't afford my own home (house, apartment, whatever) and am living for free with someone else, I consider that dependent.

 

ETA: And we've told dd18 as much. She seems to think that being 18 gives her license to do whatever she wants, regardless of how it affects the people she lives with. We have told her that if she chooses to live here rent-free, she is a dependent, and the "my house, my rules" idea is in effect. If she chooses to pay 1/5th of the living expenses, she is then a tenant and can do pretty much as she pleases. I'm not saying you have to do this with your child; I'm just letting you know that I'm not saying one thing and doing another in my own family.

 

Tara

Edited August 20, 2012 by TaraTheLiberator

[fairfarmhand]

You're worrying too much.

 

I wanted out of the house and got married at 19 to do it. I did love the guy and got married to stay that way. He apparently got married to win back his old girlfriend. :glare:3 years later and one divorce later I was back at home with my parents with more baggage than I needed. I was happy working and having a life that didn't involve school.

 

She's being productive, right?

 

I know, for me, I needed to not be in school for a while after high school. I didn't go back and probably should have, but I don't regret not going right after high school.

 

The issue arose that I thought once I didn't find myself in education that that path was closed after a certain age.

 

I would rather have my child home and happy than struggling with rent alone, getting married to think that starts a life.

 

Gah, this makes sense in my head, but you're not in there, so hopefully this makes some sort of sense. :lol:

 

well said.

[Kathryn]

When I was twenty, I was married and attending college full-time, though not yet working. My husband worked two jobs. We lived at my mother's house and paid whatever she required (which varied from rent to certain bills to buying groceries/household goods, working around the house, and preparing meals). My mother's sole contribution to our lives was providing us a room to live in. She did nothing in terms of my education, in counseling me/us financially, paying for my large medical bills, buying clothes, etc. We didn't move out until I was twenty-five. We still didn't consider ourselves financially independent until we moved out. Different people have different ideas of what having it together means. But for us, it meant being completely financially independent. If we ever had to move back in with her, yes, we'd consider ourselves financially dependent on her.

[Plucky]

 

ETA: And we've told dd18 as much. She seems to think that being 18 gives her license to do whatever she wants, regardless of how it affects the people she lives with. We have told her that if she chooses to live here rent-free, she is a dependent, and the "my house, my rules" idea is in effect. If she chooses to pay 1/5th of the living expenses, she is then a tenant and can do pretty much as she pleases. I'm not saying you have to do this with your child; I'm just letting you know that I'm not saying one thing and doing another in my own family.

 

Tara

 

The newly 18 is another fun age. My 18ds has always been very responsible and we treated him as a young adult from the age of 16. Suddenly at 18 he was saying things like, "It's mine. I should have it." and other gibberish. I told him that we'd give him his stuff and he could give us all our stuff back and that included his room and car. He looked a bit startled but got the point.

 

It takes a while for them to figure out that a real adult supports themselves. Turning 18 is not enough. You can't proclaim you are an adult to your parents and ask them to pay for everything. Poor kid, reality can be unpleasant. :lol:

[Mommyof4ks]

At 20 I was married, pregnant, working full time and going to college part time, but I seemed to be the exception to the rule.

 

My sister is 30 and still does not know what she wants to do with her life, so I have no idea when most people figure it out.

[bettyandbob]

My oldest is 17, so I don't know if my thoughts are reasonable since I haven't btdt.

 

I think if one of my dc had graduated high school and was not in college, I'd want them to either have a clear plan or be working on developing a clear plan. Babysitting and working as a server while living at home is not a plan by itself. It's just a way to stagnate. I'd want my dc to be moving forward even if slowly.

 

Being a restaurant server could be part of a plan if the plan is saving money to enroll in X, Y, Z program.

 

It sounds like your dd has no idea what she wants to do. Has she ever taken career and personality exploration tests. It might be worth it to go through this. Once she does that and has some ideas for which her interests, abilities and personality are a match she could find some volunteer positions in those areas while still keeping her current job. Taking these steps to analyze what she might enjoy and be good at might give her better focus. We have nice women's counseling center that does this type of testing and career counseling, but I think you could get this at community colleges as well.

 

I think she should pay some rent. Not market rate. It could be something small like $50-100/month just to make it clear that she is an adult and should be taking care of that. You could make a stipulation that no rent is required if she is enrolled in cc, a vocational training program, or is actively going through the vocational counseling process to determining what sort of training she should try to get.

[Aggie]

She sounds like a wonderful dd. I love hearing that she's working 2 jobs!

 

When she was in school, did she ever write her own obituary? If not, have her do that. It tends to take the focus off what seems important *right now* and put it into a life-long perspective.

 

Dh and I want our dc to be able to support themselves as soon as possible. There is no time to "find yourself" around here. :D Finish school and get a J.O.B. that will support you and your family, if necessary.

 

I would encourage her to try something that will yield a living wage. Anything. College may not be the answer for her, but it might lead her to something she's interested in. Nothing will be lost by taking a course or two. Start with electives, perhaps. IME, it's better to be doing something, even if it's wrong, than stay with the status quo.

 

One of our dc is a free-spirit. Without any guidance and encouragement, she would go through life without any direction, and be perfectly content. While we don't see anything wrong with that for some people, it's difficult to live like this once you have children. We've approached our discussions with her from this angle. We are not rich, but if we'd make different decisions when we were younger, her life could be significantly different/better.

 

gotta run...

 

ETA: I should have waited for Betty to post. :D

Edited August 20, 2012 by Aggie

[Luanne]

I also think that a lot of people have misconceptions due to their marrying and/or having children at a young age. They assume because it worked for them and they were mature at age 19 or 20 that EVERYONE should be and is. I think things have changed with the times as well. People are living longer and aren't maturing as fast as they used to.

[Night Elf]

I don't know whether this was rhetorical question or not, and I can't speculate on how other people feel about their situations, but I will say that if my dh lost his job and we had to move into someone else's home and we were not paying them rent, then yes, I would feel financially dependent on them. If I can't afford my own home (house, apartment, whatever) and am living for free with someone else, I consider that dependent.

 

Fair play. It just sounds like such an ugly way to put it. I had to move back in with my mom after I separated from my first husband. I hated it but I didn't feel like I depended on her. If someone would have told me I was financially dependent on her I would have freaked out! :tongue_smilie:

 

Okay so dd20 is not financially independent, but she is working towards it. And she won't take financial assistance other than free room and board. I'll consider her doing well. I would rather her be working in a job that has a future, but it's not my call. And who's to say what the future holds.

[Haiku]

I would rather her be working in a job that has a future, but it's not my call. And who's to say what the future holds.

 

I'm in agreement with you on both counts. As a new-mother-of-18-year-old, I am finding myself having to do a lot more tongue-holding when she makes decisions I think are not the wisest ...

 

Tara

[ChristyB in TN]

Oh, I hear you.

 

A suggestion--

 

Could you and your hubby sit her down and tell her that you are so pleased with the way she is trying to be responsible, and would like to encourage her to experience the "real world" while having the safety net of living at home, so from Sept 15th on, her rent will be (whatever it would cost to rent a room in someone's house--here, it's around $300). Tell her you will revisit her rent in 6 months.

 

Sometimes, when parents do this, they save half or all of the "rent" money and gift the adult child with it for first/last/security dep when the child moves out. Sometimes they don't. Your call, of course. Either way, don't tell her what you will be doing with the $, because it's not an incentive if she thinks you are just going to give it back to her.

 

If she has to budget for rent, she may realize that she either needs to go to school/training so she can get a job that pays enough to afford living on her own, or choose another job she can do now that pays more.

 

I would stop filling out paperwork, looking for jobs online FOR her (I did this for ds, don't know if you do this, too), or in any other way, take action or "help" her.

 

She needs to get brave enough to fly using her own wings.

 

Boy, do I know it's hard on Mama. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

This is awesome advice!

[ChristyB in TN]

At 20 I worked as a waitress and had already quit college. I had a teensy apartment with a room mate and barely squeezed by financially. I had not one clue what sort of planning it took to live at the socioeconomic level I had grown up in! I don't think anyone could have explained it to me, either. I had to experience it. I had to eat ramen and whatever I could eat for free at work to understand why I needed college...or a plan of some sort. Sometimes I think it just takes some people (me :001_smile:) a lot of time, trial and error, mistakes, and work to understand what a life's journey entails. Sounds like your daughter is the same way. Maybe she needs to understand that it will be close to impossible for her to have the comfy life she has at home while making the money she is currently earning. Some sort of training would be smart while she figures out whether or not she will seek a college degree?

[Chris in VA]

She seems to be looking at apartments--of course, those around here are going to cost upwards of 1K, too.

I'm talking about a room in someone's home.

I agree she's financially dependent--and if she's spending money on things like her sister's manicures, then perhaps she doesn't have that good an idea of how to manage her $. Manicures and those kinds of gifts are luxuries. They are for when you have enough $ to pay necessities, like food and rent.

 

Maybe another idea would be to sit with her and make up a budget, including rent (for a room) and a food allowance. Have her factor in EVERYTHING. Show her what she needs to make--it will be an eye-opener. I would advise her to not move into her boyfriend's until she can make it on her own w/o him, so she doesn't become financially dependent on HIM. If she is, then it's harder to leave if it doesn't work out. (I'm really of the mindset that no one should live with their intended, only their spouse, but you gotta go with what's in front of you...:D)

 

I know the idea of living "with strangers" in a room seems unattractive, but it is what adults who don't earn enough to live in an apt by themselves and don't want to find their own roommate to rent with need to do. There ARE roommate matching services, and they are pretty reliable, but she could also look at work or at any voluteer/community organizations she is in (I'd say church, but IIRC that isn't in the picture--could be wrong of course!).

 

But it seems you've gotten a little beaten up in this thread--I'm sorry if I added to it. I just wanted to be clear.

[Night Elf]

I agree she's financially dependent--and if she's spending money on things like her sister's manicures, then perhaps she doesn't have that good an idea of how to manage her $. Manicures and those kinds of gifts are luxuries. They are for when you have enough $ to pay necessities, like food and rent.

 

It was $15 and they have only gone 2 times 3 months apart. I thought it was sweet! She's bonding with her sister.

 

But it seems you've gotten a little beaten up in this thread--I'm sorry if I added to it. I just wanted to be clear.

 

No, I'm okay. I hear what people are saying, I'm just having a really hard time thinking the same way. Like the manicure thing, for example. $15 seems like such a small amount when you need a pick me up.

 

And to be honest, I can't even begin to fathom her living in someone else's house. That's just plain weird to me. I will mention it to her though. Where does one find an opportunity like that? In the newspaper? Is it bad of me to think that just screams of being unsafe? I've never heard of a company that finds roommates. How would I find that in my area?

[Dustybug]

If she really is saving, this wouldn't help, but I've heard of famines that require rent for adult children but put it into a savings account for when the child moves out. They're learning responsibility/budgeting, but still saving for the future.

 

I haven't read all of the responses, but the above is what DH and I have discussed doing with our children. We are okay with them living with us until they are married as long as they are either gainfully employed or in school.

[Anne in CA]

I just wanted to say that I do get that it sounds like your dd is not irresponsible, but she is not financially independent. I would love it if my 24yo would work two jobs, but she has only worked part time since she dropped out of school. She is back in college now, but she is going to Bible college and it is very expensive and she is not working more than 10 hours a week. AGGGHHH. When she complains about having no money I nearly bite a hole in my lip.

 

For what it's worth I do agree with the people who said young people are not maturing as quickly today as in previous generations. I do know some young people who are much more mature than others, but the only truly mature young people I know, who take nothing from their parents and work full time, were home schooled. My 24yo was home schooled for 4 years, but she attended ps high school. None of her friends from ps who are her age are living alone or with room mates, they all live with their parents and none of them can keep a job. She had two home schooled friends who own their own businesses and are completely financially independent of their parents. Of course, they graduated from college early and got an early start so it isn't fair to compare.

[Chris in VA]

It was $15 and they have only gone 2 times 3 months apart. I thought it was sweet! She's bonding with her sister.

 

 

 

No, I'm okay. I hear what people are saying, I'm just having a really hard time thinking the same way. Like the manicure thing, for example. $15 seems like such a small amount when you need a pick me up.

 

And to be honest, I can't even begin to fathom her living in someone else's house. That's just plain weird to me. I will mention it to her though. Where does one find an opportunity like that? In the newspaper? Is it bad of me to think that just screams of being unsafe? I've never heard of a company that finds roommates. How would I find that in my area?

 

There's craigslist, but for a young woman, I'd want to REALLY BE CAREFUL!!!

I think the best way to find a roomie is thru people you know, but second best could be thru advertising at a college or community college. They have off-campus roommate matching services.

 

And the manicure comment (which I did feel a little uncomfortable making, frankly!) was just to illustrate that she needs to understand what's a necessity and what's a luxury, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone a little "fun money." In fact, it's actually a great idea (from an accountant friend) to have some $ set aside for fun, so that one doesn't feel burdened all the time re $. OTOH, I do think maybe in making a budget and putting aside $ for rent/food, even if it isn't spent, will make it easier to be realistic about what is ok to spend (even on fun) and what isn't. $15 doesn't sound like much, but if it's a high percentage of your income, it is.

[Delighted3]

My 21yo dd lives at home. She has an associates degree. She has a job. She pays for her own cell phone and car expenses. She sometimes buys a few groceries. She does not pay rent. She has chores just like everyone else and she does them. I expect her to be respectful. I do not expect her to ask permission to do things, but I do expect her to give us some idea where she is and when she will be home.

I do not consider her to be independent, but I am not bothered about it. I would rather she lived at home in these circumstances than live with a stranger. If she didn't do her part or was obnoxious to live with, then I might think differently.

JMO,

Joy

[Tarreymere]

I have six adult kids and stepkids. They were all working and paying for their own personal items, clothing, ect. by the age of eighteen. None of them really knew what they wanted to do for work as an adult, none of the wanted to commit to college at that point, none of them could live independently on the income they earned.

 

We gave each one fair warning and then began to charge each a minimal rent (more to cover the thirty minute showers and what-not each seemed to feel entitled to as an 'adult'). We also gave each one a deadline at that time, a deadline to move out. We went over budgeting, saving, the cost of living in our area (not exactly high), and what could be expected in terms of quality of life when one earns only the income from a part-time minimum wage job. We explained how it is just a fact of life that people who work part-time for minimum wage just can't afford hundred dollar sneakers, even if they have sore feet at the end of the work shift and other information that seemed relevant.

 

Only two of them actually saved anything and that was only a few hundred dollars. Barely enough to cover a security deposit and first month's rent. Those two got apartments, the other four 'crashed' with sympathetic friends. One of the ones who got an apartment was horrified to find out she was expected to pay for trash and water, another was stunned to find out he needed to make a deposit for electricity (we only brought it up a mere million times or so). Ramen noodles became a luxury item. There was some, um, discomfort.

 

It took an average of about a little over two years, but all six kids 'figured it out' finally. They didn't all go to college (one did), a couple got some job training, one joined the military, but they all found ways that were acceptable to them to increase their income in their own personal situations, and to increase it to the point that they were able to support themselves independently in a lifestyle they found acceptable. A couple started very small businesses that required a good amount of effort, and were fairly successful in that they made a little money from it. Now two are homeowners (no help from us).

 

So, for our kids it took a good two years of discomfort, of feeling some pretty strong basic motivation to do enough soul-searching, to make a more determined effort to find some way to earn enough money to live in a way that each one felt was more acceptable to him or her in the long term. We wouldn't have let any of them starve, but I think that if we hadn't insisted we would probably have at least most of them still living with us. And that isn't what we wanted for any of them.

[Jungle Mama]

I haven't asked for rent because she saves money. She's actually better with money than I am. Besides, I feel really weird about asking her to pay rent. This has always been her home and I just plain don't agree with the concept. I do understand the argument that paying rent makes a person responsible but I think she's already very responsible. I just can't get past the whole idea that family helps not hinders.

We have made a rule here that when the tax man starts taking money from their income they have to start paying a third of their income to us as rent and board. 1/3 is about the standard for those sort of fixed expenses in the real world.

 

For our kids right now the 13 year old earns $30/week dropping junk mail and he gets to keep 2/3. 1/3 goes in the bank for when he is older for a house deposit. When he starts earning enough to pay tax then he will pay us board 1/3, save 1/3 (should be easy if he is at home) and then have 1/3 for his own. Tax in Australia starts when you earn over $18,000 or so in a year.

 

Just something to consider.

 

Best wishes

Jen in Oz

[Rosie_0801]

I think people should have stopped blaming their parents for their life by age 21 at the latest, barring serious issues like abuse or other nasties. It is most definitely not your mum's fault if you are approaching 30, or worse, 50. :glare:

 

Rosie

[Katy]

There's not a magic age, especially in this economy.

 

If I were you, I would apologize for pushing school on her when she clearly doesn't want to go. Then I would have a discussion on finding her passions, preferably ones that lead to a higher income.

 

In fact, perhaps it could be an income-backwards equation:

 

How much money would you need to have the lifestyle you want?

What jobs that you would enjoy would earn that much money?

What kind of training do you need to get that job?

 

There are a few jobs that don't need much school that would lead to her having the sort of independence she wants, but she needs to do all the paperwork herself.

 

The quickest route to complete independence is probably the military; but that's not a great option for every kid. If she is interested in enlisting, push her towards the Air Force.

[wonderchica]

For what it's worth I do agree with the people who said young people are not maturing as quickly today as in previous generations. I do know some young people who are much more mature than others, but the only truly mature young people I know, who take nothing from their parents and work full time, were home schooled. My 24yo was home schooled for 4 years, but she attended ps high school. None of her friends from ps who are her age are living alone or with room mates, they all live with their parents and none of them can keep a job. She had two home schooled friends who own their own businesses and are completely financially independent of their parents. Of course, they graduated from college early and got an early start so it isn't fair to compare.

I'd say this is relative to your area and the people you know. I'm 25, went to public school and can't think of a single person my age who still lives with their parents. These are not all college educated people, either. Most people I know my age are married or live with a roomate. Some live alone. I don't know of anyone who "can't keep a job", certainly not because of their own doing (the economy makes things a little different).

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: On the rent front, consider it. She could pay you x$ and you could save it for college or life later. This is our to be our policy here for adults living here after 18 unless they are in school.

 

 

Yeah, I can see that I probably shouldn't have done the paperwork for her. I just know that she gets scared and puts things off and then jumps in with both feet. There isn't anything else I do for her. I just wanted this to be an option for the fall. I dropped it all about 3 weeks ago and left the ball in her court. I guess if she changes her mind for next semester she can call the school and ask if they can pull her incomplete file and let her continue with it.

 

I haven't asked for rent because she saves money. She's actually better with money than I am. Besides, I feel really weird about asking her to pay rent. This has always been her home and I just plain don't agree with the concept. I do understand the argument that paying rent makes a person responsible but I think she's already very responsible. I just can't get past the whole idea that family helps not hinders.